Texas Rangers' Bullpen

[kepdawg]

Cordero just blew a save by giving up a game tieing 3 run homer! Going to the bottom of the 9th Texas and Tampa Bay are tied 5-5. Maybe Tom Hicks can get Roger Clemens to be the closer!

[RMAC]

K...I'm not buying the "Cordero had a bad day" crap anymore!!! I just might have to kill the guy...better not let that word get out! ;)

[kepdawg]

At least the Rangers were able to win it in the bottom of the 9th!

[RMAC]

Thanks to a SS error (he jumped off 2nd base before catching the ball and Laird was ruled safe)...Michael Young hits a ground ball up the box and Gerald Laird comes around from 2nd to win the game

Texas 6
Tampa Bay 5

Hello Win Column!!! The Rangers are tied for 1st place!!! :D :D :D

[kepdawg]

Stupid MLB rules. Cordero blows the save, goes and sits down, and then the hitters get him the win!

[Keith7]

Its not the Rangers bullpen that has a problem, just Cordero..

[Whsdogs]

Originally posted by Keith7
Its not the Rangers bullpen that has a problem, just Cordero..

Cordero is one of the best closers in the bigs..just hasnt done so hott just yet but i guarantee you he will come aroud

for the rest of the bullpen..its actually lookin awesome this year (for the most part lol) and michael young is pretty much the best ss and most pure baseball player in the league

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Cordero is just not throwing it where he wants it at a consistant pace, but he better get it going quick before hes demoted to setup reliever.

[Whsdogs]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
Cordero is just not throwing it where he wants it at a consistant pace, but he better get it going quick before hes demoted to setup reliever.

hey then he could be one of the best set up men in the game haha

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Whsdogs
Cordero is one of the best closers in the bigs..just hasnt done so hott just yet but i guarantee you he will come aroud

for the rest of the bullpen..its actually lookin awesome this year (for the most part lol) and michael young is pretty much the best ss and most pure baseball player in the league

Cordero WAS one of the best closers in the game. What many people fail to acknowledge is that the closer position is WAY overrated! Additionally, most closers are WAY overpaid (i.e. BJ Ryan). For those of you that may have read "Moneyball" about the way that Billy Beane manages the A's, the case that he states for how much a closer is overvalued is better than any of his other tactices that he employs in running the organization. Look at the closers that have come out of the A's in recent memory...

Jason Isringhausen
Billy Koch
Keith Foulke
Huston Street

All of these closers had phenomenal stats during their time with the A's but once they left (obviously Street is still with Oakland) for the big $$ contracts...they have become mediocore at best. Heck Izzy is the only one that is still closing games with the Cardinals as Koch was out of the game after 2004 and Foulke has been relegated to middle reliever after being the Red Sox shaky closer during their World Series run of 2004. Beane's strategy is to find a pitcher with some success that he can sign for a relatively inexpensive price, allow them to close games for his team for a few years, and then trade them away for prospects and/or another closer. Long and short, unless you pick up a Rolly Fingers or a Mariano Rivera (they do come along every so often) then you must realize that your closer must be able to get the job done but don't be afraid to part with them because there is always somebody else that can get the job done.

[GreenMonster]

What I've often wondered is why MLB teams bother to have Starters and Relievers. Why not have an entire roster of relievers. No one goes more than 3 innings and no one pitches 2 days in a row. Everyone is available to start and everyone is available to relieve. There are a ton of mid-level pitchers out there that could thrive in a system like this. Plus, from a management view, you could stock up on low to mid priced pitchers and still be very successful.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

all those relievers left cause they werent getting the job done and Koch they trade for him from Toronto. A's problem is they dont have a closer that can get it done like the Yankees or Angels. Streets is like Cordero very hitable if they mess their spots

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
all those relievers left cause they werent getting the job done and Koch they trade for him from Toronto. A's problem is they dont have a closer that can get it done like the Yankees or Angels.

Dude...put down the crackpipe!!! :smoker:

Isringhausen...he was 78 of 91 over a 3 year period with an ERA of 2.96 from 1999-2001. He has still been fairly effective in St Louis but continues to be injured and is not available as a full time closer for the Cardinals. He was an all-star in his 1st full season as a closer in 2000.

Koch...in his 1 year in Oakland (2002) he had a career high 44 saves in 50 save opportunities with an ERA of 3.27. In 2003 with the White Sox, he had 11 saves with a 5.77 ERA and in 2004 8 saves with a 5.40 ERA. He was a middle reliever for the Marlins in 2004 before being released. He was also named to the all-star team.

Foulke...In his 1 season in Oakland (2003) he had a career high 43 saves to go along with 9 wins and a career best ERA of 2.08. He was the primary closer in Boston in 2004 converting 32 or 39 saves but was only a part-time closer in 2005 and is now a middle reliever 2006. He too was named to the all-star team.


Streets is like Cordero very hitable if they mess their spots

All 3 of these guys have had better seasons in Oakland than anywhere else. Huston Street has 27 saves in 32 opps so far in his career and an ERA of 2.14. I'm glad you made this genius statement though because you can say this about ANY pitcher! heck go look at the start that Mariano Rivera had last season. He blew 2 saves in a row against Boston and was VERY hittable for the first 2 months of the season.

Try doing a little research before running your mouth next time...it may help you out! :thumbsup:

[SintonFan_inAustin]

:rolleyes: I believe its been the A's ballpark and their defense that has something to do with them having a good season in Oakland than the pitching coach having something to do with it. They constantly have good starting pitching and its the ballpark having all that foul room where the hitters dont get a second chance to get a better pitch:eek:

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
:rolleyes: I believe its been the A's ballpark and their defense that has something to do with them having a good season in Oakland than the pitching coach having something to do with it. They constantly have good starting pitching and its the ballpark having all that foul room where the hitters dont get a second chance to get a better pitch:eek:

So are you now saying that they in fact DID have better results in Oakland and that they were in fact getting the job done? Don't back track on me now! ;)

[SintonFan_inAustin]

yes they did but u saying they left for bigger bucks and had bad years after that. The A's ballpark had something to do with it and the A's still paid big bucks to replace them or traded for a closer to replace them they didnt have somebody from their farm system come up. Now there starters most of them are from there farm system

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by SintonFan_inAustin
yes they did but u saying they left for bigger bucks and had bad years after that. The A's ballpark had something to do with it and the A's still paid big bucks to replace them or traded for a closer to replace them they didnt have somebody from their farm system come up. Now there starters most of them are from there farm system

1. Their best production was in Oakland. You have to pitch in the environment around you. Regardless of the dimensions of the field, if you don't pitch effectively you won't win ballgames. yes their ballpark is more "pitcher friendly" than others...but it's not the main reason for their success. It was their ability to throw strikes and get hitters out. You don't believe me??? Look at Barry Zito. The guy has gone from being a Cy Young caliber pitcher to now being a run of the mill #2 or #3 that will have spots of brilliance. Oh and by the way...he's still pitching for the Athletics!

2. What does their farm system have to do with it? You totally missed the point that I was making. Billy Beane's theory is that you DON'T develop closers because it's not worth it. It's an overpaid position for the amount of time that the guy actually spends pitching. A relief pitchers job (regardless of when they enter the game) is to be a short-term "stop gap" pitcher. You don't need them to dominate the other team for 6-7 innings. You need them to get in the game and get somewhere between 1-6 outs. You can find A LOT of guys that can do this...you don't develop this kind of pitching. You develop starting pitching that is going to allow your team to be competitive in a ball game and give you your best chance to win. The relief pitcher is just an afterthought, a 2nd rate player, that is only needed with the starting pitcher is having a bad outing. This is why the A's (and just about every other team) develop starters and sign relievers. Relief pitchers are the guys who get tossed into big trades between organizations. They are the aftermarket parts that you buy instead of going out and buying the factory built replacement part. You do this because it saves you money!

3. Let's take a look at their salary history. Again...you will see that the A's got MUCH better value out of their pitchers than did any of these other teams...not to mention that their production while in Oakland was better than it was after they left!

Keith Foulke's Salary History
2003 - $4 mil w/ A's
2004 - $6 mil w/ Red Sox
2005 - $7.5 mil w/ Red Sox

Avg Salary w/ A's = $4 mil
Avg Salary after A's = $6.75 mil

Keith Foulke's Salary increased by 168% after leaving the A's.

Billy Koch's Salary History
2002 - $2.4 mil w/ A's
2003 - $4.25 mil w/ White Sox
2004 - $5.25 mil (est) w/ White Sox
2005 - $6.375 mil w/ Marlins

Avg Salary w/ A's = $2.4 mil
Avg Salary after A's = $5.3 mil

Billy Koch's Salary increased by 221% after leaving the A's.

Jason Isringhausen's Salary History
1999 - $475k w/ A's
2000 - $825k w/ A's
2001 - $3.3 mil w/ A's
2002 - $2.75 mil w/ Cardinals
2003 - $7.25 mil w/ Cardinals
2004 - $7.25 mil w/ Cardinals
2005 - $8.25 mil w/ Cardinals

Avg Salary w/ A's = $1.53 mil
Avg Salary after A's = $6.375 mil

Jason Isringhausen's Salary increased by 417% after leaving the A's.

Keep trying though...maybe eventually you will find some proof in your theory and be able to back it up. However, with the way that Billy Beane has managed the Oakland A's...good luck! There is no better GM in major league baseball than Billy Beane.