Could someone please explain

[PPHSfan]

Just exactly why everyone is so against "ilegal immigrants". Tell me exactly how a person crossing the river from Mexico in search of hard labor has a negative effect on YOUR family.

[3afan]

i got no problem with it ...

[raider red 2000]

me niether

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by 3afan
i got no problem with it ...

Me neither.

[Cameron Crazy]

Great workers to

[JasperDog94]

First of all because it is against the law. If breaking this law is okay, then who gets to decide what other laws it's okay to break?

[TexDad]

Maybe cause they don't PAY TAXES like the rest of us!!

[raider red 2000]

the person breaking the law....must decide if ti is worth it.

if you speed and get caught...was it worth it?

if you drink under age...was it worth it?

[PPHSfan]

Originally posted by TexDad
Maybe cause they don't PAY TAXES like the rest of us!!

Well first of all, If they are not paying taxes, then it is the fault of the person that hires them. In case you are not aware, there are thousands of "legal" citizens in this country that don't pay their taxes, so don't use words like "the rest of us". Furthermore, if they DO work for someone who asks for a SS number, and they turn in a phony one. Guess what Einstein? They pay into the system and never take out of it. That is called a surplus. Now tell me how they effect YOUR family.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by TexDad
Maybe cause they don't PAY TAXES like the rest of us!!

do you think that when they goto the store that they dont pay taxes?

the candy bar says $.99 so i am only payin .$99. i dont pay taxes...I AM ILLEGAL.

life dosnt work that way.

[GUNHO]

And those who are doing it right legally are being jumped ahead of by those who don't give a rats about the law.

[UPanIN]

I think my biggest problem is that our country has laws that govern how a person comes into this great nation to stay. I have no problem with a person trying to better themselfs and their family.

The word "illegal" means it's a crime in this country to cross the border the way some 11 million have.

I'm not going to start on the burdon it puts on the people of this country (tax wise).

What about the people that are trying to come here the correct way. What message are we sending them and our on kids.

It's okay to cheat the system if all you want to do is HARD work.

I want to work HARD and support my family. I guess the IRS wont mind if I don't file my taxes this year or ever. Maybe I'll go to Mexico and get a job. No wait... they want let me in. They have laws about that. But I wont have a negative effect on anyone's family.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :hand: :hand: :hand:

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Just exactly why everyone is so against "ilegal immigrants". Tell me exactly how a person crossing the river from Mexico in search of hard labor has a negative effect on YOUR family.

PPHSFan....the problem is bigger, and growing every year, than just illegal Mexican immigration. Many of these "illegals" are of Central and South American origin, as well as other nationalities such as Iranian and Iraqi. The majority of the illegal immigrants are Mexican, but in short, if Mexicans can cross into our country at will---anybody else can, also. This raises serious security issues at any of our nation's borders---north or south. For many years, the threat of "open" borders was not a problem to our country, but now thanks to the rise of the availability of high technology for creation of WMD's and like devices and those who would use them---we have to take another look at the "openness" of our borders.

[Gobbler Fan]

I have no problem with it , heck most of the job's they do none of us would want anyway . If I have a gripe it's paying for someone who can work not work because they can and let's the goverment (us with our taxes) pay for everything they get i.e. health care-food-clothing-housing ect. I have no problem helping out the people that really need it but seriously how many do this just because they dont have to work and here we are griping about people that WANT to work ? I have an idea lets send the people that dont want to work over to Mexico and let the ones that do want to work come on over we could kill 2 birds with one stone .

[gato 76]

Originally posted by TexDad
Maybe cause they don't PAY TAXES like the rest of us!!


Some of them do pay taxes and are very hard working conservative people,but most of them are scared to come forward and do it legal for fear of being sent back.Maybe if the people hiring them gave them benfits health care they would not be a drain on social programs,but you and i know they thats not going to happen no benefits let then do the work for almost nothing.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by UPanIN
.I want to work HARD and support my family. I guess the IRS wont mind if I don't file my taxes this year or ever. Maybe I'll go to Mexico and get a job. No wait... they want let me in. They have laws about that. But I wont have a negative effect on anyone's family.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :hand: :hand: :hand:

It's interesting that if you go to the southern Mexican borders you will find guards posted in very close proximity to keep from Guatamala out of their country but you don't see anybody guarding their northern border to keep people from leaving their country. Just something to think about...

[PPHSfan]

I still have not heard anyone tell me how it effects THEIR family.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Just exactly why everyone is so against "ilegal immigrants". Tell me exactly how a person crossing the river from Mexico in search of hard labor has a negative effect on YOUR family. It also effects MY family because my taxes are going up because of the overpopulation of our schools. Especially those that don't speak a lick of english. Now we have to hire ESL teachers and have more social programs to help them out even though they don't qualify leagally.

Don't even get me started on the burden it has put on our emergency rooms. Ever been to one lately?

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I still have not heard anyone tell me how it effects THEIR family.

Why does it matter how it does/doesn't effect my family? Are you trying to say that if it doesn't directly effect my family then I have no right to voice an opinion in opposition of the issue? Why can I not express my thoughts on a subject even if I am not directly impacted by it? If I am gathering the facts and using them to analyze the situation, then I am perfectly entitled to express my thoughts on the subject. Heck, most people will tell you what they think even without knowing any of the facts.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Don't even get me started on the burden it has put on our emergency rooms. Ever been to one lately?

This is a side of the issue that is often overlooked. Take a trip down to South Texas and stop by an ER and notice how many illegals come into our country just for having their child born in America...and now they have an American "citizen" in their family because of a technicality. Obviously it's not always a technicality as the girl that I off and on date was born in Tennessee to two British-born parents...but the difference is that they came here legally!

Why not just have INS there waiting to seperate the mother and child after birth since the mother is here illegal while the child is an American citizen. That would make for some fun debates! ;)

[raider red 2000]

since it seems like most people that are complaining about the illegals are complaining about money...basically.

after we get rid of the illegals, can we get rid of the old people too????

they are sucking from social security.
They fill the emergency rooms.
they complain about not being treated fairly.
cant drive.

who is next....lets put all of the retards in a room and kill em too.

lets not discriminate...if you arent productive and paying taxes then sorry.

BTW i gotta go to church this week...i hope i see yall there.

[Bulldog_12]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
PPHSFan....the problem is bigger, and growing every year, than just illegal Mexican immigration. Many of these "illegals" are of Central and South American origin, as well as other nationalities such as Iranian and Iraqi. The majority of the illegal immigrants are Mexican, but in short, if Mexicans can cross into our country at will---anybody else can, also. This raises serious security issues at any of our nation's borders---north or south. For many years, the threat of "open" borders was not a problem to our country, but now thanks to the rise of the availability of high technology for creation of WMD's and like devices and those who would use them---we have to take another look at the "openness" of our borders.

I agree with Bull. And it may not affect my family now, but if somebody brings in a bomb or any other WMD, it could affect my family as well as many others. That is my biggest reasoning for keeping the borders protected by any means possible.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
since it seems like most people that are complaining about the illegals are complaining about money...basically.

after we get rid of the illegals, can we get rid of the old people too????

they are sucking from social security.
They fill the emergency rooms.
they complain about not being treated fairly.
cant drive.

who is next....lets put all of the retards in a room and kill em too.

lets not discriminate...if you arent productive and paying taxes then sorry.

BTW i gotta go to church this week...i hope i see yall there. This has got to be nominated for the most assinine post of the year. Give me a break.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[raider red 2000]

thanks

[whtfbplaya]

Originally posted by 3afan
i got no problem with it ...

me neither

[JasperDog94]

You're comparing people who don't respect the laws or severignty (sp?) of this country to our elderly who have worked, raised kids, and possibly fought for our country. That's pretty low.

[piratebg]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
This is a side of the issue that is often overlooked. Take a trip down to South Texas and stop by an ER and notice how many illegals come into our country just for having their child born in America...and now they have an American "citizen" in their family because of a technicality. Obviously it's not always a technicality as the girl that I off and on date was born in Tennessee to two British-born parents...but the difference is that they came here legally!

Why not just have INS there waiting to seperate the mother and child after birth since the mother is here illegal while the child is an American citizen. That would make for some fun debates! ;)


Not only that, but when you try to pull them over they don't exacty stop all of the time. Foot/car chases are growing and the majority of them are illegals. A lot of them are suffering injuries sustained from accidents and trying anything to escape. They have to be treated for their inuries, but who pays the bill? In Refugio not too long back they actually opened fire on officers. As mentioned earlier, not all of these people are Mexicans. You have drug dealers and gang members(MS-13) who are not very friendly people at all. These guys are killers.

[Bulldog_12]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
You're comparing people who don't respect the laws or severignty (sp?) of this country to our elderly who have worked, raised kids, and possibly fought for our country. That's pretty low.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

see ya in church raider

[JasperDog94]

I love people as much as the next guy. Possibly even more. But didn't Jesus talk about repecting the rule of law? "Give unto Caesar what is Caesars"

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by GUNHO
And those who are doing it right legally are being jumped ahead of by those who don't give a rats about the law.

I have a friend from Cuba who married an American citizen....she has been trying to get her citizenship for 17 years....17 years!!!!! That is ridiculous! About 3 years ago, she finally gave up....she said the years of red tape just wasn't worth it.

If that's how it is with ALL immigrants, I almost can't blame them.

Now that being said....just because it doesnt' have a negative affect on MY family doesn't mean I have to support it.

The fact that Jane and Jessica , or John and Jacob want to get married to each other doesn't affect MY family....but I still don't agree with it.

The fact that Joe Blow is standing down there on a corner selling crack cocaine to 9 and 10 year old kids doesn't affect MY family....but I still don't agree with it.

and so on and so on!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I have a friend from Cuba who married an American citizen....she has been trying to get her citizenship for 17 years....17 years!!!!! That is ridiculous! About 3 years ago, she finally gave up....she said the years of red tape just wasn't worth it.

If that's how it is with ALL immigrants, I almost can't blame them.

Now that being said....just because it doesnt' have a negative affect on MY family doesn't mean I have to support it.

The fact that Jane and Jessica , or John and Jacob want to get married to each other doesn't affect MY family....but I still don't agree with it.

The fact that Joe Blow is standing down there on a corner selling crack cocaine to 9 and 10 year old kids doesn't affect MY family....but I still don't agree with it.

and so on and so on!! Word.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Now that being said....just because it doesnt' have a negative affect on MY family doesn't mean I have to support it.

The fact that Jane and Jessica , or John and Jacob want to get married to each other doesn't affect MY family....but I still don't agree with it.

The fact that Joe Blow is standing down there on a corner selling crack cocaine to 9 and 10 year old kids doesn't affect MY family....but I still don't agree with it.

and so on and so on!!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :kiss:

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
You're comparing people who don't respect the laws or severignty (sp?) of this country to our elderly who have worked, raised kids, and possibly fought for our country. That's pretty low.

yes it is pretty low.

some have contributed...some havnt.

it is extreme and i am sure most of yall think that i am a jerk.

sorry some people are so quick to point fingers and say look at that problem and not look at similar problems in the same light.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
yes it is pretty low.

some have contributed...some havnt.

it is extreme and i am sure most of yall think that i am a jerk.

sorry some people are so quick to point fingers and say look at that problem and not look at similar problems in the same light. We're talking about illegal immigration on this thread. We're not trying to solve all the world's problems here. Try to keep up.;) :kiss:

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
We're talking about illegal immigration on this thread. We're not trying to solve all the world's problems here. Try to keep up.;) :kiss:

personally in my life in my family illegals have done more good for me than bad.

[STANG RED]

I have mixed feelings about this topic, because I can see merit to both points of veiw. But I know one thing for sure, If I were misfortunate enough to have been born in that hell hole of a country, I would be doing any and everything I could to get here as fast as I could, legal or not.
But, I'd also be doing everything I could to learn the language, get educated, and becoming a vital part of this society. And, I have no problem with the ones that are doing that.

[SintonFan]

*We pay higher medical bills because of illegals abuse our healthcare system and for the most part don't pay for what they receive. Hospitals pass on the cost to us in higher prices.
*We don't fully get our fair share of social security because many illegals collect when they shouldn't and drain the system.
*Many illegals receive food stamps when it should be used for our own citizens first or at the very least the cost of the program would greatly diminish.
*We spend great amounts of money hosting illegals in our prisons instead of deporting them soon after conviction.
*We pay more in property taxes because of illegals' kids who go to our "free" public schools, they often don't pay what should be payed in to the property tax system
.
I could go on and on and on...
.
Basically look at the illegal problem like this:
Would you gladly invite a complete stranger to stay at your house, eat some of your food, take some of your money and receive health-care under your name? I'd say most of us wouldn't like that at all. Well, it's happening because that house I spoke of really is our great nation. The only one who is entitled to OUR benefits WE worked for should be for us and us alone. Do you know how much smaller our budget deficit would be if we just took care of ourselves. Sounds heartless but I am so tired of those who bleed for everyone and everything.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Do you know how much smaller our budget deficit would be if we just took care of ourselves. Sounds heartless but I am so tired of those who bleed for everyone and everything.

+1

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
Well first of all, If they are not paying taxes, then it is the fault of the person that hires them....
That's the same rationale that says if you get hit by a car, you shouldn't have been in that crosswalk in the first place.

There is some blame to lay on the employers, but there is more on the ones who take advantage of the system. I grew up in an area that is almost 2/3 Hispanic, so I probably got to see a whole lot more of it than most. There are many that will come over here, have a couple of kids here, then live off the money the government gives their kids. Happened quite a bit in my hometown and the towns surrounding it.

If we didn't exhaust so much of our resources on this I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. But to say that America is these people's best chance at bettering their lives is unheard of. I've been deep into Mexico and I know that there's plenty of opportunities in Monterrey, Mexico City, etc.... and it's not illegal.

I've said it before... I have no problem with the guy who comes to America and makes $6 who works 80 hours a week with no overtime just to put food on his family's table. As a matter of fact, I have no problem seeing those guys move up the food chain and making something of themselves... my future wife's uncle did that and now has a great family and makes a great living in the construction business. Furthermore, he's since received his green card after 14 YEARS OF WAITING. That's why we're against the whole amnesty clause.

But while we're talking about those good guys, we have to talk about the ones who bring the problems with them. That's what we're trying to avoid. I grew up in an area that's almost 2/3 Hispanic, so I saw it quite a bit. My girl's family has all come over to America within the past 30 years, most of them illegally. While I can say that for the most part they're stand up people, the communities in which they live (in Midland and El Paso) are mostly areas where illegals live. We've both seen it first hand.

So for anyone who says that this is a herding by a bunch of racists, well my girl is 1/2 Mexican and she's just as much for reform as I am. So is her mother, who was born and raised in Juarez.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
personally in my life in my family illegals have done more good for me than bad. I'm glad that you have had good experiences in your family, but this isn't about doing more good than bad. This is about the rule of law. If you don't like the law (most of us despise the way the immigration process works) then contact your federal representatives and tell them that you want it changed. Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean that you should just subvert it.

[raider red 2000]

[i]Do you know how much smaller our budget deficit would be if we just took care of ourselves. Sounds heartless but I am so tired of those who bleed for everyone and everything. [/B]

you have your beliefes and i have mine.

you are right if we are looking at humans like dollars and cents on a spreadsheet.

they are not the biggest drain on the economy.


I am glad that you are sick of people who bleed for everything. maybe some of us are sick of people who say i goto church and i follow the rules, but at the end of the day, all that matters is if once can live with themself for not caring about another human being.

these sometimes are the same people that preach how wrong abortion is and yet complain about the people on welfare.

it is hard to have it both ways.

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I still have not heard anyone tell me how it effects THEIR family.

Illegal Immigration is like Hurricane Katrina brewing in the Gulf. It's my obligation as a father to protect my family from the destruction.

1) Financially - There is a financial burden that we all pay to provide services for illegal immigrants.

2) Socially - We've evolved as a country to treat people fairly and not discriminate against others based on race. That feeling is not reciprocated by some groups that favor illegal immigration. "La Raza" - "the race" comes to mind. I think if a group labels itself "the race" it might be a racist group.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I'm glad that you have had good experiences in your family, but this isn't about doing more good than bad. This is about the rule of law. If you don't like the law (most of us despise the way the immigration process works) then contact your federal representatives and tell them that you want it changed. Just because you don't like a law doesn't mean that you should just subvert it.

i was asked in the post how it has effected my family.

lots of people break the laws...i am sure that both you and i have both broken some law in the past 7 days. it may have only been speeding, but it is still the law.

I try to teach my kids that there are consequences for all actions....some good and some bad....one must be willing to live with the consequences of the action.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
you have your beliefes and i have mine.

you are right if we are looking at humans like dollars and cents on a spreadsheet.

they are not the biggest drain on the economy.


I am glad that you are sick of people who bleed for everything. maybe some of us are sick of people who say i goto church and i follow the rules, but at the end of the day, all that matters is if once can live with themself for not caring about another human being.

these sometimes are the same people that preach how wrong abortion is and yet complain about the people on welfare.

it is hard to have it both ways. Once again, Jesus said "Give unto Caesar what is Caesars". Don't get all "Holier Than Thou" on us and imply that we're hypocrits.

Do you or do you not think that people should obey the law?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
I try to teach my kids that there are consequences for all actions....some good and some bad....one must be willing to live with the consequences of the action. Exactly. People that crossed the border illegally should be deported back to their country of origin because they broke the law.

[raider red 2000]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Once again, Jesus said "Give unto Caesar what is Caesars". Don't get all "Holier Than Thou" on us and imply that we're hypocrits.

Do you or do you not think that people should obey the law?

i think that people choose which laws they will follow. there will be a consequence.

i did not call you a hypocrit...although i did imply it ;)

jesus said lots of things, but i assure you Jesus wasnt looking at people as dollars and cents.

but i guess i am wrong....so be it...i gotta go.

i wish that we could actually solve problems in here....i am sure that we could do a better job than most in Austin and DC.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
i wish that we could actually solve problems in here....i am sure that we could do a better job than most in Austin and DC. Can't argue that point.

[Bullaholic]

PPHSFan has done it again......and we mere mortals are left but to gaze upon the contrails of divinity.........sigh.........:D

[JasperDog94]

Yep. All he does is stir then leave. Never backing anything up.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
Yep. All he does is stir then leave. Never backing anything up.

JDog....one has to learn to "appreciate" anybody who is a master at anything.

[PPHSfan]

I don't have anything to back up. I just asked for some examples. There are some good ones to BOTH sides so far. I personally think that the underlying hatred of ilegal aliens is more racially motivated than anyone cares to admit. But that is just MY opinion. I also don't have a problem with ANYONE wanting to come here and make a better life for themselves. The only reason the word ilegal is used is because the immigration laws are not the same as they were 500 years ago. I have looked at the lady in the harbor, and have not seen the words RSVP written anywhere.

I wonder is some of our ancestors got off the boat, then turned to the ones on the next one and shouted "Go home you foreign bastards."

[SWMustang]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I don't have anything to back up. I just asked for some examples. There are some good ones to BOTH sides so far. I personally think that the underlying hatred of ilegal aliens is more racially motivated than anyone cares to admit. But that is just MY opinion. I also don't have a problem with ANYONE wanting to come here and make a better life for themselves. The only reason the word ilegal is used is because the immigration laws are not the same as they were 500 years ago. I have looked at the lady in the harbor, and have not seen the words RSVP written anywhere.

I wonder is some of our ancestors got off the boat, then turned to the ones on the next one and shouted "Go home you foreign bastards."

I admitted some racial/social reasons why I oppose illegal immigration.

[UPanIN]

Originally posted by raider red 2000
i think that people choose which laws they will follow. there will be a consequence.

i did not call you a hypocrit...although i did imply it ;)

jesus said lots of things, but i assure you Jesus wasnt looking at people as dollars and cents.

but i guess i am wrong....so be it...i gotta go.

i wish that we could actually solve problems in here....i am sure that we could do a better job than most in Austin and DC.

I think when Jesus cast the money changers out of the temple these were people that were not obeying the law. Just a thought.

Ask our friends to the South to obey the law. All I ask.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I personally think that the underlying hatred of ilegal aliens is more racially motivated than anyone cares to admit. But that is just MY opinion. A cerain political party (not naming which one) would certainly have you believe that. I don't care what color you are. Obey the law of the land.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I still have not heard anyone tell me how it effects THEIR family.

I'll tell you how it affects my family. Judge William Justice declared that Texas has to educate their children if they are in this country. My local tax dollars fund our schools for the most part. They don't pay property taxes because they don't own any property. What money they do earn gets sent back to Mexico to assist their families still living there. Very little of it is spent putting money back into our economy. My federal tax money is spent on hiring Border Patrol agents to try to track them and catch them. My local and state tax money pays for law enforcement to investigate the thefts that occur because they can't afford to buy something legally. My rancher neighbors have to pay people to clean up their property after hordes of them move through and leave a debris trail. Our health system has to treat them for free if they get sick or injured because they have no insurance. A large number of them are carrying illegal drugs of some kind when they come across (Trust me on this one, one of my best friends is a Texas Ranger down here).

So, how does it affect MY family? By making everything we do more expensive and setting a BAD example for our young people, that's how.

[whtfbplaya]

Personally I hate Albertsons and people who buy 500$ worth of stuff at the grocery store and allways end up in line in front of me and then dont know how to use their food stamps.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I don't have anything to back up. I just asked for some examples. There are some good ones to BOTH sides so far. I personally think that the underlying hatred of ilegal aliens is more racially motivated than anyone cares to admit. But that is just MY opinion. I also don't have a problem with ANYONE wanting to come here and make a better life for themselves. The only reason the word ilegal is used is because the immigration laws are not the same as they were 500 years ago. I have looked at the lady in the harbor, and have not seen the words RSVP written anywhere.

I wonder is some of our ancestors got off the boat, then turned to the ones on the next one and shouted "Go home you foreign bastards."
i havent seen any racial motivation for wanting the government to enforce current laws. many hispanics in south texas cant stand illegals "cutting in line" and then taking advantage of our government programs and health care. back 500 years ago (even more recent), people didnt come to america to take advantage of government programs, public education and health care, etc. they came to assimilate and become americans, not hyphenated americans, but "Americans". things have changed, and it doesnt have to physically "hurt" my family for me to be against someone breaking the law.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by pirate44
...many hispanics in south texas cant stand illegals "cutting in line" and then taking advantage of our government programs and health care. back 500 years ago (even more recent), people didnt come to america to take advantage of government programs, public education and health care, etc.....
True that.

The first government assistance program wasn't introduced until 1935.

[loboes86]

Regardless of what folks think it costs our family's and affects all of us. Higher taxes because we're paying for people to have benifiets such as health care, retirment,food, housing,clothing,etc. The old folks that someone mentioned have been paying taxes and most have supported families with out ever asking for assistance from anyone. The old folks we're talking about, most fought in WW2 or Korea and have earned what our Gov. has to offer. By the way it hasn't been to long ago that they cut benifiets to our vets. We keep giving everyone else rights and taking from others. While I'm on this soapbox, Why do we keep bringing Jesus and Church into this? Wer'e not allowed to use them in goverment or in our schools anymore. I believe if their here legally or trying to be here legally and are helping support or nation with what it provides its people let them stay. It's time to start taking care of our own people you know the ones who can't aford health care but can't get it.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
PPHSFan....the problem is bigger, and growing every year, than just illegal Mexican immigration. Many of these "illegals" are of Central and South American origin, as well as other nationalities such as Iranian and Iraqi. The majority of the illegal immigrants are Mexican, but in short, if Mexicans can cross into our country at will---anybody else can, also. This raises serious security issues at any of our nation's borders---north or south. For many years, the threat of "open" borders was not a problem to our country, but now thanks to the rise of the availability of high technology for creation of WMD's and like devices and those who would use them---we have to take another look at the "openness" of our borders.

I agree. This goes in with the fact that they are illegal, come into our country and start making demands about healthcare and education for their children. What I have to say about it is that if they want to come here so bad, they can do what it takes to learn our language and stop trying to push us around. They take to our streets and start demanding things that they as illegals do not even deserve. Once they get their way with this, what else will they stop at?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I agree. This goes in with the fact that they are illegal, come into our country and start making demands about healthcare and education for their children. What I have to say about it is that if they want to come here so bad, they can do what it takes to learn our language and stop trying to push us around. They take to our streets and start demanding things that they as illegals do not even deserve. Once they get their way with this, what else will they stop at? :clap: :clap: :clap: Bravo!!! At the very least learn some English.

[District303aPastPlayer]

just a question... how did one, before the laws of the country were established by them, immigrate legally to the land known as America 500 years ago... Did they ask the Natives if they would grant them citizenship into their land and give them some of it? This country was founded upon illegally taking up residence in someone else's country, whether you like to look at it that way or not...

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
just a question... how did one, before the laws of the country were established by them, immigrate legally to the land known as America 500 years ago... Did they ask the Natives if they would grant them citizenship into their land and give them some of it? This country was founded upon illegally taking up residence in someone else's country, whether you like to look at it that way or not... True, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
True, but two wrongs don't make a right.

which goes back to my original post... follow geneology and if you arent a native of the land, theoretically, you are an illegal... doesn't look pretty that way...

[pirate44]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
which goes back to my original post... follow geneology and if you arent a native of the land, theoretically, you are an illegal... doesn't look pretty that way...
quit being so asinine:rolleyes:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
which goes back to my original post... follow geneology and if you arent a native of the land, theoretically, you are an illegal... doesn't look pretty that way... Actually, a large part of the country was purchased legally from the indians. That still doesn't excuse what happend to them.

BUT, the native americans never founded a country so to speak. It was just "you live over here and I'll live over there" between the tribes. No real system of government. It was still wrong, but at the time we had no real means of communication with them.

This is a completely different situation. You're comparing apples to oranges. If you want to punish people for what their ancestors did, then lock everyone in the world up, because everyone has criminals in their geneology.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
just a question... how did one, before the laws of the country were established by them, immigrate legally to the land known as America 500 years ago... Did they ask the Natives if they would grant them citizenship into their land and give them some of it? This country was founded upon illegally taking up residence in someone else's country, whether you like to look at it that way or not...

Up until the modern era, the advancement of a civilization was accomplished by conquest. Generally, a technolgically more advanced civilization conquered and absorbed a more primitive civilization. This may not be acceptable by our modern standards, but it did result in the advancement of the conquered civilization, in time. The United States did nothing different from the Romans, Conquistadores, and others throughout history in advancing their culture. It is unfortunate that conquest involved the loss of human life and the loss of another culture's indigenous existence.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
which goes back to my original post... follow geneology and if you arent a native of the land, theoretically, you are an illegal... doesn't look pretty that way...
.
Bah! That's a bunch of marlarcky.
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I have Indian roots too, so does my opinion count more? Does it count less?:thinking:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I personally think that the underlying hatred of ilegal aliens is more racially motivated than anyone cares to admit.
.
I don't see race as motivation in these arguments. I have no hatred to anyone here illegaly. These make for good arguments but many are afraid to speak out just because of some throwing out the whole "race card". Political correctness tends to stifle genuine debate as what it was intended to do.
.
Speaking of hatred. I hate that thousands of Canadians have taken many, many good paying nursing jobs because they can make several times more money here as nurses and pay less taxes.:p

[piratebg]

THOSE DAMN CANADIANS :p

[piratebg]

:D

[gap8d]

All of the "illegals" I ever worked around would only work half a day anyway--6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. Those that I was around could do so much with so little. Nothing but respect for them and their desire to better themselves.

What I have a problem with is those that are here as a result of luck and I have to support them. Don't forget that this is the "land of opportunity." Some have taken advantage of our desire to better ourselves so they can gain sustenance from us much like a parasite.

I agree, it is illegal for them to cross the river. It is illegal to drive faster than 70. It is also illegal to use drugs, however the media has taken it to a whole new level and made it the "in" thing to do. We as a society support that when we buy the CD's and DVD's that promote this lifestyle.

Just my 2 cents worth. Maybe not even worth that, but I felt the need to voice my thoughts.

Later,

Gap