Another reason to love Mack Brown... [Archive]

KTJ

02-28-2006, 01:28 AM

I love Coach.

Mack responds on FSNSW

"I told Vince when he left that he'll be treated more poorly in the next month or two than ever because he's so high profile.

Secondly, I know for a fact he didn't make 6 on the test because I was told specifically, & I was also told the test was graded wrong when he took it. Anyone reporting he did that poorly is wrong. Point blank. I was told that was the truth, so it's unprofessional & it's really poor for somebody to report a number they don't know is factual and I know is not factual when a young guy has so much riding on it in the future.

Other thing I would like to say about VY is that he just had the highest efficiency rating of any qb in the country. We are very complicated with what we do offensively and he's won 30 games & lost 2. He also would have graduated last fall w/ only three hours to take at UT, where you can't hide an athlete. Vince is very bright. I hate that people had to take a shot like that, that's unfair and untrue.

Also, I probably couldn't pass the test myself if I tried. I've read it & it seems really stupid to me. That's why we don't give it to recruits."

AggieJohn

02-28-2006, 01:43 AM

no substance, he's just defending a former player so none of his short comings with his role of educating VY are exposed

HighSchool Fan

02-28-2006, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
no substance, he's just defending a former player so none of his short comings with his role of educating VY are exposed

his role was to educate him about football. evidently mack done a heck of job in his educating of VY. :rolleyes:

BlueBlood

02-28-2006, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
no substance, he's just defending a former player so none of his short comings with his role of educating VY are exposed

That coming from a guy educated in Liberty, Texas.

KTJ

02-28-2006, 10:11 AM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
no substance, he's just defending a former player so none of his short comings with his role of educating VY are exposed

Care to give an example of said short comings?

Eagle6Man

02-28-2006, 10:18 AM

Perhaps a link to this story will help clear this whole mess up.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3689706.html (http://)

Even as an Aggie fan, I have to admit this whole VY story is getting old. Leave Vince alone for crying out loud.

CenTexSports

02-28-2006, 10:31 AM

We give this test to potential employees and any high school grad should be able to make a 30+. This is not a dificult test by any determination and for a junior in college it should be a cake walk.

If he made less than 35 what has he been doing while going to the University of Texas and what does it say about the education he was supposed to be getting.

vet93

02-28-2006, 10:45 AM

I agree that this test should be a breeze for a college student. However, there are a lot of reasons that a test score can be low other than being stupid. It is time to leave this young man alone. He had a marvelous career at UT and should be commended for it. He is now moving on to a new phase of his life. Let's just wish him well. Good luck Vince....Gig'em

HighSchool Fan

02-28-2006, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
what does it say about the education he was supposed to be getting.

that education is gonna get him around $22 million

raider red 2000

02-28-2006, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by Eagle6Man
Perhaps a link to this story will help clear this whole mess up.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3689706.html (http://)

Even as an Aggie fan, I have to admit this whole VY story is getting old. Leave Vince alone for crying out loud.

i agree, people should quit raggin on this dude...even if he isnt too smart.

would yall or the media rag a guy for being retarded...i doubt it...i know it is a lil extreme, but whats the difference.

i am sure that most people ragging him are just jealous.

i personally am not a UT fan....was a long time ago, but then i saw the light :)

Snyder_TigerFan

02-28-2006, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
that education is gonna get him around $22 million

'nuff said. :)

Phil C

02-28-2006, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by raider red 2000

i personally am not a UT fan....was a long time ago, but then i saw the light :)

Or rather entered into darkness! :)

STANG RED

02-28-2006, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
We give this test to potential employees and any high school grad should be able to make a 30+. This is not a dificult test by any determination and for a junior in college it should be a cake walk.

I'm not raggin on VY at all, but I have to agree with this. I am not a college grad, and I scored a 36.3 on this test, and took just under 4 minutes on it (without pad and pencil).
I cant imagine anyone with a high school ed. scoring less than 30 on it. Most of the questions should be able to be easily answered, just off the top of your head.

Snyder_TigerFan

02-28-2006, 11:07 AM

I had never heard of the test before this, but here are the type of questions...

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

LH Panther Mom

02-28-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by STANG RED
I'm not raggin on VY at all, but I have to agree with this. I am not a college grad, and I scored a 36.3 on this test, and took just under 4 minutes on it (without pad and pencil).
I cant imagine anyone with a high school ed. scoring less than 30 on it. Most of the questions should be able to be easily answered, just off the top of your head.
Dan Marino - 14
Vinny Testaverde - 18
Brett Favre - 22
Donovan McNabb - 16, 12
Michael Vick - 20

Just to name a few.... ;)

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

CenTexSports

02-28-2006, 11:22 AM

Why are some of you so sensitive about us talking about Vince. I am sure that he is not losing any sleep over what is being said about him on 3ADL. If you don't like my OPINIONS, then tough. He put himself in the position to be the topic of discussion by his choice of profession. You worry about what you post and let the rest of us worry about what we want to post.

Vince is a great athlete but he gets none of my respect as a college student or professional. He is a 22 year old kid that thinks he owns the NFL.

STANG RED

02-28-2006, 11:23 AM

I just read where they had to do the test just after running 40s and bench pressing. That would make a huge difference I'm sure.

mustang04

02-28-2006, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by CenTexSports

He is a 22 year old kid that thinks he owns the NFL.
that is about the stupidest comment ive heard in a while.....u SERIOUSLY think that he thinks he owns the NFL?????

LH Panther Mom

02-28-2006, 11:29 AM

big daddy russ

02-28-2006, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
I'm not even a Horns fan. It just seems silly to me to rag on one when there are many that didn't do so well on the same or similar test.
I think the only reason it's being talked about is because Vince was a top 3 pick before the test. I don't know if he's fallen or not, but all the experts are starting to put him in the 7-10 range now.

BreckTxLonghorn

02-28-2006, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
Why are some of you so sensitive about us talking about Vince. I am sure that he is not losing any sleep over what is being said about him on 3ADL. If you don't like my OPINIONS, then tough. He put himself in the position to be the topic of discussion by his choice of profession. You worry about what you post and let the rest of us worry about what we want to post.

Vince is a great athlete but he gets none of my respect as a college student or professional. He is a 22 year old kid that thinks he owns the NFL.

I have no problem with your opinions. But don't you think the Vince fans should have a chance to defend/support him? Of course he's not losing sleep over it, but it gives us a chance to write we think, and that's why we have the message board.

My thoughts on the whole topic:
The wonderlic is overrated. I think for certain jobs it would work well, but its only a baseline for NFL. Few to no colleges conduct it on their recruits, and look how well played and how much of a fanbase it has. Miami U. is slowly becoming NFL U, but you don't hear about them recruiting with a Wonderlic in the first place. They go on a truer test. A field test.

Being generally intelligent is a great thing, but would you want a renowned poet working a wrecking ball? Or a mathematician teaching Hemingway? Of course not. You have to realize that many of these players may not be geniuses, or even care about these tests in the first place. But they are smart in their field of expertise: football. My friend has been a walkon UT football player for four years. I asked him about Vince one time. Here's what he told me: Yeah, the guy looks dumb. And he's not the shiniest apple in the tree. But you put him on a field, and its different. He knows where to put himself to avoid tacklers. He knows where to place the ball on a throw. It's not thinking to him, because he knows the game that well.

Isn't that want you want in an employee? Someone who knows their job so well that its second nature? Football is Vince's second nature. Leave him be on everything else. He's doing what he's best at.

STANG RED

02-28-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I think the only reason it's being talked about is because Vince was a top 3 pick before the test. I don't know if he's fallen or not, but all the experts are starting to put him in the 7-10 range now.

Yes, but remember, most of those same experts were picking USC to stomp UT in the Rose Bowl.

BreckTxLonghorn

02-28-2006, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
I think the only reason it's being talked about is because Vince was a top 3 pick before the test. I don't know if he's fallen or not, but all the experts are starting to put him in the 7-10 range now.

What sites/experts do you check, russ? Just curious.

big daddy russ

02-28-2006, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by BreckTxLonghorn
What sites/experts do you check, russ? Just curious.
After it all happened I checked out a couple of draft boards. The only ones that had updated it at the time were the About.com mock draft (http://football.about.com/cs/nfldraft/a/bl_mockdraft_2.htm) (they dropped him to Denny Green at 10) and Joey's Mock Draft (down to the Raiders at 7.... link (http://joeysnflmockdraft.blogspot.com/) ). Walter's Football mock (link (http://walterfootball.com/draft2006.php) ) and Draft King (link (http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2006/mockdraft.shtml) ) were both updated but still had him at 3. We'll learn more as the draft gets closer.

big daddy russ

02-28-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by STANG RED
Yes, but remember, most of those same experts were picking USC to stomp UT in the Rose Bowl.
LOL, yes they were.

big daddy russ

02-28-2006, 12:21 PM

Personally, I don't give a rats butt where he's picked. If there's a team out there that's willing to tailor its offense to fit VY's strengths he'll be great. It doesn't matter whether he goes first or 50th.

On second thought, the more he slips the more he plays with a chip on his shoulder. Anyone remember the Paul Pierce fiasco?

BreckTxLonghorn

02-28-2006, 12:26 PM

Personally, I'd have no problem with him dropping to play for Detroit rock city or Miami.

District303aPastPlayer

02-28-2006, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by big daddy russ
On second thought, the more he slips the more he plays with a chip on his shoulder. Anyone remember the Paul Pierce fiasco?

explain

KTJ

02-28-2006, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
We give this test to potential employees and any high school grad should be able to make a 30+. This is not a dificult test by any determination and for a junior in college it should be a cake walk.

If he made less than 35 what has he been doing while going to the University of Texas and what does it say about the education he was supposed to be getting.

By this logic, every NFL player who has ever taken this test and didn't score your "30+" is stupid. Name me one NFL/College player who has scored above a 30 on this test?

And for you to correlate the education he got at UT to what he did on a comprehensive skills test is preposterous and even borders on juvenile.

STANG RED

02-28-2006, 01:29 PM

This is from the ESPN website, about the Wonderlic test. Take it for what its worth.

Some teams consider the test results critical. Others say they dismiss the results, except for players who score at the extremes. What's an extreme? Well, former Bengals punter and Harvard grad Pat McInally scored a perfect 50 -- the only NFL player known to do so -- while at least one player, it is rumored, scored a 1. Charlie Wonderlic Jr., president of Wonderlic Inc., says, "A score of 10 is literacy, that's about all we can say." If that's the case, more than a few pros are being delivered the Books-on-Tape version of the playbook.

But players scoring too high are also suspect. If a player is smart, his potential to be a smartass increases exponentially.

E.F. "Al" Wonderlic invented the test as a Northwestern grad student in the psychology department in the 1930s. The test was first given to potential NFL draft picks by a handful of teams in 1970, and it quickly became a popular combine tool because, like everything else at the predraft workout, it put a number on performance, and it did it quickly.

Each year, about 2.5 million job applicants, in every line of work, take the Wonderlic. The average NFL combiner scores about the same as the average applicant for any other job, a 21. A 20 indicates the test-taker has an IQ of 100, which is average.

Some people disagree with the whole idea of IQ testing because they believe the tests are culturally biased and inaccurate. But Charlie Wonderlic doesn't make grand claims for the score derived from his test. "What the score does is help match training methods with a player's ability," he says. "It could be a playbook -- what is the best way to teach a player a play? On the field, the higher the IQ, the greater the ability to understand and handle contingencies and make sound decisions on the fly."

zeus63

02-28-2006, 03:44 PM

CenTexSports

02-28-2006, 04:14 PM

ESPN2 at lunch time had a mock draft expert and he puts Vince at anywhere from 3 to 7 but most likely at 7 depending on the Titans. The Titans have concerns because of his lack of taking snaps under center. We will see.

KTJ - I think the way Vince represents the University is very important. He went to the White House without a tie even though the rest of the team wore one. He refused to work out and made a mockery of the testing by doing so bad. So what is the problem with stating facts. He may be the second coming of Joe Randell Roger Fran Steve and Dan rolled into one but that does not make him the brightest bulb on the tree. However I think he shold work hard to represent the school well that did so much for him.

I hope you don't get this upset on the court when people disagree with you.

big daddy russ

02-28-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
explain
Was supposed to be a lock for a top-five pick out of college. Kept slipping and Milwaukee even had the nerve to pick some 7-footer out of Germany ahead of him.

Pierce got pissed, averaged 16.5 ppg/1.7 spg/4.0 rpg, finished second in ROY balloting (behind Vince Carter) after playing in only 48 games, and became the face of the Celtics.

PS: That was just a loaded draft. Six of the nine players picked ahead of him have made it to at least one All Star Weekend. Ricky Davis fell to 21. The Lakers got Ruben Patterson at 31. The Sonics got a perennial All Star at 32, Milwaukee picked up Skip to my Lou at 39, and Houston got Cuttino Mobley at 41.

Oh, that German was some kid named Nowitzki.

JasperDog94

02-28-2006, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
He refused to work out... So did Leinhart and Bush, but you don't see them getting the bad rap that Vince is now do you? I sense a double standard.

District303aPastPlayer

02-28-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by CenTexSports
ESPN2 at lunch time had a mock draft expert and he puts Vince at anywhere from 3 to 7 but most likely at 7 depending on the Titans. The Titans have concerns because of his lack of taking snaps under center. We will see.

KTJ - I think the way Vince represents the University is very important. He went to the White House without a tie even though the rest of the team wore one. He refused to work out and made a mockery of the testing by doing so bad. So what is the problem with stating facts. He may be the second coming of Joe Randell Roger Fran Steve and Dan rolled into one but that does not make him the brightest bulb on the tree. However I think he shold work hard to represent the school well that did so much for him.

I hope you don't get this upset on the court when people disagree with you.

his luggage was lost and that outfit was a last minute find for the U if you read reports :)

DaHop72

02-28-2006, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
his luggage was lost and that outfit was a last minute find for the U if you read reports :) Why would anybody do that 303. It's a lot easier to just throw rocks.:D

AggieJohn

02-28-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by KTJ
Care to give an example of said short comings?

how about the graduation rate of schools in the big 12, with a&m near the top and texas near the bottom......i remember that report...

oh and how about the fact that texas' graduation rate for it's football players was 2nd to last out of all the bowl teams this year.....

AggieJohn

02-28-2006, 05:38 PM

ktj, take off your burnt orange colored glasses....

teams are only going take vince based upon his athletic ability, the notion that teams are going to structure themselves around him instead of vice versa is ludacris....

i just think that basically him not showing up to work out at the combine raised the red flags that already surrounded him even higher than they were before....

people wanted to see him in action....

and too his credit...i woudn't blame him for his flop at the combine...i would blame major adams, his agent.....his agent is unfamiliar with "the game" and decides to have him do the test and not work about, pretty much the worse decision you could of made at the combine...

HighSchool Fan

02-28-2006, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
how about the graduation rate of schools in the big 12, with a&m near the top and texas near the bottom......i remember that report...

oh and how about the fact that texas' graduation rate for it's football players was 2nd to last out of all the bowl teams this year.....

it's because UT has better athletes and they turn pro before graduating.

mrescape43

02-28-2006, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by AggieJohn
how about the graduation rate of schools in the big 12, with a&m near the top and texas near the bottom......i remember that report...

oh and how about the fact that texas' graduation rate for it's football players was 2nd to last out of all the bowl teams this year.....

How would the graduation rate change if leaving early to turn pro was considered? I know these athletes didn't graduate but if A&M had same caliber of players their graduation rate would be affected in a similar fashion?

BreckTxLonghorn

02-28-2006, 07:12 PM

Actually, not working out is a common thing. Reggie Bush, Matt Leinart, DeAngelo Williams, and D'Brickshaw Ferguson all chose not to work out this year at the combine.

I don't believe no.1 pick Alex Smith did last year either.

Nobody expects the big guns anymore to work out at the combine. VY's announcement wasn't taken as that big of a deal until the Wunderlic fiasco. You have to understand many top picks with nothing to prove (VY, Bush, Leinart) would rather chose to do a private workout where its only scouts and them. It puts them at a comfort level that the meat market like the NFL combine can't give them. BUT THEY ALL WILL WORK OUT FOR SCOUTS.

I agree that Vince shouldn't have taken the test if he wasn't going to work out though. That can also be taken at the personal workout, much like Jay Cutler did at his BEFORE the combine. VY has added a new agent now, because even he realizes it was a debacle.

BreckTxLonghorn

02-28-2006, 07:16 PM

As for graduation, I don't know what to say. I know Vince is the first athlete in Mack Brown's regime to leave college before his athletic eligibility was up. It seems that most of the stopping had to have happened after the athletic scholarship was up then. Many students athletes at the University can't afford to come without the scholarship. Maybe they just didn't have the want to anymore, hoping to get a try as a professional in one of the leagues. I really don't know.

I will agree that as an upstanding, respectable university known for its academic excellence, that number needs to raise.

AggieJohn

02-28-2006, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by BreckTxLonghorn
As for graduation, I don't know what to say. I know Vince is the first athlete in Mack Brown's regime to leave college before his athletic eligibility was up. It seems that most of the stopping had to have happened after the athletic scholarship was up then. Many students athletes at the University can't afford to come without the scholarship. Maybe they just didn't have the want to anymore, hoping to get a try as a professional in one of the leagues. I really don't know.

I will agree that as an upstanding, respectable university known for its academic excellence, that number needs to raise.

excuses are like butt cracks, everyones got em...

and just because a player doesn't come out early doesn't mean they graduate