Why do other towns judge other football programs on history alone?

[GoForIt]

There's a stigma out there of once a loser, always a loser. Why is this? Every year is new with different players and often even new coaches. All this talk about "scheduling sorry teams" chaps my butt. One second you hear someone saying you play a patsy schedule, but then they say one of the teams on that schedule were only good last year or two years ago. Well, then if they were good then and you scheduled them right after that, then you weren't scheduling a bad team on purpose, were you?

[Chief Woodman]

Man did you step into it! Go back into the pervious three weeks posting and look at three threads concerning Tradition and who is overated. Beware: some in here do think that what happened as far back as the 1970's means they have an advantage.......lol

[Gobbla2001]

Ya damn right Chief...

Anyway, going on to the origional question (not bringing up stuff that Chief obsesses over)... People just do it... It has nothing to do with the team who is 'always a loser' or what have you, it has everything to do with a fear that 'their' team isn't 'the' team anymore... So basically it's a disease...

All that it takes is one coach and a certain group of players and a certain 'attitude' to turn things around for a losing program...

A good thing about having people think 'you're a loser because you've always been' is that they EXPECT you to lose when you play them... That's when you give them the 'un'expected...

Take a look at Rice Consolidated... They've been coming up since the 2000 season and in my opinion are on schedule to win a state championship... Now after this year there's a big '?' mark at RC on which way the program's going (most-likely down again), but what's to say the success of this team doesn't spark dreams in the hearts of the young men in that school district?

I think it'd be a fun situation to be a 'GREAT' team thought of as 'losers'...

Come out and bite someone in the arse...

[Chief Woodman]

Thinking that what happened before the players on the field today were born affects the game is just as much a disease as thinking a "Losing" team will always lose. Looks like gobbla is infected and needs some anti-biotics....lol

[Gobbla2001]

We'll try this one more time Woodman...

Your team gets lucky, snabs a good coach in the '70's and your program gets turned around for the better... The kids in the lowers grades are inspired by what those first teams did and said 'I'm playing football'... So #1 you have a lot of kids that show up (more talent to chose from) in those tradition rich programs every year, meaning you always have a lot of players to chose from...

So there's this coach out there who has established himself as one of the best... He's going to move on and he sees that your town has a job opening, he'll think to himself "Man, this place would be a good place to coach, they have a lot of kids coming out to play football, which is the kind of thing I'd like to see where I'm coaching at next..."... BAM, you have a good coach and a lot of kids out to play...

A good coach and talented kids is what it takes to win, right?

'Nuff said...

I NEVER, EVER said that a tradition team is no contest for a team without tradition, did I? No, I said that it always helps to have tradition...

Cuero has tradition, and at the end of my 8th grade year I was faced with a question... My mother and step-father asked my step-brother and I if we would like to move back to Cuero (after leaving Cuero my 3rd grade year) and I said 'YES, I wanna play for a winning football team with tradition...' Now I was no star 8th grade football player, but my step-bro was pretty damn good and started as MLB on JV his sophmore year until injuring his kneck...

Say my step-brother and I were the next Emmit Smith and Troy Aikman... We just moved to Cuero to play football on a winning and tradition team...

There's you another example of how it goes...

Maybe if you came from a traditionally rich school you'd understand...

Luckily I played 7th and 8th grade at Port-Lavaca Calhoun (not a winning program) and the rest of my days at Cuero... So I understand both winning and losing programs...

[j_dog]

Why do other towns judge other football programs on history alone?

Because past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. I just heard that from Dr. Phil himself on the Dr. Phil show so I know it is true! Change the behavior, change the judgements. :)

[spiveyrat]

'tis true jdog. It is especially true with successful football programs whose head coaches remain for years or even decades. A few that come to mind in SE Texas are the likes of West Orange Stark, LaMarque, Bay City, and Newton. I would have included Jasper, but over the last few years, Jasper coaching positions have gone through lots of turnover.

[theyoefnshow]

it's all simple I think. If you think about it, you say a name and people are gonna say one of two things. "oh they're always good" or "who?" Temple for example. They had a dynasty that is fading fast due to the lack of discipline and respect that the former coach had that Bob McQueen did. Now the new guy seems to have things on the up and up but like I said, Temple used to be THE place for hs football and if you look in the record books, they're like in the top 3 of 5A schools w/ all time wins. Some kids hope to win while others simply expect to.

[Chief Woodman]

Sound like a few others see my point...it is the present talent that wins, not what happened YEARS Ago.
The great Gordon Wood did great things at Brownwood, but he won his first two State titles at another school. That school today, even with that tradition, is currently a losing program.

Can you name the school he won his first two titles at and how did they do last week, even with that tradition?

[Gobbla2001]

You still don't understand...

I'm not saying a team will win because of what happened YEARRRRS ago, I'm saying that what happened years ago has triggered some programs (the ones with the 'T' word which you hate so much) to win year after year after year after year... Of course there will be losing seasons, and I don't CARE how Samford did last week, the fact is that the teams who are lucky enough to get a tradition started fight every year, win or lose, to try and honor and continue that tradition...

If I would have stayed at Port Lavaca Calhoun I would not have played in high school, but Cuero having a tradition made me wanna play... That's what happens at Tradition-Rich schools, more kids wanna play...

And NO, I'm not saying that doesn't happen at untraditionally rich schools... If they get ahold of some good kids with a good coach they can go far and maybe start a tradition of their own, it has to start somewhere, right? What I'm saying is the expectations put on these kids at tradition rich schools drives them to play harder and to just play in general...

[Wbulldogs]

well chiefwoodsman the reason they dont have winning season ne more is cause gordon wood happened to leave that school...therefore tradition pretty much left with him

[Chief Woodman]

Thanks for helping me make the point Wbulldogs. It is who is currently coaching and the currnt talent playing....not who was there 20 years ago.

Thanks for making my point!

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Chief Woodman ]</small>

[Gobbla2001]

Yah, Cuero's been to 9 different state championships uner 4 different coaches... It's about who was there then.... wait, he wasn't there then, then, or then... he was there then...

Some schools have the same story... You still don't understand... I suggest going back to school and going to school at a schools with a rich tradition in football, then you'd learn to defend that tradition to the death...

[crzyjournalist03]

GoForIt:
There's a stigma out there of once a loser, always a loser. Why is this? Every year is new with different players and often even new coaches. All this talk about "scheduling sorry teams" chaps my butt. One second you hear someone saying you play a patsy schedule, but then they say one of the teams on that schedule were only good last year or two years ago. Well, then if they were good then and you scheduled them right after that, then you weren't scheduling a bad team on purpose, were you?I hear Preparation-H works well for chapped butts. :D :D :D

[Chief Woodman]

Gobbla- I actually do see your point and agree to some extent. Do you see mine? Others on here (Not necessarly you) try to make it sound like what happend several years ago should mean that the team with "T" should be considered better than teams who were not winning 10 years ago, regardless of who the current coach is or even what talent is currently on the field.

That is just not logical to me, and what I have been trying to say is not true. By the way, good answer on Stamford...lost 73-0 last week.

[Gobbla2001]

I know what you mean in the last post, I do...

And I agree, a team shouldn't be thought of better than another just because they have tradition...

Finally, we reach common-ground...

[Chief Woodman]

Without current good coaching and current talent, tradition means nothing. Ask Samford. They have "T" but it did not put points on the board Friday.

[Chief Woodman]

Gobbla- I think we like the provebial blind men have been seeing the same elephant from differt viewpoints.

[GoForIt]

What ever happened to coach Ronnie Hughes, formerly in Cuero in 90-91? Didn't his son get killed?

[Specklebelly]

Chief, you just need to go to a game at Cuero and look at their program and you will see where Gobbla gets this thought process. I couldnt believe it. The word "tradition" is in the program who knows how many times and it actually lists the years they have won state and been to the state title game in 3 separate places. Be proud of your past but dont try to live in it.

As for my Raiders, everyone shouldnt be jumping on our bandwagon just yet. We really havent beaten anyone. Sorry Cuero but you arent exactly a state title contender. We will see where we stand after the Bellville game. That will truely be our early season measuring stick.

[j_dog]

spiveyrat:
'tis true jdog. It is especially true with successful football programs whose head coaches remain for years or even decades. A few that come to mind in SE Texas are the likes of West Orange Stark, LaMarque, Bay City, and Newton. I would have included Jasper, but over the last few years, Jasper coaching positions have gone through lots of turnover.Why not include Jasper anyway? Aren't they in the top five all time in playoff appearances for 3a teams? I think I saw that in Collier or someplace. :)

Just looked it up. Only Hondo with 41 appearances and Breckenridge with 36 have more than Jasper's 34 appearances. Cameron has 32.

<small>[ September 08, 2003, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: j_dog ]</small>

[Gobbla2001]

No, we're no title contender yet... We're young for sure (starting only 4 seniors)... I'm not on your bandwagon, for sure, but I can tell you that you guys are for real and should take it all...

We're pretty tough ourselves... Our first team D didn't allow any points in 3 scrimmages against La Grange, Refugio AND Gregory-Portland... Scrimmages? Yes... But that's still good... To score 46 on our D was good... Your offense is awesome and your D is awesome...

I've seen some very good teams ranging from the '97 Sealy team etc... and you guys are right up there with 'em...

I know you guys don't wanna get a big head but you gotta face the facts, you're hardcore...

As for the future? I dunno about ole Rice, this might be the last shot for the Raiders, and I'm thinking they'll make the best out of it...

Now don't talk the Gobblers too far down, wouldn't wanna suck down the bowl of Crow in the playoffs... Once we get rollin' it might get ugly, but it might be next year... We'll see...

[Gobbla2001]

Oh, and BTW...

We don't live in the past, we try to honor it...

[spiveyrat]

Jdog: Wow, I didn't realize that. But, I was just making the point that a lot of times long-standing coaches have an effect on a team's winning/losing tradition. Newton's Curtis Barbay is a prime example of that. Gene Walkoviak would be a good example for Jasper while he was there. But, I didn't include him in the original post because I was trying to keep my examples current.

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: spiveyrat ]</small>

[Wbulldogs]

GoForIt:
What ever happened to coach Ronnie Hughes, formerly in Cuero in 90-91? Didn't his son get killed?i remember him moving to abilene high when iwas a 8th grader(i a sr now) and then he moved to clyde when i was a soph...and after last yea he moved again but i not sure ne more

[renegade*dawg]

Coach Hughes is currently with Hardin Simmons University.
He left Clyde this year to coach at a college level.
He did lose one son. He has another son that was playing arena football. Not really sure any more.