The "one site" debate

[3afan]

I've always been against the "one site for all championships" theory ... following are some interesting numbers ::: If the one site was Texas Stadium, Baylor, Reliant or San Antonio how far would each D-II title game participant have to travel?

Texas Stadium, Irving
SLC - 18
Katy - 272
Hebron - 21
Calallen - 420
Tatum - 154
Hutto - 194
Celina - 43
Omaha PP - 142
Stratford - 434
Big Sandy - 122

Alamodome, SA
SLC - 291
Katy - 168
Hebron - 298
Calallen - 143
Tatum - 407
Hutto - 106
Celina - 313
Omaha PP - 404
Stratford - 609
Big Sandy - 375

Reliant, Houston
SLC - 264
Katy - 30
Hebron - 266
Calallen - 221
Tatum - 201
Hutto - 158
Celina - 280
Omaha PP - 364
Stratford - 679
Big Sandy - 243

Baylor, Waco
SLC - 112
Katy - 166
Hebron - 120
Calallen - 317
Tatum - 228
Hutto - 98
Celina - 134
Omaha PP - 225
Stratford - 507
Big Sandy - 196

WHERE THEY ARE PLAYING

Texas Stadium ...
SLC - 18
Katy - 272

RR ISD ...
Hebron - 201
Calallen - 235

Texas Stadium ...
Tatum - 154
Hutto - 194

Mesquite Memorial ...
Celina - 50
Omaha PP - 124

Shotwell, Abilene ...
Stratford - 366
Big Sandy - 291

So if you look at where the teams are playing against where they would have to play if one particular venue was chosen it just doesnt make sense. The 1 site theory is not bad for a smaller state but in Texas it just will not work. IMO the way sites are determined is fair. Yes sometimes it does not work out great for a team that loses a flip but what are you going to do about that? No easy solutions ...

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Depending on the size of the school a minimun seating should be considered.

Highland Park fans not being able to get tickets to their game because it would not hold enough.

[3afan]

but dont you think that should be up to the schools to take care of their own? if HP was so concerned then they apparantly had an option (aTm). but yes, thats an example of it not working out great for a team that loses a flip.

[GS#17]

The 1 site theory is not bad for a smaller state but in Texas it just will not work.

I'm pretty sure they have a one-site championship for all other UIL sporting events (maybe even non-sporting events) and it seems to work pretty well. Why would football be any different than baseball, for example, where all state games are played in Austin at Disch-Faulk?

[bulldogbark]

were in the heck is statford? they seem to have to travel over 300 miles every game? are they in Texas?:) :) :)

[bulldogbark]

its a lot easier to move a baseball team or a volleyball team or a golf team or track team than it is to move a football team across the state. You have a band a pep squad. equipment and band equipment whole lot more to move.

[3afan]

Originally posted by GS#17
I'm pretty sure they have a one-site championship for all other UIL sporting events (maybe even non-sporting events) and it seems to work pretty well. Why would football be any different than baseball, for example, where all state games are played in Austin at Disch-Faulk?


true - and thats a great arguement. but with football you have 20-100 players, band, drill team, etc., maybe 10+ times the students to transport/house/feed.

[DaHop72]

Originally posted by bulldogbark
were in the heck is statford? they seem to have to travel over 300 miles every game? are they in Texas?:) :) :)
Extreme Panhandle of Texas, right before entering Oklahoma.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by GS#17
I'm pretty sure they have a one-site championship for all other UIL sporting events (maybe even non-sporting events) and it seems to work pretty well. Why would football be any different than baseball, for example, where all state games are played in Austin at Disch-Faulk?
The reason for the one site in basketball & baseball is there is a tournament involved.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by bulldogbark
were in the heck is statford? they seem to have to travel over 300 miles every game? are they in Texas?:) :) :)

Panhandle...almost to the Oklahoma Border.

[3afan]

Originally posted by bulldogbark
were in the heck is statford? they seem to have to travel over 300 miles every game? are they in Texas?:) :) :)

Stratford is at the top of the panhandle ...

a few years ago Stratford & Shiner played for the 1A title - if that game would have been predetermined to be in houston then startford goes 679 miles and shiner goes ~110

[Ranger Mom]

hehe...I bet he knows where Stratford is
NOW!!:D

[GS#17]

The reason for the one site in basketball & baseball is there is a tournament involved.

Great point. I had completely forgot about that aspect of the state championship.


true - and thats a great arguement. but with football you have 20-100 players, band, drill team, etc., maybe 10+ times the students to transport/house/feed.

The problem with that argument is that you're going to have those numbers no matter where you go. The flip side is the schools earn a lot more money on football and its satellite activities than the other sports. With a one-site venue, you'd also have to figure the gate draw would be a lot higher than normal, as many more people would travel to see the games, even people who aren't necessarily fans of either team competing in the finals. If you've ever been to watch the state track meet championship, you'll know what I'm talking about. These kind of events draw an enormous amount of people and revenue.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by GS#17
If you've ever been to watch the state track meet championship, you'll know what I'm talking about. These kind of events draw an enormous amount of people and revenue.
With the state track meet, all classes are competing at the same location for the same 2-3 days. Sure, there are an enormous amount of people that attend. Non-competitors have to scramble for hotel rooms unless they've made reservations some time in advance.

Is there a city in the state that could handle the teams, fans and casual observers that would travel to watch 6 football games played over a 2 day period?

[pirate4state]

Imagine the $ these games would bring in if say they book the Astrodome (for example) one weekend to play 1A-5A Div. I state games? :eek: 1A and 2A on Friday and 3A-5A on Saturday. :eek: Talk about an awesome football weekend!! :clap: :D

Consessions, parking, the gate...I'd say charge $10 per session or $45 bucks for the whole weekend event and sit back and rake in the dough.

and maybe they could rotate the site every year... :thinking:

Texas Stadium, Waco ISD, Round ISD, Astrodome, Cotton Bowl (?), A&M, etc....

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by pirate4state
Imagine the $ these games would bring in if say they book the Astrodome (for example) one weekend to play 1A-5A Div. I state games? :eek: 1A and 2A on Friday and 3A-5A on Saturday. :eek: Talk about an awesome football weekend!! :clap: :D

Consessions, parking, the gate...I'd say charge $10 per session or $45 bucks for the whole weekend event and sit back and rake in the dough.
Traffic in Houston on a "normal" day would make me want to shoot myself. :eek: :eek:

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Traffic in Houston on a "normal" day would make me want to shoot myself. :eek: :eek: Yeah, I know...it's not a perfect plan. :p

[GS#17]

With the state track meet, all classes are competing at the same location for the same 2-3 days. Sure, there are an enormous amount of people that attend. Non-competitors have to scramble for hotel rooms unless they've made reservations some time in advance.

That's true, and it just shows, as with the baseball and basketball finals, that it can be done. The state football finals last two weekends, and with a known date, time, and place for the games, boarding accomodations are not that big of an issue. My impression is that most people don't stay overnight in hotels/motels unless there is no other alternative -- a good many people would make a day of it, but they would turn around and come home after all is said and done. Even if they do stay, cities like Houston, Austin, Dallas, or San Antonio, where an event like this would most likely take place, would be more than able to accomodate an influx of visitors, and any overflow would be greatly appreciated and easily handled by the outlying cities.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by GS#17
My impression is that most people don't stay overnight in hotels/motels unless there is no other alternative -- a good many people would make a day of it, but they would turn around and come home after all is said and done. Don't I know it...I drove all over the state (well, not quite-but pretty darn close ;) ) on Saturday. Drove from La Vernia to Round Rock from Round Rock to Waco and back to Sinton. :eek: :crazy: :eyetwitch I got home around 2:30am, but it was a great day&night for football!! :thumbsup:

[mwynn05]

Originally posted by GS#17
That's true, and it just shows, as with the baseball and basketball finals, that it can be done. The state football finals last two weekends, and with a known date, time, and place for the games, boarding accomodations are not that big of an issue. My impression is that most people don't stay overnight in hotels/motels unless there is no other alternative -- a good many people would make a day of it, but they would turn around and come home after all is said and done. Even if they do stay, cities like Houston, Austin, Dallas, or San Antonio, where an event like this would most likely take place, would be more than able to accomodate an influx of visitors, and any overflow would be greatly appreciated and easily handled by the outlying cities. Yeah, Just look at how close they come to selling out the erwin center every year at the state basketball tournament.....the erwin center isnt small

[Cat22]

If it were centralized, I for one would be there both weekends. I would use some vacation days for that for sure. I'm sure there are thousands in the state who would do the same.

[3afan]

for the TEAMS it just doesnt make sense .... its FANS and PRESS who always push the one site concept, thats why TEAMS (superintendants who make up the UIL actually) keep voting it down. they like having control of that.

they probably would not make a great deal of additional money due to additional travel costs, plus splitting the gate with however many teams thay have to split with depending on the schedule.

for the teams it just doesnt make sense ... IMO

[GS#17]

What you have now, though, is a roll of the dice situation -- you might end up meeting an opponent in the middle, traveling further than your opponent, or traveling less distance than your opponent. Two out of the three options aren't going to save teams any money, and the one that saves one school money (picking a site close to them) is going to end up costing the other school more, so it pretty much evens out. Travel is part of the deal, and there's no getting out of that. I truly don't see cost being that much of an issue when deciding the issue.

[LH Panther Mom]

Well, cost very well could be an issue for schools. The teams playing have to share the cost of the stadium fee. I would be willing to bet that the Astrodome costs more to rent than the Mustang Bowl in Sweetwater. For a 6-man state championship game, or even 1a, how much seating do they truly need? Should the small schools be forced to pay for a huge venue when seating of 25% or so of that is needed? Or pay for the additional travel, much less time lost from school? Here's a prime example. Stratford and Big Sandy are playing in Abilene. If the designated site were the Astrodome, then you're looking at roughly 13-15 hours (possibly more) travel time for Stratford, depending on stops.

[GS#17]

I really don't know how much stadiums cost to rent, but it would seem a place would make a lot of money by hosting 10 state championship games vs. 1, so I imagine stadiums would compete and provide savings incentives to play at their venue.

As for travel time, that can go both ways. Hypothetically speaking, Stratford could end up playing a team from the valley, as well. In that case, it's a long drive no matter what, and a predetermined centralized location would make a lot more sense than merely hoping both coaches are willing to split the cost and find a middle ground to play their game. In that situation, what you have now promotes the possibility of a coach winning the toss and making a team drive well-further than a neutral in-between site, and that's not completely fair, either.

[Adidas410s]

IF they were to go to a "set stadium" solution of some kind...I would make it like this.

4A and 5A games can be at the "mega stadiums" such as Texas Stadium, Reliant, DKR, Kyle, Alamo, and Cotton Bowl (after remodel).

For 2A and 3A...I think these games are much better suited in a "smaller venue" whether it be the Mesquite's, Round Rock's, Birdville's, Justin NW's, or Waco ISD's of the world...one of the smaller state universities or even Baylor or Tech...Baylor was a great one for Wylie/Cuero last year.

For 1A...keep the system as is because there are MANY good 1A schools that are in WTX and the Panhandle and the travelling could get absurd if they had to drive to the I-35 corridor or beyond.

6-man...I think Shotwell and Memorial in Wichita Falls would be the best two and give the coaches a "choice" depending on the mileage.

Just my thoughts...I love the system as it is and don't really have a problem with it. One thing that is overlooked by many in regards to the HP situation...I seriously doubt that Coach Allen was thinking about whether or not his fans could fit in the stadium. As many have said, a team always has places that they like to play at and not play at, but the seating capacity is likely something that seldom crosses their mind when getting a venue set for the game.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

I like to think that Marshall got drove because of what they did.

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
I like to think that Marshall got drove because of what they did.

yeah I hear that parents were paying players $1000 for each time they drove some kid off the field :rolleyes:

[3afan]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
I like to think that Marshall got drove because of what they did.

what did Marshall do? they played 100% within the rules ....

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by 3afan
what did Marshall do? they played 100% within the rules ....

he is saying that their not wanting to play at Texas Stadium could have hacked off the HP players with "all the drama" that went on in HP leading up to the game and they just took it to them

[cdlvj]

Originally posted by GS#17
I really don't know how much stadiums cost to rent, but it would seem a place would make a lot of money by hosting 10 state championship games vs. 1, so I imagine stadiums would compete and provide savings incentives to play at their venue.


Ya know who paid for these places in the 1st place. Main gripe is that the public taxes pay to build these stadiums, and people like Jerry Jones and Red McCombs dictate what the rent is.

Same thing at DKR, Brown has no business keeping the HS out.

And would love to see a 6-man championship in San Antonio. All the classes should be centralized on a rotating basis.

[BU97]

For the most part coaches are against the single site deal, they want to have control over the situation. I personally would not have a problem with it ESPECIALLY if the game were televised on FSN. I think that Waco is a good place because it is centrally located (or at least more so than Houston, SA or Dallas) and they have two stadiums in Baylor and WISD. 1A and 2A could be at WISD and 3a, 4A, 5A could be at BU. Stagger the games back anc forth so there is not an issue with fans arrival and team warm up.

I am sure that this will never happen b/c the UIL will put the games in Austin so they won't have to leave home!

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by cdlvj
And would love to see a 6-man championship in San Antonio. All the classes should be centralized on a rotating basis.

You won't see 6-man moved that far down since most 6-man schools are in West Texas and pretty much all of them are west of Dallas.