wimberley/gainesville refs.

[MonkeyJoe7]

anybody else screaming for a wistle?
when there is a 20 person pile pushing backwards for 10 yards/or about 10 seconds (take your pick) shouldnt the ref blow the wistle...am i crazy or was that happening alot that game?

there was a few calls that shouldnt have been made and im sure there were some calls that got missed, but none the less im not blaming the officals on the loss. im proud of gainesville and what they have dont this year and now its time to go and get that b-ball trophy....once again good job wimberely and best of luck next year!

[Whsdogs]

wonder if that was the same crew that had the wylie gainsville game a few weeks back...exact same story there ..sometimes the people would just never blow a whistle it was prob the worst crew i have seen

[VWG]

It's a game played by humans and officiated by humans.
Until you put on the zebra stripes yourself, go start calling junior high games and travelling to six-man and 1A to get your experience....... then on to the higher classifications.....
Well, what I am trying to say is that don't speak for another man unless you've walked in his shoes.

[footsball]

Originally posted by VWG
It's a game played by humans and officiated by humans.
Until you put on the zebra stripes yourself, go start calling junior high games and travelling to six-man and 1A to get your experience....... then on to the higher classifications.....
Well, what I am trying to say is that don't speak for another man unless you've walked in his shoes.
i dont think he needs to be walking in them either if he doesnt know how.:D

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by VWG
It's a game played by humans and officiated by humans.
Until you put on the zebra stripes yourself, go start calling junior high games and travelling to six-man and 1A to get your experience....... then on to the higher classifications.....
Well, what I am trying to say is that don't speak for another man unless you've walked in his shoes.

in the case of officiating...this is VERY true! That being said, it seems like it has been a trend lately in playoff games I have been to the last few years to NOT be calling as many penalties as were called in the regular season. Obviously the personal fouls are still called, but a lot of holding and PI is not being called. I wonder if it is because officials don't want to feel that their calls are getting in the way of a game and "bogging it down." Anybody else noticed this over a span of many games and not just one particular game?

[footsball]

like on holding calls they came out at the 1st of the season and informed coaches that holds would not be called on the back side of the play. if you have a persuit team and gang tackles that part of the defense could be taken out of the equation. i personally dont agree with this and all calls need to be made. all year long it seemed like they just didnt want to make many calls besides holding but off sides, i seen 3 players off sides on a kickoff and nothing, lineing up offsides again nothing, a full stride offsides nothing, pass interfence not called and then offensive interfence called when it didnt appear to happen. maybe a large number retired and we have lesser experienced officials, i dont know

[sportfan53]

The refs in that game could have been the worst I've ever seen! You are right they are human but when you let a pile last as long as those and someone gets hurt its negligence! Glad someone else noticed it. Blow the whistle! I've even seen crews who wouldn't blow the whistle at the end of the play but still called late hits, explain that one! And by the way, those 5 blind mice called at least 2 holding calls behind the play! No they didn't cost the Leopards the game but a few of those foul ups came at some very bad times! Congrats to Wimberly, the Texans played some good ball, too bad a couple of them felt they needed to throw late punches at a couple of the Leopards. Refs "didn't see those either" I guess! Go Big Red!

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by sportfan53
too bad a couple of them felt they needed to throw late punches at a couple of the Leopards. Refs "didn't see those either" I guess! Go Big Red!

You do realize this happens in 80% of all "pileups" in football right?? If not a higher % than that...

[3afan]

late punches thrown in 80%+ of all "pileups" in football ??? i thinks thats way off ... in fact it probably rarely happens. most players play hard and try to play within the rules.

if it does and its seen by the officials then i bet 99.99% of the time its called. IMO of course ............

[Gobbla2001]

I saw a ref at the Cuero/Hutto game throw a flag about 200 feet straight up into the air...

I dunno if he was calling the game or dove hunting...

If he was dove hunting, I do not believe the season has started back up yet, which means he was breaking the rules...

The game should be replayed with non-poaching refs :D

[Whsdogs]

Originally posted by Adidas410s
You do realize this happens in 80% of all "pileups" in football right?? If not a higher % than that...

but in his defense...if spectators see it from way up there or over there...a ref up close should too...but the game is played between the lines and thats why fans dont call the penaltys...refs do their best in most cases and thats all anyone can ask for or do anything about

[rockdale80]

Here is a solution (http://bbs.3adownlow.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39230)

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by 3afan
late punches thrown in 80%+ of all "pileups" in football ??? i thinks thats way off ... in fact it probably rarely happens. most players play hard and try to play within the rules.

if it does and its seen by the officials then i bet 99.99% of the time its called. IMO of course ............

it's also relative to what you would define as a "punch." I am not saying kids are throwing haymakers out there...obviously not! But there is sure plenty of poking, pulling, grabbing, and all other sorts of "inappropriate" conduct going on in a pileup. Most people on here can attest to that from their playing days.

[3afan]

yeah - some of that obviously goes on

[VAMike]

It always gives me a great laugh when we are at this stage of the season and fans start proclaiming some crew as the "worst they have ever seen", especially when it is from small school folks. For the most part, guys who are still working by this point of the season are their Chapter's best officials. There are exceptions but that is the general rule. Furthermore, most all of the guys who are working a semifinal or final playoff game at the 3A, 2A, 1A level are guys that rarely see anything but 4A or5A ball (especially if they are coming out of one of the large Chapters like Houston, Dallas, Ft Worth, San Antonio, and Austin). They may make mistakes but they are far from "the worst ever" category.

A couple of things about some of the specific points:

Holding - Folks need to get used to it, there will be less and less holding calls as more and more guys get on board with the training which is, unless it is a flagrant hold, do not flag them if they are on backside of the play.

Whistles - Whistles are not needed to make a play dead. The play kills itself. The whistles are just a way of letting players know who cannot see that the play has become dead. I suspect most late hit fouls you see are when someone hist a downed runner. The charging defender should be able to see that the player is down and whistle or no whistle, stay off him.

"The pile" - I have been on the ground and seen a pile moving backwards but yet the runner still has what appears to be a good chance of breaking loose of it. We are not going to whistle that dead. If the player wants the play to end, then all he has to do is fall down. Obviously if his feet are off the ground and he has no ability to move, then it should be blown dead.

[3afan]

Originally posted by VAMike
...fans start proclaiming some crew as the "worst they have ever seen",...


sore losers mostly...

[football4life]

Originally posted by 3afan
late punches thrown in 80%+ of all "pileups" in football ??? i thinks thats way off ... in fact it probably rarely happens. most players play hard and try to play within the rules.

if it does and its seen by the officials then i bet 99.99% of the time its called. IMO of course ............

Umm you would be surprised... I have some pretty good stories from teammates who have plenty of experience down in the trenches in those situations.

[Whsdogs]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by VAMike
[B]It always gives me a great laugh when we are at this stage of the season and fans start proclaiming some crew as the "worst they have ever seen", especially when it is from small school folks. For the most part, guys who are still working by this point of the season are their Chapter's best officials. There are exceptions but that is the general rule. Furthermore, most all of the guys who are working a semifinal or final playoff game at the 3A, 2A, 1A level are guys that rarely see anything but 4A or5A ball (especially if they are coming out of one of the large Chapters like Houston, Dallas, Ft Worth, San Antonio, and Austin). They may make mistakes but they are far from "the worst ever" category.

just like any game in the playoffs the team could have played their worst game...a officiating crew can also call their worst game no matter what size school...

[Chris Hart]

Just to show a different perspective. I did notice the whistles being blown late, 'BUT' they always had it marked where the forward progress was stopped ITO, to their credit. The only real flaw I saw, was it seemed they gave Gainesville several very generous spots following the late whistles.

[HighSchool Fan]

Originally posted by Chris Hart
Just to show a different perspective. I did notice the whistles being blown late, 'BUT' they always had it marked where the forward progress was stopped ITO, to their credit. The only real flaw I saw, was it seemed they gave Gainesville several very generous spots following the late whistles.

that sounds like you just gave the refs credit then took it right back from them. which is it??

[Chris Hart]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
that sounds like you just gave the refs credit then took it right back from them. which is it?? Well, i was just saying that they were indeed trying to get the forward progress spot right, even though they let the Lep ball carriers be overwhelmed a bit much. I was just saying that during this, I think more than a few times they lost track of where the forward progress was stopped as they were watching the swarming, and gave the Leps the benefit of the doubt a number of times with generous spots. I don't think they did it purposely. There weren't any problems when the Texans had the ball, I didn't notice all the swarming as I did when the Leps had it....;)

[whtfbplaya]

LOL it just so happens that no one has said anything about rules being wrong and they get the worst ever rating. Ha :doh: :thinking:

[sportfan53]

Originally posted by VAMike
It always gives me a great laugh when we are at this stage of the season and fans start proclaiming some crew as the "worst they have ever seen", especially when it is from small school folks. For the most part, guys who are still working by this point of the season are their Chapter's best officials. There are exceptions but that is the general rule. Furthermore, most all of the guys who are working a semifinal or final playoff game at the 3A, 2A, 1A level are guys that rarely see anything but 4A or5A ball (especially if they are coming out of one of the large Chapters like Houston, Dallas, Ft Worth, San Antonio, and Austin). They may make mistakes but they are far from "the worst ever" category.

A couple of things about some of the specific points:

Holding - Folks need to get used to it, there will be less and less holding calls as more and more guys get on board with the training which is, unless it is a flagrant hold, do not flag them if they are on backside of the play.

Whistles - Whistles are not needed to make a play dead. The play kills itself. The whistles are just a way of letting players know who cannot see that the play has become dead. I suspect most late hit fouls you see are when someone hist a downed runner. The charging defender should be able to see that the player is down and whistle or no whistle, stay off him.

"The pile" - I have been on the ground and seen a pile moving backwards but yet the runner still has what appears to be a good chance of breaking loose of it. We are not going to whistle that dead. If the player wants the play to end, then all he has to do is fall down. Obviously if his feet are off the ground and he has no ability to move, then it should be blown dead. Give me a break, I've watched almost 35 years of football from 3A to 5A from podunk to Houston/Austin/Temple/DFW, next point. Now, tell me how a play does not need to be blown dead to be over! You've got 270+ def/off lineman that are coached to block/defend/guard/tackle until they hear a whistle. Especially in an offense that the runs reverse field frequently and a lineman has his back to the play. He hits someone and the ref flags him for a late hit and there is NO WHISTLE! Don't think so dude. My turn, you where stripes on Friday nights right? And understand I don't expect perfect, only one perfect individual that I've ever known just don't give the coaches garbage like I didn't see it when the kid's backswing almost hits him in the head while throwing a haymaker at one of our players after the play almost. hit

[3afan]

VAMike is correct sportsfan53 ....... the play is over when its over. yes, 99.99+% of the time the official will blow the whistle when he decides to kill the play. but if a runner is clearly down and there is no whistle for some reason that does not give the defenders a free shot. yes, the kids are taught to go until they hear the whistle, and like i said, 99.99+% of the time they will hear the whistle. but if they dont (for whatever reason) they can still be flagged for a late hit. just because you've been a fan for a long time does not mean there is no room to learn something new....

[Rbuck]

VAMIKE is held in high reguards among officials in the state.
I have seen VAMIKE call on 3 occasions, he is an outstanding official.

Read the NCAA rule book and you will find a play kills the play

The 2 biggest misconceptions are 1. The whistle kills a play
2. His head was in front

[3afan]

bump

[Dogman_1969]

A good football coach in Rockdale years ago had a motto. "You have to beat them bad enough that the ref's don't matter!"

It kinda fits most situations.............................

[CenTexSports]

This is probably redundant but:

Most people don't know the "rules" of football enough to be a bad official. They know the basics but there is a lot more to officiating than knowing the basics. A play is over by rule not by the whistle. As an example, an inadvertant whistle does not just end a play, it gives the team in possession an opportunity to take the result of the play or replay the down.

Rules that kill the play include: ball carrier running out of bounds, a ball on the groungd (say after a punt) that no one is making a play on, the ball going into the end zone on a free kick (untouched) and a player not attempting to possess it, a ball carrier making contact with the ground with anything other than his feet, hands, or the ball, and an incomplete forward pass. None of these require a whistle to have the paly be over.

I wish all coaches had to go to a rules class and that there was one available for fans also. It would be an eye opening experience for the fans, I am sure.

One thing that really bugs me is hearing fans talk about Illegal Procedure penalties. There is no such thing in Texas High School football. If you hear someone say that an illegal procedure penalty was called they were wrong. Most penalties are illegal procedures or they would not be called but there is NO actual illegal procedure penalty per say.

[whtfbplaya]

Originally posted by sportfan53
Give me a break, I've watched almost 35 years of football from 3A to 5A from podunk to Houston/Austin/Temple/DFW, next point. Now, tell me how a play does not need to be blown dead to be over! You've got 270+ def/off lineman that are coached to block/defend/guard/tackle until they hear a whistle. Especially in an offense that the runs reverse field frequently and a lineman has his back to the play. He hits someone and the ref flags him for a late hit and there is NO WHISTLE! Don't think so dude. My turn, you where stripes on Friday nights right? And understand I don't expect perfect, only one perfect individual that I've ever known just don't give the coaches garbage like I didn't see it when the kid's backswing almost hits him in the head while throwing a haymaker at one of our players after the play almost. hit

[whtfbplaya]

Funny ref story: Two years ago in week 10 a ref I know went to help out and call a thurs jv game. The coach was mad all night, hollering and screaming at him and after the game he said that the only reason he came was for the sandwitch. The next night the same ref had their varsity district championship game and the ref walked by the same coach and asked if they were serving sandwitches after the game. lol

BTW- 2 of the guys that worked the JV game have a combined 60 years of experience and worked 5a games for most of that time. And the coach never shut up, it's just in some peoples nature.

[whtfbplaya]

Originally posted by whtfbplaya
Funny ref story: Two years ago in week 10 a ref I know went to help out and call a thurs jv game. The coach was mad all night, hollering and screaming at him and after the game he said that the only reason he came was for the sandwitch. The next night the same ref had their varsity district championship game and the ref walked by the same coach and asked if they were serving sandwitches after the game. lol

BTW- 2 of the guys that worked the JV game have a combined 60 years of experience and worked 5a games for most of that time. And the coach never shut up, it's just in some peoples nature.

Wow now that is funny:D

[VAMike]

Originally posted by sportfan53
Now, tell me how a play does not need to be blown dead to be over! You've got 270+ def/off lineman that are coached to block/defend/guard/tackle until they hear a whistle. Especially in an offense that the runs reverse field frequently and a lineman has his back to the play. He hits someone and the ref flags him for a late hit and there is NO WHISTLE! Don't think so dude.

Most officials are NOT idiots. They are NOT going to flag a player for playing while his back is to the ball because they know the player has no way of knowing ball is dead until the whistle. And that is the only reason the whistle is even blown in most cases, to alert other players that play is over. All this being said, even if the play is not over a player can be flagged for unneccessary roughness for blocking an opponent who is obviously out of the play. Example, offense runs a sweep to the left and it is going for mega-yards. An offensive player spots a defender just jogging down the field, having obvioulsy given up on the play. If the offensive player takes a cheap shot at him because he sees the defender not paying attention, that is a foul. This type of foul is sometimes confused by the fan (and by some officials) who thknk it is a "late hit". Technically it is not but is IS unneccessary roughness.