HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!......AGHHH....makes me sick!

[Paratrooper]

I hate this politically correct thing of wishing folks a "Happy Holiday" during Christmas. I have grown to really despise the words "Happy Holidays". I really do hate that people are in a real battle to end something that is so innocent in American society. It is MERRY CHRISTMAS. So many PC things going on nowadays. It's no wonder we ever survived for over 200 years with all the horrible things like greeting people with Merry Christmas. Even the DownLow has it on their website. Well, Merry Christmas to you all.

[pirate4state]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
Well, Merry Christmas to you all. I'm so offended! LMAO!! :D I hear you trooper. :clap:

Merry Christmas and BA-HUMBUG to the rest of you, you know who you are! :p :D :D

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by pirate4state
I'm so offended! LMAO!! :D I hear you trooper. :clap:

Merry Christmas and BA-HUMBUG to the rest of you, you know who you are! :p :D :D

Yes, I really wish the Downlow would change it. Happy Holidays has really gotten to be a 4 letter word. Folks just trying to take Christ out of Christmas.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
I hate this politically correct thing of wishing folks a "Happy Holiday" during Christmas. I have grown to really despise the words "Happy Holidays". I really do hate that people are in a real battle to end something that is so innocent in American society. It is MERRY CHRISTMAS. So many PC things going on nowadays. It's no wonder we ever survived for over 200 years with all the horrible things like greeting people with Merry Christmas. Even the DownLow has it on their website. Well, Merry Christmas to you all.

DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO DITTO
MAAAAAAAAAAAAARRY CHRISTMAS!

[Bullaholic]

"Happy Holidays" to those who require it----It will always be "Merry Christmas" to those who believe in it and it's meaning.

[GS#17]

From someone who is not Christian, I rather enjoy seeing the phrase "Happy Holidays." I appreciate the people who wish to encompass all in their seasons greetings -- this isn't anything about taking Jesus out of Christmas, but there are other holidays going on now, and it's nice those are still somewhat acknowledged.

[JTate]

Merry Christmas to all... It could be worse though, as in Merry Xmas, that really offends me....

[ftrmustangmom]

Merry CHRISTmas!!!! :)

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by GS#17
From someone who is not Christian, I rather enjoy seeing the phrase "Happy Holidays." I appreciate the people who wish to encompass all in their seasons greetings -- this isn't anything about taking Jesus out of Christmas, but there are other holidays going on now, and it's nice those are still somewhat acknowledged.

I disagree. American society is presently 87% Christian with the most significant event in December being Christmas. If you want to recognize some of the other holidays such as Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or Ramadan that is fine with me. A greeting of Happy Hanukkah works just fine. The smaller celebrated holidays do not have to intrude on a lumping of making everyone happy. Christmas is a Christian holiday and is celebrated by over 300 million people here in the United States. There are more than that celebrate it worldwide. It really is an erosion of our society and its values as to why I oppose the words. You can't pray in school anymore and now something as simple as Christmas is being assaulted. The majority does not have to conform to the minority.......even if it is politically correct to do so.

[STANG RED]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
I disagree. American society is presently 87% Christian with the most significant event in December being Christmas. If you want to recognize some of the other holidays such as Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or Ramadan that is fine with me. A greeting of Happy Hanukkah works just fine. The smaller celebrated holidays do not have to intrude on a lumping of making everyone happy. Christmas is a Christian holiday and is celebrated by over 300 million people here in the United States. There are more than that celebrate it worldwide. It really is an erosion of our society and its values as to why I oppose the words. You can't pray in school anymore and now something as simple as Christmas is being assaulted. The majority does not have to conform to the minority.......even if it is politically correct to do so.
I'm likeing you better and better all the time. YOU DA MAN!!!

[GS#17]

I think you're on a bit of a slippery slope, personally. Having someone say "Happy Holidays" does not erode any societal values; rather, it embraces all who celebrate at this time of year. I don't see this as a degradation of your holiday; rather, it is very Christian to Love Thy Neighbor...

BTW, you say how all Christians celebrate the holiday; however, that is not quite correct. Jehova's Witness followers are Christian but do not celebrate Christmas. Also, Kwanzaa, which you mentioned, is a cultural celebration, not a religious one. Many people who celebrate Kwanzaa are not only Christian, but they celebrate both Kwanzaa and Christmas simultaneously.

[GS#17]

Maybe I'm missing the point here...

Is it offensive that the phrase "Happy Holidays" is being used on a secular high school football message board or is it offensive that the phrase is surrounded by Christmas symbols, and, in your eyes, it doesn't seem to fit?

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by GS#17
Maybe I'm missing the point here...

Is it offensive that the phrase "Happy Holidays" is being used on a secular high school football message board or is it offensive that the phrase is surrounded by Christmas symbols, and, in your eyes, it doesn't seem to fit?
What I actually think he's getting at is that most department stores/restaurants/etc. will not allow employees to use the words Merry Christmas when greeting a customer.

You say you're not Christian, so does it offend you when someone says Merry Christmas?

[mustang68]

Originally posted by Bullaholic
Happy Holidays to those who require it----Merry Christmas to those who believe in it.
I don't care whether you believe it or not

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[GS#17]

You say you're not Christian, so does it offend you when someone says Merry Christmas?

Absolutely not.

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by mustang68
I don't care whether you believe it or not

MERRY CHRISTMAS


Huh?????

[mustang68]

Originally posted by GS#17
Maybe I'm missing the point here...

Is it offensive that the phrase "Happy Holidays" is being used on a secular high school football message board or is it offensive that the phrase is surrounded by Christmas symbols, and, in your eyes, it doesn't seem to fit?

MERRY CHRISTMAS

[GS#17]

Seasons greetings! ;)

[Bullaholic]

Originally posted by mustang68
I don't care whether you believe it or not

MERRY CHRISTMAS

I think you missed the meaning of my post, mustang68. I am saying that Christians will continue to believe in the traditional meaning of Christmas despite the pressures of political correctness.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by GS#17

BTW, you say how all Christians celebrate the holiday; however, that is not quite correct. Jehova's Witness followers are Christian but do not celebrate Christmas. Also, Kwanzaa, which you mentioned, is a cultural celebration, not a religious one. Many people who celebrate Kwanzaa are not only Christian, but they celebrate both Kwanzaa and Christmas simultaneously.

I don't remember posting that Kwanzaa was a religious holiday. However, lets look at Jehova's witness since you want to go that route. Jehova's witness was founded in 1872 but the name was changed to Jehova witness in 1931. Christmas has been celebrated since the 4th Century. The Jehovah's Witnesses vehemently portray the doctrine of the Trinity as pagan in origin and that Christendom, as a whole, has bought the lie of the devil. Along with denying the Trinity is an equally strong denial of the deity of Christ, the deity of the Holy Spirit, the belief in hell, and eternal conscious punishment in hell. Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to celebrate Christmas, birthdays, Easter, Thanksgiving, or any other holidays, claiming they all have pagan roots. They have a right to their beliefs, but Christians also have the right to have their day as well. Lumping or confusing what Christmas is about.......especially a group that views Christmas as a pagan holiday is just a bad analogy to me. However, the bottom line is that Christmas is being assaulted and it is flat wrong. Your point is somewhat mute in the fact that you have lumped the phrase "Happy Holiday" with groups that either believe Christmas is of pagan decent or groups that oppose Christianity. The phrase "Happy Holidays" is used as an assault on Christmas......that's the bottom line.

[GS#17]

As always, your views are very, umm, interesting, I'll give you that...

Anyway, you started the thread by writing, "I really do hate that people are in a real battle to end something that is so innocent in American society." I don't understand how saying, "Happy Holidays," is anything more than an innocent saying in our society; however, you seem to have no problem attacking that (for whatever reason). I guess the road only goes one way on that one...

Jehova's Witnesses are a sect of Christianity, as are Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, etc. Just because you don't agree with their views doesn't make them any less of what they are. In this case, they are Christians who don't celebrate Christmas.

My point about Kwanzaa is not to confront an issue of you believing it's a religious holiday, but you did write, "If you want to recognize some of the other holidays such as Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, or Ramadan that is fine with me." What I was trying to convey is that some Christians celebrate more than one holiday during this month, and several of them appreciate the saying, "Happy Holidays," since it encompasses all their cultlural celebrations.

Either way, it's obvious we are always going to disagree on this subject. I wish you and your family a Merry Christmas, and happy holidays to all! :)

[Paratrooper]

You know I always like jabbing with you GS #17......and a Merry Christmas to you as well.:D

[Gobbla2001]

Christmas should be referred to as Christmas...

The 'season', however, is a Holiday season, with 3 major holids...

[vet93]

I know that there are alot of well meaning folks out there who see nothing wrong with Happy Holidays. It is, afterall, a rather benign statement that has been around for awhile...how come that should ruffle any feathers? Well....To be quite honest the term is far from benign because many who are advocating its use have an agenda much more encompassing than simply trying to make the holidays more inclusive. The use of these terms is the battle ground of a much larger conflict that is shaping the future of our nation. It is a conflict between people of faith, particularly Christians because they are the predominant religion in our country and secular humanist. We have had muslims, jews, buddhist and many other religious groups in this country for hundreds of years and only until recently has the use of Christian phrasology, symbols and writings been considered a big deal. Why didn't these groups object then? It is because they new that they were in a "Christian" country and it was expected that Christian holidays would be observed. Now, all of the sudden the secular humanist, using inclusiveness and tolerance as their justification have begun to wage a battle against all things Christian. Why? Is is because they hate all Christians? Probably not. The reason is because the Judeo-Christian Influence/ethic/morality brings with it a value system and accountablility that secular humanist do not want. Secular humanism brings with it moral relativism. Meaning that morals are defined by the person and the situation. The judeo-christian viewpoint uses scripture as the compass that dictates right from wrong. Moral relativism/Situational ethics/"if it feels good do it" is a slippery slope where our base desires can trump traditional morality if the opportunity presents itself. This, in my mind leads to social chaos because the god that is worshiped is tolerance and inclusiveness not "right vs. wrong". The secular humanist do not want a group of Christains (or anyone else) trying to distinguish for them the difference between right and wrong. That is why this battle about "Happy Holidays" and everything "Christian" has much bigger stakes than what has been proposed by some on this thread. It is not about being culturally sensitive....it is about what value system we will take into the future. I for one believe that if we choose moral relativism, that it will start us on a slippery slope that will mean the decay and possibly the crumbling of our society....this battle is that important.

[rockdale80]

America is a melting pot for many religions, ethnicity's, and backgrounds so embrace it. Things change and ideals evolve. The governement wasn't established to move the majority, but to protect the minority. I mean a hundred years ago women couldn't vote, black people were 3/5 a man, and up until 50 years ago there was still segregation. There were great fights to break down the barriers and allow equality to people based on ethnicity, and gender, and I think we can all agree that those were steps that needed to be made. Maybe accepting everyone for their religion/beliefs/non-beliefs isnt such a bad idea My only point is there are other people out there that are good, hard working americans, who at the end of the day don't pray to the same god as you and I do. So lighten up and to everyone else "HAPPY HOLIDAYS."

[GS#17]

Vet, that just sounds very bizarre to me. No offense, I just don't follow your reasoning at all. The entire belief that there is some kind of clandestine battle against Christians in the US, which is apparently a part of some kind of conspiracy amongst "secular humanists," is far-fetched.

As far as I can tell, the only reason this is such an issue is because people are following their own beliefs and not conforming with an ultra-conservative, radical Christian view; that is, a segment of closed-minded Christians get put out when businesses, high school football message boards, or public schools issue a universal greeting to a mass public. Rather than genuflecting and saying only "Merry Christmas," somehow, those non-conformists start a "battle" against society as a whole by being considerate and wishing all people a greeting of "Happy Holidays" while still following their own beliefs.

The mass commercialism of this holiday season is why this one-sided dispute has become so noticeable. Rather than people celebrating their faith at churches or in the confines of their houses, people have been lured to spend money (and lots of it) on this holiday. In return, people have confused commercialism with religious celebration. Whichever holiday a person wishes to celebrate is a personal choice -- it shouldn't matter what is on a billboard, television, radio or newspaper ad, or even on a high school football message board. When we get to the point where people are comfortable with their own beliefs without feeling they're being force-fed someone else's religious ideologies, we will have made a great stride. Unfortunately, we're nowhere near that point and it is a sad state of affairs when a simple greeting can be contorted to somehow signal a secret societal revolution. :rolleyes:

[mustang68]

I don't have a problem with "Happy Holidays".
What I do have a problem with "Merry Christmas" being banned because it might offend some 17 % of the population. This is the time of year we celebrate a miraculous birth, whether it happened on Dec. 25 or not; this question is moot.
I also celebrate Kwanza, am tolerant of Haunaka, and very aware of the winter solstice.
However it is Christmas time.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good playoff Saturday.

[GS#17]

What I do have a problem with "Merry Christmas" being banned because it might offend some 17 % of the population.

Where is it banned?

[vet93]

I don't disagree with much of what you said. Though I would redefine the reason for our government to "Recognize the majority while protecting the minority." I was not asking you to pray to my God nor was diminishing the whole "melting pot" issue. My discussion was to define the battle over value systems that our culture is engaged in. I align myself with one side and you the other. But one way or the other...we will all have to choose and our choice will shape our future. Merry Christmas;)


Originally posted by rockdale80
America is a melting pot for many religions, ethnicity's, and backgrounds so embrace it. Things change and ideals evolve. The governement wasn't established to move the majority, but to protect the minority. I mean a hundred years ago women couldn't vote, black people were 3/5 a man, and up until 50 years ago there was still segregation. There were great fights to break down the barriers and allow equality to people based on ethnicity, and gender, and I think we can all agree that those were steps that needed to be made. Maybe accepting everyone for their religion/beliefs/non-beliefs isnt such a bad idea My only point is there are other people out there that are good, hard working americans, who at the end of the day don't pray to the same god as you and I do. So lighten up and to everyone else "HAPPY HOLIDAYS."

[mustang68]

Originally posted by GS#17
Where is it banned?

Many schools, even here in Texas, ElPaso to be specific, have banned the use of Merry Christmas.

[CHS_CG]

Originally posted by mustang68
Many school, even here in Texas, ElPaso to be specific, have banned the use of Merry Christmas.

Also many stores will not allow their employes to say Merry Christmas.. I agree with 68.. I do not have a problem sayin happy holidays but do not ban the phrase Merry Christmas!

[GS#17]

I'm guessing the non-Christian population in El Paso is much less than 17%...

From personal experience, the majority of people don't just cater to minority views; they're forced to do it. While this may be a case of some good-hearted people doing what they (and I) believe is right, there may also be more to the story.

A public school is not a ground for organized religious worship, that is clear; however, if objects are promoted for educational or historical purposes only, that's a different story. Who knows -- maybe they crossed the line from educating to promoting religion...

[GS#17]

Also many stores will not allow their employes to say Merry Christmas

Well, it certainly isn't any store around here! :D

[vet93]

I was not insinuating that there was some kind of organized conspiracy theory...I was trying to describe a battle over the value system that is predominantly followed and that the "happy holidays" issue is only a part. I have no problem with the term in itself...very pleasant. However, I believe that the battle over it represents more than meets the eye. I recognize that we each have the right to disagree and enjoy the debate. I stated what I believe and you responded...We can agree to disagree agreeably :) By the way...I agree with you about the commercialization of the holiday season.....when you throw money into the mix...it certainly heightens this debate!


Originally posted by GS#17
Vet, that just sounds very bizarre to me. No offense, I just don't follow your reasoning at all. The entire belief that there is some kind of clandestine battle against Christians in the US, which is apparently a part of some kind of conspiracy amongst "secular humanists," is far-fetched.

As far as I can tell, the only reason this is such an issue is because people are following their own beliefs and not conforming with an ultra-conservative, radical Christian view; that is, a segment of closed-minded Christians get put out when businesses, high school football message boards, or public schools issue a universal greeting to a mass public. Rather than genuflecting and saying only "Merry Christmas," somehow, those non-conformists start a "battle" against society as a whole by being considerate and wishing all people a greeting of "Happy Holidays" while still following their own beliefs.

The mass commercialism of this holiday season is why this one-sided dispute has become so noticeable. Rather than people celebrating their faith at churches or in the confines of their houses, people have been lured to spend money (and lots of it) on this holiday. In return, people have confused commercialism with religious celebration. Whichever holiday a person wishes to celebrate is a personal choice -- it shouldn't matter what is on a billboard, television, radio or newspaper ad, or even on a high school football message board. When we get to the point where people are comfortable with their own beliefs without feeling they're being force-fed someone else's religious ideologies, we will have made a great stride. Unfortunately, we're nowhere near that point and it is a sad state of affairs when a simple greeting can be contorted to somehow signal a secret societal revolution. :rolleyes:

[mustang68]

Originally posted by GS#17
Well, it certainly isn't any store around here! :D

I am so glad Merry Christmas

[mustang68]

Since when is saying Merry Christmas organized religion, foisting a religious belief, or trying to insult anyone? It's a mere greeting of good will which I wish for you during these Holidays
Merry Christmas

[GS#17]

Since when is saying Merry Christmas organized religion, foisting a religious belief, or trying to insult anyone? It's a mere greeting of good will which I wish for you during these Holidays

I think the saying "Merry Christmas," in itself, suggests a unique religious view. Whether it's fostering a religious belief or used an insult is up to the context in which it is used. With that said, though, I truly believe most people don't think anything of it when they say it -- they're just enjoying the season and trying to be nice.

[GS#17]

We can agree to disagree agreeably :)

Agreed! :)

[mustang68]

Peace and Goodwill
Everyone have a great weekend
Happy Holidays
Merry Christmas
Happy New Year and

Go Mustangs Win State

[mustang04]

:cheerl: :cheerl: HAPPY BIRHDAY :cheerl: :cheerl: :clap:





oh wait.......uhhhhh........wrong thread...i uh, bud duh uh ....mm yah hehe, i dont even know y i posted that....:doh: ....better yet....why am i even in here??!:thinking: :doh: