3afan
12-06-2005, 05:41 AM
Seats tough for high school fans to score
HP, Southlake Carroll fans face smaller venues, allotments
03:00 AM CST on Tuesday, December 6, 2005
By MATT WIXON / The Dallas Morning News
Highland Park High School fans have waited since 1957 to see their team win a state football championship. On Saturday, many might still be waiting, even if Highland Park beats Marshall for the Class 4A Division I state title.
The reason: Trinity Mother Frances Rose Stadium, the 12,000-seat facility in Tyler where the game will be played, doesn't have enough seats for all of them. Highland Park, which brought more than 11,000 fans to last Saturday's regional final, has a presale allotment this week of 5,500 tickets.
Fans of Southlake Carroll could be in a similar situation on Saturday. Carroll plays Lufkin in a Class 5A state semifinal at Homer Bryce Stadium on the campus of Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches.
That stadium has seats for 14,575 fans and can crowd in thousands more on grass seating, but Carroll's game last week against Plano attracted nearly 35,000 to Texas Stadium.
"I think if we had enough tickets, we would take 15,000 people there for the game," said Steve Kent, a Highland Park fan and member of the athletic program's booster club. "Here we are in the state championship game for the first time in 48 years, and you're saying we can only take one-third of the people?"
"It will definitely be jampacked," Carroll coach Todd Dodge said.
Why are games of such large stature being played at stadiums of small stature?
For one thing, the sites weren't determined until last weekend. In the University Interscholastic League football playoffs, the opposing coaches decide where the contest will be played. Sometimes they agree on a neutral site, and sometimes it's settled by a coin flip.
The coaches for the Carroll-Lufkin and Highland Park-Marshall games couldn't find neutral game sites that were agreeable to both sides. One possible neutral site, with plenty of seating, would have been Baylor University's Floyd Casey Stadium. But the stadium in Waco, site of last year's Carroll-Lufkin state semifinal, is booked this weekend for a "Welcome Back the Troops" celebration.
So the respective coaches determined the sites by coin flip. Winning flips for Carroll and Highland Park would have meant playing at Texas Stadium. Wins for Lufkin and Marshall would have meant playing at stadiums in East Texas.
"We flip all the time, and you have a 50-50 chance of having the game 12 miles from your place and a 50-50 chance of having it 12 miles from their place," Mr. Dodge said. "Unfortunately, there's not 60,000-seat stadiums all over the state of Texas."
Euless Trinity also lost a coin flip over the weekend, so it will play Converse Judson for the Class 5A Division I state title at 11,000-seat Round Rock ISD Stadium.
That's the smallest stadium of the three, but it might be the least crowded on Saturday. The Trinity-Judson game will be televised by Fox Sports Net Southwest, and that will keep a lot of fans at home. But the Highland Park and Carroll games won't be seen on television.
They won't be seen by every fan who wants a ticket, either. That upsets Highland Park follower Lance McIlhenny, a quarterback for the team in the 1970s.
"We're going to have 7,000 people who aren't going to be able to see the game," he said. "Kids work hard to get to this point and, for whatever goofy rule, the attendance is going to be limited. It's just too bad."
It was also inevitable, said Charles Breithaupt, UIL athletic director. He said the UIL executive committee has discussed for several years the possibility of creating permanent, rotating sites for the state football championship games. Large venues in Texas' three largest cities – Dallas, Houston and San Antonio – would switch off playing host to the title games.
But the Texas High School Coaches Association has been against it, Mr. Breithaupt said. He said that the association is adamantly opposed to anyone other than the two coaches determining the site.
"It's a control issue," he said, "but how much control do you have in a coin flip?"
And that leads to what Mr. Breithaupt calls the "$64,000 question."
"Do I want the lasting memory for kids in a state championship game to be at a high school stadium?" he said. "And what if I'm the parent of a kid in the game, and I can't get in the game?"
Danny Long, athletic director of the Tyler school district, said he doesn't expect that to happen at Rose Stadium. He said the stadium could seat as many as 17,000, and he doesn't foresee any problems.
"Everyone says this is going to be the largest crowd [at Rose Stadium] ever," he said, "but I'll believe it when I see it. Two hours is a long way to come for a football game."
But not nearly as long as a 48-year wait for a state title.
Staff writers Tim MacMahon and Dave Lance contributed to this report.
E-mail mwixon@dallasnews.com
NEED A TICKET?
Fans who want to see a high school football game this week would be wise to buy their tickets early. Here's ticket info for the three games that might be sold out if you wait too late Saturday:
HIGHLAND PARK (vs. Marshall)
Tickets available: 5,500 presale tickets
On sale: Tuesday through Thursday, 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m.; Fri. 8:30 a.m. to noon
Location: Highlander box office
Prices: $8 adults, $5 students, $10 at gate
SOUTHLAKE CARROLL (vs. Lufkin)
Tickets available: 7,000 presale tickets
On sale: During school hours, starting noon Wednesday noon until noon Friday
Locations: Carroll and Dawson middle schools; Johnson and Durham elementary schools; Carroll High School; Carroll Senior High School
Prices: $8 adults, $6 students ($10 at gate)
EULESS TRINITY (vs. Converse Judson)
Tickets available: 5,500 presale tickets
On sale: Tuesday through Friday, 8 to 4:30 p.m.
Locations: Pennington Field box office; Euless Trinity High School (during school hours)
Prices: $8 adults, $5 students, ($10 at gate)
FILL 'ER UP
High school football fans might find it hard to get a ticket for some of the top matchups on Saturday. Highland Park, Southlake Carroll and Euless Trinity are playing at small venues that might not seat all the teams' fans. Here's a breakdown:
School Last week's attendance This week's capacity
Highland Park 21,423 (vs. Stephenville, Denton's Fouts Field) 12,000 (vs. Marshall, Tyler's Rose Stadium)
Southlake Carroll 34,783 (vs. Plano, Texas Stadium) 14,575 (vs. Lufkin, Nacogdoches' Homer Bryce Stadium)
Euless Trinity *10,000 (vs. A&M Consolidated, Waco ISD Stadium) 11,000 (vs. Converse Judson, Round Rock ISD Stadium)
*Estimated; official attendance unavailable
HP, Southlake Carroll fans face smaller venues, allotments
03:00 AM CST on Tuesday, December 6, 2005
By MATT WIXON / The Dallas Morning News
Highland Park High School fans have waited since 1957 to see their team win a state football championship. On Saturday, many might still be waiting, even if Highland Park beats Marshall for the Class 4A Division I state title.
The reason: Trinity Mother Frances Rose Stadium, the 12,000-seat facility in Tyler where the game will be played, doesn't have enough seats for all of them. Highland Park, which brought more than 11,000 fans to last Saturday's regional final, has a presale allotment this week of 5,500 tickets.
Fans of Southlake Carroll could be in a similar situation on Saturday. Carroll plays Lufkin in a Class 5A state semifinal at Homer Bryce Stadium on the campus of Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches.
That stadium has seats for 14,575 fans and can crowd in thousands more on grass seating, but Carroll's game last week against Plano attracted nearly 35,000 to Texas Stadium.
"I think if we had enough tickets, we would take 15,000 people there for the game," said Steve Kent, a Highland Park fan and member of the athletic program's booster club. "Here we are in the state championship game for the first time in 48 years, and you're saying we can only take one-third of the people?"
"It will definitely be jampacked," Carroll coach Todd Dodge said.
Why are games of such large stature being played at stadiums of small stature?
For one thing, the sites weren't determined until last weekend. In the University Interscholastic League football playoffs, the opposing coaches decide where the contest will be played. Sometimes they agree on a neutral site, and sometimes it's settled by a coin flip.
The coaches for the Carroll-Lufkin and Highland Park-Marshall games couldn't find neutral game sites that were agreeable to both sides. One possible neutral site, with plenty of seating, would have been Baylor University's Floyd Casey Stadium. But the stadium in Waco, site of last year's Carroll-Lufkin state semifinal, is booked this weekend for a "Welcome Back the Troops" celebration.
So the respective coaches determined the sites by coin flip. Winning flips for Carroll and Highland Park would have meant playing at Texas Stadium. Wins for Lufkin and Marshall would have meant playing at stadiums in East Texas.
"We flip all the time, and you have a 50-50 chance of having the game 12 miles from your place and a 50-50 chance of having it 12 miles from their place," Mr. Dodge said. "Unfortunately, there's not 60,000-seat stadiums all over the state of Texas."
Euless Trinity also lost a coin flip over the weekend, so it will play Converse Judson for the Class 5A Division I state title at 11,000-seat Round Rock ISD Stadium.
That's the smallest stadium of the three, but it might be the least crowded on Saturday. The Trinity-Judson game will be televised by Fox Sports Net Southwest, and that will keep a lot of fans at home. But the Highland Park and Carroll games won't be seen on television.
They won't be seen by every fan who wants a ticket, either. That upsets Highland Park follower Lance McIlhenny, a quarterback for the team in the 1970s.
"We're going to have 7,000 people who aren't going to be able to see the game," he said. "Kids work hard to get to this point and, for whatever goofy rule, the attendance is going to be limited. It's just too bad."
It was also inevitable, said Charles Breithaupt, UIL athletic director. He said the UIL executive committee has discussed for several years the possibility of creating permanent, rotating sites for the state football championship games. Large venues in Texas' three largest cities – Dallas, Houston and San Antonio – would switch off playing host to the title games.
But the Texas High School Coaches Association has been against it, Mr. Breithaupt said. He said that the association is adamantly opposed to anyone other than the two coaches determining the site.
"It's a control issue," he said, "but how much control do you have in a coin flip?"
And that leads to what Mr. Breithaupt calls the "$64,000 question."
"Do I want the lasting memory for kids in a state championship game to be at a high school stadium?" he said. "And what if I'm the parent of a kid in the game, and I can't get in the game?"
Danny Long, athletic director of the Tyler school district, said he doesn't expect that to happen at Rose Stadium. He said the stadium could seat as many as 17,000, and he doesn't foresee any problems.
"Everyone says this is going to be the largest crowd [at Rose Stadium] ever," he said, "but I'll believe it when I see it. Two hours is a long way to come for a football game."
But not nearly as long as a 48-year wait for a state title.
Staff writers Tim MacMahon and Dave Lance contributed to this report.
E-mail mwixon@dallasnews.com
NEED A TICKET?
Fans who want to see a high school football game this week would be wise to buy their tickets early. Here's ticket info for the three games that might be sold out if you wait too late Saturday:
HIGHLAND PARK (vs. Marshall)
Tickets available: 5,500 presale tickets
On sale: Tuesday through Thursday, 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m.; Fri. 8:30 a.m. to noon
Location: Highlander box office
Prices: $8 adults, $5 students, $10 at gate
SOUTHLAKE CARROLL (vs. Lufkin)
Tickets available: 7,000 presale tickets
On sale: During school hours, starting noon Wednesday noon until noon Friday
Locations: Carroll and Dawson middle schools; Johnson and Durham elementary schools; Carroll High School; Carroll Senior High School
Prices: $8 adults, $6 students ($10 at gate)
EULESS TRINITY (vs. Converse Judson)
Tickets available: 5,500 presale tickets
On sale: Tuesday through Friday, 8 to 4:30 p.m.
Locations: Pennington Field box office; Euless Trinity High School (during school hours)
Prices: $8 adults, $5 students, ($10 at gate)
FILL 'ER UP
High school football fans might find it hard to get a ticket for some of the top matchups on Saturday. Highland Park, Southlake Carroll and Euless Trinity are playing at small venues that might not seat all the teams' fans. Here's a breakdown:
School Last week's attendance This week's capacity
Highland Park 21,423 (vs. Stephenville, Denton's Fouts Field) 12,000 (vs. Marshall, Tyler's Rose Stadium)
Southlake Carroll 34,783 (vs. Plano, Texas Stadium) 14,575 (vs. Lufkin, Nacogdoches' Homer Bryce Stadium)
Euless Trinity *10,000 (vs. A&M Consolidated, Waco ISD Stadium) 11,000 (vs. Converse Judson, Round Rock ISD Stadium)
*Estimated; official attendance unavailable