Is this True about Orange, Texas

[Jody]

I saw this article while studying my Orange, Texas history. Just wondering if this is true or not?

Undisclosed source.....and no I won't testify Congress.

The beginning of the end for the West Orange Cove Ind. School District(and the city of Orange) was when they would not give any tax relief for the American Bridge-United States Steel Plant that was having a little short-term difficulty. Instead they were greedy and held that big local employers' foot to the fire. Consequently, the US Steel Plant shutdown and moved--thus leaving Orange as ONE of the 10 fastest economically dying cities of America. And soon other Companies followed suite....

[shankbear]

post a link to the article por favor

[Jody]

Originally posted by shankbear
post a link to the article por favor

It was copy protected.

[shankbear]

type the link in like the old days

[Paratrooper]

I know I had family that lost their jobs back then over that thing. Orange has been on the decline for years now.

[shankbear]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange,_TX#Demographics

Orange facts

[Paratrooper]

Here is a breakdown of Orange County Schools and comparisons of test results reported to the state

High Schools

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/cs_compare/tx/?sortby=distance&tab=over&area=c&area=c&county=Orange&level=h&x=12&y=9

Junior High Schools

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/cs_compare/tx/?sortby=distance&tab=over&area=c&area=c&county=Orange&level=m&x=9&y=12

Elementary Schools

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/cs_compare/tx/?sortby=distance&tab=over&area=c&area=c&county=Orange&level=e&x=16&y=15

Orange Schools were far worse on their test scores just due to they can't get quality teachers in there. The economic downfall of the city has resulted in one of the Junior Highs in Orange being academically unacceptable. It all really kind of ties into what Jody was talking about. Most of the really good business' left Orange long ago.

[Paratrooper]

This is the ecomomic breakdown of median households in the area.

Bridge City
Median Household Income: $ 42,045

Port Neches
Median Household Income: $ 47,523

West Orange
Median Household Income: $ 32,224

Pinehurst
Median Household Income: $ 32,827

Mauriceville
Median Household Income: $ 52,500

Pine Forest
Median Household Income: $ 43,000

Nederland
Median Household Income: $ 45,188

Groves
Median Household Income: $ 42,692

[chaingang]

[QU Most of the really good business' left Orange long ago. [/B][/QUOTE]


I guess thats why they have a new home depot:rolleyes:


And to Jody, its funny how some Barbers Hill people have to find anything to make them feel better for having an INFERIOR football team.!!!!!!!!!:hand:

[GS#17]

Just to dispel your concerns, Jody, corporations rarely rely on tax incentives to make important decisions. It may be a factor, but there are a lot of other important issues to consider, especially if they are in such financial turmoil that they would actually need a tax break. It certainly is not the only or even the major reason most companies decide to act in any particular way. One thing you fail to mention or recognize is the entire Golden Triangle area has suffered substantial economic hardship. In a nutshell, Orange is having much of the same problems the entire region is having.

Para, a few things are worth mentioning about your posts -- WOCCISD is a poor area with a significant race-minority population (70% or thereabouts, if I remember correctly). There is no evidence the quality of teachers is any less here than anywhere else in the state -- that's just something out of left field; however, if you want to talk about standardized test scores, there is a lot of evidence that indicates minority students and students from poor families generally do not fare as well as non-minority students or students from affluent families. I would argue the white flight/urban flight from Orange (which is definitely not unique to Orange -- you see population flight all over the area, state, and country for various reasons) to outlying areas (BC and Little Cypress, in particular) has a much more detrimental effect on test scores than a corporate exodus.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by GS#17
Para, a few things are worth mentioning about your posts -- WOCCISD is a poor area with a significant race-minority population (70% or thereabouts, if I remember correctly). There is no evidence the quality of teachers is any less here than anywhere else in the state -- that's just something out of left field; however, if you want to talk about standardized test scores, there is a lot of evidence that indicates minority students and students from poor families generally do not fare as well as non-minority students or students from affluent families. I would argue the white flight/urban flight from Orange (which is definitely not unique to Orange -- you see population flight all over the area, state, and country for various reasons) to outlying areas (BC and Little Cypress, in particular) has a much more detrimental effect on test scores than a corporate exodus.

It is a poor area because all the business' left. Orange used to be long ago a thriving city. Port Arthur used to be nice also and is in the same boat.
I don't really see where race is an issue with children learning. That is only pigment; it is simply a darker color of the skin. Pigment has no effect on how well you learn. A poor child can pick up a book the same as a rich child. I think a quality teacher should be able to take any student and fill that child with knowledge. The second part of a child learning is a parent that gets involved in a child's education is where the student will excel.
I will never buy into tone of skin equals a failing student. That is a recipe for failure as soon as you invoke that cowardly excuse. Some of the better teachers have left that school system and that is a fact. They certainly wouldn't get the low academic scores they are receiving.
The statistics on Orange do show a decline of academics, as well as, a decline of economics. Just as what was described in the first part of this thread. The business' did leave and that has now caused the economic woe's of the city.

[chaingang]

Originally posted by GS#17
Just to dispel your concerns, Jody, corporations rarely rely on tax incentives to make important decisions. It may be a factor, but there are a lot of other important issues to consider, especially if they are in such financial turmoil that they would actually need a tax break. It certainly is not the only or even the major reason most companies decide to act in any particular way. One thing you fail to mention or recognize is the entire Golden Triangle area has suffered substantial economic hardship. In a nutshell, Orange is having much of the same problems the entire region is having.

Para, a few things are worth mentioning about your posts -- WOCCISD is a poor area with a significant race-minority population (70% or thereabouts, if I remember correctly). There is no evidence the quality of teachers is any less here than anywhere else in the state -- that's just something out of left field; however, if you want to talk about standardized test scores, there is a lot of evidence that indicates minority students and students from poor families generally do not fare as well as non-minority students or students from affluent families. I would argue the white flight/urban flight from Orange (which is definitely not unique to Orange -- you see population flight all over the area, state, and country for various reasons) to outlying areas (BC and Little Cypress, in particular) has a much more detrimental effect on test scores than a corporate exodus.


Yeah Para, but thanks for playing!:D

[shankbear]

The City of Orange is over 60% anglo population. (see link above). The largest part of the minority community resides in the City of Orange. WOCCISD is Orange, WO, and Pinehurst.

[Jody]

Originally posted by chaingang
[QU Most of the really good business' left Orange long ago.


I guess thats why they have a new home depot:rolleyes:


And to Jody, its funny how some Barbers Hill people have to find anything to make them feel better for having an INFERIOR football team.!!!!!!!!!:hand: [/B][/QUOTE]

I asked this because I used to live in Orange and knew the industry that was in the article (steel). I thought, if true, what a bunch of simple-minded city leaders. Nothing more and certainly nothing to do with BH or any other school. Just thought someone from Orange would know.

As for the education and economic comparisons, that is not relevant to my question.

[GS#17]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
It is a poor area because all the business' left. Orange used to be long ago a thriving city. Port Arthur used to be nice also and is in the same boat.
I don't really see where race is an issue with children learning. That is only pigment; it is simply a darker color of the skin. Pigment has no effect on how well you learn. A poor child can pick up a book the same as a rich child. I think a quality teacher should be able to take any student and fill that child with knowledge. The second part of a child learning is a parent that gets involved in a child's education is where the student will excel.
I will never buy into tone of skin equals a failing student. That is a recipe for failure as soon as you invoke that cowardly excuse. Some of the better teachers have left that school system and that is a fact. They certainly wouldn't get the low academic scores they are receiving.
The statistics on Orange do show a decline of academics, as well as, a decline of economics. Just as what was described in the first part of this thread. The business' did leave and that has now caused the economic woe's of the city.

Para, when you look at poor areas in a discussion like this, the first thing you have to do is look at why they're poor. If it's due to a corporate exodus, as is the argument here, the entire city and its surrounding areas would be in financial quagmire, not just one specific pocket of an area. As you pointed out, though, Orange has a much lower household income than much of its surrounding cities. The hub of business for Orange County is in the WOCCISD -- neither Bridge City nor Mauriceville have a DuPont, Chevron, Firestone... When you look at why the population of Orange is poorer than its outlying areas, it's obvious corporation closures or moves to other regions/states/countries have very little to do with your argument -- if that was the case, BC, OF, Little Cypress, Mauriceville, etc. (communities/municipalities where there are very few corporate dollars) would have the same or worse financial woes as residents in the WOCCISD. Rather, moves due to ethnocentric motives, a desire to preserve a perceived economic status, and urban fallacies (among other reasons), have caused the decline in population and residential income in the district, but have spurred the growth in outlying areas.

You also confuse the concepts of "learning" and cultural differences in standardized test scores. They are two distinct areas. Learning has nothing to do with skin color, and if you look at the quality or potential of students, there is no difference between the students in the WOCCISD and elsewhere; however, if you look at standardized test scores between white vs. black and affluent vs. poor students, there are substantial gaps. That topic is not something I made up -- it's been proven by many studies and there are numerous reasons (or at least theories) for the differences. There are some outstanding teachers in every public school, and, just like every other public school district, the WOCCISD certainly has their share of very talented teachers. It is a fact the school district is turning out a lot of very talented, motivated, and all-around smart students, and a lot of that has to do with the quality of teachers in the WOCCISD and their success as leaders.

[shankbear]

Jody...Levingston Shipbuilding employed more people than American Bridge. The management drained the company and it suffered from being run from New Jersey. It went under after American Bridge was sold by US Steel. Other companies through the years have tried to make a go of it at the old American Bridge facility. It is a repair facility now.

Economics of an area as well as the quality of education have a huge bearing on the growth or demise of a city. Those are tied hand in hand when the economic climate causes companies to look for greener pastures. Fewer tax dollars mean fewer dollars for the classroom and so on. Top that off with the Robin Hood system which hurt WOCCISD.

Orange is trying to stimulate its economy by helping in the Lamar Orange area as well as the new boat launch facility. Hope for the best. Maybe the small things will help.

[BrahmaDAD70]

American Bridge Steel plant closed because Japan could make
steel for pennies on the dollar and the union labor
would not bargan on their wages. The plant had no choice
but to close down. I dont think there were many rich folk
working in the plant just blue collar labor. So I dont know
about white flight.

[Old Cardinal]

I think that the figures are quite interesting on the youth performance at various schools extracted and presented by Paratroper. Congrats to OF for doing so well. It is kind of tragic in that I was talking to a school knowledgeable person and a certain school district has a lot of teachers that have applications out all over the county. That means that any teacher considered extra capable can move to another District and those deemed less capable cannot make a move.
On the taxation issues, if more and more taxes are burdened on Dupont and the rest of those remaining on Chemical Row then everyone will be affected in the county ultimately. The steel and shipbuilding and related industries have mostly left; what will be next?
I see new Petrochemical industry sprouting up in Jefferson County and kind of wonder when the big taxing folks will give incentives to companies to invest in Orange County instead of playing the sock-it-to-them game.

[setex]

Our area, Beaumont, Port Arthur, Orange is suffering. Our younger population has to leave to earn a living.

If we took a poll I would bet that 75% of WOS and BC posters do not live in their hometown.

[BrahmaDAD70]

I love it
See not just dumb jock talk but insight,
facts and knowledgeable post. (most of the time)
3ADL rocks.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by GS#17
Para, when you look at poor areas in a discussion like this, the first thing you have to do is look at why they're poor. If it's due to a corporate exodus, as is the argument here, the entire city and its surrounding areas would be in financial quagmire, not just one specific pocket of an area. As you pointed out, though, Orange has a much lower household income than much of its surrounding cities. The hub of business for Orange County is in the WOCCISD -- neither Bridge City nor Mauriceville have a DuPont, Chevron, Firestone... When you look at why the population of Orange is poorer than its outlying areas, it's obvious corporation closures or moves to other regions/states/countries have very little to do with your argument -- if that was the case, BC, OF, Little Cypress, Mauriceville, etc. (communities/municipalities where there are very few corporate dollars) would have the same or worse financial woes as residents in the WOCCISD. Rather, moves due to ethnocentric motives, a desire to preserve a perceived economic status, and urban fallacies (among other reasons), have caused the decline in population and residential income in the district, but have spurred the growth in outlying areas.

You also confuse the concepts of "learning" and cultural differences in standardized test scores. They are two distinct areas. Learning has nothing to do with skin color, and if you look at the quality or potential of students, there is no difference between the students in the WOCCISD and elsewhere; however, if you look at standardized test scores between white vs. black and affluent vs. poor students, there are substantial gaps. That topic is not something I made up -- it's been proven by many studies and there are numerous reasons (or at least theories) for the differences. There are some outstanding teachers in every public school, and, just like every other public school district, the WOCCISD certainly has their share of very talented teachers. It is a fact the school district is turning out a lot of very talented, motivated, and all-around smart students, and a lot of that has to do with the quality of teachers in the WOCCISD and their success as leaders.

We have pretty much the same viewpoint but you’re playing on a mix of words. You stated that skin color has nothing to do with learning (I agree), but then you say that white vs. black has substantial gaps. Where we differ is in the concept of why those children are not excelling in the classroom. There is always a cause as to why a child does not reach his full potential as a human being. Education must be the focus of any ISD. Standardized test are put in place to point out where "leaders" are failing our students. When Orange brings up its test scores to match its successful football teams, then I will be impressed. As I looked at the facts that were reported to the state it does give the appearance that children are not receiving a good education in the Orange School system. There are only two places of blame that can be attributed to this failing. Children fail either because of poor parenting or poor teaching. Hopefully the City of Orange will turn it around in the future, but to turn a blind eye to the problem does not help with the solution. I will use the flight of WOS schools to further show not only the ecomomic woes but the academic woes of a dying city. When WO, Stark. and Wallace first converged into WOS, WOS was a 5A school. It now has receded to a 4A and now a new alignment has brought it to a 3A. To me this translates to people are leaving the district. Then on top of people leaving the school it is not meeting its obligation to fill young minds with knowledge.
In the economic disparity of Orange I will give you the example of Beaumont. Beaumont revitalized its downtown that once was one of the biggest eyesores in SE Texas. The downtown is coming back. It brings in more money, and the business' generated not only feeds the school systems, but also brings the standard of living to a higher level to the effected populace. Orange does have the ability to do the same, especially since it is strategically placed in an area that has the ability to thrive. However, again leadership is failing the city.

[shankbear]

The schools in Beaumont have all been consolidated and there is flight to Lumberton. It happens everywhere. Crockett Street has helped but it isn't the world. Jefferson County is swimming in debt. The schools have just barely made a "no rating" level or something similar on an appeal. Their schools aren't the bright shining star either. See Port Arthur and others.

[shankbear]

consolidated into one district NOT one school

[shankbear]

There used to be the Beaumont ISD and the South Park ISD.

BISD was Beaumont High and French
SPISD was South Park and Hebert and Forest Park as I recall.

[GS#17]

Paratrooper, standardized tests are just one measurement, but if the truth be told, all it is really good at is quantifying the ability of a student to take a standardized test -- nothing more, nothing less. I won't rehash what I've said about proven cultural differences in standardized test scores... I don't think you're following my point on that subject, for whatever reason.

As for successes, WOCCISD has enjoyed many and, regardless of how narrowly a person wishes to view the district, it provides a great learning environment with wonderful teachers who have helped educate several very productive citizens. The district has enjoyed a partnership with LU to have "tech prep" classes, and in addition to its regular curriculum, the district offers several vocational courses. Yet, it is the standardized test score, with all its flaws and limitations, that you wish to rely upon... So be it. I doubt we'll ever come to a complete agreement on how strong the school or community truly is.

The facts are that the Golden Triangle area is not seeing much of a positive economic growth, if any, and Orange is part of a regional economic slump. Orange offers more amenities (parks, shops, restaurants, museums, etc.) than the outlying communities such as Bridge City or Mauriceville; more job opportunities than those places; and quality educational opportunities. For various reasons, I believe Orange's population is stablizing, though. Whether it rebounds to a town of 30K anytime soon, is doubtful...

[LogieJoeBean001]

My cousin is on the school board for Mauriceville-Little Cypress, just on the outskirts of Orange, and he has told me about the underachieving of WOS and other schools, I believe. I'll admit in a heartbeat that when the new TAKS test was introduced results for many school dropped dramatically. Seems there are a lot of problems there with students just not making the grades on the standardized test, which I don't really care for in assessing what a student knows but the State thinks so...but I've never liked it...and that there was talk at one time about switching some things around between school districts. I did hear something about the teacher thing but when students don't perform who gets the finger pointed at them first. Some kids just don't take tests well and some don't perform well no matter WHAT you do...trust me. You can beg, plead, offer tutorials before and after school and even during tutorial time and they never show. As it's been said, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink. Hard to help them when they don't want to be helped...guess cause it's not the "cool" thing to do? It's so disheartening and saddens the heart when you try everything humanly possible and still...not much response!

Not trying to start trouble or anything, just stating what I've been told by someone closely associate with the area.

[WOS87]

Originally posted by GS#17
When you look at why the population of Orange is poorer than its outlying areas, it's obvious corporation closures or moves to other regions/states/countries have very little to do with your argument -- if that was the case, BC, OF, Little Cypress, Mauriceville, etc. (communities/municipalities where there are very few corporate dollars) would have the same or worse financial woes as residents in the WOCCISD. Rather, moves due to ethnocentric motives, a desire to preserve a perceived economic status, and urban fallacies (among other reasons), have caused the decline in population and residential income in the district, but have spurred the growth in outlying areas.

Amen to that! The city of Orange is dying?!?!? GIVE ME A BREAK!!... yes, the city of Orange has lost 25% of it's official population over the past 35 years but the population of Orange hasn't gone anywhere other than just outside the city limits.... mostly up to unincorporated areas of Little Cypress and Orangefield... and the majority of those people (including all three of my siblings) commute in to the city to work. They just don't won't their kids going to school there. In fact, Orange county is not losing population at all, but has grown by over 16% in the past 30 years and that is by no means accounted for by increases in the Vidor and Bridge City areas....

Official U.S. Census Data
Population of Orange County
1970 - 71,170
1980 - 83,838
1990 - 80,509
2000 - 84,966 (13,796 increase in 30 years)

Population changes in the 3 largest incorporated towns
Population of Orange (city)
1970 - 24,457
1980 - 23,628
1990 - 19,370
2000 - 18,643 (5,814 decrease in 30 years)

Population of Vidor
1970 - 9,736
1980 - 11,834
1990 - 10,935
2000 - 11,440 (1,704 increase in 30 years)

Population of Bridge City
1970 - 8,164
1980 - 7,667
1990 - 8,010
2000 - 8,651 (487 increase in 30 years)

What I see here is a net decrease of 3623 people in the three major towns of the county, yet an increase of 13,796 people in the county overall... where are all of those 17,000+ extra people that weren't there 30 years ago and don't live in Orange, BC or Vidor??


Originally posted by Paratrooper Children fail either because of poor parenting or poor teaching. Hopefully the City of Orange will turn it around in the future, but to turn a blind eye to the problem does not help with the solution. I will use the flight of WOS schools to further show not only the ecomomic woes but the academic woes of a dying city. When WO, Stark. and Wallace first converged into WOS, WOS was a 5A school. It now has receded to a 4A and now a new alignment has brought it to a 3A. To me this translates to people are leaving the district.

First of all, every school in the area EXCEPT the only schools still drawing from mostly unincorporated areas (i.e. LCM and Orangefield) has dropped classification over the past 25 years... Vidor, PNG, Nederland and WOS were ALL 5A from 1980-1985, BC, Jasper and Silsbee were all 4A during that same period. The main reason for the fall in classification was not rapid loss of population in the Golden Triangle, but rather the rapid increase in enrollment cutoffs by the UIL (see the following link) Historical UIL Realignment Numbers (http://texashsfootball.com/board/index.php?showtopic=14866) The 4A/5A cutoff in 1984 was 1305 students, whereas it was 1925 students in 2004. Yes WO-S has lost students, but hardly the 60-70% I've heard people tout... the enrollment has gone from the mid-1300's down to the upper 800's in the past 20 years which kind of mirrors the decrease in the town population but there is no way that that will continue for long mainly because pretty soon it is no longer going to be any cheaper to build a brand new house in Little Cypress and commute into town rather than to have one in Sunset or Country Club right there in the city limits.

As for poor parenting and/or poor teaching being the only cause of the poor academic showing of some of these students, I must partially agree with you, but I believe it's a bit more complicated than that. Maybe a poor system is more to blame than either of the above and it's been shown over and over again that there's a major correlation between socioeconomic status and academic achievement. It's also a sad fact that in general, the most experienced and higher quality teachers will generally be working in the better paying, more affluent districts. The same situation is present in pretty much all of the inner city school districts around the state (Houston ISD, Dallas ISD etc.).. and due to the way the system is set up to allow students to voluntarily leave and transfer to another school if their school gets an unsatisfactory rating it turns the situation into a self-perpetuating cycle, with the only possible direction to go being downwards...

But do I think this is signalling the end of WOCCISD and the city of Orange forever?? No way! Every town has it's ups and downs over time and from the data I've seen, Orange bottomed out economically sometime back in the 90's and has shown signs of heading back up in a positive direction over the past few years.

[exbccards76'smom]

Originally posted by shankbear
The schools in Beaumont have all been consolidated and there is flight to Lumberton. It happens everywhere. Crockett Street has helped but it isn't the world. Jefferson County is swimming in debt. The schools have just barely made a "no rating" level or something similar on an appeal. Their schools aren't the bright shining star either. See Port Arthur and others.

Lumberton is growning by leaps and bounds, and it is spreading northward. Kountze is trying to pass a bond issue to build a new Middle school. If and when I-69 is built, expect all areas north of Beaumont to boom.

[Old Cardinal]

Boy this is interesting in that the Orange-West Orange posters keep saying that ALL of the area is in economic decline and that is just not true. All of the rest of Orange County has slabs being poured and are doing quite well. I see most all areas of Jefferson County doing quite well also. Again most of the schools are doing very good. The inability to accept that something is really wrong in isolated areas by even the posters on here proves they don't want to accept responsibility or just turn a blind eye.
I think that things could be done to help the cratering areas besides throwing more local, state and federal money in to inept politicians that have proven via schools and/or local government that they squander the money instead of making good use of it; for the communities sake.
Having at last count-- 69 lawyers-- in Orange County mostly living as some kind of parasite on the people of Orange County has not helped any either.

[Paratrooper]

I will extend an olive branch of agreement in the fact that their will be other causes of failing grades. However, I do think that parenting and teaching are the two major reasons. Of course, none of us are going to solve the multitude of problems brought on by this academic and economic failings on a message board, but I do think it is interesting reading.
I personally think that the city of Orange needs to streamline their planning to fall in line with current techniques. Most major and middle sized cities in the United States employ techniques using GIS (Geographic Information Systems) to more effectively plan the zoning and growth of a city. These would be more of a proactive solution than a reactive solution to planning. In the information age of technology is it almost a crime not to maximize some of the latest technologies and employ them.
By folks moving out the city to adjacent parts they have taken a lot of the income with them. This has caused a vacuum within the city which, and I do agree, has caused a cycle of downturn for the residents left. The problem that I see is that even with the numbers spiraling down there has to be a more viable solution than just bring in small business'. A revitalization or overhaul is needed to halt this trend downward. It may require revenue brought it by other forms of business. However, once growth is on an upward trend this will have a cause/and effect of the failing school systems. They are all tied in together. BCISD and Orangefield ISD are no more than 5 miles from Pinehurst and West Orange, but yet are far exceeding the academic achievement. Better schools, mean a higher standard of living brought on by higher property values and median income. There is never an American who wants to send their child to a failing school. I obviously don't have the solution to all of the economic and academic woe's of Orange, but the sad thing is I don't think the leadership in Orange has a solution either and by the trend analysis of what I have seen I really don't think they are working on it hard enough.

[X Man]

Jody,
American Bridge shutting down, (not leaveing the area, as they were part of US Steel), had nothing to do with taxes, regardless of what some may say. They were hit by the economic crisis common to the gulf coast region, in that time period. The fact of the matter is that the US Navel Base and the ship yards here, played a huge part in out local economy. When they shut down, our economy took a huge hit. Actually, the Navy Base just cut make to almost nothing, but was held a skeleton crew until about a year ago when it shut down altogether. Anyway, the shipyards had come to relay largely on the oil industry, and when the oil industry took a big hit in the late 70s and early 80s, the ship yards contracts dried up. The ship yards sought tax relief, but without contracts, it was only a matter of time. Orange Ship Building is still alive and growing, due to defense contracts secured by Charles Wilson and his succesor.
To whoever wanted to know about WOS academics. WOS has one of the most respected AP programs in the state for gifted and talented students. Their level of accomplishment is way above most in the state. We even have students from the LCM school district that go to school here, just for this academic program. Dual Enrollment (for college credit) started here in the late 70's. My son graduated last year with 19 hours of college credit under his belt. And he did not even make the top 10% of his class. I think this says a lot for the quality of education here.

Hope this answers some questions.

[X Man]

Old Card,
It is not surpriseing that you continue to find anything you can to try to down WOS. If you will go back through the thread, you will see stats that show most of the construction is taking place in unincoorporated areas. I am the same. While living in WOS school district, I am not in the city limits. WOS is made of many school districts. West Orange, Cove, Bancroft, Stark (which includes Wallace), and even parts of the old Little Cypress district are in the WOS system now. What is "wrong" is that basically, there are very few unincoorporated areas in WOS district, that can be developed because the better places have allready been developed. What is left is agricultural land, that is being used for graze and hay production since the bottom fell out of the prices on rice and soybeans.
It must be frustrating to you to be such a bitter old man.

[Old Cardinal]

To X-Man and like thinkers: I am not a bitter old man at all. I have a great and fullfilling life. X Man, I preceive that you too are one that wants to blame everyone else: one that takes no responsibility and will not take needed steps to clean up the social ills that cause people to flee from your area. Many caring folks that can't move are trying to get their youth into quality home schooling courses. You are bitter because I nor many others across the county will no longer allow you to blame everyone outside your delimma as being the culprits.
I would like nothing more than to see a few of you take responsibility and become a little more industrious, civic-minded and caring.
Seeing the big picture as it really is, it does not bother us at all to be attack by those that are making no effort to rectify the present situation and continue to find some outside source as the culprit for all the tragic decline.

[WOS92]

Yes, we WO-S graduates and residents of Orange are all poor, uneducated rabble. Thanks to the enlightened folks from BC and elsewhere from pointing that out. Clearly the decline in our enrollment has nothing to do with "white flight," as is pointed out by the folks from the school less than five miles away with absolutely no black students, as compared to at least 50 percent at WO-S. I work with a guy who was looking into buying a home in Bridge City. When he visited the HS to inquire about enrolling his kids, they looked at him like he had stepped off of a dump truck covered in sludge. My friend, who is black, finally ended up settling in VIDOR, for God's sake. He was more welcome in VIDOR than he was in BC. Now let's talk about a community with some social ills!
I always love reading about the city that I live in from people who do not live here. Quite frankly, for BC to "thrive" economically does not take a whole lot. Buy your school supplies at the (old school) WalMart, buy your diapers and food at Market Basket and that pretty much covers the major businesses in the area. My sister and brother-in-law moved to BC about a year ago and were stunned by how the peoples' attitudes contrasted with their lifestyles. She described it as "white trash in denial."

16-0, by the way.

[ej2525]

Originally posted by WOS92

I always My sister and brother-in-law moved to BC about a year ago and were stunned by how the peoples' attitudes contrasted with their lifestyles. She described it as "white trash in denial."


Well tell your sister & Bro-in-law "welcome to the trailer park" for me please!!

[wos fan1]

16-0

[WOS92]

EJ - is that what they call the stadium there? I thought it was "Larry Ward Stadium." Fitting, though...

16-0... undefeated even at "The Trailer Park!"

[chaingang]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
To X-Man and like thinkers: I am not a bitter old man at all. I have a great and fullfilling life. X Man, I preceive that you too are one that wants to blame everyone else: one that takes no responsibility and will not take needed steps to clean up the social ills that cause people to flee from your area. Many caring folks that can't move are trying to get their youth into quality home schooling courses. You are bitter because I nor many others across the county will no longer allow you to blame everyone outside your delimma as being the culprits.
I would like nothing more than to see a few of you take responsibility and become a little more industrious, civic-minded and caring.
Seeing the big picture as it really is, it does not bother us at all to be attack by those that are making no effort to rectify the present situation and continue to find some outside source as the culprit for all the tragic decline.

For the love of God people, can we just end this. WOS will never be as good and prosperous as BC. Hell, their Dairy Queen is much better than ours. There aint nothing like living in a town full of hypocrites. And if my spelling is off Old Card, thats cuz I went to WOS:rolleyes:

If you have nothing better to do than make stories up(like you always do) then go take your Centrum Silver and have a Pearl Light in a can to chase it with.:hand:

[WOS92]

That's okay. He missed "dilemma" and "perceive." ;)

[shankbear]

...........crap and bark at the moon. After taking the Geritol.

[3ABirdMan]

As much as you WOS guys hate it when you get lumped together by one definition or another, there are few of us from BC who don't much care for that, either!:rolleyes:

Let's let it end:clap: , be neighbors ;) , hate each other on the field :mad: , and smile and shake hands when meet.:kiss:

My 2 cents........................................

[Old Cardinal]

To WOS92: I have been retired for 8 years and I couldn't care less to go and check out "spell check"
I think there might be hope for someone in your family(your sister). She will probably be putting her children in a BC Intermediate School that had a 97% TAKS score!
Many BC folks once lived in trailers but the difference is that they want to be a participate in the Great American Way of Life like many spread out all around the county. We love having people join our area that want to break the welfare state mentality.

[shankbear]

But back to the news.......football has been scheduled for the upcoming weekend in Southeast Texas. Many pi$$ing and moaning matches will be settled on the football field and not behing some cheap Chinese keyboards. History is what has gotten us all here. We have to live in the present and plan for the future. Now didn't that come in like a cool fresh breeze????

[Gobbla2001]

I think this is a poor subject (no pun I swear)...

I make less than the people in their community make on average, make a post about me...

[wos fan1]

It is, but what do you expect from some people??

[Gobbla2001]

You know what I think the problem is?

I think the people of Orange average a lower income because they work in Bridge City, and the people of Bridge City make more because they work in Orange...

SOMEONE GIVE THE PEOPLE OF ORANGE THEIR JOBS BACK...

Or MAYBE, just MAYBE, there are more single people in Orange, so with just one person in the house of course they average a lower income...

:D

[shankbear]

GOBBLA2001...we are starting a fund raiser for GOB2001. Checks may be directed to the investment firm of OC, to be overseen by WOS92. WOSFAN 1 can forecast the return on the investment.

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by GS#17
Paratrooper, standardized tests are just one measurement, but if the truth be told, all it is really good at is quantifying the ability of a student to take a standardized test -- nothing more, nothing less. .

Lot more to standardized test than knowing how to bubble in an answer. If you want to be a doctor, lawyer, teacher, coach, plant manager whatever you got to know how to read, interpet, deduct, infer and yes take standardized test to get your license to do so.

Do people fair better who have been taught test taking skills? Of course! But if you don't know Newton described the Law's of Motion and what they are about it doesn't matter whether it is verbal, kinestitic or a standardized test you haven't learned science.

[shankbear]

what he said......

[Cat22]

Let me just say this.


Good Luck to both teams this Friday. Represent 24-3A well. I'll be pulling for both of you!

[Hindsight2020]

i wish there was a way to get the information to relate test scores with the number of students in the special education program that didn't take the test....... it seems most schools in this area will put students in the spec ed program just so they can't take the test, when in reality they are very capable of taking the test.

i was in all honor classes at wo-s. the group of teachers at this school are great. you have many of the same teachers here that have been here for years and all of a sudden the test scores go down. i seriously think it has to do with this generation of kids.

i come from a family of teachers and some of the stories i hear from them amaze me. it is not like it used to be, and i think you can say that about everywhere in texas.

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by Hindsight2020
i wish there was a way to get the information to relate test scores with the number of students in the special education program that didn't take the test....... it seems most schools in this area will put students in the spec ed program just so they can't take the test, when in reality they are very capable of taking the test.

i was in all honor classes at wo-s. the group of teachers at this school are great. you have many of the same teachers here that have been here for years and all of a sudden the test scores go down. i seriously think it has to do with this generation of kids.

i come from a family of teachers and some of the stories i hear from them amaze me. it is not like it used to be, and i think you can say that about everywhere in texas.

Well with NCLB in effect only 1% of the kids can not take the standardized test. Texas is in hot water with Washington for not meeting those requirements last year and have a waiver of 3% (I believe) this year. No where to "hide" the special education students anymore. If a district had too many kids not take the test you better know they are making efforts right now that that doesn't happen again this year..trust me.

[RBARKER]

Originally posted by Hupernikomen
Newton described the Law's of Motion and what they are about it doesn't matter whether it is verbal, kinestitic or a standardized test you haven't learned science.

Newton!!! No wonder they win so many football games.

[Hindsight2020]

Originally posted by RBARKER
Newton!!! No wonder they win so many football games.

lol

[WOS92]

I think this is a poor subject (no pun I swear)... I make less than the people in their community make on average, make a post about me...

It's good to know that your worth as a human being is directly related to three things: income, skin color and test scores. Thanks for filling us in, BC!

16-0... If ya can't beat em, try to degrade the reputation of the entire community by one ignorant, generalized rant.

[shankbear]

Don't cast the net too wide. Most folks in BC are great. Some take themselves too seriously. Some don't give a rats bootie. Some are just plain dumb as a rock. Everytown USA.

[WOS1]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
To WOS92: I have been retired for 8 years and I couldn't care less to go and check out "spell check"
I think there might be hope for someone in your family(your sister). She will probably be putting her children in a BC Intermediate School that had a 97% TAKS score!
Many BC folks once lived in trailers but the difference is that they want to be a participate in the Great American Way of Life like many spread out all around the county. We love having people join our area that want to break the welfare state mentality.

As long as they are white...