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3afan
10-26-2005, 05:11 AM
Not my fault
After blowing Game 3, Garner jumps ship on Astros
Posted: Wednesday October 26, 2005 4:35AM; Updated: Wednesday October 26, 2005 5:28AM

HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros played their first home World Series game in their existence, grinded through the most time-consuming game in World Series history, exhausted their bullpen, tied the game in the eighth inning when they trailed by a run with nobody on base and were down to their final four outs, used everybody on the bench except their backup catcher, and had their starting pitcher for tonight's game throwing hard in the bullpen at a quarter after one in the morning.

And what does their manager, Phil Garner, do in the first moments after the White Sox punched them in the gut by beating them in the 14th inning of Game 3, 7-5?

He rips his team.

Beautiful. Mind you, the guy says nothing to his team after the game. But he does march into the official interview room and drop these bombs for the media:

"Absolute rotten hitting.''

"We might have played 40 innings and it didn't look like we were going to get a runner across the bag.''

"It's embarrassing to play like this in front of our hometown.''

"I'm really ticked off.''

Way to bail on your team, Mr. Manager.

Not once did he credit the Chicago pitchers, especially the relievers, for holding his hitters to a 1-for-33 showing after Jason Lane hit his home run that wasn't in the fourth inning. (The umpires blew another call. Please label it as evidence No. 463 that the commissioner of baseball needs to conduct a full review of postseason umpire assignments as soon as this World Series is over.)

Not once did the manager accept any blame or responsibility himself. But remember, this is a guy who showed up Brad Ausmus in the 10th inning by throwing a public fit when Ausmus flied out on a pitch when Orlando Palmeiro had second base stolen. And it's the same guy who showed up his entire team by flinging a chair against the dugout wall when Geoff Blum hit his game-breaking home run in the 14th.

Way to show you're in control, skipper.

Remember when the Yankees beat the Mariners in Seattle in two close games in the 2000 ALCS? Then-Seattle manager Lou Piniella went to the interview room and promised the series would come back to Seattle. It didn't, but the manager took the focus off his players and at the same time tried to create a sense of confidence for them.

Garner did the exact opposite. He jumped ship. Never can I remember a manager deserting his team with the stakes so high.

This just in, Phil: your team has not hit all season. You finished 11th in a bad National League in runs scored this year. The Arizona Diamondbacks scored more runs than your team. Do not be surprised when your team does not hit against the best pitching staff in the American League. (Actually, Skip, your team is scoring more runs per game in the World Series, 4.66, than it did during the regular season, 3.76.)

But, hey, enough about the hitting. What about the game the manager of the Astros had? You know your team can't hit, but what did you do when Chris Burke reached third base with one out in the ninth inning? Nothing. No squeeze play. Not with Craig Biggio batting and then not with Willy Taveras batting -- both of whom are excellent bunters. If you are having so much trouble getting a run home with a hit, if you are really so "ticked off" waiting for a hit, why not make something happen with a squeeze attempt?

Where was the manager in the fifth inning when Roy Oswalt was allowed to throw a career-high 46 pitches and blow a 4-0 lead? Not once did the manager even come out of the dugout to give the pitcher a breather. Not once did he get the pitcher out of the inning as batter after batter reached base.
Where was the manager in the 13th inning, when Jose Vizcaino led off with a walk? Instead of advancing the runner to second with one out and the heart of his lineup coming up, Garner took the bunt off after the first pitch to Biggio and let Biggio swing away. Biggio struck out.

And where was the manager in the 14th inning, when, after the home run, he allowed a very shaky Ezequiel Astacio to go single, single, walk, walk -- pushing across a huge insurance run? Astacio faced seven batters and retired one of them, and that on a bullet of grounder snared by third baseman Morgan Ensberg. Only when the game went to 7-5 did Garner get Astacio out of there.

Where was the manager in Game 1, when he stubbornly let Jeff Bagwell, a guy who had not started a game since May, into his starting lineup on more sentimental reasons than practical ones? What about letting Mike Lamb, a .179 hitter against lefties, whiff against lefty Neal Cotts in the eighth inning of that game in what stands as the most crucial at-bat of the series? What about letting mop-up man Russ Springer pitch the ninth inning of that game, allowing another huge tack-on run, instead of the much more reliable and rested Dan Wheeler? What about not getting the ball that Jermaine Dye fouled off in Game 2 -- it was ruled a hit-by-pitch -- and insisting on getting a conference of umpires to rethink the call by home plate umpire Jeff Nelson?

Funny, but Garner mentioned nothing about the manager in his postgame rant. Silly me. I thought ballclubs won as a team and lost as a team. I thought a team that just invested more time and effort in a losing cause than any team in the history of the World Series and now stands on the brink of elimination could at least count on the support of the person who makes out the lineup card and runs the game.

But now I know: it had nothing to do with the manager. The manager wants you to know it was all the hitters' fault. The manager wants you to know that he is really ticked off.

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/10/26/astros.game3/1.html)

wos fan1
10-26-2005, 05:28 AM
Well i'm pissed to. When you can't hit you don't deserve to win. At least they finally made it to the big dance though.

hookandladder
10-26-2005, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by 3afan
Not my fault
After blowing Game 3, Garner jumps ship on Astros
Posted: Wednesday October 26, 2005 4:35AM; Updated: Wednesday October 26, 2005 5:28AM

HOUSTON -- The Houston Astros played their first home World Series game in their existence, grinded through the most time-consuming game in World Series history, exhausted their bullpen, tied the game in the eighth inning when they trailed by a run with nobody on base and were down to their final four outs, used everybody on the bench except their backup catcher, and had their starting pitcher for tonight's game throwing hard in the bullpen at a quarter after one in the morning.

And what does their manager, Phil Garner, do in the first moments after the White Sox punched them in the gut by beating them in the 14th inning of Game 3, 7-5?

He rips his team.

Beautiful. Mind you, the guy says nothing to his team after the game. But he does march into the official interview room and drop these bombs for the media:

"Absolute rotten hitting.''

"We might have played 40 innings and it didn't look like we were going to get a runner across the bag.''

"It's embarrassing to play like this in front of our hometown.''

"I'm really ticked off.''

Way to bail on your team, Mr. Manager.

Not once did he credit the Chicago pitchers, especially the relievers, for holding his hitters to a 1-for-33 showing after Jason Lane hit his home run that wasn't in the fourth inning. (The umpires blew another call. Please label it as evidence No. 463 that the commissioner of baseball needs to conduct a full review of postseason umpire assignments as soon as this World Series is over.)

Not once did the manager accept any blame or responsibility himself. But remember, this is a guy who showed up Brad Ausmus in the 10th inning by throwing a public fit when Ausmus flied out on a pitch when Orlando Palmeiro had second base stolen. And it's the same guy who showed up his entire team by flinging a chair against the dugout wall when Geoff Blum hit his game-breaking home run in the 14th.

Way to show you're in control, skipper.

Remember when the Yankees beat the Mariners in Seattle in two close games in the 2000 ALCS? Then-Seattle manager Lou Piniella went to the interview room and promised the series would come back to Seattle. It didn't, but the manager took the focus off his players and at the same time tried to create a sense of confidence for them.

Garner did the exact opposite. He jumped ship. Never can I remember a manager deserting his team with the stakes so high.

This just in, Phil: your team has not hit all season. You finished 11th in a bad National League in runs scored this year. The Arizona Diamondbacks scored more runs than your team. Do not be surprised when your team does not hit against the best pitching staff in the American League. (Actually, Skip, your team is scoring more runs per game in the World Series, 4.66, than it did during the regular season, 3.76.)

But, hey, enough about the hitting. What about the game the manager of the Astros had? You know your team can't hit, but what did you do when Chris Burke reached third base with one out in the ninth inning? Nothing. No squeeze play. Not with Craig Biggio batting and then not with Willy Taveras batting -- both of whom are excellent bunters. If you are having so much trouble getting a run home with a hit, if you are really so "ticked off" waiting for a hit, why not make something happen with a squeeze attempt?

Where was the manager in the fifth inning when Roy Oswalt was allowed to throw a career-high 46 pitches and blow a 4-0 lead? Not once did the manager even come out of the dugout to give the pitcher a breather. Not once did he get the pitcher out of the inning as batter after batter reached base.
Where was the manager in the 13th inning, when Jose Vizcaino led off with a walk? Instead of advancing the runner to second with one out and the heart of his lineup coming up, Garner took the bunt off after the first pitch to Biggio and let Biggio swing away. Biggio struck out.

And where was the manager in the 14th inning, when, after the home run, he allowed a very shaky Ezequiel Astacio to go single, single, walk, walk -- pushing across a huge insurance run? Astacio faced seven batters and retired one of them, and that on a bullet of grounder snared by third baseman Morgan Ensberg. Only when the game went to 7-5 did Garner get Astacio out of there.

Where was the manager in Game 1, when he stubbornly let Jeff Bagwell, a guy who had not started a game since May, into his starting lineup on more sentimental reasons than practical ones? What about letting Mike Lamb, a .179 hitter against lefties, whiff against lefty Neal Cotts in the eighth inning of that game in what stands as the most crucial at-bat of the series? What about letting mop-up man Russ Springer pitch the ninth inning of that game, allowing another huge tack-on run, instead of the much more reliable and rested Dan Wheeler? What about not getting the ball that Jermaine Dye fouled off in Game 2 -- it was ruled a hit-by-pitch -- and insisting on getting a conference of umpires to rethink the call by home plate umpire Jeff Nelson?

Funny, but Garner mentioned nothing about the manager in his postgame rant. Silly me. I thought ballclubs won as a team and lost as a team. I thought a team that just invested more time and effort in a losing cause than any team in the history of the World Series and now stands on the brink of elimination could at least count on the support of the person who makes out the lineup card and runs the game.

But now I know: it had nothing to do with the manager. The manager wants you to know it was all the hitters' fault. The manager wants you to know that he is really ticked off.

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/10/26/astros.game3/1.html)

I agree totally, White Sox manager coaches the old fashion way, stealing, moving runners over with the bunt and hit and run. Also Bagwell does not deserve to be in the lineup, you have guy's on the bench who have help this team get to where they are. Now their in the World Series against a really good team and you insert Bagwell in the DH spot. Not bunting runners over in key situations kills me to even watch the game, it's like he makes to much money to make him bunt. If you listen to the announcers they say he's not here to bunt he's your RBI guy. Best quote ever
when Augie Garrido was asked about bunting so much at Texas, his response I'd Bunt Babe Ruth.

Johnnypaycheck
10-26-2005, 07:30 AM
"when the crap starts stinkin, the rats start running!"

this is the same manager that made all the RIGHT moves to get them here.

VWG
10-26-2005, 07:51 AM
When Burke was on third after stealing, and only one out.... they should have got him across home plate. Taveras K'd to make it two outs, and well everyone knows you've got to make contact with the ball and get the runner across.
There were several mistakes by the Astros.

BlueBlood
10-26-2005, 07:53 AM
Bring back the guy with the Hawaiian shirts or let Garner's wife coach the team.

scrub c
10-26-2005, 08:43 AM
Garner was in the right on this one.

he should have went in the lockerroom and chewed some butt first then went to the press room.

Houston Astros, 2nd best team in the league.

AggieJohn
10-26-2005, 08:50 AM
garner was wrong, he should of sent some of those baserunners on steals and moved them over, i know there were a couple of times we got base knocks that it just moved up the runner and we could of been more agressive on the bases.....i think it's garners fault...i think that astacio shouldn't of come in either..i think that wandy is the obvious pick there......

Ranger05
10-26-2005, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by hookandladder
I agree totally, White Sox manager coaches the old fashion way, stealing, moving runners over with the bunt and hit and run. Also Bagwell does not deserve to be in the lineup, you have guy's on the bench who have help this team get to where they are. Now their in the World Series against a really good team and you insert Bagwell in the DH spot. Not bunting runners over in key situations kills me to even watch the game, it's like he makes to much money to make him bunt. If you listen to the announcers they say he's not here to bunt he's your RBI guy. Best quote ever
when Augie Garrido was asked about bunting so much at Texas, his response I'd Bunt Babe Ruth. i have to disagree bagwell does to deserve to be in the dh spot he has been there for 15 years i think he deserves to be the dh, plus during the season he had some key hits the contributed to astros win and if he didnt step up and get those hits where would the astros more than likely be right now ON THE COUCH watching the st. louis cardinals play for the WS AGAIN.

Phil C
10-26-2005, 09:21 AM
The experts said Chicago was going to win even though I don't think they expected a sweep. This series is over. Houston still is Choke City and is not the Pittsburgh Pirates of 1979 that came from 0 - 3 to win the world series. Also, Chicago has outcoached Houston also which is obvious why. Well at least they made it to the world series once in 44 years. They showed a baby at the game asleep. He will probably be in his mid forties before Houston gets this chance again. Also to the great granny that held the sign up in Chicago that said I waited 92 years for this. Congratulations on finally getting it but keep the sign for your great grandchilden especially if you have one four years old because it will be that long a wait again. Yankees and George will see to that.

venomous tat2
10-26-2005, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by Johnnypaycheck
"when the crap starts stinkin, the rats start running!"

this is the same manager that made all the RIGHT moves to get them here.

And right now he's not making the RIGHT moves to keep them in it

AggieJohn
10-26-2005, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by venomous tat2
And right now he's not making the RIGHT moves to keep them in it

he's frustrated, but i think if anyone was to blame for that loss, it's him not giving his playes the go ahead in some situations

Maroon87
10-26-2005, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by Phil C
The experts said Chicago was going to win even though I don't think they expected a sweep. This series is over. Houston still is Choke City and is not the Pittsburgh Pirates of 1979 that came from 0 - 3 to win the world series. Also, Chicago has outcoached Houston also which is obvious why. Well at least they made it to the world series once in 44 years. They showed a baby at the game asleep. He will probably be in his mid forties before Houston gets this chance again. Also to the great granny that held the sign up in Chicago that said I waited 92 years for this. Congratulations on finally getting it but keep the sign for your great grandchilden especially if you have one four years old because it will be that long a wait again. Yankees and George will see to that.

Optimistic as usual, huh Phil?

District303aPastPlayer
10-26-2005, 10:52 AM
no team, other than the Boston Red Sox in 2004 have ever come back from an 0-3 defecit to win a best of Seven series Phil... just a little fyi

ro_tex_solja
10-26-2005, 10:59 AM
how can anyone say the astros arent good, im not blamin the astros for anything, the white sox are just that good of a team, and really have some awesome hitters, hopefully they can get one win tonight and take one game at a time

ro_tex_solja
10-26-2005, 10:59 AM
except for the fact that they left 85 people on base in last nights loss....lol...that really sucked

ej2525
10-26-2005, 11:05 AM
It has been a real close series over all with the Stros coming up a little short in each game. The series could easily be 3-0 Houston given the coulda-shoulda-woulda theory.

KTJ
10-26-2005, 11:10 AM
I'm not an Astros fan and I don't really care who wins, but they played like crap last night.

They were practically giving the game to Chicago.

Maroon87
10-26-2005, 11:22 AM
The one situation where I would second guess Garner was in the 9th...Burke on third, one out, Taveras at bat. Hello? Squeeze bunt, anyone?:mad:

Having said that, I feel that no matter how this series turns out, this might be the tip of the iceberg for the Astros. There will be more Fall Classics in their immediate future, I think.

venomous tat2
10-26-2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by KTJ
I'm not an Astros fan and I don't really care who wins, but they played like crap last night.

They were practically giving the game to Chicago.

If you look back at the other games they were in a position to win them all and the sox's are good don't get me wrong, but you just can't keep squandering your chances to win. If you are gonna lose do it being aggresive, not sitting on your hands.

Bandera YaYa
10-26-2005, 11:44 AM
I was so dang frustrated...we started out soooo well.....the Sox are just a smart, smart team......can't cry over spilled milk.....let's get it tonite!!! I STILL BELIEVE!!! :clap: :clap: :D

Gobbla2001
10-26-2005, 12:46 PM
Could be a motivational thing...

The Sox have good pitching, there is no doubt about that... But we can hit on 'em every other time except when we have runners in scoring position... can't argue with Garner on that one... the only thing I would have done differently was I would have flipped-out during the NLCS, so that would have been over with by now...

As for stealing home to win the game I believe there were two outs each time a runner was on 3rd... the Sox were looking for the bunt and were going to stop it... if the 'Stros would have been down 6-3 or something or up 5-3, there would have been a chance of them taking out the runner at 1st/2nd whatever... but in those situations, with one run ending the game, the bunt defense was going to be directed at nothing else but home plate...

I like small ball, don't get me wrong, but you might as well try to get a hit instead of an almost guaranteed out in that situation... It was the right call I believe...

LogieJoeBean001
10-26-2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Maroon87
The one situation where I would second guess Garner was in the 9th...Burke on third, one out, Taveras at bat. Hello? Squeeze bunt, anyone?:mad:



My sentiments exactly

UPanIN
10-26-2005, 02:00 PM
He should be upset at the players and you should be too.

It is and was terrible to have that many chances and not get one run across.

But we live in a world of make everyone feel good about themselves. You can't say anything. These are grown men... if they can't take a little criticism then take your millions and go home. Home may be where they're going more sooner than later.

I hope they come all the way back and can say this was the turning point.

Tackle75
10-26-2005, 07:53 PM
I agree with Phil too. id be embarrassed and ashamed too. Its not like Houston is that great of a sports town.

And for the fans to be behind the Astros as much as they are, is quite frankly amazing.

So yeah the fans deserve to see the best effort possible from the Astros, so yeah id be ashamed too if I was Garner.

But realize Garner was yanked straight from the game to the press conference, he wasnt given the 15 minute cooling off period, being as it was so late at night.

So he was gonna say some things he might not have , had he had time to cool.
Give the guy a break hes a pretty good manager, and gotten the astros to where they are today,

Which quite frankly in April, May and even June I would never have thought they would have been here.

AggieJohn
10-26-2005, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by Tackle75
I agree with Phil too. id be embarrassed and ashamed too. Its not like Houston is that great of a sports town.

And for the fans to be behind the Astros as much as they are, is quite frankly amazing.

So yeah the fans deserve to see the best effort possible from the Astros, so yeah id be ashamed too if I was Garner.

But realize Garner was yanked straight from the game to the press conference, he wasnt given the 15 minute cooling off period, being as it was so late at night.

So he was gonna say some things he might not have , had he had time to cool.
Give the guy a break hes a pretty good manager, and gotten the astros to where they are today,

Which quite frankly in April, May and even June I would never have thought they would have been here.
good post kenny