3A BASEBALL talk projections--a change of thought for a moment.. [Archive]

Old Cardinal

10-23-2005, 10:36 AM

Lufkin Hudson Hornets don't play football they concentrate on Baseball while; likewise, Lufkin Pollock Central concentates their emphasis on Softball. Kind of weird that the UIL allows another Lufkin team to get all the football players.
The Hudson Hornets must be recognized as a contender this year. They have some great transfers coming in, as usual, but the core of the team returns.
Brandon Belt is one of the best Pitchers and hitters in Texas. Other stars include: Seniors-- Matt Murphy, Nick Brasuell, Jimmy Brantner, Justin Nichols, Tanner Hines, and Pete Peters.
Junior, Nick Rhodes and Justin Nichols will back up Belts(their ace).
I just doesn't seem fair that some schools don't participate in major sports to concentrate their efforts on one sport. Coaches Glen Kimble and John Courtney are veteran BB people and many transfer to Lufkin Hudson as young aspirants to get to play for them.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Tell us about your BB teams upcoming team?

Hupernikomen

10-23-2005, 02:55 PM

Hupernikomen

10-23-2005, 02:56 PM

As far as them having an advantage I am sure it is a big advantage to have off-season and athletic period that concentrates on one sport, but they are allowed organized practices until everyone else is also.

Old Cardinal

10-23-2005, 03:16 PM

I agree with everything you said...yet in actual reality everyone who wants to switch around; can end up in the school District they want to--neither one of us are naive. Everyone has an Aunt to live with when they decide to switch.
It is a tremendous advantage--why do they allow some schools to "totally specialize" within the UIL?
Some areas are laxed and some are strict on kids switching schools between given Districts. There is no statewide standard in reality.

Hupernikomen

10-23-2005, 03:20 PM

you can't make a community play football if they don't want to. matter of fact some places need to quit playing IMO.

Old Cardinal

10-23-2005, 03:35 PM

Huper, now that is funny! There are times when we wonder just why a given bunch are playing a weak sport for them at all.
As to the question about transfers, that seems to be an ongoing issue. Many try to get an upperhand.... Parents offered lucrative jobs to get good young athletes coming their way etc:
My intent was not to dwell on this side of the subject: I was hoping to get feedback of BB team projections around 3A Texas teams.
Can you tell us about the BB forecast up your way please?

Hupernikomen

10-23-2005, 03:41 PM

Forecast around here is Barbers Hill will be good as usual.

injuredinmelee

10-23-2005, 03:51 PM

Abilene Wylie was down a littlebit last spring basball wise but I think martin will have them ready to go this time around. they were very young and inexperienced.

maroonpirate04

10-23-2005, 04:33 PM

After football season for the Sinton Pirates the next big thing is baseball can't wait til spring when 3A Power Sinton enters "The Field Of Dreams" :D

AggiesAreWe

10-23-2005, 07:11 PM

I thought basketball was the next sport, not baseball. Doesn't Bridge City have a basketball team? I know Hudson does, along with other sports besides baseball. They just choose not to play football for whatever reason. They are hardly a one sport school, just successful in that one.

mwynn05

10-23-2005, 07:13 PM

They're a big basketball school as well

VWG

10-23-2005, 07:17 PM

About the transfer issue. I know that around Weatherford, which has one high school (5A), there is a small town Brock that only has basketball and baseball as their "main sports" for boys athletics. Their girls basketball team is very good, usually making it deep in the playoffs every year. There have been some cases where "transferring due to athletic reasons" have come up with kids going to Brock. Most of them have had to sit out a year and then rejoin the athletics program the following school year.
They currently play at the 2A level.

Tiger90

10-23-2005, 09:45 PM

Go ahead and mark your calendars now. In 4 years the most sought after pitcher will be from Silsbee. They have a 6'3" 14 year old freshman pitching right at the 90mph mark. He was right at 6' and 85 mph this time last year. He has been going to several university camps (UT).

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 01:16 PM

Pitchers Kevin Angelle and Broc Haymon are working hard to perfect their techniques on premium select team ball; having been instrumental in playing all the way to the 17 & U National Championship finals. Haymon pitched the game that lost in the final but it was his first assignment for a full game after major surgery on his pitching arm. Kevin is set to go to TX A&M and Haymon can go anywhere he wants.

The surprise BC will spring is a Sophomore Catcher, Casey Jackson, who catchers for the premuim Houston Heat select team. Last year they put him in his first HS game(while B. J. Myers switched to Pitch) and he promptly knocked the first ball thrown well over the fence! Casey is big for a young 15 year old at 5' 11" and solid 220 pounds. He catches to help out at The Zone under Sam Moore with assorted Pitchers. The Zone is now recognized across American as one of the best training places for aspiring serious BB players. Casey and Shandi Conner, BCs Sophomore softball Pitcher work out together also. He has said that Shandi can make a ball do things that no HS or College BB pitcher can do! She helps him fine-tune. It's a good thing BC has a Junior All State Catcher(Christina Jacques) to catch those jitter-bugging speeding softballs. It is interesting, Emile Kosh a 12 year old on the National Champ 12 & U Beaumont Blast team will follow in Jacques steps--she is the best 12 year old at that position that I have observed.
Casey Jackson has the potential to be the best to come along at BC and that is saying a lot. HS Catchers from the past include--Kim Bryant, Eric Johansson('92 4A Finalist Team), Steve Wooster( State Finalist team), B. J. Myers, Wayne Brint, & several others.

BB is the first love of many BC football players but they are not playing Select team BB: they are instead helping out being undefeated at present in 3A HS football.
Ace seasoned players coming back are:
Seniors--Brett Day, Cody Sparks, Randy Jennings, Derrick Coleman, A. J. Hecker, Kevin Angelle, Broc Haymon
Juniors--Troy Bolton, Chase Warner, Johnny Dishon, & Jeff Stringer

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 01:33 PM

ttt

3afan

10-24-2005, 01:36 PM

Maroon87

10-24-2005, 01:53 PM

We'll only have one position player back from last year's team, 2B Wes Callihan. We'll also have half of our starting rotation back, Ryan Duke and Sean Hoelscher. Other than that, there will be a lot of new names & faces. Winning a second consecutive 4A state title will be a tall order.

The good news is, our baseball field will be getting new lights soon...:cool:

hookandladder

10-24-2005, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
ttt

OC- National Tournaments are overrated. My son plays on a Select Major Level Team that played in a National Tournament this last year, yes there were some quaility teams their but overall talent was not that great. Their are so many different National Tournaments that they get watered down. We will continue to play select ball,it is definitely better than Little League. I'am just saying you need to get off your high horse about National Tournaments.

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 01:58 PM

Of course they are not L.I.S.D. but there is a lot of transfers back and forth to the various school districts--as always. Are they transfering to play ball are its just another totally different reason?
We are not talking conspiracy; just pragmatic reality as to who gravitates to where according to selected sports buildup emphasis.
How do you know enough about the Lufkin area? I happen to have great contacts up that way.

3afan

10-24-2005, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by hookandladder
OC- National Tournaments are overrated. My son plays on a Select Major Level Team that played in a National Tournament this last year, yes there were some quaility teams their but overall talent was not that great. Their are so many different National Tournaments that they get watered down. We will continue to play select ball,it is definitely better than Little League. I'am just saying you need to get off your high horse about National Tournaments.

I could not agree more - the same goes for softball. There are so many club and "select" teams as well as tournaments. In softball you have ASA, USSSA, USFA, NFA and more. each has their own state/regional/national tournaments. and most of those are dominated by the local teams depending on where they are held.

example - USSSA 13 & Under World Series in Garland this past August ... probably 80% of the teams were from Texas, 50% from the DFW area. some "World Series" ...... (by the way I called the title game in that one - got to get my own plug in when i can!)

3afan

10-24-2005, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
... How do you know enough about the Lufkin area? I happen to have great contacts up that way.

I dont claim to know anything about the Lufkin area, just pointing out some facts that some may not know ...

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 02:20 PM

To Hook: I agree with you that if your son did not play for a premium team such as the Sundevils that won a PREMIUM Nationals Tournament and followed last year as Runnerup; I would agree with you he ought to play LL.

I consider respectively that you are totally wrong on the best best select teams in the nation. The boys on this particular team(Sundevils) are also the stars of all the HS teams all thru our area. You can poo-poo their abilities all you want but they are most all getting scholarship to major colleges to play baseball. Somebody-- knowledgeable college people think they have merit as baseball players. The proof is in the puddin, so to speak.

hookandladder

10-24-2005, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by 3afan
I could not agree more - the same goes for softball. There are so many club and "select" teams as well as tournaments. In softball you have ASA, USSSA, USFA, NFA and more. each has their own state/regional/national tournaments. and most of those are dominated by the local teams depending on where they are held.

example - USSSA 13 & Under World Series in Garland this past August ... probably 80% of the teams were from Texas, 50% from the DFW area. some "World Series" ...... (by the way I called the title game in that one - got to get my own plug in when i can!)

Softball is way more watered down than baseball. I have witnessed many of these so called select tournaments and the quaility of play is not much better than littlle league. There are a few quaility teams out their but the majority of teams are not very good.

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 02:43 PM

To Hook, I cannot convince you differently but I know one team that was qualified 14 & U all most all their players(freshman) were All District or Honorable mention on assorted mostly HS playoff teams in all classifications.

I sit by Coaches/Scouts at many Major Tournaments for girls and they all are there because the cream-of-the-crop are playing year round select on the PREMIUM teams that climb the brackets toward the top. I will agree I see some bad startup team attempts but the nameplate teams of different ages--Houston Power, New Orleans VooDoo, Blast, Peppers, etc: get the girls in position for scholarships.
What do you think? the girls that star in HS don't play Select on the better teams across America--you are totally wrong! That is why the college Coaching know their names so well and attend the premium tournaments.
You have made derogotory statements about the 18 & U AFA in Beaumont--do you realize that the lions' share of the high bracket team players are already committed to Div. I schools, or Red Shirted, or Playing as Freshman.
You are blinded by your on pre-set paradigm! You wish you were right but you are not...

3afan

10-24-2005, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
What do you think? the girls that star in HS don't play Select on the better teams across America--you are totally wrong!

of course they do ..... no one said that ....

hookandladder

10-24-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
I cannot convice you differently but I know one team that was qualified 14 & U all most all their players(freshman) were All District or Honorable mention on assorted mostly HS playoff teams in all classifications.

I sit by Coaches/Scouts at many Major Tournaments for girls and they all are there because the cream-of-the-crop are playing year round select on the PREMIUM teams that climb the brackets toward the top. I will agree I see some bad startup team attempts but the nameplate teams of different ages--Houston Power, New Orleans VooDoo, Blast, Peppers, etc: get the girls in position for scholarships.
What do you think? the girls that star in HS don't play Select on the better teams across America--you are totally wrong! That is why the college Coaching know their names so well and attend the premium tournaments.
You have made derogotory statements about the 18 & U ASA in Beaumont--do you realize that the lions' share of the high bracket team players are already committed to Div. I schools and Red Shirted or Playing as Freshman.
You are blinded by your on pre-set paradigm! You wish you were right but you are not...

OC- I have played college baseball and been around many College and Pro Scouts, two of my college friends are Pro Scouts. One is very high up in the Reds organization,they both agree that the thing they hate the most is when they go to a high school or select game to look at a player and some guy comes up to them and talks their ear off. Listening to your post you have to be that guy.

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 03:13 PM

To 3A fan--I cannot believe that you made THAT post about USSSA, it shows a lot about your Softball knowledge.....USSSA Girls is SLOW PITCH which is not Select ball of any kind. It is also RECREATIONAL Ball which is not select of any kind. Yes they have a Recreational National Tournament it will be at Magnolia Fields, Canencro, LA July 30-31 2005. BC and OF have a Recreational team that will play in Recreational Tournaments--but that has nothing to do with the select teams that have, say-- one player from each given town.
I don't think your jelly has jelled enough to be making proclaimations about softball period.

3afan

10-24-2005, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
You have made derogotory statements about the 18 & U ASA in Beaumont--

by the way OC, i hope this is not addressed to me -- i challenge you to find a post where i have made any type of (serious) derogAtory statements against any team/kid.

3afan

10-24-2005, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
To 3A fan--I cannot believe that you made THAT post about USSSA, it shows a lot about your Softball knowledge.....USSSA Girls is SLOW PITCH which is not Select ball of any kind. It is also RECREATIONALl Ball which is not select of any kind. Yes they have a Recreational National Tournament it will be at Magnolia Fields, Canencro, LA July 30-31 2005. BC and OF have a Recreational team that will be there--but that has notheing to do with the select teams that have say-- one player from a given town.
I don't think your jelly has jelled enough to be making proclaimations about softball period.

OC, U-trip has fast pitch ... they have state and national tournaments just like the others. i am a fast pitch umpire - have worked TASO (7 playoff games including a 5A regional final this past UIL season), ASA, USFA (state tournament final) and USSSA (world series final, 2 state tournament finals, numerous "college look" tournaments) so i think i know the difference between fast and slow pitch. here is the USSSA fast pitch web site - CLICK (http://www.usssa.com/sports/Home.asp?Sport=16)

In general, I believe, USSSA fast pitch is more North Texas whereas AFA/NFA are South Texas ... ASA is more statewide ... not exclusively but predominantly

i'll refrain from any personal attacks ... believe me my jelly is plenty jelled ;)

hookandladder

10-24-2005, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by 3afan
OC, U-trip has fast pitch ... they have state and national tournaments just like the others. i am a fast pitch umpire - have worked TASO (7 playoff games including a 5A regional final this past UIL season), ASA, USFA and USSSA so i think i know the difference between fast and slow pitch. here is the USSSA fast pitch web site - CLICK (http://www.usssa.com/sports/Home.asp?Sport=16)

USSSA fast pitch is more North Texas whereas AFA/NFA are South Texas ... ASA is all over ... not exclusively but predominantly

My son plays USSSA baseball as well. Very well organized. The Teams and Rosters are posted on the web-site and also your team ranking.

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 04:35 PM

Sorry I made the mistake in bragging about kids that I admire and for including Select team activities of which I know they are very proud of their personal accomplishments.
To 3Afan, I was not referring to you as talking very derogatory about certain youth, you seem to be a Gentleman--I was talking about a long term problem of statements by Hook and Ladder about youth. I have had a tough time with dealing with that for some time--but I too will refrain from personal attacks...Glad you two know more about baseball/Softball than anyone else--but what does those "big me-little-you" statements have to do about presenting or even bragging on kids that I admire?
Looks like you could tell us about kids or teams that are trying to get better at sports in any way that they preceive as productive. That was what this post was all about.
That was the intent of the post that I made about HS baseball on Select teams that prompted the attack on premium select team participation.

This could have been a good informative thread about upcoming baseball of all kinds.

Astrosdawg07

10-24-2005, 04:38 PM

2006 Jasper Bulldogs = 2005 Houston Astros...

NateDawg39

10-24-2005, 04:40 PM

Decatur is going to have its usual success in district with most of the team back from a regional team last year...well our big sticks anyways:D We have a veryyyyy verrrrryyyyy good pitcher who proved as a freshman he had what it took in the playoffs...and he has worked on his arm alot this summer.

LH Panther Mom

10-24-2005, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
This could have been a good informative thread about upcoming baseball of all kinds.

You're right, it could've been. IMO, it started going downhill when certain hints of school improprieties were posted.

Old Cardinal

10-24-2005, 04:49 PM

Will someone from Orangefield tell us about the growing program over there. I follow it closely but maybe someone else could cover the in & outs better.

3afan

10-24-2005, 04:54 PM

FYI - most (good) umpires really can't speak in depth or in detail about specific players ... its not good for your game to know alot about them or even worse, to know them. about all i know is what i read in the DMN and thats fine with me.

hookandladder

10-25-2005, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
Sorry I made the mistake in bragging about kids that I admire and for including Select team activities of which I know they are very proud of their personal accomplishments.
To 3Afan, I was not referring to you as talking very derogatory about certain youth, you seem to be a Gentleman--I was talking about a long term problem of statements by Hook and Ladder about youth. I have had a tough time with dealing with that for some time--but I too will refrain from personal attacks...Glad you two know more about baseball/Softball than anyone else--but what does those "big me-little-you" statements have to do about presenting or even bragging on kids that I admire?
Looks like you could tell us about kids or teams that are trying to get better at sports in any way that they preceive as productive. That was what this post was all about.
That was the intent of the post that I made about HS baseball on Select teams that prompted the attack on premium select team participation.

This could have been a good informative thread about upcoming baseball of all kinds.

OC-I think the so called attacked are directed at you personally, not the the Kids. You seem to take everything as if we are downgrading your area, that is not the case. Everyone on this web-site is proud of the school and area they represent. Just present the facts.

VWG

10-25-2005, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by NateDawg39
Decatur is going to have its usual success in district with most of the team back from a regional team last year...well our big sticks anyways:D We have a veryyyyy verrrrryyyyy good pitcher who proved as a freshman he had what it took in the playoffs...and he has worked on his arm alot this summer.

Decatur had a freshman catcher a few years ago, and he had a pretty good stick. Is he still around, or did he graduate? Maybe his last name was Staley or Stucey or something like that?
How many "baseball only" players does Decatur have?

neck_06

10-25-2005, 08:13 AM

West Columbia should be solid this year in both baseball and basketball

The baseball team lost seniors Jacob Howard (Sam Houston State) and Brantly Ward (Hill College) to graduation.

neck_06

10-26-2005, 01:22 PM

ttt

Old Cardinal

10-26-2005, 02:59 PM

Neck 06 I agree W. C. along with Palestine, BH, and Columbus should be challenging folks all year. Sweeny had one Pitcher did he graduate?

handNthedirt

10-26-2005, 03:08 PM

We got knocked out of the playoffs last year by Carthage, and they had two stud pitchers, mid 90's with crazy control. Does anybody know if the Bulldogs are still loaded, or if all their talent left with last year's graduation.

Old Cardinal

10-26-2005, 03:48 PM

Carthage graduated heavy and the two top Pitchers are gone. Actually the only Pitcher from the final four games returning is Kevin Angelle(BC), .The Yoakum, Cooper and Carthage Pitchers that pitched in the Final Four are all out of HS now. Carthage, Yoakum and Cooper fielded a large number of Seniors at Austin. Which HS do you attend and how does your District look?

NateDawg39

10-26-2005, 03:53 PM

Yeah the catcher was Staley...he plays linebacker also and he is a good catcher. colton Cangley or whatever his last name is is back from a good run in the playoffs as a freshman, he is a good pitcher.

neck_06

10-27-2005, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
Neck 06 I agree W. C. along with Palestine, BH, and Columbus should be challenging folks all year. Sweeny had one Pitcher did he graduate?

nope, he is a senior this year

bd62

10-27-2005, 09:26 AM

yoakums top 2 pitchers graduated. they have 2 pitchers back .one pitched the 3rd playoff game against liberty hill and the other pitched 3rd game against falfurias. also have a soph. pitcher that has great potential(another lefty). both catchers,shortstop and third base are back. they will still be pretty good.

necks

10-27-2005, 11:40 AM

Carthage has a stable of good young pitchers ready to replace the last 2....This is a HUGE baseball town.... Bulldogs should be a better offensive club next yr as well....Lot of tradition and pride will keep the Dogs in the hunt for the title again next yr. You are crazy if you right them off already.

Lindale is everyone's pick to be the best 3A team in East Texas next yr with Bullard right behind them from the same district.

Lindale returns hard throwing RHP Carson Middleton and Bullard has 2 good pitchers in Brody Greene and Chad Sherman.

White Oak is another team in 3A that could make a playoff run...

g$$

10-28-2005, 06:39 AM

Neck 06 posted the essentials for this district & it should be a good one. WC returns a fine team led by P/SS Shane Minks (Texas A&M commit), C Tyler Sweat, & many other starters from a team that went 4 rounds deep last year. Sweeny is led by P/SS Blake Williams (University of Texas commit), 2B Javier Chavez, & total 6 starters from a team that went 3 rounds deep last year. Pitching depth will be the question for both, but both have some arms in the mix. WC's Adrian Montoya & Sweeny's Tank Carder should emerge as quality pitchers on each team as both pitched some last year. All everything athlete Flannel for WC can pitch / OF too. Howard will be missed by WC - fine ballplayer now at Sam Houston. Sweeny has a couple of underclassmen who must step up for this team to go places, but they have some ability. WC had a really good JV last year. These 2 should battle for the top spot. Wharton is always in the mix (Ansley tore ACL unfortunately in fb), Needville competes hard, Palacios returns top pitcher Kubecka, & Stafford rounds out the district. Should be a tough district, as both WC & Sweeny will probably start the year ranked in the THSBCA Top 25 based on last year & returning players. Sweeny opens with perennial power Columbus.

Good year for Brazoria County baseball Division 1 prospects so far: in addition to Minks & Williams above, 4A Angleton's LHP/1B Taylor Hammack (University of Texas commit) recently made his decision for college. There may be others too as Brazoswood always plays good ball. Not sure about the other schools in the area. Greater Houston Area, as always, is a baseball hotbed for college & pro prospects. Good luck to everyone this year.

neck_06

10-28-2005, 08:17 AM

is that a g$$ sighting?!

bout time you got back on the board.

preview of 25-3A looks good

neck_06's picks

1. West Columbia
2. Sweeny
3. Wharton
4. Needville
5. Palacios
6. Stafford

LogieJoeBean001

10-28-2005, 08:30 AM

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
Lufkin Hudson Hornets don't play football they concentrate on Baseball while; likewise, Lufkin Pollock Central concentates their emphasis on Softball. Kind of weird that the UIL allows another Lufkin team to get all the football players.
The Hudson Hornets must be recognized as a contender this year. They have some great transfers coming in, as usual, but the core of the team returns.
Brandon Belt is one of the best Pitchers and hitters in Texas. Other stars include: Seniors-- Matt Murphy, Nick Brasuell, Jimmy Brantner, Justin Nichols, Tanner Hines, and Pete Peters.
Junior, Nick Rhodes and Justin Nichols will back up Belts(their ace).
I just doesn't seem fair that some schools don't participate in major sports to concentrate their efforts on one sport. Coaches Glen Kimble and John Courtney are veteran BB people and many transfer to Lufkin Hudson as young aspirants to get to play for them.

Any thoughts on the subject?

Tell us about your BB teams upcoming team?

I grew up in Lufkin. Hudson is a very small community outside of Lufkin and not even IN Lufkin ISD and as far as UIL ALLOWING this, I believe that the people of Hudson probably prefer it this way. Hudson, as it was only known by when I lived there...not Lufkin Hudson, was so incredibly small, that they only had 63 in their graduating class once. My point being that the school was so small, I just figured they probably didn't even have enough students to field a football team or cared to. Why shouldn't they participate in some type of sports. I'd hate to think that kids went all the way through HS and had no extracurricular activities to participate in at all.

I do remember Hudson almost always graduating top notch students, academically speaking. Could be parents are seeking an education for their kids, and it's not just a matter of playing sports of whatever kind. Our neighbor, who was a widow, moved to Hudson and so that her son could attend Hudson because he had behavior and discipline problems at LHS. Her thinking that perhaps the smaller community and environment, and not to mention the quality of education in Hudson, would help her son. You never know completely what all the reasons might be for transfers between districts and if the child happens to be a good athlete, then so be it.