Jasper 27 Silsbee 14

[Billy Boy]

Maybe we can get back on track.
GO DOGS

[j_dog]

Honestly, I think the Dogs are on track. No way can this year's team be compared to the teams of the last two years, at least not on paper. And, I think we all should be careful not to even try to compare. This year's team should only be compared to its own potential. I am delighted for them to be 1-1 on the field against 4a teams. Go Dogs!

[Billy Boy]

Very well put. j_dog

[Bulldog92]

I agree and think winning after playing the way they did in the first half speaks volumes about the character and heart of this team. :D

[JasperDog94]

Glad to get back on track. :)

Is Cook healthy yet?

[spiveyrat]

Jasper's got to play both halves and not just the second. If they don't, Newton might be too much to handle this year. That's what happened to us in the semi's last year. Burnet came ready to play from the start and by the time Jasper decided to play some ball, Burnet was already out of reach.

[Old Cardinal]

What a profound insite J_dog-- The thought pattern that: Our team should not be compared to teams of the recent past; instead we should only compare our team to its own potential....That includes not only skill levels but experience, size, age, exposure to different facets of the game, strength of the opponents, speed, etc: I think all we ask from our various teams is to train hard and give their all come Friday night. Jasper will be good, and Newton will be good also. I have seen Silsbee's team, and they are not bad at all. What a remarkable training week improvement for a lot of teams-Jasper included!

[LWFH]

I'm also glad to see Jasper getting back to their winning ways. The Jasper - Newton game should be a good one. I just hope they both stay focused and win all of their games between now and then.

[LWFH]

Hey Kenny, have you seen any HS football in Washington? If so, how do you think it compares to Texas?

[Bulldog92]

It doesn't. The kids there (and in the South in general) are better athletes and play more football over the course of a year. There are a few exceptions and the quality of football here isn't really that bad. These coaches emphasize the passing game more and every year there are a handful of good prospects, but I would bet that some of Texas' losing programs would have more success here. Basketball is king here and gets a lot more pub on the high school level. I will say that Puyallup High has produced some good QB's and has always been one of the best around here, so you should check them out....

[j_dog]

Old Cardinal:
... I have seen Silsbee's team, and they are not bad at all. What a remarkable training week improvement for a lot of teams-Jasper included!An excellent point. There are many good teams around not yet getting their due. Because Jasper demolished Crosby in their first scrimmage, people said Crosby was weak. Yet, if I read the article correctly, it appears that PNG had all they could handle from Crosby before pulling out their victory last night.

[crimson blood]

in post after post i keep seeing the jasper - newton matchup predicted over and over. think back to last year :rolleyes: Kirbyville nearly slipped on the 'dogs allowing 1 td per half. had the 'cats' #1 player not gotten a concussion the 2nd half might have been totally different.
on paper the dogs and eagles should be battling for top 'animal' but you shouldn't underestimate the jack attack. :cool:

[duckbutter]

I was thinking the same thing. I would not surprise me to see Kirbyville beat out Jasper for the second spot.

[j_dog]

duckbutter:
I was thinking the same thing. I would not surprise me to see Kirbyville beat out Jasper for the second spot.Come on Duck, do you mean Newton is aiming for third? I know Jasper will be underdogs against Newton, but they still aim to play for first. Well, that is my feelings anyway.

[St. Ivender]

By the time week 5 rolls around Jasper will surely be the favorite. They stumbled against a good 4A team in PN-G, Nacogdoches (much improved from what I hear) will be a common opponent to guage both teams by.

[j_dog]

Good point. Nac may present more problems this year than last. Lufkin finally put them away last week, but Nac apparently made them work for it, at least in the beginning. Nac is now a big 4a school and if they ever regain their spirit, they could make things tough. They were just beaten down in 5a.

[crimson blood]

duckbatter, :mad: the only thing that would put kv ahead of jasper would be the same item that will determine the difference between n-ton, kv, jasper. it will not likely be physical talent - edge goes to j then n then k. coaching ability (nah) n then k then j. numbers (uh uh) j-k-n. it will go to the integrity of the leadership. this is a slightly mobile thing.
in times past i have seen great talent and above avg coaching lose because their favoritism killed the desire of the trenchline workers.
a 'star' can take a good team over the top with the right chemistry. without it :confused: :mad: :(
however, i saw some small, average west texas teams win championships because they were a TEAM without a true standout, a bunch of role-players. wink

[Compudyne]

Crimson, you are correct. Kirbyville slipped up on Jasper and gave them a good game. I doubt if it will happen again. I sure Jasper will bring their A game this year. Good Luck

[Bulldog92]

I just wanna see Jasper find their A game that was lost somewhere in College Station last November. We're still in the B-C range right now...but considering how young the team is, the Dogs are doing alright.

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: Bulldog92 ]</small>

[xlr8tor]

crimson blood:
duckbatter, :mad: the only thing that would put kv ahead of jasper would be the same item that will determine the difference between n-ton, kv, jasper. it will not likely be physical talent - edge goes to j then n then k. coaching ability (nah) n then k then j. numbers (uh uh) j-k-n. it will go to the integrity of the leadership. this is a slightly mobile thing.
in times past i have seen great talent and above avg coaching lose because their favoritism killed the desire of the trenchline workers.
a 'star' can take a good team over the top with the right chemistry. without it :confused: :mad: :(
however, i saw some small, average west texas teams win championships because they were a TEAM without a true standout, a bunch of role-players. wink Just curious, which small average west Texas teams are you speaking of? Just my take.

[crimson blood]

it was in the mid-late 70's (yeah i know eons ago...'game has changed'...poo poo) however with technique from an offensive line giving up about 30 lbs avg won a championship in AAAA for :rolleyes: a team from maybe el paso area... :( soory ya caught me shootin off my mouth without the details in ready store. :o

Bulldog92---i saw the dogs several times last year and with respect to their 'talent' i NEVER saw their "a game" on the field. but then few times when a game is over does anyone say that was my a game. :p there's always room for improvement, mistakes that shouldn't be made. however, the dog offense did not utilize the incredible speed they had as a team. neither did they routinely take advantage of their o-line power. (Pleez, pass blocking with the size and talent on their line for 3/4 of the game?) and the major facet of their game that every opponent recognized but burnet took advantage of was the lack of discipline in the pass coverage. that's the integrity spoken of in another thread. eek! don't shoot me i'm just the piano player.

[duckbutter]

I agree, I thought Jasper would have been better off if they had used a different offense at least some of the time. Get under center and pound the ball behind that huge offensive line. Would have been hard to stop and burn up a little of the clock. I always thought that if Jasper played a team that could score as quickly as they could they would be in trouble.

[whatusay2]

CrimsonBlood, you said so many good things, I don't know which one to comment on...But, I particularly liked the quote below. I'm interested to know which one of the factors you talked about below you (or anyone else for that matter) thinks is most important for the Jasper team to win out this year.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by crimson blood:
[QB]duckbatter...it will not likely be physical talent - edge goes to j then n then k. coaching ability (nah) n then k then j. numbers (uh uh) j-k-n. it will go to the integrity of the leadership.

[crimson blood]

i think that they will stand their best chance of doing what last year's hi-power talent couldn't do...win a district championship if their leaders both on and off the field will pay close attention to details. obviously, at this point nobody stands out as a stud so they will be forced to utilyze every player at his optimum. they will not power any one off the line or out-quick the better opponents but with technique they can play a better team ball than we saw last year.
on the sidelines maybe we wont have ineligible players slip thru the cracks and cost the entire team. i apply that to the sidelines because it was not the ultimate responsiblity of the player but his adult supervision that allowed that to happen. an axiom i live by is 'whether it is blame or credit it always goes to the top'.

[big69]

I didn't know till today that PN-G had to forfeit the game to Jasper b/c they used an ineligible player. How can you use an ineligible player on the first friggin' game?!

[Reveille]

crimson blood:

on the sidelines maybe we wont have ineligible players slip thru the cracks and cost the entire team. i apply that to the sidelines because it was not the ultimate responsiblity of the player but his adult supervision that allowed that to happen. Please tell me you are not suggesting the kid had no culpability on the issue.

[JasperDog94]

Apparently he was 19.

[Bulldog92]

If the kid didn't know he was 19, he's in the wrong school to begin with...

[spiveyrat]

Crimson: Are you talking about this year's PNG inelegible player or the inelegible player for Jasper from last year?

[crimson blood]

spiveyrat: i was referencing the situation last year. however the same shoe fits for png. not saying that the kid and family (if there is one) did not decieve nor am i saying he did. however, because the fate of the program is what is at greatest risk and the ones responsible for its welfare is an adult, who is paid to be professional enough to not just know the rules but to be wise and creative enough to protect his program, then the ultimate blame goes to them. :rolleyes:
this opinion may not sit well with many but consider that the 19 year old is still in high school and the adminstration of the school is being paid well to take care of its programs.
as i think back a hundred years to when i was 19 i would have loved to "play just one more time"...and i graduated before i was 19

[spiveyrat]

ok. just trying to understand.

[JasperDog94]

The ultimate responsibility does lie with the coaches and administrators. But I will say that the other kids on the team held the kid from Jasper at fault. He's the one who lied to the coach and told him that he made up the test and was passing. :mad: In this case, I blame the kid more than I blame the coach. As a coach, you want to be able to trust your kids. Unfortunately, this was one time that a kid was blinded from the consequences of his actions by the thought of playing one more game. What a shame. He could've brought his grades back up and been back in time for the playoffs. :confused:

<small>[ September 11, 2003, 08:44 AM: Message edited by: JasperDog94 ]</small>

[crimson blood]

In this case, I blame the kid more than I blame the coach. incredible:( let me embellish... the immature adolescent is to be held more responsible than the middle-aged, professionally trained, highly paid, (no freakin' classroom responsibility holding) educated leader of curriculum, athletics, or any other administrator, faculty member or anyone else.
incredible

[southern_thunder]

Highly paid???? where do you teach? But I do agree, ultimately regardless of anything else the fault falls on the head coaches shoulders.

[big69]

I see it in different ways. The kid should have not lied to begin with and should have know it will hurt the team. But also, if the coach had the slightest clue that his player was not passing he should have gone to the teacher to find out what the deal was. Also the teacher should have informed his coaches about the situation. SO in all, everybody is sort of at fault for not taking responsibilty in getting the information passed on. Hopefully it won't happen again and everybody has learned a lesson the hard way.

[crimson blood]

So thun, when you are being paid 2-3 times the regional average household income you are 'highly' paid. that is a relative, subjective, qualitative analysis and not quantitative.
granted, you may still not be paid what you are worth , if you are doing your job well.
:p
the hours are long, the responsibilities are great, but look at the bright side...the job is thankless.
what have you done for [to] me, lately?
i did this for almost 20 years and respect those that continue in it and do it well. :)

[southern_thunder]

Well I dont know where you worked but I have been in the business for 13 years now and have never been paid 2 to 3 times the average household income of the region. But did not get into the business for the money, it was the long hours and thankless work and critisism from the stands that brought me to the job. LOL :D

[Reveille]

It is my understanding that the kid from PNG was told he could not play football last spring due to him turning nineteen. He evidently signed up anyway............ It was his fault because he had been told. It was the schools' fault because his name should have been a red flag since they had already told him he could not play.

In reference to the Jasper player last year, the kid lied about it....... If I remember corretly, the computers at the school had gone down around the time the grades were to be posted. If this was actually the case, the school should have had a backup plan for this situation. The coaches should have checked to make sure the kids were eligible as in the "old days".

IMHO, the two kids knew about these situations and chose to do the less than honest, stand up kind of guy thing to do. Are they kids? Yes. Should they be held accountable? Yes..... Am I on a soapbox? Yes. :rolleyes:

[JasperDog94]

Can I get a AMEN? :)

[crimson blood]

so thun, the region avg is approx $20k. the hd fb is more than 2x that.
reveille, computer shmuter :p
in a perfect world ya tell a subordinate what to do and he does it. however in a perfect world there is no need for the no pass no play rule. :)
are the kids 'honest'? not even a serious question, however if they are not on it enough to be out of the gray on passing bonehead h/s classes [not talking ap, honors or ??] then how can he fairly be expected to understand the clear-as-mud regulations of uil/tx state legislature?
responsible? yeah...ultimately responsible? not in this lifetime! :cool:

[JasperDog94]

crimson blood:
so thun, the region avg is approx $20k. Care to share where you got that incorrect piece of information?

[Reveille]

crimson blood:
if they are not on it enough to be out of the gray on passing bonehead h/s classes [not talking ap, honors or ??] then how can he fairly be expected to understand the clear-as-mud regulations of uil/tx state legislature?
responsible? yeah...ultimately responsible? not in this lifetime! :cool: Thank you for clarifying this issue Crimson. eek!

You might want to call the Texas Youth Commission as well as the Texas Department of Criminal Justice Institutional Division to let them know they have a bunch of kids in prison who are not "ultimately responsible" for their actions. :rolleyes:

[crimson blood]

jdog, the jasper, k-vill, newton area economies are serverly depressed. the avg household income is accurate. if you have evidence showing otherwise present it. i just know what i see daily in the halls/streets of the area. :(

revilee, there is a vast difference in smash and grab and playing a game too long. reality check here. contrary to the strong opinions of a few football is not life. :D
also the perp was vertually excommunicated for his actions and villified by the community. :confused: aside from the tarnish on the season's record i saw no corresponding disciplinary actions on anyone else.

in society parents are liable for the misdeeds of their offspring under their supervision (civil suits for damages) obviously, not to a great enough degree, in my opinion. :mad: walmart is held liable for the actions of their truck drivers for another example. its not a new idea.

each adult is ultimately responsible for their life (choices) and each program leader should also be ulimately for the conduct of their program and its participants within that program.

oh yeah, i almost forgo, this is not a perfect world.

[JasperDog94]

crimson blood:
[QB]jdog, the jasper, k-vill, newton area economies are serverly depressed. the avg household income is accurate. if you have evidence showing otherwise present it. i just know what i see daily in the halls/streets of the area. (
/QB]You're the one that was quoting the average. It seems to me that you're the one who should come up with some evidence. But since you asked:

State minimum teacher's salary: 24,240.00

That alone blows your theory about the avg salary being around 20k. This is just the minimum. The average for all Texas teachers is 39,230.00. With what I know of East Texas, teacher's make up a huge portion of the wage earners.

If you want to prove your point, you've got some work to do.
wink

[crimson blood]

no need to 'prove'. your stats show the avg for a select (and in this area) high level pay. for joe avg in jasper, population something over 6000 he is far below the 233 teachers (by the local paper's count dated wednesday, sept 10, 2003).

granted, there is no empirical proof here. as i said before, that is what i see, know, and common sense .

as an aside...there are more (unemployed) residents in just one of the local government housing projects than there are employees in the entire isd including maintenance, bus drivers, custodians, cooks, ad infinitum. yeah, i think my assumed average is safe. :D

[JasperDog94]

Sorry, but I don't count unemployed people in my avg. Nor do I count those on welfare. Nor do I count those on social security. Nor do I count those on unemployment. I only count those in full time jobs. If you counted all the above mentioned categories plus minimum wage, your average salary would be lucky to be over 10,000. That's my "common sense". wink

[crimson blood]

Sorry, but I don't count unemployed people in my avg. Nor do I count those on welfare. Nor do I count those on social security. Nor do I count those on unemployment. I only count those in full time jobs. jdog, your census of non-citizens makes a better argument than i can. :D you are not alone in your census methodology. many world leaders have placed the same value on the unproductive. wink

i return to my point... you pay an employee to do a job, you pay a supervisor to oversee the employees and you pay the administrator to oversee a program.
if the receiver misses a pass blame him, if the blocking scheme doesn't produce look to the coordinator, but if the system costs you then look to the top. i'm still not convinced that this ever happened. this is not a charge against just this one school but seems to be the general atmosphere in tx h/s athletics.

[Reveille]

94, it is useless to argue with crimson. He is a legend in his on mind. :rolleyes: