Federal Judge says Pledge Unconstitutional

[spiveyrat]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/D8CK6AB02.html :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[CHS_CG]

what a bunch of crap!:rolleyes:

[injuredinmelee]

I think this website is fake news. All they have listed there is one sentence. Surely it wqould be more in depth coverage if they actually did this.

[mustang68]

Take me back to the 50's

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
I think this website is fake news. All they have listed there is one sentence. Surely it wqould be more in depth coverage if they actually did this.

Well, if you won't believe AP, will you believe CNN, then? When I posted it, it was breaking news and there were no details to go with it.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/14/pledge.ruling.ap/index.html

[JasperDog94]

Here's what I don't get...THEY DON'T HAVE TO RECITE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[NateDawg39]

ARRRRGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[injuredinmelee]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Well, if you won't believe AP, will you believe CNN, then? When I posted it, it was breaking news and there were no details to go with it.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/14/pledge.ruling.ap/index.html
Honest I wasnt doubting your veracity at all I just assumed it may be a faux newsite. I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

[CHS_CG]

again its all a load of crap, in your school you must stand but you DO NOT have to say it!

[AggieJohn]

i personally know you don't have too say that

[catdad]

Whether that say it or not, this is a nation under God. You can choose to ignore Him but He is there.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by injuredinmelee
Honest I wasnt doubting your veracity at all I just assumed it may be a faux newsite. I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

No problem. I wasn't offended or hurt or anything. My skin is pretty thick. ;)

[SintonFan]

Chief Justice Roberts to the rescue?:clap:

[sahen]

he chose this timing on purpose...he thinks he has a better shot to get this ruled in his favor since the court is in a changeover right now....i geuss we will see what happens....

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/D8CK6AB02.html :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
LOL. Pledge of Allegiance. Unconstitutional? ROFLMAO.

[shellman54]

here's my solution: if you don't live in Texas, and believe in the right to say the pledge, come to Texas. If you live in Texas, and don't believe in saying it, get out. Then we build a big fence around the state, and see how those on the outside manage.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
LOL. Pledge of Allegiance. Unconstitutional? ROFLMAO.

The 9th Circus court who originally ruled on this issue is one of the most liberal courts in the nation. Democrats put this lunacy court together by appointments. If you read the opinions of the 9th Circus you will find they are far radical left wing nuts. Hopefully since the U.S. Supreme Court will hopefully be a conservative court appointed mostly by Republicans they will uphold the rights of the public to say this pledge. I can guarantee you that the framers of the Constitution in no which way wanted America like this. Actually if you read your history 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were Christians. Separation of Church and State is neither in our Constitution nor in our Bill of Rights. It was a letter, that's right a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist. The first amendment is where these liberals seem to derive power from, but if you actually read the 1st amendment it says "Congress shall make NO LAW....." We are not making law here. The posters who said they simply just don't have to say it are correct. However, this is the tip of the iceberg. You can mark my words that eventually they will remove the crosses out of Arlington National Cemetery, and Chaplains in the Armed Forces will be no more. I will even take this one step further. When I was in Iraq I carried a cross around my neck the entire time. Eventually these left wing lunatics will say as a service man I do not have the right to freedom of religion because I am property of the United States government. I would have liked to have seen the ACLU remove the cross from my neck over in Iraq.
What is truly sad to me is that an entire generation of young Americans will never know the pride in saying that pledge. When I was a kid it was something very special to stand in front of the class and hold the flag while everyone recited the pledge.

[Sinton94]

GET A FREAKIN ROPE! :mad:

[Gobbla2001]

We have to remember that this hasn't gone all of the way yet... still has to go to the 9th circuit or what have you...

The only schools that will be effected by this judge's decision are the ones that the complaining parents' children are in...

[Sinton94]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
The 9th Circus court who originally ruled on this issue is one of the most liberal courts in the nation. Democrats put this lunacy court together by appointments. If you read the opinions of the 9th Circus you will find they are far radical left wing nuts. Hopefully since the U.S. Supreme Court will hopefully be a conservative court appointed mostly by Republicans they will uphold the rights of the public to say this pledge. I can guarantee you that the framers of the Constitution in no which way wanted America like this. Actually if you read your history 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were Christians. Separation of Church and State is neither in our Constitution nor in our Bill of Rights. It was a letter, that's right a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist. The first amendment is where these liberals seem to derive power from, but if you actually read the 1st amendment it says "Congress shall make NO LAW....." We are not making law here. The posters who said they simply just don't have to say it are correct. However, this is the tip of the iceberg. You can mark my words that eventually they will remove the crosses out of Arlington National Cemetery, and Chaplains in the Armed Forces will be no more. I will even take this one step further. When I was in Iraq I carried a cross around my neck the entire time. Eventually these left wing lunatics will say as a service man I do not have the right to freedom of religion because I am property of the United States government. I would have liked to have seen the ACLU remove the cross from my neck over in Iraq.
What is truly sad to me is that an entire generation of young Americans will never know the pride in saying that pledge. When I was a kid it was something very special to stand in front of the class and hold the flag while everyone recited the pledge.

THANK YOU FOR SERVING YOUR COUNTRY! :clap:
Your right it is just sad! We continue to let them chip away at our freedoms one pebble at a time. It's time to stand up for what you believe in and not allow the minority Libs. to ruin this great country!

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Sinton94
THANK YOU FOR SERVING YOUR COUNTRY! :clap:
Your right it is just sad! We continue to let them chip away at our freedoms one pebble at a time. It's time to stand up for what you believe in and not allow the minority Libs. to ruin this great country!

Thanks for your kind words Sinton94. It really just burns me up also how this nation is going towards a trend of a nation with no compass to guide it. It seems like every value I was ever taught as a child is now being attacked by these lunatics. America is 87% Christian and founded on biblical principals. I am so sick of the ACLU and the left of this nation. It really just makes me absolutely sick.

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
Thanks for your kind words Sinton94. It really just burns me up also how this nation is going towards a trend of a nation with no compass to guide it. It seems like every value I was ever taught as a child is now being attacked by these lunatics. America is 87% Christian and founded on biblical principals. I am so sick of the ACLU and the left of this nation. It really just makes me absolutely sick.

Is 87% accurate? If so, that would mean the other 13% is either athiest of in worship of another god/goddess/multiple gods and goddesses...

So if us saying 'Under god' offends the 13% of American parents, then wouldn't removing 'Under God' from the pledge offend 87% of American parents? gotta leave it like it is...

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
Is 87% accurate? If so, that would mean the other 13% is either athiest of in worship of another god/goddess/multiple gods and goddesses...

So if us saying 'Under god' offends the 13% of American parents, then wouldn't removing 'Under God' from the pledge offend 87% of American parents? gotta leave it like it is...

87% is accurate. I will also throw another statistic at you that will boggle your mind. In the first 150 years of this nation Separation of Church and State was eluded to 50 times in court cases. In the last 50 plus years of this nation it has been referred to over 6,000 times and counting. What is the most ironic to me is that the Ten Commandments are etched into the building where the U.S. Supreme Court will most probably have the final word on this. I hope people read Jefferson's letter of Separation of Church and State and how that letter has been twisted to meet the liberal left agenda of this nation. It will really open your eyes.

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
87% is accurate. I will also throw another statistic at you that will boggle your mind. In the first 150 years of this nation Separation of Church and State was eluded to 50 times in court cases. In the last 50 plus years of this nation it has been referred to over 6,000 times and counting. What is the most ironic to me is that the Ten Commandments are etched into the building where the U.S. Supreme Court will most probably have the final word on this. I hope people read Jefferson's letter of Separation of Church and State and how that letter has been twisted to meet the liberal left agenda of this nation. It will really open your eyes.

dang if we are 87% Christian we should be seeing a lot more people in church on Sunday and a lot less crime on the news..don't you think??

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by Hupernikomen
dang if we are 87% Christian we should be seeing a lot more people in church on Sunday and a lot less crime on the news..don't you think??

Your right

[Pmoney]

I am tired of all this stuff about God being taken out of things and the ten commandments removed from goverment buildings....it makes me mad as a christian and as a citizen:foul: :flamingma


Thanks for everybody that is serving their country!:clap:

[BMOC]

Originally posted by Paratrooper
The 9th Circus court who originally ruled on this issue is one of the most liberal courts in the nation. Democrats put this lunacy court together by appointments. If you read the opinions of the 9th Circus you will find they are far radical left wing nuts. Hopefully since the U.S. Supreme Court will hopefully be a conservative court appointed mostly by Republicans they will uphold the rights of the public to say this pledge. I can guarantee you that the framers of the Constitution in no which way wanted America like this. Actually if you read your history 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were Christians. Separation of Church and State is neither in our Constitution nor in our Bill of Rights. It was a letter, that's right a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist. The first amendment is where these liberals seem to derive power from, but if you actually read the 1st amendment it says "Congress shall make NO LAW....." We are not making law here. The posters who said they simply just don't have to say it are correct. However, this is the tip of the iceberg. You can mark my words that eventually they will remove the crosses out of Arlington National Cemetery, and Chaplains in the Armed Forces will be no more. I will even take this one step further. When I was in Iraq I carried a cross around my neck the entire time. Eventually these left wing lunatics will say as a service man I do not have the right to freedom of religion because I am property of the United States government. I would have liked to have seen the ACLU remove the cross from my neck over in Iraq.
What is truly sad to me is that an entire generation of young Americans will never know the pride in saying that pledge. When I was a kid it was something very special to stand in front of the class and hold the flag while everyone recited the pledge.

This is SAD and outrageous!!! I feel for you Paratrooper, but I hope it never, never gets that far. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[slpybear the bullfan]

Originally posted by shellman54
here's my solution: if you don't live in Texas, and believe in the right to say the pledge, come to Texas. If you live in Texas, and don't believe in saying it, get out. Then we build a big fence around the state, and see how those on the outside manage.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

TEXAS!!!!

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by slpybear the bullfan
:clap: :clap: :clap:

TEXAS!!!!

Maybe some folks out on the West Coast need to come to Texas just to see what patriotism is all about.......nah.......it would screw up the state.

[LogieJoeBean001]

This is an OUTRAGE! We, as upstanding, law-abiding American citizens should NEVER stand for this. It truly would be a sad day in our history if this were to come to pass. Heaven help us if it does. Could the apocolypse be that far behind if this thing happens?

I'm wondering, where's our say-so for the RIGHT to say it and to leave God in other areas of government. The only ones who ever seem to get their "say" are the ones who want it taken OUT, how about us who believe in keeping things just the way they are.

Be careful, be very careful and afraid, Big Brother just might be watching YOU!

Thanks Paratrooper for your dedication to our country. I know I sleep better at night just knowing you, and our other service men and women are out there protecting, fighting and dying for our freedoms. Your sacrifices are great and the honor you bestow on us, as American citizens, is even greater.

[bulldogbark]

In Saudi Arabia during desert storm one, we were not allowed to show our pocket Bibles in the open nor were our chaplins allowed to wear the insignia of the cross on their lapel because the polititians thoght that we would offend the Saudi's . now here we are fighting for a country, trying to help them out and we have to hide our religious heritage? As one commander of mine said "well just kill them all and let the Lord sort them out" this is a free country no dout but we have let our freedom and the rights of others trample what this nation was built on. when I the military men and women are getting their butts shot off to defend the rights of someone to burn our flag, well then it's time to take some of these rights and make them wrong. I for one dont want a police state as russia and china had and have... but I dont want a free for all here either. its time to tighten the grip on people and if they dont like it. the word is DEPORT.

this has been a public service annoucment:)

[MARLINDOGS]

Originally posted by bulldogbark
In Saudi Arabia during desert storm one, we were not allowed to show our pocket Bibles in the open nor were our chaplins allowed to wear the insignia of the cross on their lapel because the polititians thoght that we would offend the Saudi's . now here we are fighting for a country, trying to help them out and we have to hide our religious heritage? As one commander of mine said "well just kill them all and let the Lord sort them out" this is a free country no dout but we have let our freedom and the rights of others trample what this nation was built on. when I the military men and women are getting their butts shot off to defend the rights of someone to burn our flag, well then it's time to take some of these rights and make them wrong. I for one dont want a police state as russia and china had and have... but I dont want a free for all here either. its time to tighten the grip on people and if they dont like it. the word is DEPORT.

this has been a public service annoucment:) Well said.:clap: :clap:

[LogieJoeBean001]

AMERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!

[bulldogbark]

I should of had somebody humming the Star Spangle Banner in the background as I wrote that.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by bulldogbark
I should of had somebody humming the Star Spangle Banner in the background as I wrote that.

I am sure that may offend someone........LOL

[AggieJohn]

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
We have to remember that this hasn't gone all of the way yet... still has to go to the 9th circuit or what have you...

The only schools that will be effected by this judge's decision are the ones that the complaining parents' children are in... the guy that originally tried to do this got it thrown out originally because the courts said that he didn't actually have custody of the kid he was doing it for, so he went and talked to his neighbors and they signed on

[bulldogbark]

this thing has been passed and overturned several times, yeah he uses his child as a platform to try to get things his way, not much of an American, or a parent i think.:(

[rockdale80]

I love how you guys take what a FEW radicalists are trying to do, and make the entire democratic party look responsible.

[mustang04]

Originally posted by Hupernikomen
dang if we are 87% Christian we should be seeing a lot more people in church on Sunday and a lot less crime on the news..don't you think??

not necessarily....u hear about the crime and stuff on the news and it seems like its there every minute...but what if they put every single person who isnt committing a crime on the news

13% is alot of ppl

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I love how you guys take what a FEW radicalists are trying to do, and make the entire democratic party look responsible.

I did not read that into anything I had read so far.

It wasn't going the political route, so don't turn it that way!

[mustang04]

Originally posted by rockdale80
I love how you guys take what a FEW radicalists are trying to do, and make the entire democratic party look responsible.

once again..someone who nearly ruins a thread....:clap: :clap: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[rockdale80]

Your right it is just sad! We continue to let them chip away at our freedoms one pebble at a time. It's time to stand up for what you believe in and not allow the minority Libs. to ruin this great country!


The 9th Circus court who originally ruled on this issue is one of the most liberal courts in the nation. Democrats put this lunacy court together by appointments. If you read the opinions of the 9th Circus you will find they are far radical left wing nuts



I hope people read Jefferson's letter of Separation of Church and State and how that letter has been twisted to meet the liberal left agenda of this nation



I am so sick of the ACLU and the left of this nation. It really just makes me absolutely sick





I did not read that into anything I had read so far.

How are the above not political?

[Owen B]

Originally posted by LogieJoeBean001
It truly would be a sad day in our history if this were to come to pass. Heaven help us if it does. Could the apocolypse be that far behind if this thing happens?

The USA had no Pledge of Allegiance at all for more than half of its history as a nation. For the first 62 years that there was a pledge of allegiance, it didn’t include the words “under God.” It has only included those words since 1954. Since the nation managed just fine without a Pledge of Allegiance including “under God” for more than three fourths of its history, removing those words is not likely to bring on the demise of the country or the apocalypse.

The first generation to recite “under God” in the Pledge in school became the young adults of the sixties and seventies. Considering the time when some fairly radical changes in our society began, maybe adding those words didn't have the desired effect. Maybe removing them wouldn’t have the effect you anticipate.

[Phil C]

The radio stations need to play Red Skelton's discussion on this he made several years before his death. They should play it every hour at least once. I don't care if it is Rock, Country, Tejano or whatever. Red saw this coming.

[JasperDog94]

But the entire point is this: YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY IT!!!!!!!!!

[Phil C]

Isn't it strange how the Atheists are using their children or other children to impose their will on us. O'hara used her son to get prayer kicked out of our schools. Ironically the kids don't have a say about it or are too young to really have rational imput on it. In fact O'hara's son wanted the decision reversed many years later when he became a minister because he said they used him when he was too young to know what was going on. Now they are still up to their tricks. Let's hope the Good Lord has mercy on us for letting this happen as the USA seems to be turning away from him.

[Manck]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
But the entire point is this: YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY IT!!!!!!!!!

How many schoolchildren actually KNOW that? How many schoolchildren are ever informed of their right to not say the pledge?

How many that might know are afraid not to stand up for their beliefs against saying the pledge because of intimidation from their classmates?

I personally think that having schoolchildren that are very young (ie, elementary aged) recite the pledge is a load of crap. Do they even know what they're saying? Do they know why? Unless you're suggesting that we start teaching first graders really intense American History courses that REALLY teach kids what they're saying, and what they are pledging TO, I don't think they should be saying it.

DO you want a country full of clones who say they pledge allegiance to their country and have no idea what they mean? Or would you rather have a country full of kids who really understand patriotism and what that entails and make a logical choice about whether they REALLY pledge allegiance to their country publicly, or if they're still thinking things through.

The pledge is an incredibly divisive issue in our country, and I think that there are PLENTY of other ways to be incredibly patriotic without having a mass recitation of a pledge. Maybe we should all think things through a little more before we start trying to build fences around Texas, along with some other situatoins presented earlier in this thread.

Thanks for your time, and I'm ready for y'all to start calling me a communist hippie. :)

[Phil C]

Hey Manck - are you a communist hippie?!

:) :) :) :D

[Manck]

Originally posted by Phil C
Hey Manck - are you a communist hippie?!

:) :) :) :D

Let's see....

- I like soccer.
- I'm not a Republican.
- I'm not a conservative. (not liberal either, before we get to that)
- I like soccer.

I bet y'all think I am!

[Phil C]

Originally posted by Manck
Let's see....

- I like soccer.
- I'm not a Republican.
- I'm not a conservative. (not liberal either, before we get to that)
- I like soccer.

I bet y'all think I am!

Not at all Manck! In fact it raises you up two points on the soccer reply! :D

Of course I was only kidding with my question Manck.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by Manck
Let's see....

- I like soccer.
- I'm not a Republican.
- I'm not a conservative. (not liberal either, before we get to that)
- I like soccer.

I bet y'all think I am!
I love soccer, but you're still a communist hippie.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Manck
Do they even know what they're saying? Do they know why? Children also don't know why they should do homework. Does that mean they shouldn't?

Children also don't know why they have to brush their teeth. Does that mean they shouldn't?

The government is providing a free education. If they want you to say the pledge and you don't want them to, pull them out of school. You have every right to do so.

But once again: THEY DON'T HAVE TO SAY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Owen B]

These statements, in reference to the court’s decision and the school prayer issue that came up in the discussion, were made by fervent, practicing Christians on another forum I read.


Thank God.


I don't want government telling me what to think or believe about God. If I say the Pledge of Allegiance, I want to say it because I feel it. I don't want it thrust upon me by a school system that ostracizes me if I decide not to do it, because then it's not from my heart.


Any authority we cede to the schools is authority we pull from the home or from our private lives. We want our schools to start the day with prayer, but why worry about starting the day with prayer at school if your child has already prayed with you at home? I do not want my kids praying to someone else's God, and when the schools water down God, the Father of Jesus Christ (as they MUST do), they are praying to another god.



My kids will pray with me. They will not need to wait until school begins for some watered down ecumenical God who is indistinguishable from anyone else's god. Nor will I need them to wait for school to tell them the value of the freedom we have in this country and why it should be cherished. Calculus? Yeah, I'll save that for the schools. God? Back off, Big Brother.


I agree wholeheartedly with this district court's ruling...and even if Congress undoes the changes made to the verbiage, I still think it should be outlawed.


How about teaching kids to show loyalty through actually teaching them civics and giving them opportunities to demonstrate patriotism, rather than just reciting a bunch of stupid words that they don't understand anyway.


I'll tell you why I say this: it is the parent's responsibility to provide the moral and religious upbringing for their children, not the State's. If the State provides moral and religious upbringing to the kids, which version of morality or religious doctrine the children will be brought up with? Yours? Mine? Whose?



But I really don't want the State to inculcate my kids with their version of morality, even if they do utter the words, "under God," without understanding.


I'm not a complete heathen, but I'm not nearly as religious as these folks. I really don't care one way or another about the Pledge, "under God" in the Pledge, or school prayer. They oppose them.


P.S. I'm not advocating anything here. I'm just posting this as food for thought.

[Paratrooper]

Originally posted by rockdale80
How are the above not political?

It actually is somewhat political. You are right. However, it is a liberal platform that is pushing this change. Do you think hardline Conservatives are pushing gay marriage.....no liberals are. I haven't seen conservatives thinking it is their freedom of expression to burn the very flag we fall under. Do you think hardline Conservatives are pushing to seperate God from every facet of American life.....no liberals are. The ACLU is a bonafide liberal organization. It's a fact. I can't remember the last time that conservatives embraced the views of the ACLU. Who is pushing the abortion issue.....liberals.

I don't feel in having a platform of flag burning, abortion killing, gay marriage, and god bashing is what the framers had in mind. I am sorry that the party you profess believes in this type of behavior, but it is a known fact that yes, the democratic party pushes these issues and embraces them.

[Jason1725]

Hey Manck - are you a communist hippie?!


No I doubt he is but the man who wrote the Pledge was a socialist. His name was Francis Bellamy who wrote it in August of 1892 I would hope you all are more open minded to the truth than the folks at Jasper-Bulldogs.com. Don't take my word for it look it up and study for yourself. You might find that you may not want to say the pledge anymore. Here is a link with pictures of kids and the original salute which looks a lot like the German Workers party salute (Nazis). Here is a link to the photos http://members.ij.net/rex/pledge2.html

[sinfan75]

SCREW EM!!!

[West22]

I HAVE AN OPEN CHALLENGE TO ALL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, BOTH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT TO GO PUBLIC WITH A YES VOTE IF YOU BELIEVE THE PLEDGE SHOULD STAY THE WAY IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN .IF THEY BELIEVE THAT UNDER GOD SHOULD BE TAKEN OUT OF THE PLEDGE THEY NEED TO LET EVERYONE KNOW .NO STRADLING THE FENCE .I KNOW THAT THE COURTS WILL EVENTUALLY DETERMINE THIS, BUT AT LEAST YOU COULD FIND OUT HOW OUR ELECTED OFFICALS FEEL.

[LH Panther Mom]

Sorry, but this is it.