NCAA bans use of Indian mascots, names

[Ranger Mom]

I don't get this!! I wouldn't think it is derogatory in the least....right the opposite as a matter of fact!


Updated: 10:19 p.m. ET Aug. 11, 2005
INDIANAPOLIS - Fed up with what it considers “hostile” and “abusive” American Indian nicknames, the NCAA announced Friday it would shut those words and images out of postseason tournaments, a move that left some school officials angry and threatening legal action.

Starting in February, any school with a nickname or logo considered racially or ethnically “hostile” or “abusive” by the NCAA would be prohibited from using them in postseason events. Mascots will not be allowed to perform at tournament games, and band members and cheerleaders will also be barred from using American Indians on their uniforms beginning in 2008.

Major college football teams are not subject to the ban because there is no official NCAA tournament.

Affected schools were quick to complain, and Florida State — home of the Seminoles — threatened legal action.

“That the NCAA would now label our close bond with the Seminole people as culturally ’hostile and abusive’ is both outrageous and insulting,” Florida State president T.K. Wetherell said in a statement.

“I intend to pursue all legal avenues to ensure that this unacceptable decision is overturned, and that this university will forever be associated with the ’unconquered’ spirit of the Seminole Tribe of Florida,” he added.

The committee also recommended that schools follow the examples of Wisconsin and Iowa by refusing to schedule contests against schools that use American Indian nicknames.

While NCAA officials admit they still can’t force schools to change nicknames or logos, they are making a statement they believe is long overdue. Eighteen mascots, including Florida State’s Seminole and Illinois’ Illini, were on the list of offenders.

Those schools will not be permitted to host future NCAA tournament games, and if events have already been awarded to those sites, the school must cover any logos or nicknames that appear.

“Certainly some things remain to be answered from today, and one of those things is the definition of what is ‘hostile or abusive,”’ said Tom Hardy, a spokesman at Illinois.

The NCAA did not give a clear answer on that.

President Myles Brand noted that some schools using the Warrior nickname will not face sanctions because they do not use Indian symbols. One school, North Carolina-Pembroke — which uses the nickname Braves — will also be exempted because Brand said the school has historically had a high percentage of students, more than 20 percent, who are American Indians.


“We believe hostile or abusive nicknames are troubling to us and it can’t continue,” committee chairman Walter Harrison said. “We’re trying to send a message, very strongly, saying that these mascots are not appropriate for NCAA championships.”

The decision, however, quickly evoked passions and complaints from both sides.

At Florida State, Wetherell said the NCAA was trying to embarrass the school for using its nickname, even though the Seminole Tribe of Florida has given the university permission to continue using it.

“Other Seminole tribes are not supportive,” said Charlotte Westerhaus, the NCAA vice president for diversity and inclusion.

Supporters also were unhappy.

Vernon Bellecourt, president of the National Coalition on Racism in Sports and Media and a member of the Anishinabe-Ojibwe Nation in Minnesota, approved of the ban but had hoped the NCAA would take even stronger action.
We’re not so happy about the fact that they didn’t make the decision to ban the use of Indian team names and mascots,” he said.

Harrison, president at the University of Hartford, said the executive committee does not have the authority to do that, and schools can still appeal their inclusion on the list.

Brand and Harrison said they hoped school officials would pursue policy changes through the NCAA first, before going to court.

“I suspect that some of those would like to having a ruling on that,” Brand said. “But unless there is a change before Feb. 1, they will have to abide by it.”

Two years ago, the NCAA recommended schools determine for themselves whether Indian depictions were offensive.

Among the schools to change nicknames in recent years were St. John’s (from Redmen to Red Storm) and Marquette (from Warriors to Golden Eagles).

But that hasn’t changed opinions on either side.

“They’re not willing to give up this money,” Bellecourt said, referring to merchandising revenue. “We would hope that it (the decision) was the handwriting on the wall that would urge them to drop these team names and mascots.”

[jason]

this is so stupid...next, p.e.t.a. is gonna complain because having animal nickanes is offensive to animals...people need to get over themselves and worry about other things....

maybe the people complaining would be happy if a college were to use other people as nicknames - the ' _____ state university fighting whities'....

[Chef bob]

Yeah you tell em

[GreenMonster]

C'mon Jason, some dude used that for his Intramural Basketball team name several years ago at Colorado State, at least be original. I do agree with your argument though. My alma matter is on that list. Midwestern State University is located roughly 30 minutes south of the dead center of the Comanche Nation. The school and the tribe have had a very good relationship over the years and Midwestern sponsors several Comanche youth annually with scholarships. It is a win win situation for the U and the Tribe as they are both able to get publicity from the arrangement. It's just sad that the NCAA has to overstep it's bounds to ruin a good thing. Sawing off their nose just to spite their face in my opinion, but the NCAA didn't ask me.

[jason]

Originally posted by GreenMonster
C'mon Jason, some dude used that for his Intramural Basketball team name several years ago at Colorado State, at least be original. just trying to make a point...

how bout u pass a bullet...:D

[GreenMonster]

Originally posted by jason
just trying to make a point...

how bout u pass a bullet...:D

Best Idea You've Had ALL Day!!!

Bullet Pass!

[footballgal]

IMHO, I say that if the majority of the american natives, think it's offensvie than it should be banned.

[Pmoney]

Florida State is taking NCAA to court over the matter

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by Pmoney
Florida State is taking NCAA to court over the matter
I hope they prevail and get to remain Seminoles.

[sahen]

Florida State should win THEIR case...They have permission from the Seminole Nation to use the Seminole name and they r supposedly using the same lawyer that Bush used during the recount thing in Florida...However, i wouldnt be surprised to see the NCAA say Florida State can use the name but still suspend it in the other 16 schools cases....I hope that this dont happen and FSU can sue for all the schools not just them...In my opinion NCAA is supposed to govern the athletes and make sure they stay Amateurs...they r overstepping their bounds big time in this one...

[exbccards76'smom]

I think it plain stupid!! I couldn't imagine PNG being anything but the Indians!! I agree that the next thing they will do is start trying to get all animal names banned too

[vet93]

What about the Fighting Irish.....being from Irish decent I resent the fact that this nickname reinforces the stereotype of Irish people being drunken brawlers!;) In all seriousness, the use of a particular mascot is actually a compliment to the people that represent that mascot.

[sahen]

Originally posted by footballgal
IMHO, I say that if the majority of the american natives, think it's offensvie than it should be banned.
the problem is that a committee of black and white men and women decided this, not Indians....almost all of the institutions in question have the approval of the Indian nation/group to use their name...for example, FSU has the complete approval of the Seminole tribe, UND (U of North Dakota Fighting Sioux) has the approval of one of the Sioux Nations/Tribes, and the U of Illinois use the Indians their state is named after (Fighting Illini), i mean come on Illinois is French for Illini....The Indians in essecence are being told that they do not know what is best for them and the image of their tribe because they have approved the use of their name yet the NCAA says, no you can't use it....It really is a ridiculous thing to be arguing over if u ask me, this isnt the NCAA's area to meddle in yet they are meddling anyways and it is gonna get them into a big mess if they aren't careful....


Also the NCAA said they will have to replace the mascot name w/ the name of the University when they make it to postseason competition...So the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux will become the Fighting North Dakotans, oh yah that is an Indian tribe! or how about the Fighting Illini becoming the Fighting Illinois, yah that is an Indian name too....U of Indiana isnt in trouble but we should all know Indiana's state name means "Land of the Indians" or how about one a little closer to home, Oklahoma means "red people" in Choctaw, that is by far the most degrading of the examples I have mentioned...our country is full of Indian names and traditions, many of which we are unaware of and many that we are, according to the NCAA we shouldnt be aware of any of them because the refrences are "hostile and abusive" but how many poeple actually think about the Seminoles or other brave tribes that fought for their land on a daily bases...Not many, but their name gets put out there when the colleges play sports, and if the tribes say its ok then it is ok w/ me...I don't know anyone that can honestly say the athletic institutions use the names in a real "hostile and abusive" manner....

[Chef bob]

Maybe they could put casinos on campus and let all the profits go to scholarships for intelligent people and not just athletes
but that would be degrading, but wait oh yeah they already do that on reservations already.
(athletes are intelligent).

[sahen]

I copied and pasted this from the Baylorfans.com message board, this issue is a hot topic at most colleges/universities I have found out even if they have nothing to do w/ Indian names....It is long but is a good read if you have the time....Just for general information UND is the University of North Dakota who are known as the Fighting Sioux....



An Open Letter from UND President Charles Kupchella to the NCAA

8/12/2005

August 12, 2005



An Open Letter to the NCAA:



The quiet serenity of our beautiful campus was disturbed early August 5 by news reports that the NCAA had decided to address the Indian nickname issue. The early reports were unclear; the words mascot, nickname, and logo were used interchangeably, and the loaded words “abusive” and “hostile” were invoked without definition and without any real clear idea as to how they were being applied. We don’t have a mascot, and our logo was designed by a very well-respected American Indian artist. We couldn’t imagine that these reports would apply to us.



Later, we saw the full release. While it looked like the action taken by the NCAA was insulting, and a flagrant abuse of power, we knew that good, well-meaning people were involved in the decision and we wanted to consider our reaction carefully.



We were initially stunned by the charge “abusive” and “hostile,” and then angry. We reflected and gave it a week before drafting this response. I must admit to sinking at one point during the past week to the notion that my Association was guilty of “political correctness run amok” as suggested by some papers.



We want to file an appeal, but first we need to know the basis for your decisions. We need the answers to some questions first, in other words.



I do not wish to take up the issue, here, of any absolute or general “correctness” of using American Indian imagery. Those on both sides of the issue have long ago made up their minds, and no amount of talking over many years seems to have moved anyone from one side of the issue to the other. Suffice it to say, some choose to be insulted by the use of these terms; others are befuddled by this reaction to what they consider to be an honor. What I would like to take up here is a matter of the appropriateness and legality of the NCAA’s action. I mean to take up the issue of whether the NCAA has gone over the edge and out of bounds in the action announced on Friday.


Is it the use of Indian names, images, and/or mascots to which you are opposed? If it is all of the above, which logos, images, and mascots do you indict by your announcement? Is it only certain ones? As I said, a very respected Indian artist designed and created a logo for the University. The logo is not unlike those found on United States coins and North Dakota highway patrol cars and highway signs. So we can’t imagine that the use of this image is “abusive” or “hostile” in any sense of these words.


Is it the use of the names of tribes that you find hostile and abusive?



Not long ago I took a trip to make a proposal to establish an epidemiological program to support American Indian health throughout the Upper Great Plains. On this trip I left a state called North Dakota. (Dakota is one of the names the indigenous people of this region actually call themselves.) I flew over South Dakota, crossing the Sioux River several times, and finally landed in Sioux City, Iowa, just south of Sioux Falls, South Dakota. The airplane in which I traveled that day was called a Cheyenne.



I think you should find my confusion here understandable, since obviously if we were to call our teams “The Dakotans,” we would actually be in more direct violation of what apparently you are trying to establish as a rule, even though this is the name of our state. This situation, of course, is not unlike that faced by our sister institution in Illinois.


Is it only when some well-meaning people object to the use of the names of tribes? If so, what standard did you use to decide where the line from acceptable to “hostile” and “abusive” is crossed? We note that you exempted a school with a certain percentage of American Indian students. We have more than 400 American Indian students here. Who decided that a certain percentage was okay, but our percentage was not? Where is the line between okay and hostile/abusive?



We have two Sioux tribes based here in North Dakota. One has, in fact, objected to our use of the name, “Sioux,” applied to our sports teams. The other said it was okay, provided that we took steps to ensure that some good comes of it, in educating people and students about the cultural heritage of this region. This mix of opinions is apparently not unlike that faced by our sister institution in Florida.


Is it only about applying names to sports teams? If so, would this be extended to the use of the names of all people, or is it just American Indians? Why would you exempt the “Fighting Irish” from your consideration, for example? Or “Vikings,” which are really fighting Scandinavians, or “Warriors,” which I suppose could be described as fighting anybodies? Wouldn’t it be “discrimination on account of race” to have a policy that applies to Indians but not to Scandinavians or the Irish, or anybody else for that matter? This seems especially profound in light of a letter to me from President Brand (8/9/05) in which he, in very broad-brush fashion and inconsistent with the NCAA’s recent much narrower pronouncement, said, “we believe that mascots, nicknames or images deemed hostile or abusive in terms of race, ethnicity or national origin should not be visible at our events.” (my emphasis)



As to the flagrant abuse of power question, I want to make sure I have this straight. We’ve recently built some magnificent facilities costing well over $100 million, under rules permitting us to host championship tournaments and otherwise participate fully in NCAA sanctioned activities, in which the very architecture of the building incorporates names and images of American Indian people. Do you really expect us now to spend large amounts of money to erase what we consider to be respectful images and names of Indian people who inhabited this region in the interest of the NCAA Executive Committee?



Hostile and abusive??



Help me understand why you think “hostile and abusive” applies to us. We have more than 25 separate programs in support of American Indian students here receiving high-end university educations. Included among these is an “Indians Into Medicine” program, now 30+ years running, that has generated 20 percent of all American Indian doctors in the United States. We have a similar program in Nursing, one in Clinical Psychology, and we are about to launch an “Indians into Aviation” program in conjunction with our world-class Odegard School of Aerospace Sciences. I am very proud when I visit reservations in our state to see that a large number of the teachers, doctors, Tribal College presidents, and other leaders are graduates of the University of North Dakota.



Do you really expect us to host a tournament in which these names and images are covered in some way that would imply that we are ashamed of them?



Concerning tournaments already scheduled: Is the NCAA taking the position that it can actually unilaterally modify a contract already made? Perhaps the charge (sometimes heard) that the NCAA exhibits too much of the arrogance that comes from its status as a monopoly – apart from the question of whether it’s an effective organization – does indeed have a basis.



If the NCAA has all this power, why not use it to restore intercollegiate athletics to the ideal of sportsmanship by decoupling intercollegiate athletics from its corruption by big budgets? Why not use the power to put a halt to the out-of-control financial arms race that threatens to corrupt even higher education itself?



Yes, I know that in theory the NCAA is actually an association, and that UND is a member of it, and therefore it’s really we who are doing all of these things to ourselves, or failing to do all of these things ourselves. But is the NCAA really a democratic organization? Why did we not put these issues to a vote by all member schools??



In his USA Today essay, Myles Brand proclaimed that this is a teachable moment, suggesting that the NCAA decision is “aimed at initiating a discussion on a national basis about how American Indians have been characterized . . . .” Great idea! Let’s have the discussion – one that we should have had before this ruling was handed down, one that actually includes American Indians and puts this in the perspective of all that is important to them at this time in history. And while we are at it, why not also address the state of intercollegiate athletics – whether or not student-athletes at some schools are being exploited, and whether or not there is an out-of-control financial “arms race” threatening the integrity of higher education itself.



In considering how to appeal, we find it exasperating that we can’t tell what the basis for your initial decision was and how you singled us out in the first place. In a letter from Myles Brand to me (8/9/05) he suggests that we could, in an appeal, argue that our symbols or mascots do not create a hostile or abusive environment. But his letter also seems to suggest that as long as some think the environment is hostile, case closed.

[sahen]

By the way, the last time this issue was stirred up on our campus, a formal charge was made to the Office for Civil Rights that the use of our logo or nickname created a hostile environment here at the University. The Office for Civil Rights sent a half-dozen people to our campus. They fanned out across campus and after more than a week here, found no such thing. Did the Executive Committee find some things they missed, perhaps? Or does a committee in Indianapolis trump the Office for Civil Rights here, on the ground, in North Dakota?



Finally, I expect that we will file an appeal, because should we wish to take this issue to court, the courts would undoubtedly ask if we have exhausted all administrative remedies. Please send us the appropriate application forms, and give us an indication of how the appeal will be heard and when. If the timing of this appeal were such that your deadline occurs before the appeal is resolved, we would ask that the deadline be put off, otherwise we may well have to go to the expense of seeking an injunction halting the imposition of these policies until all of our questions can be answered satisfactorily.



We thank you in advance for considering our questions.



Sincerely,



Charles E. Kupchella

President



CEK/cw



NOTE:

Charles Kupchella is President of the University of North Dakota (UND). The University offers some 25 program in support of American Indian students, has a degree program in Indian Studies and has, and has had, dozens of cooperative programs on reservations throughout North Dakota. UND serves more than 400 American Indian students on its Grand Forks campus. The University has competed in seven NCAA National Championship games since 1999 in both Division I and Division II.

[sahen]

that article is really long so it is split up in 2 posts, if you have the time though it is really an interesting read...so have fun

[Phantom Stang]

Originally posted by sahen
that article is really long so it is split up in 2 posts, if you have the time though it is really an interesting read...so have fun
It took some time to read, but was well worth it.

[NHSBulldog75]

Politicaly Correct?

I don't get it!

After a hundred years, it seems stupid to change the mascot of establishied teams.

PN-G Indians, Florida Seminoles, Fighting Illini, (and all the rest i'm sure) have never done anything but represent their mascot with pride and dignity, both on the field and courts as well as in the classroom.

Will professional sports teams (NFL's Washington or MLB's Cleveland) take the lead and change their mascots....I think not

The NCAA should spend their time and efort in trying to improve basketball's graduation rate and give up on banning team mascots and insignia from the post season tournaments.

That's just me....what do you think?

[sahen]

Originally posted by NHSBulldog75
Politicaly Correct?

I don't get it!

After a hundred years, it seems stupid to change the mascot of establishied teams.

PN-G Indians, Florida Seminoles, Fighting Illini, (and all the rest i'm sure) have never done anything but represent their mascot with pride and dignity, both on the field and courts as well as in the classroom.

Will professional sports teams (NFL's Washington or MLB's Cleveland) take the lead and change their mascots....I think not

The NCAA should spend their time and efort in trying to improve basketball's graduation rate and give up on banning team mascots and insignia from the post season tournaments.

That's just me....what do you think?

People have tried to get the Redskins to change names in the past...It hasn't happened but if one of them changed names i would guess they would be first...Meanwhile there has been no movement whatsoever that I have heard of in MLB to change either the Indians' or Braves' names...However Indians and Braves would have an easy argument that their name isnt offensive, the Redskins on the other hand could have some problems defending that...