Mad Cow disease discovered in US.....

[Old Cardinal]

Well by now you have heard that Mad Cow disease was discovered in Washington state......I understand that McDonald's is going to come out with a "Mad Mac"!......Seriously, stocks like- Landry's Seafood- are going to soar if this thing spreads.

[pakrat]

The sad thing is that not enough is known about it to convince me that the food supply is as safe as the Dept of Agriculture would have us believe.
When it first became known in England, the reccomendation was to eat only distal beef, that is beef cuts that are a good ways from the spinal cord and the major nerves coming out of it. That means round steak, etc. No ribs, T-bone, etc. Well, I would like to know how they can guarantee
that some other small nerve wouldn't be infected.
There are nerves everywhere in muscle, else the muscle fibers wouldn't contract. Some of you veterinarians out there please tell us what you know.

[Buccaneer]

Not only are ranchers going to suffer the economic impact but so are farmers. Less demand for beef will lower corn and sorghum prices. Corn futures dropped 8 cents today. Many 3A schools are in rural farming areas.

[Pudlugger]

It is way overblown. 153 people have died from the disease since it has been tracked in Great Britain and elsewhere. More people get killed in automobile accidents on the way to the supermarket in a year than that. The Senate passed a bill a while back that prohibited ranchers from feeding cow bone and tissue meal to cows but the House killed it. In Texas it is illegal to do this. That is how BSE gets in the herd. Texas beef should be okay but the Asian embargos are for all beef in the US. This is going to really hurt Texas. Fortunately, I just sold all my calfs this year but will have more to market in 6 months. Hopefully they will resolve the matter in time to safe the beef industry.

[Old Cardinal]

I agree this will have another economic impact on Texas, even if it's just the loss of beef sales to foreign markets. Metro is booming in Texas but rural areas are hurting. The oil is depleted and the good water is not as abundant in the stratas any more. I remember way back in the late sixties, a guy named Mickey Nunley out at Snyder who took action. As the paid employee for the Chamber of Commerce, he went out and located a Corporation willing to extract magnesium and other metals from the brine water that had encroached into the oil drilling depleted wells...A new innovative people will have to emerge that seeks new industry and commerce in Texas small towns...No longer can folks just rely on oil, cattle, and water resources to provide a living in rural Texas areas.

[Pudlugger]

Old Cardinal:
I agree this will have another economic impact on Texas, even if it's just the loss of beef sales to foreign markets. Metro is booming in Texas but rural areas are hurting. The oil is depleted and the good water is not as abundant in the stratas any more. I remember way back in the late sixties, a guy named Mickey Nunley out at Snyder who took action. As the paid employee for the Chamber of Commerce, he went out and located a Corporation willing to extract magnesium and other metals from the brine water that had encroached into the oil drilling depleted wells...A new innovative people will have to emerge that seeks new industry and commerce in Texas small towns...No longer can folks just rely on oil, cattle, and water resources to provide a living in rural Texas areas.Yeah and these new innovative folks better be vegatarians too 'cause the beef industry will be dead in a year if nothing is done to bail them out. Along with that you have the farmers who grow feed grain (Iowa, Kansas and Nebraska), the peripheral businesses like Wal-Mart, HEB, etc. plus public employers like school districts all taking a big hit. When the rural economies go south the people move to the cities. The welfare roles will expand and the infrastructure in the cities already stressed will be pushed to the breaking point. It is an election year so I expect a rush by politicians to bail out the hardest hit sectors, the small ranchers especially.

[Old Cardinal]

I don't think that the folks moving to the cities will be on welfare. We are booming with new commerce in the cities of Texas. Just take a drive down IH45 or 59 through Houston and you see nothing but advancing economy! There is a need for many new teachers in Texas, maybe not in the the pristine areas, but jobs waiting nevertheless. I don't think that we will all have to be vegetarians, if beef prices fall a bit. Texans have been able to be economically lazy, Example- we could manufacture finished products instead of sending our AG produced raw materials to other finished-product makers in other countries.
Look at the angora wool industry, why can't finished products like sweaters and coats be made in, say Lampasas instead of sending it all the way to England? Why can't we have giant leather factories turning out finished products for Texas jobs. Why can't we have furniture factories in East Texas to utilize our hardwood resources? Why can't we provide our nation with canned Texas meats? Why can't we build a cheeze and finisher assorted dairy-products factory, in say, Gilmer, to help utilize the Texas dairy industry production? Why can't we have a multitude of finished product manufacturers, like canned goods, in place to bring profitability to Texas AG production?....We operate like a third world producer of raw materials; instead of a profitable end-product producer! I think it is because we are wanting to rely on a long past raw-material-only based economy that is totally unprofitable. That inertia is proving all over rural Texas that that basic attitude just want cut it anymore!

<small>[ December 25, 2003, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[Pudlugger]

Old Cardinal:
I don't think that the folks moving to the cities will be on welfare. We are booming with new commerce in the cities of Texas. Just take a drive down IH45 or 59 through Houston and you see nothing but advancing economy! There is a need for many new teachers in Texas, maybe not in the the pristine areas, but jobs waiting nevertheless. I don't think that we will all have to be vegetarians, if beef prices fall a bit. Texans have been able to be economically lazy, Example- we could manufacture finished products instead of sending our AG produced raw materials to other finished-product makers in other countries.
Look at the angora wool industry, why can't finished products like sweaters and coats be made in, say Lampasas instead of sending it all the way to England? Why can't we have giant leather factories turning out finished products for Texas jobs. Why can't we have furniture factories in East Texas to utilize our hardwood resources? Why can't we provide our nation with canned Texas meats? Why can't we build a cheeze and finisher assorted dairy-products factory, in say, Gilmer, to help utilize the Texas dairy industry production? Why can't we have a multitude of finished product manufacturers, like canned goods, in place to bring profitability to Texas AG production?....We operate like a third world producer of raw materials; instead of a profitable end-product producer! I think it is because we are wanting to rely on a long past raw-material-only based economy that is totally unprofitable. That inertia is proving all over rural Texas that that basic attitude just want cut it anymore!I don't want to rain on your parade OldCardinal but you definitely are not up to date on what is happening in the world and in this country if you seriously think the US can compete with China, Mexico and other low wage countries in manufacturing. Liability issues, high costs of insurance, union demands for high wages, benifits and better working conditions, and government regulations including OSHA are the reason manuffacturers have moved overseas. They will never come back, you would have to pay $100 to buy a toaster made in the USA while WalMart can sell as good a toaster made in China for $15.95. You are kidding yourself to suggest that it would be profitable to manufacture goods like we used to. Times have changed, and I'm not saying it is good but I understand why they have changed. The number one industry in this country remains agriculture and you can't replace it with jobs in the cities.

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Gilmer will gladly host any new factories you can send our way. For some reason, though, (probably a desire for proximity to the greatest number of consumers) that type of factory is usually located in the big city. Also, this county does not have the number of dairies anymore that it once had.

The mad cow disease panic will no doubt hurt the beef cattle producers of Upshur County, who are far more numerous than those in the dairy business.

As for political impact, it will be nil. The posters on this board have long since convinced me Bush is King (to some he is close to being a deity) and should not even be forced to stand for election. He's good to go for the duration of "the war." He's got that Divine Right mojo going for him.

As a song ("Spirits in a Material World" by the Police) once said, "There is no political solution."

[Old Cardinal]

To Pud and to Buckeye: Yes I do believe that Rural Americans can compete in this worlds changing economy! I buy Initial Public Offerings and Secondary Offerings, available from Companies that are innovative and growing the USA Economy! I believe in the American dream and embrace it's risk-taking, profit-producing, "win-win" minded attitude out there in the world market. Presently, I am reading "Megatrends Asia" by John Naisbitt, it deals with eight asian megatrends that are reshaping our world....The world is begging for American goods(mostly those generated by innovation and unique technologies). In exchange, almost all 3rd world countries have to offer is menial manufactured goods.
Far-liberal media censorship has dulled the minds of many Americans into believing we cannot compete in a win-win world economy. Pud, I agree, we cannot manufacture and assemble low grade non-tech items and compete. We have to use our technological and management skill advantage to derive our profits!
New skills have to be mastered, I mentioned that I buy IPOs, allowing risk-takers to build profitability in the USA. It's not a "we-win-they lose" situation. When the standard of living goes up on both sides of the ocean, we all live a more abundant lifestyle! My IRA and savings rose 42% since August 28 because I still believe in investing in the great American dream. I made 9 trades yesterday on the stock market, all with the hopes of supporting the risk-takers of America..Zig Zigler, once stated "If you spend your time trying to help others rise; then you will never have to worry about your own well being."
I would suggest you read a good book, "God wants you to be Rich" by Paul Zane Pilzer(he had a PhD in Economics from Chandler at 24 years of age). It's a Christian book that helps people realize their right to an abundant life and the stewardship aspects that can be embraced because of expendable wealth to help the plight of others.....Go to -BibilioFind- via Google search engine and you can get a used copy for about $8.00.
Yes, I think rural Texas can join the expanding National economy that grew 8.7% last month! It will take a major attitude change. I can't see why a big, say, pharmacutical manufacturer can't set up and be profitable in Gilmer, Bellville, Muleshoe, etc:, and I can't see why Texas AG goods can't be processed in mega-technologically advanced plants, instead of sending things to Chicago, or somewhere, to turn it into a finished product...On the political issues you raised, all I can say is-I used to be a Democrat, but then I got a job!....Trial lawyers and Beatnik-minded far-left liberals like Howard Dean have ruined the Democratic party. All that are following them are the crybabies, parasites, and those looking for a government free ride some way or another.

<small>[ December 25, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Old Cardinal, it looks to me like the biggest "government free ride" of 2003 has been achieved by the Halliburton corporation. It pays to have friends (and former CEOs) in high places. You can't get a much better ride than 'cost-plus' contracts for which you are the only bidder.

I am already fairly rich, particularly by Upshur County standards. God has already been very good to me. As an example: at 2 p.m. on Sunday, Nov. 9, I was walking along a street in Gilmer and was hit head-on by an out-of-control woman driver who had looked in the back seat to tell her kids something. She was in a Chevrolet Suburban doing about 40 mph.

Although I broke my pelvis in three places, both collarbones, three ribs, numerous bones in three fingers on my right hand (which was basically crushed by the impact), and collapsed a lung, I am now more or less fully recovered.

I was life-flighted to ETMC Level I Trauma Unit in Tyler and was in critical condition for several days. But God had already let me know in my spirit that there was absolutely no reason to fear and every reason to have His peace that passeth all understanding. I was released from the hospital on Dec. 2.

This is why I was absent from this board during the Buckeyes' commendable playoff run to the Region II final where they fell to the eventual state champions from Atlanta. Good to be back and hope everyone reading this had a wonderful Christmas and has a blessed New Year.

[poncho]

Gilmer Buckeye:
Old Cardinal, it looks to me like the biggest "government free ride" of 2003 has been achieved by the Halliburton corporation. It pays to have friends (and former CEOs) in high places. You can't get a much better ride than 'cost-plus' contracts for which you are the only bidder.

I am already fairly rich, particularly by Upshur County standards. God has already been very good to me. As an example: at 2 p.m. on Sunday, Nov. 9, I was walking along a street in Gilmer and was hit head-on by an out-of-control woman driver who had looked in the back seat to tell her kids something. She was in a Chevrolet Suburban doing about 40 mph.

Although I broke my pelvis in three places, both collarbones, three ribs, numerous bones in three fingers on my right hand (which was basically crushed by the impact), and collapsed a lung, I am now more or less fully recovered.

I was life-flighted to ETMC Level I Trauma Unit in Tyler and was in critical condition for several days. But God had already let me know in my spirit that there was absolutely no reason to fear and every reason to have His peace that passeth all understanding. I was released from the hospital on Dec. 2.

This is why I was absent from this board during the Buckeyes' commendable playoff run to the Region II final where they fell to the eventual state champions from Atlanta. Good to be back and hope everyone reading this had a wonderful Christmas and has a blessed New Year.Man..may god continue to bless you my friend. wink

[vet93]

Pakrat...there are no guarantees in life...especially when you are discussing complex biological systems. However, I believe that our meat supply is the safest in the world and that the risks are minimal. Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (aka BSE or Mad Cow disease) has shown (to date) a specific predilection for the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) and not the peripheral nervous system. This also correlates with similar lesions seen in other species such as Chronic Wasting Disease of the Deer family and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease of people. The term encephalopathy describes brain disease...not neuropathy which would describe a generalized disease of the nervous tissue. Does this mean that BSE can't infect peripheral nerves? No, but what it does mean is that to date...the disease has not been shown to invade peripheral nerves. Therefore, I think that the recommendations that you mentioned are valid and can be followed without having to worry. Having said all of this...some people have to always worry about something and will not let an issue like this go...to lend perspective to this worry though...lets just say that you would have a much bigger chance of being struck by lightening than from dying from a BSE related illness.


pakrat:
The sad thing is that not enough is known about it to convince me that the food supply is as safe as the Dept of Agriculture would have us believe.
When it first became known in England, the reccomendation was to eat only distal beef, that is beef cuts that are a good ways from the spinal cord and the major nerves coming out of it. That means round steak, etc. No ribs, T-bone, etc. Well, I would like to know how they can guarantee
that some other small nerve wouldn't be infected.
There are nerves everywhere in muscle, else the muscle fibers wouldn't contract. Some of you veterinarians out there please tell us what you know.

[Pudlugger]

OldCardinal, I commend you for your optimism and belief in the American dream and for the most part share your views on economic expansion based on innovation and new markets. I also share your political views, as I see the left-wing as a pernicious element subverting the minds of our students and undermining the institutions and foundations of our free-market representative democracy-the envy of the world. If the lefties want their socialist -Marxist utopia let them go live in Canada or France. The left-wing has infiltrated our public schools, colleges, universities, and churches. They are co-opting the democratic process by furthering their agenda through the activist court system, mass media and entertainment industry, and through control of the leadership of university faculty and churches. I disagree with Gilmer Buckeye's politics, although I am relieved to hear he survived that awful accident. One tough old cuss!

[Old Cardinal]

To Buckeye and Pudlugger: I come on a little strong, but I believe that seems to be the jest of the people on the board. Buckeye, in 1993 I lay in intensive care for weeks till they found I had a disease called Wegener's Granulomytosis-basically my bodies immune system had turned on itself and it was systematically trying to reject all my own organs. I took chemo and predinzone daily for quite sometime-- till I became incapatable to that regiment. Today I take auto-immune supressent drugs(anti-rejection drugs) on an experimental basis and Praise God-- it's working. Buckeye, it sure puts a new prespective on life to survive a near death experience, doesn't it? I think that has helped me become an optimist and a risk-taker.... Pud, I enjoy you, I do worry that the cattle industry survive and prosper in these difficult times. It may be a good time to change out your stock for registered stock if the prices get close between them.. That happened in around 1973 and folks that traded out for registered stock have been better off for the long pull....I think the USA is on the threshhold of an economic turnaround that is unknown in recent history.

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[J-town Hustler]

I have this relative that was in her fifties that supposivly died of this disease, in Nacogdoches. (According to the Docs) They said that it laid dormant in her system for many years and just now decided to make its move. Since it affects others in different ways and all. Just thought that I would say something.

[Old Cardinal]

To J-Town Hustler: The disease WG is many times mis-diagnosed. Many hundreds across the world die each year without a proper diagnoses. I had a friend who came to me that said his brother had finally been diagnosed with WG the day before he died-it was too late to save him. I know a
Doctor who has three recent diagnoses that were in the later stages when they came to him-two died and they were able to save the other! Go to "Wegener's Granulomytosis" on the Google search to get further info on this unusual and deadly disease.

[Ranger Mom]

Can someone a little more knowledgeable explain something to me??

I heard a little snippet on one of the news channels yesterday, but wasn't paying close enough attention to get the entire story. I remember it saying something about this only affecting cows and most of your finer cut of beef come from steers (which don't get the disease). If I heard correctly, it seemed to me that ground beef was the main concern. Is this correct? I know next to nothing about cows, bulls, steers, etc.