A Must read Post!!!!!!!

[cunbed10]

I want everyone to read Old Cardinal's post on ...Observation of towns in region III, and give me a honest opinion on old card's meaning of the town of Marlin(slums, government housing)

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: cunbed10 ]</small>

[Old Cardinal]

Cunbed10, I am sorry you think that my observation of Marlin is racist, I was only saddened at the deteriation of a beautiful little town. I really don't have any idea what the racial makeup of Marlin is, and am not a racist. I just know that it looks as if all the industry and businesses have pulled out of town. I hope that your town will somehow be able to prosper in the future!... Best of luck on the football field.

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[rholl]

I read OC's post.....and my opinion is......he wrote what he saw! If your town has slums it has slums. Nothing wrong with it!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ranger Mom]

I can see where a "home towner" may get their back up when it comes to someone talking about their town. But...I have to side with Old Card on this one. I don't think he meant anything derogatory (my word of the day wink ) by his statement, I feel he just called it as he saw it.

I went through my old town a few months ago, and I don't think anything has been done there since I left 20 years ago. Sad...but true.

[Cameronbystander]

If it helps any, I like the golf course at the country club. It's fun to play and always in good condition.

[trojandad]

RangerMom, what you're forgetting is that this chatboard is filled with men who wake up to find very large women in curlers bending over stoves before they get their shower or morning coffee and know if they, as you said, "call it as they see it" they are deadmen. eek! eek! eek!

Smart men know some things just are better left unsaid, whether they are "seen" or not. Old Card knows that, he's not dumb.

[Ranger Mom]

Oh Good Gosh!!! Talk about apples and oranges!!

This conversation is just too stupid for me to continue. I said what I had to say - on TWO different threads now.

[trojandad]

LOL @ two different things.

All you guys who believe they are different stand on your head.

God bless wives in curlers and home towns.

I gotta see this Marlin town. Let's meet up in the Region finals, how about it?!?

[Gilmer Buckeye]

I have no idea what anyone meant. And I have never been to Marlin that I know of.

I have heard my grandmother used to go there many years ago for mineral bath treatments. That business must have literally dried up.

You know, there are dying small towns all across the South and probably all across the country. There's nothing left but a Wal-Mart at the edge of town. Sometimes, if the town is too small and off the beaten path, there's not even that.

And in those dying towns are folks of every race, color and creed. Some of them have even returned home from the big cities where there are no jobs either.

Long live Bush, as some of you might say, especially the lady from Midland. Forgive me if I stereotype you wrongly.

[Old Cardinal]

To RangerMom: I am sorry you have taken a bashing over this issue....It is a little ironic that the people from Marlin have agreed that the local situation is not the best; yet, are a little ticked, that I, matter of factly, pointed it out-while trying to show the diversity of the various school disticts represented, in 3A. Trojandad, has shone himself to be a little caustic himself; while trying to create a mountain-out-of-a-molehill.

[Ranger Mom]

Don't worry about it OC, those guys don't bother me in the least!! :rolleyes:

I like these contraversial posts anyway, they keep me on my toes (and away from stoves and curlers....LOL). :D

[Ranger Mom]

Gilmer Buckeye:

Long live Bush, as some of you might say, especially the lady from Midland. Forgive me if I stereotype you wrongly.Well, I don't know if you have stereotyped me wrongly, or not. Frankly, I don't have a CLUE what you are talking about!!

But hey....thanks for calling me a lady...I think!
http://www.msfn.org/board/html/emoticons/thumbup.gif

[cunbed10]

Old Cardinal:
To RangerMom: I am sorry you have taken a bashing over this issue....It is a little ironic that the people from Marlin have agreed that the local situation is not the best; yet, are a little ticked, that I, matter of factly, pointed it out-while trying to show the diversity of the various school disticts represented, in 3A. Trojandad, has shone himself to be a little caustic himself; while trying to create a mountain-out-of-a-molehill.Trojandad, and myself noticed out of all the towns mentioned, Marlin took this hardest hit. You said that 15 years ago was when you were last here, well, I left Marlin for the Navy 15 years ago and there were the same government housing here then, see, no new government housing has been built in the past 15 years, now The VA left in 2002Dec a couple of businesses has pulled out in 2003, but slums, and government housing, come on! Trojandad stood up for what he believed and Rangermom stood up for what she believed, so if you'll all think that this is petti, then say what you seen on every town and if it's negative like the Marlin post was, watch how many posts come up.

[trojandad]

See, OC knows when he's using inflammatory words. He just doesn't know debate.

Absolutely nobody has "bashed" any female here, OC. We're even giving you the benefit that you haven't bashed. As usual, it's not reciprocated from you, bud.

Anyone who knows enough to describe housing as "subsidized" understands that title is not on a building but is assumed. Why OC assumed is between he and His Maker. But he's smart enough to know his inference. Victim or no. (darn that truth thing).

Bring on the next accusation, my friend. Lean toward the truth on every occasion, if you would.

BTW, that was a good one, Mom. LOL

[Phil C]

I know San Antonio has some slums also but they are also the home of the San Antonio Spurs the 2003 NBA Champions who won it by beating the Nets in June!

BEST NBA SERIES WE EVER HAD!!

BY THE WAY ESPN: "WHERE'S THE CAT?"

[cunbed10]

I'm personally inviting everyone, if in the area, stop by and see Marlin for yourself, great food, great folk, and just great smalltown living. Oh yeah, treat the water like you would if you were in Mexico, I don't think that problem has be addressed yet.

[trojandad]

ROFL @ Phil.......

[Gilmer Buckeye]

RangerMom, what I meant was that there are all these struggling-to-make-ends-meet jobless or nearly-so good ol' boys out here in all these dying Southern towns who worship El Presidente Gee Dubya Bush, and I figured since you were from his hometown, you were probably a big fan as well.

I wouldn't have brought this up at all but for reading some other political posts on this board the other day. I am now going to drop the subject. And the reason America is descending into Third World status is not just the fault of the GOP. There's enough blame to go around.

I'll take discussing Texas high school football over politics any day. There is far more honor and integrity in the former.

[JasperDog94]

Funny how this thread has taken a turn away from talk about the towns and towards whether or not OC is being unfair. (or racist in an earlier post)

While driving through many towns, you can draw the wrong conclusions, depending on which part of town you drive through. Jasper, for instance, has government housing (aka slums) but they are not near the major roads, so you probably won't see them. Maybe Marlin's are closer to the road. I don't really know or care.

The original post was about his "Observations" about some of the towns. OC did not, in any way, say that Marlin was a decrepit old town full of nothing but slums and government housing. His "observation" was that Marlin has changed. He even mentioned that it used to be a beautiful little community.

I think we need to get over ourselves and not jump to conclusions about what someone may or may not have meant. OC is a standup guy. He's not here to make inflamatory remarks and then watch the aftermath. He's been around awhile and hopefully will stick around for a lot longer.

Good luck this year OC and Bridge City. :D :D :D

[trojandad]

Bulldog, I agree with every part of what you said, save and except for the "standup" part. OC gets a little rope on different posts until he hangs himself with it. I think everyone likes him and wants to believe the best for and from him, but eventually he steps across a line because of grace shown in the past.

Every once in a while a thread has to be made to stop the "line crossing". It's no big deal. But I think everyone who's been here any amount of time knows if Cunbed had used the same terms about Bridge City they would have had to pull the paddles out for our friend OC.

He's a big boy and he made his choice of words. If he chooses to stick by his choice, then I'm happy people call him to task. I just hope we give each person on each side of this the same descriptive terms. All are defending their positions, whether they are "stupid" "caustic" "standup" or "Spurs". LOL.

[Ranger Mom]

Gilmer Buckeye:
RangerMom, what I meant was that there are all these struggling-to-make-ends-meet jobless or nearly-so good ol' boys out here in all these dying Southern towns who worship El Presidente Gee Dubya Bush, and I figured since you were from his hometown, you were probably a big fan as well.
I'm not a very political person. I DID vote for Bush, mainly because I didn't like my other choice!! But, I am better off today than I was 4 years ago, I make almost twice what I did at that time! And...that's all I have to say about that!!

[espn1]

OC was stating an opinion nothing more or less. To pull a race card out of that is the most rediculous thing I have ever seen in my life. Welcome to the Democratic Party. Somebody the other day from Forney said Burnet was a podunk little town. You didn't see any of us sniffling and crying. I say bring me some government cheese, a coke and lets play football.

[Ranger Mom]

http://kit.netpoets.net/sun-done2.gif

[Gilmer Buckeye]

I don't want to start a separate thread on it, but I would like to nominate Daingerfield as the most "Marlin-like" town in Region II.

Lone Star Steel used to employ more than 6,000 workers at union wages until the early 1980s. Everyone in Daingerfield and Lone Star had a high-paying job, whether they'd gone to college or not. Now it's still in business, but its contributions to the local economy pale in comparison to those days.

The leading industry, believe it or not, in football-proud Daingerfield, is a huge downtown law firm. Morris County is known as "litigation heaven" in trial lawyer circles.

BTW, for any of D'field Tigers on the board, Gilmer's economy has suffered, too, from Lone Star Steel's downsizing over the years. People would live in Gilmer and commute there. It's only 20 miles away.

It's funny about these depressed small towns. Apparently everyone moves away but the football players. Daingerfield and Marlin are both still state championship contenders.

[Old Cardinal]

To Gilmer Buckeye: I have been to Gilmer, and I know that the dairy farming prices on milk products collapsed and there were some tough times during the 1990s, you folks seem to be quite presistent and innovative in developing new alternative money-making industry. Good luck to Gilmer, Tx, also.

[Gobbla2001]

I find it very sad that when Bush is using our money to save our 'lives', people are complaining about not having the money to save the 'comfortability' of our lives... I know the economy is crappy, and I know that it headed that way during the Bush term... But I also know and realize that we were attacked once (once too many) and he's doing everything he can to try and make sure it doesn't happen again...

Go on, keep worrying about your money... I might not have all of the money in the world, but I have my life, dangit!

Too many people just think life's a cake-walk...

[zeke]

All across America, there is a massive decline in manufacturing which just a couple of decades ago comprised 40% of the American economy. 3/4 of our manufacturing has now relocated overseas. Wanted to share this little bit of info, just so you will be aware why you may no longer be hearing about big layoffs and plant closings in the future.
On Christmas Eve 2002, the U.S. Labor Department announced that it would no longer collect or publish data on mass factory closings/layoffs across the United States. Their rationale was that although the Labor Department operates on a $44 billion a year budget, the $6 million spent on this report could be better used elsewhere.
Ultimately, this cut off was not about saving taxpayer money, but avoiding political embarrassment. Yet while this particular messenger to the American people is dead, the problem remains. With or without the layoff reports, hundreds of US based companies are closing their doors every month, permanently putting many tens of thousands of US workers into the unemployment line.
This was not supposed to happen as a succession of Presidents and national leaders promised the American people that passage of NAFTA, WTO, the African Trade Deal, the Caribbean Act, and the congressional ratification of China¹s membership in the World Trade Organization would result in greater job security not less, and the creation of more and better jobs, not fewer with less pay. Yet, this is what is happening.
The trade deficit shows that Americans are now spending $1 million per minute more than they are able to produce and sell. How much longer can the world's only remaining superpower sustain this level of living beyond its means?

[slpybear the bullfan]

Gilmer Buckeye:
And the reason America is descending into Third World status is not just the fault of the GOP. There's enough blame to go around.
Your comment along the lines of "America's Descent in a Third World Country" really interested me.

Uhhh... where are you living? If you had any experience with a third world country then you would realize how ridiculous that statement was. If you want to compare prosperity around the old globe and compare America's wealth per capita to other nations, you will be blown away. It isn't just all the quote, Rich People. What we consider low-income is incredibly well off when you look across the seas, (or south of our border). There is REAL poverty out there. Whole villages, towns, and nations of it.

All that third world country crap just reeks of "poor pitiful me I didn't make as much off of the stocks last year and now my insurance rates are climbing..." It IS like your parents told you. There ARE starving kids who would what you wouldn't on your plate. And there ARE lots of Nations filled with that type of poverty.

I am sorry in advance if I read more into that comment of yours, but that was a Hot Opinion you threw out there.

And as long as the pontificating goes on...

GW has a whole lot less to do with the economy than anyone would believe. As did Clinton, Regan, Bush Sr., etc. Folks, Presidents just don't have near the impact on what we generally call, "The Economy" as people think. They aren't all powerful, and they have far less control over world affairs than we give them credit for. Think of the literally hundreds of thousands of things going on every day in this country that have an impact on the GDP. And people think that the President keeps up with each and every movement in the business world? No way folks, it just can't happen.

What happens is that we use the Presidential election to vote our pocketbook. It isn't right, its just the way it is. And accepted, too. For example, GW knows that he didn't ask for 9/11 to put a damper on a recovering economy. But he also knows that he has to provide as much focus as he can to jumpstart the economy. He can't actually do a whole lot, but he will do what he can. As did almost all the Presidents before him.

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Gobbla, I don't know if you've ever read the book "1984" by George Orwell.

We're now living it. "Perpetual war for perpetual peace."

The Powers That Be who have ordered this are above even Gee Dubya. He is merely the puppet. Just MHO. Meanwhile, let's enjoy another great season of Texas high school football.

If we could ever figure out how to export this product, we could balance the books tomorrow. Sadly, the rest of the world seems to prefer soccer. eek!

We ought to be teaching those Arabs to play football. :D

[Ranger Mom]

Dang it all - this up and turned into a political thread afterall!!!! :mad:

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Bullfan, believe it or not, I agree with most of what you said. It's amazing to see how forgiving people are, though, of the man in the White House now compared to how they viewed the one who was in there a few years ago.

I just think there are malevolent forces at work who are very cleverly using the average American's kneejerk patriotism to seal our collective doom. Call me a conspiracy nut, but this is what I see.

I also must admit I have always been instinctively distrustful of the U.S. federal government, irrespective of which political party is in charge of it. This is a typical Texan and Southern point of view, BTW, and has been ever since about the mid-1800s.

I live in East Texas. We are gradually losing our manufacturing base up here. This was caused by deliberate policies of both parties. You're right. We're not Mexico yet. But we are not what we were 30 years ago either when a man with a high school diploma could support his family.

All the futuristic books written in that era indicated that the main problem by the year 2000 would be what to do with our leisure time as everyone would be wealthy because of productivity gains.

I am probably better off than 90 percent of the posters on this board. I work every day, but I don't have to in a purely financial sense. I enjoy my work. I want everyone to have work they can both enjoy and make a living at. Perhaps I am asking too much. "Perpetual war" can take a lot of people's eyes off the ball, so to speak, and not worry about the disastrous state of this nation's finances, including its balance of payments with the rest of the world, but eventually the piper will have to be paid.

I am for policies that will bring back the middle class (that's the key to avoiding Third World status). It may take a while, but we have to get started. Remember the First Rule of Holes. "When in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Sorry about that, Ranger Mom.

I was just answering back. I ought to just let others have the last word, I suppose. I respect everyone's opinions. In that sense, we are still freer than many countries around the world.

At least we've been giving the good folks in Marlin a break. :D

[sinton66]

Let me ask one question here. How many of you folks that are complaining about the economy and the loss of industry and jobs and such actually drive an American made vehicle? The free and relaxed trade with foreign nations is what got us where we are. Now ask yourself a question, who was it that pushed for Nafta and normal relations with China and all the rest? Start buying American first if you want to stop it.

[Ranger Mom]

No problem Buckeye. We may not see eye to eye on political issues, but you seem like a stand up guy and....you called me a "lady" instead of a girl, chick, etc. For that reason, I have bestowed a 5 star rating on you. :D

[Ranger Mom]

UH OH.....my "girliness" is coming out. I drive a Suburban..is that American??

[sinton66]

Yup, certainly tis! wink I'm a Ford man myself. Only thing better than a Ford truck is the next bigger Ford truck! :D

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[Ranger Mom]

LOL...I'm married to a "Chevy Man" myself.

[sinton66]

Oh well, I won't hold that against you. :D

[Chief Woodman]

Per the government and the UN about five years ago....The annual per capitol income in Texas.....$14,000.00. Per capitol income wordwide including the USA....$800.00 We are all a lot better off than we think, it is just that we compare ourselves to what we see around us here at home.
As far as the "Foreign" vehicle issue...I drive a 1999 Suburban...but it was built in Canada. My dad-in-law who is retired from GM says that almost EVERY Ford and GM vehicle in the USA has parts in it from another nation or was partially assembled outside the USA. The exception? Believe it or not it is a "foreign" model that whos parts are manufactured and assembled here in the states. So look close when you buy, it may not be as American as you think.

[slpybear the bullfan]

Very good posts all...

Sinton, Mom, and Wood are all correct on the car thing. There is a sticker on your door that tells you what % of the content is American. That is a pretty interesting item! BTW... GM has 2/3 of Tahoes and Burbs and their GMC counterparts made in Arlington, TX. They are relocating the business from Canada to make it 100%.

Gilmer, yeah, I hear you on what you are saying... I personally am Deep-South/Texan mixed and decidedly right of center. It is extremely enticing to go down that "conspiracy" road at times. When I see it, here are a couple of things that I remember, (just my $.02)...

1.) Our government is an extremely short-term government and full of different interests. Lots of politicos get in it and spend the majority of the time making sure their nest is feathered and championing their particular pork. Kind of hard to gather that coalition for any length of time or for any particular subject.

2.) When jobs go overseas, it is almost always a business decision. No one ever promised the US that they could preserve our businesses... If it can be done cheaper/faster/better by the competition, then you had better change or you will lose. That's kind of simplistic, but true.

Phew... I agree, let's forget the guv.. stuff, let's talk football!!!

[Xtex]

So the Doe Eye has nominated D'field as the Marlin of reg II, eh? Wow, Marlin beat Ennis last year, so gee thanks Doe Eye! Being this IS football season and all, this comes as a great compliment. As for the attempted save at the end of your post, not even close. And tell us about pristine Gilmer why don't you? geez..... BTW, LSS and Swepco, although devaluated from years past are still the primary sources of local income for the DISD, not Harold Nix and associates!

[spiveyrat]

You guys get a grip.
OC made an incomplete OBSERVATION, that's all. He drove by the community and spoke of what he saw. He didn't drive up and down every street and interview every person. He merely passed by giving him only a 2 dimensional view of each community he passed through. Depending on what was on his route through the town is what he reported on.

People drive through Jasper on Highway 96 every day. They see very few houses. But they do see many businesses. Because they see few houses, does that mean Jasper must have a tiny population? Of course not! All 7000 Jasper citizens don't live on Hwy 96. Gimme a break! :rolleyes:

[Ranger Mom]

spiveyrat:
You guys get a grip.
OC made an incomplete OBSERVATION, that's all...... Gimme a break! :rolleyes: LOL!!! That's what I'M saying!!! :D

[pirate4state]

espn1:
Somebody the other day from Forney said Burnet was a podunk little town. You didn't see any of us sniffling and crying. I say bring me some government cheese, a coke and lets play football.http://fp.funfiles.plus.com/animated_emoticons/emotes_t/toasting_someone.gif I'll drink to that!!!

[cubs]

Well, folks, nt everybody has the means to live in the "pretty" neighborhoods and I can see how offense was taken to this post. Someone can talk about their own "family" but outsiders are not afforded the privilege and that's ok. Some people do not have an education ... they do not have high paying jobs ... therefore they live in what they can afford. And, by the way, things are not always as they seem on the insides of those "pretty" neighborhoods, either.

[cubs]

Well, folks, not everybody has the means to live in the "pretty" neighborhoods and I can see how offense was taken to this post. Someone can talk about their own "family" but outsiders are not afforded the privilege and that's ok. Some people do not have an education ... they do not have high paying jobs ... therefore they live in what they can afford. And, by the way, things are not always as they seem on the insides of those "pretty" neighborhoods, either.

[trojandad]

Young ball player on my shoulder had this observation: "Isn't it amazing that the only common thread for both sides of this discussion have been the two terms "Lighten up" and "Gimme a break" and neither side is any lighter or broken?" Too funny.

[FBmania]

To OldCard: You seem to have a knack for poking the hornets nest. :D Although at first glance it came off a little rough, most of us in here know your style and realize it was merely an observation. Good luck to your Cards this year.

BTW I have enjoyed the humorous slant to your other posts hear of late! Keep it up! :D

[zeke]

Thought a few of you might be interested in some numbers that we never see reported by the media. These are the numbers compiled by the Department of Commerce for the year 2002. Isn't it amazing how much we are spending on foreign made products in relation to what we are spending on everything else?

IMPORTS OF GOODS = $1.32 Trillion
EXPORTS OF GOODS = $757 Billion
Trade Deficit Of Goods 2002 = $563 Billion

United States Federal, State, Local Government Expenditures = $1.713 Trillion

2002 Personal Consumption Expenditures of Goods and Sevices by Businesses and Citizens of United States = $6.576 Trillion

Gross Private Domestic Investment = $1.59 Trillion

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Xtex and Old Cardinal have both asked about the Gilmer economy, so here goes:

First of all, Old Cardinal mentioned dairies. I think we only have fewer than a dozen left out in the county. We never were as dependent on them as Hopkins County was. There are a lot of chicken houses, though, raising poultry for Bo Pilgim. More going in all the time. Lots of beef cattle, too, of course.

Gilmer is the county seat of Upshur County. We are the headquarters for rural telephone and electric cooperatives which cover this and a number of surrounding counties. They are major factors. We have a couple of factories left, including Robroy Industries, Airmax, CSI, etc. We have a pretty good airport at the edge of town which has recently completed some new hangars. But Gilmer is not booming and hasn't been flush with prosperity in at least 20 years.

As I say, we are close enough to Daingerfield to where there are some similarities. Lone Star Steel is about 12 miles from downtown D'field and 20 miles from downtown Gilmer. When I was a kid, my family belonged to a "blue-collar" country club. About half the Gilmer Country Club's members worked at LSS, it seemed like.

We had a lumber mill close down a couple of years ago, dealing quite a blow. Timber prices are down in general these days, I hear. But our lumber mill went down due to a Harold Nix-style lawsuit against the firm; also was hurt by Canadian imports which even our government has alleged were "dumped" on our U.S. market, even though the U.S. lost the case filed under some provision of NAFTA, I think.

Gilmer is a "bedroom community" of Longview and, to a lesser extent, Tyler. Our hospital is now reopening under the auspices of East Texas Medical Center of Tyler. This will create 35 to 40 jobs. It had been closed for nearly 10 years. We only had an emergency room.

Our Main Street program is attempting to revive downtown with some success, but the big Wal-Mart Supercenter at the edge of town is what is known in the retail trade as a "category killer." Still, it could be even worse. Wal-Marts have been known to come in and kill a downtown area (Hearne, Texas, comes to mind) and then the Wal-Mart closes, too!

Good luck to the D'field Tigers this regular season and we look forward to the rematch. May both teams still be undefeated when the day of that classic game arrives.

BTW, my late next-door neighbor used to try cases with Harold Nix. He is no doubt one hell of a plaintiff's attorney, worth hundreds of millions of dollars from the tobacco settlement alone, much less what he tried to "shake down" the Lone Star Steel suppliers for. I am even a non-practicing lawyer myself, and if I now practiced law, I would no doubt support his various causes.

One thing is for sure. You should never invite Harold Nix and "tort reformer" George W. Bush to the same party. Nix would rather run with the Don Henley environmentalist crowd any day. Nix is not "with Bush" which must mean, as we all know from GW's speeches, he is "with the terrorists." :D

[Old Cardinal]

What a wonderful report from Gilmer, Texas...I would hope the dairy industry comes back; along with new industry to energize your area! The "Main Street" program across the USA, as a phenomenon, is quite a positive move for a town with a little drive and innovation. Gilmer is not a crybaby town, they seem to roll with the economic punches and connect a few when the time is right....There are some very interesting statistics(on the net); on the growth of Texas towns and cities, population-wise, and also per capita income per family....Towns like Stafford, etc: have an incredible income per capital-but that is surely not a statistical factor on how their HS athletic programs are successful or not. I would publish some of the data on growth(or loss), via census publications. It would give some accurate projections as to who will grow out of 3A and who will drop out of 3A, but I am sure someone would have a fit if the census report on their town or county was not to their liking.....By the way I am a staunch Geo. W. Bush fan and see Texas as one of the very fastest population and economic growth States in America. I understand that "trial lawyers" are almost 100% left-wing Democrats, I was just wondering if you had been a trial lawyer, in your earlier days?

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Old Cardinal ]</small>

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Old Cardinal, I share your love of statistics. Gilmer per se is not really growing, but Upshur County is approaching double the population it had in my youth 30 years ago. This is due to proximity of the southeastern half of the county to Longview.

Gilmer ISD is having a difficult time passing a badly-needed bond issue. This time the board members are lowering their expectations and just trying for a new elementary school. The last try in 1998 was voted down 70-30 in percentage terms. The next try will be on Sept. 13. The present structure was built in 1939. The district is now populated with lots of retirees from the Dallas area who have no connection to GISD. But they DO vote! Gilmer, as you probably know, will remain 3A as far as the eye can see. We only had 630 in the top four grades as of the last report.

I also appreciate your comments there about Gilmer's tenacity, etc. I forgot to mention our annual fall festival, the East Texas Yamboree. Y'all come. This year it is being held Oct. 15-18.

One of the main problems, of course, is lack of education of the populace, along with what I consider to be failed economic policies going back about 30 or 40 years now. This whole move toward "globalism" and a New World Order (first proclaimed by Daddy Bush, BTW) was always destined to be hell economically on rural areas. The "pundits" and "think tankers" who came up with the plans at their secret meetings have even admitted that. They want everyone to move to the cities so they can be controlled better by Big Brother. The countryside is slated to be a huge "ecological reserve" so "Mother Earth" can rest.

I got out of UT Law School in the mid-80s and took a job an independent oilman had offered me instead of practicing law. I resigned that post when oil prices collapsed. I could have stayed on, but it was rather depressing to watch that industry go down. I knew it wasn't really coming back, even as Lone Star Steel (which makes what is called "oil country tubular goods") will never return to the heyday of 6,500 people on the payroll at union wages. Talk about a "multiplier effect." But, of course, Texas is a "right-to-work" state and so there was always turmoil involved between that steelworkers' union and the larger community of "Babbitts" and "scabs" etc.

No, I have never been a trial lawyer, but "some of my best friends" are. I am now in a business basically unrelated to my legal training, and have assumed "inactive" status in terms of the State Bar.

As for your hero in the White House (well, actually, it's still August, so he's still in Crawford and only halfway through his vacation), history will judge him (his advisers actually; he's truly just a figurehead; even moreso than Reagan, IMHO) as one of the worst. Just MHO. He may give LBJ a run for his money. He's trying the same strategy: guns and butter. There is nothing conservative about any of this. As I said before, he is way down there in the $43-trillion-in-debt financial well frantically digging us into a deeper hole and won't look up to see if anyone disagrees. He has ignored the First Rule of Holes.

As to someone previously saying we should just shut up about the poor economy and that we just don't appreciate GW Bush trying to "save" us, I guess I would say I have a different Savior. In my reading of Scripture, it is clear that Satan and Jesus Christ had a conversation during which it was revealed that Satan controlled the "kingdoms of this earth" and would turn them over to Christ if He would only bow down and worship Satan. Christ, of course, refused. This was one of the Temptations in the wilderness.

When I look back over the actions of the various governments of the world (today's "kingdoms of this earth") over the past bloodiest century in human history, I come to the inescapable conclusion that Satan is still in control of all those governments. But the good news is that his time is short.

[sinton66]

Where do you guys get this garbage? Every single economic indicator is on an upswing and has been every month for the last six months in a row. The deficit is the only thing that isn't under control yet, but give GW time and he'll get that in check too. Unemployment is down, production is up, stock market's climbing, etc, etc. Quit buying into the Demo's political spin crap and do some investigating and thinking for yourselves. Folks in this country need to start questioning the sources and figuring out the spin doctors.

[Gilmer Buckeye]

I hate to have to break it to you, but unemployment is actually at a 10-year high. And even this statistic is not accurate as the way it is calculated has been changed since then. The true figure of unemployed and underemployed comes out to a figure of about 10.3 percent, IIRC.

But, hey, I'm not worried, because I'm rich. Guess I shouldn't give a damn about my less fortunate brothers and sisters out there.

Politics is not like football to me. I'm not on "Team Bush" and I wasn't on "Team Clinton." A pox on ALL of their Satan-worshipping houses.

BTW, I couldn't pass up posting this photo I just saw on Yahoo! News. Sure enough, there GW is with his shovel getting ready to dig that debt and deficit hole deeper.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030815/capt.1060981538.bush_cavan107.jpg

[3afan]

just because their views are different from yours does not make the "Satan worshipping" references fair - thats going a bit too far IMHO

[sinton66]

The biggest contributor to the deficit has been the war effort in Iraq. What was GW supposed to do, forgive our enemies and kiss up like Jimmy Carter did? Don't get me wrong, JC is a fine humanitarian, but he was a disaster as a president. Despite whatever "spin" you want to put on it, the economy is in recovery according to all the indicators. Unemployment is going down. It hasn't reached the bottom yet, but the last six months are showing a decline in those numbers. Don't even start with that "underemployed" crap, that's just a choice people make for their own convieniences. If you don't like the job you have, do what thousands of others have done, get an education and get a better job. My wife is 51 yrs. old, and just finished getting her Master's degree from Texas A&M Corpus Christi. My daughter will get her Master's from there in December. Both will take a year off to concentrate on their jobs and have some time off for a change, then both will go back for their Doctorates.
The bottom line is, take responsibility for your own lives and do whatever it takes to better yourselves. Simply quit looking for the government to hand you everything you need to survive.

[Gilmer Buckeye]

As I say, I'm rich. What do I care what the actual unemployment rate is? Guess I should stop worrying about it. It makes me seem too much like a Democrat.

You mentioned the war. I don't think you want to go there. Even many of the reservists who were unexpectedly called up don't want to go there. And the ones stuck there are saying they want to come back. Just as they were promised: "Your ticket home goes through Baghdad" was what their superiors said to them before the invasion, which was unprovoked and opposed by most of the world and even many of our generals. There's just been a massive purge of the Army's high command so that only "yes men" are left.

This war was supposed to pay for itself. Halliburton was supposed to be pumping six million barrels of oil a day by now. The grateful Iraqis were supposed to welcome us in Baghdad with ticker-tape parades to thank us for ridding them of the evil dictator who, it turns out through debriefing of the captured "deck of cards" aides, had no ties to Al Qaeda, and whose weapons of mass destruction we still haven't found (although probably some are being planted as we speak).

According to the plain language of at least two of the four Gospels, Satan is in control of the governments of this world. That's what I meant by that reference. In order to take the reins of any influential government in this world, you must metaphorically bow down to Satan. There's not an official ceremony or anything.

[sinton66]

As for "not going there" about the war, I can see you and I are from two different planets. We have a philosophical difference that won't be bridged on here. I don't care what the rest of the world (or the peaceniks in this country)thought about it, they weren't the ones who were attacked. The efforts in Afganistan and Iraq were and still are necessary first, for our safety, and second, for security the world around.
As far as the guardsmen, why do you think they join the guard instead of the regular army? They obviously didn't want to go fight. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans don't see it that way any longer. The Guard isn't a "safe haven" anymore. Look at it this way, if they didn't want to fight, why did they join a volunteer military organization? We all make our own choices, and must live by them.

[Gilmer Buckeye]

And now you have come full circle back to my original observation.

You are in favor of "perpetual war for perpetual peace." That's straight out of the George Orwell novel called "1984" which described how a totalitarian "Big Brother" government came to power and governed.

The ones who were mouthing off most loudly last month were not reservists. They were members of the Third Infantry Division from Fort Stewart, Ga. Their comments were broadcast live on "Good Morning, America." One asked for Sec'y Rumsfeld's resignation and the other said he and his soldiers had a new "deck of cards" with Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.'s faces on them.

I don't blame these fellows at all. They were lied to before the war and they are still being lied to.

Here are some Rudyard Kipling lines which may hit too close to home for some:

'Common Form'

If any question why we died,
Tell them, because our fathers lied.

'A Dead Statesman'

I could not dig: I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?

<small>[ August 16, 2003, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Gilmer Buckeye ]</small>

[3afan]

ugh ....... spare us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[sinton66]

Geez, no one lied to them. The Dems are gonna have a lot of "egg" on their faces about two weeks before the election over this "lying" B.S. No one in his right mind is interested in "perpetual war". Bush is only doing what I would have done if I were in his place. Was 9-11 a lie? Was Hussein making $25,000 payments to the families of homicide bombers a lie? Were the chemical weapons he used on his own people a lie? Were his medium range missles that he launched at Kuwait a lie? When they finally make public what they have already found, are you gonna come back on here and eat crow?

[sinton66]

never mind.

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[Gilmer Buckeye]

Let's assume (which I don't, BTW) that the lying federal government's version of what really happened on 9-11 is correct. The federal government operates under the assumption that it is always best to lie even when the truth would serve it better.

Even by the habitually lying feds' own version of the events, 15 of the 19 so-called hijackers (an aside: autopsies revealed no Arab bodies were found inside the plane that hit the Pentagon; this was finally released under FOIA request in about June) were said to be from Saudi Arabia. NONE, not one, was from Iraq. And, of course, the supposed mastermind of the whole deal, Osama bin Laden (who is possibly in reality still a CIA 'asset' as his family and the Bush family are longtime business partners), is a Saudi. He may be "estranged" from his family, but our federal government sure took care of all the bin Ladens when they flew them out of Boston and elsewhere the day after 9-11 when all other aviation in this country was still grounded. If the bin Ladens are so dangerous, why weren't they at least detained a little while for questioning? A little time in 'Gitmo' might have revealed a treasure trove of info, UNLESS the 'bad boy' of the bin Laden clan is still with the 'Company.'

So what do we do? We bomb the 'bleep' out of Iraq; meanwhile GHW (Daddy) Bush and family go on doing business through the Carlyle Group with their best buddies, the Saudis.

An analogous situation would be if a group of Louisiana terrorists also led by someone from Louisiana blew up Mecca, and some Arab country with business dealings in Louisiana retaliated by destroying everything in Texas.

Or, to bring it down to the level of a football game: Your star quarterback (Saudi Arabia) rapes and 'knocks up' the head cheerleader and 'knocks over' a convenience store, etc. Of course, justice demands that someone on the "Arab team" has to be punished for such "indiscretions."

You think long and hard. So you decide to kick the right guard off the team. After all, he may not have been involved in the wrongdoing, but he is one of "them"--"them" being the "jocks."

And, as we all know, the "jocks" are all the same; it's always a good idea to punish them so as to 'send a message' to the others.

Plus, you've salvaged your "season" (continued highly profitable business dealings with the Saudis). Everyone is happy and you go on to win the state championship (a second term in office).

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Gilmer Buckeye ]</small>

[sinton66]

I see, so, just because Iraqis weren't on the planes on 9-11, they can't possibly have any ties to Al-Quida (despite the fact we destroyed a training camp used by them in Northern Iraq), they are peace-loving goobers who were only trying get along with the entire world, when the bad 'ol US led by madman Bush just up and attacked them for no reason what-so-ever. Are you related to URBUDDAH? You sound just like him. I'm glad that you're here to b*tch and moan about all of this instead of being over there helping to protect our backs. I'll say once again that at least GW has shown there is a use for "cahones" besides getting them "massaged" beneath the big desk in the oval office. :p Like I said, we're obviously from different planets, and the gap won't be bridged on here.

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[Old Cardinal]

To Mr. Gilmer, I believe that may son did a worthy cause in fighting in Iraq(and winning the Bronze Star), to help stop the agression of harsh Dictators and Terrorist that are linked philosophically-to victimize this Country and the rest of the Democratic world..I salute the young boys and girls that went, and are going, into harms way to protect the future for Americans, even Lawyers that look at our imperfect but blood-bought freedom through the ages, with such callousness and distain. I am proud that you can live comfortablely in a nice little town like Gilmer, while good people put their lives on the line in dirty dark places where the enemy is hard to recognize. I thought I could be a radical, but I promise- you are ten times more radical than I am-yours being Liberal, mine being Conservative.

[JKLL]

Same old story, you don't agree with bush's policies on just about any subject and you get branded a liberal traitor. 66 with your undaunted support for all of this and your great admiration for anything bush what on earth or you doing sitting in your cushy Magnolia home when you could be volunteering your services for a free and liberated Iraq. You can use this little shot at people who don't agree with you so how about it? I'm sure you are looking up your local recruiter as I type to find out what it is, no matter what, you can do to get in on the action. OC, nobody is questioning the troops doing what they are ordered to do but you also feel you better because you agree and others don't. Never forget this country was founded by the voice of dessint. There were those colonists who supported the British. Whenever we refuse to listen to the voice of those who disagree is when we will begin the journey to our destruction. You can be a loyal American without having your head buried in the sand.

[Gilmer Buckeye]

sinton66, I promise I am going to let you and Old Cardinal more or less have the last word here. I think we can agree to disagree. But I must correct one inaccuracy you have just repeated.

Yes, it is true that a training camp linked to Al Qaeda was destroyed in northern Iraq. However, ever since Desert Storm in 1991, northern Iraq has been controlled by the Kurds as their own autonomous region (it usually has been called the "northern no-fly zone" by our media), who are mostly on the U.S. side. That's why you don't hear of much resistance to the U.S. occupation in that area. In fact, I've read that's where the soldiers go for "R&R" as it is a mountainous region with a cooler climate.

If that was an Al Qaeda camp as advertised, it was under the control of the Kurds for the past 12 years and not the regime of Saddam Hussein. So now we must bomb our friends, the Kurds, for having harbored this camp, right?

Old Cardinal, thanks for calling me a "radical"--you have made my day. I am a radical libertarian, but I can understand how you would think that to be "liberal" instead. Our Founding Fathers called themselves "liberals" and today they would be called "libertarians." They did not believe in having standing armies at the beck and call of an all-powerful federal government. They believed in state militias.

Libertarians would rather there not be so many wars, but if there are to be wars, let's let the private sector do it. Let the big corporations fight their own wars for control of natural resources with their own private armies and leave the debt-strangled U.S. taxpayers out of it.

As a matter of fact, if you check out some of Rumsfeld's proposals, that's where he's headed next--to privatize as many functions of the U.S. military as possible.

If Xtex is reading this, you missed one helluva scrimmage by the "doe-eyes" last night in Chapel Hill, but you've got a good point about our lack of playoff success. Touché.

However, I must once again take up for Coach Traylor in stating that he has never predicted a state championship. The "liberal media"
:D misquoted him. He is confident, but he is not brash or arrogant enough to say such a thing without even having won a playoff game yet.

[sinton66]

The Kurds weren't in charge of anything in Iraq as long as Hussein was in power. That's like saying the US is in charge of Cuba just because we have a base there. Give us all a break, just because you jokers are naive, that doesn't mean all of us are. Your statements like this last one are so absurd, they simply defy logic. You obviously have a political agenda here that I will not be a part of any longer. Therefore, whether this is the "last word" or not, this is my last post on this subject.

And, as a side-note for jkll, you have no idea what you're talking about.(1) I'm not a "mindless" follower. (2)I live in a travel trailer in Magnolia in order to have been able to afford a wife and two kids in college.(3) I'm 55 years old, and served in the U.S. Navy during the Viet Nam war. What's your excuse?

<small>[ August 17, 2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[Gobbla2001]

I think before one starts dishing out factual statements, they need to dish out the facts behind those factual statements (you know, a SOURCE)... I've seen too many people making their arguments based on rumors started by some flop out there who shouldn't be allowed to litter the internet with his views, which have NO sources...

If you don't have a source in your argument against the leader of our country, don't post it, cuz you're just tickin' us off, and it'll start some BS arguement that will drive away new posters...

[Gobbla2001]

And lay off of the natural resources arguement...

That's such a cop-out... But if it were true, you using all of that gas to go to work etc... helped pursuade our country to fight for the oil etc...

You support HS Football right? How many gallons of gas etc... are used each year by the transportation of our athletes AND the transportation of fans that are following...

If this is why we're over there, you helped cause the problem, so just deal with it...

[JasperDog94]

Gilmer Buckeye
[QBOur Founding Fathers called themselves "liberals" and today they would be called "libertarians." They did not believe in having standing armies at the beck and call of an all-powerful federal government. They believed in state militias.

Libertarians would rather there not be so many wars, but if there are to be wars, let's let the private sector do it. Let the big corporations fight their own wars for control of natural resources with their own private armies and leave the debt-strangled U.S. taxpayers out of it.
[/QB]Are you even serious?!? You honestly think that our founding fathers would be libertarian? WOW! eek! I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

As for privitizing the military...you have got to be out of your mind. If we allowed that, anyone with a few bucks could go hire a bunch of mercenaries for whatever reason they deemed necessary. Please take no offense to this, but that's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. That's just what this country needs. If you have enough money, hire a bunch of thugs and you can fight for whatever you want. You got enough money to take over Cuba, go ahead. It's now a private affair. Texas, you want to reclaim your original borders from Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Kansas? Go for it. It's a private matter.

I think I made my point. :rolleyes:

[Chief Woodman]

Will 3A football ever be discussed here?

[Ranger Mom]

Probably not on this thread!! :D

[sinton66]

Be fair folks, this thread never was about football in the first place. wink

Better?

<small>[ August 19, 2003, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[Ranger Mom]

sinton66:
Be fair guys, this thread never was about football in the first place. wink HEY!!!!! I'm a "girl"!!! :)

[sinton66]

HEY!!!!! I'm a "girl"!!! You know, I came away from meeting you with that very impression. Thanks for confirming that for me. :D Seriously, sorry about that, changed "guys" to "folks.

<small>[ August 19, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[Gobbla2001]

Oops, I always thought your name read Ranger_Dad (Yikes)...

Ha, just joshin' with ya Ranger_Mom!