Should a 5 year old be handcuffed??

[Ranger Mom]

What do YOU think??

CBS/AP) An attorney says he plans legal action against St. Petersburg (Fla.) police officers who handcuffed an unruly 5-year-old girl after she acted up in her kindergarten class.

A video camera, which was rolling March 14 as part of a teacher's classroom self-improvement exercise, captured images of the girl tearing papers off a bulletin board, climbing on a table and punching an assistant principal before police were called to Fairmount Park Elementary School.

Then it shows the child appearing to calm down before three officers approach, pin her arms behind her back and put on handcuffs as she screamed, "No!"

Largo, Fla., lawyer John Trevena, who provided the tape to the media after obtaining it from police, says the officers went too far.

"The image itself will be seared into people's minds when you have three police officers bending a child over a table and forcibly handcuffing her," said Trevena, who represents the girl's mother, Inga Akins. "It's incomprehensible. ...There was no need for that."

"Certainly, she shouldn't have been arrested," Trevena told The Early Show co-anchor Harry Smith Monday. "There is certainly a better way of dealing with this situation. …The educators have available to them a number of resources: special counseling, alternative classes, special education. This girl should have been evaluated. She was identified as having problems. This child shouldn't be in the regular class if there was a problem."

Police declined to comment, citing an official complaint by Akins that has sparked an investigation by the supervisor of the four officers who were present. Two are new officers who were being trained that day.

Spokesman Bill Proffitt said the investigation would be complete in about two weeks and the findings would be made public.

The 30-minute tape shows assistant principal Nicole Dibenedetto trying repeatedly to calm down the girl, who ignores her commands and begins punching her. The child's mother was called, but wasn't able to immediately come to the school.

After placing the child in the back of a police cruiser, police released her to her mother when prosecutors informed them they wouldn't bring charges against a 5-year-old.

"You have to look at the whole history in this case," Trevena told Smith. "Apparently, there had been a previous conflict between the mother, the assistant principal, who you see in the video, and the child. And the mother's convinced that it was really just a personality conflict between the child and the assistant principal."

Why do the mother and Trevena plan to sue?

"Unfortunately, with our system of civil justice, the way that we handle these matters, is you have to sue someone in order to get reform. …To get the reform, you have to make them pay, because if you don't make them pay, they're never going to reform themselves. If they don't have to pony up, there never will be any change.

"The amount is unspecified at this point. We really are going to have to have the girl thoroughly evaluated by professionals to see what long-term damage is going to come of this. Clearly she was traumatized. …She's doing well in her new class. But we're concerned about the long-term effects of this."

Interview requests by The Early Show were denied by both St. Petersburg police and school officials.

[District303aPastPlayer]

she assulted the assistant principal... put her hands on a school official... she should be handcuffed... change of heart..

[HighSchool Fan]

it's hard to say RM. Logic tells us no. however, if someone put their hands on this child to control her, the mother would probably sue that person. if the school calls you and tells you that your kid is acting up, wouldn't you drop what your doing and go get your child. as much as i'm probably gonna be disagreed with, i think the right thing was done.

[lepfan]

I have an opinion on this....but I am not going to touch the issue! My words might not be taken in the way they were intended. :)

You need to be on the inside looking out before any judgment is made. (just a general statement not intended for anyone in particular)


Sometimes a "take down" or whatever you want to call it...is made for the safety of the student also.

[rockdale80]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
it's hard to say RM. Logic tells us no. however, if someone put their hands on this child to control her, the mother would probably sue that person. if the school calls you and tells you that your kid is acting up, wouldn't you drop what your doing and go get your child. as much as i'm probably gonna be disagreed with, i think the right thing was done.



especially with the amount of legal suits that are taking place these days. if the principle would have given her a few swats she would be punished or fired. of if she had tried to restrain the girl herself. a teachers and principles hands are tied when it comes to something like that. then the mom has the audacity to sue the city when the problem is obviously at home.

[pirate44]

if she was going "crazy" and could be harmful to HERSELF or others, i say cuff her. Like HSF said, if someone tried to restrain her, the child could have been hurt. while theyre at it, they need to cuff the mother, unfortunately, being an un-diciplining and stupid parent isnt against the law

[lepfan]

Not to mention any "touches" they could accuse the officers of.....

[Bandera YaYa]

As shocking as it looked..... to see a 5 yr old being cuffed, it was necessary for her safety. I seriously doubt she could have harmed anyone, but she was clearly out of control and the police followed procedures. I saw school personnel trying to get her to calm down without hurting her. If the little girl needs help, I certainly hope she gets it.....must be more than meets the eye here, as for as the mom is concerned.

[kaorder1999]

throw the book at her

[KTJ]

I saw the videotape.

If I was the parent, I would have been okay with them cuffing her. Because she would have gotten a lot worse punishment once she got home.

The moral of this post--KTJ's kids WILL NOT act like a fool in public.

[kaorder1999]

if she feels adult enough to hit people shes adult enough to be put in cuffs. Maybe she learned a lesson with this

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by KTJ
The moral of this post--KTJ's kids WILL NOT act like a fool in public. LOL. You might want to edit this later in life. You can't always control the way your kids act. What you can control is your response to their behavior.

Now if you had said "KTJ's kids WILL NOT act like a fool and public and go unpunished", that would be another story.:)

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
You can't always control the way your kids act. What you can control is your response to their behavior.



Amen Brother!!

[SPF25]

I agree the cops did the right thing. She was clearly being violent and unruly. They didnt have anymore options. Though it sounds extreme to me it was justified.

[CHS_CG]

I totally agree with what the cops did.. I was watchin CNN this morning and they had the childs lawyer on there and he was talkin about how they are goin to sue the police bc of wrongful arrest.. I guess I could be wrong but when you get arrested arent you TAKEN to jail and booked? The lil girl was just cuffed and sat in the back of the car till her mother could show up. They said that her mother is a nurse and had people to take care of that she couldnt drop her work right then. They also said that the mother, child and assisant principle have a "history" and do not get along.. so the lawyer was sayin "why send the assisant principle in when they dont get along." UMM HELLO It doesnt matter if they get along or not shes the assisant principle deal with it! I know in most schools the assisant principle deals with discipline. If the child cant behave in school.. and she cant be punished then the mother needs to do some serious thinking. If her daughter is already (as KTJ says) acting a fool at 5, Lord knows what she will get into in her teens.

[lepfan]

Call me about one of my kids acting a fool and I will cuff you if you didn't cuff them first....:D ;)

[HighSchool Fan]

Originally posted by CHS_CG
I was watchin CNN this morning

quit watching the devils channel :p :D

[lepfan]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Amen Brother!!

I second that.

[CHS_CG]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
quit watching the devils channel :p :D

theres not much on in the mornings.

[Owen B]

I don't have a problem with the police cuffing the girl but I do have a problem with professional educators not being able to handle the matter on their own, without calling the police. Fear of being sued has hogtied school teachers and administrators and made them afraid to use good judgment. I know this particular case isn't about stupid "zero tolerance" policies, but they stem from the same fear, and make not using good judgment part of school policy.

[Phil C]

I'm not going to get into an argument pro or con here but one thing for sure she will be aware of the possibilities of bad behavior.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Owen B
I don't have a problem with the police cuffing the girl but I do have a problem with professional educators not being able to handle the matter on their own, without calling the police. Fear of being sued has hogtied school teachers and administrators and made them afraid to use good judgment. I know this particular case isn't about stupid "zero tolerance" policies, but they stem from the same fear, and make not using good judgment part of school policy.

You got that right! This often-times silly society we live in now has us looking out for ourselves instead of directly resolving problems due to the threat of a lawsuit. I think it would be interesting to put a dollar amount on this child's tantrum... teacher/admin/janitor/police officer wages, transportation costs, damage, etc.

[big daddy russ]

Cuff her.

[HighSchool Fan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Cuff her.

and don't let her walk at graduation :D :p

[lepfan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Cuff her.

and then stuff her (in the back of the car).

[jason]

this wouldnt even be an argument if a 16 or 17 year old high student hit a teacher/school official...so, imo, id treat it the same way...

cuff her and teach her a lesson...
make her wear a prison jump suit to school for the rest of the year....

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
and don't let her walk at graduation :D :p
LOL.

[Holmes_Fans]

I heard on the news her mom is sueing the school and polic department

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by Phil C
I'm not going to get into an argument pro or con here but one thing for sure she will be aware of the possibilities of bad behavior. Something tells me she isn't going to recognize that concept

[AP Panther Fan]

Originally posted by Holmes_Fans
I heard on the news her mom is sueing the school and polic department

We the taxpayers pay for crap like this! You know what is bad?....the mom will win, make lots of money and the child will not even get the medical attention she probably needs.:mad:

[jason]

the teacher/school official who got hit should sue the child/parents....that would cancel out both lawsuits...

[lepfan]

Originally posted by Owen B
I do have a problem with professional educators not being able to handle the matter on their own, without calling the police. Fear of being sued has hogtied school teachers and administrators and made them afraid to use good judgment.

You have just struck the nerve of hell!

Crawl into the glass house and look out for a while.

Some of the issues that are brought with the children are not "matters of teachers/administrators". They are legal issues. Not every student who comes to the classroom is of the Ward Cleaver family. Teachers are there to teach NOT be officers of the law. If a teacher is attacked by a student (be it small or major) the police must be brought in. It is not that school officials are afraid of being sued! It does become a legal issue when the student crosses the line!

I can write you a book if you want...you won't win any argument with me on this issue.

[Phantom Stang]

From seeing the video clips, it looked as if cuffing the child may have been the safest thing to do for all parties concerned.
This is unfortunate, because a couple of whacks on her behind with a ruler at the outset could have probably solved everything. ;)

[pirate44]

hell hath no fury like lepfan scorned

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by pirate44
hell hath no fury like lepfan scorned My mom was secretary to elementary principal for 27 years...and there are some dang evil children in this world!!! (thanks to the lack of parenting skills at home) :eek: :eek: :D

[lepfan]

Originally posted by pirate44
hell hath no fury like lepfan scorned

You just remember that ;) .

Nahhh, I still owe you for the sig. :D .

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by pirate44
if she was going "crazy" and could be harmful to HERSELF or others, i say cuff her. Like HSF said, if someone tried to restrain her, the child could have been hurt. while theyre at it, they need to cuff the mother, unfortunately, being an un-diciplining and stupid parent isnt against the law

ITA Pirate44 - I have only seen bits on this on the news but from what I saw, the girl was totally out of control and the lady in the clip I saw as trying her best to subdue her - terrible situation for all concerned

[Phil C]

"There is no such thing as a bad boy." Father Flannagan of Boys
Town in the 1930s.

[lepfan]

Originally posted by Phil C
"There is no such thing as a bad boy." Father Flannagan of Boys
Town in the 1930s.

But, did he have anything to say about out of control little girls?

[Owen B]

Two things right up front, Lepfan: I could write you a book right back and I’m not trying to win an argument.

Beyond that, you read quite a bit into my previous post that wasn't there.

[pirate44]

Originally posted by lepfan
You just remember that ;) .

Nahhh, I still owe you for the sig. :D .
sigs are free of charge...for now.. :D

but i always fear you lepfan. especially once you get your bounty hunting business off the ground:eek:

[KTJ]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
LOL. You might want to edit this later in life. You can't always control the way your kids act. What you can control is your response to their behavior.

Now if you had said "KTJ's kids WILL NOT act like a fool and public and go unpunished", that would be another story.:)


Trust me....I definitely will be able to control my childs behavior, whether I'm around them or not.

They know what they'll have to answer to when they get home if they act up in public. :D

[lepfan]

Originally posted by Owen B
Two things right up front, Lepfan: I could write you a book right back and I’m not trying to win an argument.

Beyond that, you read quite a bit into my previous post that wasn't there.

I apologize for that...but the part that struck a nerve was only the part quoted....I read your post several times before I responded. I don't want an argument...just making a statement...you just can't put voice into words sometimes without them coming across totally different than you intended. Again, I apologize if I "misunderstood" what you were saying....I have just lived too much of this. The blame is always put on the educator and not where the initial problem is...HOME. (and that is how I took it:( )

[lepfan]

Originally posted by pirate44
sigs are free of charge...for now.. :D

but i always fear you lepfan. especially once you get your bounty hunting business off the ground:eek:

Can I get you to convince a few others of that "fear" ?;)

[Owen B]

I suppose I could have been more clear, lepfan. I was not not shifting primary responsibility away from the parents and I was not blaming the educators themselves. Rather, I was commiserating with them that our society has gotten so litigious that it hampers their ability to do their jobs as effectively as they otherwise could.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
What do YOU think??

The educators have available to them a number of resources: special counseling, alternative classes, special education. This girl should have been evaluated. She was identified as having problems. This child shouldn't be in the regular class if there was a problem."

If the girl did in fact have identifiable problems, then it was the responsibility of the mother, not the school, to see that the girl got the necessary help to control her problem and working with the school to see that she got help there. If the child is mentally challenged, special ed might help. But good Lord, special ed is not for children that their problem is they can't behave. :mad: The child was unruly and unfortunately educators' hands are tied many times when it comes to discipline.

I'm with lepfan - I could write a book. The first place children should be taught proper behavior is at home. They should also learn at home what the consequences are for not behaving. My children know full well that misbehaving at school means they have to deal with me when they get home.

[HighSchool Fan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
My children know full well that misbehaving at school means they have to deal with me when they get home.

they just don't know the consequences of coming home late :p

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
they just don't know the consequences of coming home late :p

Sure he does! I didn't say he was an angel.....far from it. I have rules - the kids know what they are. At 14, he is certainly old enough to decide to follow or break. :p And he was reminded real quick, I might add.

[lepfan]

My 13 soon to be 14 year old just got reminded of her place. Cop an attitude with me and you just might have to pick yourself up off the ground. (after regaining consciousness...did I spell that right)


*Disclaimer: NO I DO NOT BEAT MY CHILDREN...BUT I CAN THREATEN!!!

[HighSchool Fan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Sure he does! I didn't say he was an angel.....far from it. I have rules - the kids know what they are. At 14, he is certainly old enough to decide to follow or break. :p And he was reminded real quick, I might add.

don't be getting upset with me sis, i'm just yanking on your chain :D

[lepfan]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
don't be getting upset with me sis, i'm just yanking on your chain :D

I sensed a bit of *ahem* well, let's just say you better watch it bubba. ;)

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
don't be getting upset with me sis, i'm just yanking on your chain :D

Wasn't upset with you....just still aggravated at him. :evilgrin: To give him a "little" credit, he was actually starting to walk home when hubby found him.