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View Full Version : Maybe a simple way to level the playing field for Division I and Division II playoff



Old Cardinal
03-15-2005, 01:22 PM
I seems that every year since the two Division system was installed by the UIL very high enrollment schools end up in the Division II playoffs. I remember when Bandera was the State Champion of Division II after a medicore record and a 3rd place finish in District.
Here is the best way to level the playing field for the smaller schools to have a chance in the playoffs.

1. Have all schools that are above 800. or even 850(decision chosen & set by UIL figures) that are second or even third in enrollment to have play in Division I. That would mean that if there are two or even three extra-high enrollment schools that finish in the top three Districts spots they would have to play schools of like enrollment size.
2. Likewise, any school be the District Champ, second or even third in District that is under 600 in low enrollment Districts would automatically play in Division II. That would allow the largest school in a very low enrollment District to not have to play the mega-enrollment schools that are second or third in a high school enrollment District.
3. All other 3A mid range enrollment schools that place in 1st thru 3 spots would continue to play bracketed schedules just as they are doing now.

I am sure that those Districts that have two or three very high-enrollment schools will scream to high-heaven that their luck-of-the-draw advantage would be taken away.
This is the only way that Division II does not end up with the largest enrollment schools playing the higher bracketed games in each Region and beyond. That is what has happened now for years.
It is just not anywhere near fair that Division II small or midsize schools are having to compete with school that are near the top of the enrollment scheme of things.

I would appreciate comments from the lower enrollment schools followers about this modification to Division I and II. It would sure bring a sense of fairness to the UIL system....I ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE BIG ENROLLMENT SCHOOLS THAT PRESENTLY GET THE UNFAIR ADVANTAGE WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS METHOD OF LEVELING THE PLAYING FIELD! LOL :)

Again, please lets hear comments from the low and midsize schools represented on the message board.

pero chato
03-15-2005, 02:26 PM
I agree that there should be a better way of leveling the playing field for the smaller schools. The only problem I see with your method is playoff scheduling. We (Wylie) currently play District 3 in the first round of playoffs. If no school has enrollment above 800 in that district, then where do we go? Also, how many schools have enrollments over 800? There might be two or three rounds of byes if not enough schools are over 800. Maybe I missed your point, but bottom line, I can't see any large school objecting to playing other large schools in the playoffs. That's the reason the two divisions were created in the first place.

Bullaholic
03-15-2005, 02:42 PM
Old Card, I think what you have done with your post is make a case for creating more enrollment classifications. Many advocate this as a viable solution because of the number of schools in Texas, and this will have to ultimately be done as our population increases.

LH Panther Mom
03-15-2005, 02:51 PM
My initial thought was that this sounded like a great plan, since we're in the mid-size range (535.5). It would've put Jasper in D1. :D The more I thought about it though, I can see why the UIL would never adopt such a plan. Just setting brackets would be a nightmare as there would be no way to plan ahead, even at the division level.

If you take the 2004 playoff teams, 42 of the 96 have 600 students or less. 11 districts did not have a team that would've gone DII. 4 would not have had a DI rep. Basketball season would be 3/4 over before DI football was over. (Not a personal gripe on my part. ;) ) Unless the regional brackets were drawn from a hat, a team could potentially have to sit idle waiting on their next opponent.

OC, if you could find a feasible way to make it work, you have my vote for UIL director. :D

Old Cardinal
03-15-2005, 10:09 PM
L H Mom: Thank you for your research....Were you basing your numbers on the 800 or 850 enrollment in finding the high-end data?

LH Panther Mom
03-15-2005, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Old Cardinal
L H Mom: Thank you for your research....Were you basing your numbers on the 800 or 850 enrollment in finding the high-end data?

I actually forgot that part, but since I'm on vacation, I'll redo & let you know tomorrow.

Gobbla2001
03-15-2005, 10:25 PM
I really don't care right now... We're packin' 650 right now and knocked out two 4A drop downs in D1 playoffs this year.....

Oh, and our highest enrolled school in our district has 800+ students, which means for us to make D1 would mean they didn't make the playoffs... A team with an enrollment in the 500's beat them, as well as the lowest enrolled school in 3A, Hallettsville....

I see where the higher enrolled schools can have the advantage, but until they TRUELY have that advantage (which I don't see, Gilmer could have driven D1 nuts, and they beat Jasper, D1 enrollment school), they need to leave as is... Or actually, just go back to 1 division, two teams make the playoffs... Sealy didn't win 4 in a row with a high enrollment...

VWG
03-15-2005, 10:42 PM
I would rather see an elimination of DI and DII.
District champ gets a bye, and the rest play out in the first round.

Gobbla2001
03-15-2005, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by VWG
I would rather see an elimination of DI and DII.
District champ gets a bye, and the rest play out in the first round.

That'd work better than this...

They can atleast give the D1 champ a bye after they win, then play the D2 winner...

I'd rather just have two make it out of each district...

Old Dog
03-16-2005, 09:46 AM
VWG, I agree with you, the district champ should gain something for taking the title. If the UIL is against giving a bye, then at least the title should earn a team the home field advantage. I've also heard some coaches don't want a bye for fear of losing mometum.

JasperDog94
03-16-2005, 12:52 PM
If we keep D1 and D2 (which we are) there's an easier solution. Take all 24 teams that make the playoffs from each region. The top 8 are D1 and the bottom 16 are D2. You then draw numbers to see who plays who. Simple and you'd get a more representative number of big schools staying big school.

And OC I have to disagree with you on what big schools would say about your proposal. I said all last year that Jasper being D2 was unfair. The point of the two divisions was to get similar sized schools to match up against each other. That just doesn't happen very well with the current system. My system would be a lot closer.:)

LH Panther Mom
03-16-2005, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Old Cardinal
L H Mom: Thank you for your research....Were you basing your numbers on the 800 or 850 enrollment in finding the high-end data?

Okay, here's what I found. I used 800+ as automatic D1 and 600 or less as automatic D2. 2004 playoff teams with 600+, and no qualifying school had 800+, were put in D1 and the other 2 qualifiers in D2. I came up with 32 D1 & 64 D2 teams, the same as now. The main problem that I noticed was that 4 districts had 2 teams qualify at 800+ and 4 had all 3 teams at 600 or less.

Old Cardinal
03-16-2005, 02:52 PM
Your proposal sounds very usable. After the drawing for team opponents if two different sets of like-teams wanted to swap opponents to keep down the long driving distances-- what would be easy to set up if all four teams agreed. Midway game sites for distance contest would be another alternative that the distance factor could be addressed. As you well know, I start a lot of controversial threads just to get folks to put on their thinking caps--so don't blow my cover;) LOL
I have noticed that you have to take a lot of bull on here to get some interesting dialoque going that just might make UIL ruling changes some day a reality.

Let's hear some other folks ideas on how to make the whole system even better!