Realignment

[Matthew328]

In a little more than a year from now I think Class 3A will look vastly different from what it is right now...normally when the UIL realigns they start in Class 5A and work down....word is that the UIL is starting from Class 3A and working out...which is kind of odd but it tells me one thing...Class 3A is going to change one way or the other...I beleive that the cutoff between 3A and 4A is going to drop by a lot..possibly by as much as 50 students...this doesn't sound like much but it is...that means that a LOT of large 3A's likely will move back up to 4A or up to 4A for the first time..and we are talking about quite a few big names..Everman, Forney, Burnet, Jasper, Carthage, Canyon, Navasota, just to name a few..what do you think will happen?? Personally I'd like to see another class added to the mix...either a Class 6A at the top or possibly a Class B at the bottom..maybe that would help eliminate some of the number disparity at the lower levels..

[Chris Hart]

Matthew, I would favor the B class myself, but I don't see it happening. I remember a few months back the UIL voted NO to the 6A idea, but they released the projected #'s for the next reallignment. The numbers for 3A if I remember correctly were 450-939. If that is how it stays, Burnet will probably move up. If that happens, and Everman moves up also(I don't know), will there be a 4A Down Low in the future?

[Jacket2000]

This has come up before, and I can tell you that the site's focus will not change. Most of us were brought here b/c our respective teams were in 3a, but, as Im sure you can tell, the site goes way beyond our own teams. So, the format will not change.
J2K

[Matthew328]

LOL a 4A Down Low...that would be intersting...we'd have to get a LOT more students to move to J2K's high school for that...even if Everman moved up (which is very likely) I will still do the site baring a mjor change in my personal life...heck even though Aledo moved up a class bearcat has stuck around..why can't I? LOL

[Chris Hart]

Well it was worth a shot :) . Matthew, I think you could pull it off solo. Where would you and I talk about our beloved Bulldogs, surely we wouldn't hang around here with the little guys, would we? :D j/k

[wildstangs]

Look for Andrews to teeter around the cutoff number. I am sure rumors will fly about Wylie too, but I look for them to hang around in 3A longer. For Vet93, please raise the bottom cuttoff some so his Bearcats can drop into 2A and wreck shop!! :)

[VWG]

If the enrollment does go to around 450 to 950 you will also see a drop back to 2A for schools like Celina, Pilot Point, Van Alstyne... etc.
Plus, you could move Ballinger, Bowie, Childress, and maybe even Breckenridge into 2A as well. It could get interesting. How does Wylie control their numbers? They would seem like they would have to be around 800 to 900 + students now.

[RBARKER]

Jacket2000:
This has come up before, and I can tell you that the site's focus will not change. Most of us were brought here b/c our respective teams were in 3a, but, as Im sure you can tell, the site goes way beyond our own teams. So, the format will not change.
J2KJacket, I posted this on the suggestions board and thought I would bring it up here also. Would it be possible to add two more forums one for 2A and 4A that way we could still have a place to go and discuss our teams even though they have left the 3A ranks? The site focus would still remain 3A but we could still discuss our teams.

[crzyjournalist03]

Forney will almost certainly be 4A in the next realignment. We've known that since before the last realignment. We'll have to form new rivalries and everything without Crandall moving up with us, so here's hoping that the budding Everman-Forney rivalry continues to grow.

Administration around here really likes 3A though, and there's been serious talk of building a second high school that would be 2A or something so that we could stay in 3A, but I don't think they'll split the town like that, so for now, it looks like Forney is on its way out of 3A, at least for a while.

[Matthew328]

Yeah I don't think Forney would sacrifice the one school town just so their high schools could be small..Forney will be fine in Class 4A especially in football and baseball...the way Forney is growing they'll be a big 4A before long!

[vet93]

Wildstangs...thanks for thinking of us poor old Bearcats wink However, even 2A will be tough for us in the first year or two because we graduate the house next year (sometimes moving down a classification is not as easy as it sounds!) We have some strong younger classes coming up but they are a year or two away. I am actually lobbying the the UIL to link the top limit of 2A to the Ballinger enrollment and to exempt teams like Newton, Celina etc...from being able to move down to 2A with us. It never hurts to stack the deck :D


wildstangs:
Look for Andrews to teeter around the cutoff number. I am sure rumors will fly about Wylie too, but I look for them to hang around in 3A longer. For Vet93, please raise the bottom cuttoff some so his Bearcats can drop into 2A and wreck shop!! :)

[Old Dog]

Splitting up towns to maintain 4A or 3A status is many times the beginning of the end for the type of community involvement that most of us treasure so much!

[ThaRealBulldog]

Carthage wants to be 4a again thats where our rivals are.

[Rabbit'93]

Old Dog I think that is a rumor that someone started while standing around the water cooler. ie. " hey we should just build another school that way we could stay 3A, yuck yuck" pretty soon everyone is running around saying that we're gonna have two schools. I don't put much stock in it.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Even if they raise the enrollment figures for 3A, Port Isabel will still stay at home in 3A, where they belong. :D

[X21AAAPlayer]

Matthew328:
In a little more than a year from now I think Class 3A will look vastly different from what it is right now...normally when the UIL realigns they start in Class 5A and work down....word is that the UIL is starting from Class 3A and working out...which is kind of odd but it tells me one thing...Class 3A is going to change one way or the other...I beleive that the cutoff between 3A and 4A is going to drop by a lot..possibly by as much as 50 students...this doesn't sound like much but it is...that means that a LOT of large 3A's likely will move back up to 4A or up to 4A for the first time..and we are talking about quite a few big names..Everman, Forney, Burnet, Jasper, Carthage, Canyon, Navasota, just to name a few..what do you think will happen?? Personally I'd like to see another class added to the mix...either a Class 6A at the top or possibly a Class B at the bottom..maybe that would help eliminate some of the number disparity at the lower levels..Can't forget about Elgin. They had the largest enrollment for 3a schools. If the cutoff changes, exactly how many schools are in danger of moving classifications?

[VWG]

I think it's actually sad that towns like Forney, Aledo, and others get "sucked up" by the metro area and lose their 3A status. I can remember when Southlake Carrol was a country school and dominating 3A. Look at what's happened at Crowley's school district, and others. I think that the larger the school the more a numbers game it is for the kids, whether it be in athletics or the debate team. Would you really want your child going to a school where he is one of 1,600 kids or one out of 600?
It's great to see towns like Stephenville, Vernon, Perryton, Gainsville, Olney, etc... towns that stay in a class for a long period of time, whether it be 2A, 3A, or 4A. They have some tradition in that classification and are respected for that,..... but we can't stop the wheels of progress.

[Keith7]

Gainesville has been in 4A for a few years in the late 80's.. but we our town doesnt seem to be growin much and I see us at a decent size were its not likely that we move up anytime soon

[Old Cardinal]

If I were to guess 3A will end up 425 to 850. I think we will see a lot of west texas and east texas teams losing enrollment while towns near the big cities will be growing in enrollment. It looks dynamic and not static, what I don't like to see is a district with 9 teams and other districts with 5, that's not fair either.

[greendog fan]

Matthew328:
In a little more than a year from now I think Class 3A will look vastly different from what it is right now...normally when the UIL realigns they start in Class 5A and work down....word is that the UIL is starting from Class 3A and working out...which is kind of odd but it tells me one thing...Class 3A is going to change one way or the other...I beleive that the cutoff between 3A and 4A is going to drop by a lot..possibly by as much as 50 students...this doesn't sound like much but it is...that means that a LOT of large 3A's likely will move back up to 4A or up to 4A for the first time..and we are talking about quite a few big names..Everman, Forney, Burnet, Jasper, Carthage, Canyon, Navasota, just to name a few..what do you think will happen?? Personally I'd like to see another class added to the mix...either a Class 6A at the top or possibly a Class B at the bottom..maybe that would help eliminate some of the number disparity at the lower levels..Matt, I disagree with you on the 3a deal. Burnet will stay in 3a for the next 3 to 5 years. I look forward to see the realinement for 3a to move up to 550/ 1000 range. What ever Abilene Wylie is , Burnet will stay in that claaaifaciton. If Wylie moves up, so will Burnet

[Jacket2000]

If the rumor we've heard is true, then both Wylie and Burnet will probably be 4a. I personally dont like the idea b/c it's just shifting the imbalance from 3a to 4a. The only solution I see is to add at least 6a. Of course, as Ive posted before, I think a 7a would make it as close to perfect as it's gonna get.
J2K

[slpybear the bullfan]

Guys, I agree with most of the comments here...

Couple of my opinions...

1.) I am pretty sure that if realignment happens then 3A will shrink. 3A has the largest number of schools inside its "band" and so if you try and even that out some it is natural the band will shrink. Just my guess, but if I was a betting man I would say bottom comes up to 400 at least and top drops to 850 or so.

2.) Isn't there really 10 classifications right now? With the big school small school thing plust throw in 6 man and you have a ton of classifications really. IMHO, I would strike this Mickey Mouse Big School-Small School thing and go to 6 or 7 classifications period.

[Old Dog]

Slpybear.....I agree with you, but the ole UIL ain't gona do what we think is best. There just too much opportunity for them to make more money. I don't care who disagrees, but this two division championship is crap. I'd rather see more teams get a playoff shot than split the classifications into two divisions. Botteom line, WE NEED ONE CHAMP PER CLASS!!!!!!!

[PPHSfan]

Poor, Poor, 12-2A when Celina and Pilot Point drop back down.

[turbostud]

Poor, Poor, Region 2 when they drop back down. I would love to see Celina vs. Pilot Point for the region 2 championship. It probably wont ever happen in 3a, but it is quite possible when they drop back down to 2a.

[aamove]

Matthew328:
Yeah I don't think Forney would sacrifice the one school town just so their high schools could be small..Forney will be fine in Class 4A especially in football and baseball...the way Forney is growing they'll be a big 4A before long!Earlier in the School Year we were hearing talk about the district adding another Middle School, Two more Elementary Schools ( to add to the four we already have), and another High School on the north side of town. With over two thousand lots platted for home construction, Forney is certainly going to be 4A in the next allignment.
Forney will add over 300 homes by the end of this year and that figure may go as high as 600. In 2002 there were over 300 homes added and these figures are just within the city limits.
But, it only makes sense that Forney will stay a one High School town. The new stadium is being built to accomodate 4A crowds and could be expanded to 5A levels.
It is a given that Forney will be 4A in the next re-alignment. What really worries me is the jump to 5A and how quick that comes, which may come as early as 2008. It sort of reminds me of Southlake Carrol's jump from 3A all the way up to 5A in just a few years.

[crzyjournalist03]

I don't think Forney will be ready to become a 5A school when the time comes. There's been enough complaints about it going 4A. I can only imagine what people will think six years from now or so when Forney may be looking at going 5A. Forney's small town mentality doesn't want to become 5A. Things could start changing around here very soon.

[big daddy russ]

To some of you South Texas posters...

Just curious as to how the far-South Texas Districts (30-32) would look if this were to happen. I'm guessing Taft, Hebbronville, Bishop and possibly San Diego, Orange Grove and Lyford would drop.

If this happened, would they move Zapata into that southernmost district or would they move one of the valley teams north? I guess I could see a district with like Raymondville, Zapata, Falfurrias, West Oso, Mathis and someone else (probably Sinton, maybe Ingleside), but the amount each team would have to travel in that district would be crazy. Or would they throw in all the leftovers from both 30 and 31 into one district? If they didn't group all those 30's and 31's together and they went with the above mentioned district, you'd have Aransas Pass, either Sinton or Ingleside (or maybe both), and Goliad in that district on the north side of the Coastal Bend. But who else would they throw in a district like that? Yoakum?

I know it sounds like a stupid question, but it seems like driving expenses in that situation would be almost unbearable and I just can't see how they would group them. Any thoughts out there? Hannibal? 66?

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: big daddy russ ]</small>

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

I agree. The South Texas districts, 30-32 would look pretty odd to say the least. In district 32, Lyford and Progreso would drop, leaving Port Isabel, Rio Hondo, La Feria, Hidalgo, and Raymondville. Now that is a pretty solid 5 team district and would consider leaving it alone instead of having one or two of the current district 31 teams moving into district 32.

Now, if the high end ceiling for 3A enrollment goes down to 800, or 775, Raymondville, Zapata, and possibly even La Feria would all move up to 4A (unless they fib on their enrollment figures). With that scenario, that would leave only Port Isabel, Rio Hondo, and Hidalgo (Hidalgo is dangerously close to moving up to 4A themselves). Whatever happens, realignment is going to be a huge mess. I can easily see a district 32 consisting of Port Isabel, Rio Hondo, Hidalgo (if they don't move up), Falfurrias, and Bishop just to make it a 5 team district.

As far as district 30 and 31 go, it wouldn't surprise me to see some current members of district 27, 28, and 29 in districts 30 and 31. There will be some major shuffling around, who knows, I think it's going to be kinda fun to watch and see what happens.

[sinton66]

I doubt they would put 27,28,and 29 members that far south. Most likely, Sinton would go north. They have before. 27 would lose Goliad and Halletsville and gain Sinton. 30 would lose Sinton, Taft, and maybe West oso (they might choose to stay in 3A), and would probably pick up the eastern most member of 29, maybe Pearsall. 31 and 32 would likely end up added together and then split between two five team districts, with only Falfurrias and Zapata staying in the original 31. 28 would lose only Rice, and the rest could stay intact as a five team district. 31 and 32 would definitely be the hardest hit.
Just to throw in a monkey wrench, I think it would be neat for Sinton, Taft and Odem to consolidate. Buy a big farm out in the middle, and build a 4A maybe even 5A school. With Sinton and Odem making long runs in their respective playoffs, I don't think they'd have a problem competing. Taft has some good kids coming up too.

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[sinfan75]

I think Aransas Pass,Ingleside,Mathis and Sinton will all stay together,west Oso also if they stay in 3A,and adding Goliad and/or Orange Grove.

[sinton66]

I based my opinion on the numbers for 3A being around 450-850. That being the case, both Orange Grove and Goliad would probably drop to 2A.

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Ok, I went to the main UIL site and got all the current enrollment figures for Region IV and here is who would move up to 4A, or move down to 3A out of each district if the range for the new enrollment will be 800-450.

Region IV

District 25
Burnet 858 - 4A

District 26
Jourdanton 364.5 - 2A
Lytle 441 - 2A
Marion 396 - 2A

District 27
Goliad 434 - 2A
Hallettsville 384 - 2A

District 28
Altair Rice 447 - 2A

District 29
Cotulla 378 - 2A

District 30
CC West Oso 439 - 2A
Taft 382 - 2A

District 31
Bishop 357 - 2A
Hebbronville 352 - 2A
Orange Grove 442 - 2A
San Diego 432 - 2A
Zapata 824 - 4A

District 32
No Change

Now, the teams that would be left after we take all of the above out of the equation.

District 25 - Bandera, Liberty Hill, Ingram Moore, Llano, Wimberley

District 26 - La Vernia, Somerset, Poteet, S. San Antonio West

District 27 - Cuero, Gonzalez, Luling, Yoakum

District 28 - Edna, Needville, Palacios, Sweeny, Wharton

District 29 - Carrizo Springs, Crystal City, Devine, Hondo, Pearsall

District 30 - Aransas Pass, Ingleside, Mathis, Sinton

District 31 - Falfurrias

District 32 - Hidalgo, La Feria, Lyford, Port Isabel, Progreso, Raymondville, Rio Hondo

District 32 is the only district in Region IV that would remain unchanged based on current enrollment figures. District 31 is all but gone with only Falfurrias remaining from the original six. The left overs from district 30 will combine with Falfurrias to form a 5 team district 31. It will be pretty safe to say that there will be some current Region III teams that will be joining Region IV. Most likely will be some teams that are currently in districts 23 and 24. Sealy from district 23 and La Grange from district 24 have both at one time or another been in Region IV.

<small>[ January 26, 2003, 11:44 PM: Message edited by: TarponFanInNorthTexas ]</small>

[big daddy russ]

If those new figures pass, I really can't see there being 32 districts in 3A. We'd lose 16 teams from Region IV alone. A loss of those kinds of numbers would probably give us like 29 or 30 true districts like Class A has. I'm sure they'll toy with the numbers until the number of schools in 3A is up to par, but it will still make for some strange districts down in the dirty south.

P.S. Thanks for the research, TFINT. Makes it a whole lot easier to just see it there in front of your eyes.

[Matthew328]

I think the numbers will be a bit higher than 800..I think more around 850...but the UIL has shocked us before..heck last year we thought there was no way the UIL would have the cut anywhere above 850 and it went all the way up to 899!! With the UIL you never can tell......all I know is realignment day next year is one of the most interesting days of the year...

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

big daddy russ:
P.S. Thanks for the research, TFINT. Makes it a whole lot easier to just see it there in front of your eyes.No problem! Anything I can do for my South Texas brothers and sisters, i'll do it.

[sinton66]

Matthew328:
I think the numbers will be a bit higher than 800..I think more around 850...but the UIL has shocked us before..heck last year we thought there was no way the UIL would have the cut anywhere above 850 and it went all the way up to 899!! With the UIL you never can tell......all I know is realignment day next year is one of the most interesting days of the year...You're absolutely right on that one, Matthew. Come to think of it, my low end of 450 probably isn't very realistic. The low end now is around 345 or so, that would be a BIG jump all the way to 450. Probably will be closer to 400.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Ok, here is the revised Region IV with the student range of 800-400.

Region IV

District 25
Burnet 858 - 4A

District 26
Jourdanton 364.5 - 2A
Marion 396 - 2A

District 27
Hallettsville 384 - 2A

District 28
no change

District 29
Cotulla 378 - 2A

District 30
Taft 382 - 2A

District 31
Bishop 357 - 2A
Hebbronville 352 - 2A
Zapata 824 - 4A

District 32
No Change

Now, the teams that would be left after we take all of the above out of the equation.

District 25 - Bandera, Liberty Hill, Ingram Moore, Llano, Wimberley

District 26 - La Vernia, Somerset, Poteet, S. San Antonio West, Lytle

District 27 - Cuero, Gonzalez, Luling, Yoakum, Goliad

District 28 - Edna, Needville, Palacios, Sweeny, Wharton, Altair Rice

District 29 - Carrizo Springs, Crystal City, Devine, Hondo, Pearsall

District 30 - Aransas Pass, Ingleside, Mathis, Sinton, CC West Oso

District 31 - Falfurrias, Orange Grove, San Diego

District 32 - Hidalgo, La Feria, Lyford, Port Isabel, Progreso, Raymondville, Rio Hondo

With this revision, districts 25-30 are pretty much set. Each district would have 5 teams in it with exception to district 28 who would have 6 teams. The only real change would be in districts 31 and 32. District 31 would lose half of it's members while district 32 would retain all 7 members. The most likely occurrence would be for the two northernmost teams out of district 32 (Lyford and Raymondville) to be placed in district 31, which would make both districts 31 and 32 5 team districts.

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: TarponFanInNorthTexas ]</small>

[BIG19]

Matthew328:
I think the numbers will be a bit higher than 800..I think more around 850...but the UIL has shocked us before..heck last year we thought there was no way the UIL would have the cut anywhere above 850 and it went all the way up to 899!! With the UIL you never can tell......all I know is realignment day next year is one of the most interesting days of the year...When is realignment day? Would like to mark my calendar......

[Matthew328]

Don't forget that when you change the numbers up some 4A's likely would drop down...

[Matthew328]

Not quite sure...it will be sometime next Febraury

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

After checking the enrollment figures for 4A, if the range was 800-400, the three current 4A schools that would drop down into 3A would be Fabens who has 767 students, Houston Kashmere with 748 and Houston Wheatley with 732. I'm assuming however that they are choosing to play 4A ball even though they have 3A level enrollment.

After Fabens, Kashmere, and Wheatley, all the other smaller 4A schools have at least 900 students which means they won't be in any sort of danger of dropping into class 3A. That is unleass the UIL drops a bomb on us and raises the ceiling for 3A to either 900 or 950.

Here is a list of current 4A schools with enrollments between 900 and 950 that would join us in 3A should the UIL drop the aforementioned bomb.
1. Levelland - 921
2. Mabank - 911
3. Palestine - 924
4. Paris - 904
5. Lampasas - 948
6. Taylor - 902
7. Silsbee - 905
8. Houston Scarborough - 934 (would most likely elect to stay in 4A)
9. West Columbia - 909
10.Castroville Medina Valley - 926

If the range for 3A at the next realignment were 950 - 400 , 3A would lose more teams to 2A than it would gain from 4A. There are several other current 4A schools that have enrollments between 950 and 1000. A range of 1000-400 would help level the number of losses to 2A with gains from the 4A ranks, but that will put us back at the original problem of too much differential between schools. A 7A and 6A would help this lil' problem out a bunch because I don't foresee any real solutions if things stay the way they are now with only 5A as the highest class.

[HotDawg89]

I think it is a pretty fair bet that Burnet will move to 4A regardless of how they play with the numbers. We were almost sure we would go this last year, but low and behold, the UIL gave us a surprise and kept us in 3A, just barely.

We have enrolled so many new students this year that I am sure we are clearly over the 3A hump by now. Our city just passed a bond election to build a new high school to accomodate a 5A HS campus. It should be built by 2005. The old HS will be used for JR High, as the new JR High campus we built 2 years ago has already been outgrown.(I am speaking of the 7th and 8th grade campus- the 6th grade has a campus all it's own that is equally as packed.) The elementary has 2 campus, (K-3, and a 4+5) and the new JR High we built will probably serve to expand the elementary- they are severely overcrowded.

Frankly, I am surprised they have kept us in the classification as long as they have.

I'm thinking that Burnet will probably (hopefully) fall into the district with some of the Austin high schools. It should be more competitive. We have done well agaist our 4A competition this last year.

Should be fun, but it could hurt our chances at another chance at a state title. Some of those big schools don't play around.

[Phil C]

An interesting suggestion Pirate about Sinton, Odem and Taft consolidating even though I don't think it could be done by the powers that be. It is a good thought because it would make us about a medium 4A school with about 1331 enrollment and in football we would have a good chance to be in Division 2 in the 4A playoffs and do very well. And we should still be a power in baseball.

[Old Dog]

HOTDAWG89.....check my comments in the topic "When will Burnet go 4A". There are loads of 4A schools closer to Austin than us. The UIL has made it a point to keep the 7 Austin schools together. An example; Taylor must travel thru Austin or skirt it to get to most of it's district opponents (Marble Falls, Lampasas, the Killeen schools and Pflugerville Connally).

<small>[ January 29, 2003, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Old Dog ]</small>

[callandraise]

OK folks here are the numbers based on the numbers turned in at the last count in 2001.Region one loses 16 of 50 teams to 2A including 4 of the 6 in district 2 and 4 of the 6 in district 6. Region 2 loses 14 of 51 teams to 2A including 4 of the 6 in disrict 9. Region 3 loses 11 of 58 teams to 2A and Region 4 loses 11 of 51.There will also be some lost due to moving up to 4A .To offset this there will probably be15 or 20 current 4A teams move down.This means a net loss of between 40 and 50. One other thing I want to mention,The trouble with the big school small school playoff system is that it dosen't work out that way.EXample Canyon with 874 students and the 2nd largest enrollment in Region 1 and the 5th largest in the state goes into the same small school bracket as Ballinger 354,Comanche 385, Celina 347 and Newton 354.The point is that 354 to 899 is just too big a spread and the big school small school system dosen't adequately address the problem because in a lot of districts the second biggest school is just about as big as the biggest. EXP.Dist.8 Everman 896 and FW Carter-Riverside 892 under the present system one is a big school and one is a small school. Thats all folks.