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panther power
02-06-2005, 06:02 PM
Star student quits in protest

By Ginger Pope
Odessa American

A Permian athlete with a 4.2 grade-point average is withdrawing from school rather than accept punishment under the district's zero-tolerance policy.
Permian High School golfer Jordan Lee, who’s been on the varsity team since her freshman year, said she withdrew from her senior year at school to make a point — the zero-tolerance policy is absurd.
Lee was one of three Permian golf girls sent to the ECISD Alternative Education Center for 18 days.
The girls were given that punishment because they admitted to drinking alcohol while on a golf tournament in October in Abilene.
“I wish the school (district) would investigate a little more into their disciplining,” Jordan said. “Whether students drank alcohol seems to be more important than the whole sexual harassment thing.”
The investigation into Jordan and the other girls began after ECISD completed a Title IX investigation of a Permian teacher for misconduct with the student athletes. This misconduct reportedly occurred during the same weekend as the Abilene golf tournament.
The teacher resigned Jan. 27.
Jordan said the teacher brought alcohol to the girls at their hotel in Abilene.
“I feel like the whole situation would’ve been different if we would have brought it down there with us,” Lee said. “But he brought it — and it was more enticing.”
Junior class principal Roy Garcia investigated the incident this week at Permian and told the girls Wednesday of their punishment.
That’s when Jordan said her father, Melvin Lee, signed her out of school.
“It wasn’t an easy decision. I thought about it a whole day-and-a-half,” she said. “I only got about two hours of sleep the night before.”
She said she understands she and the others should be punished, but 18 days at the alternative center seemed too much to her and her parents, Melvin and Ruth Lee. She said a few days of suspension or in-school suspension seemed more reasonable.
Lee said she was at the alternative center for 12 days last year after she said school police found her father’s pocketknife in her car. She said her father had been in her car working on her speakers and left his knife in the car.
The knife was found during a random car search, she said.
Jordan said the thought of going back to the center was too much and that all the girls regret their decision.
“It was a heat-of-the-moment thing,” she said. “We all regret it, and we’re all willing to learn from it.”
Permian Principal Steve Brown said the punishment is in line with the district’s zero-tolerance policy, which includes alcohol.
“The purpose of that policy is to discourage youngsters to not participate in that activity,” Brown said.
Mike Atkins, ECISD attorney, said the zero-tolerance policy is part of the Texas Education Code. He said it states that a student shall be removed from the classroom if they violate the zero-tolerance policy. The district, however, determines the length of the punishment.
Jordan said she worries that withdrawing from school and getting a GED will hurt her chances of getting into a university, but she hopes to explain herself. Her plans are to go to Odessa College and then transfer to a university.
She also said she plans to keep up her golf game.

bullfrog_alumni_02
02-06-2005, 06:41 PM
i think 18 days in an AEP is a little to leaniant(sp?). she got off easy for the crime she committed. i dont think what the girls or the teacher did was right at any level. i just think they got off way too easy. and she, the girl who whithdrew, has no right to say that zero-tolerance in this instance is too much.

big daddy russ
02-06-2005, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by panther power
“It wasn’t an easy decision. I thought about it a whole day-and-a-half,”...
...LOL

The reason she gave for dropping out of school is completely absurd. Take your punishment like a man (or woman). You knew the rules, you broke them, you earned the grand prize.

She's going to regret squandering away that 4.2 for the rest of her life. It only took her a day and a half to decide that she wanted to waste four years of work.

CHS_CG
02-06-2005, 07:56 PM
Shoot our AEP center here, you can finish a semesters stuff in 6 weeks TOPS 18 days is nothing... i believe we get a semester for drinking or anything like that. it might even be more.

44INAROW
02-06-2005, 09:23 PM
:weeping: :weeping: :weeping: :weeping: :weeping: :wave: :wave: :wave:

Wonder what makes her think SHE is exempt from the policy?

injuredinmelee
02-06-2005, 09:29 PM
That tourney was at my course. Rained out. I guess the coach had quite the rainy day schedule.

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 12:21 AM
This is a perfect example of the saying "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime". The girls knew the rules, regardless of how the alcohol was obtained, and they should have followed them.

“I wish the school (district) would investigate a little more into their disciplining,” Jordan said. “Whether students drank alcohol seems to be more important than the whole sexual harassment thing.”

Obviously the school disctrict investigated - the teacher resigned over the incident. He may never get a teaching position again because of it - that's just as well.

Jordan said she worries that withdrawing from school and getting a GED will hurt her chances of getting into a university, but she hopes to explain herself. Her plans are to go to Odessa College and then transfer to a university.

I can hear her college interview now.... College official, "Why didn't you graduate?" Jordan, "Because I was punished for drinking on a school sponsored trip."

I'm sorry, but the dad does not have good sense. He taught his daughter that rules & consequences mean nothing. My children would've been grateful that 18 days was their punishment at school - they know it'd be much worse than that at home.

TheDOCTORdre
02-07-2005, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
This is a perfect example of the saying "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".
Yes I agree, there is also another lesson to be learned, "if you do the crime dont get caught" :D at least that was always my philosphy, but if i did get caught, I was willing to accept my punishment

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
Yes I agree, there is another lesson to be learned, "if you do the crime dont get caught" :D

Good one! :D

Astrosdawg07
02-07-2005, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by bullfrog_alumni_02
i think 18 days in an AEP is a little to leaniant(sp?). she got off easy for the crime she committed. i dont think what the girls or the teacher did was right at any level. i just think they got off way too easy. and she, the girl who whithdrew, has no right to say that zero-tolerance in this instance is too much.

I don't think the school should decide the penalty. Let the POLICE decide it. If you ask me I think the school is letting her off a lot easier than what the law would. I guess an M.I.P. + 30 day suspension of drivers licence is easy...:rolleyes:

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by Astrosdawg07
I don't think the school should decide the penalty. Let the POLICE decide it. If you ask me I think the school is letting her off a lot easier than what the law would. I guess an M.I.P. + 30 day suspension of drivers licence is easy...:rolleyes:

Since they were on a school sponsored athletic trip, the school has an obligation to punish them. Each district has specific rules that is given to all students regarding their behaviour. Some schools may have an extracurricular code of conduct that is given separately to those who participate.

As far as the police deciding, the law will only become involved if they catch them in the act. They won't come in after the fact and do anything for MIP or PI, unless there was an accident.

CHS_CG
02-07-2005, 07:45 AM
My freshman year we were in Arlington at 6 flags and at the end of the day we had a random bag search b4 we got into the hotel and sure enough 2 of the seniors had alcohol in their bags. Their parents were called, had to drive to Arlington (which put them there around 2 or 3 am) they were sent to AEP for the rest of the school year (which was like only a month or less) and they didnt get to walk on graduation. 18 days at our school would be lettin the kids think they can do it again and only get an 18 day punishment!

Rabbit'93
02-07-2005, 10:11 AM
Although I do not agree with zero-tolerance policies(taking asperin for a headache does not warrent expulsion IMO, true story). I think this girl is way off for quitting school. 18 days is nothing especially when alchohol is involved during a school function.

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 11:33 AM
.

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 11:59 AM
Maybe she, being a "star athlete" and all, thought she was above the rules made for the rest of the student body. She made a horribe, stupid decision to withdraw from school because she didn't want to do the 18 day sentence. She was lucky she wasn't expelled from school period. Yeah , she will totally regret it...I can see her trying to explain it to a university...."..one day at golf camp......" Uh,.... Good luck on that one, honey!!!!! :rolleyes:

Phil C
02-07-2005, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
Maybe she, being a "star athlete" and all, thought she was above the rules made for the rest of the student body. She made a horribe, stupid decision to withdraw from school because she didn't want to do the 18 day sentence. She was lucky she wasn't expelled from school period. Yeah , she will totally regret it...I can see her trying to explain it to a university...."..one day at golf camp......" Uh,.... Good luck on that one, honey!!!!! :rolleyes:

My bet is that there will be plenty of schools that will give her a second chance. They do it for basketball players. It may not be the school she wants to go to but someone out there will do so if she is good enough.

jason
02-07-2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Rabbit'93
during a school function. that right there says it, i know, she shouldnt be drinking any time, but you have to use commons sense...my senior year, at the regional golf tournament, one of the teams got caught with beer and their coach withdrew them from the tournament, they had a VERY good shot at goin to state...

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-07-2005, 01:00 PM
I'm in the minoprity here, but I do not agree with zero tolerance rules. Every situation is different and has mitigating and aggravating circumstances. 18 days in the alternative school seems too harsh considering the fact that a teacher supplied the alcohol. The school district has a responsibility to protect students and it failed them. Who knows the background of this teacher? Has this happend before? I taught at Burkburnett High school and could not even imaging taking alcohol to a student. I bet there is more this teachers has done as well.

The student should be punished, but 18 days is extreme.

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
I'm in the minoprity here, but I do not agree with zero tolerance rules. Every situation is different and has mitigating and aggravating circumstances. 18 days in the alternative school seems too harsh considering the fact that a teacher supplied the alcohol. The school district has a responsibility to protect students and it failed them. Who knows the background of this teacher? Has this happend before? I taught at Burkburnett High school and could not even imaging taking alcohol to a student. I bet there is more this teachers has done as well.

The student should be punished, but 18 days is extreme. Z, I'm with you. Especially when you consider that nine Colleyville Heritage players were discovered using steroids and the school is considering whether or not to take disiplinary action.

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 01:39 PM
What other schools are doing has nothing to do with any other school.....a rule is a rule...you break it, you suffer the penalties.....come on people, these young follks will be out in the real world....will they be prepared???

HighSchool Fan
02-07-2005, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2

The student should be punished, but 18 days is extreme.

you need to give the students enought punishment that it will get their attention. my nephew got 10 days in ISS for punching a kid 1 time. that was the first time he was in trouble at school. he now says that he won't fight again because of the 10 days of punishment that he got.

CHS_CG
02-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
you need to give the students enought punishment that it will get their attention. my nephew got 10 days in ISS for punching a kid 1 time. that was the first time he was in trouble at school. he now says that he won't fight again because of the 10 days of punishment that he got.

I got in a fight my 7th grade year and got sent home and 5 days of ISS.. ofcourse when I called where both my parents answered my mom picked up the phone and I asked to talk to my dad and told him what happened... first thing outta his mouth was Did ya win?" lol

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
I'm in the minoprity here, but I do not agree with zero tolerance rules. Every situation is different and has mitigating and aggravating circumstances. 18 days in the alternative school seems too harsh considering the fact that a teacher supplied the alcohol. The school district has a responsibility to protect students and it failed them. Who knows the background of this teacher? Has this happend before? I taught at Burkburnett High school and could not even imaging taking alcohol to a student. I bet there is more this teachers has done as well.

The student should be punished, but 18 days is extreme.

Whether or not we agree with zero tolerance, Permian obviously such a policy regarding alcohol use in place. I haven't made up my mind as to whether or not the punishment was extreme, but if it is spelled out in the student handbook that this was the policy, then it was just.

As far as the teacher goes, don't get me started on that. I'm too much of a lady to say in public what I think should have happened to him.

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 02:08 PM
I'm with you.....he should be behind bars..... :mad:

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
I'm with you.....he should be behind bars..... :mad:

You're much nicer than I am. :) (Yes, I said that. :eek: )

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
What other schools are doing has nothing to do with any other school.....a rule is a rule...you break it, you suffer the penalties.....come on people, these young follks will be out in the real world....will they be prepared??? You have a lot to say about the Permian kid getting the proper punishment over an alcohol incident but nine players using steroids and probably getting off without disiplinary action doesn't get a peep out of you. Hmmm. BTW steroid use is a violation of UIL Policy.

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by BullFrog Dad
You have a lot to say about the Permian kid getting the proper punishment over an alcohol incident but nine players using steroids and probably getting off without disiplinary action doesn't get a peep out of you. Hmmm. BTW steroid use is a violation of UIL Policy.

Someone should point out to the UIL that their policy needs to be updated on their website.

http://www.uil.utexas.edu/ath/manuals/drug/manual.html

HighSchool Fan
02-07-2005, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by BullFrog Dad
but nine players using steroids and probably getting off without disiplinary action doesn't get a peep out of you.

Probably is the key word here. lets wait and see what really does happen and quit jumping to conclusions.

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by BullFrog Dad
You have a lot to say about the Permian kid getting the proper punishment over an alcohol incident but nine players using steroids and probably getting off without disiplinary action doesn't get a peep out of you. Hmmm. BTW steroid use is a violation of UIL Policy. Look before you leap, Bullfrog!! :eek:

..and alcohol consumption at a school event, isn't????:rolleyes:

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
Look before you leap, Bullfrog!! :eek:

..and alcohol consumption at a school event, isn't????:rolleyes: L B Y L cute! You missed my point. Everybody broke da' rules! I never said anything to the contrary. It's just that this thread had a lynch mob forming and the steroid thread flew under the radar. As far as my statement of the players probably getting off without disciplinary action, my money is on it happening. Any takers?

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by BullFrog Dad
L B Y L cute! You missed my point. Everybody broke da' rules! I never said anything to the contrary. It's just that this thread had a lynch mob forming and the steroid thread flew under the radar. As far as my statement of the players probably getting off without disciplinary action, my money is on it happening. Any takers? Oh no...I got your point.

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
Oh no...I got your point. Everybody does sooner or later.

HighSchool Fan
02-07-2005, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by BullFrog Dad
. As far as my statement of the players probably getting off without disciplinary action, my money is on it happening. Any takers?

the kids took the steroids at their own homes. since the kids didn't take steroids on a school function or on school property, there isn't alot the school can do about it.

i don't think anyone here wants to take a sucker bet.

Black_Magic
02-07-2005, 03:08 PM
At Snyder High School the Manditory Punishment for the same offense is 30 day in the Alternative Education Program. This girl got off easy with being assigned just 18 days.

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
the kids took the steroids at their own homes. since the kids didn't take steroids on a school function or on school property, there isn't alot the school can do about it.

i don't think anyone here wants to take a sucker bet. If one of those players took an injection before going to school for say a workout that would have to be considered a violation. Did it happen? That's what interrogation's for. Time will tell. BTW I took the Eagles and seven.

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-07-2005, 03:31 PM
Compare to real world:

Criminal Laws in Texas set a range of punishments. 1st degree felony is the most serious crime. Punishment is 5-99 years to life in prison plus up to $10,000 fine.

Now with that being said, there is a big difference in life and 5 years. It really depends on what the crime was and the circumstances.

I do not like zero tolerance policies. Do the parents have the right to appeal? We don’t really know all the details. With a teacher providing alcohol and I would assume trying to get some from the female students I would say would be some mitigating circumstances that should lesson the penalty.

It just seems like zero tolerance always gets the ones that it shouldn't get. The girl should be punished, but it should be commensurate with the rule violation.

Hey just my 2 cents.

CHS_CG
02-07-2005, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by HighSchool Fan
the kids took the steroids at their own homes. since the kids didn't take steroids on a school function or on school property, there isn't alot the school can do about it.

i don't think anyone here wants to take a sucker bet.


did you forget some of the people we have on here ?

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by CHS_CG
did you forget some of the people we have on here ? Priceless!

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by BullFrog Dad
Everybody does sooner or later. Uh....Ok....great

BullFrog Dad
02-07-2005, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
Uh....Ok....great Thank Ya' Ma'am.

Bandera YaYa
02-07-2005, 04:16 PM
Yes siree, thank the Lord for making men.....I mean, what oh what would we do without them!! :rolleyes: :D

Black_Magic
02-07-2005, 06:34 PM
COME ON NOW!!! some of you have to be kidding.... This Girl Knows the policy and did it anyway. she was not removed from the team. She was given 18 days in AEP. Thats too harsh???? Give me a Break. Take your punishment and go on. you know its wrong. you did it. take the punishment and keep playing golf.9 Be thankful that they will let you stay in the sport.

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
COME ON NOW!!! some of you have to be kidding.... This Girl Knows the policy and did it anyway. she was not removed from the team. She was given 18 days in AEP. Thats too harsh???? Give me a Break. Take your punishment and go on. you know its wrong. you did it. take the punishment and keep playing golf.9 Be thankful that they will let you stay in the sport.

Well, they won't since she decided to drop out of school. ;)

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-07-2005, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
COME ON NOW!!! some of you have to be kidding.... This Girl Knows the policy and did it anyway. she was not removed from the team. She was given 18 days in AEP. Thats too harsh???? Give me a Break. Take your punishment and go on. you know its wrong. you did it. take the punishment and keep playing golf.9 Be thankful that they will let you stay in the sport.

When in Alternative school you can not compete. Remember this is a teenager, that I bet is about 16 or 17 and a teacher / coach brings her beer in a hotel away from her parents. Come on now you have to be kidding.

CHS_CG
02-07-2005, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
When in Alternative school you can not compete. Remember this is a teenager, that I bet is about 16 or 17 and a teacher / coach brings her beer in a hotel away from her parents. Come on now you have to be kidding.


First I dont care how old she was.. she knew the rules.. she put herself in a very very dangerous situation.. while drinkin they coulda been hurt... the teacher could have harmed them in some way. IT WAS DOWN RIGHT STUPID. Now as for as "lookin at the situation" yeah the teacher gave it to them but they should have been smart enough to 1) tell him NO and 2) report it. You cant go on a school trip and except to get away with something like that. Again it was just plain STUPID on the teacher and students part!

TheDOCTORdre
02-07-2005, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
When in Alternative school you can not compete. Remember this is a teenager, that I bet is about 16 or 17 and a teacher / coach brings her beer in a hotel away from her parents. Come on now you have to be kidding.
To be quite hoonest if a teacher/coach ever approached me with beer while I was in high school a red light is going off in my head saying set up get away from the situation, but thats just me and I have always been overly suspicious

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
To be quite hoonest if a teacher/coach ever approached me with beer while I was in high school a red light is going off in my head saying set up get away from the situation, but thats just me and I have always been overly suspicious

And obviously quite smart. :)

Black_Magic
02-07-2005, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
When in Alternative school you can not compete. Remember this is a teenager, that I bet is about 16 or 17 and a teacher / coach brings her beer in a hotel away from her parents. Come on now you have to be kidding. She can compete when she gets out. She never said she THOUGHT it was ok to drink. It does not make one bit of difference who brought it to her . She knows its against the rules. You think because some adult brought it to here she said to her self" hmm it must be ok to drink". PLEASE. She does not even dispute that it is wrong. she just disagrees with the punishment. Let me tell you that 18 days is short. In Snyder its automatic 30 days AEP. She is some spoiled little girl who's parents didnt raise to take resposibility for her actions.

LH Panther Mom
02-07-2005, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
She is some spoiled little girl who's parents didnt raise to take resposibility for her actions.

:clap: :clap:

bullfrog_alumni_02
02-07-2005, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
She can compete when she gets out. She never said she THOUGHT it was ok to drink. It does not make one bit of difference who brought it to her . She knows its against the rules. You think because some adult brought it to here she said to her self" hmm it must be ok to drink". PLEASE. She does not even dispute that it is wrong. she just disagrees with the punishment. Let me tell you that 18 days is short. In Snyder its automatic 30 days AEP. She is some spoiled little girl who's parents didnt raise to take resposibility for her actions. when i was freshman, a friend of mine was put in aep for the remander of the semester for doing something like what she did, minus the teacher being involved. he was in there for almost 2/3 of a full semester, or about 12 weeks.

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-07-2005, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
She can compete when she gets out. She never said she THOUGHT it was ok to drink. It does not make one bit of difference who brought it to her . She knows its against the rules. You think because some adult brought it to here she said to her self" hmm it must be ok to drink". PLEASE. She does not even dispute that it is wrong. she just disagrees with the punishment. Let me tell you that 18 days is short. In Snyder its automatic 30 days AEP. She is some spoiled little girl who's parents didnt raise to take resposibility for her actions.

But it DOES matter who brought it to her. The teacher / Coach who is responsible for her. You see when you go on a school event the ISD has a responsiblity to make sure that you are safe from harm and by a school employee providing one alcohol that is not anly a crime (Making alcohol avaliable to a minor) but it is also a breach in the school's duty to protect. Depending on the school official's background I would even suspect that a civil suit could be brought against the school district for numerous reasons.

Here are a few since your probably asking:

Faliure to train employees
Failure to supersive
Negligent retention

The girl was wrong also in drinking. No doubt, but to give her 18 daus of alternative school? Too much in my opinion (under the circumstances).

CHS_CG
02-07-2005, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
But it DOES matter who brought it to her. The teacher / Coach who is responsible for her. You see when you go on a school event the ISD has a responsiblity to make sure that you are safe from harm and by a school employee providing one alcohol that is not anly a crime (Making alcohol avaliable to a minor) but it is also a breach in the school's duty to protect. Depending on the school official's background I would even suspect that a civil suit could be brought against the school district for numerous reasons.

Here are a few since your probably asking:

Faliure to train employees
Failure to supersive
Negligent retention

The girl was wrong also in drinking. No doubt, but to give her 18 daus of alternative school? Too much in my opinion (under the circumstances).

Wether a teacher or the good Lord gave it to her.. she shoulda known better! 18days is GETTING OFF EASY! I agree.. the teacher was in the wrong but 18 days is nothing compared to what could have happened to her!

44INAROW
02-07-2005, 08:00 PM
nevermind.. not worth the time

CHS_CG
02-07-2005, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by 44INAROW
so if the teacher gave her a gun and told her to blow her brains out, she should do it?

:clap: :clap:

TheDOCTORdre
02-07-2005, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by panther power
Star student quits in protest

By Ginger Pope
Odessa American

A Permian athlete with a 4.2 grade-point average is withdrawing from school rather than accept punishment under the district's zero-tolerance policy.

4.2 GPA and she doesnt know better:rolleyes:

Black_Magic
02-08-2005, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
But it DOES matter who brought it to her. The teacher / Coach who is responsible for her. You see when you go on a school event the ISD has a responsiblity to make sure that you are safe from harm and by a school employee providing one alcohol that is not anly a crime (Making alcohol avaliable to a minor) but it is also a breach in the school's duty to protect. Depending on the school official's background I would even suspect that a civil suit could be brought against the school district for numerous reasons.

Here are a few since your probably asking:

Faliure to train employees
Failure to supersive
Negligent retention

The girl was wrong also in drinking. No doubt, but to give her 18 daus of alternative school? Too much in my opinion (under the circumstances). THis sounds like the rational for letting off a criminal who was caught red handed and confesed to the crime and is let off on a technicality like reading rights or some other thing. There is No question of Guilt here at all. As I understand it the school employee was let go and rightly so. that is a seperate matter. The girl did know that she was violating the rules but did it anyway. People need to stop crying about cirumstances and take respossibility for the action. 18 Days is a Joke for the Violation. She is lucky the was not terminated from the activity for the rest of the year.

big daddy russ
02-08-2005, 10:08 AM
This is the way I see the whole thing. I knew drinking was wrong (when you're not with family) since I was young. Real young. The same way that I know lying is wrong and murder is wrong. It's not only what your parents teach you, but what your culture teaches you.

Whether or not the teacher gave her the alcohol, it was her RESPONSIBILITY to make the right decision. 18 days sounds like a light sentence for a zero-tolerance policy, so maybe they took a look at the situation and lessened the punisment. She made a mistake. Just do your time (it's only three weeks for heaven's sake) and get over it.

Ranger Mom
02-08-2005, 11:50 AM
I have to wonder where they came up with 18 days...why not 17 or 19??:thinking:

She was on the news here last night....I was talking on the phone, so I didn't listen to the interview.

I don't agree with the zero-tolerance policy myself. In this case, I think the punishment fits the crime. But...there are cases (like the pocketknife incident) or a few years back when the kid got caught with a "butter knife" in his truck (It had fallen out of box of stuff his grandmother asked him to take to a garage sale).

My daughter defies the "rules" everyday by carrying a bottle of Advil in her purse. I think it's crazy that the school body can govern over-the-counter legal drugs.

Another instance, a friend of my son has asthma, he had an inhaler in his pocket and when he sat down in class it fell out of his pants pocket and rolled under the desk. The next class, another kid saw it, picked it up and put it in his pocket. He knew whose it was, he was going to return it to him when he saw him after that class. The teacher saw him, reported him, and both kids were sent to AEP for "sharing" the inhalent. No one saw either kid using it, they just jumped to the conclusion that that's what was gonna happen.

CRAZY!!!

Bandera YaYa
02-08-2005, 11:54 AM
Does it not disturb anyone, that a MALE coach gave his female students alcohol??? Good thing I'm not her mother!! He was fired and I hope his teaching credentials have been permanently retired!! :mad:

Black_Magic
02-08-2005, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Ranger Mom
I have to wonder where they came up with 18 days...why not 17 or 19??:thinking:

She was on the news here last night....I was talking on the phone, so I didn't listen to the interview.

I don't agree with the zero-tolerance policy myself. In this case, I think the punishment fits the crime. But...there are cases (like the pocketknife incident) or a few years back when the kid got caught with a "butter knife" in his truck (It had fallen out of box of stuff his grandmother asked him to take to a garage sale).

My daughter defies the "rules" everyday by carrying a bottle of Advil in her purse. I think it's crazy that the school body can govern over-the-counter legal drugs.

Another instance, a friend of my son has asthma, he had an inhaler in his pocket and when he sat down in class it fell out of his pants pocket and rolled under the desk. The next class, another kid saw it, picked it up and put it in his pocket. He knew whose it was, he was going to return it to him when he saw him after that class. The teacher saw him, reported him, and both kids were sent to AEP for "sharing" the inhalent. No one saw either kid using it, they just jumped to the conclusion that that's what was gonna happen.

CRAZY!!! I agree that every law or rule that enforced has examples of things that seem crazy. BUT we need the rules and laws to protect the rest of us from the real dangers. THIS instance is clear. She drank, she knows it was wrong, BUT she does not want to do the time. TOO BAD. We have enough drug and alcholol abuse in the schools as it is and we need a strict rule to discourage kids from doing them. 18 days is a very easy and lite punishment for this type of thing:rolleyes:

BCsportfan
02-08-2005, 01:35 PM
I agree the supervising teacher/coach brings alcohol .... lawsuit would def. be in the works.

I do think the players that drank should take the punishment, right or wrong, it's sad to take a chance on throwing away 4 years of hard work so you don't have to take a punishment.

I think the parents should have lawyers that will go after the teacher and school personal and persons that make the decisions for this person that was suppose to be watching out for these atheletes well being and protecting them on this trip. Someone besides this teacher made an error in judgment on trusting this teacher.

I also thought for safety reasons 2 teachers or one teacher and another adult chaperoen (sp?) had to be on all overnight field trips ?

Black_Magic
02-08-2005, 02:34 PM
You Know... Il bet this little gal still has her cell phone, still driving her car and was not grounded or punished at home. may be wrong but I would bet money mom and dad has not put the foot down.
If I had done something like this I would be coming home at 3:30 every day after riding the bus or walking home ( no car ) and enjoying tv untill dinner after all the homework is done. there would be no phone and my dad would have work to keep me occupied untill bed time. BUT then again my dad enforced punishment for things I did at school or at home.

kaorder1999
02-08-2005, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
You Know... Il bet this little gal still has her cell phone, still driving her car and was not grounded or punished at home. may be wrong but I would bet money mom and dad has not put the foot down.
If I had done something like this I would be coming home at 3:30 every day after riding the bus or walking home ( no car ) and enjoying tv untill dinner after all the homework is done. there would be no phone and my dad would have work to keep me occupied untill bed time. BUT then again my dad enforced punishment for things I did at school or at home.

sounds like you have good parents

superslyguy06
02-08-2005, 03:14 PM
the zero-tolerance policy, IMO, is somewhat easy. for the first offense, its only 15 days from the first missed game, not practice, then a year for the 2nd and the 3rd is no more sports. speakin as a person that served his 15-days last year, it seems somewhat lax. perhaps 1 or 2 months. but i was caught by the cops, not on a school trip. but 18 days is a joke. our AEP get out at like noon. that 15 days, (it seems to me), is designed around football players. IMO, that is why most teams have a few scrimmages, that way, in case a star player got caught over the summer, they miss only 1, if any, games that season. JMO though.

Phil C
02-08-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
You Know... Il bet this little gal still has her cell phone, still driving her car and was not grounded or punished at home. may be wrong but I would bet money mom and dad has not put the foot down.
If I had done something like this I would be coming home at 3:30 every day after riding the bus or walking home ( no car ) and enjoying tv untill dinner after all the homework is done. there would be no phone and my dad would have work to keep me occupied untill bed time. BUT then again my dad enforced punishment for things I did at school or at home.

I wasn't a teenager then Black but one time in elementary school a teacher fussed at some of us for moving around in line after recess before we were to march to the classroom. When she was out of earshot I smarted off which was a mistake because the principal Mr. Thomas came around at the same time and I was busted. Mr. Thomas took me to his office for some counseling (that means a stern talking too along with some corporal punishment with the paddle). When I got home my parents gave me some more corporal punishmen and then took me to the teacher's house and made me apologize to the teacher and later the principal too.

Bandera YaYa
02-08-2005, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by Phil C
I wasn't a teenager then Black but one time in elementary school a teacher fussed at some of us for moving around in line after recess before we were to march to the classroom. When she was out of earshot I smarted off which was a mistake because the principal Mr. Thomas came around at the same time and I was busted. Mr. Thomas took me to his office for some counseling (that means a stern talking too along with some corporal punishment with the paddle). When I got home my parents gave me some more corporal punishmen and then took me to the teacher's house and made me apologize to the teacher and later the principal too.

And that is why you are such an outstanding, responsible adult now!!!:)

Phil C
02-08-2005, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
And that is why you are such an outstanding, responsible adult now!!!:)

Thank you Bandera. Most of us though even in our childhood had a sense of honesty. I remember one time I found a toy in the alley. (Funny I am not sure what it was though!) I claimed the toy as being found. If it had been in someone's yard we knew it belonged to someone else and wouldn't get it but if it was in the alley we felt like it was belonged to the founder. My father found out about it and even though I didn't get a whippin in that instant he told me that it still belonged to someone else and I had to return it to the alley where I found it. Oh the pressures of being young! :D

Bandera YaYa
02-08-2005, 06:00 PM
LOL !! :D

GreenMonster
02-08-2005, 11:17 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BCsportfan
[B]

Someone besides this teacher made an error in judgment on trusting this teacher.

I think this statement I have quoted sums up ZMotion's point. How can the district punish these CHILDREN for the district's own lack of judgement in allowing them to be alone in a hotel with this scum bucket that these girls have been trained to respect and trust. By punishing these girls the district is violating the trust of these girls again. The girls came forward, trusting the district to do what was right this time since the district let them down by putting them in contact with this predator, only to have the district say "oh, we're so sorry this happened, your coach has resigned and by the way, we're going to give you 18 days in School sanctioned prison for coming forward and incriminating yourself on the alcohol charges." That is just plain wrong. Zero tolerance policy or not, there are extenuating circumstances that should have trumped the zero tolerance policy here. If the girls are getting 18 days in AEP, what is the Athletic Director getting for punishment, the Principal, or the Superintendant? These are the superiors of the golf coach, why aren't any of them losing their jobs or being suspended without pay for 18 days for lack of supervision. This district needs to open their eyes instead of their rules handbook and make a decision that is in the best interest of everyone involved. Instead of punishing these girls the district should be bringing in counsellors to help these girls through a very delicate situation. They were sexually harrassed by a school employee on a school sponsored trip. These girls deserved better out of the school and the school let them down and then turned around and let them down again. I'd jerk my kids out of there too, and I would have my lawyer hunting down referrals for the dirtiest lawyer he can find. After all, if you can't trust the public schools system who can you trust?

fball_gal310
02-09-2005, 12:10 AM
There is no doubt that the girls should be punished but 18 days is a bit much. They understand what they did was wrong, that is why they came forward and told...what is the point in punishing them for 18 days. In our school district, athletes sit out for 3 weeks and do extra workouts and they have to earn their spot back on the team before they can compete again. All i'm sayin is that the district should re-evaluate their teachers and be more responsible as a whole...

slpybear the bullfan
02-09-2005, 12:42 AM
Misc. scattershooting from the sleepy bear....


1.) Again folks, we do not know the facts here. We ONLY know what the girl and her dad were quoted as saying. My guess is that the true story is a bit interesting.

2.) I wonder if the girl signed a contract? You know, the kind that school's ask their kids in extracurricular activities to sign? They usually have the students committing themselves to not take drugs or alchol and agree to punishments if they do. I would be interested to see if this was done and now the girl is trying to buck the punishment.

3.) The male teacher is a obvioulsy a dog. BUT, I highly doubt that there was a girls golf team travelling overnight and there wasn't a woman sponser around. I wonder where she was?

4.) The dad's quotes probably speak volumes about his parenting.

5.) I am a big fan of zero tolerance. And I am a HUGE OPPONENT of zero Thinking. IMHO... if you are going to institute a zero tolerance policy, then spend some time using that grey matter in your head and write down EXACTLY what is going to be considered "contraband." Don't be assinine and make statements like, "I know its a butter knife and she had just returned from the 4H Bake sale, but it is technically a knife and we have this Zero tolerance policy...". How Idiotic. If you do not DEFINE contraband THOROUGHLY then you are being a LAZY administrator. I have a lot of family employed by the school system. And I know a lot of good folks who work there. But there also are some that are L-A-Z-Y.

Black_Magic
02-09-2005, 09:40 AM
.

Black_Magic
02-09-2005, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by GreenMonster
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BCsportfan
[B]

Zero tolerance policy or not, there are extenuating circumstances that should have trumped the zero tolerance policy here. If the girls are getting 18 days in AEP, what is the Athletic Director getting for punishment, the Principal, or the Superintendant? These are the superiors of the golf coach, why aren't any of them losing their jobs or being suspended without pay for 18 days for lack of supervision. This district needs to open their eyes instead of their rules handbook and make a decision that is in the best interest of everyone involved. Instead of punishing these girls the district should be bringing in counsellors to help these girls through a very delicate situation. They were sexually harrassed by a school employee on a school sponsored trip. These girls deserved better out of the school and the school let them down and then turned around and let them down again. I'd jerk my kids out of there too, and I would have my lawyer hunting down referrals for the dirtiest lawyer he can find. After all, if you can't trust the public schools system who can you trust?

You got to be kidding:clap: Funny. I dont believe sexual harassment was mentioned untill the kid was confronted with the drinking. Look Its simple she Drank! she Did know it was WRONG. She Did it anyway. REMEMBER the thing they dont like is the punishment. 18 days AEP is lite.. Yes FIRE the person who brought beer to them, but punish the girls too. they know right from wrong. give me a break! I think they should be band from participating for the rest of the year.

BrahmaMom
02-09-2005, 04:22 PM
YaYa, answering your earlier question, I immediately noticed the coach providing the alcohol was a male. As the mother of four boys, that alarmed even me! I wonder if the district has been going over their employees since this happened. I hope all districts are, people change, sometimes not for the better. I wish the girl and her parents would have used this as a learning experience, and I hope they are grateful all the things that went through my head when I read it that could have happened, didn't happen. Our district puts emphasis on respecting authority figures, esp. coaches; I could see it would be difficult to say no. But if the district has zero tolerance, I'd think the student would feel backed enough to do so. I am not one who pursues legal consequences, but as the parents, I would be working hard to make sure this guy never has the opportunity to create such a situation again in other ways.

CHS_CG
02-09-2005, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by BrahmaMom
YaYa, answering your earlier question, I immediately noticed the coach providing the alcohol was a male. As the mother of four boys, that alarmed even me! I wonder if the district has been going over their employees since this happened. I hope all districts are, people change, sometimes not for the better. I wish the girl and her parents would have used this as a learning experience, and I hope they are grateful all the things that went through my head when I read it that could have happened, didn't happen. Our district puts emphasis on respecting authority figures, esp. coaches; I could see it would be difficult to say no. But if the district has zero tolerance, I'd think the student would feel backed enough to do so. I am not one who pursues legal consequences, but as the parents, I would be working hard to make sure this guy never has the opportunity to create such a situation again in other ways.

I still couldnt see takin my child outta school with a 4.2 GPA for 18 days in AEP.. just makes no sense to me. It seems like a HUGE waste of education.. no college is gunna be that understand when they ask why didnt you finish high school and she says.. "i dropped out bc they school wanted to give me 18 days of AEP for drinkin on a school golf trip. I didnt feel that I should have been punished for it bc the teacher gave it to us. "

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-09-2005, 05:27 PM
I'm sure that they put her into another school. Probably a private one since the public school probably will not let her change from one high school to another (Permian to Odessa High). Maybe they put her into a Midland school? We really don't know all the facts and yet we have taken up 5 pages worth of posts. Pretty good gossup.

BrahmaMom
02-09-2005, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by CHS_CG
I still couldnt see takin my child outta school with a 4.2 GPA for 18 days in AEP.. just makes no sense to me. It seems like a HUGE waste of education.. no college is gunna be that understand when they ask why didnt you finish high school and she says.. "i dropped out bc they school wanted to give me 18 days of AEP for drinkin on a school golf trip. I didnt feel that I should have been punished for it bc the teacher gave it to us. "

Nor can I. They probably did put her in a private school, b/c colleges wouldn't accept that explanation. I would've had my kid do the alternative school and whatever consequences fit at home (I can't completely take away transportation or cell phones, but I can sure limit their use to MY convenience).

rockdale80
02-09-2005, 06:03 PM
this a perfect example of what I think is wrong with alot of people these days. Noone wants to accept responsibility for their own actions.

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by rockdale80
this a perfect example of what I think is wrong with alot of people these days. Noone wants to accept responsibility for their own actions.

What I think many people are missing here is not that people don't want to take responsibilities but that sometimes there are circumstances that warrant a less severe punishment than is prescribed in a zero tolerance policy. Many on this board don't think the punishment is that severe; however, with two teenage daughters both of which are athetes, I would not want them to be in an alternative school for three weeks. I would rather them run up and down hills, and around the track and all over town at the coaches descretion. Then throw in some in-school suspension like 3 to 5 days. Maybe even go back old school style and have them attand a Saturday detention (not sure they do that any longer). That would better reflect the punishment in my opinion. Not 3 weeks in an alternative school.

Now had a coach not provided the girls with the alcohol then it is another story. In other words, the circumstances in this particular case warrant a lighter punishment. I don't recall anyone on here stating that the girl should go un punished.

rockdale80
02-09-2005, 07:10 PM
i think many are missing the point of this entirely. noone made her drink. alot of bad decisions were made starting from the top at administration, to the coach, to the girl actually drinking. that doesnt take away from the fact that she made a decision to drink and now should face the consequences. sure 18 days may seem like a harsh punishment, but i would be willing to bet it would have served its purpose and would not have happened again. noone would want their child to make the same decision, and i am sure had your daughters been in a similiar situation they would have not drank the alcohol even though it was provided. all i am saying is nothing masks the fact that there are rules, and if you break them there will be consequences.

big daddy russ
02-09-2005, 07:29 PM
Does anyone know what the rules are on transfers planning on graduating with honors? I know if you want to be Valedictorian or Salutitorian you have to be in that school for something like two years. Do the same kind of rules apply for a kid who just wants to wear the white sash?

LH Panther Mom
02-09-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by big daddy russ
Does anyone know what the rules are on transfers planning on graduating with honors? I know if you want to be Valedictorian or Salutitorian you have to be in that school for something like two years. Do the same kind of rules apply for a kid who just wants to wear the white sash?

The only rules I could find concern participation in either Athletic or Academic competitions. Most likely, that decision would be made by the new school AFTER transcript has been sent. Of course, if said student had intentions of participating in athletics, residency rules would apply.

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by big daddy russ
Does anyone know what the rules are on transfers planning on graduating with honors? I know if you want to be Valedictorian or Salutitorian you have to be in that school for something like two years. Do the same kind of rules apply for a kid who just wants to wear the white sash?

You make a good point Russ. I would suspect that there is a residency requirement. Both the valedictorian as well as salutatorian will get automatic academic scholarships that are worth thousands of dollars across every college in Texas. I hope that the parents of the said child took that into consideration.

Ranger Mom
02-09-2005, 10:06 PM
Z Motion....just to let you know, some schools still do the Saturday Detention....ours does!

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-09-2005, 10:39 PM
I didn't know they still operated the Ol' Breakfast Club. many of the younger posters will not know what I'm talking about.

big daddy russ
02-09-2005, 10:40 PM
The Breakfast Club, haha. I was there once or twice.

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-09-2005, 10:41 PM
I'm almost ashamed to say it, but so was I.

For fighting no less. All for the honor of my girlfriend.

:)

Black_Magic
02-10-2005, 02:48 PM
Anyone think she will see the stupidity of what she is doing and go back??

BullFrog Dad
02-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
Anyone think she will see the stupidity of what she is doing and go back?? Maybe if she reads this thread.

GreenMonster
02-10-2005, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by rockdale80
i think many are missing the point of this entirely. noone made her drink. alot of bad decisions were made starting from the top at administration, to the coach, to the girl actually drinking. that doesnt take away from the fact that she made a decision to drink and now should face the consequences. sure 18 days may seem like a harsh punishment, but i would be willing to bet it would have served its purpose and would not have happened again. noone would want their child to make the same decision, and i am sure had your daughters been in a similiar situation they would have not drank the alcohol even though it was provided. all i am saying is nothing masks the fact that there are rules, and if you break them there will be consequences.

You state clearly there in the top of your post that, " alot of bad decisions were made starting at the top...." etc. but you only choose to punish the girl for her bad decision. Evidently the coach punished himself by resigning and there is potential police punishment headed his way but what about the administration whose bad decision to hire this predator started the ball rolling on all of these bad decisions. If the girl gets 18 days then the Principal and Superintendant deserve 18 days of suspension without pay. It is only fair. They are punishing the girl for a bad decision so I feel the administrators resposible for that coach's employment should receive equal punishment for their bad decision. A plain suspension is actually a paid vacation so take their pay away for those 18 days as well. The punishment should fit the crime and 18 days is harsh given the circumstances.

rockdale80
02-10-2005, 09:08 PM
i guess we will agree to disagree. and if i had been caught drinking my dad would have punished me for more than 18 days. because he knows all i had to do to avoid the situation WAS SAY NO THANKS I DONT DRINK. sure it is an awful thing for a trusted coach to do, but lets be honest here...all she had to do was not drink.

big daddy russ
02-10-2005, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by GreenMonster
...If the girl gets 18 days then the Principal and Superintendant deserve 18 days of suspension without pay. It is only fair... A plain suspension is actually a paid vacation so take their pay away for those 18 days as well. The punishment should fit the crime and 18 days is harsh given the circumstances. What should the principal of Columbine have done?

TheDOCTORdre
02-11-2005, 12:07 AM
If someone provides me with a gun, even if it is a teacher, a friend, a parent, or even the police, I am not going to shoot someone. You know why? Because I have a little thing known as common sense. I know people are going to say shooting someone and drink a beer that is provided to them is two different things, but the point I am trying to make is common sense would point someone away from both of these situations.

rockdale80
02-11-2005, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
If someone provides me with a gun, even if it is a teacher, a friend, a parent, or even the police, I am not going to shoot someone. You know why? Because I have a little thing known as common sense. I know people are going to say shooting someone and drink a beer that is provided to them is two different things, but the point I am trying to make is common sense would point someone away from both of these situations.

my point all along:clap: :clap:

big daddy russ
02-11-2005, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
If someone provides me with a gun, even if it is a teacher, a friend, a parent, or even the police, I am not going to shoot someone. You know why? Because I have a little thing known as common sense. I know people are going to say shooting someone and drink a beer that is provided to them is two different things, but the point I am trying to make is common sense would point someone away from both of these situations. It seems to me like everybody's directing the blame away from the student (and the teacher) when that's where it squarely falls. "The Devil made me do it" will never come out of my son's mouth. If he messes up then it's on him. He should be man enough to face the consequences on his own, and he'll face the wrath of the school along with the wrath of pappa.

rockdale80
02-11-2005, 01:09 AM
i think the reason i walked the straight and narrow was because i was afraid of what would happen at home if i didnt.

TheDOCTORdre
02-11-2005, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by rockdale80
i think the reason i walked the straight and narrow was because i was afraid of what would happen at home if i didnt.
I knew what you mean

big daddy russ
02-11-2005, 01:11 AM
Oh yeah. I got it at school and when I came home... and if I tried to blame someone else for my mistakes I'd get tore into even worse. My father never liked excuses, but that's one of the things that made him a great father.

rockdale80
02-11-2005, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by big daddy russ
Oh yeah. I got it at school and when I came home... and if I tried to blame someone else for my mistakes I'd get tore into even worse. My father never liked excuses, but that's one of the things that made him a great father.


tore into is an understatement. thank god for good dads. dont know where i would be without mine.

LH Panther Mom
02-11-2005, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by big daddy russ
It seems to me like everybody's directing the blame away from the student (and the teacher) when that's where it squarely falls. "The Devil made me do it" will never come out of my son's mouth. If he messes up then it's on him. He should be man enough to face the consequences on his own, and he'll face the wrath of the school along with the wrath of pappa.

:clap: :clap: Very well put! I was an angel at school - only got in trouble once, freshman year, & that was over something stupid.....asked the Algebra teacher a question she couldn't answer (my problem was I didn't understand how to do the stinking problem & was trying to give a bs mathematical answer for the proof). It ticked her off & she made me leave class. Low & behold, the next period (after lunch), I was pulled out of class & taken to the principal's office. My dad was in there & made me apologize to her. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty when I got home. (At least my mother had some sympathy for me because she couldn't stand the woman.) My kids know if they screw up, the punishment is twice as bad at home.

Black_Magic
02-11-2005, 08:12 AM
this little gal just thought that If she DID get caught, she would get a free pass because of how she got the booze..... Wrong! LOL

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-13-2005, 03:23 PM
How do any of you know that she wasn't punished at home? You don't so don't assume that she wasn't. I suspect that she was. I would punish mine should they have drank beer. Like rockdale80 stated, we just dissagree on the school punishment.

That being said though, there is a monumental difference between killing someone and drinking, come on now Dr. Dre.

Nevertheless, the girl was pulled from school because her parents felt that the punishment was too severe under the circumstances. I hope that she learned her lesson about drinking, and at least the teacher didn't rape her or any of the other girls.

Z motion 10 out on 2
02-13-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Black_Magic
this little gal just thought that If she DID get caught, she would get a free pass because of how she got the booze..... Wrong! LOL


You don't know that. She could have been pressured to drink by the teacher.

Black_Magic
02-13-2005, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
Nevertheless, the girl was pulled from school because her parents felt that the punishment was too severe under the circumstances. I hope that she learned her lesson about drinking, and at least the teacher didn't rape her or any of the other girls. Thats the other thing that is stupid... Walk away from 3 1/2 years fo work??? come on! what is the big difference ? did she not think punishment was inline? I take that back.. of course she did. She knows and stated that she knows what she did is wrong... So 18 days In AEP is what I would call a minimum sentance if your going to go there at all. Come on parents... Now your saying automatically she WAS sexually harrased?? You dont think this is more of a way to try to divert the blame from what she did. If she WAS REALLY sexually harassed then why didnt it come out before she got into trouble for dringking?? Its Clear to me. It was nothing she felt like it was worth mentioning untill SHE got into trouble.

GreenMonster
02-13-2005, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by big daddy russ
It seems to me like everybody's directing the blame away from the student (and the teacher) when that's where it squarely falls. "The Devil made me do it" will never come out of my son's mouth. If he messes up then it's on him. He should be man enough to face the consequences on his own, and he'll face the wrath of the school along with the wrath of pappa.

:clap: :clap: :clap: That right there folks is a good man teaching his kid how it is. I am still going to stand by my belief that the punishment should fit the crime and that when special circumstances arise special treatment should be given. I also agree that everyone involved should face the consequences including the teacher's superiors. It's the American Way. $hit flows downhill and every level of administration above this teacher should get a taste of that $hit. They all bear some amount of responsibility.

rockdale80
02-13-2005, 10:12 PM
I think the only way the administration should be at all responsible is if there was no other chaperone on an overnight e event. Otherwise you never know what some people are capable of. I mean there was a teacher dating a 14 year old boy. And she was married. If I mess up at my job I get in tyouble...not my boss. All I mean by this is too many people try to play the blame game. Noone wants to stand up and take punishment anymore. 18 days is not that big of a deal. Not for drinking at a school function. And the teacher will get his punishment. He will find it very difficult to ever get a job coaching anywhere again. There arent any special circumstances around this. SHE MADE A BAD DECISION. TAKE THE PUNISHMENT. Just my opinion.