NBA indefinitely suspends Artest, O'Neal, Jackson, Wallace

[Holmes_Fans]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-pacers-pistonsbrawl&prov=ap&type=lgns

Whoa

[TheDOCTORdre]

I dont think that Ben Wallaces suspension should be looked at the same as the other 3 players mentioned, he didnt get into an altercation with the fans

[Keith7]

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
I dont think that Ben Wallaces suspension should be looked at the same as the other 3 players mentioned, he didnt get into an altercation with the fans

but he started the whole thing when he over reacted

the rest of those 3 should jsut get monitery fines.. they did what any normal person would do

[Holmes_Fans]

Wallace should of just have gotten fined, maybe a 1-5 game suspension, but not indifinetly. All he did was shove a player, not attack a fan.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Holmes_Fans
Wallace should of just have gotten fined, maybe a 1-5 game suspension, but not indifinetly. All he did was shove a player, not attack a fan.

HE STARTED THE WHOLE THING!!!

and the fans attacked the players.. what are you guys talkin about??

[Diboll_Lumberjackk]

For the rest of year?

[TheDOCTORdre]

Artest was attacked and he reacted in a normal way by going after that fan, but Jackson went with Artest, there was no call for that

[Keith7]

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
Artest was attacked and he reacted in a normal way by going after that fan, but Jackson went with Artest, there was no call for that

he was protecting a teammate...

I would do the same...

i'm just glad that this will prolly put an end to all the stupid talk about last weeks MNF

[TheDOCTORdre]

it probably would have put an end to it but since you brought it up someone is gonna bring up MNF

[Keith7]

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
it probably would have put an end to it but since you brought it up someone is gonna bring up MNF

no i'm sick of hearing it already.. Coach Dungy from the colts said it was Racist.. thats when i knew they were takin it too far

[sinton66]

I don't care who they are or what their reason was, they took it too far and ALL of them need to go to JAIL. Assault is assault, and it IS a crime even at a sporting event.

[Holmes_Fans]

So you think Ben Wallace should go to jail just for shoving someone?

[sinton66]

I think EVERYBODY involved needs to see jailtime, some longer than others. Fines are bullsh*t. Fines mean nothing to multi-millionaire professional athletes. Charges need to be pressed.

[Diboll_Lumberjackk]

So does these player get suspended for the rest of the year?

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Diboll_Lumberjackk
So does these player get suspended for the rest of the year?

in·def·i·nite Audio pronunciation of "indefinitely" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (n-df-nt)
adj.

Not definite, especially:

1. Unclear; vague.
2. Lacking precise limits: an indefinite leave of absence.
3. Uncertain; undecided: indefinite about their plans.

[Diboll_Lumberjackk]

dont be a smart arse.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Diboll_Lumberjackk
dont be a smart arse.

just helpin u out buddy

[Titans]

Fines? Jail? Come on, this is America...

where all the athletes get away with everything.

If you really want to make them hurt....suspend them without pay for the remainder of the season.

I saw the entire thing. It was NOT pretty. Wallace did over-react, but that's on the court. The fans took it way too far and a person reacted...as any normal person would have.

Regardless of who is right/wrong, fining them is pointless. Take away millions from their paycheck may just send a message.

Jail time? I don't know if that works. Ask Kobe, Michael Irvin, Nate Newton, Ray Lewis, OJ Simpson how well that worked. If you really want a perfect case...take Darry Strawberry. He was arrested 5+ times for possession of cocaine and attempt to distribute and was basically sent free every freaking time.

The court system really does send a wonderful message to athletes doesn't it?

[big daddy russ]

I agree with you completely, Titans. First off, the fans were way out of line, but how do you punish your revenue? I don't hold it against Artest for sticking up for himself. I didn't see the game but my brother said that they had thrown some stuff at him earlier also... right after him and Wallace got in the fight. I don't agree with it getting that out of hand, but I always believe that the person who incites it has to be man enough to step up to the table and accept RESPONSIBILITY. If you do childish stuff like that, you should expect to get the snot beat out of you.

Does that justify what the Pacers did?
Nope, but it puts blame where the blame is really due.

[3afan]

Originally posted by Keith7
but he started the whole thing when he over reacted

the rest of those 3 should jsut get monitery fines.. they did what any normal person would do

no, no, no - NOTHING justifies players going into the stands - N.O.T.H.I.N.G !!! they should be suspended & fined AT LEAST

[Keith7]

Originally posted by 3afan
no, no, no - NOTHING justifies players going into the stands - N.O.T.H.I.N.G !!! they should be suspended & fined AT LEAST

you are right.. getting hit in the face w/ a full cup of beer.. he shoud just sit there and laugh about it..

I guess fans should be aloud to do that stuff?

[3afan]

good lord - did anybody say that? no. let security & local law enforcement handle it. there is no other solution unless you want to have a glass wall or netting around the court!

[Hawk Fan Izzy]

As a professional basketball player, you do not attack your fans. Period.

Artest should have the second lightest punishment, because he did get attack. Jason and O'Neal should get hit hard.

Poor Wallace, over-reacted, but shouldn't be connected with the rest.

[congo]

The one that should be fined the most and suspended the most is Wallace for starting it all.....The fall was not that hard or intentional for him to react that way......Artest suprised me by not punching him after that......Why are you gonna punish the NBA players for having stupid fans they looked like a bunch of animals.....Hopefully those fans get put in jail and are banned from all sporting events that are professional.....I don't blame the Pacers for pounding on the fans.....They deserved it.....If it were the innocent fans thats a different story but those IDIOTS did deserve what they got for acting foolish.....NBA players are not gods as niether are you people in this forum so to say that they shouldn't act that way is kind of uncalled for....They are professionals but not as human beings....As NBA, NFL, MLB,etc players......As you can see many of the professionals now and days are like regular citizens.....Murders, drug addicts, rapers, and etc....If it takes incidents like these for people to start dawging these stars them something is wrong with the world when they let stars that break the law get away with it....I'm finished with this Peace out

[congo]

Originally posted by Hawk Fan Izzy
As a professional basketball player, you do not attack your fans. Period.

Artest should have the second lightest punishment, because he did get attack. Jason and O'Neal should get hit hard.

Poor Wallace, over-reacted, but shouldn't be connected with the rest.

As a fan you should not be stupid and attack the players....Works both ways.......You get what you deserve

[Hawk Fan Izzy]

There are 20,000 fans in the arena. Which one threw it at you? Apparently, Artest went after the WRONG ONE!
That's why you don't go attack the fans. You don't know who you're hitting.

Watch the video.

[3afan]

for all you 'guys' saying its OK for players to attack fans - for any reason - one day you'll grow up and see this for what it is

[Keith7]

Originally posted by 3afan
for all you 'guys' saying its OK for players to attack fans - for any reason - one day you'll grow up and see this for what it is

or maybe you guys are livin in the past when fans didnt attack players

[congo]

Originally posted by Hawk Fan Izzy
There are 20,000 fans in the arena. Which one threw it at you? Apparently, Artest went after the WRONG ONE!
That's why you don't go attack the fans. You don't know who you're hitting.

Watch the video.

Did you not see the one he went after throw what he had in his hand in Artest's face???? Nough said

[3afan]

Originally posted by Keith7
or maybe you guys are livin in the past when fans didnt attack players

so you are saying, that in this day & age, 2004, it is OK for players to attack fans? is that what the above quote is supposed to mean? 'cause that is how i interpreted it.

[congo]

Originally posted by 3afan
so you are saying, that in this day & age, 2004, it is OK for players to attack fans? is that what the above quote is supposed to mean? 'cause that is how i interpreted it.

So its okay for fans to attack players????

[Tiger90]

There are NBA rules for a reason. Was it appropriate for the fans to act the way they did....no, but it was far more wrong the way the players reacted. Wallace deserved a fine, but the others deserve the rest of the year off. I suspect they might get that. Security and law enforcement could have handled the fans. As for the players, they are ambassadors for their city, team, and most importantly, NBA. They gave all a blackeye by their actions. All they did was reinforce the notion that the NBA has become a group of punk thugs. Unfortunately it overshadows the sacrifices players like Magic, Bird, Walton, etc. made to help bring the league to prominance. They are not stars who the NBA should be thankful for, but rather punks who should be thankful to the NBA for giving them the opportunity to be successful and display their talents.

[TheDOCTORdre]

Lets examine this like this if I throw beer at someone at their place of business, what do you think that person is going to do, so why should we expect an NBA person to act any different?

[Tiger90]

It's not "their" place of business, they don't own the arena. If you throw a beer at the WalMart greeter and they attack you who gets laidoff/fired?

[3afan]

Originally posted by congo
So its okay for fans to attack players????

i do believe that is what keith is saying ...........

[TheDOCTORdre]

Maybe the beer is the problem

[Hawk Fan Izzy]

Originally posted by congo
Did you not see the one he went after throw what he had in his hand in Artest's face???? Nough said

Yeah, a beer in his left hand. So tell me, are you saying he was holding two beers? And not only that, did you see the distance between him and floor? Not very conducive for a good throw.

Furthermore, it was probably the guy in white that went after Artest as soon as he was beating up on the guy in the black shirt.

[stallion02]

Okay, I have watched the fim several times. I don't think Artest did anything too terrible. Things escalated because he went into the stands, but he didn't really harm the fan he went after. He could've easily bashed the guys face in (which I bet most of the other players would have done) but he just kinda pushed him. Steven Jackson hit a fan but that was only after the fans started assaulting Artest.

If you watch the plays leading up to the "flagrant" foul, play was already very rough. Wallace fouled Artest hard acouple of possesions earlier, so Wallace definitely overreacted. Sometimes the whole atmosphere of the game is just more physical than others.

But back to what i was saying. I think 99% of the blame easily lands on the fans. Artest got the right guy when he went into the stands. You can see it on a wide angle view of what happened. The fans acted horrible. Those guys that went down on the court and stepped up to Artest and O'neal got what was coming to them. Them getting hit was just a result of them attacking someone that fights better than them. They tried to be tough guys and thats what happened. Its never appropriate for violence like that to break out, but the agressor was the fans. Dont place too much of this on the players. They're just as human as the fans. I hope that kinda wraps this conversation up.

[Holmes_Fans]

http://img75.exs.cx/img75/1775/wham.gif

[Keith7]

Originally posted by 3afan
so you are saying, that in this day & age, 2004, it is OK for players to attack fans? is that what the above quote is supposed to mean? 'cause that is how i interpreted it.

read it again.. it says for FANS TO ATTACK PLAYERS..

not vice versa.. jeez

and i never said it was ok..

[sinton66]

The idiot fans need to go to jail too.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by sinton66
The idiot fans need to go to jail too.

esp. since they started the whole mess

[Keith7]

Originally posted by stallion02

But back to what i was saying. I think 99% of the blame easily lands on the fans. Artest got the right guy when he went into the stands. You can see it on a wide angle view of what happened. The fans acted horrible. Those guys that went down on the court and stepped up to Artest and O'neal got what was coming to them. Them getting hit was just a result of them attacking someone that fights better than them. They tried to be tough guys and thats what happened. Its never appropriate for violence like that to break out, but the agressor was the fans. Dont place too much of this on the players. They're just as human as the fans. I hope that kinda wraps this conversation up.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[tmac]

if u were at work typin on your computer or whatever u do would u want somebody throwin stuff at you?i know they are on a different stage and that talent supposidly comes with responsibilities but there is such a thing as respect and crossing the line.Why hate a guy whos doin what he gets paid to do, i mean sure everyone hates some players like i cant stand terrell owens but i would respect him enough to not throw stuff at him when hes doin his job although i LOVED george teagues hit on him when he danced on the star in dallas.Aside from some mumbling to myself i think he deserves respect as a player and i give it to him,but not as a person.I guarentee if these fans saw the original big ben (wallace not hamburgalor) in the streets they would do nothing like what they did at the arena.

[3afan]

OK, i've listened to sereval talk shows on Fox radio & ESPN radio --- 100% of the players & coaches interviewed, and the hosts, says its never, NEVER, okay for players to go into the stands. yes the fans need to be held accountable, but for players to take matters into their own hands is just unacceptable. i'm amazed that some of you think its ok for players to go into the stands.

and i wouldn't quite say Ron Artest was "attacked".

[tmac]

what exactly would u say....so its okay for me to go to your work and throw a cup of beer on you and u just sit there like a good boy and wait for the big boys to put him in his place?Get real you would react in a similar way unless your just a huge pushover

[Rabbit'93]

In the real world here's what happens.....If I'm at a club and I bump into a guy. he turns around and pushes me, I push back. He swings, I swing. We both go to jail. This isn't high school where these multimillion dollar "professionals" can say "he started it, not me".

The players are wrong for going into the stands..period.

First of all there is no way of knowing who threw the drink. I don't care what you say that was not the right guy Artest went after. Jackson just wanted to fight from the get-go. He wasn't protecting Artest. He just went after the first person that got in his way.

Secondly you let security and the police handle the jerk that threw the drink. If I have a customer who shoves me and then I shove back...I lose my job.

Everyone involved needs jail time for inciting a riot. Players and fans.

What kills me the most is the picture of the little boy crying. That kid has no idea of what just happened. Then over by the tunnel a dad had to protect his little girl from idiots throwing crap. These "professionals" owe it to kids like these to handle themselves better than everyone else. Thats what they're paid to do.

[3afan]

Originally posted by tmac
what exactly would u say....so its okay for me to go to your work and throw a cup of beer on you and u just sit there like a good boy and wait for the big boys to put him in his place?Get real you would react in a similar way unless your just a huge pushover

thats an unrealistic analogy

[TheDOCTORdre]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
These "professionals" owe it to kids like these to handle themselves better than everyone else. Thats what they're paid to do.
They're paid to play basketball

[Hawk Fan Izzy]

And with that paycheck to play basketball, they're also assuming responsibilities, like being a proper ambassador to a game.

[Keith7]

Originally posted by Hawk Fan Izzy
And with that paycheck to play basketball, they're also assuming responsibilities, like being a proper ambassador to a game.

getting hit in the face w/ cups is a very popular way to be a ambassador of the game

[Hawk Fan Izzy]

Look, he's a professional "something".

Now tell me, if you had been at your own work place and had reacted the way he did, would you have not gotten fired? My goodness, he probably will never know who actually threw the cup at him, and he must have known that other people on his team would have followed.

Artest isn't exactly the most mature kid on the block. He's shown his inability to reason and to think like an adult.

[District303aPastPlayer]

im sorry if you guys and gals eat me alive, but i am siding with artest on this one. those drunked idiots deserved to be beat down for their idiotic behavior. . . the situation was under control until some sphinkter threw the cup of beer on him. . . everything would have been okay. . but that idiot had to go and incite things. . . The guy who got knocked out deserved it. .

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by 3afan
OK, i've listened to sereval talk shows on Fox radio & ESPN radio --- 100% of the players & coaches interviewed, and the hosts, says its never, NEVER, okay for players to go into the stands.... Read this (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYTg2ZTBwBF9TAzk1ODYxOTQ4BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=sk-brawl&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

...and this (http://post.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quizresults.php?poll_id=1953&wv=1)

[Chupacabra]

If I were president I would line them all up and shoot them.



Oh, and by the way, Artest knocked the fire out of that one dude on the court...awesome.


Also, if fights like this we're guaranteed to happen every game, I would be a much bigger fan of basketball, or any sport for that matter. People only really want to see fighting, because it's what makes the world go 'round. Actually, all rules from all sports should be scrapped, and we should turn them all into big fighting matches, studies show that the networks will have a 437% increase of viewermanshipism over the current amount of viewers. And those viewers wouldn't be as white trash as some of the people I know, one guy buys armadillo tails. If I did something like that it would be tite. Then we finds out that he is actually something cool, and he places some quarters in the machine, but I ain't wgat tyoillllllllllllllllll

[pirate44]

these guys are thugs and need to be taught a lesson. if i were to get in a fight at work no matter who started it, i would be fired. :mad:

[3afan]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Read this (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYTg2ZTBwBF9TAzk1ODYxOTQ4BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=sk-brawl&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

...and this (http://post.polls.yahoo.com/quiz/quizresults.php?poll_id=1953&wv=1)

first link didnt work

second link - in a poll it was voted that the fans were to blame. agree to a point. but, that still does not justify players going into the stands IMO.

[3afan]

Statement from NBA Commissioner David Stern Concerning the Altercation During the Detroit Pistons and Indiana Pacers Game Last Night at The Palace of Auburn Hills

NEW YORK, Nov. 20 -- NBA Commissioner David Stern issued the following statement today:

“The events at last night’s game were shocking, repulsive and inexcusable -- a humiliation for everyone associated with the NBA. This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games. Our investigation is ongoing and I expect it to be completed by tomorrow evening.

The NBA has taken the following actions, effective immediately:

1. Indiana players Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O’Neal are suspended indefinitely, the length to be determined upon completion of the investigation.

2. Detroit player Ben Wallace is suspended indefinitely, the length to be determined upon completion of the investigation.

3. Review of rules and procedures relating to altercations and security have been undertaken so that fans can continue to attend our games unthreatened by events such as the ones that occurred last night.”

[pirate44]

Originally posted by 3afan
first link didnt work

second link - in a poll it was voted that the fans were to blame. agree to a point. but, that still does not justify players going into the stands IMO.
amen

[HornetMom]

Copied from the article:

"Artest was benched for two games this month for asking Pacers coach Rick Carlisle for time off because of a busy schedule that included promoting a rap album.

Artest was suspended twice by the NBA last season, once for leaving the bench during a fracas at a Pacers-Celtics playoff game; the other for elbowing Portland's Derek Anderson. During the 2002-03 season, Artest was suspended five times by the NBA and once by the Pacers for a total of 12 games.

Artest also once grabbed a television camera and smashed it to the ground after a loss to the Knicks two years ago. "


IMO, sounds like there is a history here...suspensions don't seem to have made a difference.

[jason]

i dont think the players should have gone into the stands, but the ones that attacked players on the court deserved the beat down...

...in a quote i saw on espn from ron artest 'it was self defense'.....

[tap_tx_sinton]

As far as we all know is that none of the fans were drunk. Just because you like to enjoy a cold one at the game does not make the fan drunks. Bottom line the player should be able to keep his cool. Play should of stopped. Police should of escourted fan out of building.

[3afan]

Originally posted by jason
i dont think the players should have gone into the stands, but the ones that attacked players on the court deserved the beat down...

...in a quote i saw on espn from ron artest 'it was self defense'.....

Artest on the court - yes it could be self defense :: in the stands, no, it was assault

[jason]

Originally posted by 3afan
Artest on the court - yes it could be self defense :: in the stands, no, it was assault dont argue with me :eek:

























:inlove:

[Titans]

Let's face it...

the security nor the police were in a position to make an aggressive act to control the fans...they never are.

Sure it's the responsibility of the player(s) to control their actions as well on the court, but so must the fans. Just because they purchase tickets doesn't give them to qualifications to "assault" a player, whether verbally or physically.

If I'm Artest, I press assault charges on the person who throw something in his face...similar to the NFL lineman who sued for the official throwing the flag into his eye.

I wonder if Jason's posts or anybody else's post would be the same if any of the Mavericks were involved??????

[3afan]

Originally posted by Titans
Let's face it...

the security nor the police were in a position to make an aggressive act to control the fans...they never are.

and you cant expect them to be ... what do you want, police/security lining the court the entire game ????? lets give them credit for reponding as quickly as they could .... what happened - both the fan throwing the cup and Artest charging the stands - happened too quick for anyone to have forseen it or prevented it ... all anyone could do is react as fast and best as they could


Originally posted by Titans
If I'm Artest, I press assault charges on the person who throw something in his face...similar to the NFL lineman who sued for the official throwing the flag into his eye.

heck yeah - that guy deserves to be charged, just as anyone who threw any punches or any items deserves to be charged


Originally posted by Titans
...
I wonder if Jason's posts or anybody else's post would be the same if any of the Mavericks were involved??????
IMO I dont think which team that was involved is influencing anyones opinion on this

[TheDOCTORdre]

Originally posted by 3afan
IMO I dont think which team that was involved is influencing anyones opinion on this
I think that if it wasnt for Artest being involved it wouldnt be as talked about as much as it is. Artest is one of the "Bad Boys" of the NBA and people jump all over it, and it deserves to be jumped over dont try and misquote what I am saying, but its also like Terrel Owens and the MNF skit, if it wasnt Terrel Owens do you really think people would have made as big of a deal as they did about it. IMO if it wasnt for Artest past people wouldn't be bashing him the way they are now

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by 3afan
first link didnt work

second link - in a poll it was voted that the fans were to blame. agree to a point. but, that still does not justify players going into the stands IMO. Here you go, 3afan... I can't seem to get that link to work even though the correct URL is entered in. Just copy and paste.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpYTg2ZTBwBF9TAzk1ODYxOTQ4BHNlYwN0 bQ--?slug=sk-brawl&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

My only point with the poll is that just about everyone realizes that the fans were absolutely to blame for the whole incident. While I don't agree with Artest's actions, I've seen what those guys go through on a day to day basis. They live their lives (especially during the season) on their last nerve.

Stuff like that was actually commonplace during the early-20th and late-19th centuries in baseball and football games. Those guys back then didn't have the mass media coverage, but it actually happened quite often. One of the more infamous Ty Cobb stories was of him jumping up into the stands and beating one of the fans to an absolute pulp. Nobody was going to stand in his way.

While stuff like that shouldn't be accepted and the player should shoulder the blame for his own actions, the fans should be repremanded in a much harsher manner.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by TheDOCTORdre
I think that if it wasnt for Artest being involved it wouldnt be as talked about as much as it is. Artest is one of the "Bad Boys" of the NBA and people jump all over it, and it deserves to be jumped over dont try and misquote what I am saying, but its also like Terrel Owens and the MNF skit, if it wasnt Terrel Owens do you really think people would have made as big of a deal as they did about it. IMO if it wasnt for Artest past people wouldn't be bashing him the way they are now Trust me, if it was David Robinson or Ray Allen it would still be talked about. Do you remember the whole Robin Ventura/Nolan Ryan brawl back in the early-90's? Neither one was considered a "bad guy" but that fight sticks out in just about everyone's mind despite the fact that Ryan was one of the greatest ambassadors MLB's ever had.

[jason]

Originally posted by Titans


I wonder if Jason's posts or anybody else's post would be the same if any of the Mavericks were involved?????? i wouldnt change my opinion...but i have faith that the dallas fans have enough sense to be civil so i dont think anything like this will ever happen....

[TheDOCTORdre]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Trust me, if it was David Robinson or Ray Allen it would still be talked about. Do you remember the whole Robin Ventura/Nolan Ryan brawl back in the early-90's? Neither one was considered a "bad guy" but that fight sticks out in just about everyone's mind despite the fact that Ryan was one of the greatest ambassadors MLB's ever had.
Now what did I say I said dont misquote me that it still needs to be talked about, but if David Robinson was ever in that situation and went into the stands, more people would say that it was the fan's fault than Robinsons

[tmac]

the fan messed up and got punked for it its that simple i would do the same if i had something thrown at me.What bugs me is Ben Wallace is in this when his actions at least took place on the court and not for a good reason but for a reason he reacted to the total baltant(spelling) foul on him

[3afan]

Originally posted by tmac
the fan messed up and got punked for it ...

:rolleyes: well that statement kind of says it all for you ...

what about the innocent kid who may get hurt in this ???

[tmac]

he didnt get hurt he saw a fight kids see people get murdered so i think that little kid can handle a few punches:rolleyes:

[3afan]

so if an athlete enters the stands and your 6 year old son (***analogy) gets hurt as a result then thats okay because the fan who instigated things got what he deserves (got "punked"). yeah thats a good solution. besides the kid saw a murder last week so his broken arm won't bother him.

[SintonFan]

Those players will pay for it. First the suspensions, then the lawsuits will come in rapidly. Believe me, they will pay and pay and pay...

[Rabbit'93]

Originally posted by tmac
he didnt get hurt he saw a fight kids see people get murdered so i think that little kid can handle a few punches:rolleyes:

Tmac your youthful ignorance shows through here. It is up to all adults to see that no harm should come to a child. A fight can be tramatic for kids. You think the little boy that was ballin' his eyes out @ the Palace is no big deal. You don't go to a basketball game with your kids hoping a fight breaks out.

[Flourhead]

whats really sorry about all this is that the players are gonna be punished for doing anything any normal person would do... if someone throws a cup of beer in your face are u just gonna do nothing about it? if you do then you have no pride in yourself.... none of those fans will be punished for hitting the players... instead they're gonna be getting money just because a player hit them back...

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Flourhead
whats really sorry about all this is that the players are gonna be punished for doing anything any normal person would do... if someone throws a cup of beer in your face are u just gonna do nothing about it? if you do then you have no pride in yourself.... none of those fans will be punished for hitting the players... instead they're gonna be getting money just because a player hit them back...
.
Look, you can't justify the unjustifiable.
Defense is one thing, but they went way past just self defense.

[tmac]

u dont know me,if i had kids i would LOVE for them to see that,your plain ignorance shows always go back to 93.I didnt say that people do goto games for that!!!but a fight isnt the end of the world:rolleyes:

[3afan]

you're wrong Flourhead - several fans ("at least half a dozen") will be charged according to the Wayne County Sheriff. It takes time to properly analyze video, interview witnesses, etc.

and i wish people would quite trying to compare this to "if it happened to you on the street" ... its not the same

[Flourhead]

a crime is a crime no matter where it is committed so they will be punished the same as if it were on the street

[jason]

Originally posted by Flourhead
a crime is a crime no matter where it is committed so they will be punished the same as if it were on the street i disagree because when you buy that ticket it usually says something on the back along the lines of 'i will not interfere with or throw things on the court or at players' (dont quote that) but there is usually something to that affect...if the fans break that 'contract' then its punishable...there is not a thing such as those on the 'streets'

[tmac]

good point:clap: :clap: :clap:

[3afan]

Originally posted by tmac
u dont know me,if i had kids i would LOVE for them to see that,your plain ignorance shows always go back to 93.I didnt say that people do goto games for that!!!but a fight isnt the end of the world:rolleyes:

if you had kids you'd want them to see WHAT ????

and what does "your plain ignorance shows always go back to 93" mean?

[tmac]

if u dont understand it then it wasnt for you:nerd:

[TheDOCTORdre]

People say they feel sorry for the kids because they saw the players act the way they did, but I guarantee you that some of those kids parents were out on the court acting like fools as well

[3afan]

well i'll just repeat what someone else already said :: "Tmac your youthful ignorance shows through"

:clap:

[tmac]

:rolleyes: .......................:thumbsup:have fun with all that:cheerl:

[Rabbit'93]

Originally posted by tmac
if u dont understand it then it wasnt for you:nerd:
OK it was intended for me, and I don't understand...would you fill me in.:confused:

When I was a teenager I thought just like you. The great thing about age is that wisdom usually comes with it. If someone threw a drink at me, on me, or near me, I would have to use better judgement on whether or not I would retalliate(sp). Do I really want to end up possibly hurt, in jail, or worse hurting somenone else. Does that that mean I have no pride....I don't think so. I think I have 3 other people and a career to think about.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by tmac
he didnt get hurt he saw a fight kids see people get murdered so i think that little kid can handle a few punches:rolleyes: That man probably paid $150 for his and his sons' tickets. Then he probably paid an extra $25 or so for drinks and snacks and what-nots. Would you expect to pay $175 to put your kid in harm's way? There's no doubt I'd be raising all kinds of hell if I had a kid who was put in harm's way.

If you paid that much to see a boxing match, that's awesome, but boxing is CONTROLLED violence. What happened in The Palace wasn't. I would never pay that much to freak the bejeezus out of my son and scar him for life. Remember, that kid doesn't know what's going on. All he knows is that there's a 6'7" 235-lb. man up in the stands barreling down on somebody a few rows down from him. I don't live in the ghetto and don't want the ghetto to come to my kid.

[big daddy russ]

Originally posted by tmac
the fan messed up and got punked for it its that simple i would do the same if i had something thrown at me...

Originally posted by Flourhead
... if someone throws a cup of beer in your face are u just gonna do nothing about it? if you do then you have no pride in yourself....
You guys are still young. I'm not dogging you for it, but everything changes when you have kids. Your sense of when to fight and when to back down will change as you get older. It becomes more about others than yourself. You'll understand one of these days.

The kid is the main thing that comes to mind whenever I think of this incident. I'm glad that the league issued 30-game suspensions for the guys who were involved. They'll get what's coming to them, and so will the fans who incited the whole thing.

P.S. When I was writing this, talking about when to fight and when not to fight I kept thinking about that old Kenny Rogers song "Coward of the County." I love that song. I think I'll download it.

[Hawk Fan Izzy]

Ron Artest was being plain stupid when he went up there. He did not think of the repercusions, only of the immediate.

I really do feel bad for the little kid though. Big Daddy Russ is right; if a basketball player was punching his way throug a crowd, that would scare the little fellow because he expects to see a basketball game, not a guy running at him that is really mad.

[tmac]

all im sayin is u wouldnt sit and thinka bout it u would just react.

[mustang04]

its crazy about everything, but i think the fans that were involved by agging on the players should have something done to them, and Wallace should only have gotten a technical and a fine, ive seen several players push each other and it not turn into anything, i have to say it was the fans that made it what it became this time

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by mustang04
its crazy about everything, but i think the fans that were involved by agging on the players should have something done to them, and Wallace should only have gotten a technical and a fine, ive seen several players push each other and it not turn into anything, i have to say it was the fans that made it what it became this time :clap:

[3afan]

the responsible fans will get whats coming to them but it could take some time ...

[kaorder1999]

there are absolutly no excuses for what happened Friday night. Fans have done the same thing for years and years and years. They are going to heckle the players. There will be things said that are wrong. Though I'm not saying what fans do and say are right...i'm saying that fans have been like this for years. Players have to realize that they cannot go into the stands. What Artest did and some of these other players did was physically assault fans. The suspensions should be just a partial punishment. If lawsuits are not filed against certain players then that shows you how our society accepts what happened. Artest should be charged with assault and punished just as someone on the stret would be punished.

Hmm....anybody ever think this could be an attempt to promote himself and his "rapping" career? Don't think he expected to lose his year salary though.

[3afan]

no - he's not that smart .....

[Necked]

Originally posted by 3afan
the responsible fans will get whats coming to them but it could take some time ...

Well, here he is, in all his moronic glory....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1123041green1.html

Soon to be known as "Tiffany" to his cell mates....

[3afan]

Pacers, fans to be charged

04:46 AM CST on Tuesday, November 23, 2004

From Wire Reports

Authorities in Auburn Hills, Mich., confirmed Monday that they intend to file charges against members of the Indiana Pacers – as well as a number of fans – involved in Friday night's brawl during a game between the Pacers and Detroit Pistons.

"Charges are forthcoming," Oakland County prosecutor David Gorcyca said. "Players and fans will be charged."

It will be at least two weeks before the evidence is gathered and charges are filed, said Lt. James Manning of the Auburn Hills Police Department.

Police have also begun investigating reports Indiana's David Harrison struck a man during the melee out of camera range. Harrison, via a Pacers spokesman, declined to comment.

If charges are filed, they probably would be for assault and battery, a misdemeanorthat could bring a three-month jail sentence, Gorcyca said. The only possible felony charge could be against the person who hurled a chair into the crowd.

John Green of West Bloomfield Township was the fan who threw a cup at Ron Artest, Gorcyca said. Green, however, told reporters he didn't throw it.

Green has several criminal convictions, including felony assault with intent to do great bodily harm. Green was not supposed to drink alcohol as a condition of his probation, Gorcyca said. He has three drunken-driving convictions, Gorcyca said.

Coincidentally, the prosecutor and Green used to be neighbors in Royal Oak during the early 1990s.

"I wish the whole thing didn't happen," Green said. "I'm sure the NBA players that got involved in it wish it never happened, the fans never wished that it had happened. I know I don't. It was awful, it was ugly."

On Sunday, the NBA suspended Artest for the rest of the season. Others who were suspended include: Indiana's Stephen Jackson for 30 games and Jermaine O'Neal for 25. Detroit's Ben Wallace – whose shove of Artest after a foul led to the five-minute fracas – drew a six-game ban.

The players union has said it will appeal the three Pacers' bans. Wallace said he won't challenge his suspension.

Pacers coach Rick Carlisle said the lengths of the suspensions were a "very tough pill to swallow."

[Ranger Mom]

John Green was on Good Morning America along with his attorney this morning!

here is the link - HIS STORY (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/story?id=275776&page=1)

[3afan]

Artest questions fairness of suspension

11:38 AM CST on Tuesday, November 23, 2004

Associated Press


INDIANAPOLIS – Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest said Tuesday he wishes he hadn't gotten into a fight with fans but feels his season-ending suspension was too harsh.

"I don't think it was fair – that many games," Artest said in an interview with NBC's "Today" show. "I respect (NBA Commissioner) David Stern's decisions, but I don't think I should have been out for the whole season."


It was Artest's first national interview since he was suspended for charging into the stands and fighting with fans late in Friday night's game against the Detroit Pistons in Auburn Hills, a Detroit suburb. The suspension amounts to 72 games in an 82-game season, and means he will lose about $5 million.

Four other Pacers players were suspended for shorter periods, including Stephen Jackson (30 games) and Jermaine O'Neal (25 games).

Artest bolted into the stands after being hit by a cup thrown by a spectator, touching off a brawl in which players exchanged punches with fans, who also doused the Pacers with drinks, popcorn, a chair and other debris.

"I wish that situation never happened," Artest said. "It wasn't good at all, for anybody."

"This is the third time that I've been hit with something out of the crowd," said Artest, who claimed he had been struck previously in Detroit and in Cleveland.

No charges had been filed in the brawl, but if any are they most likely would be misdemeanor assault and battery, Oakland County, Mich., prosecutor David Gorcyca said Monday.

The only possible felony charge currently under consideration would be against the unidentified person who hurled a chair into the crowd, Gorcyca said. Authorities asked the public to help identify that person.

Once Artest was in the stands, Green grabbed him from behind and sucker-punched him, the prosecutor said.

Green, 39, a contractor, told reporters Monday that it may have looked like he threw the cup, but he didn't.

"I wish the whole thing didn't happen," he said. "It was awful, it was ugly."

Green's attorney, Shawn Smith, said his client only became involved in the brawl when he saw Artest hitting a smaller man.

"We have no comment on who threw the cup, it's irrelevant," Smith said. He said fans shouldn't throw things, "but is it a criminal offense? I don't think so."

During an appearance Tuesday on ABC's "Good Morning America," Green described himself as a respected businessman with a wife and two children. He said he was not drinking Friday night.

"I don't go around breaking the law," he said "If they have found that I broke the law, I'll pay the price."

But Gorcyca said Green was on probation for his third offense of driving under the influence. Green's record also includes convictions for carrying a concealed weapon and check fraud, according to the Michigan Department of Corrections' database.

Pistons chief executive Tom Wilson said Green is a season-ticket holder and will be banned from The Palace.

Auburn Hills Police Chief Doreen Olko said her office had spoken to nine people who said they were injured in the fight, but that the injuries were relatively minor.

Artest had not yet been interviewed by Michigan authorities, the chief said.

During the "Today" interview, simulcast with Indianapolis radio station WNOU, Artest plugged his new CD and wore a T-shirt and hat emblazoned with the logo of his record label – TruWarier Records.

Artest said he had no ill will toward Detroit's Ben Wallace, who got things started when he shoved Artest after a foul late in the game.

"Wallace just had a death in the family, so I'm understanding," he said Monday night on WHHH radio in Indianapolis.

[Keith7]

SportsNation: Fans to blame, but Artest overreacted
ESPN.com SportsNation

How did we get here?

Ron Artest in the stands


In a span of mere minutes, the dynamic of professional sports in American culture seemed to have changed. The images of players battling fans in the stands at the Palace of Auburn Hills, fans battling players on the court and children in tears will not soon be forgotten. And while Friday's brawl in Detroit may be example of a long-simmering pot finally reaching a rolling boil, its suddenness and ferocity still shocked fans nationwide.

But after a weekend to reflect on Friday night's events and Sunday's resulting punishments, not to mention watch countless replays of the fiasco, where does SportsNation pin the blame? And where do we go from here?

The Blame Game
With a national television audience tuned in to a battle of the Eastern Conference's top teams, it didn't take long for opinions to be formed on the brawl near the end of the Pacers-Pistons game. Below are SportsNation poll results that begain flowing in the minutes and hours after the game.

Who is most to blame for Friday night's brawl in Detroit?
46.4 %: Detroit fans
39.4 %: Ron Artest
9.3 %: Ben Wallace
4.8 %: Detroit security
0.6 %: Referees

Do you fault Ron Artest for going into the stands after being hit from close range by a full cup of beer and other items?
58.6 %: Yes, he has to have a cooler head and let security handle it.
41.4 %: No, any person has a right to defend him or herself in that situation.

Do you fault other Pacers players for going into the stands after Artest reacted?
50.5 %: No, they've got to protect a teammate
49.5 %: Yes, they weren't attacked but they escalated the situation

Total votes: 193,938 votes

Immediately after the game, the majority of fans pinned the bulk of the blame on the fans in Detroit, with a clear majority supporting Artest's teammates for following him into the stands. But with more time to think -- the kind of time Artest didn't have in the heat of the moment -- SportsNation slowly shifted blame in Artest's direction. The above results represent about a 5 percent increase in blame for Artest from the initial results Saturday morning.

Verdict Rendered
NBA Commissioner David Stern handed down his punishments swiftly, but Sunday's suspensions still came after a weekend of discussion over what should happen to the involved players. And again, SportsNation took an increasingly hard-line stance toward the Pacers. Here are the percentages of fans over the weekend favoring suspensions of more than 10 games for the players:

50.0 %: Ron Artest
42.5 %: Stephen Jackson
32.9 %: Jermaine O'Neal

So was SportsNation satisfied when Stern handed down his rulings -- suspending Artest for the rest of the season, Jackson for 30 games and O'Neal for 25 games?

What is your reaction to Ron Artest's season-long suspension?
43.7 %: Just right
41.5 %: Too harsh
14.8 %: Too light

What is your reaction to Stephen Jackson's 30-game suspension?
43.4 %: Just right
29.1 %: Too light
27.4 %: Too harsh

What is your reaction to Jermaine O'Neal's 25-game suspension?
38.7 %: Just right
36.2 %: Too harsh
25.0 %: Too light
Total votes: 168,292 votes

Though the majority of SportsNation was not satisfied with punishments, that group was split between favoring softer or harsher punishments. A plurality of SportsNation thought the NBA got it right with the suspensions.

In the end, there are much bigger issues at hand than what becomes of the Pacers' season, or even what becomes of a combustible figure like Artest. Friday's brawl in Detroit certainly forces professional leagues and fans to reexamine their relationship. Whether it eventually leads to a healthier experience as stadiums and arenas remains to be seen.

For now, we leave it in the words of SportsNation, submitted via mailbags and The Show:


"With alcohol-fueled fans acting more and more brazen, they feel that they can say and do what they wish because they paid their hard-earned money for a ticket and thus, have license to access the playing field or court. Unfortunately, it doesn't come as a surprise that an incident like this has finally occurred in the NBA. A violent occurrence like this was only a matter of when."
Mike
Rancho Santa Margarita, CA

"Not to excuse the actions of the players in any way, but I am tired of drunken fans who feel that they bear no responsibility whatsoever for their conduct. I'd like to see some of the fans who threw things serving prison time for this - maybe that will get the message to people that buying a ticket doesn't excuse you from acting like a human being."
Adam
Chicago, IL

"While the players of the NBA, and all professional sports for that matter, are expected to be above the fans, the brawl Friday was not the responsibility of the players. The confrontation between Ben Wallace and Ron Artest was abating, Artest was laying on the scorers table. Unruly fans are to blame for stoking the dying fire of a confrontation back into a full fledged blaze. And to everyone who automatically puts blame on Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal, and everyone else involved, I pose to you this question. Would you have acted any differently? Artest was merely defending himself, and his teammates were coming to his aid when he was grossly outnumbered. One thing that no one is mentioning, yet featured prominently in many shots of Artest in the crowd is Rasheed Wallace, one of the 'bad boy's' of the NBA jumping into the stands to come to the defense of Artest. Think about that for a while."
Paul Reid
Dallas, TX