just wanted to welcom all of the 4A teams to 3a

[cjeffsjeep]

It might be a lower class but not an easer one
so welcome all you teams

[big daddy russ]

Awesome. I like this guy.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Awesome. I like this guy.

instant cred with me

[spiveyrat]

I disagree. I think 3A CAN be easier than 4A. Though they lost last week, WO-S had almost a cake-walk through district. Whereas, in past years, they played in one of the toughest 4A districts in the state. Jasper has never made it to the semi-finals before and has done so the last two years they've been in 3A. That said, it doesn't mean there aren't REAL good teams in 3A who could compete on 4A and 5A levels. Likewise, there are some 4A and 5A schools who continually have a hard time playing with some 3A schools. Coaches and their programs have a lot to do with the success/failure of each respective team.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I disagree. I think 3A CAN be easier than 4A. Though they lost last week, WO-S had almost a cake-walk through district. Whereas, in past years, they played in one of the toughest 4A districts in the state. Jasper has never made it to the semi-finals before and has done so the last two years they've been in 3A. That said, it doesn't mean there aren't REAL good teams in 3A who could compete on 4A and 5A levels. Likewise, there are some 4A and 5A schools who continually have a hard time playing with some 3A schools. Coaches and their programs have a lot to do with the success/failure of each respective team.

Zapata anyone?

[kaorder1999]

there is a HUGE difference in 4A and 3A in most aspects. Ive been a part of both 4A football and 3A football and 4A football is much tougher.

[cjeffsjeep]

Originally posted by big daddy russ
Awesome. I like this guy.

thanks i think well if i remember right Cuero played GP in a scrimmage and we won that one and there #1 in 4A and were #1 in 3A

[cjeffsjeep]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
Zapata anyone?

didnt they play some 5A schools?

[cjeffsjeep]

yep i was right

5A - 29 Laredo Cigarroa 6
40
3A - 31 Zapata 40

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

I agree. Not that much difference. The district 5 teams play the Wichita Falls 4A schools in non-district every year. Take a guess on the 3A success?

WF Hirschi (dropped down only this year) Lost all 10 games.
WF Old hIgh was beat by Iowa Park
IP also Beat Mineral; Wells and Burkburnett.


On and on and on.

[Hupernikomen]

the classification system pits teams of relative sizes together to compete for state champioships. no state title is easy on anyone.

Northshore in 1A would be easy...Northshore in 2A would be easy. Northshore in 3A would be easy...Northshoer in 4A might be a test...Northshore in 5A is still to be determined...WO-S, Jasper, Gainesville whoever in 3A has to earn it against competition similar to their size...it won't be easy...it isn't suppose to be...haven said that 3A has the biggest discrepancy of size from top to bottom so perhaps it is "easier" for the biggest of the big compared with other classifications but the D-I and D-II thing should handle that.

[Rabbit'93]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
I agree. Not that much difference. The district 5 teams play the Wichita Falls 4A schools in non-district every year. Take a guess on the 3A success?


Surely you jest....not that much of a difference? Have you ever seen Highland Park, Ennis, Wylie or the ton of others that would clobber a good 3A (notice I said good not great). Maybe the schools up there are patsies but I promise you that 4A is tougher than 3A.

[3afan]

you guys are all using the exceptions as examples ...... OF COURSE 4A is tougher top to bottom than 3A, its really a silly argument

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Depends on the team. Of course I played 5A ball at Arlington Martin, so I should have some idea what I'm talking about. The more kids you have the better opportunities that a team has to get a better collection of athletes. That is a given. But even in 4A and 3A you have kids going both ways. What that tells me is that you still have select athletes that are better at two positions than the rest of the comp. In my day let me throw some terrible teams at you: Arlington Heights (4A), Southwest (4A), Western Hills (4A) heck just throw in all the fort worth 4A schools for that matter. They would have a hard time beating the Graham's of 3A. (Meaning the 3A schools that regulary make the playoffs) I would suspect that Everman has been the best 3A school in Fort Worth for many years. That school tends to jump back and forth between 4A and 3A. So what does that say?

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

I will conceed that an Ennis could probably beat all of the 3A teams, but in the same breath they could probably beat almost all of the 5A teams.

Top to bottom 4A has more kids and can produce better teams--Granted. But that is top to bottom. There are many year in and out playoff teams in 3A that could do the same thing in 4A.

[3afan]

just as there are many 4A teams that could win in 5A, many 2A teams that could win in 3A, and many 1A teams that could win in 2A.

[texasjeremy]

Palestine went 1-2 (win over Kilgore, losses to Waco University and Hallsville) in 3 playoff games the past 2 years with Adrian Peterson, now since they have dropped to 3A they are cruising right along. While in 4A, we would occasionally receive a couple of votes in the AP Poll but were never considered one of the better teams in the state.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Originally posted by 3afan
just as there are many 4A teams that could win in 5A, many 2A teams that could win in 3A, and many 1A teams that could win in 2A.

Good point.

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by 3afan
just as there are many 4A teams that could win in 5A, many 2A teams that could win in 3A, and many 1A teams that could win in 2A.

I have never seen a 4A team that could compete with the Northshore team I saw when state last year.

[NSUTrumpet08]

Correct me if i'm wrong...how far did Jasper go in the playoffs back in 1995(?) I remember being like in 2nd or third grade with the game in the Astrodome agaisnt La Marque...i think that was at least the 3rd round of the playoffs in 4A.

[j_dog]

Originally posted by NSUTrumpet08
Correct me if i'm wrong...how far did Jasper go in the playoffs back in 1995(?) I remember being like in 2nd or third grade with the game in the Astrodome agaisnt La Marque...i think that was at least the 3rd round of the playoffs in 4A.
Not sure of the year, but for sure, the year Jasper played LaMarque it was in the QF. And why did you have to bring that up? :( LM cleaned Jasper's clock and most of us would like to forget it. :D According to one LM source that LM team was by far the best of all their state championship teams. They looked at least like a junior college team they were so big, and fast, gosh they were fast! Our QB never even had time to hand off the ball before one of their MANY 6-5 300 pounders would come crashing through for the sack. Bad news! :(

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by j_dog
Not sure of the year, but for sure, the year Jasper played LaMarque it was in the QF. And why did you have to bring that up? :( LM cleaned Jasper's clock and most of us would like to forget it. :D According to one LM source that LM team was by far the best of all their state championship teams. They looked at least like a junior college team they were so big, and fast, gosh they were fast! Our QB never even had time to hand off the ball before one of their MANY 6-5 300 pounders would come crashing through for the sack. Bad news! :(

Yep, that was NOT a banner Bulldog day. :( I think that was '94.

[scrub c]

Originally posted by cjeffsjeep
It might be a lower class but not an easer one
so welcome all you teams

I disagree, 3a is much easier.
Difference is in 3a: the top teams are really good and the middle to bottom teams are really not good.
In 4a, The top teams are REALLY GOOD and the middle teams are real good and the bottom teams are so-so.

btw: I will take 9-1 in 3a vs 1-9 in 4a ANY DAY so thanks for the welcome.....

[cjeffsjeep]

Originally posted by scrub c
I disagree, 3a is much easier.
Difference is in 3a: the top teams are really good and the middle to bottom teams are really not good.
In 4a, The top teams are REALLY GOOD and the middle teams are real good and the bottom teams are so-so.

btw: I will take 9-1 in 3a vs 1-9 in 4a ANY DAY so thanks for the welcome.....

yea but whos playing basketball?

[IHStangFan]

4A ball for the most part is weak this year.

[kaorder1999]

how do you figure? I dont hink 4A is weak this year.

There is a much bigger difference between 3A and 4A ball then there is 4A and 5A ball.

[vet93]

I think that most of the upper level 4a schools would dominate in 3a. When you get to the good, middle of the road 4a schools then the upper level 3a schools compete very well with them. Last year WOS was a good middle of the road 4a school. Therefore the really good 3a schools would compete well with them...that is what we saw this year when they moved down. Overall...common sense will tell you that 4a is more competitve than 3a. By the way...to our young poster from Cuero who put a lot of stock in a scrimmage with the #1 4a.....don't put much stock in that. My junior year we scrimmaged a team from a lower classification and they tied us on touchdowns and beat us up pretty good. Needless to say, we didn't take them very seriously. By the end of the year we were playing in the quarterfinals of our classification and that 2a team would not have come within 40 points of us. Scrimmages mean a great deal to the underdog and very little to the team who is supposed to "win".

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Originally posted by scrub c
I disagree, 3a is much easier.
Difference is in 3a: the top teams are really good and the middle to bottom teams are really not good.
In 4a, The top teams are REALLY GOOD and the middle teams are real good and the bottom teams are so-so.

btw: I will take 9-1 in 3a vs 1-9 in 4a ANY DAY so thanks for the welcome.....

I dissagree. The only 4A school that is decent in the Red River / Amarillo Area is WF Rider and they have two losses. That is a lot of 4A schools that I know the 3A schools around here can compete with or beat.

[scrub c]

Originally posted by cjeffsjeep
yea but whos playing basketball?

Im willing to bet our kids are lifting weights.

[scrub c]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
I dissagree. The only 4A school that is decent in the Red River / Amarillo Area is WF Rider and they have two losses. That is a lot of 4A schools that I know the 3A schools around here can compete with or beat.
sorry, i didnt know they played football up there.

[NSUTrumpet08]

And why did you have to bring that up? LM cleaned Jasper's clock and most of us would like to forget it.

Sorry about that...i know we shutout at that game but it was just a point that Jasper made it to the quaterfinals of the 4A playoffs...sorry to bring up bad memories...

[IHStangFan]

i'm not comparing 3A and 4A teams DIRECTLY, that'd just be silly.....i'm saying the compitetion in 3A ball is alot stiffer than in 4A ball.

[cjeffsjeep]

Originally posted by IHStangFan
i'm not comparing 3A and 4A teams DIRECTLY, that'd just be silly.....i'm saying the compitetion in 3A ball is alot stiffer than in 4A ball.

Thank you at least some one understands what im saying

[IHStangFan]

Originally posted by cjeffsjeep
Thank you at least some one understands what im saying yup.....there are many more "dominating" 3A teams in 3A than there are "dominating" 4A teams in 4A ball.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

There is not much 4A or 5A out West or Red River. Mostley 3A, 2A and 1A and a lot of 6 man teams.

Of course we have the little southwest conf in Lee and the Panthers, Abilene, etc.

[garageoffice]

There are so many factors that go into having a consistently successful program, regardless of whether you are talking 3A, 1A or 5A. Coaching obviously can makes a big difference, but the biggest single factor is total enrollment/participation. That's where it all starts.

The reason that all 5A teams are better than all 1A teams is that they have literally hundreds of kids to choose from to build the team. The average enrollment for a 5A high school is probably somewhere around 2400 students which means they probably have about 1100 guys that could potentially play (statistics say there are a few more girls), roughly 550 in 11th and 12th grade alone (varsity). The average 1A school has somewhere around 130 students, even without a JV that yields only about 55-60 guys to pull from. You find some athletes in 1A that are every bit as good as those in 5A, but you're lucky to have even one on a team.

There are also games that can be played with enrollment. Take Plano High when they were a power, or Southlake Carroll now. Even when Carroll was a 4A school they had more kids to choose from than most 5A programs. Why? Because they built a second high school that was 9th and 10th only and Carroll was 11th and 12th only. That means that even before they made the move to 5A at something like 1900 students they had around 800 potential varsity football players, all 11th and 12th graders! That's more than all but the largest 5A schools! Plano reaped benefits of the same kind of school setup in the '80s and '90s, as I'm sure others do.

That brings up an intersting question. Do you know of any 3A or 4A high schools that are 11th and 12th grade only? If so, how successful are they?

[Parentnator]

Z Motion 1st of all Everman is not from Fort Worth it's not called Fort Worth Everman, Just like it's not called Wichita Falls Vernon! Yes you are correct Everman is the best team and has been for a while in the Fort Worth AREA, second your wrong again Everman has only been in 3A for a grand total of 4 Years as far as I can remember back to 1980. SO you really cant compare them in this argument Everman was a brief member in 3A and really had strong enough teams to make a run in 4A those two years. Garage office is correct about teams like Southlake you tell me how a team can all of a sudden jump from 3A to 5A in a matter of 6 years. Garage hit it on the money because when you split campuses that keeps teams down their is no way Southlake shouldnt have 2 or 3 high schools. I do agree that 4A is tougher than 3A because of depth. the UIL gave Everman a gift but dont get me wrong Everman was very good.