Poll: Iowa Park vs. Graham for District 5 Championship

[GreenMonster]

Who do you think will win this one? Graham has won 27 straight district games. Head to head Iowa Park Seniors won every matchup from 7th through 9th grade.

[Flourhead]

i'm gonna say graham because they stuck with decatur

[Chief Woodman]

If IP wins isn't it a 3-way tie for 1st? Vernon beats IP.....Graham beats Vernon....IP beats Graham. If Graham wins


Graham 1st
Vernon 2nd
IP 3rd

Is that correct?

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
If IP wins isn't it a 3-way tie for 1st? Vernon beats IP.....Graham beats Vernon....IP beats Graham. If Graham wins


Graham 1st
Vernon 2nd
IP 3rd

Is that correct?


I believe that is correct. They will be co-champs the three of them.

[Chief Woodman]

By the way....good luck to the Lions in the playoffs there Z.......

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Chief Woodman
If IP wins isn't it a 3-way tie for 1st? Vernon beats IP.....Graham beats Vernon....IP beats Graham. If Graham wins


Graham 1st
Vernon 2nd
IP 3rd

Is that correct?

IP has to win by 8 or more to be district champs.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

All three teams will have 1 loss. I don't think they crown a district champ by points.

All three will be co-champs.

Then Graham will go D1
IP and Vernon go DII with Vernon as top seed due to head to head. I think that is how it goes but not for sure. If someone knows for sure please post.

Of course that is if IP beats Grahamd and Vernon beats Breck which anything could happen in those two games.

[Hawks83]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
All three teams will have 1 loss. I don't think they crown a district champ by points.

All three will be co-champs.

Then Graham will go D1
IP and Vernon go DII with Vernon as top seed due to head to head. I think that is how it goes but not for sure. If someone knows for sure please post.

Of course that is if IP beats Grahamd and Vernon beats Breck which anything could happen in those two games.

I believe that a point differential would eliminate a tie (and determined a district champion),as well as seed the teams in D2. Iowa Park has to beat Graham by at least 6 points to earn the district title.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
All three teams will have 1 loss. I don't think they crown a district champ by points.

All three will be co-champs.

Then Graham will go D1
IP and Vernon go DII with Vernon as top seed due to head to head. I think that is how it goes but not for sure. If someone knows for sure please post.

Of course that is if IP beats Grahamd and Vernon beats Breck which anything could happen in those two games.

Z, it does go to a point system to break the tie. Hawk83 said 6 points, but I was told by a Hawk player that IP had to win by 8 to be district champs.

If IP loses or wins by less than 8:

Graham Dist Champ - D1
Vernon Dist Runner-up D2
IP 3rd seed - D2

If IP wins by more than 8 points:

Graham Dist Runner-up - D1
Vernon 3rd Seed - D2 (That assumes they beat Breck)
IP Dist. Champ - D2

If Breck beats Vernon, Graham still is D1 and IP is runner-up and Breck is 3rd seed.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Ok I see. I still have a hard time calling a team a distrist champion that is tied with two other teams.

I don't think it will matter too much as all three teams Breck, Iowa Park and Vernon are all better than Pilot Point and Bowie.

I'm not sure which would be better: a second seed or a first. Looking at the bracket, I would want to stay away from Perryton, Snyder, and Sweetwater for as long as possible.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
Ok I see. I still have a hard time calling a team a distrist champion that is tied with two other teams.

I don't think it will matter too much as all three teams Breck, Iowa Park and Vernon are all better than Pilot Point and Bowie.

I'm not sure which would be better: a second seed or a first. Looking at the bracket, I would want to stay away from Perryton, Snyder, and Sweetwater for as long as possible.

BTW, I think Hawk83 is right, it is 6 points instead of 8.

I understand what you are saying about the district champs, but that's the problem with these small districts.

I agree with your assestment of district 6.

I am interested in your assestment of the Graham Vernon game.

My reason is this. I think IP matches up better with Graham than Vernon. Vernon's size gave IP fits. Graham doesn't have the size that Vernon does plus I'm wondering if having one more week to gameplan a Condron-less Graham will be another advantage for the Hawks. I guess what I am getting at is I see this game going the Hawks way this year. It sounds like Vernon won the game statistically but had the one big mistake on the interception. Your thoughts?

[Hawks83]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
Ok I see. I still have a hard time calling a team a distrist champion that is tied with two other teams.

I don't think it will matter too much as all three teams Breck, Iowa Park and Vernon are all better than Pilot Point and Bowie.

I'm not sure which would be better: a second seed or a first. Looking at the bracket, I would want to stay away from Perryton, Snyder, and Sweetwater for as long as possible.

I think Perryton is going to have a real test this week. Should be interesting.

[HighSchool Fan]

If Graham doesn't want to lose 2 games in a row, they better win this friday.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Originally posted by Macarthur
BTW, I think Hawk83 is right, it is 6 points instead of 8.

I understand what you are saying about the district champs, but that's the problem with these small districts.

I agree with your assestment of district 6.

I am interested in your assestment of the Graham Vernon game.

My reason is this. I think IP matches up better with Graham than Vernon. Vernon's size gave IP fits. Graham doesn't have the size that Vernon does plus I'm wondering if having one more week to gameplan a Condron-less Graham will be another advantage for the Hawks. I guess what I am getting at is I see this game going the Hawks way this year. It sounds like Vernon won the game statistically but had the one big mistake on the interception. Your thoughts?

Vernon won the following:
First downs, rushing yards, passing yards, total yards, time of possession, every statistical category there is except one:

The Game.

I watched the game film last night. Graham still executed well and ran hard even without Condron. Vernon actually held them to 14 points. The other 7 coming on teh interception. Vernon got to teh 4 yardline got a penalty and then missed a field goal. Vernon caught a bad break on a pass interference call where the Vernon defender intercepted the ball. Graham broke a 4th down play for a first down on a pnt that was about to be blocked. That occurred on the same drive as the interception. I think those two plays just broke Vernon's back. The deal was that you can only hold Graham so long before they break one on you. Which they did.

Vernon could have won that game very much like IP could have won the Vernon game. I think all 3 teams are very good and whoever catches the breaks wins. Kinda like the Vernon fumblerooskie.

Now on IP and Graham. IP will score on Graham. IP will pass all over Graham. Swenson will run all over Graham. However, Graham will run all over IP with that dive. I don't think IP can stop it.

Having said that whoever makes the least amount of mistakes wins. No fumbles, no interceptions, No penalties at the wrong time etc.

I'll predict a high scoring affair. Of course from Vernon, I would like to see Graham defeated and all three teams share a district title. Then again, I would also rather Vernon play Bowie than Pilot Point. I guess it doesn't really matter as long as Vernon wins Friday against Breck.

My prediction:
Iowa Park 35 - Graham 31

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
Vernon won the following:
First downs, rushing yards, passing yards, total yards, time of possession, every statistical category there is except one:

The Game.

I watched the game film last night. Graham still executed well and ran hard even without Condron. Vernon actually held them to 14 points. The other 7 coming on teh interception. Vernon got to teh 4 yardline got a penalty and then missed a field goal. Vernon caught a bad break on a pass interference call where the Vernon defender intercepted the ball. Graham broke a 4th down play for a first down on a pnt that was about to be blocked. That occurred on the same drive as the interception. I think those two plays just broke Vernon's back. The deal was that you can only hold Graham so long before they break one on you. Which they did.

Vernon could have won that game very much like IP could have won the Vernon game. I think all 3 teams are very good and whoever catches the breaks wins. Kinda like the Vernon fumblerooskie.

Now on IP and Graham. IP will score on Graham. IP will pass all over Graham. Swenson will run all over Graham. However, Graham will run all over IP with that dive. I don't think IP can stop it.

Having said that whoever makes the least amount of mistakes wins. No fumbles, no interceptions, No penalties at the wrong time etc.

I'll predict a high scoring affair. Of course from Vernon, I would like to see Graham defeated and all three teams share a district title. Then again, I would also rather Vernon play Bowie than Pilot Point. I guess it doesn't really matter as long as Vernon wins Friday against Breck.

My prediction:
Iowa Park 35 - Graham 31

Thanks for you assestment. The one thing I think gives IP a better chance than years past to control that veer is that IP's defense is much quicker than in years past. They are not very big, which is why they had such a problem with Vernon's power running game. But Graham and IP are comperable in size in the front 7 and IP, I think, has a bit of a quickness advantage there. Well, we'll see.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

One thing I noticed is that the LB's will have to be very fast to the ball as the Graham backs hit the holes very quick. Also, Vernon was out of position several times and Graham busted 10 or more yards when they happened.

If you play more of a 5 2 it seems like it works better controlling the QB and pitch. Vernon shifted their down linemen and brought up a LB who took QB on the option. Seemed like that worked pretty good. Of course Graham's line does a great job f opening up seems for those small backs to get through. #12 is very fast. I think he is the fastest back I have seen all year.

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
One thing I noticed is that the LB's will have to be very fast to the ball as the Graham backs hit the holes very quick. Also, Vernon was out of position several times and Graham busted 10 or more yards when they happened.

If you play more of a 5 2 it seems like it works better controlling the QB and pitch. Vernon shifted their down linemen and brought up a LB who took QB on the option. Seemed like that worked pretty good. Of course Graham's line does a great job f opening up seems for those small backs to get through. #12 is very fast. I think he is the fastest back I have seen all year.

There's no question they are good at what they do. Their playbook is probably only two pages thick. They don't do much, but what they do they with repetition and do it well.

[sic'em]

what kind of offenses do vernon and iowa park run?

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by sic'em
what kind of offenses do vernon and iowa park run?

Vernon runs a traditional wing-t offense. Big strong full back and quick TB. They throw the ball some, but they are a power running team first and foremost.

IP has a really diverse offense. Their base offense is a wing-t, also. They run a lot of double TE's and do lots of misdirection. But they also run the spread and do it quite well. They have a good dual threat QB and they have about 4 RB's that are all solid, no superstar but solid. They are difficult to prepare for because it's almost like you have to gameplan two seperate teams.

[sic'em]

thanks for the insight, i am originally from pilot point and live in forney now. this region 1 stuff is new ground for me. i know all about the east texas schools and the west texas 2a's but nothing about yall. it seems so strange to be talking about west texas 3a schools and driving so far for playoff games.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

IP will also run out of the single wing. With their QB's running ability this is very difficult to defend also. Hard to tell who gets the ball. The QB and the HB are next to each other squating down and the center hikes it to one of them and then they take off. Sometimes the same direction and sometimes not and you don't know who has teh ball and by the time the defense figures it out these guys have picked up 5 to 10 yards.

IP used this against Kennedale very sucessfully last year. The Wildcats probably didn't game plan for it.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

I would like to know more about Pilot Point. Sic'em can you tell me about them?

If IP beats Graham by 6 or 8 I can't recall, then Pilot Point will get Vernon assuming that Vernon wins.

Vernon has a lot of speed and will give the ball to the HB, WB and Fb all about the same. Plus the QB will keep it 3 or 4 times also. Vernon will hit you inside about 5 times and then bust one outside. They have a lot of speed so it is hard to defend. The FB is about 215 pounds and runs a true 4.6 - 40 so he is fast for a big fellow. They also use roll out passes very effectively but have no long ball threat as the QB is short and doesn't have the arm for it. One more thing about the QB, I think he is the toughest QB I have ever seen. Just a solid kid. He takes a lick and just jumps right back up and goes for more.

[shortbag33]

Injuries create adversity, Graham overcame last week and beat a good Vernon team. Grant you they beat them on the scoreboard alone, but coaches are not judged on the stats they are judged on the wins. They have continued to find a way to win 27 in a row. Friday it will be 28.

Graham 24
IP 17

[Macarthur]

Originally posted by Z motion 10 out on 2
IP will also run out of the single wing. With their QB's running ability this is very difficult to defend also. Hard to tell who gets the ball. The QB and the HB are next to each other squating down and the center hikes it to one of them and then they take off. Sometimes the same direction and sometimes not and you don't know who has teh ball and by the time the defense figures it out these guys have picked up 5 to 10 yards.

IP used this against Kennedale very sucessfully last year. The Wildcats probably didn't game plan for it.

Z, you're right. I forgot completely about IP running the single wing. They don't do it very often and quite frankly used it much more last year than this year, but if run well, that single-wing is very difficult to defend, especially because the QB can throw equally as well as he runs.

[sic'em]

first of all, i won't be surprised if sanger beats pp this week. pp matched up well against bowie. they dont against sanger. i am leary to give to much info b/c of the possible matchup and pp does have weaknesses. but here's a quick overview.

if you have seen celina since 1996, you know their base stuff. g.a. will run every formation ever created all in the same game. he will see how you respond to each, then decide which gives him the best matchup according to how your d.c. decides to respond. against celina it was unbalanced line with a "set backfield" and all of the premutations off of that b/c they were small and we have a pretty sizable but young line. against gainesville there was a lot more one back shotgun with roll outs to neutralize their speed. defensively pp is a quandry. he has tinkered around all year with the defense and i honestly dont know what to expect this week or possibly next and it is week 10! each week he says the d played great and the 20 points they gave up were his fault for playing around with things. there is a reason for this though, some pp people may argue, but i believe this whole year has been about the next two years. they are very young and have the opportunity to be great next year. they play 3 diff people at qb and several at rb. i believe 4 out of 5 linemen come back next year. g.a. has run a lot less trick stuff this year and has put the emphasis on sacrificing for experimentation sake more than i have seen him do in the 20 years i have been old enough to understand and watch him. they are somewhat of an unknown and especially to west texas, and i get the feeling that is how he wants it, and i am not talking about just this team, i mean for the next 4+ years b/c it looks like we are in 3a region 1 to stay, with the changes in texas demographically. plus, he wil have been around long enough to have players under his program since 7th grade, which is huge. ask anyone from pp or celina and they will tell you a main reason he wins is b/c of the emphasis on football placed in jr. high. those teams are always undefeated.
as for this team, the star is jarrail johnson he will play hb, qb, sb, x, y, z, whatever. he is big and is a breakaway speed guy (even against gainesville.) this is the best team g.a. has had since he's been back and can score from anywhere on the field. even though there is a lot of uncertainty, one thing is for sure, they will be prepared and ready for you. he isnt texas winningest coach for nothing. check out www.pilotpointfootball.org i dont know how much this tells you, anything i missed you were wondering about?

[HighSchool Fan]

Don't confuse break away speed with just average speed. He didn't have break away speed against Gainesville. They caught Gaineville in a bad formation 1 time. Other than that, he did nothing.

I also liked his break away speed when he was trying to catch Jerome Hewitt from behind. His break away speed kept losing ground while trying to catch him.

[sic'em]

i would never say that johnson is as fast as hewitt, no matter how black and orange-tinted my glasses are. but he has had 9 td's that have come from at least 43 yards out. even if you are playin podunk high every week, you have to have more than average speed to do that. believe me, i am no "g.a. is god" type. i didnt play for him and no longer live there. but you have to give the johnson kid credit, he is an above average 3a football player, which is not bad for this being only his 2nd year to ever play the game. which shows where the program had gone, and the trouble with trying to get it back where it should be.

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Great assessment thanks!

[Hagamanp]

I am picking Graham to win 1st and Iowa Park to finish 2nd with Vernon 3rd

[Z motion 10 out on 2]

Originally posted by Hagamanp
I am picking Graham to win 1st and Iowa Park to finish 2nd with Vernon 3rd

If you pick Graham to win it all then Vernon has to be second and IP third.