UIL Screwup @ 3A Area B Marching contest

[Adidas410s]

The following is a letter that I sent to the UIL regarding the events of the Area B AAA contest held @ Birdville. I thought I would post it over here to see what y'all thought. For the record, I did not have a "bias" towards anybody not advancing and felt that from what I saw the judges did a good job. I have a younger brother in band @ Graham and was part of the program at Abilene Wylie a few years back. This is not me whining because Wylie finished alternate because I did not even stay to watch finals. This is my observation about another flaw in the UIL system.

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing regarding the outcome of this contest. It is truly an injustice that FW Castleberry and Kennedale HS were allowed to compete after failing to qualify for the area contest. Having a rule that requires each region to send their top 2 bands is a bad rule and there is no logical reasoning for having it. With as easy as the judging was at various region events this year, if these bands could not earn their way to the Area contest there there is no reason at all that they should be given a free pass to the contest. The purpose of these contests is to determine who is deserving of moving to the area level. Based on the scoring of these judges, it is quite evident that no 3A bands in Region 5 were of "area level quality." This is of further injustice to bands such as Abilene Wylie, Iowa Park, Sanger, Royce City, and Ranchview (not to mention the other bands that EARNED their way to Area) to have to compete for a spot at state against a band (Castleberry) who did not even deserve to be at the area competition. Furthermore, something is TERRIBLY flawed in our judging process if a band who was judged "uncertifiable" for Area can qualify for the state contest. I hope that this rule will be changed and this not happen again in the future. After all of the travesties that have occured in the State Marching Contests in recent history, I would hope that something as ridiculous as this would not be allowed to occur but evidently that is not the case. Please review your flawed judging and rules policies so that this does not happen again in the future.

[dogdad]

can you post the results?

[Adidas410s]

1. Canton
2. Wills Point
3. Whitesboro
4. FW Castleberry
5. Princeton
Alternate - Abilene Wylie

the other finalists were Iowa Park, Sanger, Royce City, and Carrollton Ranchview (the new 3A). I do not know what order that they finished in.

[CHSBaseball07]

i like the letter u wrote.....it should change some minds...or atleast have some concerns pointed towards it

[LH Panther Mom]

Great letter! Hopefully it will help get the rules changed.

[BJG40]

I dont think those judges ever get a break. 2 years ago we ( Castleberry) didnt advance when we should have. but something to think about is what makes bands advance. Not always do bands advance on sure crowd pleasing ability. I agree that our music is kinda out there but its different and complex. No offense, but its not pirates of the carribean as many bands did this year but what makes you advance is all the technical stuff. How well does each individual marcher march and complexity of show. If you're saying we didnt deserve to be there because of our 2 rating at uil then there were complains about our 2 that shouldve been a one as well (we were the only band to receive a 1 rating from any judge). haha see judges never get a break. I know we dont have the size or the best sound as canton or wills point but we do a lot of little things well. Im not sayin this just because we made it but i thought the ratings were pretty much on the nose. Good luck to all of yall.

[LoveandBball]

its band..

as with all

you win and you lose.. you lost.. get over it. if you were so good the glitches wouldnt have mattered

you got beat

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by BJG40
I dont think those judges ever get a break. 2 years ago we ( Castleberry) didnt advance when we should have. but something to think about is what makes bands advance. Not always do bands advance on sure crowd pleasing ability. I agree that our music is kinda out there but its different and complex. No offense, but its not pirates of the carribean as many bands did this year but what makes you advance is all the technical stuff. How well does each individual marcher march and complexity of show. If you're saying we didnt deserve to be there because of our 2 rating at uil then there were complains about our 2 that shouldve been a one as well (we were the only band to receive a 1 rating from any judge). haha see judges never get a break. I know we dont have the size or the best sound as canton or wills point but we do a lot of little things well. Im not sayin this just because we made it but i thought the ratings were pretty much on the nose. Good luck to all of yall.

I am not stating that any band who advance did NOT deserve to go to state. Heck my senior ('01) @ Wylie we did Jesus Christ Superstar...based off the '99 Scouts show for those who know DCI...and it was a VERY exciting show...but depending on the style that the judges prefer it may/may not help. In our case we were ranked 1,8, 8 by the music judges. The one who put us first said on his sheets and tape "excellent show, this is what marching band should be, a great re-make of the Scouts show (it better be since we bought the percussion music straight from them!)" while the 2 that put us 8th said NOTHING on their tapes and simply wrote "good performance" on their sheets. Odd yes but it happens. The style of show plays a BIG part in how a judge scores you because while your band may execute a Tchaicovsky (I'm sure I misspelled that name) perfectly, the judge may find the show utterly boring and thus rank you lower. Personally, I did not find Wylie's Pirates show (the only privately arranged version out of the bands playing it) to be that exciting. This is not because of the playing because if you put the band in an arc and let them play it then it is WOW! The show lost its impact because of bad drill writing that often times had them VERY spread out...but this is not a band forum so I will avoid the details and my opinions about the Caprock Drill writers.

To clarify my position, I am NOT in ANY way trying to take away from the performance of Castleberry or any other band. I only saw Wylie, Wills Point, Graham, and Pilot Point in prelims so it is not fair for me to try and critique what I did not see. I am simply pointing out that BOTH the judging system as well as the rules system is VERY flawed and changes need to be implemented to ensure that things like this do not happen again. There have been numerous screw up's in the past 5 years by the UIL in music contests because of either a) stupid rules such as this, b) bad judging, and c) the contest officials not knowing and/or properly enforcing the rules.

[CHS_DT#75]

the rule is that the bands who make a 1 advance... if no band makes a 1.. then the top 2 of the region go on.... why would you change this... if we were not there... there would have been 23 bands total.. at area they take 1 band for every 5 that make it... so they would have only took 4 bands... sorry bro abilene wylie still would not have made it.... try again next in 2 years...

[pancho villa]

You gatta be kidding me! WHO CARES!

[LoveandBball]

foreal man, ITS BAND

[Adidas410s]

Originally posted by CHS_DT#75
the rule is that the bands who make a 1 advance... if no band makes a 1.. then the top 2 of the region go on.... why would you change this... if we were not there... there would have been 23 bands total.. at area they take 1 band for every 5 that make it... so they would have only took 4 bands... sorry bro abilene wylie still would not have made it.... try again next in 2 years...

I'm not griping about Wylie not making it because I was indifferent if they did or not. I am saying that that if a band cannot EARN a 1 at Region then they should not be allowed to advance to area just so that the region has a representative. That is not fair to the other bands that EARNED their 1 and qualified for area without the help of a UIL ruling that makes an exception for bands who cant make it on their own. I am perfectly ok with only 4 bands making it because at least those 4 bands earned their way to area by making a 1 at region and did not have to make it by way of a loophole in the system.

[pancho villa]

WHO CARES!!! this is enough already.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by pancho villa
You gatta be kidding me! WHO CARES! If you don't care, then don't read this thread. It's that simple.

[JustAFan]

From your own statements, judges are very subjective in their rating of the bands. It is interesting that Kennedale and Castleberry were ranked above amny bands that must have received 1's at their regional competition.

Maybe the problem is not the rules of advancing, but the rules of scoring. How can a band with a 2 at regional competition be one of the top 5 in the area and the other 2 be #11? Maybe everybody else just had easy judges?

That being said, I did stay and watch Wylie and Wills Point and will say they both had great performances. so, like I said, maybe the judging system is screwed up, not the rules.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by JustAFan
Maybe the problem is not the rules of advancing, but the rules of scoring. How can a band with a 2 at regional competition be one of the top 5 in the area and the other 2 be #11? Maybe everybody else just had easy judges?
A lot can happen in a week. I've seen it done. A band has a terrible performance at regionals comes back the next week and plays "lights out" and makes it to state. It can happen.

On the other hand, I don't like the fact that corp bands are competing with military bands. Military bands already have their own competition. It's called NAMMB (National Association of Military Marching Bands). Comparing military bands to corp bands is like comparing apples and oranges. It all depends on your preferences.

[JasperDog94]

Why are you trying to start something?

[pancho villa]

cause this is football

[CHS_Grad '85]

and this thread clearly states it's about band... just don't click on it if you don't want to read about it...:rolleyes:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by CHS_Grad '85
and this thread clearly states it's about band... just don't click on it if you don't want to read about it...:rolleyes: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[GreenMonster]

Anytime that the scoring is subjective in any event, the proper order will be screwed up. Beauty pageants, gymnastics, ice skating etc have all had scandals in the recent past. Why? Because the judging is subjective. If you can figure a scoring system that takes judges out of the picture then go for it. Otherwise, I'm afraid you're spinning your wheels.

[jason]

no comment

[JasperDog94]

Then why post?

[jason]

because i made a point...some will get it, some wont...

[JasperDog94]

I think a lot of people don't get your "point".;)

[jason]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I think a lot of people don't get your "point".;) hehe, ill rephrase my previous comment....

i made a point...those in the loop will get it, everybody else wont.....

:tongue: :tongue: :D:wave: :wave:

[JasperDog94]

I guess I'm not with the "in" crowd. Oh well. It's just like high school all over again.:( :nerd: :nerd:

[jason]

lol...send a dollar to everybody who is, and ur in....:D :D :D

[CHS_DT#75]

i think some people are just out go get the castleberry band... last year in UiL competition for symphonic band... made a 2,2,1 on stage... first time in liek 50 years.... then we went on to make 5th in state in the honor band competition... hmmm coincidence... maybe but most likely not....

[GreenMonster]

no one is out to get your band Josh C. out to get the system yes, your band no. Congratulations on moving on by the way.:clap: your band probably deserved better at the first competition.

[CHS_DT#75]

i meant up there... some judges... but thanks anywayz... i saw the iowa park band perform as well and yall also were very good! good luck in upcoming years..