My thoughts on Jasper/Kirbyville

[JasperDog94]

Wow. I really didn't see this coming. Here are my thoughts on the game.

1. Kirbyville was fired up from moment one. They brought their fans and never stopped screaming and cheering for their boys.

2. Kirbyville didn't show up to the game until 5-6 minutes before it started. I'm curious about this. Can any K-ville poster explain what happened?

3. We finally met a team that exploited our weaknesses....such as ball controll. Jasper hand too many turnovers once again. Kirbyville took advantage of them.

4. Special teams: This was the biggest difference in the game. Every time Jasper would close the gap, Kirbyville would have a huge runback...and even a touchdown to boot.

5. Kirbyville was definitely the more aggressive team. There were some hard hits on both sides, but Kirbyville just seemed to want it more.

6. Penalties - Pretty even on the calls. There were only two calls that I really disagreed with. One was an interception by Jasper. The ball was underthrown and 1 KV player and 2 Jasper players were all going after the ball. There was some bumping to get to the ball. They called pass interference on one of the Jasper players. The other call was a "no call" on one of the Jasper players that was held on one of the huge kickoff returns of Kirbyville. The Jasper player tried to turn sideways to make the tackle and I saw about 6 inches of his jersey being pulled away from him. He barely missed the tackle. While I don't think that those calls cost Jasper the game, they sure were momentum breakers.

7. And now....the rest of the story. I hate to even say anything about this, but it just really ticks me off. Pop quiz:

Your team has the ball on the opponents 30 yardline (approx). You have a 15 point lead with 4:30 left on the clock. Do you (a) run the ball to the left, (b) run the ball to the right, or (c) run the ball up the middle...

Answer (d) You throw the ball into the endzone to run up the score!:mad: :mad: :mad:

Now before this game, I had tremendous respect for Coach Alvarez. Not anymore. He had his starters still in the game (understandable) and had Jasper beat. Why throw the ball into the endzone and score again? In his own words, "I remember last year. It's payback time." So Jasper scoring in the fourth quarter with 2nd string in the game while running the ball is running up the score coach? Give me a break. That was one of the most classless acts I have ever seen a coach do. Way to set an example for our youth. Completely and totally CLASSLESS!!!:mad: :mad:

8. Lastly, I need some info from some other posters. Is it normal for a coach to yell at opposing players when they tackle one of your players and yell things like, "Get off him! Get off him! You ain't got nothin'! Who are you? Who are you? You ain't got nothin'"? I've never seen a coach act like that before and didn't know if that was more common than I'd like to beleive.

***To the Kirbyville kids. Way to play. You earned that victory and should enjoy it. Be proud of your accomplishments and hold your heads high. Good luck the rest of the way.

[LH Panther Mom]

JD94, I realize I've never seen either team play, and don't know the district & teams' history. I do feel somewhat qualified to answer 7, just based on the specifics given. But feel free to tell me if I'm way off base. 15 points is not really a comfortable lead, with 4:30 left in the game. Anything can happen with that much time left on the board. It had to definitely be a tough, disappointing loss for Jasper. (JMO)

[Jason1725]

While I was leaving the field two of Kirbyville's players #52 & 55 decided it would be cute to run and do a penguin slide on the Bulldog at mid field. Now I understand being happy you just beat Jasper but had any of our kids did that at Kirbyville at any time we would be talked about forever.

[LST_Terry]

4:30 on clock and up just 2 scores...sorry you go for the throat and win.

Case in point last year Crandall up over Canton 13-0 late in game and they run 4 times and then try a FG and miss...Canton comes back to win 14-13.

You have to finish off a team, especially one like the bulldogs who have the talent to do anything

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Jason1725
While I was leaving the field two of Kirbyville's players #52 & 55 decided it would be cute to run and do a penguin slide on the Bulldog at mid field. Now I understand being happy you just beat Jasper but had any of our kids did that at Kirbyville at any time we would be talked about forever.

That was a little tacky, I think. As far as #8, no it is not normal. (Or shouldn't be considered to be normal.)

[JasperDog94]

The thing is Kirbyville had been running the ball on us all night. All they had to do was keep handing the ball off and they probably would have run out the clock. Another problem is Jack's motivation for throwing the ball. Revenge can be a very dangerous mistress.

[j_dog]

I wasn't there, but congratulations to Kirbyville. Now is time for Jasper to look forward, not backwards. If Jasper cannot find 2 victories in the next 3 games, there probably won't be any playoffs for Jasper. To me that is the real issue and it would seem to me they will have to play much better to pick up those two victories. They should have an easy time with Coldspring, but wins over Shepherd and Silsbee are by no means assured. Go Dogs! Get your act together! :clap:

[GreenMonster]

If that coach talked to the Jasper kids like that then he probably talks to his own kids like that. I had the misfortune to play for a tyrant like that in high school. He was verbally abusive as well as physically abusive. He stripped us of all of our dignity and self confidence in an effort to make " Robots" out of us. Needless to say he was fired after 2 seasons at the helm. I certainly hope for those kids' sake that this coach isn't as extreme as the one I played for. I would also like to agree with you that the coach showed a total lack of class and that yes it does rub off on the kids. My senior year we had a new staff led by Weldon Nelms (currently at Wimberly). After our 2nd game together the man walked out of film on us and said, "This is the biggest bunch of cheapshot artists I've ever been around and I can't stand to watch anymore of this." That was the beginning of him turning the program around. We didn't realize that we were cheapshot artists. We were only doing what we had been taught. That day was lesson 1 in teaching a new philosophy and I respect that man and everything he stands for because of the way he led us in the right direction. Coaches are the biggest influence in a young man's life. They should respect that and always do the right thing.

[Old No. 7]

JD94,
2. the Cats warmed up in Kirbyville. Part of the strategy(sp). Last year a few kids stood and watched everything they did before the game started.

8. No comment, I didn't here it.


Maybe if we were invited to the tail gate party? :D just kidding. I hope #3 is ok. His ankle looked bad from the stands. Good luck to the Dogs on the rest of yalls games!

[HighSchool Fan]

How come when a good team loses by 20 or so points the other team is accused of running up the score, but when a good team beats a bad team by 60 or 70 nothing is ever said about running up the score?

[Underwater Basketweaver]

That is probably because the good team that scores 60 or 70 isn't trying to score late in the game. Case in point. Decatur scored 77 on Ranchview friday night, but did not score at all in the fourth quarter. In fact we only scored 14 in the second half. Yes, it was 63-0 in the first half. Now, I am not saying that Kirbyville ran the score up either. 14 points is just not considered a safe lead when there is more than 4 minutes left in a game, especially against a good team like Jasper. Maybe his motivation was ill concieved, but he still had every right to throw the ball at that point. IMHO

[LH Panther Mom]

I think it depends on the teams playing & who's on the boards. Plenty was said about our 75-0 score.

[Ranger Mom]

I'm sorry, but I don't feel if you are up 14 points with that much time left, you are running up the score if you try and score again.

[Jason1725]

I really didn't feel that the last TD was running up the score either I think that was smart because Jasper could have still scored and maybe even made it close. Besides from the game I had fun just seeing people I have not seen in a while. The game even brought out Ernie Holmes it was good to see him, I talked to Marlin Cook sometime during the game and Sir Vincent Rogers as well. I Talked to some kids I knew but have not seen in a long time that I found out had moved away. It was a good time even though Jasper lost, I always like homecoming because you see people you have not in a long time. I think thats why I like covering the games so much because you get to know the kids playing and other people like the cheerleaders and trainers and yearbook kids. It's fun to do.

[southern_thunder]

Originally posted by Jason1725
While I was leaving the field two of Kirbyville's players #52 & 55 decided it would be cute to run and do a penguin slide on the Bulldog at mid field. Now I understand being happy you just beat Jasper but had any of our kids did that at Kirbyville at any time we would be talked about forever.

# 52 is alverez's son so that shows you what kind of behavior is being condoned in kville.

[duckbutter]

I said back in July that Kirbyville could be the spoiler for the district and it looks like my prediction may come true. Look for Kirbyville to be hell on wheels now that they know they can win the big games. What's going to be interesting is if Jasper and Kirbyville make it far enough in the playoffs to play again. That would be one heck of a game.

[x-pro]

They are kids. Kids act on impulse. They just knocked off the #3 team in the state at their homecoming. They just beat their biggest competition for a district title. Kids sometimes do disrespectful and classless things. Just because it happened, doesn't mean it was condoned. How do you know these kids weren't diciplined?

[duckbutter]

Originally posted by southern_thunder
# 52 is alverez's son so that shows you what kind of behavior is being condoned in kville. :rolleyes: Get a grip...it's over so move on.

[sphinx-1906]

Hey here is an idea. why don't the folks that don't like the fact that they lost have a heaping helping of shut the hell up!.Ya want points to ponder. Here are a couple.;

1. Jasperdog94 what an idiot you are. Kirbyville could have scored again and if you were at the game you would know this.

2. The kids from Kirbyville played with emotion and heart. They were hands down the better team that night.

3. I will not give a # but there were some pretty graphic and obscene things said to the kirbyville players and coaches during the game by some Jasper players. SO WHAT!!! it's football. If your not mean and aggressive you probably arn't any good.

4. I don't know why you are trying to paint a bad picture of Coach Alvarez. He has turned that program around and has done it with nothing but class. The stuff you are saying is untrue and totally off the wall. Coach Alvarez is as stand up a guy as you will meet.

5. The game is over and that is that. Kirbyville will be in the playoffs and so will Jasper. It will be up to silsbee and shepherd to battle it out for 3rd. Jasper is still a very good football team but you downlowers just have to suck it up, eat some crow, and deal with it. It happens to everyone and there is no reason to make up crap to try to make youself feel better. Be happy that Kirbyville didn't score again and get ready to cheer for your beloved dawgs again friday.

P.S. To all the Jasper fans who have not talked trash, made excuses, and belittled the opposing coaching staff please disreguard this post. For all of those who have I hope you choke on this.

[southern_thunder]

Originally posted by duckbutter
:rolleyes: Get a grip...it's over so move on.

Get a grip on what?? They kicked our butts no excuses.. but that doesnt mean they should act classless they should lact like they had wopn before.

xpro it wasnt an impulse thing it was planned because they also had a big rawhide dog bone they threw out on the field.

[cowboydogg99]

It looked like number 72 from kirbyville was injured friday night, is he going to be alright?

[southern_thunder]

They better hope so he was a player!!

[vet93]

JD94...I think that you are letting your homerism get the best of you. With 4:30 left and only up by two scores.....that is not a safe lead with a team that is as talented as Jasper. Jasper has always had some speed and I would assume that they are no different this year. Knowing how talented they are I would have done the same thing that the Kirbyville coach did. Now.....I agree with you about yelling stuff at the opposing players...uncalled for.


Originally posted by JasperDog94
The thing is Kirbyville had been running the ball on us all night. All they had to do was keep handing the ball off and they probably would have run out the clock. Another problem is Jack's motivation for throwing the ball. Revenge can be a very dangerous mistress.

[futr_dawgmom]

I heard that the Kirbyville team knew all of Jasper's plays due to a mistake made by someone on the Jasper side. ( That's why they arrived late b/c they were practicing whooping up on Jasper!!) I am glad that Kirbyville won, but I am also upset that Jasper lost some of there best players and lost Homecoming.:(

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by sphinx-1906
Hey here is an idea. why don't the folks that don't like the fact that they lost have a heaping helping of shut the hell up!.Ya want points to ponder. Here are a couple.;

1. Jasperdog94 what an idiot you are. Kirbyville could have scored again and if you were at the game you would know this.

2. The kids from Kirbyville played with emotion and heart. They were hands down the better team that night.

3. I will not give a # but there were some pretty graphic and obscene things said to the kirbyville players and coaches during the game by some Jasper players. SO WHAT!!! it's football. If your not mean and aggressive you probably arn't any good.

4. I don't know why you are trying to paint a bad picture of Coach Alvarez. He has turned that program around and has done it with nothing but class. The stuff you are saying is untrue and totally off the wall. Coach Alvarez is as stand up a guy as you will meet.

5. The game is over and that is that. Kirbyville will be in the playoffs and so will Jasper. It will be up to silsbee and shepherd to battle it out for 3rd. Jasper is still a very good football team but you downlowers just have to suck it up, eat some crow, and deal with it. It happens to everyone and there is no reason to make up crap to try to make youself feel better. Be happy that Kirbyville didn't score again and get ready to cheer for your beloved dawgs again friday.

P.S. To all the Jasper fans who have not talked trash, made excuses, and belittled the opposing coaching staff please disreguard this post. For all of those who have I hope you choke on this.

Wow. I didn't know we were resorting to name calling sphinx.

1. This is the 2nd time you've done this to me and I don't appreciate it. If you've got a beef with me, fine. Let's take it to the PM's. If not, I'd appreciate a little respect.

2. No arguement here.

3. There's a huge difference between being aggressive and being obscene.

4. I couldn't have agreed more before Friday night. I know what was said and I saw what was done. I stand by my story. I just think that if you've got the game under control and are moving the ball on the ground (which K-ville did all night) then continue running the ball instead of running up the score. I know that some of you don't agree with me on this, but that's okay.

5. I'm here to eat my crow. I don't like th taste of it, but I'm here anyway.

On a personal note, you need to grow up. I've never said that Kirbyville didn't deserve to win the game. Go back and reread my posts. Please make sure that you reply with some facts. BTW - "You're and idiot" is not a fact.

[sphinx-1906]

Very simply put as always. So now you have no respect for Coach Alvarez and Coach Walkoviac, and you are wanting ME to give YOU respect? That is a good one. I really don't give a crap if you don't appreciate me calling you out. Yes there is a difference between aggressive and obcene. Aggressive is how the game is played when you play with heart. Obcene is how you can't accept a little defeat with class. you have to resort to " I don't respect this person,and I can't believe these kids act this way". You need to grow up. Personally I would like to commend you on being the only griper and complainer from Jasper on the board. Oh yeah heres you a little fact since you wanted some.............42-20.

[spiveyrat]

Sphinx, where are you from?

[JasperDog94]

(sigh) I must correct you again. I do respect Walkoviac for the way he consistantly won. I don't repect the way he let certain "star players" act without any dicipline.

Now, if you heard a coach say he was running the score up on purpose, you would have no problems with that? That to me shows a lack of character. Like I said, coming into this game, I really respected Coach Alvarez. And until late in the 4th quarter I had even more respect for him. Those type comments tend to leave a bad taste in your mouth.

And lastly....Jasper lost...not good enough for you...okay...Jasper lost ...still not good enough for you....Jasper lost.

Make no mistake about it. Kirbyville was the better team Friday night. I challenge you to find where I said otherwise. Or find where I said Jasper should have won the game.YOU CAN'T!!! Because I never said it.

BTW - I'm not the one calling out the kids for their behavior after the game, because I didn't see it. Get your facts straight before you run your mouth next time.

[sphinx-1906]

what are you talking about? I never said you thought Jasper should have won the game. Yes you did say you lost respect for BOTH coaches. Yes you did ask for a little respect ( which I give you none). I never said anything about kids behavior after the game. Also (if you were there for the entire game)you know that Coach Alvarez didn't run up the score because they had a chance to put up more points at the end of the game and didn't. So now please drop it. I hope Jasper wins state in the big school catagory, Kirbyville wins state in the small school catagory, and Newton wins state in AA. That to me would be a perfect ending to the football season.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by sphinx-1906
I never said anything about kids behavior after the game.


Originally posted by sphinx-1906
you have to resort to " I don't respect this person,and I can't believe these kids act this way". :doh: :doh: :doh:

[Junkyard]

Jasper will not go big school why do people still keep thinking they will. Silsbee will make the playoffs and go big school!!!

[sphinx-1906]

Lost respect for Coach Alvarez, Isn't that what you said? why do you think the world is against you?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by sphinx-1906
...Also (if you were there for the entire game)you know that Coach Alvarez didn't run up the score... Yes I was at the game...the whole time. I don't know why you keep asking me this.

Let me ask you a question. If a coach says "I remember last year. It's payback tme." you don't think that he's trying to run up the score?

[sphinx-1906]

Sorry junkyard. I don't know the enrollments. Good luck.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by sphinx-1906
why do you think the world is against you? :confused: :confused:

[sphinx-1906]

No that doesn't mean he is trying to run up the score. It means that you are going to play your butt off because you lost to them the last time you met. It is the same thing that jasper will want the next time these two meet. It was a good game and that is that. Why wouldn't you want revenge on a team that beat you the previous year?

[LWFH]

Gotta agree with sphinx on this one point. Remembering a previous defeat and using that as fuel to motivate your players to play better is not inapprpriate or classless. Where do rivalries come from in the first place?

And another thing, If I was up by two scores on Jasper, in Jasper, with more than 4 minutes left, I would score any way I could. Running it up? No, just closing it out. Who cares if the run is working? Just because you have a lead does not mean you should get more conservative in your play calling, just ask the Seattle Seahawks what happened against the Rams.

Just my 2 cents

[sphinx-1906]

Good point LWFH

[repeat2002]

One thing you might consider when talking about running up scores is the tiebreaker rule in the district. Most districts have a point maximum of anywhere form 13 to 16 points in case of ties. Therefore i don't think you could consider a 15 point lead a safe lead with that much time. It is probably , in most cases, unlikely that a 15 point recovery is going to take place, but a turnover, a touchdown, and that lead is 7 or 8 and the point maximum is in jeopardy. I have seen that happen many times and it can cost you a play-off spot. So you better score enough for that not tot happen.

[Wildcat22]

Jasper Dog 94
Coach Alvarez did not run up the score running up the score would be someone scoring again with the score 60-0

[JasperDog94]

I'm basing "running up the score" more on his comments that the action on the field.

[southern_thunder]

Sphinx you will not believe this but I will have to agree with you on this one. I dont blame jack a bit for scoring as much as he could, and I dont think this was a case of running up the score.:(

[JasperDog94]

Well, it looks like I'm alone in this one. But that's okay. I know what was said and the attitude that it was said with. Best of luck to the Kirbyville players the rest of the year.

[shspiratefan]

...i dont know why they would try to run up the score with four minutes left and up by two touchdowns...

well the thing is there is a twenty-one point spread. If there is a three way tie for any place in the district if you beat a team by twenty-one points then you automatically have the upperhand. So that is why they tried to score. The same thing happened to Shpeherd against Silsbee in the first week of district competition. Silsbee was up 16-2 and tried to get it in from the thirty. However they failed. I beleive there is a complete list of the rule somewhere on the U.I.L. website. I hope i helped you understand the matter better.

[Comeaux]

Who would have ever thought that Kirbyville would ever be accused of running the score up on Jasper. Now to answer some of your questions and comments.

The Wildcats got to the game just before kick off because we didn't want to hear the WOFF WOFF of the bulldogs and if we had to hear "Who Let the Dogs out" one more time we would puke.

As far as running up the score - WHEN YOU play a team that is No. 3 in the state 15 points is not that much of a lead. That is a score and two pt conversion and a on side kick and score and another 2 pt conversion. All of a sudden the 15 pt lead turns into the wildcats being 1 point behind. We know because we did it to Corrigan.

Alvarez's class and character in question- he was taking up for one his players that was being held down and hit with a fist by a jasper player and the ref. would not call it. In fact Alvarez got a flag for trying to get the ref. to cal it or at least stop it. Take in consideration that we are in Jasper and you will not be suprised.

Yea the players did slide across the middle of the field - what did it hurt? Was it a matter of them not having to mark the fiel before the next home game - I don't think so.

I would like to know what high power players were not playing Friday night - give us names- the big guns were sure there-Adams, Patton. Gilder.

[JasperDog94]

I've made my point. Whether you chose to believe me or not is your choice. I know what was said and the way it was said. Coach Alvarez was trying to run up the score. Period. He admitted it. But like I said, you can chose to believe me or not.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by shspiratefan
I hope i helped you understand the matter better. I know the rule, and had that been the motivation behind scoring again, I would have no beef about this entire situation...other than the K-ville assistant coach yelling at our kids.

[Comeaux]

JasperDog94

When your signature says:
I call 'em like I see 'em. And if I don't see 'em, I make 'em up!

I thought it was just a cute saying but with you it is correct. Make up your mind, was the talking to the players done by Alvarez or the assistant coach - you are getting like Kerry and flip flopping.

[Bulldog_12]

Comeaux, the guys you mentioned, adams, patton, and gilder were there, but not for long.by the end of the first they were out, maybe the VERY beginning of the first. Two more I could add to the list that didnt play were Sean Weatherspoon and Ryan Malone. I know there were several others because e had nine starters out, I just cant remember who they were.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Comeaux
JasperDog94

When your signature says:
I call 'em like I see 'em. And if I don't see 'em, I make 'em up!

I thought it was just a cute saying but with you it is correct. Make up your mind, was the talking to the players done by Alvarez or the assistant coach - you are getting like Kerry and flip flopping. Is English not taught anymore? I don't know why I have to keep repeating myself, but just for you, here goes.

Here's #7 of my original post:


Originally posted by JasperDog94
7. ...Now before this game, I had tremendous respect for Coach Alvarez. Not anymore. He had his starters still in the game (understandable) and had Jasper beat. Why throw the ball into the endzone and score again? In his own words, "I remember last year. It's payback time." .
.

Here's #8 of my original post:


Originally posted by JasperDog94
8. Lastly, I need some info from some other posters. Is it normal for a coach to yell at opposing players when they tackle one of your players and yell things like, "Get off him! Get off him! You ain't got nothin'! Who are you? Who are you? You ain't got nothin'"? I've never seen a coach act like that before and didn't know if that was more common than I'd like to beleive.


These are two seperate observations. Nowhere in there did I say Alvarez said those things. It was an assistant coach. I hope that was simple enough for you to follow.

[wildkat0507]

Originally posted by cowboydogg99
It looked like number 72 from kirbyville was injured friday night, is he going to be alright?


He is out for the rest of the season.

[JasperDog94]

That's the worst part of the entire game from Friday night. Both teams suffered some bad injuries.:( :(