Concern for Bridge City

[TigerShark]

I would like to start a debate based on the events that happened in Bridge City. Kids in this town received MIP’s, some were suspended from Cheerleading and others were punished but allowed to stay on the football team.
I would like to play the devils advocate on this subject. Why is it the schools job to punish these kids when the act did not happen on the school watch? These kids were not supervised by school employees, nor were they representing the school at the time of the act. Why isn’t it the parent’s job to punish the kids? I have been around athletics all my life and I know from experience that kids tend to behave better around their coaches than they do around their own parents. And furthermore, kids behave better while own the schools watch than they do around the parents.
Why remove a kid from the only source of discipline that he/she may be receiving. Teachers, Coaches, and Administrators don’t get to go home with the kids and supervise them at home also. Why are school officials being examined for the way they deal with students? Why aren’t parents being examined for the way they are raising their kids?

[JasperDog94]

You've raised two separate issues:

1. Why should kids be punished for actions that are non school related?

2. Why aren't the parents the ones being questioned instead of the schools?



Answer #1: The students that participate in after school activities represent the schools in public. They should be held to a higher standard. It's called character. I believe that students should understand that their behavior in and out of school is important, not just the behavior during school hours or events.

Answer #2: I think parents should be responsible for their kids behavior...to a certain degree. The problem comes in when you try to make a "one size fits all" rule. Some parents condone their child drinking. Some parents are oblivious. How do you separate the two?

That's my .02 cents anyway.

[scrub c]

I must agree.

I have never understood why administrators are so quick to punish kids in EXTRA-curricular activities, for things that occur OUTSIDE of those extra-curricular activities. And in this case outside of school!

I dont ever hear of the "thugs" that dont participate in anything getting punished for their actions outside of school.

And while Im here, what about kids who get in-school-suspension for tardies and such.....if they are an athlete, they dont get to participate in games???? What is that all about?? If thats the case then the rednecks and skate or die kids dont get to go hang out and dip snuff or skateboard all over the place when they get in-school-suspended.

that has always bugged me.

[TigerShark]

So, my point is -- That parent that is okay with underage drinking and allows their kid to take part in the event, should you kick them off of the extracurricular activities. Like I said in the first post, this may be the only form of dicipline that this kid receives.

I am all for punishment but I am against removal.

[jason]

they (extra-curricular kids) should be punished the same way the rest of the students should be...they non-curricular kids arent kicked out of anything, they are given detentions or whatever type of punishment stuff the school has...they (extra-curr kids) should be given that same punishment but be allowed to stay on the team...IMO...

[shankbear]

I remember a local school svereal years ago that had a kid who was charged with aggrevated robbery. He was put on deferred adjudication probation for 7 years. He was 17 at the time, still in school. That kid was allowed to continue playing football and was very good. He was booed by another local school's fans and they screamed FELON!!!!!.. The BC kids screwed up. An MIP is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine up to $500.00. Their licenses can be suspended and they can be required to attend an MIP school...alcohol awareness. Let that process happen. If each extra curricular activity sponsor has its set of rules, then let those rules apply. Each activity's rules have to be approved from ABOVE!!!!!

[JasperDog94]

It all comes down to character. If you don't have the character to not use drugs or drink then you have no business representing your school.

[Hupernikomen]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
You've raised two separate issues:

1. Why should kids be punished for actions that are non school related?

2. Why aren't the parents the ones being questioned instead of the schools?



Answer #1: The students that participate in after school activities represent the schools in public. They should be held to a higher standard. It's called character. I believe that students should understand that their behavior in and out of school is important, not just the behavior during school hours or events.

Answer #2: I think parents should be responsible for their kids behavior...to a certain degree. The problem comes in when you try to make a "one size fits all" rule. Some parents condone their child drinking. Some parents are oblivious. How do you separate the two?

That's my .02 cents anyway.

You are exactly right. The kids do represent our school when they are on the athletic playing field and if their behavior off the field away from class is such that they should be kicked off the team then it should be done. Obviously each school board has to adopt its rules where the State hasn't already told them what must be done (as in the case of felonies).

[TigerShark]

I have always admired Jasper for their character.:)

[spiveyrat]

I'd like to play the devil's advocate one step further... Since the police department contacted the school about the kids' MIP, should they contact your employer if you screw up?

It's just a matter on how much you value your civil liberties. I value mine highly and I don't think it's any of the school's business, personally. I think it's a matter for the justice system and the parents to tend to. I'll admit, though, the boundaries can be blurry.

[Junkyard]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
It all comes down to character. If you don't have the character to not use drugs or drink then you have no business representing your school.

I dont see how they are representing there school if they are not at a school function and are not being supervised by school officials.

Using your logic if you are out drinking and get an DWI you are representing your place of work and should be suspended from your job.

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by Junkyard
I dont see how they are representing there school if they are not at a school function and are not being supervised by school officials.

Using your logic if you are out drinking and get an DWI you are representing your place of work and should be suspended from your job.
There are many occupations whereby getting a DWI or drug conviction will affect your job. (not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, just throwing my $.02 in)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Junkyard
I dont see how they are representing there school if they are not at a school function and are not being supervised by school officials.

Using your logic if you are out drinking and get an DWI you are representing your place of work and should be suspended from your job. They are representing their school when they are on the field, thus a part of their character. What they do outside of school is also a part of their character. The two go hand in hand. You can use the same arguement about Bill Clinton when he was in office. Did what he did (or have done to him) affect the country? Not directly. It comes down to an issue of character. If we teach our kids that what you do away from school, away from home, or away from your job won't have any affect on you, then we are sending the wrong message.

And to your response about work and drinking, some companies would fire you in a heartbeat if you got a DWI, but it depends on the company.

[raider red 2000]

what about the point that the kids in question use their body and minds when representing the school.....when an athlete is caught with drugs, alchohol, or cigaretts they most likely are harming their body. the same body that they are using to help the school. while the school cant and shouldnt control the participants, the school should expect more out of the athletes and cheerleaders. if a kid is hungover, he wont be as good as the kid that isnt.

should the school waste money on kids that are breaking the rules and breaking the law....even if the parents say it is ok?

just another point of view.

[Bulldog_12]

I agree with J-dog. If you are a coach, you want your team to represent the team in the best way possible. Even though you might not know it, you could be a role model for kids younger than you. Many kids look up to high school players, so if they see one out drinking and read about them in the police section of the paper, what is that going to do to them? If you play sports you should have character, breaking the law certainly does not show that. I think a suspension should be lined up. maybe not the whole season, but certainly the next few games.

[Old Green]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I'd like to play the devil's advocate one step further... Since the police department contacted the school about the kids' MIP, should they contact your employer if you screw up?

It's just a matter on how much you value your civil liberties. I value mine highly and I don't think it's any of the school's business, personally. I think it's a matter for the justice system and the parents to tend to. I'll admit, though, the boundaries can be blurry. Their are a lot of companies that have drug and alcohol policies. The company I work for has them in place and do random drug testing. Every year you sign a code of conduct. Being in the field I work in you will follow these guidelines.

[chaingang]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
It all comes down to character. If you don't have the character to not use drugs or drink then you have no business representing your school.


I am going to disagree with you for once here. I was, just like most people on here, one of those kids once. We all know how it is to be that young and have fun. I am not saying that drinking is good, but I did it and so did my friends. We were not dumb enough to drive, but we were young. There were times when we got caught by our coaches and believe me, I would have rather been kicked off then go through the punishment the coaches had for us. At the school i went to, the coaches were the only parents some of these kids have. In saying that, if they were kicked off the team for making a mistake(that is what it is) these kids would be in worse shape. I am for punishment, but not for no play. I am sorry if I have offended some, but that is my op.

[duckbutter]

Let's take it another step: What about a coach sitting in their backyard drinking a few cold ones. Is this a bad representation of their school or athletic dept? What about kids that get tickets for racing or speeding? Should they be punished the same as the kids that got the MIP, they are both class C misd. and are the same according to the law. I agree with Tigershark in that some of these kids only come to school AND pass so that they can play sports. If that is the only thing keeping them there why take it away. BTW Tigershark, I was down in your area last weekend dove hunting. Next time we are in Orange Grove I will holler at you and you can join in on the fun.

[chaingang]

Originally posted by duckbutter
Let's take it another step: What about a coach sitting in their backyard drinking a few cold ones. Is this a bad representation of their school or athletic dept? What about kids that get tickets for racing or speeding? Should they be punished the same as the kids that got the MIP, they are both class C misd. and are the same according to the law. I agree with Tigershark in that some of these kids only come to school AND pass so that they can play sports. If that is the only thing keeping them there why take it away. BTW Tigershark, I was down in your area last weekend dove hunting. Next time we are in Orange Grove I will holler at you and you can join in on the fun.


That is exactly what I am saying.:clap: Adding to that these people that are punishing(ie school admin) are hypocrites(sp?)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by duckbutter
What about a coach sitting in their backyard drinking a few cold ones. Is the coach under 21?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by chaingang
... if they were kicked off the team for making a mistake(that is what it is) these kids would be in worse shape. But that mistake is a choice. If you choose to drink then you choose to forfeit your right to play ball. IMO

[chaingang]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
But that mistake is a choice. If you choose to drink then you choose to forfeit your right to play ball. IMO

I dont think so, I think it should be punished but not that extensive. Somrtimes I dont like to talk about these subjects because I dont want to offend anyones beliefs or religion, so if I have by my opinion I am sorry. Do I drink? Yes am i over 21? Yes Do I do it and drive or drink to oblivion? Hell No!

[chaingang]

I would like to see what some of the players mothers have to say. Ranger Mom, what is your thought on this?

[LH Panther Mom]

I'll be more than happy to respond with a mom point of view, but must go to the youngest son's soccer practice first. I'll get back with you when I return.

[TigerShark]

BTW Tigershark, I was down in your area last weekend dove hunting. Next time we are in Orange Grove I will holler at you and you can join in on the fun.


Give me a call, I would love to go dove hunting. Bring the Wild Turkey. LOL

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by chaingang
I would like to see what some of the players mothers have to say. Ranger Mom, what is your thought on this?

Well...I am no longer a player's mom, but here goes.

I am probably not the best person to ask about this, I was married to an alcoholic for 10 years so I am probably kind of "phobic" about it.

I do not want the school punishing my kids for something they have done outside of school...but, if there is a code of conduct set up, and rules you must follow, then you run the risk of being punished.

Do I think they should be kicked off the team?? No!

If there is a punishment phase for an extra-curricular group you are with, do I think it should be followed (even if it happened outside of school)? Yes

These kids know all of this up front. I don't think one set of rules should be more lax (like football) than the others (like cheerleaders).

That is my take on it....fortunately, my kids (so far) cannot stand the taste of alcohol. I have a son in college now, and I kind of worried about the peer pressure of drinking. So far, he has gone to parties and been the self proclaimed designated driver - so he has gotten very well known!!:p

As you know, my daughter is a trainer (and the only still involved in the football program):( , she knows the rules and what will happen if she gets caught breaking them. If she gets into trouble, then she has to pay the consequences!

[shankbear]

Mom.. sounds like you raised your kids with good values and good judgment. That will serve them well. They probably understand the concept of personal responsibility also.

[exbccards76'smom]

Each "activity" at Bridge City High School has a handbook that is given to all participants. Each sponsor or "Director" makes the rules for it's group. These kids represent BCHS at events outside of school. The main thing is they are expected to do is to set a good example of BCHS. Every group has different punishments that are in the handbooks. MIP is a very serious offense. I hope those involved have learned a valuable lesson.

[LH Panther Mom]

Well, the other moms have spoken well. And took most of my points, also. :crying:

There's the facts as I understand them - 1) Cheerleaders signed a code of conduct, knowing ahead of time what the consequences were for breaking the rules; 2) there is no such code of conduct for football players. The cheerleaders, having signed this, should lose their spot on the squad. The players should be punished in whatever manner the coach sees fit.

Should the police have called the school? I can't answer that without knowing what school policy is on such things. Anyone involved in extracurricular activities is held to a higher standard than those kids that just go to school every day, not getting involved in anything. It may be a double standard, but that is the price that is paid to be involved.

If this were my child, I would fully support any punishment outside the home that was determined. When my oldest was a Sr. and one of the captains, I saw the form he had to sign. It was 100% clear on what rules were set & what the consequences were of breaking them.

[exbccards76'smom]

there is not a "code of ethics" for football, but the handbook tells them how they are expected to act.

[Panther Ross]

Originally posted by Bulldog_12
I agree with J-dog. If you are a coach, you want your team to represent the team in the best way possible. Even though you might not know it, you could be a role model for kids younger than you. Many kids look up to high school players, so if they see one out drinking and read about them in the police section of the paper, what is that going to do to them? If you play sports you should have character, breaking the law certainly does not show that. I think a suspension should be lined up. maybe not the whole season, but certainly the next few games.

I agree with you to a certain extent. Coaches or administrators should not do a thing to players or the cheerleaders. This is a parent to child type of situation. If the parents do not want to punish them, that is their mistake, but if they do more power to that, but all I am saying is that coaches or administrators don't have any say so of what these kids do off of school activities.

[LH Panther Mom]

I believe you, exbcmom. If BC's handbook is anything like ours, which they start sending home in kindergarten, it is very explicit...then there are the handbooks for extracurricular activities. The sad thing is that there is a different code for cheerleaders than players. I don't have any girls, but if I was a cheer mom, I would sure be up at the school the next morning.

[Ranger Mom]

I agree that the code of conduct should not differ between "groups". I don't know if the school board should set up a "campus wide" set of rules, or what!

While I said I don't want the school punishing MY child for something done off the campus, at the same time if my child is involved in an extra-curricular activity with a set rules, then they must follow those rules or pay the condequences.

[Lucky#3]

ok i dont want anyone to think less of me when i say this but i was a former high school athlete i quit playing sports due to a torn ACL, and a torn MCL and shoulder surgery my jr year which was last year but i recieved an MIP, MIC, and a contributing alchol to the delequiency of a minor when i hosted a party at my house when my parents were outta town. the cops busted it and i recieved those tickests. i got 6 months defered judification and paid a 500 fine and 12 hrs community service and had to go to a Alchol Awarance class. i also had to attend AA but the school was never called by the police but the coaches and faculty heard about it because i live in a small town. the coaches and faculty all looked down on me for a while but i never was punished inside or school for my actions they did not beleive i should recieve double punishment for somthing that happened outside of school. but i dont think these kids should get into trouble in school for there actions outside if that happened to me there is no tellin where i would be right now. the only reason i have ever liked going to school was because i loved to play sports and if the coaches would have kicked me off the team i would have been lost. but that is just my opinion.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Lucky#3
ok i dont want anyone to think less of me when i say this but i was a former high school athlete i quit playing sports due to a torn ACL, and a torn MCL and shoulder surgery my jr year which was last year but i recieved an MIP, MIC, and a contributing alchol to the delequiency of a minor when i hosted a party at my house when my parents were outta town. the cops busted it and i recieved those tickests. i got 6 months defered judification and paid a 500 fine and 12 hrs community service and had to go to a Alchol Awarance class. i also had to attend AA but the school was never called by the police but the coaches and faculty heard about it because i live in a small town. the coaches and faculty all looked down on me for a while but i never was punished inside or school for my actions they did not beleive i should recieve double punishment for somthing that happened outside of school. but i dont think these kids should get into trouble in school for there actions outside if that happened to me there is no tellin where i would be right now. the only reason i have ever liked going to school was because i loved to play sports and if the coaches would have kicked me off the team i would have been lost. but that is just my opinion.

So....if you had still been ON the team, would your coaches have punished you in any way?

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
So....if you had still been ON the team, would your coaches have punished you in any way?

Beat me again, RM. :)

[Lucky#3]

i was on the team when it happened and they didnt really punish me but i had what we call " Opportunity " which is a nice work out after practice which contains from hops , bear crawls, corners, and many miles i had to run.. but it was only for about 2 weeks the coaches didnt let me play for 1 game i had to sit there and watch my other team mates play it was so nerve wrecking because i wanted to get in there and play. and during baseball season i didnt play the first game and the coaches responed with, " we know you start and play every innning and every play of every game and just wanted to see how you would take it" so i was kinda punished but it wasnt a perminant thing

[La Grange]

In La Grange at the beggining of school all atheletes fill out a contract with the school just like they fill out all of the other rigorous paperwork. The contract clearly states all of the consiquences that come with getting in trouble with the authorities. For M.I.P.'s there are suspension and make-ups required, and for more serious crimes there are more serious consiquences.

If the students in Bridge City signed any paper to the degree of this one then the action taken by the school is just. I agree with the arguement that it is really not the schools place to step in. Answer this question...Would you like your starting quarterback going out on the weekends getting drunk and setting a bad example for kids that look up to the varsity player? Those kinds of actions set a bad example for players, and it just makes your whole team look bad.

[LH Panther Mom]

Just curious, as "opportunity" sounds like punishment to me. So, if you had not chosen this, what was the other option?

And, more importantly, did you learn anything from your experience?

[Lucky#3]

well "opportunity" was kinda like punishment but it was my "opportunity" to think about what i did....theother option was i guess quitting or not being able to play so i was gonna do whatever it took to play again.... oh yes i have learned my lesson... i go to a few parties every now and then and when i see the alchol come out i just tell my friends that i will see them later or tomorrow and if they need a ride at the end of the night because they have had to much to drink to give me a call and i will come pick them up and they can stay at my house "pends i have my own house now"

[Lucky#3]

..............................

[LH Panther Mom]

Good for you!

[Lucky#3]

as long as i can make things better for the Athletes and other students at my schoo better ill do it.... i just dont want to lose anyone in my class due to an alchol releated accident let alone any other type of accident

[Bandera YaYa]

I applaud your maturity and your insight. I wish more kids would feel the same. I wish you only the best, sounds like you are a determined young man. Peace!!
:)

[Lucky#3]

Bandera YaYa dosent Wimberley play Bandera in wimberley next week? if so i would like to meet you. you seem like a very delightfull woman

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Lucky#3
Bandera YaYa dosent Wimberley play Bandera in wimberley next week? if so i would like to meet you. you seem like a very delightfull woman

:eek: :eek: :D

[Lucky#3]

dont worry im not trying to hit on her i am only 18 i just would like to put a face to all of the out put i have been reading

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Lucky#3
dont worry im not trying to hit on her i am only 18 i just would like to put a face to all of the out put i have been reading

Nah, it wasn't that...you said YaYa sounded delightful! ROFL (No offense, YaYa.) I don't think I've ever seen anyone call her that. :D

[Lucky#3]

Well i dont wanna say anything bad on here i am looking to make friends not get Rommed liek alot of people have been doing on here... dont forget i am going to meet you to when LH comes down here to Wimberley

[LH Panther Mom]

Don't worry, I won't forget. And YaYa must be delightful - I've just never seen anyone refer to her that way. :D

[Lucky#3]

well if she ever responds to this and agree's to meet me next week i will tell you if shes as delightful in person as she seems to be on here lol im sure she is though... P.S> dose anyone know how long ago she graduated?

[slpybear the bullfan]

Well...

1.) Extra-curriculer activities are a privledge that is extended to students at a school... don't compare the rules imposed on atheletes to coaches, teachers or regular students. If you want to retain the privledge, follow the rules.

2.) Most schools do indeed have the student sign a contract. This makes it a very B&W issue...

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by Lucky#3
well if she ever responds to this and agree's to meet me next week i will tell you if shes as delightful in person as she seems to be on here lol im sure she is though... P.S> dose anyone know how long ago she graduated?

Not sure, but she has a kid or two in college!!

[Lucky#3]

oh ok i jsut didnt know if i was going to be meeting like some young girl or a well respected citizen.... i hope shes not surprised when she see's me

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Lucky#3
well respected citizen....

:eek: Again! Sorry, Lucky#8, I just couldn't resist. j/k

[Bandera YaYa]

WELL.......It would be a pleasure to meet such a nice young man......But, I'm just looking to meet a nice OLD man...!!! LOL !!! I can't meet you at that game, I have my 30 (yes, I said 30) high school reunion that weekend......darn! And thanks, LHMom.....always glad to hear you are watching out for me!!!! (hehe) :D :D

P.S. And, no, don't recall ever being called "delightful"......"bewitching", yes...... [COLOR=deeppink]...!! :eek: :kiss:

[Lucky#3]

lol well i guess your outta my league then :( but yea i would like to meet you so i guess we can talk more about this next week when it comes closer to the game. well i am sorry to hear that no one has called u delightful before

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by Lucky#3
well i am sorry to hear that no one has called u delightful before I think I'm very delightful.......hopefully, there is someone......ANYONE....out there that will concur with you![COLOR=deeppink]..Lord, knows..no one on here will see me for what I really am....... :D :D

[scrub c]

ttt

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
I think I'm very delightful.......hopefully, there is someone......ANYONE....out there that will concur with you![COLOR=deeppink]..Lord, knows..no one on here will see me for what I really am....... :D :D

Uhm, hmm. Actually, you are probably one of the most delightful (and bewitching) ladies on the board. :kiss:

[Bandera YaYa]

Aw, shucks.........I think I'm blushing.........a little.......maybe..... :evillaugh :evillaugh

[exbccards76'smom]

I learned today that the sponsor of the "strutters" dance team tells all girls at the beginning of the year that if they are caught in this situation, they are out. This is a award winning drill team, and they are that way because this lady is tough on them. She has to be to be able to take them places and stay in control. This group has danced in places like New York and Florida.