Why the AP poll makes no sense

[Johnny Moxen]

This week's AP poll below. I can't understand how Wylie which is 4-1, defeating a top ten team (Graham) and it's only loss is to a strong 4A team (Aledo) cannot be ranked. I am sure that many other teams can make the same argument, however, I know that some of these teams in the top ten have more than one loss. Just goes to show you that sportswriters know jack squat about sports.

Oh well, It's not where you ranked at the early part of the season but at the end.


Class 3A
Team
1. Cuero (15)
2. Decatur (2)
3. Jasper (3)
4. Kennedale
5. Navasota
6. West Orange-Stark
7. Perryton
8. Liberty Hill
9. Gilmer
10. Sinton

WHO DROPPED OUT: Manor, Graham. Also receiving votes: Longview Spring Hill 30, Abilene Wylie 14, Daingerfield 9, Manor 7, Marlin 5, Tatum 5, Iowa Park 4, Cameron Yoe 4, China Spring 4, Breckenridge 3, Port Isabel 2, Wimberley 1, Canyon 1, Muleshoe 1.

Link: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/sports/...rts_hspoll.:mad:

[PPHSfan]

Abilene Wylie received 14 votes and is ranked 12th.

[Johnny Utah]

Wylie probably should be ranked. They are always a contender. This weeks matchup will set the tone for district. You are right, rankings do not mean a thing!!!! Others that should get some publicity are Cameron, Canyon, Wharton, La Vernia, Snyder, Sweetwater, Caldwell, just to name a few. Waco Connally as well!!!

[chaingang]

Most of THESE teams that have more than 1 loss, were beat by VERY good out of classification teams. Most of them could be undefeated or 1 loss if they played record padding teams.:hand:

[PPHSfan]

There are 183 teams in 3a. Only 10 can be in the top ten. There are probably 40 teams that could lay claim in some way or another to that list of ten. In about ten more weeks there will still be forty teams laying claim to it, but it will be a little easier to pick them.

[Johnny Moxen]

I understand and agree with what your saying chaingang, just that Wylie's schedule (and I am sure others) has not been padded. Only 1 team in Wylie's schedule did not make the playoffs last year and that is Clyde. And the only reason we play Clyde is because they are in our district.

Zero Week - San Angelo Lakeview (4A) There
Week One - Midland Greenwood (3A) Home
Week Two - Aledo (4A) Home
Week Three - Vernon (3A) There
Week Four - Graham (3A) Home

[3afan]

would you rather be in a top 10 or make a playoff run? its the playoffs that matter, not polls ...

[chaingang]

Didnt mean to go guns a blazin, but we have been attacked by many because of our record. I really didnt mean to offend, just stating my opinion. I donot know much about your team, so I am not aiming this toward you. Im just a little trigger happy, thats all. Personally I would rather not be in the top 5 because of the curse it has. Cuero does deserve #1 because of their recent play, but we all know that polls dont mean crap this early.:)

[Kool Tarpon 21]

I don't even like to argue with the AP Poll. 32-3A never gets any recognition. Last year Port Isabel was ranked way down there and we ended up making it to the semi finals. That's to prove how much the rankings are worth. This year Port Isabel is only lost to a 5A Team in over time by 3 points. Still no recognition. It doesn't matter how you start, but how you ended.

[Johnny Utah]

The schools in region 4 respect Port Isabel!!!

[Kool Tarpon 21]

It sure doesn't look like it. Port Isabel never gets any recognition. Ask any PI Fan.

[PPHSfan]

I don't want to rub anyone from PI the wrong way, but....making the semi-finals does not make you a top ten team in it's own right. Just because you are one of the last 8 teams standing at playoff time, does not in fact make you a top ten team.

Flame away.

[RBARKER]

Originally posted by chaingang
Didnt mean to go guns a blazin
Yes you did :D

BH 42
WOS 0

Stir, Stir, Stir :hand:

[Kool Tarpon 21]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I don't want to rub anyone from PI the wrong way, but....making the semi-finals does not make you a top ten team in it's own right. Just because you are one of the last 8 teams standing at playoff time, does not in fact make you a top ten team.

Flame away.

What does? Aren't the top ten teams supposed to be the final eight? Are top ten teams supposed to lose to "okay" teams? Come on, I know that they don't necessarily have to be ranked top ten, but when you make the semi finals, that says a lot about your team. Do you get any recognition? NO! Oh well, it doesn't bother me any. As long as the Tarpons keep on proving that they're better than some of the teams in the top ten, that's all that matter.

GO TARPONS!!!

[Gobbla2001]

Originally posted by Kool Tarpon 21
What does? Aren't the top ten teams supposed to be the final eight? Are top ten teams supposed to lose to "okay" teams? Come on, I know that they don't necessarily have to be ranked top ten, but when you make the semi finals, that says a lot about your team. Do you get any recognition? NO! Oh well, it doesn't bother me any. As long as the Tarpons keep on proving that they're better than some of the teams in the top ten, that's all that matter.

GO TARPONS!!!

You know me, I'd never bash a team coached by Coach Stumbaugh, so this is not bashing PI at all...

But, would making the state championship game (final 4 these days) make you a top 5 team?

Cuero went to state in '98, went 8-4 in '99...

What makes you a top ten team, or what makes the press think of you as a top ten team is how well you did the previous year, what you have returning, and then as the season goes along, 'how you are doing' etc...

One thing you have to think about is the location of the people voting...

chances are, 90% of the people voting in this poll are atleast 200 miles away from Port Isabel... Too far away to see them play, and sometimes too far away to hear things about them (minus scores etc...)...

A lot of things factor into these polls...

I myself wouldn't doubt a team coached by Coach Stump... I'm sure he likes the underdog roll PI will be taking into the playoffs...

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by Kool Tarpon 21
What does? Aren't the top ten teams supposed to be the final eight? Are top ten teams supposed to lose to "okay" teams? Come on, I know that they don't necessarily have to be ranked top ten, but when you make the semi finals, that says a lot about your team. Do you get any recognition? NO! Oh well, it doesn't bother me any. As long as the Tarpons keep on proving that they're better than some of the teams in the top ten, that's all that matter.

GO TARPONS!!!

Look at 5A this year. Two teams in the top 20 in the NATION are in the same district. Only one can be district champ, so does that mean the other team is no good? Hardly. Taking this a step further, it is possible that a very, very good top ten team will play the number 1 team in the state in round 1 of the playoffs. Does this mean that they are not a top ten team? Again, hardly. The last 8 teams in the playoffs may not all be among the best ten teams in the state. But they are the last 8 teams in the playoffs.

[PPHSfan]

Just for the sake of argument, and nothing else let's take a look at something.

Suppose there are 32 teams left in the four regions that are still in the hunt. That does not mean these are the 32 best teams in the state, it only means that they are 32 "OF THE BEST TEAMS" in the state. Now, just for the sake of argument, let's assume for a minute that out of the 32 teams remaining, 12 of the top 16 are all in region 2. Let's say that 2 of the top 16 are in region 1 and 2 are in region 3. Well with that being said, the team that goes all the way thru region 4 and makes the semi-final game could theoretically be the 17th best team in the state. And theoretically they could be the 144th best team in the state, if you factor in the fact that there are 143 or so teams that are not in region 4.

Now the same thing could be said for any team in any region , I am just using PI as an example because of the comment that they were a semi-final team last year.

My argument is that the only true top ten team at the end of the year is the team that wins it all.

Remember the team that wins it all beat a team in round one that might have been the second best team in the state. It's only logical.

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by Johnny Moxen
This week's AP poll below. I can't understand how Wylie which is 4-1, defeating a top ten team (Graham) and it's only loss is to a strong 4A team (Aledo) cannot be ranked. I am sure that many other teams can make the same argument, however, I know that some of these teams in the top ten have more than one loss. Just goes to show you that sportswriters know jack squat about sports.

Oh well, It's not where you ranked at the early part of the season but at the end.


Class 3A
Team
1. Cuero (15)
2. Decatur (2)
3. Jasper (3)
4. Kennedale
5. Navasota
6. West Orange-Stark
7. Perryton
8. Liberty Hill
9. Gilmer
10. Sinton

WHO DROPPED OUT: Manor, Graham. Also receiving votes: Longview Spring Hill 30, Abilene Wylie 14, Daingerfield 9, Manor 7, Marlin 5, Tatum 5, Iowa Park 4, Cameron Yoe 4, China Spring 4, Breckenridge 3, Port Isabel 2, Wimberley 1, Canyon 1, Muleshoe 1.

Link: http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/sports/...rts_hspoll.:mad:

These polls are founded on more than what a team has done in the recent few weeks. The recognition factor weighs in and unfortunately some teams more deserving get overlooked because they are a little under the radar for those who select the teams. That's just life.:)

[bleedgreen]

I'll be glad when the Kennedale/Everman game is over. This will show if Kennedale is truly deserving of the no. 4 spot. If we are beat badly, we may wind up around #20. If it's close, I think they deserve about #15. Good luck Kats.

[Kool Tarpon 21]

What about when a team plays a top ten team? Let's say the team that wasn't ranked in the top ten, beats a team that is. We've done it twice already. I'm not so sure if Aransas Pass was ranked in the top ten in 2002, but I know Rice was ranked in the top ten last year. How do you figure who is in the top ten? By their stats? What about teams that don't care about stats? For example, our coaches would not let us pass the 45 mark when we played teams that we knew we were better than. The only time we would pass it was when the second string would score. Is that how you decide it? Anyways, like I said before, as long as Port Isabel keeps on proving that they are better than some top ten teams, I'm kool. Peace up, A-Town down.

[LH Panther Mom]

All I can say is that the team that lost will generally drop several spots, while the team that won moves up very slowly.

[Ray_BearKat]

Originally posted by Kool Tarpon 21
What about when a team plays a top ten team? Let's say the team that wasn't ranked in the top ten, beats a team that is. We've done it twice already. I'm not so sure if Aransas Pass was ranked in the top ten in 2002, but I know Rice was ranked in the top ten last year. How do you figure who is in the top ten? By their stats? What about teams that don't care about stats? For example, our coaches would not let us pass the 45 mark when we played teams that we knew we were better than. The only time we would pass it was when the second string would score. Is that how you decide it? Anyways, like I said before, as long as Port Isabel keeps on proving that they are better than some top ten teams, I'm kool. Peace up, A-Town down.

Kool Tarpon, really the only thing that matter is that the team be from North, Central or East Texas.

[Chief Woodman]

Originally posted by Kool Tarpon 21
What about when a team plays a top ten team? Let's say the team that wasn't ranked in the top ten, beats a team that is. We've done it twice already. I'm not so sure if Aransas Pass was ranked in the top ten in 2002, but I know Rice was ranked in the top ten last year. How do you figure who is in the top ten? By their stats? What about teams that don't care about stats? For example, our coaches would not let us pass the 45 mark when we played teams that we knew we were better than. The only time we would pass it was when the second string would score. Is that how you decide it? Anyways, like I said before, as long as Port Isabel keeps on proving that they are better than some top ten teams, I'm kool. Peace up, A-Town down.

Bad news about a team that was ranked last year: last year is last year. Just ask 15-0 state champs from last year Gainesville who currently has 2 losses. Any past history i.e. who has the most district titles, state titles or region titles means very little in the current year. What does count is this years Talent, Coaching, hustle and luck.

PS- By the way I do not put alot of faith in polls. No poll has ever put any points on the scoreboard or kept the opposition from scoring. The combination of those two factors is what wins games now.

[GOFOR2]

Originally posted by PPHSfan
I don't want to rub anyone from PI the wrong way, but....making the semi-finals does not make you a top ten team in it's own right. Just because you are one of the last 8 teams standing at playoff time, does not in fact make you a top ten team.

Flame away.

I think PPHS hit the nail on the head, and furthermore because you are one of the top 8 teams in the small school division does not automatically make you a top 10 team overall. Dont forget about the Division I schools that you dont or didnt play against.
There are some good Division I & II schools that dont make the poll. In the end, the polls dont matter. Its just something for sportwriters to do to justify their "football knowledge."

[pavilion]

Originally posted by Kool Tarpon 21
What does? Aren't the top ten teams supposed to be the final eight? Are top ten teams supposed to lose to "okay" teams? Come on, I know that they don't necessarily have to be ranked top ten, but when you make the semi finals, that says a lot about your team. Do you get any recognition? NO! Oh well, it doesn't bother me any. As long as the Tarpons keep on proving that they're better than some of the teams in the top ten, that's all that matter.

GO TARPONS!!!

well think about this for just a second... cuero beats sinton during the season 32-6... sinton and cuero both go division 1 yet sinton makes it 2 rounds farther into the playoffs... what does that tell u??? sometimes an alright team gets put in a position in the playoffs where they get to play some not so great teams that made it in as the 3rd representative from their district... and the top ten teams can't always be in the final 8 because they end up playing each other in the earlier rounds

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by pavilion
well think about this for just a second... cuero beats sinton during the season 32-6... sinton and cuero both go division 1 yet sinton makes it 2 rounds farther into the playoffs... what does that tell u??? sometimes an alright team gets put in a position in the playoffs where they get to play some not so great teams that made it in as the 3rd representative from their district... and the top ten teams can't always be in the final 8 because they end up playing each other in the earlier rounds

:clap: :clap:

[Kool Tarpon 21]

I know that last year is last year. Believe me, I know. How do you decide who's in the top ten though? Like I said earlier, some teams don't concentrate on stats. Well, whatever. I don't know why I'm trying to prove a point when all I care is for Port Isabel to do well in playoffs. Good Luck Tarpons!!! Peace up, A-Town down.

[pavilion]

i wasnt trying to take anything away from this years team... i was just saying that a teams performance in the playoffs last year doesnt represent how good of a team they are this year... good luck to yall... im sure yall deserve to be in the top ten

[Kool Tarpon 21]

Originally posted by pavilion
well think about this for just a second... cuero beats sinton during the season 32-6... sinton and cuero both go division 1 yet sinton makes it 2 rounds farther into the playoffs... what does that tell u??? sometimes an alright team gets put in a position in the playoffs where they get to play some not so great teams that made it in as the 3rd representative from their district... and the top ten teams can't always be in the final 8 because they end up playing each other in the earlier rounds

Yeah, in that case I guess. Again I go with deciding who makes the top ten. They go with stats. Anyways, like someone mentioned before, rankings aren't anything. GO TARPONS!!! Peace up, A-Town down.

[LH Panther Mom]

Originally posted by Kool Tarpon 21
How do you decide who's in the top ten though?

Sports writers that are members of the Associated Press across the state of Texas cast their votes each week. So, the sports folks at the Amarillo Globe-News, El Paso Sun-Times, Houston Chronicle, etc. are who decides the AP poll. Generally, smaller papers (your local hometown paper) are not members of the Associated Press. The RGV papers may be, I'm not positive. If not, this may be the reason PI hasn't been higher in the poll.

[44INAROW]

Originally posted by pavilion
well think about this for just a second... cuero beats sinton during the season 32-6... sinton and cuero both go division 1 yet sinton makes it 2 rounds farther into the playoffs... what does that tell u??? sometimes an alright team gets put in a position in the playoffs where they get to play some not so great teams that made it in as the 3rd representative from their district... and the top ten teams can't always be in the final 8 because they end up playing each other in the earlier rounds

Well said Pavillion :clap:

[3afan]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Sports writers that are members of the Associated Press across the state of Texas cast their votes each week. So, the sports folks at the Amarillo Globe-News, El Paso Sun-Times, Houston Chronicle, etc. are who decides the AP poll. Generally, smaller papers (your local hometown paper) are not members of the Associated Press. The RGV papers may be, I'm not positive. If not, this may be the reason PI hasn't been higher in the poll.

yes - and most are homers !!! the Dallas Morning News guy always has DFW are teams ranked higher that where they are in the overall polls. they ALL do it. and its just their opinion. certainly nothing to get al worked up about.

[Kool Tarpon 21]

Originally posted by LH Panther Mom
Sports writers that are members of the Associated Press across the state of Texas cast their votes each week. So, the sports folks at the Amarillo Globe-News, El Paso Sun-Times, Houston Chronicle, etc. are who decides the AP poll. Generally, smaller papers (your local hometown paper) are not members of the Associated Press. The RGV papers may be, I'm not positive. If not, this may be the reason PI hasn't been higher in the poll.

So the sport writers are bias? Valley teams do not get any recognition because they don't have people that vote for them. Oh well, I guess if you're from the valley, you're screwed. Peace up, A-Town down.

[3afan]

Of course they're biased ...........

[LH Panther Mom]

Bias, sure, but only because they fairly clueless about other areas of the state. A lot of papers will show how their writers voted - it will generally be for the schools close to them.

[slpybear the bullfan]

The only poll that matters is the one after week 16.

slpybear

ps - (my own little observation... Kennedale has 54 pts put on them last friday by 0-5 Bridgeport and they stay #4? Now of course I will say the Bulls are better than there record shows.... but ???)

[Sirsnagsalot]

If you want to prove the polls wrong, dont worry about them and win state. then they might feel stupid

[Sandman]

Tatum received one vote last week, lost to Palestine, and received five votes this week, while Palestine received none. How's that for a run-on sentence!

[Johnny Moxen]

Originally posted by GOFOR2
I think PPHS hit the nail on the head, and furthermore because you are one of the top 8 teams in the small school division does not automatically make you a top 10 team overall. Dont forget about the Division I schools that you dont or didnt play against.
There are some good Division I & II schools that dont make the poll. In the end, the polls dont matter. Its just something for sportwriters to do to justify their "football knowledge."

I think that GOFOR2 hit the nail on the head. All any AP poll is good for is to sell more newspapers. That's why I put ZERO faith in any AP poll.

[cunbed10]

Originally posted by slpybear the bullfan
The only poll that matters is the one after week 16.

slpybear

ps - (my own little observation... Kennedale has 54 pts put on them last friday by 0-5 Bridgeport and they stay #4? Now of course I will say the Bulls are better than there record shows.... but ???) U said it!