Sans Couth Appreciation Thread! [Archive]

sinton66

07-29-2004, 06:09 PM

Sans is a very intelligent and resourceful person. All of you, like him or not, have to admit that when he's on here, this site gets hopping busy. He does the majority of what he does for our entertainment only. We should be grateful. Guess it would be pointless for me to say I like the guy.

Ranger Mom

07-29-2004, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by sinton66
Sans is a very intelligent and resourceful person. All of you, like him or not, have to admit that when he's on here, this site gets hopping busy. He does the majority of what he does for our entertainment only. We should be grateful. Guess it would be pointless for me to say I like the guy.

Yeah...just look at all the hits the threads with his name in it have taken.

I miss him!!:(

GS#17

07-29-2004, 06:44 PM

My favorite thing about him is he hasn't posted here in a while. :clap:

Matthew328

07-29-2004, 07:02 PM

Sans is OK....LOL

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 08:43 PM

GS#17-Sans will have more of the boards support than you'll ever have. You and your WOS friends' pissing and moaning is what made him leave. He is one of the classiest posters on this board, and I'd much rather see him around here than you. If all you have are smart @$$ comments about Sans then keep them to yourself, because he means a lot to this board, more than you ever will.

GS#17

07-29-2004, 09:14 PM

If I were in competition with someone, your post might mean something. As it stands, you've said absolutely nothing. Personally, I don't care who you'd rather see on this board, but as of now, it looks like you're stuck with me, so you my advice is you either learn to love what I write or ignore it. :cool:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 09:17 PM

How unfortunate for us......personally, I wish you'd keep your smart comments and yourself on the WOS boards, but I guess I'll use the cool little ignore feature that came along with this board because you have nothing to contribute except a bad attitude and lack of respect.

WOS1

07-29-2004, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
GS#17-Sans will have more of the boards support than you'll ever have. You and your WOS friends' pissing and moaning is what made him leave. He is one of the classiest posters on this board, and I'd much rather see him around here than you. If all you have are smart @$$ comments about Sans then keep them to yourself, because he means a lot to this board, more than you ever will.

Mighty funny that you are jumping to his defense, kinda like we have for our school. But we are "pissing and moaning". If that's true, then please tell me what the hell you are doing right now????

Another thing, GS-#17 is also one of the classiest posters you'll ever come across. His comments are no more "smart @$$" than those made by your boy. My... it's funny how things can get turned around on you, isn't it?:eek: :thinking:

GS#17

07-29-2004, 09:28 PM

you have nothing to contribute except a bad attitude and lack of respect.

Wow, you sure do enjoy calling people names, don't you? What's the matter, you can't just ignore things that bother you? I'm a little surprised you can't just let me put my two cents worth on here without turning the other cheek. Why so defensive? :D

WOS1

07-29-2004, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
How unfortunate for us......personally, I wish you'd keep your smart comments and yourself on the WOS boards, but I guess I'll use the cool little ignore feature that came along with this board because you have nothing to contribute except a bad attitude and lack of respect.

"you have nothing to contribute except a bad attitude and lack of respect"

Who are we talking about here? That doesn't sound like GS' MO. If someone WOULD show a little respect then NONE of this would be going on right now. It's not us that caused this s**t storm. We shouldn't even be having this literal conversation.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 09:32 PM

No the comments made by Sans were very beneficial to the board. He exposed the WOS posters for who they really are. Now you may have defended your school, but I'm going to defend somebody who isn't even here to defend himself. This isn't the WOS Message Boards where you can talk crap freely about people behind their backs. GS#17 has yet to show any class, because a person who did would have the balls to say something about a person whenever they're around to defend themselves. This isn't pissing and moaning on my part, it's the simple truth. Now who have the tables been turned on? Go back to WOS and do the entire board a favor.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by WOS1
"you have nothing to contribute except a bad attitude and lack of respect"

Who are we talking about here? That doesn't sound like GS' MO. If someone WOULD show a little respect then NONE of this would be going on right now. It's not us that caused this s**t storm. We shouldn't even be having this literal conversation. What do you mean it's not you. The stuff was posted on your message boards, and if I don't recall, the both of you were very instrumental in the conflict in the "Class" thread. I tried to be nice to the WOS posters before, particularly you, but it was just a waste because I see what side you're really on.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by GS#17
Wow, you sure do enjoy calling people names, don't you? What's the matter, you can't just ignore things that bother you? I'm a little surprised you can't just let me put my two cents worth on here without turning the other cheek. Why so defensive? :D Why so defensive? Because Sans is a hell of a good guy and shouldn't be talked about like that. I'm not just going to let you slide when you don't have the balls to say stuff to the man's face, that's all.

Gobbla2001

07-29-2004, 09:40 PM

Whoa...

Urbody on this thread gettin' tickedsy...

GS#17

07-29-2004, 09:48 PM

Try again, BBDE... I wrote it when he was here and I'll say it to his face if I ever meet him. BTW, what happened to your little offer to put me on your "cool little ignore feature?" LOL

BBDE, you're a riot -- you crack me up. Thanks for a good evening of laughs! :clap:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 09:51 PM

Wow, how easily your immaturity shines through. I have yet to ignore you for a reason. You know, I've noticed something funny about you WOS people. You don't post about anything unless it directly effects you. Egotistic and immature...what a combination....

Ranger Mom

07-29-2004, 09:53 PM

Dang!! I go to dinner and all hell breaks loose!!:D :rolleyes:

WOS1

07-29-2004, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Why so defensive? Because Sans is a hell of a good guy and shouldn't be talked about like that. I'm not just going to let you slide when you don't have the balls to say stuff to the man's face, that's all.

OK... WO-S is a hell of a good school and doesn't deserve to be talked about like that either. No, you're not turning anything around on me. EVERYTHING you are doing is EXACTLY what we did. The more you say, the more you contradict yourself. You're losing this one and you don't even realize it, it's ok though, I understand...

"don't have the balls to say stuff to the man's face, that's all."

That just doesn't make a lick of sense. We are POSTING it right here on his home board. If it's not "to his face" then it's no ones fault but his own. Do you really think he's not reading this stuff?

"but it was just a waste because I see what side you're really on."

BBDE, I have no problem with you. I think it's YOU who has picked sides. If that's how it's going to be then it's fine. But know this... I will NEVER sit back and be submissive to his or your backwards @$$ reasoning.

GS#17

07-29-2004, 10:02 PM

BBDE, I guess the alternative is to post something about everything, no matter how silly the thread or or irrelevant the response, for no other reason than to either 1) earn some feeling of self-worth by making as many posts as possible or 2) try to impress people you don't know by simply posting in bulk. Apparently unlike you, I don't intend to post on topics that don't interest me. But, hey, I'm glad you are mature and selfless enough to not only care about what I write, but you show you're one step above most people here by calling names while responding. Wow, maybe one day I can be like you... :rolleyes:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by WOS1
OK... WO-S is a hell of a good school and doesn't deserve to be talked about like that either. No, you're not turning anything around on me. EVERYTHING you are doing is EXACTLY what we did. The more you say, the more you contradict yourself. You're losing this one and you don't even realize it, it's ok though, I understand...

"don't have the balls to say stuff to the man's face, that's all."

That just doesn't make a lick of sense. We are POSTING it right here on his home board. If it's not "to his face" then it's no ones fault but his own. Do you really think he's not reading this stuff?

"but it was just a waste because I see what side you're really on."

BBDE, I have no problem with you. I think it's YOU who has picked sides. If that's how it's going to be then it's fine. But know this... I will NEVER sit back and be submissive to his or your backwards @$$ reasoning. Hey, WOS has yet to prove to me that it is a hell of a school. If it's like anything it's posters, then there is no way that it is. What I'm doing is I'm defending one of my friends, a guy who I have a lot of respect for. You have yet to show where I have contradicted myself, which leads me to believe that you don't know the meaning of the word yourself. Sans isn't around right now. If he were, I would be talking to him through instant messaging. Yeah, I've picked sides alright, and you have picked yours. I never said nothing about you, it was all about GS#17, but you chimed in so you're in on it as much as he is as far as I'm concerned.

GS#17

07-29-2004, 10:17 PM

Hey, everyone, I finally figured it out! Nobody disagree or have your own opinion! Let's all ask BBDE what we should think and write from here on out. Not only will it save BBDE from the headache of having to tell us why we're wrong about any specific topic (while he regresses into namecalling), it will save us the embarrassment of actually trying to be individuals.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by GS#17
BBDE, I guess the alternative is to post something about everything, no matter how silly the thread or or irrelevant the response, for no other reason than to either 1) earn some feeling of self-worth by making as many posts as possible or 2) try to impress people you don't know by simply posting in bulk. Apparently unlike you, I don't intend to post on topics that don't interest me. But, hey, I'm glad you are mature and selfless enough to not only care about what I write, but you show you're one step above most people here by calling names while responding. Wow, maybe one day I can be like you... :rolleyes: Hey, the everything that is posted on the Downlow is better than the crap that you guys post on your threads. I've seen them, and all I've seen is lack of class by many of the posters. You don't know what the Downlow is all about, nor what the people are about either. We're more than a board to talk crap on, we're a community. One that you're not a part of, nor will ever be welcomed into I might add. I've been here since Oct. of 2002. It's taken me this long to acquire almost 900 posts. That's a little over one a day, and sometimes I don't even post. I know just about everybody on this board. Like I said, we're a community. You're the one who is trying to prove that you're one step ahead of the rest of the posters on here more than I ever have. Also, you need to brush up on your reading skills because I never called any names.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by GS#17
Hey, everyone, I finally figured it out! Nobody disagree or have your own opinion! Let's all ask BBDE what we should think and write from here on out. Not only will it save BBDE from the headache of having to tell us why we're wrong about any specific topic (while he regresses into namecalling), it will save us the embarrassment of actually trying to be individuals.

Where do you get your ideas from anyways? I'm getting this vibe that I'm talking to a 12 year old everytime I read one of your posts.

GS#17

07-29-2004, 10:24 PM

Wow, somedays you don't post anything. I'm impressed...

Also, you need to brush up on your reading skills because I never called any names.

Okay, maybe this is a difference in semantics. Here is what I read, maybe you can explain.

all you have are smart @$$ comments

you have nothing to contribute except a bad attitude and lack of respect.

GS#17 has yet to show any class

you don't have the balls to say stuff to the man's face

Wow, how easily your immaturity shines through

GS#17

07-29-2004, 10:26 PM

Where do I get my ideas from? What kind of question is that? Man, you're really reaching... LOL

You know what, at least when you were calling names you were making sense... :rolleyes:

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:27 PM

I have yet to see where I called you any names....let me guess, you learned to read using Hooked on Phonics.

GS#17

07-29-2004, 10:29 PM

Yes, that's it. Hooked on Phonics. That's clever. Did you think of that one all by yourself? LOL

BTW, what do you call it if not namecalling? As I said earlier, perhaps it's a difference in semantics, but that's what I call it.

slpybear the bullfan

07-29-2004, 10:30 PM

Originally posted by Gobbla2001
Whoa...

Urbody on this thread gettin' tickedsy...

ROFLMAO... Nice one Gobbla...

"Erbody on da thread gettin' tickedsy..."

*slpybear gyrates near desk and oozes funk*

3afan2K3

07-29-2004, 10:32 PM

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/2817/kindsans.jpg

sinton66

07-29-2004, 10:32 PM

Okay, I guess I'm going to have to start deleting posts that have nothing to do with the thread subject. I hate it when threads get hi-jacked.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by GS#17
Yes, that's it. Hooked on Phonics. That's clever. Did you think of that one all by yourself? LOL

BTW, what do you call it if not namecalling? As I said earlier, perhaps it's a difference in semantics, but that's what I call it.

It's not name calling. I never directly called you a name. I call it...an observation. Yeah, Hooked on Phonics did good for you....way to stick with the program. Keep it up, and maybe one day you can be on a commercial advertising it and telling America how it changed your life....

GS#17

07-29-2004, 10:33 PM

BBDE, I'm going to end this and go to sleep. I suggest we agree to disagree and let this go. If you don't like my opinion, so be it. I'm not here to make friends -- I have a pretty good life off the computer -- I'm here to discuss football. You and I have different philosophies on many things, and I'd like to keep it at that.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:36 PM

Yeah, whatever.....

slpybear the bullfan

07-29-2004, 10:39 PM

My $.02...

The board is better off when Sans is around. He contributes more than most.

AND... he also has the right to disagree or dislike posters, topics, threads, etc... much like everyone here has so adequately been doing for the last three pages. If he stirs things up on here at times, he is following a well trodden path of those that have gone before him.

Just because we are a community, (which indeed we are BBDE), does not mean that we are of one accord and free of diverse opinion. Quite the opposite is true. And I welcome the occasional disagreement on here. As long as it stays civil.

SO... When/If Sans needs to take a break that is cool. I welcome him back when returns because I think the guy is a major contributer...

I remain your obediant servant,

mwynn05

07-29-2004, 10:39 PM

Let me start by saying there are some good WOS posters posts that i enjoy reading, but some of you i have no respect for you come on here and rip this board..if you dont like it there is a simple soloution LEAVE. This is one of the best boards on the internet! I personally think Sans Couth is a good guy. He may get under your skin a little but thats just him. Thanks to some of you we have lost one of the best posters on this board!

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-29-2004, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by slpybear the bullfan
My $.02...

The board is better off when Sans is around. He contributes more than most.

AND... he also has the right to disagree or dislike posters, topics, threads, etc... much like everyone here has so adequately been doing for the last three pages. If he stirs things up on here at times, he is following a well trodden path of those that have gone before him.

Just because we are a community, (which indeed we are BBDE), does not mean that we are of one accord and free of diverse opinion. Quite the opposite is true. And I welcome the occasional disagreement on here. As long as it stays civil.

SO... When/If Sans needs to take a break that is cool. I welcome him back when returns because I think the guy is a major contributer...

I remain your obediant servant,

Never said we couldn't have our own opinions, nor did I try to infringe upon the rights of people to have their own, but these WOS people just need to go.

WOS1

07-30-2004, 03:55 AM

I'm not going anywhere, if you want someone to leave, then peace out! It's amazing how SOME of you want to skate around the fact that he was disrespectful to our school and to our posters.

Now it's all our fault and we are the bad guys. Give me one good reason for the sh*t he has stirred and I'll shut up.

WOS1

07-30-2004, 04:00 AM

BBDE wrote... "What I'm doing is I'm defending one of my friends"... you still don't get it.:confused:

sinton66

07-30-2004, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by WOS1
I'm not going anywhere, if you want someone to leave, then peace out! It's amazing how SOME of you want to skate around the fact that he was disrespectful to our school and to our posters.

Now it's all our fault and we are the bad guys. Give me one good reason for the sh*t he has stirred and I'll shut up.

Considering this statement, why would you guys start posting in a thread called "Sans Couth Appreciation Thread"? Do you think you're going to change any of his friends' minds about him? Lots of luck with that one.

BHKrystal06

07-30-2004, 06:42 AM

Ya'll take all this fighting and crap somewhere else..Appreciation Thread people!

GS#17

07-30-2004, 07:09 AM

BH, my initial post was an appreciation post -- I appreciate the fact he hasn't posted here in a while. :)

Plain and simple, some people like him, some don't. I happen to be one of the people who doesn't care for him or his style, and since I have an opinion on the topic, I feel good about posting it. For whatever reason, some people are upset not everyone likes him; however, there's nothing that can be done about that.

sinton66

07-30-2004, 07:25 AM

Sorry GS17, I don't buy it. Your post was 180 degrees counter to the spirit of the thread. It looked to me as though your intentions were to continue the stirring.

Once you got it stirred, you tried to put everything on BBDE's back by accusing him of calling you names. He did not call you one single name.

Names are proper nouns by definition. The words he chose to use were descriptive adjectives relating to his opinion. People who know" how to read an English paragraph" should know that.

WOS92

07-30-2004, 08:14 AM

Main Entry: Name
Pronunciation: 'nAm
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English nama; akin to Old High German namo name, Latin nomen, Greek onoma, onyma
1 a : a word or phrase that constitutes the distinctive designation of a person or thing b : a word or symbol used in logic to designate an entity
2 : a descriptive often disparaging epithet <called him names>
3 a : REPUTATION <gave the town a bad name> b : an illustrious record : FAME <made a name for himself in golf> c : a person or thing with a reputation

I don't see anything in the definition that limits "names" to proper nouns.

Ranger Mom

07-30-2004, 08:29 AM

The way I see it, if you don't appreciate the contribution Sans has made to this board, you have no business posting on this thread.

WO-S posters talk about Sans stirring the pot, the post made by GS17 was specifically worded to do the same thing!

What's the difference?

GUNHO

07-30-2004, 08:44 AM

Sorry sinton66,I don't buy that.The question was asked to post your favorite thing about Sans.GS#17 did just that.It was BBDE who fired the first shot.You can tell by reading his reply that he has had this kind of attitude toward wo-s posters in the back of his mind for some time.
Sans and GS#17 just rub each other the wrong way.That is between them and no one else.I'm sure Sans skin,like GS#17 skin is thick enough to cope with each other.BBDE reply was just uncalled for.

Bigdog1

07-30-2004, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Never said we couldn't have our own opinions, nor did I try to infringe upon the rights of people to have their own, but these WOS people just need to go.

Sounds like you just said people can't have thier own opinions.

I believe in free speech, and that it only goes as far as the next mans nose. Meaning you can say what you want , but don't insult a man's wife in front of him, for instance. What I'm trying to say is I was in this same situation on the WOS board, defending my school and got into name calling and nasty insults, etc. We finally agreed to disagee and left at that. I will still defend my school if I feel it is being unfairly attacked, and if it gets nasty so be it. But I try to stay cool-headed now and think before reacting. So I suggest that we agree that some people don't like Sans, some do and let be.

WOS1

07-30-2004, 11:19 AM

What is amazing to me is that, even though GS post was a little abrasive, it was his opinion. Did it stir the pot? Maybe a little, but not even close to what the person for whom this thread is about has done. Now everyone is jumping to his rescue just like we did for our school. Do I now need to go back and pull up all the counseling memo's about being defensive, having thick skin, just accepting it because that's "what he does" and not having a sense of humor?

Are we seeing any similarities here?

As for GS, knowing him and seeing what he is being made to look like here is just a travesty. He is one of the nicest, most honorable posters you could come across. He IS NOT a crap stirrer and shows respect for everyone. If he stays around long enough, you will see.

I really just wish all this crap would STOP, NOW!! I mean, Sans is still stirrng the pot without even posting. I know he's sitting back right now, reading all this crap and laughing his arse off. This just needs to go away...

BHKrystal06

07-30-2004, 12:48 PM

Please make all this stop! If you want to fight, do it somewhere else...make a thread just so you can argue with each other or something..just please not on MY thread.

CRHSeagle

07-30-2004, 12:55 PM

Man o man. This whole Sans Couth thing has just gone mad. The way I see it you can't take what u read on this message board to serious. People are getting riled up about someone who hasnt posted on this website in quite a long time. If I was a WOS fan, Id be glad that Sans hasnt posted in quite a while.

BTW, does anyone remember who that old poster was who got ROM'd for "hacking" into other peoples screen names? Was it Jacket2000 or something like that. Who ever it was, is it still possilbe for them to post on this board but under a different name?

sinton66

07-30-2004, 03:30 PM

No, it wasn't Jacket, and no he won't be posting under another name.

3afan2K3

07-30-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by CRHSeagle

BTW, does anyone remember who that old poster was who got ROM'd for "hacking" into other peoples screen names? Was it Jacket2000 or something like that. Who ever it was, is it still possilbe for them to post on this board but under a different name?
The hacking thing was all a big joke

sinton66

07-30-2004, 05:04 PM

No, the screen name thing was real, and he was nailed for it. The "hack" was a joke.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-30-2004, 08:02 PM

WOS1

07-30-2004, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Who is the he that you are speaking of?

It doesn't matter... it's over. Krystal has ask that we stop and I think we should. It's stupid for us to go back and forth anyway.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-30-2004, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by WOS1
What is amazing to me is that, even though GS post was a little abrasive, it was his opinion. Did it stir the pot? Maybe a little, but not even close to what the person for whom this thread is about has done. Now everyone is jumping to his rescue just like we did for our school. Do I now need to go back and pull up all the counseling memo's about being defensive, having thick skin, just accepting it because that's "what he does" and not having a sense of humor?

Are we seeing any similarities here?

As for GS, knowing him and seeing what he is being made to look like here is just a travesty. He is one of the nicest, most honorable posters you could come across. He IS NOT a crap stirrer and shows respect for everyone. If he stays around long enough, you will see.

I really just wish all this crap would STOP, NOW!! I mean, Sans is still stirrng the pot without even posting. I know he's sitting back right now, reading all this crap and laughing his arse off. This just needs to go away...

You just admitted that he stirred the pot, and then you said he's not a pot stirrer. Which is it? I think you've confused yourself on this one and completely contradicted yourself.

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-30-2004, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by BHKrystal06
Please make all this stop! If you want to fight, do it somewhere else...make a thread just so you can argue with each other or something..just please not on MY thread. Sorry....

WOS1

07-30-2004, 08:20 PM

Look dude... as I said the post before. We need to just let this go. If you aren't willing to drop it then we need to take it somewhere else but Krystal has asked us to stop this on her thread. Are you going to honor that or not?

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-30-2004, 08:22 PM

Yeah, I'm going to honor it, I just didn't see it until after I had already replied, otherwise I would have stopped. Check your PMs.

WOS1

07-30-2004, 08:23 PM

Oops... just saw your last post.

WOS1

07-30-2004, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, I'm going to honor it, I just didn't see it until after I had already replied, otherwise I would have stopped. Check your PMs.

BBDE, back at you...

BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END

07-30-2004, 09:03 PM

Check yours again.

WOS1

07-31-2004, 07:48 AM

BBDE, one more time...

Necked

07-31-2004, 10:43 PM

Man, and I thought going down to 3A was going to be a boring experience! You guys are a hoot!!! And the season hasn't even started yet!
Hello everybody, I'm happy to say I finally found the site that is...dynomite!!!

Old Green

07-31-2004, 11:21 PM

Welcome Necked.:clap:

X Man

07-31-2004, 11:24 PM

Man! There ain't nothing like getting in on the tail end of a good argument. BBDE said on another post that Sans didn't leave because of the WOS people, then he comes in on this post and says it is because of WOS that he left???????????????? To all the WOS people, don't back down......don't give up. To all others, when we are shot at, we shoot back. I will be glad when the football talk starts on this board, instead of all this other Equine Excreetment. GS. keep up the good work.

mwynn05

08-01-2004, 01:07 AM

Originally posted by X Man
Man! There ain't nothing like getting in on the tail end of a good argument. BBDE said on another post that Sans didn't leave because of the WOS people, then he comes in on this post and says it is because of WOS that he left???????????????? To all the WOS people, don't back down......don't give up. To all others, when we are shot at, we shoot back. I will be glad when the football talk starts on this board, instead of all this other Equine Excreetment. GS. keep up the good work. hey hey please dont startthis again i think everyone has finnaly let it go and i think it needs to stay that way. (sorry i dont mean to sound rude)