Our country is in an economic boom!

[Old Cardinal]

Did you hear the job growth figures announced today-the last three months were the greatest increase in three month figures IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS! The really great thing is that millions have started their own businesses in the USA and are finding real independence. I saw an incredible figure on how many enterprising people(mostly very young adults) have started new companies selling products on EBay; and the like! It is good to see young people carry on the tradition of the ole American Way. Have you noticed just how many people can afford to go out regularly and eat at fancy nice restaurants?
Yes there will always be those that are not industrous and get left behind, but the vigor of the economy as a whole affords an opportunity for anyone to thrive that has a bit of snap and will expend some energy....I am proud to be an American in this era of stable surefire economic boom. Innovative people have made this nation a great place to reside!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yeah, the key word is the last four years.

[Smash]

I think the economy has alot to make up for the last four years. Jobs and deficite.

[Pudlugger]

The job growth is so good now that by November all the jobs lost to the tech bubble burst and 9/11 attack will be regained and then some. The Bush economic plan is on track and rolling. If you don't believe me just consult any economist. The deficit will dissappear, as more growth in GDP equates to higher tax revenues, if Congress can reign in spending on unnecessary entitlements and pork barrel projects. Don't forget we are in a war and that always leads to deficits in the short run but if we can sustain this growth and record productivity we will come out fine in a feww years. The worst thing now would be a tax increase that would kill the recovery and actually reduce tax revenue. Old C is right this is a very robust growth cycle we are in. Kerry promises 10 million new jobs...well if he gets in and does nothing we will in fact have 10 million new jobs in his term. That is because the tax cuts Bush inacted are pro-growth and pro-investment which creates wealth for everyone. The Dems need to get over this class envy issue they are fixated on and realize how economies work in free markets. The US economy is the strongest in the world now and getting stronger every day.

[Smash]

I guess you can believe what you want. Last I heard we were in a recesion and that we have created fewer new Jobs in the last 4 years sense the Great Depression. Wonder why Job approval ratings keep diving if the economy is so good. As I Understand it the people who got the biggest tax cut were in the richest 5% of the people. Looks like some fared way better than others. at least the deficite is larger because of the tax cut. My bank account sure Is not.:)

[spiveyrat]

We are NOT in a recession now.

[Smash]

If you say so, but others say different.:)

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Smash
I guess you can believe what you want. Last I heard we were in a recesion and that we have created fewer new Jobs in the last 4 years sense the Great Depression. Wonder why Job approval ratings keep diving if the economy is so good. As I Understand it the people who got the biggest tax cut were in the richest 5% of the people. Looks like some fared way better than others. at least the deficite is larger because of the tax cut. My bank account sure Is not.:) I have two questions for you:

How do you cut taxes on people who don't pay taxes?

Shouldn't the people that pay the most taxes get the most tax relief?

[Old Cardinal]

Wow, We are fighting a worldwide war against Islamic
Terrorist and winning. We overcame a 9-1-1 attack and our economic ram-up policies are working at a spectacular rate. The only thing that is a drag on our thriving society is that a full 40
% of our people are hopelessly dependent of subsidy from the government! They of course vote Democratic hoping to milk the industrious folks for even more pork-barrel handouts.
If somehow we could get this forty percent to get skills, education, and expend basic energy: our recovery would be more than phenomenal!
The reason that ALL working industrous people get tax cuts and that this forty percent, all Democrats, do not, is because they are milking the system and not paying ANY taxes after substuting their subsidies. How can they gripe about folks getting tax cuts when you are sitting around milking the system-sponsored by the Democratic Trial Lawyers that run that whole political party?
Those that gripe the most are actually the drag on our American Way. They call themselves Democrats-I call them parasites, leeches or trial-lawyer-sponsored liberals.

I met a fantastic 26 year old woman the other day. Since she was 18, she has been buying cheap generic computer shells and components and then taking memory chips and cards out of junk discarded computers and making mega-memory computers using the best parts out of junk computers meshed in with new components. She said that she can easily sell these hybrid computers, via the internet. She has already made enough money in 8 years to live comfortably the rest of her life, if she chooses......I did not ask, but I would bet that she is not a crybaby Democrat.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

The reason that 40% of people are relying upon money from the government is because they don't have jobs and the economy sucks. You say that the economy is going up and the unemployment rate is going down. You're forgetting to mention the fact that unemployment is figured on how many peopel are recieving income from the government. This is not including the people who have timed out on unemployment and are still out looking for jobs, and the number of those people are in the thousands. Also, we have people who created their own business as a way to get income because they couldn't find a job and this was their only way to get some money. You're blind to both of these facts, you just look at some numbers that are thrown to you by a bunch of corrupt politicians and believe it. We have companies subsidising and leaving the United States so they can get more money for themselves, and you think it is okay. You want them to get more money, but none of this money will benefit our country and it puts thousands of people out of jobs, but it's okay though. Gas prices are steadily on the rise, but the economy is getting better. It wasn't too long ago people were complaining about the price of a gallon of milk, and now some are praising the economy. I guarantee you, the prices of everything would lower if the economy was supposedly booming as you said it was, but the prices of everything, along with the gas, are steadily on the rise. This is called INFLATION...think about it. The economy has yet to boom. The last time we had a good economy was during the tenure of Bill Clinton, a Democrat. From 1992-200 was the best economic times that our country faced. We had the highest rate of employement we have had in decades, the highest number of people with homes, and the lowest unemployement rate and people actually had jobs. We were in no wars because Clinton was smart enough to realize that it was unneccessary to fight needlessly, at the cost of many young lives and billions of dollars. Donald Rumsfeld said it himself, the Republican party is responsible for creating more terrorists. We are losing the fight to end terrorism because the Republicans are making more and more people terrorists by their actions. We had no reason to go into Iraq, it wasn't our place. Going into Iraq seems to be turning out to be a total waste. The middle class is disolving every day, and at the rate things are going, there won't be one in a few years if Bush has his way. We will either have the poor or the extremely rich Republicans, which is what he wants. No middle class=no economic prosperity. You spit in the faces of Democrats and call them worthless, but I assure you, the only one who is just happens to be you. Not too long ago you had the audacity to say that Democrats were pathetic and spineless. I have news for you, my father is a Democrat and served his four years and is a Vietnam vet. He left his family, but did you? You're calling my father a leech, but he is the one who fought for each and every one of us. He fought for our freedom, he fought for the way of life you and I both have right now. You have done nothing for this country, but you think you can sit back and have the right to criticize Democrats for not being stupid and standing up and in an attempt to get the one of the worst presidents out of office.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
...you just look at some numbers that are thrown to you by a bunch of corrupt politicians and believe it... lol. I mean no disrespect with this, but you're one to talk.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yeah, but it's the truth. Plus, I don't listen to the politicians or television.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
... You have done nothing for this country... Easy now...

[Old Tiger]

TV is all i have!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Yeah, but it's the truth. Plus, I don't listen to the politicians or television. Then where do you get your information?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Most of what I've put up there is common knowledge, the other stuff about Rumsfeld, I heard him say it himself, but I was just walking by, so yeah, I do get some from it, but he was criticizing his own party. I don't watch TV very often though, and I get bits and pieces when I'm on the computer, but that's about it.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
...You say that the economy is going up and the unemployment rate is going down. You're forgetting to mention the fact that unemployment is figured on how many peopel are recieving income from the government. This is not including the people who have timed out on unemployment and are still out looking for jobs, and the number of those people are in the thousands... Well, then considering our population is near 300 million, I'd say that a few thousand people out of work isn't that bad after all.

BTW - Creating an opportunity to create your own business is what this country has done for years. You act like it's a bad thing. The economy is such that some jobs don't ever come back. That's why you don't see wagon makers and blacksmiths around anymore. Sometimes you have to go into a different field to find a job. That's life. At least in the US you've got that opportunity.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I have two questions for you:

How do you cut taxes on people who don't pay taxes?

Shouldn't the people that pay the most taxes get the most tax relief? You still haven't answered my questions...

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Smash
I guess you can believe what you want. Last I heard we were in a recesion and that we have created fewer new Jobs in the last 4 years sense the Great Depression. Wonder why Job approval ratings keep diving if the economy is so good. As I Understand it the people who got the biggest tax cut were in the richest 5% of the people. Looks like some fared way better than others. at least the deficite is larger because of the tax cut. My bank account sure Is not.:)
.
.
.
Smash.......meanmachine.......
Both names have a certain ring to them. I'd say that both names could have easily been created by the same author....
What do you think JD94?;)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

I said thousands because I don't know the exact number and I'm not going to put and off the wall number. Like I said, I don't look it up, but it's the truth, and it's more than a few thousand. It's not a bad thing, but the reason many people are doing it is bad, though.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
.
.
Smash.......meanmachine.......
Both names have a certain ring to them. I'd say that both names could have easily been created by the same author....
What do you think JD94?;) I'm starting to wonder.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
I said thousands because I don't know the exact number and I'm not going to put and off the wall number. Like I said, I don't look it up, but it's the truth, and it's more than a few thousand. It's not a bad thing, but the reason many people are doing it is bad, though. If you're not going to look up the info, then don't post about it with unknown facts. I really couldn't understand the rest of this post. Is looking for a job a good thing or a bad thing? You kinda lost me there.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Well, if you're going to put it that way, there are a lot of people who shouldn't post. I'm not puting half-truths on the table, and I do know what I'm talking about. The number is more than a few thousand, though, and the reason that some people are making their own businesses is because they can't find a job, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Well, if you're going to put it that way, there are a lot of people who shouldn't post. I'm not puting half-truths on the table, and I do know what I'm talking about. The number is more than a few thousand, though, and the reason that some people are making their own businesses is because they can't find a job, which isn't necessarily a good thing.
.
You can't be serious with saying, "and the reason that some people are making their own businesses is because they can't find a job, which isn't necessarily a good thing."
.
This country was built on that kind of entrepenuerial spirit. That's how many parts of our economy are driven. Please tell me how that's a bad thing?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Nevermind, both of ya'll missed the entire point completely.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Smash
If you say so, but others say different.:)
Show us.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Nevermind, both of ya'll missed the entire point completely.
.
You were trying to say the economy was so bad folks HAD to start their own businessess...
.
I think I understood that. Any comment on mine?

[spiveyrat]

I heard today that the unemployment rate is the same now as it was during Clinton's tenure.

OK, let me try to understand. That number is an acceptable unemployment rate when a Dem is in office but is an autrocity when a Rep in there.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Read back a bit to one of my posts. It explains how unemployement is figured.

[JasperDog94]

Spivey,

It's different because people just stop looking for a job when a Rep. is in office.:D :D

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
.
.
Smash.......meanmachine.......
Both names have a certain ring to them. I'd say that both names could have easily been created by the same author....
What do you think JD94?;)


That is funny that you should say that!! I sent a PM to 66 about an hour ago saying the same thing!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I have two questions for you:

How do you cut taxes on people who don't pay taxes?

Shouldn't the people that pay the most taxes get the most tax relief? I'm still waiting for my answers...

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The reason that 40% of people are relying upon money from the government is because they don't have jobs and the economy sucks. You say that the economy is going up and the unemployment rate is going down. You're forgetting to mention the fact that unemployment is figured on how many peopel are recieving income from the government. This is not including the people who have timed out on unemployment and are still out looking for jobs, and the number of those people are in the thousands. Also, we have people who created their own business as a way to get income because they couldn't find a job and this was their only way to get some money. You're blind to both of these facts, you just look at some numbers that are thrown to you by a bunch of corrupt politicians and believe it. We have companies subsidising and leaving the United States so they can get more money for themselves, and you think it is okay. You want them to get more money, but none of this money will benefit our country and it puts thousands of people out of jobs, but it's okay though. Gas prices are steadily on the rise, but the economy is getting better. It wasn't too long ago people were complaining about the price of a gallon of milk, and now some are praising the economy. I guarantee you, the prices of everything would lower if the economy was supposedly booming as you said it was, but the prices of everything, along with the gas, are steadily on the rise. This is called INFLATION...think about it. The economy has yet to boom. The last time we had a good economy was during the tenure of Bill Clinton, a Democrat. From 1992-200 was the best economic times that our country faced. We had the highest rate of employement we have had in decades, the highest number of people with homes, and the lowest unemployement rate and people actually had jobs. We were in no wars because Clinton was smart enough to realize that it was unneccessary to fight needlessly, at the cost of many young lives and billions of dollars. Donald Rumsfeld said it himself, the Republican party is responsible for creating more terrorists. We are losing the fight to end terrorism because the Republicans are making more and more people terrorists by their actions. We had no reason to go into Iraq, it wasn't our place. Going into Iraq seems to be turning out to be a total waste. The middle class is disolving every day, and at the rate things are going, there won't be one in a few years if Bush has his way. We will either have the poor or the extremely rich Republicans, which is what he wants. No middle class=no economic prosperity. You spit in the faces of Democrats and call them worthless, but I assure you, the only one who is just happens to be you. Not too long ago you had the audacity to say that Democrats were pathetic and spineless. I have news for you, my father is a Democrat and served his four years and is a Vietnam vet. He left his family, but did you? You're calling my father a leech, but he is the one who fought for each and every one of us. He fought for our freedom, he fought for the way of life you and I both have right now. You have done nothing for this country, but you think you can sit back and have the right to criticize Democrats for not being stupid and standing up and in an attempt to get the one of the worst presidents out of office.
.

The reason that 40% of people are relying upon money from the government is because they don't have jobs and the economy sucks.
.
I want the link to that info, please. I want to see the proof too.:D
.
.

The last time we had a good economy was during the tenure of Bill Clinton, a Democrat. From 1992-200 was the best economic times that our country faced.
.
Umm, "Slick Willy" wasn't in office until 1993. I guess he got credit for 1992??? Amazing!:p
.
.

We will either have the poor or the extremely rich Republicans, which is what he wants. No middle class=no economic prosperity.
.
Your canidate John Kerry is a multi-millionaire. His wife's company(Heinz) has out-sourced thousands of jobs to overseas countries.:thinking:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Sorry, no link SintonFan.

[Old Tiger]

it's linked to his insanity :D:D:D:D j/k

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yeah, and my foot is about to be linked to something of yours if you keep it up. :D j/k

[Smash]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I have two questions for you:

How do you cut taxes on people who don't pay taxes?

Shouldn't the people that pay the most taxes get the most tax relief?
answer is NO.:) Many who got a tax cut dont NEED tax relief. If you cant afford somethnig you dont buy it. its that simple. the country could not afford to give money bags a tax cut.

[Old Tiger]

exactly

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Smash
answer is NO.:) Many who got a tax cut dont NEED tax relief. If you cant afford somethnig you dont buy it. its that simple. the country could not afford to give money bags a tax cut.
.
Are you an economist? A moralist? A theologian? An accountant?
What right do you have to say what somebody NEEDS or don't need? How can you even say what our country can afford or not afford? What makes you an expert?
Don't say 'common sense' or any other generic blatherings because it won't stick...:hand:

[Smash]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
.
.
Smash.......meanmachine.......
Both names have a certain ring to them. I'd say that both names could have easily been created by the same author....
What do you think JD94?;) OK, Im lost now. maybe you know about this post but you lost me on this one.:confused:

[Smash]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Are you an economist? A moralist? A theologian? An accountant?
What right do you have to say what somebody NEEDS or don't need? How can you even say [/]what our country can afford or not afford[/i]? What makes you an expert?
Don't say 'common sense' or any other generic blatherings because it won't stick...:hand: Im just a taxpayer and voter.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Smash
answer is NO.:) Many who got a tax cut dont NEED tax relief. If you cant afford somethnig you dont buy it. its that simple. the country could not afford to give money bags a tax cut. You're right. We should just keep taxing everyone to death. After all, the 70% tax rate that Carter imposed seemed to work really well didn't it?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Smash
answer is NO.:) Many who got a tax cut dont NEED tax relief. If you cant afford somethnig you dont buy it. its that simple. the country could not afford to give money bags a tax cut.
.
When you give a tax break to a business owner it frees up money to hire more employees or upgrade their business. They spend the money they are not taxed on.
BTW, do you realize that the money we make just happens to be our own money. Or is it the money we make the government's money? I'm curious as to you're response...

[RBARKER]

3A High School football rocks. UM UH sorry wrong thread:rolleyes:

PS GO BUSH:D

[JasperDog94]

As much as I'm enjoying this discussion, I'll have to pick it up after Friday. I'm heading to Chicago to WillowCreek Community Church's Arts Conference. Talk to you folks after Friday.:)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
As much as I'm enjoying this discussion, I'll have to pick it up after Friday. I'm heading to Chicago to WillowCreek Community Church's Arts Conference. Talk to you folks after Friday.:)
.
Good luck!:)
.
There are a few of us that will have to "pick up the slack.":D

[Ranger Mom]

This came in my e-mail earlier, and if true, I find it extremely interesting!! As Jason likes to remind me ever so often, I am OLD, so this must be just around the corner for me!!

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social Security (FICA) Program.


He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be completely voluntary.

2.) That the participants would only have to pay 1% of the first $1,400 of their annual incomes into the Program.

3.) That the money the participants elected to put into the Program would be deductible from their income for tax purposes each year.

4.) That the money the participants put into the independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the General operating fund, and therefore, would only be used to fund the Social Security Retirement Program, and no other Government program.

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income.


Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are now receiving a Social Security check every month -- and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of the money we paid to the Federal government to "put away," you may be interested in the following:


Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the independent "Trust" fund and put it into the General fund so that Congress could spend it?

A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically-controlled House and Senate.


Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.


Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social Security annuities?

A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the "tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the Senate, while he was Vice President of the U.S.


Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants?

A: That's right! Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party. Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65, began to receive SSI Social Security payments! The Democratic Party gave these payments to them, even though they never paid a dime into it!

Then, after doing all this lying and thieving and violation of the original contract (FICA), the Democrats turn around and tell you that the Republicans want to take your Social Security away!


And the worst part about it is, uninformed citizens believe it!

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by Smash
If you say so, but others say different.:)

The recession began in January 2001 and ended in December of 2001. Since October 2001 the US economy has grown 10 straight quarters. Don't take my word for it here is the link to the U.S. Department of Commerce with the data neatly displayed graphically. Do your homework.

http://www.bea.gov/briefrm/gdp.htm

[Old Cardinal]

To Big Blue Defensive End: I understand you have turned 17 years of age---we all fully expect you to now quit HS and join the army immediately! Don't give us that bull about wanting to finish High School. You tell everyone else what we should have done!...You have called me names because I had a full time job, two kids and trying to finish college before being drafted. I wanted to finish college to get to Officers School. The war was over and they never drafted guys with families...I truly respect our veterans, however.

As for you, drop out of school and join the army, certainly don't finish HS.....But tell us when you are leaving for bootcamp so we can wish you good bye... There are many young men that are working and raising a family in the USA right now that are patriotic but have not volunteered to join and go to Iraq. The same was true in the Nam era.

I have a question; however, there seems to be a 17 year old kid writing sometimes and then there appears to be an adult with a whole different phraseology writing under the same name. Who is the other caustic writer. Another question, I have grandchildren older than you, yet you talk about your father being old as I am-strange....You folks are not trying to hoodwink us 3 A Down Low friends?

ON ANOTHER ISSUE____

I agree folks, that "Smash" is the same one that they rom'ed a while back!

[Old Tiger]

any comments you'd like to say to me OC :D

[Old Tiger]

BBDE isn't 17, I don't think, because I'll turn 17 before he does, in 2 months!

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
To Big Blue Defensive End: I understand you have turned 17 years of age---we all fully expect you to now quit HS and join the army immediately! Don't give us that bull about wanting to finish High School. You tell everyone else what we should have done!...You have called me names because I had a full time job, two kids and trying to finish college before being drafted. I wanted to finish college to get to Officers School. The war was over and they never drafted guys with families...I truly respect our veterans, however.

As for you, drop out of school and join the army, certainly don't finish HS.....But tell us when you are leaving for bootcamp so we can wish you good bye... There are many young men that are working and raising a family in the USA right now that are patriotic but have not volunteered to join and go to Iraq. The same was true in the Nam era.

I have a question; however, there seems to be a 17 year old kid writing sometimes and then there appears to be an adult with a whole different phraseology writing under the same name. Who is the other caustic writer. Another question, I have grandchildren older than you, yet you talk about your father being old as I am-strange....You folks are not trying to hoodwink us 3 A Down Low friends?

ON ANOTHER ISSUE____

I agree folks, that "Smash" is the same one that they rom'ed a while back!

I am 16, for your information. I would not have said a thing to you had you not directly criticized my family and my father. You were the person who made it personal, not me. Yes, as soon as I get out of college, I'm going to join the army. I apologize that you didn't have the testicular fortitude to do so yourself. I also apologize for the fact that you have grandchildren who are older than I am. Yes, my father is 55 years old, and yes, I am 16. I can send you my drivers license, as well as his. I have 4 older brothers, one 30, one 22, and one 20. I am the youngest of the bunch. I'm flattered by the fact that you think I am an adult by the way I write, I really am. I would have never said a thing to you if you would not have spit in my face with your remarks about Democrats being lazy and worthless, not the candidates, but those who support the party. All I asked for when you said it was an apology, but you completely ignored me and continue to go on your rants about how worthless Democrats are. All I've ever done was defend myself from people like you. You slander the name of the Democrats, and I don't appreciate it, especially when you make it personal. I'm sorry that all of this has escalated into a feud, but you throw fuel on the fire with your remarks. I'll say what I have to say to defend myself.

[HighSchool Fan]

Please guys remember that BBDE is still just a kid. He hasn't had to go out to make an honest living yet. Unfortunally most teachers, not all, are democrats and try to lead their students towards the democratic party. I've got 7 family members that teach school and they are the ones who brought this to my attention. Even UT has students prostesting and has web sites about teachers teaching the democratic way, not the American way. When BBDE gets a real education he will realize that the top 5% of the richest Americans are paying over 50% of all taxes. He seems like a smart kid who is just getting bad advice.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

True, I am just a kid. I only have one teacher, and have had only one teacher who is Democratic ever since I've been in school. What you are saying is false. It has been the Republican teachers if any of them who have tried to teach us Republican beliefs. I'm just defending myself when I have to, and no I don't know anything. I'm sure that guys on here like Puddlugger and Sleepy, and even Old Cardinal know tons more than I do, but we are standing on different sides of the fence and have different views and interpret things different ways, and I do respect the other posters opinions, but calling people worthless and lazy just because they support the Democratic party is not the way to convey your opinions. That's all I have to say about it.

[Old Cardinal]

Thank you Highschoolfan for the reminder....You are right the vast majority of teachers and all others that indirectly live off the profit making taxpayers tend to be very liberal. Not all however. If you get out in the world of business and industry and learn what it takes to turn a profit: you have a direct advantage in understanding economics; over those that live off taxpayer money. That is not to say that some of those people really earn the little salaries that they get. The exception is the massive Trial Lawyer network that continually sue the corporations of American sharing the bounty with the folks that do all the sueing. These Lawyers get filthy rich by extracting loot from the economy, without making any viable contribution. It takes a few years to get all this liberal baloney that you get in HS and liberal arts education out of your system; out in the real world of commerce, finance, and industry.

[pakrat]

We definitely are in an economic boom and if it gets any worse, my eardrums are gonna pop!

[Old Tiger]

I think BBDE should just be ROM'ed and get rid of all the heated debates on politics and stuff :D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
I think BBDE should just be ROM'ed and get rid of all the heated debates on politics and stuff :D
.
Maybe you should just "git your arse" in the weight room...:rolleyes: :p

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Gas prices are steadily on the rise,...

Not true. Gas prices are high, but they are falling right now. Oil yesterday was $38 and some change per barrel. Gas prices here reached $2.09 but now are hovering in the low $1.90's.

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Not true. Gas prices are high, but they are falling right now. Oil yesterday was $38 and some change per barrel. Gas prices here reached $2.09 but now are hovering in the low $1.90's.

When you adjust today's price of gas for inflation it is way less than what folks were paying during the real gas crisis in the mid 70's. I remember long lines at the pump and $1.75 prices . A $1 in 1976 was like $2 or $3 now. Some people were hoarding gasoline. A guy in Los Angeles blew himself up when he filled a 55 gallon trash container full of gas and stored it in his closet!!!! True story ...I remember reading about it at the time.

BBDE should spend some time living in the 70's under Carter, than he'd understand what some of "old guys" are talking about on this board. Of course that is not possible so we must try to explain things well to him and not get angry and frustrated resorting to polarizing ad homanum remarks.

I was a real liberal once when I was in college. When I got a job as a welfare worker in Los Angeles and started figuring out how our free market system works..what makes it run well and what gums it up...I became more and more conservative (especially in the economic sense ). Latter, as a physician, I saw how failed social policies translated in terms of loss of health and any chance of gaining prosperity. Having raised four children, I have also become conservative in a social sense. I can easily tolerate, and usually coexist, with much of the liberal social agenda but I am often uncomfortable "celebrating" it, or elevating it to the status of special privilege.

[Old Tiger]

Is it me or does anyone else notice that the middle class american citizen always gets short handed in all these tax cuts and other such things?

[spiveyrat]

I didn't. My tax return was nice and plump! :D :clap:

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
Is it me or does anyone else notice that the middle class american citizen always gets short handed in all these tax cuts and other such things?

First, 30 million employees went completely off the tax roles due to the cut at the lower income level. That means one in 8 Americans will now pay no income tax at all - a major cut for them. Tha average family of 4 received an $1100 tax cut- that is a significant amount of money. Maybe you didn't notice the tax cut because you are not earning money now but going to school.

[Old Tiger]

oh well, I'm too young to worry about this old men stuff :D

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by Old Tiger
Is it me or does anyone else notice that the middle class american citizen always gets short handed in all these tax cuts and other such things?

No the middle class American is getting the lions share of the Federal breaks right now- it is the upper middle class who are getting hosed. The middle class qualify for most means tested benefits such as education grants, scholarships, work-study, and loans, federal housing loans and federal housing rent subsidies, medicaid for those at $200% of "poverty level"(an artificial number which is not exactly reflective of real poverty and twice the level is close to a modest yet comfortable income) and many more benies. The upper middle class (those making $200,000/yr to $500,000/yr) pay 75% of federal income tax and do not qualify for any of these programs. They are often self-employed and must pay for their own health insurance which, up until Bush's tax cut, were not deductible. So you have one group of very productive upwardly mobile earners shouldering almost the entire tax burden. What this means is that a wall of taxation has been built between the middle class individual and the truly wealthy, making it much more difficult for a middle class person to move up the ladder, creating wealth for his or her family and future generations. This is the dirty secret of the Democratic Party. When they harp on "tax breaks for the rich" engendering this envy and resentment towards Americans who have succeeded, they make it more likely those complaining will never rise above the middle class. The worst nightmare for Democrats is to have more and more folks succeed in acqusition of wealth. Soon there would be nobody left to appeal to with this class warfare mentality.

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
I didn't. My tax return was nice and plump! :D :clap:

Mine too!!!:D :D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Ranger Mom
Mine too!!!:D :D
.
You and spiveyrat should be ashamed of yourselves!:mad: :mad: :mad:
Yall got those big tax returns and didn't deserve it. It could be better used for K-12 sex education. Or foodstamps for the poor. Or welfare or something like those things. I mean you both make plenty of money, I'm sure. You both are just greedy! For shame...:( :eek:

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

My thoughts exactly SintonFan....:D ;)

[SintonFan]

I mean why should people even get a return when there are so many starving children out there...:(

[sinton66]

Careful that tongue don't poke through your cheek there, buddy.:D

[SintonFan]

Not only the children, but the environment needs to be preserved and some parts of the country are poisonous and need to be cleaned up. This is expensive stuff.

[SintonFan]

But lets worry about the children first...
we shouldn't receive any tax returns while there are starving children.

[SintonFan]

We would need to feed all the hungry children first with all the extra money. But then I worry about the children all over the rest of the world...:(

[SintonFan]

With any left over money we should use it to feed as many children around the world as we can.:)

[SintonFan]

But, we wouldn't have enough money to feed ALL the children and many nations like New Zealand would be jealous that other nations won't have starving children because we fed them.:(

[SintonFan]

So then we would need to raise taxes to feed All the starving children in the whole world. And the world would be a better place.:cool:

[SintonFan]

Unfortunately, with so many children fed, their parents might not have to work as hard. At least the ones who had a job. We would probably have to raise taxes again to compensate the inevitable loss of tax revenue.:(

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
My thoughts exactly SintonFan....:D ;)
.
Thanks:)

[SintonFan]

Also with the tax rate around 85%+ many more people would lose their jobs because corporations and business owners couldn't stay in business.:(
We'd have to raise the tax rate again.:thinking:

[SintonFan]

With even higher tax rates the government would have to step in and stimulate the economy by hiring people for various jobs...

[SintonFan]

Wait a minute! This sounds just like socialism(communism). That's not right.
.
.
.
Hey Ranger Mom and spiveyrat! Keep your tax returns! You earned them...:cool:

[sinton66]

Can I keep mine too?:D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by sinton66
Can I keep mine too?:D
.
LOL

[spiveyrat]

Is it just me, or does it seem Sintonfan is trying to bump up his number of posts??? ;)

[sinton66]

Nah, he was just having some fun.;)

[Ranger Mom]

Originally posted by SintonFan
Wait a minute! This sounds just like socialism(communism). That's not right.
.
.
.
Hey Ranger Mom and spiveyrat! Keep your tax returns! You earned them...:cool:

Oh thank goodness.....mine is now laying in my backyard as yards and yards of concrete!!:D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Is it just me, or does it seem Sintonfan is trying to bump up his number of posts??? ;)
.
Nah, I was just talking to myselves...:D

[CowboyFan]

Has neone called a tech support lately for your computer company dell, hp, ect. well if you have I'm sure that you probably talked to someone in india. A majority of those jobs have been exported overseas... As have many other job, many in the industial field, many of the plants, DuPont, Invista, BP, though they aren't American companies, they are leaving because, it's cheaper to manufacture overseas. (I Live in South Texas, almost everyone I know works at Dow, Phormosa, or one of the others I just mentioned they will all tell you the same thing) Levi, just shipped half of thier manufactoring job overseas a few years ago. Business is down I don't know what yall are talking about a boom, yeah the economy is picking up some, but it still doesn't compare to the boom of the late 90's I'm not going to credit Clinton with that because I haven't seen any info. Pointing to where that came from, I'm only 18, but I do know that gradutes from college are facing the worst job market in decades. Just my two cents on Kerry, I saw earlier someone mention that he was a millionaire, what does that have to do with it, isn't Bush, I mean he used to be part owner of the Rangers, and Cheney, the former president of Halliburton!! Um, lets talk about wealth. We have the largest deficit this country has ever faced, State's like New York are changing there Blue Laws, to try and bring in the extra money, Funding for colleges, is being cut down while tuition rises. The list goes on...

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by CowboyFan
Has neone called a tech support lately for your computer company dell, hp, ect. well if you have I'm sure that you probably talked to someone in india. A majority of those jobs have been exported overseas... As have many other job, many in the industial field, many of the plants, DuPont, Invista, BP, though they aren't American companies, they are leaving because, it's cheaper to manufacture overseas. (I Live in South Texas, almost everyone I know works at Dow, Phormosa, or one of the others I just mentioned they will all tell you the same thing) Levi, just shipped half of thier manufactoring job overseas a few years ago. Business is down I don't know what yall are talking about a boom, yeah the economy is picking up some, but it still doesn't compare to the boom of the late 90's I'm not going to credit Clinton with that because I haven't seen any info. Pointing to where that came from, I'm only 18, but I do know that gradutes from college are facing the worst job market in decades. Just my two cents on Kerry, I saw earlier someone mention that he was a millionaire, what does that have to do with it, isn't Bush, I mean he used to be part owner of the Rangers, and Cheney, the former president of Halliburton!! Um, lets talk about wealth. We have the largest deficit this country has ever faced, State's like New York are changing there Blue Laws, to try and bring in the extra money, Funding for colleges, is being cut down while tuition rises. The list goes on...

Saw an Economics Professor from Dartmouth last night on CNN Lou Dobbs show talk about the whole outsourcing thing. According to a recent research study for every one job outsourced overseas, two new jobs are created here at home. You see, when ACME Widgets moves its plant overseas, they still need employees here for marketing, accounting sales distribution and so forth. Plus, since they can make more widgets now for less, they earn greater profits, which translates to money in the hands of concumers here, and other companies that supply them or provide products to its employees...so that is why you get a net gain in jobs. What many Dems are complaining about is the loss of the specific manufacturing jobs in making the widgets, yet more jobs, many requiring greater skills such as managerial positions, technological positions accounting etc are developed here in so doing. It is true that some folks will need to upgrade their skills to compete in a changing world, but that has always been the case. As for college support, federal aid is at an all time high now, check it out if you don't believe me. States are in need of more revenue because they overspent unwisely during the big tech bubble in the late 90's when the market went to 12,000 on the DOW and over 5000 on the Nasdaq. Certainly the governors should have realized that such profits could not be sustained and instead of spending like drunken sailors tucked some away in a rainy day fund. I don't think Kerry will solve these problems by killing off this robust recovery we are now in with incentive destroying tax hikes.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

You are still forgetting the issue of inflation. Prices of everything has risen, and all you do is ignore it. Gas has gone up a good .70 cents a gallon since Bush took office, and some of you think the economy is getting better since it has dropped maybe .04 in the last two weeks. The prices of the things that are the most important for us to get by have gone up, food and gasoline. I don't need some figures and projections to realize that the economy isn't good if what is going on around us answers that obvious question.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by SintonFan
.
Nah, I was just talking to myselves...:D

OH! I get it... multiple personalities. :D

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Pudlugger
It is true that some folks will need to upgrade their skills to compete in a changing world, but that has always been the case.

That's the key right there. We are a part of a GLOBAL economy now. It is not nearly as localized or even regionalized as it used to be.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You are still forgetting the issue of inflation. Prices of everything has risen, and all you do is ignore it. Gas has gone up a good .70 cents a gallon since Bush took office, and some of you think the economy is getting better since it has dropped maybe .04 in the last two weeks. The prices of the things that are the most important for us to get by have gone up, food and gasoline. I don't need some figures and projections to realize that the economy isn't good if what is going on around us answers that obvious question.

I heard this morning that Greenspan will probably raise interest rates more quickly than was forcast to help ease inflation.

President Bush cannot control the price of gas. The high prices we are experiencing at the pumps is a simple matter of supply and demand.

You don't need figures and projections to realize that the economy isn't good, eh? Well you might as well crawl in a hole and stay there because you can't make educated analysis without them. Perhaps the economy isn't good where you are. I'm sure there are 100's of small towns all across the country that could attest to that. But, that doesn't mean that things aren't better elsewhere.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

The last thing that you said is very true, and I agree with you 100%, but what is important to me and helps me AND a wide range of people is what I want, and I think Kerry can do a better job than Bush can.

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The last thing that you said is very true, and I agree with you 100%, but what is important to me and helps me AND a wide range of people is what I want, and I think Kerry can do a better job than Bush can.
.
Raising taxes the way Kerry wants to would quickly launch this country into a recession at the least.

[sinton66]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
The last thing that you said is very true, and I agree with you 100%, but what is important to me and helps me AND a wide range of people is what I want, and I think Kerry can do a better job than Bush can.

"What I want". Therein lies the problem. It's what people want that causes inflation. People want higher wages for the same amount or less work, longer vacations, more holidays, better insurance benefits, better retirement benefits, more sick days, more paid leaves of absence, yada, yada, yada. They expect the government to pick up more of the tab for everything, more subsidies, more grants, more this, more that(which results in higher taxes). ALL of these things equate to increased production costs for manufacturers and business owners. That's why there is inflation, not corporate greed as liberals suggest. That's why business outsources. What you don't understand that in doing so, they have actually put lots of people in business for themselves. It's cheaper to pay someone contract pricing to do a particular job for you than it is to HIRE someone to do that job. It's because of all the payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, medical/dental benefits and such. Most benefit packages today cost an employer almost as much as an employee's regular salary. EMPLOYEES are the biggest expense in any enterprize. This is the principle the liberals just don't seem to get.

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
You are still forgetting the issue of inflation. Prices of everything has risen, and all you do is ignore it. Gas has gone up a good .70 cents a gallon since Bush took office, and some of you think the economy is getting better since it has dropped maybe .04 in the last two weeks. The prices of the things that are the most important for us to get by have gone up, food and gasoline. I don't need some figures and projections to realize that the economy isn't good if what is going on around us answers that obvious question.

The CPI an index most economist use to gauge inflation went up about 1% last year and is projected to rise to 3.5% this year, mostly due to increased energy costs. Compare that to the historical levels of 6-11% in the past 30 years and I tell you we are NOT experiencing significant inflation. You are too young to know what 11% inflation was like (not to mention 18-21% interest rates on mortgages and loans) but I do, I was in my residency training as a physician with a wife and two kids trying to stretch a small paycheck from month to month. Prices literally went up before your eyes. This has been one of the best non-inflationary low interest rate periods in history.

[Old Cardinal]

It double entered-see the next message

[Old Cardinal]

The fastest growing group joining the Republican party are the college graduates(business, engineering, finance, economics, etc) that are Afro-Americans! Here is a little write up by Anthony B. Bradley of the Action Institute.

PRODUCTIVITY AND THE ICE MAN: UNDERSTANDING OUTSOURCING by Anthony B. Bradley

Hysteria about job losses caused by overseas outsourcing ignores a crucial fact: Americans lose jobs primarily because people develop innovative ways to do things faster, better, and cheaper. In other words, human creativity is a double-edged sword, bringing productivity improvements and, very often, widespread job loss. The good news is that the net result is not fewer jobs, but more jobs--and more productive ones.

Since most job losses are a consequence of men and women cultivating Creation, we should never be surprised to hear that companies are downsizing. Neither should we dismiss the indisputable financial and emotional toll that a mass layoff or shuttered factory can cause individuals. Was the layoff caused by the introduction of a more productive technology, a smarter way to manufacture, or a shift in consumer preferences?

Outsourcing has generated headlines, it is not the chief cause of job losses. Only 300,000 job loses have resulted from outsourcing. Robots have replaced people in all types of assembly. Many of the jobs replaced by outsourcing were dangerous, dirty, and tedious.

Automation, a traditional means of boosting productivity, continues to eliminate jobs right before our eyes. The sectors most affected by automation include construction, manufacturing, retail, and wholesale trade, transportation, information, and food services.

The invention of Freon in 1928 and the introduction of electric refrigerators devastated the ice industry. Until this point, ice was taken form the rivers and ponds, cut into blocks and delivered to isulated storage buildings for summer use. General Motors' Frigidaire "electric ice box" wiped out a whole set of occupations! Who today would want to replace their frost free refrigerator-freezer with an ice box?

During technological transitions, the difficult task is providing the education and training necessary to help people use their gifts and skills in new industries. This raises important questions about the role of education and whether or not limiting students to learning only one skill or trade will help them in the long run.(This is where the liberal public education system has totally failed us, issuing all those sillyology type degrees!-Old Cardinal) Quality education programs will focus on training students in such a way that transitions into new emerging industries will be less costly.

Using other countries' workers as scapegoats(or the Bush administration, for that matter! Old Cardinal) for the fallout from technological change sabotages our prepardness for such change. This type of sabotage leads to misguided policies that impede productivity improvements and innovations--which are the very things that make out lives more comfortable, safer, and healthier.

COMMENTS? COMMENTS? COMMENTS?

[Pudlugger]

Amen:)

[SintonFan]

A MUST READ FOR THOSE WHO ONLY RECEIVE THEIR NEWS FROM THE MAJOR NETWORKS!
THE TRUTH HURTS!

Originally posted by Old Cardinal
The fastest growing group joining the Republican party are the college graduates(business, engineering, finance, economics, etc) that are Afro-Americans! Here is a little write up by Anthony B. Bradley of the Action Institute.

PRODUCTIVITY AND THE ICE MAN: UNDERSTANDING OUTSOURCING by Anthony B. Bradley

Hysteria about job losses caused by overseas outsourcing ignores a crucial fact: Americans lose jobs primarily because people develop innovative ways to do things faster, better, and cheaper. In other words, human creativity is a double-edged sword, bringing productivity improvements and, very often, widespread job loss. The good news is that the net result is not fewer jobs, but more jobs--and more productive ones.

Since most job losses are a consequence of men and women cultivating Creation, we should never be surprised to hear that companies are downsizing. Neither should we dismiss the indisputable financial and emotional toll that a mass layoff or shuttered factory can cause individuals. Was the layoff caused by the introduction of a more productive technology, a smarter way to manufacture, or a shift in consumer preferences?

Outsourcing has generated headlines, it is not the chief cause of job losses. Only 300,000 job loses have resulted from outsourcing. Robots have replaced people in all types of assembly. Many of the jobs replaced by outsourcing were dangerous, dirty, and tedious.

Automation, a traditional means of boosting productivity, continues to eliminate jobs right before our eyes. The sectors most affected by automation include construction, manufacturing, retail, and wholesale trade, transportation, information, and food services.

The invention of Freon in 1928 and the introduction of electric refrigerators devastated the ice industry. Until this point, ice was taken form the rivers and ponds, cut into blocks and delivered to isulated storage buildings for summer use. General Motors' Frigidaire "electric ice box" wiped out a whole set of occupations! Who today would want to replace their frost free refrigerator-freezer with an ice box?

During technological transitions, the difficult task is providing the education and training necessary to help people use their gifts and skills in new industries. This raises important questions about the role of education and whether or not limiting students to learning only one skill or trade will help them in the long run.(This is where the liberal public education system has totally failed us, issuing all those sillyology type degrees!-Old Cardinal) Quality education programs will focus on training students in such a way that transitions into new emerging industries will be less costly.

Using other countries' workers as scapegoats(or the Bush administration, for that matter! Old Cardinal) for the fallout from technological change sabotages our prepardness for such change. This type of sabotage leads to misguided policies that impede productivity improvements and innovations--which are the very things that make out lives more comfortable, safer, and healthier.

COMMENTS? COMMENTS? COMMENTS?

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by spiveyrat

Perhaps the economy isn't good where you are. I'm sure there are 100's of small towns all across the country that could attest to that. But, that doesn't mean that things aren't better elsewhere.

Case in point: You say gas has dropped 4 cents where you are. It has dropped 24 cents here in 2-3 weeks.

[spiveyrat]

Where'd Smash go?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by sinton66
"What I want". Therein lies the problem. It's what people want that causes inflation. People want higher wages for the same amount or less work, longer vacations, more holidays, better insurance benefits, better retirement benefits, more sick days, more paid leaves of absence, yada, yada, yada. They expect the government to pick up more of the tab for everything, more subsidies, more grants, more this, more that(which results in higher taxes). ALL of these things equate to increased production costs for manufacturers and business owners. That's why there is inflation, not corporate greed as liberals suggest. That's why business outsources. What you don't understand that in doing so, they have actually put lots of people in business for themselves. It's cheaper to pay someone contract pricing to do a particular job for you than it is to HIRE someone to do that job. It's because of all the payroll taxes, unemployment insurance, medical/dental benefits and such. Most benefit packages today cost an employer almost as much as an employee's regular salary. EMPLOYEES are the biggest expense in any enterprize. This is the principle the liberals just don't seem to get.
No, what causes inflation is presidents who allow certain companies to gain control of the market so that they can sell a product at whatever price they want to sell it at. Another thing that causes inflation is a large amount of debt that makes our paper money worthless. The more debt, the less powerful our money is. That goes hand in hand with the economy. Bush has chosen his favorites out of the companies and are letting them monopolize the market and set the prices for everything. It's one of the reasons gas is high and goods are higher. My friend is visiting Qatar, and gas is .15 cents a gallon, and there is supposedly a gas shortage? Maybe we should open up the market to solve that. Wait, that would prevent Bush from helping out his big oil corporation friends who donated money to his campaign. Doing that is out of the question. I know that all presidents have accepted money, so I know it sounds rather hipocritical. The difference is, gas wasn't as expensive and it didn't matter as much as it does today. As a country, we cannot survive without gasoline. They know that, and they know they can make large sums of money by controlling the flow of gasoline and petroleum products into the U.S. I really do think openning the market wider than it already is instead of having 4 different gasoline chains control the prices of gas would drop the prices dramatically. Of course, I'm probably wrong, so somebody enlighten the young Democrat. :D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
Case in point: You say gas has dropped 4 cents where you are. It has dropped 24 cents here in 2-3 weeks.
Whoa...it costed $38.00 for 20.115 gallons a few days ago ($1.889 per gallon). How much is it there?

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
Whoa...it costed $38.00 for 20.115 gallons a few days ago ($1.889 per gallon). How much is it there?

Costed? Tell me that was a typo please , that is before you preach more federal funds to public education. LOL:D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by Pudlugger
Costed? Tell me that was a typo please , that is before you preach more federal funds to public education. LOL:D Yeah, I guess I got a little ahead of myself...I'm not used to making up words or misspelling anything. As a correction..."Gas was $38.00 for 20.115 gallons($1.889 per gallon).

[Sans Couth]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
No, what causes inflation is presidents who allow certain companies to gain control of the market so that they can sell a product at whatever price they want to sell it at. Another thing that causes inflation is a large amount of debt that makes our paper money worthless. The more debt, the less powerful our money is. That goes hand in hand with the economy. Bush has chosen his favorites out of the companies and are letting them monopolize the market and set the prices for everything. It's one of the reasons gas is high and goods are higher. My friend is visiting Qatar, and gas is .15 cents a gallon, and there is supposedly a gas shortage? Maybe we should open up the market to solve that. Wait, that would prevent Bush from helping out his big oil corporation friends who donated money to his campaign. Doing that is out of the question. I know that all presidents have accepted money, so I know it sounds rather hipocritical. The difference is, gas wasn't as expensive and it didn't matter as much as it does today. As a country, we cannot survive without gasoline. They know that, and they know they can make large sums of money by controlling the flow of gasoline and petroleum products into the U.S. I really do think openning the market wider than it already is instead of having 4 different gasoline chains control the prices of gas would drop the prices dramatically. Of course, I'm probably wrong, so somebody enlighten the young Democrat. :D

I don't think anyone should debate with you anymore, until you admit that you are two different people. Your Jeckyl and Hyde writing styles are so unsubtle that you should change your nickname to Big Blue Schizophrenic End.

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Schizophrenic people have hallucinations and hear voices. I think I need a better name than that. :rolleyes:

[Sans Couth]

So you don't deny that you are two different people, you just want a better name?

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

No, it has been the same person posting throughout, a 16 year old football player from Rockdale.

[Sans Couth]

I don't believe you.

Big Blue Delinquent End?

[sinton66]

Yeah, right. One of you spells "costed", the other spells "hallucinations" perfectly. I was born during the night, but it wasn't last night.

[PI-fan]

Originally posted by spiveyrat


President Bush cannot control the price of gas. The high prices we are experiencing at the pumps is a simple matter of supply and demand.


Someone should tell Bush to stop making those meetings with the Saudis... the same Saudis that told Bush... 'come fall/Sept prices WILL go down' -in essance a non-issue come election time? :thinking:

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by PI-fan
Someone should tell Bush to stop making those meetings with the Saudis... the same Saudis that told Bush... 'come fall/Sept prices WILL go down' -in essance a non-issue come election time? :thinking:
.
The Saudis told Clinton the same thing. In fact they've told every standing President the same thing since OPEC has been around. They want to keep whatever President in office IN office. They like stability and that is just the way they handle it.

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by PI-fan
.

Someone should tell Bush to stop making those meetings with the Saudis... the same Saudis that told Bush... 'come fall/Sept prices WILL go down' -in essance a non-issue come election time?

It is a supply/demand issue. The economies in Asia, Japan and China particularly are now booming and the demand worldwide for oil is up. The supply is down due to terrorists blowing up the Limon pipeline repeatedly in Venazuela and of course difficulties in Iraq. Plus you have the summer reformulations made necessary by nonstandard state by state air quality controls on top of peak US consumption. The environmental groups have successfully curtailed drilling in ANWAR and offshore preventing increased domestic production [which we would right now be enjoying had the President's energy bill been enacted in 2001]. Couple that with the fact that no new refineries have been built in the US for 20 years [due to EPA, environmental lawsuits, OSHA and the Trial Lawyers] and you can understand why gas prices are up. Only ignoramouses who don't read anything but DNC talking points think it is because of Bush. Grow up.:rolleyes:

[sinton66]

Uhm, Pud, you weren't actually replying to SintonFan's comment, were you? I think you clicked on the wrong quote?

[SintonFan]

.
:)

[Old Cardinal]

There is some real babbling going on here by folks that evidently have never had even a basic course in economics.... I took a lot of economic courses through my lifetime, the last being a course called--Intermediate Theory Economics. It was taught at the Masters Degree level--I was lucky to squeeze out a "B".... Inflation can be simply expressed as "Too much money chasing too few goods!" I realize that is only a 1.0 % explanation on a technically complicated subject: but it's a start.

The reason that there is a gas shortage it: #1 There are plenty of folks with the money to consume more gasoline with the upscale economy we are in. They don't need to drive a MoPed to work; they can drive an SUV. #2 The tree-huggers, Greenpeace nuts and other assorted false-environmentalist have kept us from developing the vast West Coast offshore oil basin, to keep up with our expanding consumption #3 Look on a map sometime at the vast Alaskan frozen tundra that is occupied by a few musk-oz and realize that it is a larger energy potential than most of the middle east! The same nuts that cry about gas prices have created the problem of making us totally at the whelm of the few families controlling the spigot on middle-eastern oil.

A little inflation in and of itself, coupled with assorted medical and technological breakthroughs is not all that bad; if you have a very robust economy. We just may be in the healthist economy ever: low morgage rates, good earning reports by our small businessmen and assorted corporations. Inflation is not a factor (or wage thief) because the government is not just running the press to make more currency and depleting it's value, like the Democrats always do.... The only folks upset are the self-centered tax-suckers that want more and more GIVEN to them-that just don't want to get out and participate in the great American Opportunity...And they will support any Trial Lawyer that will promise to give them more--that's been paid for by other people!

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
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Woah Pudlugger! I don't think you quite understand what I was talking about. Reread what you quoted from me and what I was responding too. :)

No, no SintonFan! I thought I clicked on the quote before yours where the guy was saying it was all about Bush and the Saudi's. I agree with you . Sorry pal.:)

[SintonFan]

I've taken Economics in college and understand the in's and out's of it. In fact I'm in the gas businness myself and have followed market factors myself for years. :p
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Before any try to shoot down my statement above, understand this. The Demos have tried to make the Saudis, and their increased production, an issue in respect to President Bush. I saw fit to debunk any further argument before "it" gets started. The rumblings of a "Saudi conspiracy" with President Bush has been going on for awhile now. It will pick up steam as gas prices fall.:eek:

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by SintonFan
I've taken Economics in college and understand the in's and out's of it. In fact I'm in the gas businness myself and have followed market factors myself for years.
Before any try to shoot down my statement above, understand this. The Demos have tried to make the Saudis, and their increased production, an issue in respect to President Bush. I saw fit to debunk any further argument before "it" gets started. The rumblings of a "Saudi conspiracy" with President Bush has been going on for awhile now. It will pick up steam as gas prices fall.

SintonFan, it was a miscommunication thing see my last post and my edited post before it. We agree actually. Sorry for the confusion.:o

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Originally posted by sinton66
Yeah, right. One of you spells "costed", the other spells "hallucinations" perfectly. I was born during the night, but it wasn't last night.
So you're saying that an honest mistake by me leads to people thinking there are others who post on my screen name? I would have expected these accusations from some of the other users, but from a moderator? You can ask Ranger Mom, I've been talking to her on AIM when I have posted things about politics on here in the past, and I've even spoken to her about them myself. Everyone out there can doubt the fact that only one person posts under my name, but it is the simple truth. I really don't understand why people don't think it is me, and only me who is posting under this name.

[Sans Couth]

Originally posted by BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END
So you're saying that an honest mistake by me leads to people thinking there are others who post on my screen name? I would have expected these accusations from some of the other users, but from a moderator? You can ask Ranger Mom, I've been talking to her on AIM when I have posted things about politics on here in the past, and I've even spoken to her about them myself. Everyone out there can doubt the fact that only one person posts under my name, but it is the simple truth. I really don't understand why people don't think it is me, and only me who is posting under this name.

It is simple.

You have two completely different styles of expression. It is as accessible, barefaced, bright, clear, conclusive, conspicuous, discernible, distinct, distinguishable, evident, explicit, exposed, glaring, in evidence, indisputable, lucid, manifest, noticeable, observable, open, outstanding, overt, palpable, patent, perceivable, perceptible, plain, precise, prominent, pronounced, public, recognizable, self-evident, self-explanatory, straightforward, transparent, unconcealed, undeniable, understandable, undisguised, unmistakable, unsubtle, and visible as the nose on your face.:D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Pudlugger
SintonFan, it was a miscommunication thing see my last post and my edited post before it. We agree actually. Sorry for the confusion.:o
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Thanks. I knew we were on the same page, just different chapters.
;)

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

Yeah, well, when I post about politics, I tend to be a little more serious than when I post on other threads. I still want to have a little fun on this board. How can my nose be transparent?

[Sans Couth]

Your nose is transparent because I can see through it.:D

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Sans Couth
Your nose is transparent because I can see through it.:D
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Any sinus problems we might hear about?:D

[BIG BLUE DEFENSIVE END]

I always wondered why people pointed at me when I had a booger in my nose....they could see it plain as day.

[Old Cardinal]

To Pudlugger and SintonFan: I really like your astute observations and economic comments....I was not referring to you about some of the left-wing generated parrotting on here. Thank you both for bringing sanity to the forefront on a regular basis.:clap:

[PI-fan]

Originally posted by Pud
According to a recent research study for every one job outsourced overseas, two new jobs are created here at home. You see, when ACME Widgets moves its plant overseas, they still need employees here for marketing, accounting sales distribution and so forth. Plus, since they can make more widgets now for less, they earn greater profits, which translates to money in the hands of concumers here, and other companies that supply them or provide products to its employees...so that is why you get a net gain in jobs.


So lets say this manufacturing co. outsources its jobs (to Communist China for example), thus laying off 500 American TAXPAYERS that co. is actually creating 1000 new jobs for Americans?:thinking:
Wow, why don't all the companies do that instead?-virtually elimating the unemployment rate.
How are they making these 'widgets' for less... oh because the workers in the plant earn $1/hr or less?

[SintonFan]

Old Cardinal, I too appreciate your's and pudlugger's opinions on here and all yalls' post. Let me edit my statement a little. You see? This is what I get for not using enough smilies.

[Pudlugger]

Originally posted by PI-fan
So lets say this manufacturing co. outsources its jobs (to Communist China for example), thus laying off 500 American TAXPAYERS that co. is actually creating 1000 new jobs for Americans?:thinking:
Wow, why don't all the companies do that instead?-virtually elimating the unemployment rate.
How are they making these 'widgets' for less... oh because the workers in the plant earn $1/hr or less?

Well many manufacturing companies are doing just that and it is helping our economy. Remember those companies maintain considerable operations at home which employs folks. Also, the profits and salaries, overhead expenses etc. all factor into our economy with job creation a result. You are focusing on only one factor, the lost manufacturing jobs. You can't get a true picture of the net effect without taking into account all the factors such as those I have referred to.

Suppose Kerry gets elected. What do you think would happen if he made it illegal to "outsource" these jobs? Well unless he simultaneously inacted trade barriers and controls ACME Widget would not be competetive and Chang Ho Widget Co. from China would put them out of business. Maybe when you shop for a widget and two are on the self, the ACME made in America for
$15.00 and the other, made in China, for $6 both of equal quality, you would chose the ACME, but you would be a minority. Most shoppers are concerned more with stretching their shopping dollar than such loyalties to American labor.[ Why do you think Walmart is the nation's number one retailer?] So then, if Kerry inacts trade barriers foreign competetors will retaliate. At best goods and services will jump up rapidly in price here at home leading to double digit inflation. Also, since many companies will fail in this business environment unemployment will go up rapidly. Foreign capitol will flee the country as will foreign companies operating here (Nissan, Honda, Deimler-Benz, UBS Warberg, the list is unending). The result of your brain child? A depression that makes the Great Depression look like happy days are here again.:rolleyes:

[JasperDog94]

Well, I'm finally back from Chicago. I know, I know, you all missed me!:D :D

After getting caught up on this thread, all I can say is...right on!!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Pudlugger

Suppose Kerry gets elected. What do you think would happen if he made it illegal to "outsource" these jobs? Well unless he simultaneously inacted trade barriers and controls ACME Widget would not be competetive and Chang Ho Widget Co. from China would put them out of business. Maybe when you shop for a widget and two are on the self, the ACME made in America for
$15.00 and the other, made in China, for $6 both of equal quality, you would chose the ACME, but you would be a minority. Most shoppers are concerned more with stretching their shopping dollar than such loyalties to American labor.[ Why do you think Walmart is the nation's number one retailer?] So then, if Kerry inacts trade barriers foreign competetors will retaliate. At best goods and services will jump up rapidly in price here at home leading to double digit inflation. Also, since many companies will fail in this business environment unemployment will go up rapidly. Foreign capitol will flee the country as will foreign companies operating here (Nissan, Honda, Deimler-Benz, UBS Warberg, the list is unending). The result of your brain child? A depression that makes the Great Depression look like happy days are here again.:rolleyes:
The question is would this be retroactive to include his wife's ketchup company?:eek: :eek: :D :D

[Old Cardinal]

You know, little is mentioned about our selling our technology methodology out on the world market...I bought a little stock in a fine little Company out of San Antonio call Tidelands Oil Co.---symbol TIDE
This Company is doing business with the Premex Oil Co. of Mexico using their savvy to core out some huge caverns in salt domes, build efficient transmission and sulphur scrubbing units and (in Mexico) to store mega-abouts of Natural gas to try to stablize the supply/demand swings that have been a big problem for years down there. Yankee innovativeness and can-do attitiudes have made our engineering technology the envy of the world and the world is willing to pay for our services. Yes, TIDE and a design firm from Germany are going to make some big money on actuating this massive project.
We live and operate in a worldwide economy and must be able to keep the doors of commerce open to be able to sell our goods, technology and services to a vast world economy. Forfitting a little base assembly to a third world country makes sense, for I will assure you they will spend most of their money in buying USA and western products and new "yankee developed" technology.
After close study of the trends several years ago, I bought a high proportion of Oil, Oil Shale, Royalty, Oil Sand, Drilling and Master trust. I did gamble on a number of incipient small developing oil companies. like TIDE--so far so good. High dividend REITs are good but you have to do lots of study before you enter into this minefield. We have got to get the American people on board with an understanding of worldwide commerce development and not let them be influenced by the con man Trial Lawyers and their propaganda media base.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by Sans Couth
It is simple.

You have two completely different styles of expression. It is as accessible, barefaced, bright, clear, conclusive, conspicuous, discernible, distinct, distinguishable, evident, explicit, exposed, glaring, in evidence, indisputable, lucid, manifest, noticeable, observable, open, outstanding, overt, palpable, patent, perceivable, perceptible, plain, precise, prominent, pronounced, public, recognizable, self-evident, self-explanatory, straightforward, transparent, unconcealed, undeniable, understandable, undisguised, unmistakable, unsubtle, and visible as the nose on your face.:D

Someone's been reading their thesarus. :nerd: :D