Where is the World Outrage Now?

[Phil C]

Or is it your ole double standard. Especially in the Arab World and maybe the US media and politicians. They were outraged when photos showed Iraqui prisoner abuse but at least those prisoners are still alive and will probably be given US money and someday see their families. What about the American that just came out on the news that he was beheaded by Arabs (they admitted it too and it was shown in the Arab World in a video). He is dead and his family will never see him alive again. Plus they probably won't get any money out of it either. Come on Arab World? Come on US media and politicans? Where is your outrage now? And if you find it will you be able to keep it and remember? And probably more important Come on America! Where is your outrage? Will you be able to keep it? Will you let the media and politicans make you lose it? Come on American! Where is your outrage?

[3afan]

Video Appears to Show Beheading of American

Tuesday, May 11, 2004

CAIRO, Egypt — A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed the beheading of an American civilian in Iraq, and said the execution was carried out by an Al Qaeda affiliated group to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit — similar to a prisoner's uniform — who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" — "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.

Berg's family said Tuesday they knew their son had been decapitated, but didn't know the details of the killing. When told of the video by an Associated Press reporter, Berg's father, Michael, and his two siblings hugged and cried.

"I knew he was decapitated before. That manner is preferable to a long and torturous death. But I didn't want it to become public," Michael Berg said.

On the Web site, one of the executioners read a statement:

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused."

"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."

The video bore the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American." It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi — a lieutenant of Usama bin Laden — was shown in the video, or was claiming responsibility for ordering the execution.

The Web site on which the video was posted is known as a clearing house for Al Qaeda and Islamic extremist groups' statements and tapes. An audiotape purportedly from bin Laden — which the CIA said was probably authentic — appeared on the same Web site last week.

Western officials say al-Zarqawi, whose real name is Ahmad Fadhil al-Khalayleh, is a lieutenant of bin Laden. The United States has offered $10 million for information leading to the capture or killing of al-Zarqawi, saying he is trying to build a network of foreign militants in Iraq to work for Al Qaeda.

In the video, the speaker threatened both President Bush and Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

"As for you Bush ... expect severe days. You and your soldiers will regret the day you stepped into the land of Iraq," he said. He described Musharraf as "a traitor agent."

The slaying recalled the kidnapping and videotaped beheading of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in 2002 in Pakistan. Four Islamic militants have been convicted of kidnapping Pearl, but seven other suspects — including those who allegedly slit his throat — remain at large.

Suzanne Berg, the mother of the 26-year-old Berg, of West Chester, Pa., said her son was in Iraq as an independent businessman to help rebuild communication antennas. He had been missing since April 9, she said.

"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.

The U.S. military Tuesday said an American civilian was found dead in Baghdad, but did not release his identity. State Department spokeswoman Susan Pittman said she couldn't release the name of the dead American, but said she not aware of more than one civilian found dead in recent days.

The military said there were signs of trauma to the body. Suzanne Berg said she was told her son's death was violent but did not want to discuss details.

Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul.

"He was arrested and held without due process," his father, Michael Berg, told the Daily Local News of West Chester recently. "By the time he got out the whole area was inflamed with violence.

The FBI on March 31 interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated.

The Bergs last heard from their son April 9, when he said he would come home by way of Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait. But by then, hostilities in Iraq had escalated.

Suzanne Berg on Tuesday said she was told her son's body would be transported to Kuwait and then to Dover, Del. She said the family had been trying for weeks to learn where their son was but that federal officials had not been helpful.

"I went through this with them for weeks," she said. "I basically ended up doing most of the investigating myself."

[Rabbit'93]

I'm not even going to try to put into words the way I feel about this.

[CHS_Grad '85]

:mad: And they have to ask why we're over there? This is why... they were doing this to their own people... :foul:

:( My condolances to the Berg Family... my heart breaks for their lose... Drudge Report has a link to the video - but I just can't bring myself to watch... so, out respect for the Berg Family wishes - I won't...

But this still burns my *** :flamingma ...

[Ranger Mom]

I just read this on FOX news....kinda summed it up for me!!


Tuesday, May 11, 2004
By John Moody
I'm sorry to have to tell you this: We are apologizing too much.

Now that President Bush, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and several top officers in our armed forces have apologized for the mistreatment of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib (search) prison, it seems only fair to ask — what is the apology for?

Don't misunderstand. There's a reason to regret what happened and make sure it doesn't occur again.

I just fear that we, as a country and society, are saying sorry with the wrong motivation. The pictures of naked prisoners tethered to leashes, contorted into human pyramids and pinioned to their cell doors are distasteful to us as we sit in our living rooms.

But what if you or I were in that prison, trying not only to guard prisoners, but extract from them information that could save a loved one's life? How heavy-handed might you become if the stakes were personal?

The soldiers and guardsmen who are accused — not yet convicted — of abusing their captives made some questionable decisions. They will probably pay for them with their military careers, their reputations, or in some cases, time behind bars.

It's important, though, not to judge all our servicemen and women by what happened in Abu Ghraib or to judge what happened there by the standards of behavior applied to civilian society.

More than a year after the U.S. invasion deposed Saddam Hussein, Iraq is one of the most dangerous places on earth. Nothing increases the chance of falling victim to that violence more than wearing an American military uniform — the same garb we profess to admire as we thank our troops for keeping us free.

Should we revoke that admiration because some small fraction of our troops took license with others' dignity? It might be worthwhile to try to put ourselves in their combat boots for a moment.

As of this writing, 717 American soldiers, Marines and guardsmen have died trying to secure Iraq's freedom. The cheers with which they were met along Baghdad's streets in April 2003 have been replaced, at least on the surface, with a shower of roadside bombs, improvised explosive devices and hand grenades.

When confronted with violence, our troops react as they are taught. They kill some of their aggressors, wound some, and arrest others.

People who fall into the latter two categories are those who are incarcerated at Abu Ghraib. Many have either killed or tried to kill the comrades, friends or barracks-mates of the troops guarding them.

How gentle could you be with the killer of your best friend? Or someone who you saw cheering that crime?

On March 31, a van of American civilians traveling through Fallujah (search) was set upon by a band of Iraqi thugs. They were there to help the country to its feet.

In gratitude for that work, their vehicle was set on fire, they were dragged from it and hacked to pieces, and their bodies were dragged through the streets and strung from a bridge.

Many TV networks, including Fox News, deemed the pictures too shocking to air. Fox also heavily censored a videotape of torture sessions carried out by Saddam's regime.

In retrospect, that may have been a mistake. Without showing the charred bodies of Americans dangling in ignominy, or the lopped off-arms of justice Saddam-style, how can we judge the pictures we are now clucking over?

Was one worse than the other? Where was the outrage, after Fallujah, from members of Congress and other self-appointed mullahs of morality? Do we expect American soldiers to be morally superior to the people who are trying to kill them, and at the same time win a war in which there are no rules of conduct for one side? Does that somehow smack of ... racism?

Americans are living in a split-screen world of war and wealth. Since 9/11, we have conducted our lives with the nervous knowledge that we can be reached, injured and killed by fanatics who do not know us but wish us dead. For some months now, the reality of terrorism has been seen in other places: Bali, Madrid and day after day after day, Iraq.

Meanwhile, millions tut-tut over the exposed breast of an entertainer on the 50-yard line, willing themselves to ignore the amputated limbs and splattered brain matter of men and women in our nation's service.

Others fret as gasoline prices near 50 percent of what they are in Europe. Fans cry real tears because a sitcom is ending. We shriek with indignation that Iraqi suspects are humiliated, but forget the specter of Fallujah.

We can't have it both ways, I'm sorry to say. See? I'm getting the hang of this apology thing. It's a pity, isn't it?

John Moody is Senior Vice President, Fox News Editorial.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by 3afan
"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."
This is why you can't bargain or reason with these people. The only thing they understand is violence. Forget the fact that Clinton had the opportunity to take down their leader on more than one occasion. You cannot appease these people. And I use the term people loosely because anybody that would do something like that to another human being doesn't deserve to be classified as a person...more like an animal.:mad: :mad:

[spiveyrat]

After reading the news report... Ugh! Just like Rabbit, I don't even know how to put it into words. Let's just say furious would be an understatement. They're saying this is retribution for the treatment of the Iraqis in the prisons. Yeah, they were so humane before that. Remember Danial Pearle? I agree with you Phil. GET A SPINE, AMERICA! We can't afford to be compassionate towards our enemies anymore. It just costs us MORE American lives. The liberals either need to get on board or get the hell out of the way!

[CHS_Grad '85]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
The liberals either need to get on board or get the hell out of the way!
Perfectly stated....:clap:

[SintonFan]

Where is your OUTRAGE America???? Why hasn't the rest of the world expressed outrage over this? Maybe it because some people here and whole nations(Spain to name one) abroad are afraid of those few terrorist. But, we can be OUTRAGED over the humiliation of a few prisoners. It does show that, in a sense, all the compassion in the universe won't buy you anything in this world. WE ARE AT WAR!!!
Our enemy has NO COMPASSION for us. They have the seductive(in their world) ability to turn their cause into a war for goodness? Folks, they are evil's minions in the cloak of the good. They claim to represent goodness but do evil things. Can any one of you understand this(you who have posted here do)?
I do know one thing. This beheading will backfire on those animals. It serves to remind us what we are up against. I have a quiet calm as I type this. I am outraged, but I know there will be repercussions that will undermine those savages' own efforts.
I will look at the video, because such things need to be done in times of war... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[SintonFan]

I challenge anyone to read all of this thread...:clap:

[Green Ranger]

I am trying to figure how to say what I want to say without being kicked off this forum. Like somebody said, we are at war. Even with war there are certain rules that must be followed, some prison gaurds broke those rules. My brother was in Iraq, I know people over there now and every time I read a soilder has dies your heart sinks. The best way I can express myself I think is by what I have heard numerous Coachs tell kids. Do not sink to their level of play, play your own game. Those pictures are not our game, those people need to be benched and need to go about doing what we are use to doing. Being number one and showing them who is boss. Even the best need to admit when we were wrong and we were. It is time to play the way we know how, the captain needs to step up the pressure in my opinion.

[Gasilla]

You're right Sinton, outrage is the only way to explain the feeling. There will be repercussions.

[turbostud]

nuke em all. get it over with.

[Gasilla]

Originally posted by Green Ranger
I am trying to figure how to say what I want to say without being kicked off this forum. Like somebody said, we are at war. Even with war there are certain rules that must be followed, some prison gaurds broke those rules. My brother was in Iraq, I know people over there now and every time I read a soilder has dies your heart sinks. The best way I can express myself I think is by what I have heard numerous Coachs tell kids. Do not sink to their level of play, play your own game. Those pictures are not our game, those people need to be benched and need to go about doing what we are use to doing. Being number one and showing them who is boss. Even the best need to admit when we were wrong and we were. It is time to play the way we know how, the captain needs to step up the pressure in my opinion.
I think everyone here will agree that we wish what we did would not have ocurred, that goes without saying. Aside from that fact, there has to be a price paid for what they have done. I'm not saying we should start cutting off the head of every prisoner we have, but we should stop playing around. We know where there strong holds are. We need to quit with the political correctness and show them what we're all about. We need to take this war by the horns and shove it straight up there ASS!! (sorry for the language)

[District303aPastPlayer]

i can honestly say that no one will feel remorse for the US ever, so long as we go invading countries. Granted im not the most politically educated person in America, but thats just my opinion.

[pakrat]

I'd rather be seen on international television naked than being beheaded. And you know I was the one outraged because CBS didn't care about the welfare of the troops and our nation and put those ugly pictures out there to begin with when a line or two without pictures would suffice.:mad: Staying mad about it too!:mad:

[sahen]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
i can honestly say that no one will feel remorse for the US ever, so long as we go invading countries. Granted im not the most politically educated person in America, but thats just my opinion.
I cant speak for most Americans but I dont think we want other country's having remorse and feeling sorry for us...America is getting tired of handing out freebies and helping people out and then getting stabbed in teh back by them....im not saying Iraq and countries we have invaded are that way, cause i can see where it'd suck to have American troops in your homeland if ur not Ameican, you'd never feel free even if they were doing nothing to u but standing there.....That said thre is many countries we help financially, under the table who are politically against us and take every chance they can to cheap shot us which is a buncha crap....im beginning to think every day it'd be better to become more and more interdependent and just close down our borders and have nothing to do w/ teh rest of the world.....Eventually they will come back begging us to help them and maybe there would be a little bit more respect for the U.S......

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by District303aPastPlayer
i can honestly say that no one will feel remorse for the US ever, so long as we go invading countries. Granted im not the most politically educated person in America, but thats just my opinion.
.
Sorry my friend, we can't afford to worry about what the rest of the world worries about. Goodness, we worry too much about what goes on in our own country!:eek:
WE ARE AT WAR!!!
Such compassion for the 'rest of the world" isn't warranted. They don't seem to care about us, do they????:eek:
Will France take up arms to defend us(we did for them)?
Will Germany take up arms to defend us(we rebuilt their country)?
Will Korea take up arms to defend us(we did for them)?
Will Vietnam take up arms to defend us(we did for them)?
Will Kuwait take up arms to defend us(yes, and they have)?
What is the point??? We have helped other countries become closer to us. In just that act, we have made the world better by being an example. An example the rest of the world doesn't seem to want to follow. Go ahead America, keep it going...
If you want your children to have the same freedoms as you do. Keep it going...
So long as you defend your freedoms!!!
I just don't see much of that going on!:o :o :o

[sinfan75]

Originally posted by turbostud
nuke em all. get it over with.
Now you're talkin:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Old Green]

Originally posted by sinfan75
Now you're talkin:mad: :mad: :mad:

Words can't describe how I feel about it.:mad: :mad: :mad: :flamingma
Nuke em !

[spiveyrat]

Now that I've had a chance to sleep on it, I'm not as mad. I'm down to fuming now. :( :mad: :foul: :flamingma

[sinton66]

One thing is for absolutely certain. We're showing way too much patience with the remaining combattants. Out of concern for ordinary citizens over there, we're being too cautious. That is allowing the homicidal creeps to bring it to us on their own terms.
As in football, the best defense is a strong offense.

[Phil C]

I agree with you 66. We tend or so it seems to be overcautious because we don't want any innocent civilians killed which is noble and of course efforts should be made to avoid it as much as possible. But Ike was realistic because he once said in all wars there are going to be innocent civilians and unfortunately it is unavoidable that some of them will be killed or injured.

[GUNHO]

These people are evil. There answer for everything is killing. They need no motivation to kill...I mean murder.I don't condone what we did to those prisners but a slap on the wrist at this point would be fine with me.If we stay the course until they can govern themselfs and leave (God only knows how long that will be ) it want last.They don't know or want to be free.I hate to say it but it takes a person like Saddam ... a person as evil as they are to control them.When we leave such a person will arise.I don't know the answers....you can't kill them all.

[CHS_Grad '85]

Unfortunaly for us... they see our compassion for innocent civilians as a weekness... they use it against us... cowards seems to nice a words for these people...

Still burns my *** :flamingma

[spiveyrat]

Here's a portion of an editorial I came across this morning. I'm only posting a part of it due to the excerpts which are graphic.

------------------------------------------------
The question may be discomforting, but do these Islamic terrorist fanatics draw encouragement from the constant Democratic attacks on the president and the liberation of the people of Iraq from one of history's most brutal dictators? How could they not? How could these vicious Islamic bastards not draw comfort from Ted Kennedy's comparisons of Iraq with Vietnam? These Islamic fanatics know they're at war. They make no secret of their ambition and intention to destroy America. Do you think they haven't studied our history? How could they not know that America abandoned Vietnam to communist aggression when the going got particularly rough and when the tide of opinion in America turned against the war. Do they not hear the comparison to Vietnam from a leading American politician as nothing less than a prelude to surrender or withdrawal ... a sign of American weakness?
-------------------------------------------------

For the article in it's entirety, go to http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

This article (titled "Do You See Who We're Dealing With Here?") will only be on the site today, 5/12.

[Phil C]

Ted Kennedy - The Hero of Chappaquidick Bay.

[JasperDog94]

Glenn Beck has a great commercial about Ted Kennedy and John Kerry. It's a spoof of Bud Light's "Real American Heroes". If you've heard it, you know just how funny it is...:D :D

[GUNHO]

Spiveyrat

As one politician stated (can't remember who ).The abuse with the prisners shows whats right with America rather than what is wrong with America.Here you are accountable for your actions regardless of who you are.Here your voices is herad without having to worry about bodly harm from someone...well you get my point.
Like I said these people need no motivation to do evil,but our on politicians and the media have flamed this fire.I don't see how they could not fell some shame for their actions....maybe because it is an election year.I for one will not forget come poll time of how they have used this war for their on gain.:mad:

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by GUNHO
I don't see how they could not fell some shame for their actions....maybe because it is an election year.I for one will not forget come poll time of how they have used this war for their on gain.:mad:
It's easy to feel no guilt when you have no morals. When your beliefs and actions are determined by public or world opinion, then you can justify anything.

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
It's easy to feel no guilt when you have no morals. When your beliefs and actions are determined by public or world opinion, then you can justify anything.

(To add to that)... what do the polls say I should say this week???

[GOFOR2]

The freakin gloves need to come off. This man wasnt just beheaded. He was killed with a dull bladed knife. It wasnt like he got guillotined where the death would have been quick and painless.
How can those extremists justify this as a act of retaliation. Those Iraqi P.O.W.s are much better off now than they were during Saddams reign of terror. I am tired of hearing about how those soldiers were mistreated. I dont watch much TV, but when I do that is all I hear or see.
Why are those same media butt wipes not running the stories of those 4 contractors who were burnt and drug across the streets in Iraq 4 weeks ago? Why isnt anyone still up in arms about that? Where the heck is the UN and their whining complaints about injustices on humanity? Where is the rest of the world? It seems that is ok to kill Americans and capture unarmed journalists in a world run by barbarians. This is ridiculous. The only way to rid the world of barbarians is to think and act like them. This fighting terrorism with one hand tied around our back crap isnt gonna work.

[bullfrog_alumni_02]

ill tell your right now, i dont watch the news, or tv or listen to the radio except on my way to the chow hall, but reading these things really gets my blood pumping. i totally agree( as an American Soldier) we are at war. there are no words to describe how i feel when i hear of a soldier dying or being wounded. i feel terrible. i mey not be in iraq, but i am in a place that is just as bad. the ppl of our country really need to realize that they dp have it good. in my own personall opinion we are being way to humane. im not saying we need to go arround beating ppl for info or decapitating them, but a few embarrassing moments in there life or a pistol going off next too there head is only just scare tactics. methods of extracting info w/out causing harm, maybe a few hours/days w/ a hurt ear drum but nothing that would seriously harm them. i know this personally because i qualified w/ an m9 and had no ear plugs, me ears hurt like no tommorrow, but i have better than perfect hearing, better than before i fired the m9. our tactics compared to there tactics, basically "kill all americans" are totally not in the same ball park. i remember some one, green beret saying his coach always taught him to be the better person, and have class. mine taught me the same thing, and i really do try to have the utmost class and respect for others that i can. BUT THIS OS NOT A FOOTBALL GAME. IT IS WAR. i wish and pray for peace in the world as much as the next joe, but its so hard to have peace when things like september 11th or the madrid terrorist attacks happen. except we wont back down. afghanistan is the result of sept 11, iraq is the result of our govt realizing that if we let things go for long enough, they will come to our country, and they will kill our innocent civilians, whom are too wrapped up in hollywood to realize, there is less than 1% of our entire country to keep them out of hamrs way. when i wasin hawaii, i saw a poster that i never really understood the meaning of until i actually saw the way ppl of a third world country live and conduct business. it stated "people of this coutnry sleep peaceably atnight, because rugged men stand ready to do combat on their behalf." less than1 % to keep them safe from whomever invading our country, less than 1 % to die so they dont have to live in a world where they are oppressed for having an opinion. im proud to tears right now for knowing that i am part of that less than 1% who would die so my family can live in a terror free world. in my eyes that is class. and the rest of our country needs to realize this.

disclaimer: these opinions and views are solely that of PFC Henley, Johnathan, A, of A co 125 MI BN, 25 ID L, and not that of the U.S. ARMY.

[CHS_Grad '85]

To PFC Henley, Johnathan, A, of A co 125 MI BN, 25 ID L - aka bullfrog_alumni_02... I don't know about anyone else - as for me & my family - we THANK YOU...

[vet93]

I second that!!! Stay safe...and our prayers are with you.


Originally posted by CHS_Grad '85
To PFC Henley, Johnathan, A, of A co 125 MI BN, 25 ID L - aka bullfrog_alumni_02... I don't know about anyone else - as for me & my family - we THANK YOU...

[mwynn05]

i third that

[sinton66]

I think I see a solution to the problem. When we take these prisoners in from committing an act of war against our soldiers, we have to treat them with dignity and resolve. It's so clear, we need to start sending emails and telegrams to the White House and give them this simple solution:

STOP TAKING PRISONERS!!!!!

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by sinton66
STOP TAKING PRISONERS!!!!!
Shoot to kill...works for me.

[Green Ranger]

Again I am not about to take sides on this but remember that if we start shooting to kill. With that being said things are only going to get worse over there for our friends and loved ones like bullfrog alum. This is an email I got from a dear friend who is over there now:

" Hey, sorry it's been a little while since I last wrote, but it's been extremly busy here. A lot has been going on and I don't have a lot of time to do things. But all is going well, just busy. I'm doing pretty good, in a couple of days I'll hit my two month mark, only four to go. Well I know this is short but I have to go arm up, I'm mobile today so I'll email you a longer one later. Take care and talk to you soon, bye!!"

We are at war! People are going to die, not that I find it funny however we said wouldnt forget things from September 11th. We wouldnt forget Columbine. There is a young soilder who died that went to Greenwood and from what I hear his picture is up near the office. I would be willing to bet half the kids don't even know his name. I would also be willing to bet there are a hand few that dont know who he is. NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!! There is not a day that goes by that is not a gift from GOD. There is not a day that goes by that I dont say a prayer that Melanie (young lady's message above) is over there fighting for me, for US along with Bullfrog. I believe "some" people don't value every minute of everyday, that it takes something like this to kick them back into reality for a week or two. I am sorry for them cause that is my everyday. I live life to it fullest and can't explain the feelings I have to those fighitng for us. How pissed I am those who took pictures with those Iraq prisoners nude and such. My two cents and if I pissed anybody off, I am sorry. This is just how I see things.

[Sans Couth]

Did anyone watch the West Wing tonight?

The Josh Lyman character got mad about a terrorist attack and said something like this.

"We need to kill who did it, then find out who told them to do it and kill them too, and then kill everyone that was happy about the attack."

I know that it was supposed to show emotion getting in the way of good judgement, but sometimes I wonder what other course there is to take.

[sinton66]

I can see taking military prisoners of war, but these people are terrorists, not soldiers. Everytime our guys are attacked, we kill some and arrest some. There is no military info to be gathered here. These people are NOT non-combatants, they are terrorists. Personally, I think they need to die, not go to jail.

[pinecone]

Where is the ourtrage now? There isn't any. The rest of the world is saying the Americans got what they deserved. The Democrats are yapping about the latest prison abuse pictures instead of calling for justice for the murdered American, and the Republicans
are trying to save face about the prison scandal instead of fanning the flames of justifiable outrage over the savage killing of an American. :mad:

[Phil C]

Pine, I can tell you where the outrage is now. The Congressmen are outraged after seeing the pictures of the abused Iraqui prisoners. Among those outraged of course is the Hero of Chappaquidick Bay. And this is much more so than the American who was brutally murdered and beheaded. Is it me or is something wrong with this picture?

[BIG19]

Originally posted by Rabbit'93
I'm not even going to try to put into words the way I feel about this.

I am with you on that one.

[pakrat]

God bless you PFC Jonathan Henley, aka bullfrog_alumni_02!
I/m glad you can read 3Adownlow from Afganistan. Now you know
there are people who appreciate you, pray for you, and love the
**%# out of you.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Sans Couth
Did anyone watch the West Wing tonight?

The Josh Lyman character got mad about a terrorist attack and said something like this.

"We need to kill who did it, then find out who told them to do it and kill them too, and then kill everyone that was happy about the attack."

I know that it was supposed to show emotion getting in the way of good judgement, but sometimes I wonder what other course there is to take.
I can't stand that show. Martin Sheen just needs to go away!:mad: :mad:

[pakrat]

West Wing= Worst Thing

[PhiI C]

A news program just brought out that some of the photos with British brutalizing POWS are fake. I wonder if some of ours are faked or staged. It makes you wonder.

[slpybear the bullfan]

This morning I went to the fitness center before work to get my workout in. As I was on a treadmill I watched the TVs... ABC, NBC, and CBS all three started their 7AM shows with 20 mins of coverage of the prisoner scandal. Lots of folks being interviewed talking about how un-AMerican it is. And how the responsibility falls on the Administration for this incident. There was even good ol NBC STARTING their show with an interview with Ted Kennedy to see what the good Senator had to say. (You can guess)

There was roughly 30 seconds of coverage given to the MURDER of Mr. Berg. On one network the 30 seconds was spent decrying the government for not protecting Mr. Berg. Another network spent their 30 seconds showing President Bush being interviewed and being asked if he felt responsible for Mr. Berg's death.

*sigh*

I HATE THE FREAKING NATIONAL NEWS MEDIA.

If that doesn't show you how far out of whack the media is and what they THINK that THEIR ROLE is then I don't know what will. I am not a conspiracy nut. But I am beginning to feel absolute disgust for the job our media does.

I just pulled my headphones on tighter, puched up some Maroon5 and tried to forget about it.

On a brighter note... I did watch the local Fox broadcast news and they spent about 5 minutes total on the Prison Scandal and the Berg story. And afterwards they ran a special where they mentioned that they were receiving a ton of viewer feedback saying the media was not presenting the many good things that are going on. SO, if viewers send them information they are going to put it into a daily feature on their program to show.

Bravo Channel 4.

[Sans Couth]

Originally posted by JasperDog94
I can't stand that show. Martin Sheen just needs to go away!:mad: :mad:

LOL,

I can't stand Martin Sheen either. However, I do enjoy the show because I think the writers are clever, and it gives me a better perspective of how both sides think. The acting is superb, whether or not I care for Sheen or any of his cronies, I try and get past that so I can enjoy what I believe to be on of the most well written shows on telvision.

I am not saying that I agree with most of it, I am just saying that to me, it is quality entertainment, for the fact that I find it intellectualy stimulating.

[ej2525]

Have any of you seen the video? I just saw it a little while ago!! It made my wife & I sick to see & hear it!! It was so disturbing & just makes me so mad I wish I could get my hands on those who did that!!! :(

[CRHSeagle]

it is one of the most disturbing videos that ive ever seen....theres no words to describe the way i felt after watching the video....

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by Sans Couth
LOL,

I can't stand Martin Sheen either. However, I do enjoy the show because I think the writers are clever, and it gives me a better perspective of how both sides think. The acting is superb, whether or not I care for Sheen or any of his cronies, I try and get past that so I can enjoy what I believe to be on of the most well written shows on telvision.

I am not saying that I agree with most of it, I am just saying that to me, it is quality entertainment, for the fact that I find it intellectualy stimulating.
That's funny. Every time that I've caught any of it I felt dumber for having watched it. I guess I just can't get past Martin. Every time he opens his mouth I just want to yell at the tv and tell him to shut his pie hole. :D

[Tackle75]

I think that in places like Fallujah and other combatant Cities, we need to just kick the media out for at least 50 miles. Then drop a but load of bombs on those cities,

Then Un leash the Marines. No POlitical Restraints, and let them do their job,

This whole thing would be over in a matter of 100 Hours, if the war was handled this way.

If we dont start realizing That THis Can Turn into A Vietnam, then we are doomed to repeat history.

Now I am not saying this is/ or is gonna be a vietnam, but it sure could be, if things arent handled properly and in a hurry.


I know this whole Situation is in God's hands, and things will going accordingly,


And I know God's Man G. Bush is in control right now, I just hope he get his staff together

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by bullfrog_alumni_02
ill tell your right now, i dont watch the news, or tv or listen to the radio except on my way to the chow hall, but reading these things really gets my blood pumping. i totally agree( as an American Soldier) we are at war. there are no words to describe how i feel when i hear of a soldier dying or being wounded. i feel terrible. i mey not be in iraq, but i am in a place that is just as bad. the ppl of our country really need to realize that they dp have it good. in my own personall opinion we are being way to humane. im not saying we need to go arround beating ppl for info or decapitating them, but a few embarrassing moments in there life or a pistol going off next too there head is only just scare tactics. methods of extracting info w/out causing harm, maybe a few hours/days w/ a hurt ear drum but nothing that would seriously harm them. i know this personally because i qualified w/ an m9 and had no ear plugs, me ears hurt like no tommorrow, but i have better than perfect hearing, better than before i fired the m9. our tactics compared to there tactics, basically "kill all americans" are totally not in the same ball park. i remember some one, green beret saying his coach always taught him to be the better person, and have class. mine taught me the same thing, and i really do try to have the utmost class and respect for others that i can. BUT THIS OS NOT A FOOTBALL GAME. IT IS WAR. i wish and pray for peace in the world as much as the next joe, but its so hard to have peace when things like september 11th or the madrid terrorist attacks happen. except we wont back down. afghanistan is the result of sept 11, iraq is the result of our govt realizing that if we let things go for long enough, they will come to our country, and they will kill our innocent civilians, whom are too wrapped up in hollywood to realize, there is less than 1% of our entire country to keep them out of hamrs way. when i wasin hawaii, i saw a poster that i never really understood the meaning of until i actually saw the way ppl of a third world country live and conduct business. it stated "people of this coutnry sleep peaceably atnight, because rugged men stand ready to do combat on their behalf." less than1 % to keep them safe from whomever invading our country, less than 1 % to die so they dont have to live in a world where they are oppressed for having an opinion. im proud to tears right now for knowing that i am part of that less than 1% who would die so my family can live in a terror free world. in my eyes that is class. and the rest of our country needs to realize this.

disclaimer: these opinions and views are solely that of PFC Henley, Johnathan, A, of A co 125 MI BN, 25 ID L, and not that of the U.S. ARMY.
.
HOOAH!! HOOAH!!!!!!
Thanks friend!!!!
pm me if you need ANY help in Texas! I'll do my best for you and your friends too...:) :) :)

[SintonFan]

Originally posted by Tackle75
Now I am not saying this is/ or is gonna be a vietnam, but it sure could be, if things arent handled properly and in a hurry.


I know this whole Situation is in God's hands, and things will going accordingly,


And I know God's Man G. Bush is in control right now, I just hope he get his staff together
.
.
It's funny that we don't hear any of the great things going on in Iraq. It pi$$es me off we don't hear about all the thousands of wonderful things happening there.
Is this a vietnam!?!
It's not! But your evening news wants it to be. I think, the the "national news core" will do anything to defeat George W Bush! They have almost sold their beliefs...oops, sorry, they already have!
.
Yes, after the video(have you seen it??????????? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ) I HAVE NO COMPASIONNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

[spiveyrat]

Originally posted by ej2525
Have any of you seen the video? I just saw it a little while ago!! It made my wife & I sick to see & hear it!! It was so disturbing & just makes me so mad I wish I could get my hands on those who did that!!! :(

I heard it on the way home from work yesterday. I almost had to pull off the road to "get a hold" of myself(and probably should have). Hearing the cries was very disturbing. Hearing the delight of the murderers was stupifying. I've got no compassion for those prisoners we are holding now. They are being held for a REASON and many probably have American blood on their hands. Being in our prisons, they have it made. So what if they had to put underwear on their head or had to remove their clothing? Seems pretty mild to me. And yet, we have a big number of people in our country who are outraged at the prison pics? If they listen or watch the footage, they will know what outrage really is! I personally think that all senators and representatives should be required to view/listen to the footage. They, afterall, represent Amereica and American interest. Then, just maybe the compassion and outrage will be placed where it should. I am mystified at how their hate of a president can coerce them to help our enemy by dividing the country instead of getting together behind the president and showing solidarity. A divided country strengthens the resolve of the enemy.:rolleyes: :confused: :mad: :weeping: :crying: :foul: :crazy: :flamingma

[sinton66]

I, for one do not even WANT to see this video. I'm outraged enough already. Further incitement isn't necessary, and in fact, probably not even possible. Considering what was done on 9-11, how can this one murder shock or surprize anyone?

If we weren't Americans, I suppose we could respond as many have in the past. For every life taken from us, we could take 100 from them. That however, is not the American way. We are compelled to take as many prisoners as possible. As a military tatic, that doesn't even register on the "common sense" scale. Our collective conscience quite often gets in the way of what might be in our own best interests. Why can't people understand that LAW is law and WAR is war. War should never be judged by the same standards.

[Phil C]

You are right 66 and you know Congressmen like Ted are upset because of the high moral character he and his familily have like his nephew William Kennedy Smith. The Hero of Chappaquidick Bay is a tough opponent.

[ej2525]

Sinton66, I do not blame you for not wanting to see the video. Part of me wishes I hadn't now. But, I wanted to see the real deal for myself of what evil we are really fighting against world wide. That video did nothing more than terrify me to think there are people out there that wish nothing more than what happened to N. Berg to every man, woman & child who call themselves Americans. Supporting the War on Terror will never see the end of my support if it lasts until the day I die. As G.W. says "God Bless America".

[spiveyrat]

I just heard something about a large group of prisoners being released from the prison. I think this is a mistake! The terrorists are going to think that their tactics are working. They will think that Berg's murder is what got those prisoners released! This is a highly dangerous situation for other American captives!!!

[Bandera YaYa]

Originally posted by Phil C
Or is it your ole double standard. Especially in the Arab World and maybe the US media and politicians. They were outraged when photos showed Iraqui prisoner abuse but at least those prisoners are still alive and will probably be given US money and someday see their families. What about the American that just came out on the news that he was beheaded by Arabs (they admitted it too and it was shown in the Arab World in a video). He is dead and his family will never see him alive again. Plus they probably won't get any money out of it either. Come on Arab World? Come on US media and politicans? Where is your outrage now? And if you find it will you be able to keep it and remember? And probably more important Come on America! Where is your outrage? Will you be able to keep it? Will you let the media and politicans make you lose it? Come on American! Where is your outrage? Sorry, I'm reading this late.....Yes Phil, I am BEYOND being outraged. You know, if these relatively torchure free pictures can cause Congressional meetings, and Senate hearings, and monopolize our airwaves and our every waking minutes..... what does that say about how we, as Americans, have become so passive and pathetic towards what is true torchure and abuse. Heck, I bet Nick Berg would have taken his picture with panties on his head instead of what he got done to him. Come on America.....stop listening to the media and their out of preportion news making....I mean, a Congressional hearing?????? For some non-life threatning pictures???? If I were President, I'd say "RIGHT ON"!! If I were a parent of any soldier over there, including the ones in the "tragic" pictures, I would be thinking "Gosh darn, seems like the US Government is putting more emphasis on these "horrific' deeds shown in the pictures than taking up for the truely horrendeous killing of our babies by the Iraq's". Yeah, I"M MAD !!! Shame on our government for allowing this to go on!!!! SHAME !!! GET OVER IT!!!!! I'm just sick of hearing about how horrible our guys were!!!!!!!! I support all our troops, even the ones with cameras!!!! More power to you!!! I'm just sorry the pictures got exposed to the public and media...next time, be a little smarter at hiding them!!!

[spiveyrat]

http://www.photodump.com/viewer/spiveyrat/november_win_color.html

[District303aPastPlayer]

i was under the impression that nick berg was a civilian who was captured once and told to not go back to iraq by both his captureres and the United States, but still went back. i never knew he was a soldier.

[Phil C]

Irrelavant district. The Man was an American and taken hostage and murdered and then it was displayed on tv. The punishment sure didn't fit the crime if there was one.

[Rabbit'93]

Spivey that's about right.

He was not a soldier but a civilian contractor working on communications towers. Ther alot of rumors surrounding why he was there.

I'm so ashamed of our congressmen & women..I watched a news program after they viewed "MORE SHOCKING PHOTOS FROM THE IRAQI PRISON ABUSE SCANDAL" . I could not believe the words they were using to describe how they felt. You would think we lined them all up in a row and just started mowing them down with machine gun fire. I don't think abuse is the right word. Humiliation sounds more appropriate. Our leader's need to get their collective crap together. What is more important to them a bunch of Iraqi prisoners or an American son who was murdered. Get it together Washington. I suggest everyone write your congressman/woman and find out where they stand on all of this.

[District303aPastPlayer]

Originally posted by Phil C
Irrelavant district. The Man was an American and taken hostage and murdered and then it was displayed on tv. The punishment sure didn't fit the crime if there was one. from what i understood, he was told do not go back... if you do, we will kill you...

so my only question is why was he there again, after the impending threat.. i understand that htis is a horrible event. and it should not have happened... but the question that needs to be answered is WHO ALLOWED HIM TO GO BACK?

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by spiveyrat
http://www.photodump.com/viewer/spiveyrat/november_win_color.html Unfortunately all too true...:(

[PI-fan]

Originally posted by Bandera YaYa
I support all our troops, even the ones with cameras!!!! More power to you!!! I'm just sorry the pictures got exposed to the public and media...next time, be a little smarter at hiding them!!!

Tips and support of the pictures? :thinking:

You and those soldiers caught have alot in common, moral-wise.

There are hundreds of pictures out there, not just panty wearing ones either.

There are conflicting news regarding that Berg fella, they say he was at some point in custody of the US, then of the Iraqi Police. The parents even sued the US govt to release him!?!? Also, the US govt says it was members of Al Queda that killed him.

[JasperDog94]

Originally posted by PI-fan
... the US govt says it was members of Al Queda that killed him.
The guys on the video said they were with Al Queda.

[spiveyrat]

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/brentbozell/bb20040519.shtml

[JasperDog94]

:( :( :(