Collier-Sharp rankings are up

[Specklebelly]

http://www.collier-sharp.com/

Check it out

[c-town_balla]

Well usually I would say these rankings are the worst (these and the harris). But since we're at 18 they are ok.

[c-town_balla]

Also I found that we are picked to lose in the first round of D1 play-offs to Gatsville. No distrespect to gatseville but they are a little bit young and with-out a few key people. But we'll lose in the second round to Jasper any way

[Chris Hart]

I like where Burnet is ranked at #4, but Kennedale #58 and Bandera #61 get real.

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Big Green Dawg

[BellvilleDude]

these are the best damn rankings yet or atleast for bellville we 15

[Swarm 51]

Originally posted by c-town_balla:
Also I found that we are picked to lose in the first round of D1 play-offs to Gatsville. No distrespect to gatseville but they are a little bit young and with-out a few key people. But we'll lose in the second round to Jasper any way

Am now sure where you obtained your information that the Hornets will be young this year, but that information is wrong. Yes, they lost two allstate linemen to graduation as well as their quarterback, but other than that most of last year's players were sophs and juniors. In fact, one of those in the secondary was a freshman who performed like a three year letterman. No way can this year's team be considered "young." This year's quarterback has a stronger arm that the one the past two years and proved in mop-up last year he is more than equally up to the task of stepping in at the helm for the Hornets. Guess we will find out the third week of football just how good our two teams will be. See ya then. And, I do want to wish the Yoe q/back, Pittman, good luck as I know this is his senior year.

[Old Cardinal]

I was not particularly impressed, in thr top ten you have- Atlanta, Longview Spring Hill,Lindale, and Dangerfield that didn't do much in Div II. I would say there are AT LEAST 25 DIV.I schools that can walk all over any of them. Then there is Burnet with 8-3 record that Sinton will stomp. Next is Elgin with their 4-6 record WOW what a top ten!.....Look at the ratings on the prepetual playoff teams Commerce #25, Perryton #63, Wimberley #77, LaGrange #11, Bridge City #41, Kennedale #58, Sweeny #28, Barber's Hill # 35, TxARK Pleasant Grove #76, Vernon #52, Mexia #67, Splendora #57. Newton, Snyder, Giddings, Sweetwater and a half dozen others were not rated very high. That is just silly to keep rating the low-enrollment Region II schools over good football programs that could outplay them any day of the week!

[This message has been edited by Old Cardinal (edited July 07, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Old Cardinal (edited July 08, 2002).]

[footballgal]

I thought these rankings were terrible, well, at least for Port Isabel as they are picked fourth in district?!?! Behind La Feria (109) Rio Hondo (115), Raymondville at (130)then PI at (140)?!?!?! It's obvious to me, these guys know almost nothing or nothing in this district or area for that matter. They did the same thing last year, I made it into a game, as every week I would compare how far off they were in the point spread. Also how often they were wrong in their predictions in the weekly picks.

[yoefan2002]

with all this talk about jasper we should just give them the state championship and not worry about playing any games has for c town balla shut up in any game any thing can happen and we got to make the playoffs first GO YOE

[etcoach]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal:
I was not particularly impressed, in thr top ten you have- Atlanta, Longview Spring Hill,Lindale, and Dangerfield that didn't do much in Div II. I would say there are AT LEAST 25 DIV.I schools that can walk all over any of them. Then there is Burnet with 8-3 record that Sinton will stomp. Next is Elgin with their 4-6 record WOW what a top ten!.....Look at the ratings on the prepetual playoff teams Commerce #25, Perryton #63, Wimberley #77, LaGrange #11, Bridge City #41, Kennedale #58, Sweeny #28, Barber's Hill # 35, TxARK Pleasant Grove #76, Vernon #52, Mexia #67, Splendora #57. Newton, Snyder, Giddings, Sweetwater and a half dozen others were not rated very high. That is just silly to keep rating the low-enrollment Region II schools over good football programs that could outplay them any day of the week!

[This message has been edited by Old Cardinal (edited July 07, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Old Cardinal (edited July 08, 2002).]

I would like to hear your "at least" 25 teams that could walk all over Daingerfield, Atlanta, and Spring Hill. Obviously, you are not familiar with East Texas football. There are only 13 teams in all of 3A football with more play-off appearances(25) than them. Spring Hill is one of the top up and coming programs. Elgin(10), Kennedale(8), Bridge City and Pleasant Grove with 5 apiece are hardly "perpetual" (maybe you mean perennial)
Play-off teams.

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dance with the one that brung ya!

[Old Cardinal]

Here are just some of the teams that could swamp these little Region II teams, that did nothing last year! An are highly overrated this year!.........They are listed in NO particular order! Wimberley Sweeny Sweetwater Bandera Kennedale Borger Perryton Snyder Bridge City Barbers Hill Navasota Ab. Wylie Pecos Vernon Bridgeport Newton Gonzales Wharton Mathis Bellville Port Isaabel Splendora Cameron Mexia LaGrange Giddings ......... There is no way these Region II teams mentioned could compete with these or a dozen others!

[True94]

Whats up with elgin being ranked 8th??? i think they will be alright but i dont think they are a top 25 school. Anybody have any feedback? Hey c-town baller do you still play and if so whats your name?

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by Old Cardinal:
Here are just some of the teams that could swamp these little Region II teams, that did nothing last year! An are highly overrated this year!.........They are listed in NO particular order! Wimberley Sweeny Sweetwater Bandera Kennedale Borger Perryton Snyder Bridge City Barbers Hill Navasota Ab. Wylie Pecos Vernon Bridgeport Newton Gonzales Wharton Mathis Bellville Port Isaabel Splendora Cameron Mexia LaGrange Giddings ......... There is no way these Region II teams mentioned could compete with these or a dozen others!
Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth(or your keyboard) and remove all doubt, eh Old Card?
J2K

[This message has been edited by Jacket2000 (edited July 08, 2002).]

[yoefan2002]

cameron yoeman have 31 playoff apperance

[Matthew328]

That is some list there Old Card....LOL
I agree collier-sharp's rankings are a bit odd...but some of the schools you had mentioned beating Daingerfield, Atlanta and Spring Hill?? wow...Navasota 0-10 last year...Mexia come on should I bring up their showing against Region 2?? Vernon? will be WAY down this year...losing all the people they lost and then their star running back leaving...they are a year away..Bridgeport is good but I don't think they can compete with D'field or Atlanta or SH..maybe they'll prove me wrong..I could name a few more...but I won't...I think collier-sharp's rankings are partly based on the fact that Region 2 was the strongest region last year...maybe that factored in as well..all I am saying is yes there were some teams that were slighted big time..and some that were overrated...but a lot of these teams that are in the playoffs year in and year out lost a lot of people and teams like SH, Atlanta, Daingerfield, Burnet etc all have a lot of people back from good teams...by the way Spring Hill was 10-2 last year Atlanta was 11-1 last year I'd say those were pretty good years!!

[Jacket2000]

I just noticed that Port Isabel and Splendora were also on this list. Me thinks Old Card is a bit intoxicated this evening.
J2K

[tog]

i think some of you are underestimating elgin and their speed, you should have seen those suckers at the district track meet, with lbr's and ol running FAST

[footballgal]

Originally posted by Jacket2000:
I just noticed that Port Isabel and Splendora were also on this list. Me thinks Old Card is a bit intoxicated this evening.
J2K

What's wrong with him mentioning Port Isabel Jacket? Don't you recall saying you knew nothing about this area, when doing the updates for region IV last season? Dave Campbell mentioned PI as a team to watch...

As far as Splendora I am sorry I don't even know where that is, much less comment what kind of team they have. So I will just leave that alone.

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by footballgal:
What's wrong with him mentioning Port Isabel Jacket? Don't you recall saying you knew nothing about this area, when doing the updates for region IV last season? Dave Campbell mentioned PI as a team to watch...

As far as Splendora I am sorry I don't even know where that is, much less comment what kind of team they have. So I will just leave that alone.



Yes, I do recall saying that. Of course, that was last season. I had an entire season to learn about it.
J2K

[footballgal]

Originally posted by Jacket2000:
Yes, I do recall saying that. Of course, that was last season. I had an entire season to learn about it.
J2K

Things look much different when studying/learning on paper than actually watching a team, as you learn all their tendancies, their competition, & etc. Let's not forget the coach, Coach Staumbaugh is a very hard working coach and expects the same from his players and coaching staff. But, I respect your comments and opinion I guess we'll just have to wait and see, "That's why they play the game".

[Old Cardinal]

You know you folks babble about the two round Region. II, Div II teams, have you ever thought there are 29 OTHER two round teams in the state. An the guy that attack Texarkana Pleasant Grove---Didn't they beat your beloved top ten LINDALE in the second round of Div. I? Splendora went 9-2 losing to Sweeny(16-12) in Div I. and look poised this year for Division II. Navasota returns there whole 4A teams and Coach Dan Burk out of Wimberley, a top flight Texas Coach is now at the helm. Why shouldn't they do good-look at the empirical data: any drop down 4A's beat Division II enrollment type schools around 85% of the time! As to these historical records on Dist. playoffs, they don't mean squat- schools that have competed in 4A at the lowest enrollment levels have a hard time winning those Districts. But, when they drop down into 3A, like a host of them are now doing, they tend to beat the Div. II type schools on a very regular basis. I will stick with my statement that their are a host of other schools that can walk all over the Regions II top 10's that are being touted in the Collier poll.

[BellvilleDude]

Before navasota went 4A they were a powerhouse in 3A, and well now there back in 3A I expect to be a big suprise, hopefully they wont suprise us, 23-3A has a goo district, with Bellville,Sealy,Columbus,Navasota,and hell even Hempstead has a chance with 9 back on each side, to make the playoffs out of this district, stafford i think basketball is thier sport

[sinton66]

Old Cardinal, you make some sense with your last thoughts. Teams that bounce between 3A and 4A usually do pretty well in 3A. This is true even in R4. Rockport-Fulton used to be a good competitor in 3A, but when they stepped up to 4A, they just haven't been able to compete. (Of course, they're competing with Gregory-Portland and Calallen these days). Their last season in 3A, they had an all state linebacker that went on to star at A&M, then was drafted by the Cowboys. (Dat Nuygen).t's hard to build a winning tradition against larger schools. It can be done, but its hard.

[Meat]

Sinton 5th?...Burnet in front of Sinton, cmon

[bigcat8]

Hey Guru.How is your elbow???
Originally posted by tog:
i think some of you are underestimating elgin and their speed, you should have seen those suckers at the district track meet, with lbr's and ol running FAST

[bigcat8]

hey guru. how is your elbow?
Originally posted by tog:
i think some of you are underestimating elgin and their speed, you should have seen those suckers at the district track meet, with lbr's and ol running FAST

[sinton66]

Think about it Meat, that's about where we were last year at the start, you can't expect these folks to respect a South Texas team. I know some south Texas coaches who were predicting a Sinton/Everman final in week six last year. Nobody believed them til it happened. Remember, opinions are like noses, everybody's got one, and they honk it every chance they get. And by the way, I totally agree with you, Collier-Sharpe blew it!

[This message has been edited by sinton66 (edited July 09, 2002).]

[bigcat8]

First of all, Elgin went 6-4 not 4-6.so you must be going by DCTF because that is the only place that has the 4-6 record.Next,is who the district losses were to:Cameron,Giddings, and Taylor who were all pretty good in 2001 with Giddings going to the semifinals.Finally, slow down with that stomp thing because Burnet and Elgin may get beat but not stomped in 2002.If Bridge City would have been in the top ten this wouldn't even had been discussed....
Originally posted by Old Cardinal:
I was not particularly impressed, in thr top ten you have- Atlanta, Longview Spring Hill,Lindale, and Dangerfield that didn't do much in Div II. I would say there are AT LEAST 25 DIV.I schools that can walk all over any of them. Then there is Burnet with 8-3 record that Sinton will stomp. Next is Elgin with their 4-6 record WOW what a top ten!.....Look at the ratings on the prepetual playoff teams Commerce #25, Perryton #63, Wimberley #77, LaGrange #11, Bridge City #41, Kennedale #58, Sweeny #28, Barber's Hill # 35, TxARK Pleasant Grove #76, Vernon #52, Mexia #67, Splendora #57. Newton, Snyder, Giddings, Sweetwater and a half dozen others were not rated very high. That is just silly to keep rating the low-enrollment Region II schools over good football programs that could outplay them any day of the week!

[This message has been edited by Old Cardinal (edited July 07, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Old Cardinal (edited July 08, 2002).]

[Old Cardinal]

Sorry Big Cat 8, I was on a tear, I respectfully do not believe Burnet or Elgin should be in the top ten; however, I do believe they also COULD take Daingerfield, Atlanta, Lindale and Spring Hill, along with the other teams mentioned.

[Chris Hart]

I love to see all you people that are underestimating Burnet,you will all be eating crow by season's end.Burnet will be awesome, just simply awesome.

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Big Green Dawg

[Matthew328]

Old Card you do have a point about some of the Rd 2 Region 2 teams....but the reason why they are highly touted this year was the fact that Region 2 was so strong last year...I don't think you'll argue that last year Region 2 was the strongest region last year...so based on what little I know about the formula collier-sharp uses those teams with a lot back get a lil higher ranking that teams in other regions...thus the reason you see Spring Hill at 2 and Atlanta and Daingerfield high...by the way some of the same thinking goes into my polls..LOL I had Atlanta and SH in my top 10 and D'field was top 15....and I do think Burnet will be good this year...they gave Bellville all they wanted last year and bring back the house...in my opinion thier high ranking is deserved...as for Elgin...well I think they are ranked a lil high but they are a team to keep an eye on...

[SintonFan]

Hey guys, I got something to add about the Collier-Sharp Poll. First they tend to be very inaccurate for the start of the season. I believe their method of using seasonal data to place teams in their poll leads to this lack of early accuracy. As the season goes on (the same for other polls) the accuracy gets better. I'm not sure, but I believe they are heavy on statistics for the ratings. Since 2-a-days haven't even begun, nobody is gonna be all that happy where their team is placed. After all, how many teams have won the state title being ranked No. 1 at the start of the season? Now about Burnet... I think they're gonna be really good. This is one fan of Sinton who won't slight your team. Jeez, yall return almost your whole team. I do think Sinton is gonna be really good, too.

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by footballgal:
Things look much different when studying/learning on paper than actually watching a team, as you learn all their tendancies, their competition, & etc. Let's not forget the coach, Coach Staumbaugh is a very hard working coach and expects the same from his players and coaching staff. But, I respect your comments and opinion I guess we'll just have to wait and see, "That's why they play the game".
Well, I know that PI is by far the class of the RGV. I also know they wouldnt have a prayer against D'field, Atlanta,Marlin or just about any playoff team in region 2 or 3.
J2K


[This message has been edited by Jacket2000 (edited July 10, 2002).]

[footballgal]

Originally posted by Jacket2000:

Originally posted by footballgal:
Things look much different when studying/learning on paper than actually watching a team, as you learn all their tendancies, their competition, & etc. Let's not forget the coach, Coach Staumbaugh is a very hard working coach and expects the same from his players and coaching staff. But, I respect your comments and opinion I guess we'll just have to wait and see, "That's why they play the game".
Well, I know that PI is by far the class of the RGV. I also know they wouldnt have a prayer against D'field, Atlanta,Marlin or just about any playoff team in region 2 or 3.
J2K


[This message has been edited by Jacket2000 (edited July 10, 2002).]

Would you care to elaborate Jacket2000 as of why, you don't think they have a prayer?

[Jacket2000]

The same reason that D'field or Atlanta wouldnt have a prayer against Midland Lee. Some teams are just better, and they just dont play very good football south of the Nueces County line.
J2K

[footballgal]

Originally posted by Jacket2000:
The same reason that D'field or Atlanta wouldnt have a prayer against Midland Lee. Some teams are just better, and they just dont play very good football south of the Nueces County line.
J2K

Again I ask you J2K, would you care to elaborate?

[Jacket2000]

It is no secret that RGV teams do not play very good football. That's just the way it is. Everyone outside of the RGV(and probably most people that do live there) know it. It's easy to go 10-0 against Progresso, Rio Hondo, or San Diego. But then, when they play a Sinton or a La Grange they hang 50 or 60 point on'em. We dont really know what would happen if an RGV team were to play a non-region IV team, b/c they've never made it that far. Thus my assesment, as well as that of most football fans across the state, that the RGV does not play very good football.
J2K

[footballgal]

Originally posted by Jacket2000:
It is no secret that RGV teams do not play very good football. That's just the way it is. Everyone outside of the RGV(and probably most people that do live there) know it. It's easy to go 10-0 against Progresso, Rio Hondo, or San Diego. But then, when they play a Sinton or a La Grange they hang 50 or 60 point on'em. We dont really know what would happen if an RGV team were to play a non-region IV team, b/c they've never made it that far. Thus my assesment, as well as that of most football fans across the state, that the RGV does not play very good football.
J2K

PI has made it to the semi-finals twice before; Last time playing against Sealy when the same season Fred Smith broke Dickerson's school record. 50, 60 points sounds like you are talking about La Feria, from last year. And how about when they played Cuero when they had Clint Finley and PI beat them?

[footballgal]

Originally posted by footballgal:
PI has made it to the semi-finals twice before; Last time playing against Sealy when the same season Fred Smith broke Dickerson's school record. 50, 60 points sounds like you are talking about La Feria, from last year. And how about when they played Cuero when they had Clint Finley and PI beat them? and there was only one Division not how is its now.

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by footballgal:


Ok, that's 3 seasons, one team. I said that PI is the class of the RGV. And yes, I was referring to La Feria last year. Are they not an RGV team.
It seems as thought you are in denial, and you are obviously trying to bring others in to "back you up". But, it's no secret that districts 31 and 32 are the weakest in 3a.
J2K

[Meat]

I'm not underestimating Burnet but to be a high ranked team over someone like Sinton you must first beat someone to that caliber...but I do think yall can be a sleeper...but till then Sinton is the Div.1 finalist

[Matthew328]

OK I don't have anything against the RGV teams...but let's be real....when was the last time an RGV team won state? In any sport in any class...I guarentee you there aren't many...especially in football...in any class...if an RGV team stepped up and was good I am positive they'd get the respect and accolades that they deserve...but until then well they are by far the weakest area in the state...when was the last time an RGV team even played a team from Region 2 or 3?? PI in 94..I was researching on collier-sharp and I got tired of looking for another RGV team that advanced!!! Like J2K said PI is the class of RGV but for them to get statewide respect they'll have to adavance past area which is where most of them lose year after year...

[toby070]

[QUOTE]Then there is Burnet with 8-3 record that Sinton will stomp.

Old Card, Burnet's losses came to a damn good Wimberley team (don't even try to tell me they weren't good last year) and to another very good team in Bellville. They gave both of those teams all they could handle. I wouldn't bet my life on Burnet beating Sinton (I do think they will though) but I'd bet nearly anything that if Burnet is healthy no way will they get STOMPED by Sinton.

Have you seen Burnet play or are you just basing your opinion on the area that they come from? Everyone has a right to an opinion, I'm just curious. Trust me, they are a very good team.

[Old Cardinal]

To Toby: Talked to people that I rely on that have seen both teams play..I have seen Sinton play, Remember you just went one round in the playoffs and then eliminated. Yes Bellville and Wimberley went further before being eliminated. Wimberley, did real well in Division II. There are plenty of 8-3 teams out there that were eliminated by teams that did not progress to the finals, just like you folks. Watch out for Bandera, they went TWO rounds. I think you have a good program just not a top 10 program- because you don't have the playoff game experience.

[sinton66]

Careful Toby, you don't want to be giving those Sinton kids any bulletin board material. They get real fierce when they're mad. (Tee Hee) I think Sinton will be able to give Burnet anything they want to see in a football game, and some things they would wish not to see. Hopefully we'll both make it that far and will be able to find out. Burnet should definitely be strong this year.
Sinton has some work to do finding some linemen, but that is usually not much of a problem for them.

[toby070]

Old Cardinal, just to clarify, I'm not a Burnet supporter, though I do defend them often. I'm a Wimberley fan, and if Burnet was to run up the score against my Texans, I might not even want them to go deep into teh playoffs :-) I did see them vs. Wimberley last year though, and I was very impressed with their talent, and they were a very young team...shoot, their two best players last year, McGee and Shipley, were sophs. I guess I defend them so much because I see the same lack of respect for them this year that I saw for Wimberley last year. It was unfounded then and it's unfounded now.

And Sinton66, I promise I totally respect your team, I personally think Burnet has the stuff to beat you in a very close game, but other than being able to say "I told you so" to the doubters later, I don't have any reason to be upset if y'all beat them.

[footballgal]

Originally posted by footballgal:


I forgot to mention another season just for the record, when PI beat Rockport Fulton- wand Dat Nguyen (now a Dallas Cowboy) was playing for them.

And boy did he play for them, he was punting, Kicking field goals, tackling and even ran the ball. He put on quite a show! You just knew he was special and was going to do great things.

[sinton66]

Hey Toby, I wasn't raggin' ya, I DID include a tee hee. You don't by chance work for Collier-Sharpe do you? Just kidding. Guess I jumped in because of the Burnet fan raggin' on the Bellville guy. So, I know where you're coming from, I tend to defend Bellville a lot too for the same reasons.

[BellvilleDude]

thank you,atleast one team repects even though we lost twice two them in baseball and football http://bbs.3adownlow.com/ubb/frown.gif .

[eye of the tiger]

Well Commerce is rated Number 25 by Collier-Sharp and thats up from last year. We did allright last year even though not thought of well by Collier-Sharp. Played some good games, got lucky in a couple, but it all worked out ok. It is a good thing rankings and ratings dont play the games. Only 49 days and I can't wait. It is going to be a fun year.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Hey FootballGal......need some defending??? Thanks for the link from the RGV Sports site.

Now, down to business. I don't exactly remember who it was that mentioned something about RGV teams making it deep in the playoffs....a history lesson perhaps?

1961 - Donna Redskins, State Champs
1962 - Pharr Bears, State Finalists
1980 - Port Isabel Tarpons, Quarterfinalists (they tied Van Vleck and lost on first downs)
1981 - Port Isabel Tarpons, Semi-Finals (lost to Cameron Yoe 33-14 if memory serves me correctly)
1989 - Harlingen Cardinals, 5A Quarterfinals (lost to eventual state champion Converse Judson, 28-10)
1989 - Edcouch Elsa Yellowjackets - 4A Quarterfinals (Tied Gregory-Portland 21-21 and lost on penetrations)
1990 - Mission Eagles, 5A Semi-Finals (Lost to eventual NATIONAL CHAMPION Aldine Mustangs 53-33)
1990 - Port Isabel Tarpons, 3A Quarterfinals (Lost to Sinton, 21-7)
1994 - Port Isabel Tarpons, 3A Semi-Finals (lost 34-13 to eventual 4-TIME state champions Sealy, and by the way, Port Isabel scored first)
1995 - Harlingen South Hawks - 3rd Round (lost to eventual state champion SA Roosevelt 29-25)
1997 - Edcouch Elsa Yellowjackets - 4A Quarterfinals (lost to perennial state power CC Calallen 28-14)
1999 - Edinburg Bobcats - 5A Div I Semi-Finals (lost to Aldine Eisenhower, but it was a blowout)

As you can see, the Rio Grande Valley has had teams make it very far into the playoffs.

As far as the "rankings" go...and with P.I. in 4th??? What a bunch of bull! Just who are these supposed 3A football gurus anyway? Seems like they are just using previous year's stats, and also stats of returning lettermen to base their rankings.....I personally much preferred the Harris Ratings myself, MUCH more accurate.

[Matthew328]

First off thanks for visiting the site....we hope you like it! But I think you made my point for me...those teams you mentioned were all great teams....but that is 40 years worth of football...I dunno if you left any teams out but if that is all the teams that made deep runs then I think you made the point for us...by the way the site is run by 4 people who are each assigned a region..so if you disagree with someone's picks then we all aren't idiots! LOL I've already been called one for someone else's picks! LOL But I think by the end of the year you'll be surprised at our record picking games and distircts...it was excellent last year...over 70% accuarte...

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by TarponFanInNorthTexas: What a bunch of bull! Just who are these supposed 3A football gurus anyway? Seems like they are just using previous year's stats, and also stats of returning lettermen to base their rankings.[/B]
As opposed to what?

[Owen B]

Originally posted by Jacket2000:
[RE: Seems like they are just using previous year's stats, and also stats of returning lettermen to base their rankings.]

As opposed to what?[/B]

Feelings, woh-oh-oh feelings... http://bbs.3adownlow.com/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Owen B (edited July 13, 2002).]

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by TarponFanInNorthTexas:
Hey FootballGal......need some defending??? Thanks for the link from the RGV Sports site.

Now, down to business. I don't exactly remember who it was that mentioned something about RGV teams making it deep in the playoffs....a history lesson perhaps?

1961 - Donna Redskins, State Champs
1962 - Pharr Bears, State Finalists
1980 - Port Isabel Tarpons, Quarterfinalists (they tied Van Vleck and lost on first downs)
1981 - Port Isabel Tarpons, Semi-Finals (lost to Cameron Yoe 33-14 if memory serves me correctly)
1989 - Harlingen Cardinals, 5A Quarterfinals (lost to eventual state champion Converse Judson, 28-10)
1989 - Edcouch Elsa Yellowjackets - 4A Quarterfinals (Tied Gregory-Portland 21-21 and lost on penetrations)
1990 - Mission Eagles, 5A Semi-Finals (Lost to eventual NATIONAL CHAMPION Aldine Mustangs 53-33)
1990 - Port Isabel Tarpons, 3A Quarterfinals (Lost to Sinton, 21-7)
1994 - Port Isabel Tarpons, 3A Semi-Finals (lost 34-13 to eventual 4-TIME state champions Sealy, and by the way, Port Isabel scored first)
1995 - Harlingen South Hawks - 3rd Round (lost to eventual state champion SA Roosevelt 29-25)
1997 - Edcouch Elsa Yellowjackets - 4A Quarterfinals (lost to perennial state power CC Calallen 28-14)
1999 - Edinburg Bobcats - 5A Div I Semi-Finals (lost to Aldine Eisenhower, but it was a blowout)

As you can see, the Rio Grande Valley has had teams make it very far into the playoffs.

As far as the "rankings" go...and with P.I. in 4th??? What a bunch of bull! Just who are these supposed 3A football gurus anyway? Seems like they are just using previous year's stats, and also stats of returning lettermen to base their rankings.....I personally much preferred the Harris Ratings myself, MUCH more accurate.

As Matt said, that's 40 years and 5 classifications worth of football. How 'bout we do the same thing for DFW, or the Permian Basin, or the Golden Triangle, or the Piney Woods,or the Hill Country, or the Panhandle, or the South Plains, etc...Your "history lesson" would pail in comparison to any of those other areas.
J2K

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

All very good points, Jacket.....but do notice all the teams that are mentioned in the 1990s. (i'm pretty sure I left out some others as well, including some more Port Isabel teams) The frequency of teams from the Rio Grande Valley making it deep into the playoffs has been increasing. It is only a matter of time now before the RGV will begin to gain some respect for their football.

Some of what are considered the best EVER RGV teams (1990 Mission, 1994 Port Isabel, 1989 Harlingen) had the unfortunate experience of bumping into by far the most excellent teams to EVER play in Texas. (1990 Aldine, 1994 Sealy, 1989 Converse Judson) If those 3 teams had played in any other year, those teams were MORE THAN good enough to win state titles. Unfortunately for the Rio Grande Valley, it just seems that whenever they do get a good team, there is always another team (National Champions, 4-Time State Champions, Defending State Champions) that those particular RGV teams end up having to play. It really, and I don't mean to sound so lame, is just horrible luck of the draw.

Oh, and by the way, I don't remember who exactly it was that said everybody from the RGV is hispanic. I am a Rio Grande Valley native, Port Isabel High School class of 1995, (member of Port Isabel's 1994 team) and i'm white.

[Jacket2000]

Originally posted by TarponFanInNorthTexas:
All very good points, Jacket.....but do notice all the teams that are mentioned in the 1990s. (i'm pretty sure I left out some others as well, including some more Port Isabel teams) The frequency of teams from the Rio Grande Valley making it deep into the playoffs has been increasing. It is only a matter of time now before the RGV will begin to gain some respect for their football.

Some of what are considered the best EVER RGV teams (1990 Mission, 1994 Port Isabel, 1989 Harlingen) had the unfortunate experience of bumping into by far the most excellent teams to EVER play in Texas. (1990 Aldine, 1994 Sealy, 1989 Converse Judson) If those 3 teams had played in any other year, those teams were MORE THAN good enough to win state titles. Unfortunately for the Rio Grande Valley, it just seems that whenever they do get a good team, there is always another team (National Champions, 4-Time State Champions, Defending State Champions) that those particular RGV teams end up having to play. It really, and I don't mean to sound so lame, is just horrible luck of the draw.

Oh, and by the way, I don't remember who exactly it was that said everybody from the RGV is hispanic. I am a Rio Grande Valley native, Port Isabel High School class of 1995, (member of Port Isabel's 1994 team) and i'm white.
Someone once said "to be the best you have to beat the best". So, luck of the draw is not a valid argument. If these teams were good enough to win a state title, they would have...period. It just so happened that there were better teams(who DID win a state title). I hope you're not implying that they would have faired better had they played in another region, b/c their location is more than likely the reason they went as far as they did(this also applies to non-RGV teams as well. ie: La Grange, Austin Westlake, etc..).
Oh, and as for the RGV being all hispanic, I dont recall ANYONE saying that.
J2K

[SintonFan]

TFINT, (can I call you that? cuz that's your caps and easier) I thought I saw something like that on one of the RGV websites. I'm refering to the hispanic remark. I've never heard that here. Maybe yall had a visit from a poster who might be from another site, but not here. I feel strongly about this because I've read almost every post for around a year. Yes, I have no life. THAT is what happens when your married with children. Sometimes this is a restfull respite. Anyway, I felt compelled to respond because it would shock me if anyone here had said that. My little bro lives down there (Brownsville) and loves it. Nothing like the best avacodos and the Coca Cola that I had as a child.

[Clyde12]

Oh by the way, theat 89 Harlingen team, lost to Converse Judson 31-9, who in turn lost to Aldine 48-14, who then lost to Odessa Permian 28-14. The 1990 Mission team lost to Aldine 54-21. Aldine's other wins were 30-15 over Beaumont Central, 43-15 over Fort Bend Kempner, 30-36 over Houston Washington, and 27-10 over Arlington Lamar.

I will give the 1994 Port Isabel teams credit, as it may have been the past Rio Grande Valley team in recent history, They lost to Sealy 34-13. Considering the rest of Sealy's wins, this was very respectable.

[bearcat1]

Yes you are correct. the hispanic remarks were made by some idiot on the RGV football board, and have nothing to do whatsoever with this site. I read the entire thread. Some have felt compelled to come here and vent their frustrations with that. But it is misplaced because NOBODY and I repeat NOBODY here would make such outlandish statements. That is what has angered me all along. football gal went to that board and also another one, and requested people come here and 'help' her defend herself (against what I don't know), and some of them apparently thought we here at the downlow made those statements. We did not, and anyone who is so inclined can read through each message on this board to verify that. She has tried to start trouble on this site, unfortunately for her most of our posters are regulars who have been here for years, and know very well what type of things are and are not found on or approved of on this site. Racial slurs and the like are quickly deleted and the responsible parties are banned immediately. Everyone here can vouch for that. I'd like to say to the new RGV area visitors, thank you for visiting with us, and I sincerely hope you will find this an enjoyable and informative site, and visit frequently. You may have been led here under false pretenses, as you will not find the hateful or ugly things here that you've been led to believe are here, but we are still happy you are here and hope you will contribute often with your insight. On that note, I'd like to also say to footballgal...Get a life!
bc


Originally posted by SintonFan:
TFINT, (can I call you that? cuz that's your caps and easier) I thought I saw something like that on one of the RGV websites. I'm refering to the hispanic remark. I've never heard that here. Maybe yall had a visit from a poster who might be from another site, but not here. I feel strongly about this because I've read almost every post for around a year. Yes, I have no life. THAT is what happens when your married with children. Sometimes this is a restfull respite. Anyway, I felt compelled to respond because it would shock me if anyone here had said that. My little bro lives down there (Brownsville) and loves it. Nothing like the best avacodos and the Coca Cola that I had as a child.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Jacket - I wasn't saying that if those teams were in a different region that they would have fared better. I am saying that if those teams were playing in a very average season.....a season with no really dangerous, stellar, excellent teams (there have been a few years like that) those particular RGV teams could have won a state title. I know that it seems like a bunch of bull and stuff, but if you can.....try to imagine yourself living in the RGV (you'd probably not want to do something like that), and having to listen to all these people saying how weak RGV football is and all. You can hopefully understand how frustrating it is when the RGV does have a team rise up, just to have them knocked down by a Judson, or an Aldine, or a Sealy.

And Clyde - Thanks for the clarification on the Harlingen vs. Judson 1989 game. I was badly mistaken and I apologize. I know there was a Harlingen vs. Judson matchup that the score was closer (might have been 1994), and I thought 1989 was it. Or it might have been PSJA vs Judson that same year. They played each other in the 3rd round if I remember correctly and the score was Judson 28, PSJA 25.....could you check up on that if you can? That's maybe where I got the scores confused.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Yes you are correct. the hispanic remarks were made by some idiot on the RGV football board, and have nothing to do whatsoever with this site. I read the entire thread. Some have felt compelled to come here and vent their frustrations with that. But it is misplaced because NOBODY and I repeat NOBODY here would make such outlandish statements. That is what has angered me all along. football gal went to that board and also another one, and requested people come here and 'help' her defend herself (against what I don't know), and some of them apparently thought we here at the downlow made those statements. We did not, and anyone who is so inclined can read through each message on this board to verify that. She has tried to start trouble on this site, unfortunately for her most of our posters are regulars who have been here for years, and know very well what type of things are and are not found on or approved of on this site. Racial slurs and the like are quickly deleted and the responsible parties are banned immediately. Everyone here can vouch for that. I'd like to say to the new RGV area visitors, thank you for visiting with us, and I sincerely hope you will find this an enjoyable and informative site, and visit frequently. You may have been led here under false pretenses, as you will not find the hateful or ugly things here that you've been led to believe are here, but we are still happy you are here and hope you will contribute often with your insight. On that note, I'd like to also say to footballgal...Get a life!


Bearkat (Aledo, right???) Thanks for the clarification on that. Seems like I got all riled up for nothing. Dang her, ah well, I know her, she's ok. She's just a big HS football fan, and she loves her Port Isabel Tarpons. It just that when she sees someone or something that disrespects the RGV, considering that Port Isabel IS in fact, a part of the RGV, she's going to defend it no matter what.

I am glad, however, that the Port Isabel Tarpons seem to be a very well respected team on this site.

I am a former Port Isabel Tarpon, and it means a lot to see the respect on here. We knew that people knew about us, and we were a respected team. We just didn't know the level of respect. I know now......

As far as this season goes, all I have to say is this........

The Dark Age of Port Isabel Football
is now past
They are now ready to go out
and beat those that cannot last.
Here comes the Toast of the Texas Gulf Coast
and dammit they have reason to boast.

[footballgal]

TIME OUT.... (Have to warn you this will be long) I wasn’t going to respond or look at the site anytime this weekend. But I couldn't resist its human nature to be curious. I had to respond only to set things straight since things have gotten twisted and messed up. I don't even know where to begin I am finding it hard what words to use or should I say express myself, because I am afraid everything will get twisted around! First I have to say what I wanted to say yesterday to Bearcat1, first I am sorry if you felt insulted/offended that was definitely not my intentions, if you go back and re-read my post I said that initially I FELT that way that doesn't mean that I still did, that is just how I was made to feel whether or not my feeling were warranted or not, that's just how I felt at the time. I myself at the time felt personally insulted and offended, maybe I took it personally and I shouldn't have.(bearcat1 I know how hard is is to create then maintain it, especially when you don't get cooperation with info that you need, as I myself have created and maintained, to only have to stop because I didn't get the info I needed on a timely manner and because I do have a life , since I have a teenage boy and a 7 year old daughter, husband and a full time job. But anyhow like someone said maybe I overreacted, but one thing for sure my posting of this website to the RGV forum had nothing to do with what I am reading on these last posts. I would NEVER, NEVER intentionally do something so terrible as to support or be part of any kind of thing that is being suggested. What is being implied is total contradiction of what I believe in, thus if it were true I would be a hypocrite.

Tarpon1994, no I don't need any defending, but thanks anyways. Now I see why everybody THINKS I was trying to do and hopefully I have set things straight, because even as one of the biggest Tarpon fans I would never resort to such terrible tactics, just ask Gually Gonzalez, he knows I would not do such a thing as what is being speculated. And no one ever said anything about RGV being mostly Hispanic, you might have been thinking the same thing that maybe I was of what Jacket posted, after reading that other posting from someone not from the RGV. So, Jacket for thinking that you might say or think the same way even for even for a minute, I apologize. Again, I repeat I was just trying to get the local boards going, BUT about how people thought of RGV football to get them motivated to play harder and obviously it was a very bad move since everything go so messed up and twisted. Because, now I see what some people might think were my intentions which I sincerely apologize if I offended ANYONE, with anything I said that might have been taken out of context or the wrong way. If anyone wants a personal apology just email me and I will oblige. Cablegal2002@aol.com
I know I forgot to say a lot of things I wanted to say or in the way I wanted to say it. But, since I am not an eloquent speaker nor writer, I am afraid I will still have not gotten my point across.

I'll be around only for a few more days before I have to go to the hospital for surgery, but have faith that everything will turn out fine and be around to visit this and other website afterwards for the region IV updates. All, do me a favor just one, PLEASE let's just move on to what this site is all about 3A high school football!
Thank you!

Go Tarpons Go!
Go Fight Win!


[This message has been edited by footballgal (edited July 14, 2002).]

[SintonFan]

footballgal, no apology needed. I felt we had already buried the axe. I understand you were referring to others, but I just wanted to clarify too.

[Matthew328]

Ok I think this thread had run its course..footballgal you are right lets talk football!