Today is a dark day for Texas High School Football

[Jacket2000]

AUSTIN - Under certain provisions, two non-public schools may apply for membership in the University Interscholastic League beginning with the 2003-04 school year. The Legislative Council of the UIL voted Monday in favor of amending the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules to allow non-public schools to apply for UIL membership in the largest conference (currently conference 5A).

The amendment to the Constitution will allow non-public schools to apply for UIL membership in the largest conference unless their right to participate has been suspended or revoked for violating rules or codes by another League similar to the UIL. Additionally, the schools must meet the following conditions:

Are accredited by the Texas Private School Accreditation Commission.
Do not qualify for membership in any other organization similar to the UIL.
Meet the definition of a high school as described in the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules.
The amendment is contingent upon a satisfactory settlement of current litigation regarding this matter, and approval by the Commissioner of Education. A non-public school could be assigned to a UIL district beginning with the 2003-04 school year in all activities with the exception of varsity football. Due to reclassification and realignment policies, non-public schools will not be assigned to a varsity football district until the next realignment period in the 2004-05 school year.

"The Council was reluctant to admit any non-public school. However, it became apparent that this was the best of our options for the UIL," said UIL Legislative Council Chairman Don Hendrix.

Prior to this amendment, the UIL's membership has consisted of Texas public schools, including charter schools.

Currently, the only two non-public schools in Texas that meet the criteria of the above amendment are Jesuit College Preparatory School of Dallas and Strake Jesuit College Preparatory School of Houston, which are not eligible for membership in the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools.

"The Council took action at this time because of current litigation and legislation," said UIL Director Dr. Bill Farney. "The amendment, upon approval by the Commissioner of Education, would allow all students in Texas a chance to participate in a recognized association - an opportunity they do not currently have."

I always feared this day would come, but I never actually thought it would happen. Mark my words, this will have some major reprocusions. Remember where you heard it first.
J2K

[bccards]

I just posted that about 45 minutes ago, so why did you delete it?

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: bccards ]</small>

[Jacket2000]

I didnt delete it. I never saw it.
J2K

[Matthew328]

Indeed it is...I think the UIL has opened up a Pandora's Box...I urge anyone who is against this decision to contact the UIL and voice your displesure or contact your state represenative..

[slpybear the bullfan]

DOOM!!!!!!!!!

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!

APOCALYPSE!!!!!!

[big daddy russ]

Just look at the way things are up in New York. Do you ever hear about public schools and their athletic programs? It's always Christ the King High and all the others...

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

So, are we saying that these private schools will recriut away all the better talent from the public schools??? Isn't that against UIL rules? And if these private schools became members of the UIL wouldn't they have to adhere to those rules?

[Matthew328]

Private schools can recruit because they don't have any sort of attendence zone...private schools in other states have recruited better talent away from public schools..look at the school LeBron James plays for...or how bout Oak Hill Academy in Virginia which is basically for basketball...or in football how bout Evangel Christian in Lousiana or De LaSalle in California...so no private schools won't have to abide by those rules...if they do get a "transer" he would have to sit out one year..but that is all...

[PPHSfan]

The only good side would be that very talented 7th and 8th graders could recieve scholarships to private schools that their parents would not be able to otherwise afford. The problem is that with this minor good point, the cons heavily outway the pros. This could potentially destroy Texas Highschool Football as we know it.

[spiveyrat]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Get a grip, guys.

[PPHSfan]

spiveyrat:
I don't see anything wrong with it. Get a grip, guys.When all of the cream of the crop talent in the entire state is going to the richest private school, and it becomes a joke like the private schools in California....then you will understand.

[mwynn05]

thats not good at least it will not affect 3a at whole lot

[Jacket2000]

No, it'll affect all public high schools in Texas. There are several private schools with 3a enrollment numbers. Besides, you'll suddenly see many of your most talented players playing at private schools. This will be bad for everyone.
J2K

[X21AAAPlayer]

Well I wasnt quite sure what it would do to the athletic programs but taking talent away from teams? Geesh if it's that bad let's start a petition against it. Im sure with enough support we could convince the texas government to overturn the decision. What do you think?

[Jacket2000]

I already sent an email to the UIL. They thanked me for my courtesy(apparently, many people havent been as nice as I was)and explained how they really had no choice,which I believe. They said that the state was about to force them to let them in, so instead of being forced to do it, they wanted it done on their own terms. Also, if you read the fine print, it says that private schools who qualify may APPLY to join the UIL. Of course, if the UIL doesnt let them in, the legislature will force them to, but it's a nice thought. Either way, Im affraid that this may be the end of Texas High School Football as we know it.
J2K

<small>[ January 14, 2003, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: Jacket2000 ]</small>

[Fahq07]

well i kinda like that idea but now they have teams like Shreveport Evangel that recruit and win state every year

[exbccards76'smom]

We only have 1 high school that would really benefit and that is Kelly. They always go to the playoffs in their division.

[Jacket2000]

No, there's several privates in the area; St. Thomas, St. Pius X, Concordia Lutherian, St. John's, Kinkaid,Kelly, and of course, Strake. And those are just the biggest and most prestigious.
J2K

[big daddy russ]

Don't forget the private schools that pop up out of the woodworks. This kind of stuff happens in the other states quite often. A small private school will open up and recruit a whole crop kids who would be All-district in 5A to play on a 2A or a 3A team. And to top it off they'll take the best player off of your team, just twisting the knife in your back. They always get them by promising these kids they'll get to travel all over the nation... along with the fact that they're almost guaranteed some nice jewelry at the end of the season, playing in 3A or 2A or whatever.
Unfortunately, now that these floodgates are open, they can't be stopped. After a few years and a few NBA players, a couple of these private schools will get bigtime recognition and their budgets will boom thanks to the endorsements and the fan following. Once the UIL finally decides that these schools operate more like colleges than public high schools, they'll try to shut the doors. But thanks to all the big business and all the other private schools that have popped up, they'll be able to have a league of their own. That's what happened at Oak Hill Academy in Mouth of Wilson, VA. They no longer have a conference, they merely play for that USA Today top ranking. They play the Detroit Country Day High Schools (Chris Webber, Shane Battier), the New York Christ the Kings (Lamar Odom, Speedy Claxton, Erick Barkley), the Compton Dominguez's (Tyson Chandler), the Farragut Academy's (Kevin Garnett), and the St. Vincent/St. Mary's (LeBron James).
Recognize any of those names?
Get used to it because now we can't get rid of it.

Here's a bit of trivia for everyone out there.
Q: Since 1995, when Kevin Garnett opted to make the jump from high school to the NBA, at least one high schooler per year has been drafted. Of the 17 players who have made that jump since '95, how many have come from public schools and how many from private schools?

[Old Green]

It is sad that the UIL did not put up much of a fight on this issue.
My question is why didn't the two Jesuit school sue TAPPS or SPC. That is their league that said they couldn,t participate because of their large enrollments.
If it was only going to be these two schools and they abided by UIL rules of attendence, then I could live with that. But, as Jacket said there are smaller schools all over the state that would soon want to Join the UIL and then there is the possibility of new schools popping up just for sports by a few of these so called conservatives with their closed minded mentally and me first attitude who have been trying to destroy the public school systems for years. I have worked for 25 years with people with this kind of attitude who have public said they would like to do away with sports at Cuero high school. One even was going to run for a seat on the board with that agenda in mind. What's so bad they are transplants from other states who don't even care about our traditons.

I'm sorry if I sound so negative in my post, but this is a sore point with me .

I can see it now, they will use the travel excuse then apply for admittance.

[spiveyrat]

PPHSfan:

spiveyrat:
I don't see anything wrong with it. Get a grip, guys.When all of the cream of the crop talent in the entire state is going to the richest private school, and it becomes a joke like the private schools in California....then you will understand.Who says ALL the cream of the crop talent will be going to these schools? Going to private school is very expensive and I think that it is and still will be a big deterrant (or obstacle) for most families. Being wealthy has nothing to do with your level of athletic talent (unless, of course, you're a professional athlete). Sure you'll have a few who will change schools now because they can get their kid into a better program. But I think those cases will be pretty sporadic.

<small>[ January 15, 2003, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: spiveyrat ]</small>

[spiveyrat]

Jacket2000:
No, there's several privates in the area; St. Thomas, St. Pius X, Concordia Lutherian, St. John's, Kinkaid,Kelly, and of course, Strake. And those are just the biggest and most prestigious.
J2KI believe the majority of these you are speaking of are in Houston. Kelly is in Beaumont. I seriously doubt anyone outside of Houston or it's suburban area would drive 70-100 miles (or more) to take their kids to school or let their kid drive that sort of distance every day.

<small>[ January 15, 2003, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: spiveyrat ]</small>

[PPHSfan]

spiveyrat:

PPHSfan:

spiveyrat:
I don't see anything wrong with it. Get a grip, guys.When all of the cream of the crop talent in the entire state is going to the richest private school, and it becomes a joke like the private schools in California....then you will understand.Who says ALL the cream of the crop talent will be going to these schools? Going to private school is very expensive and I think that it is and still will be a big deterrant (or obstacle) for most families. Being wealthy has nothing to do with your level of athletic talent (unless, of course, you're a professional athlete). Sure you'll have a few who will change schools now because they can get their kid into a better program. But I think those cases will be pretty sporadic.Spivey,

Private schools can give away as many "scholarships" as they see fit to kids that cannot "afford" to pay their tuition. And they can give these "scholarships" for any reason they see fit. Please don't think that there will be no corruption in the ranks, because I promise you there will be.

[Matthew328]

Exactly PPHSFan...private schools can give a schlolarship to whomever they see fit....heck some private schools do nation wide...yes nation wide recruiting..Kevin Garnett was an example...he was attending school in S Carolina and ended up being spotted at a summer camp and went to a private school in Chicago...Tracy McGrady was attending high school in Florida and ended up at Mt Zion in S Carolina where the enrollment of the school was 12...yes 12, the 12 guys on the basketball team...Oak Hill in Virginia recruits nation wide...DeLaSalle in California recruits from all over S California..Evangel Christain in Shreveport recruits most of Lousiana..do you need any more examples??

[District303aPastPlayer]

IT wouldnt surprise me if we saw a private school state champ in about 3 years. Sad but true.

[spiveyrat]

Private schools require tuition to function. Usually lots of tuition. These schools can't afford to just give away the service they provide. Just like any other business that provides a service or product, they can't afford to just give away their product. That would be counter-productive. And schools provide a payroll, benefits, and incur business expenses just like any other business does. I understand that there will be scholarships given. But, I cannot believe that the schools will give them to an entire football team... or even half of it. And yes, I believe there will be corruption. There's bad apples in every bunch. But, I think UIL is smart enough to put safeguards in place before this is implemented.

[Matthew328]

You make a decent point spiveyrat....BUT if all these other schools do it who is to say a private school in Texas can't do it? All it takes is one or two schools bent on winning to do this...I truly hope for the sake of Texas High School Football this works and the Jesuit schools are the only two that get in...I don't think either school would do such a thing..it is the others that could potentially get in that worry me...

[big daddy russ]

Spivey, St. Vincent-St. Mary's has been broadcast on national television what, twice this year already? Can you imagine the ad dollars rolling in? All of their games are always sold out and they have a sneaker deal with Adidas. Sorry bud, they don't require just tuition to function. I read a report last year on NBAdraft.net (don't know which website it was pulled from), but the money that LeBron James alone brought into that school tripled the expenses of the entire athletic department for the Irish. Just imagine what he's doing this year. Like Matt said, for all we know this kind of stuff may not happen here in Texas. I like to believe in this great state, but there's always someone out there looking for a buck. Let's just hope that they don't get their hands on our game.

[Old Green]

If we all think that the two Jesuit schools will be the only privates admitted then the UIL is mistaken.

Comments on the Private School board seem to indicate that some of them have on their minds to ask for admittance.

Here's a link to that forum.

http://pub18.ezboard.com/fprivateschoolfootball 2000frm17

[aamove]

The same thing that is happening in Texas happened in Michigan several years ago. Public and Private Schools were competing head to head. They had the same basic rules, that the students had to live within a certain "school boundary". Some of the Private Schools would actually hire a kid's parents, set them up in an apartment and then get the kid in sports. Every year it would be the same team winning in the lower classifications. The private schools have the money and the backing to do whatever they want. The powers that be in Michigan saw that the system was flawed and now they separate the private and public schools in the playoff system.

[sinton66]

The most likely scenario is that this will cause the UIL to tighten their rules and regulations for everybody. That may not necessarily be a bad thing, depending on what is done and how they do it. The State is on the verge of sharing public tax money with private schools also. "Vouchers" have been talked about for years. Invasion into high school athletics could be the least of our worries.

[fred grunden]

spiveyrat:

PPHSfan:

spiveyrat:
I don't see anything wrong with it. Get a grip, guys.When all of the cream of the crop talent in the entire state is going to the richest private school, and it becomes a joke like the private schools in California....then you will understand.Who says ALL the cream of the crop talent will be going to these schools? Going to private school is very expensive and I think that it is and still will be a big deterrant (or obstacle) for most families. Being wealthy has nothing to do with your level of athletic talent (unless, of course, you're a professional athlete). Sure you'll have a few who will change schools now because they can get their kid into a better program. But I think those cases will be pretty sporadic.Spiveyrat, Do you remember the Achariyakosol boys? They lived in Jasper but went to Kelly in Beaumont for awhile. Brendon later played football for Jasper. I remember the 1980's when we regularly played Houston Strake Jesuit and beat them like a drum. The score in 1983 when my son played varsity was Jasper 40, Strake 0. When we played them this year I thought we might see a similar game. Didn't happen. Jasper was big in a few positions but Strake was big everywhere. They were big and fast. We had to play without Ricky Mitchell at QB, didn't have our passing game and got beat. Later I heard they had recruiting violations and couldn't compete in the parochial school league.

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: fred grunden ]</small>

[repeat2002]

I understand everyone's arguments about recruiting and such, but the way I understand what the UIL approved with the two schools (I know there will be others) is that they would have to create some type of attendance zone. That being the case, then if an athlete transfers in to that school he would have to sit out the required year from competition. I don't know a lot of top notch athletes that would sacrifice a year just to go to school there. There may be some that will transfer there when they are young, but they would probably (because they could already afford it) do that anyway. Most of the examples I am reading about here are of athletes who have transferred to a school just for that final year for more exposure. I don't think that this is good for the "public schools" of Texas, but I think that it is inevitable and the UIL wants to approve it on the front end rather than on the back end and be forced not only to allow it but possibly being forced to do so under conditions that may not want. Therefore I think that they will put some things in place that will attempt to curtail some of these "advantages" that the private schools may have.

[repeat2002]

I understand everyone's arguments about recruiting and such, but the way I understand what the UIL approved with the two schools (I know there will be others) is that they would have to create some type of attendance zone. That being the case, then if an athlete transfers in to that school he would have to sit out the required year from competition. I don't know a lot of top notch athletes that would sacrifice a year just to go to school there. There may be some that will transfer there when they are young, but they would probably (because they could already afford it) do that anyway. Most of the examples I am reading about here are of athletes who have transferred to a school just for that final year for more exposure. I don't think that this is good for the "public schools" of Texas, but I think that it is inevitable and the UIL wants to approve it on the front end rather than on the back end and be forced not only to allow it but possibly being forced to do so under conditions that may not want. Therefore I think that they will put some things in place that will attempt to curtail some of these "advantages" that the private schools may have.

[spiveyrat]

Yeah, Fred, I remember 'em. And I didn't know that. No wonder they "disappeared". But, I'll bet you'd be hard-pressed to come up with another example of someone driving that far to go to school. It's neither practical nor common (of which the commonality is proportional to the practicality). Sure, some will and do make the drive. But it won't be wide-spread.

[Old Cardinal]

There is another issue on the horizon, The people that are payers of school taxes, yet by Texas law, legally "Home School" their children are getting suits together. They want their home schooled children to be allowed to play sports in the geographic school district in which they reside- and pay school taxes. Home schooling is on the rise among the children of technically trained College graduates. They claim the decline in standards of Education Degrees are the culprit that has caused the decline in achievement levels of HS graduates. Colleges are compensating in "giving" Degrees in bird watching type studies, according to their Lawyer's arguments. Some think that public schools have brought this problem on themselves because the decline in education standards of newer teachers allow for a few unqualified folks to enter the payroll, get tenure, and just milk the taxpayers.

[big daddy russ]

Repeat, I understand your point-of-view, but you also have to remember that the zoning of schools isn't feasable in many cases. In Corpus Christi, Ray High School is only about two blocks down the road from Incarnate Word Academy. There's already zoning conflicts all over the place in that city, and this would just put a huge logjam in C.C., along with many other cities who have the same situation.
Another thing you must consider is that there is a reason parents pay to send their kids to a private school... the school offers a better education, or a stronger religious base, or better opportunities for their kids. The state can't just take that privelege away from the parents.
Better opportunities in most cases means that their kid has a better chance at getting more scholarships from the school, religious affiliation, etc. But for some kids, especially up north, those opportunities are centered around getting seen by college scouts.
If the state zones off just private schools from one another (i.e. Private school A gets the west side of town and private school B gets the east side), the student would merely have to claim that his religious beliefs don't fall in line with that particular school and that he wants to transfer to a school which better suits him.
I just don't see the UIL being able to regulate this. No other state has really been able to control it when the schools get money hungry or starry-eyed about the recognition, and I can't see it being regulated by the UIL either.

[southern_thunder]

Correct me if I am wrong but didnt the guidelines for admittance to the UIL state that any private school that asks to become part of the UIL must participate in the largest classification of the UIL. To me that means regardless of the private schools enrollment.

But what kills me is the reason that these people for wanting to gain entrance to the UILand that is that they feel their kids are being denied the right to participate. And that is just crap, if they want their kids to participate all they have to do is put them in public schools. They are not being denied anything. They just wnat ot have their cake and to eat it too.