Pleasant Grove (5-0) at Gilmer (4-1)

[waterboy]

It don't get no bigger than this as a district opener. Pleasant Grove looks like the real deal, and has been spanking everybody they play. Can the Buckeyes protect their house, or will the Hawks be too much?

I think turnovers will be the key. If the Buckeyes don't turn the ball over more than a couple of times, cut down on penalties, and can get a few stops, they win. If not, the Hawks will be too much.

Can somebody please add a poll? I didn't see that option when entering.

[slingshot]

Gilmer until somebody proves me wrong--If you want to be the man you got to beat the man...

[briandumith*]

Gilmer until somebody proves me wrong--If you want to be the man you got to beat the man...

agreed

[waterboy]

I agree with both of y'all. I think Pleasant Grove might just have the team this year from the looks of it. I would still give Gilmer the slight edge, but they will have to be well prepared, and execute accordingly. I have been impressed with what the Hawk defense has done, and their offense looks very efficient, too.

The Buckeyes have had a propensity to turn the ball over a LOT. If they can start getting that corrected, I think they be a tough out for anybody. The Black Flag defense will certainly have their hands full with the Hawk's massive O-line. It's simple, really, if the Buckeyes can avoid having too many turnovers, and the Black Flag defense can get some critical stops, the Buckeyes will win.

[Celina8]

Gilmer wins this one just because that is all Gilmer ever does, and that is win! Pleasant Grove has a great team and probably the second best in all of Region II but unfortunately they are playing the best in Region II.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Hawks can win this game if they force turnovers. They may not even have to force them. Gilmer is very prone to turning the ball over this season. Bux don't have the defense to stay in games the way they did in 2015 when they came from way behind to edge out PG in bi-district.

[Celina8]

I am not sure this game even matters as the real showdown will be when these two play each other in the Quarter Final match up later on in the playoffs.

[WOS87]

Reset and merged to add a poll

[griff]

I agree with both of y'all. I think Pleasant Grove might just have the team this year from the looks of it. I would still give Gilmer the slight edge, but they will have to be well prepared, and execute accordingly. I have been impressed with what the Hawk defense has done, and their offense looks very efficient, too.

The Buckeyes have had a propensity to turn the ball over a LOT. If they can start getting that corrected, I think they be a tough out for anybody. The Black Flag defense will certainly have their hands full with the Hawk's massive O-line. It's simple, really, if the Buckeyes can avoid having too many turnovers, and the Black Flag defense can get some critical stops, the Buckeyes will win.

Shouldn't it be renamed the WHITE Flag defense, since it has SURRENDERED so many points?

[buckeyebob]

The guys say they have had good practices this week...seemed to be focused...definitely not taking PG for granted...I think they will be ready

[d0tc0m]

When Celina played PG in the Region II semifinals last year, the Hawks gave the Bobcats the most physical showdown they'd had in a while. By all accounts, PG is even better this year — more physical, more speed, more of a passing game, more focus, more everything. Their defense got after the Bobcats for four quarters, and made establishing any kind of drive very difficult. And, yet, the Bobcats still found a way to win. I see something similar happening this week. I'd love to be able to pick the Hawks with confidence. But I'm just not there yet. I love what PG is doing, but I still think Gilmer has enough weapons to overcome some of their deficiencies, and to overcome that Hawks defense ... by at least one point.

I could see this being a very ugly game with lots of turnovers and lots of changes of possession. And I could see all the PG folks having a legitimate argument at the end of this game that they should have won it, or that they let this one slip away, because I think Gilmer pulls it out on a last-gasp miracle drive down the field by Poppy Brown.

[waterboy]

Shouldn't it be renamed the WHITE Flag defense, since it has SURRENDERED so many points?

While I agree that the Gilmer defense gives up too many points, it seems this year that at least 25% of those points were either given up directly by our offense, or put the defense's back against the wall deep in the red zone. Also, stupid or untimely penalties have kept about half of the remaining drives alive. Take away those two things and the defense is pretty good, first game notwithstanding.

[Aesculus gilmus]

What we need is to buy the refs, as people accuse us of anyhow. That way we can have a Yellow Flag Defense.

[waterboy]

What we need is to buy the refs, as people accuse us of anyhow. That way we can have a Yellow Flag Defense.

:spitlol: Yep. Is it just me, or does it seem like we get flagged way more than our opponent in every game, even at home. Most of those flags are legit, I'm sure, but the missed calls against our opponents stands out to me.

[lostaussie]

East Texas fans hate us, statewide fans hate us, the refs hate us........I don't get it. I am a really likeable guy:D

[d0tc0m]

East Texas fans hate us, statewide fans hate us, the refs hate us........I don't get it. I am a really likeable guy:D


Oh, come on now, Aussie, nobody hates you guys. Only people who hate you are those over on Smoaky who think Gilmer has somewhere around 15 state championships to Carthage's 22 — all won within the last decade.

[waterboy]

East Texas fans hate us, statewide fans hate us, the refs hate us........I don't get it. I am a really likeable guy:D

It ain't personal. There are a lot of folks that are jealous of our success in the last decade and a half. Most of those same folks that hate us have been victims of beatdowns at the hands of the Buckeyes. I also think that all of the criticism of the referees in our matchups with those same teams over the years has had an effect on the officiating in our games of the last three years since Jeff left. I am a homer, yes, but I AM objective when it comes to officiating. I see us getting a raw deal in that area more so now than I can remember. Most of those calls are legit, I must say, but the calls against our opponents haven't been close to being even. It seems I've seen a whole lot of holding (grabbing the jersey), illegal blocks, and even a couple of offsides (OBVIOUS) not called against our opponents. Are the officials being intentional? Probably not, but it makes one wonder sometimes.

It is what it is, though, and you have to play through it. No excuses.

[oldtownag]

East Texas fans hate us, statewide fans hate us, the refs hate us........I don't get it. I am a really likeable guy:D

Opponents love losers! Would you rather lose and be loved?

P.S. Carthage doesn't hate Gilmer (much).

[regaleagle]

I think it's been proven that PG is a very solid football team this year in just about all areas......especially defensively. It's gonna be tough going into Gilmer and walking away with a win, but a very solid team like PG is this year may be able to make it happen. If they can play very clean football and dictate the intensity and physicality, then I think it may disrupt Gilmer's penchant for setting a torrid pace in the game offensively. If you can get Gilmer out of their comfort zone and fast pace offensively, then you have a very good chance of winning. I do think that we will see Pleasant Grove as the better defensive team......and of course Gilmer as the more potent team offensively. I'm betting the PG coaches will have the Hawks ready to play a very physical game. It will be interesting to see if defense or offense dictates the pace of play in this game. I think that will be the determining factor in which team will win.

[bobcat1]

East Texas fans hate us, statewide fans hate us, the refs hate us........I don't get it. I am a really likeable guy:D
You are and I think Gilmer hits their stride this week and Smokes PG:2thumbsup

[lostaussie]

You are and I think Gilmer hits their stride this week and Smokes PG:2thumbsupMy fan base = 1:D

[bobcat1]

my fan base = 1:dttt!

[lostaussie]

I got a good feeling. Nac was smashed between Carthage and PG. We got up as high as we could for Carthage only to have the wind let out of our sails in the 4th quarter. That night they proved to me they could play with anybody. The next week, after a game the kids really felt they should have won, we come out very flat against a team we should beat the brakes off.
Fast forward 2 weeks. It's time to look to the future.......do what we do. They ain't coming into OUR HOUSE, and kicking THIS A$$. It ain't happening. Bucks win.

[waterboy]

I got a good feeling. Nac was smashed between Carthage and PG. We got up as high as we could for Carthage only to have the wind let out of our sails in the 4th quarter. That night they proved to me they could play with anybody. The next week, after a game the kids really felt they should have won, we come out very flat against a team we should beat the brakes off.
Fast forward 2 weeks. It's time to look to the future.......do what we do. They ain't coming into OUR HOUSE, and kicking THIS A$$. It ain't happening. Bucks win.

Agreed. I just have a feeling that says the Buckeyes show up, and show off for Friday's match up.

[d0tc0m]

Agreed. I just have a feeling that says the Buckeyes show up, and show off for Friday's match up.


Well, you only have to wait a few more hours to see if your feeling holds true or not.

[waterboy]

Well, you only have to wait a few more hours to see if your feeling holds true or not.

Yep. I'm thinking the week off will help.

[lostaussie]

We will be ready!!!!

[Txbroadcaster]

East Texas fans hate us, statewide fans hate us, the refs hate us........I don't get it. I am a really likeable guy:D

Welcome to my world LOL.

[bobcat1]

Welcome to my world LOL.
You bring it on your self!:taunt:

[lostaussie]

We playing Liberty Hill in black and gold. Not a single pass so far.......and if I was them I wouldn't throw one in the 2nd half!!!!

[Aesculus gilmus]

Pleasant Grove caused Gilmer to lose a district game at home for probably the first time this century. I don't recall another one. I think there might have been a loss to Spring Hill in 2000 at home, but I'm not sure they were in our district that year. They probably were, though.

The Hawks have a bigger and more athletic team than ours, if you can believe it. I noticed that even during 7 on 7. As Grant Goodwin has said, "they have some inner-city now."

I felt the whole time that everything would have to go right for Gilmer to pull out a win and a couple of things didn't, so we lost.

This'll be the first time we won't win our district since 2013. That year we went out in the third round. That sounds about right for this season as well. I just don't know who'll be our "Argyle" yet in the third round. I very much doubt we'll make it to the quarterfinals for a rematch against the Hawks. Anything's possible, though.

[WOS87]

D2 Regions 2 and 4 are gonna be fun to watch come playoff time.

[bobcat1]

Well dang. PG must be the real deal this year.

[d0tc0m]

Pleasant Grove caused Gilmer to lose a district game at home for probably the first time this century. I don't recall another one. I think there might have been a loss to Spring Hill in 2000 at home, but I'm not sure they were in our district that year. They probably were, though.

The Hawks have a bigger and more athletic team than ours, if you can believe it. I noticed that even during 7 on 7. As Grant Goodwin has said, "they have some inner-city now."

I felt the whole time that everything would have to go right for Gilmer to pull out a win and a couple of things didn't, so we lost.

This'll be the first time we won't win our district since 2013. That year we went out in the third round. That sounds about right for this season as well. I just don't know who'll be our "Argyle" yet in the third round. I very much doubt we'll make it to the quarterfinals for a rematch against the Hawks. Anything's possible, though.


If the bracket holds true to last year, third round will likely be whoever wins District 5 - probably Celina or Melissa.

[LionFan72]

PG has made the step above and beyond, to go into Gilmer and steal a big WIN! Wwow!

[regaleagle]

I listened to the last 4 mins. when I got home......it must have been a real classic. After Gilmer takes a 4 point lead with only 3 min. and change left, PG marches down the field converting 3rd and longs on 3 different times, then hits a perfectly thrown pass over the middle for the TD with only 36 secs. left to take the lead again by 3 pts. Gilmer uses it's 3 timeouts after a touchback on the kickoff to march all the way to the PG 14 yd line, but with only 5 secs left, they elect to take the 31 yd field goal to tie it up......they have a very good kicker. The kick goes wide right and PG celebrates.

[Txbroadcaster]

You bring it on your self!:taunt:

I am just a nice guy trying to spread some TXHSFB knowledge..nothing more.

[lostaussie]

Missed opportunities again. Two picks inside the red zone. We had our chances.......but, PG is very very good. I predict us to go 11-3. We will lose to PG again. We can't stop that and I doubt we will score that many next time. Hopefully we at least get a chance. I believe PG is good enough to win it all.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Stats: http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/gilmer-buckeyes-(gilmer,tx)/football/stats.htm

Poppy only had one interception. The other one was called back and I'm not sure it was in the red zone to begin with. Poppy played a helluva game IMO.

Poppy is not our problem. We don't emphasize defense in Gilmer. Never have and I assume we never will.

This is why we have to outscore everybody.

[lostaussie]

Stats: http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/gilmer-buckeyes-(gilmer,tx)/football/stats.htm

Poppy only had one interception. The other one was called back and I'm not sure it was in the red zone to begin with. Poppy played a helluva game IMO.

Poppy is not our problem. We don't emphasize defense in Gilmer. Never have and I assume we never will.

This is why we have to outscore everybody.

No, and I never meant to say that. It's just the missed chances that bother me.......... because I know we are only good for a couple stops a game on defense. Poppy played his heart out. He was not our issue. PG offense was our issue. They are very talented. Offense and defense lines are huge and athletic. They will be a tough out by anyone.

[d0tc0m]

Gilmer folks, my apologies for this question, but it is out of genuine curiosity:

Is attendance down at home games for you guys? Apart from the Carthage game, every film I watch of the Buckeyes shows A LOT of empty seats on the home side. I was very shocked, watching the PG film at how starkly void the home bleachers appeared. And this was a pretty big game. Again, no disrespect intended at all, just curious.

[waterboy]

Quite simply, we got beat by the better team. We played a whole lot better offensively than we have all year, but it wasn't enough. PG was just bigger, stronger, more talented (did I just say that?), better coached, and definitely hungrier than we were. Somebody is going to have to have a really strong defense to stop them. That is something we've never had this century. We've been "good enough" at times on defense because our offense can score lots of points, but hold us under 40 points and chances are really good that you will beat us.

Even though we lost, I am encouraged by the performance of our offense. The receivers were making ridiculous catches, even with the overly physical style of PG's DBs. They got called for a few PIs (most of those times our receivers caught the ball anyway), but that's their style, and as the game went on the refs overlooked a LOT that could've been called. That's good coaching. They established the physicality. I did not like the fact that the officials would not call the obvious taunting, though. That's classless, and I don't feel there's a need for any of that.

I really question the football IQ of the PG fans, too. They were really clueless about the rules of the game. It was a BIG win for their program, and the Hawks just wanted it more.

Until we can learn how to play DEFENSE in Gilmer, we will always keep falling short of our potential. Oh, well, at least some of the Buckeye fans are on the same page as I am. DEFENSE used to be something we were extremely proud of in Buckeyeland. Now it's offense. Why can't it be BOTH?

[lostaussie]

Yes it is and it's very disappointing. I made a comment about it after the Nac game on the Buckeyes Facebook page and my ears got burnt!!!. People whining about the reserved seating. The folks that have those tickets won't come to the dang games. May have been more from Txk than from Gilmer.

[lostaussie]

Waterboy......what your thoughts on #2 Morgan Lusty. That kid got some different level skills!!!!

[waterboy]

Gilmer folks, my apologies for this question, but it is out of genuine curiosity:

Is attendance down at home games for you guys? Apart from the Carthage game, every film I watch of the Buckeyes shows A LOT of empty seats on the home side. I was very shocked, watching the PG film at how starkly void the home bleachers appeared. And this was a pretty big game. Again, no disrespect intended at all, just curious.

All of those empty seats are pre-sold reserved seats. The thing about reserved seating is getting enough seats side by side for each party. There will always be gaps in the seating. For the most part, though, most of those seats are bought by people that rarely show up, and that is sad. The home side seats about 4,000 (I think), but probably 2/3s of the seating is reserved. It seems the REAL fans are the ones without the reserved seats. If I can't make it to a game, I usually give my tickets away to friends. Sometimes those friends don't even sit in my seats, which are very good ones.:mad:

[waterboy]

Waterboy......what your thoughts on #2 Morgan Lusty. That kid got some different level skills!!!!

Morgan Lusty is a little feller, but he has the best hands on the team, and is probably our fastest kid. He reminds me of Wes Welker, to be honest. He gets behind the defense more often than anybody else. His routes are crisp, and if Poppy was any taller I think he would get a lot more touches. He is still our leading receiver, and has more TDs than any of our other receivers (I think).

[d0tc0m]

Waterboy......what your thoughts on #2 Morgan Lusty. That kid got some different level skills!!!!


Best receiver Gilmer has, from what I've seen. Athletically, he's not as gifted as some of the others, like Red and Qua, but he runs really, really clean routes. He has great hands, even in traffic, and he has great focus when the ball is in the air. He's not afraid to play physical, either, as he made some tough catches against some good PG coverages. I don't know if he'll blow by anyone with his speed, but he's a one of the more valuable assets Gilmer has, offensively, in my opinion.

[regaleagle]

Yes it is and it's very disappointing. I made a comment about it after the Nac game on the Buckeyes Facebook page and my ears got burnt!!!. People whining about the reserved seating. The folks that have those tickets won't come to the dang games. May have been more from Txk than from Gilmer.

Fan support for dominant winning programs in high school football......is it a problem??? Does "the magic" of winning lose its luster when the team is "supposed to win" almost every game, and is "expected" to play for a State Championship each season??? Do you notice that even the most dedicated fans are no longer rabid about their team? Has the band, cheerleaders, and student body become complacent and less spirited during the game.....like when the team scores or makes a great defensive play? When the team plays away, do you obviously see less fanbase attending those games? Do you think it's a sign of the times, or do you feel the fans have become "numb" and can no longer be excited about the team winning? I ask these questions because I see some of these same symptoms in Argyle as compared to the way it was maybe 5 yrs ago......most certainly 10 yrs ago.

[lostaussie]

Fan support for dominant winning programs in high school football......is it a problem??? Does "the magic" of winning lose its luster when the team is "supposed to win" almost every game, and is "expected" to play for a State Championship each season??? Do you notice that even the most dedicated fans are no longer rabid about their team? Has the band, cheerleaders, and student body become complacent and less spirited during the game.....like when the team scores or makes a great defensive play? When the team plays away, do you obviously see less fanbase attending those games? Do you think it's a sign of the times, or do you feel the fans have become "numb" and can no longer be excited about the team winning? I ask these questions because I see some of these same symptoms in Argyle as compared to the way it was maybe 5 yrs ago......most certainly 10 yrs ago.

You hit the nail on the head. You have described us to a T

[regaleagle]

Very unfortunate for those that give so much, and for the town in general. It may even be a human behavorial pattern that just cannot be fixed and appears in other similar scenarios.....like when a person is born into wealth and does not appreciate his standing in the world until he experiences personally what it's like to not have wealth.

[regaleagle]

So by this analysis......the only way to solve this problem is for those winning programs to begin losing on a regular basis for several years in a row......that should do it, Huh?

[d0tc0m]

Fan support for dominant winning programs in high school football......is it a problem??? Does "the magic" of winning lose its luster when the team is "supposed to win" almost every game, and is "expected" to play for a State Championship each season??? Do you notice that even the most dedicated fans are no longer rabid about their team? Has the band, cheerleaders, and student body become complacent and less spirited during the game.....like when the team scores or makes a great defensive play? When the team plays away, do you obviously see less fanbase attending those games? Do you think it's a sign of the times, or do you feel the fans have become "numb" and can no longer be excited about the team winning? I ask these questions because I see some of these same symptoms in Argyle as compared to the way it was maybe 5 yrs ago......most certainly 10 yrs ago.


You hit the nail on the head. You have described us to a T



And, this is what Celina went through from about 2009-2014. And that's why, in an earlier thread, I drew comparisons between where Gilmer is now, as a program, and where Celina was in the post-2008 era. Argyle won't be much further behind all of this, either. They've been winning at a large enough clip for long enough now that these symptoms will start to creep in.

After a while, winning just becomes standard. It becomes expected. So much so, that people don't pay much attention unless it's a late season game where, perhaps, winning isn't necessarily expected. Throw in how readily available real-time game information is for those that want it, and you have the recipe for low attendance rates.

Whereas, from 1995-2008 in Celina, it was hard to get a seat at home games, and it was hard to get a good seat at playoff games. You had to arrive very, very early. There was just so much excitement within the program, from the 68-game winning streak, to the four-peat, to the ending of the streak, to the should've-been state championship team in 2004, to the four straight state appearances (and two titles) from 2005-08. Celina was on an unprecedented run of eight state title appearances in 14 seasons, and several exciting/promising teams (1996, 1997, 2002, 2004) that could have and should have played for the state title.

That success, however, was the architect of its own demise, in a sense. And, this rise-and-fall pattern can be seen being repeated for most of Texas's historic programs. There's no singularity here, as there are many factors at play, but there is commonality between all of the great powerhouses. After about a decade and a half, excitement starts to drop, and there has to be a fall of sorts, in order that a revival can take place.

[waterboy]

I think you folks are onto something. There definitely doesn't "seem" to be as much excitement in the air as there used to be. Friday's game was VERY INTENSE for the fans, but the crowd wasn't there like they used to be a few years ago. We have a big stadium, especially on the home side (which is really nice BTW), and it hasn't really been "full" but maybe once or twice since the remodel. I think there's too many reserved seats, and I think that has a lot to do with it. No way should there be about 2/3s of the home side reserved seating. There's just too many fair weather fans for that.

I also think winning is expected, taken for granted even, and some people didn't realize just how good PG was. We played our best game of the year offensively, and still came up short. I think that if we could just get a NEW DEFENSE in place, even if we have to lose a few games during the transition, I think the fans will start coming back. There will still be gaps in the reserved seating because that's just the nature of having those seats. A stellar offense is fun to watch, but a dominant defense is even MORE fun to watch, in my humble opinion.

[Aesculus gilmus]

I think you folks are onto something. There definitely doesn't "seem" to be as much excitement in the air as there used to be. Friday's game was VERY INTENSE for the fans, but the crowd wasn't there like they used to be a few years ago. We have a big stadium, especially on the home side (which is really nice BTW), and it hasn't really been "full" but maybe once or twice since the remodel. I think there's too many reserved seats, and I think that has a lot to do with it. No way should there be about 2/3s of the home side reserved seating. There's just too many fair weather fans for that.

There must have been a "build it and they will come" aspect to how much they expanded the home side. We'll never come close to filling that on anywhere near a regular basis short of consolidating with some of the districts bordering the Gilmer ISD. I wouldn't mind having the Harmony players on our team this season. Would we still be in 4A if we could do that? I think so, just barely.

Let's face it. American society most places outside of Texas does not have much enthusiasm for football anymore. Had you ever told me as a kid that one day the NFL would be on the way out, I"d have probably said "kill me now" or more likely "I'll kill YOU now." :)

[d0tc0m]

There must have been a "build it and they will come" aspect to how much they expanded the home side. We'll never come close to filling that on anywhere near a regular basis short of consolidating with some of the districts bordering the Gilmer ISD. I wouldn't mind having the Harmony players on our team this season. Would we still be in 4A if we could do that? I think so, just barely.

Let's face it. American society most places outside of Texas does not have much enthusiasm for football anymore. Had you ever told me as a kid that one day the NFL would be on the way out, I"d have probably said "kill me now" or more likely "I'll kill YOU now." :)



Participation in the south (aka, Texas and the SEC and most of the ACC states) is actually up over what it was a decade ago. It's the other states where we are seeing a decline in the sport. It's hit or miss here in Missouri. Some fan bases are pretty rabid still, including a little ol' school named Lamar (Class 2) that will likely win its SEVENTH straight state championship this Thanksgiving. Lamar brings a boatload of fans every week, more so than many Class 6 schools do for the state title game.

The NFL's problem is its predictability from week-to-week and game-to-game. The games are pretty cookie-cutter. There are exceptions, obviously, as there always are, but for the most part, week-in and week-out, you could watch the scores scroll across the bottom of whatever channel you watch, and they're all pretty close to one another, and they're pretty much the same as they were every other week. Mix that with what is a widespread, systemic misinterpretation or gross misunderstanding of the rules — and application of said rules — and the average fan just wants no part of it. Dez did catch it, by the way.

[waterboy]

Participation in the south (aka, Texas and the SEC and most of the ACC states) is actually up over what it was a decade ago. It's the other states where we are seeing a decline in the sport. It's hit or miss here in Missouri. Some fan bases are pretty rabid still, including a little ol' school named Lamar (Class 2) that will likely win its SEVENTH straight state championship this Thanksgiving. Lamar brings a boatload of fans every week, more so than many Class 6 schools do for the state title game.

The NFL's problem is its predictability from week-to-week and game-to-game. The games are pretty cookie-cutter. There are exceptions, obviously, as there always are, but for the most part, week-in and week-out, you could watch the scores scroll across the bottom of whatever channel you watch, and they're all pretty close to one another, and they're pretty much the same as they were every other week. Mix that with what is a widespread, systemic misinterpretation or gross misunderstanding of the rules — and application of said rules — and the average fan just wants no part of it. Dez did catch it, by the way.

He ABSOLUTELY DID! The NFL has lost a lost of its luster to a lot of us folk due to the fact that it has become too political. The players are dictating to the owners what to stand for, or in the latest case, what to kneel for. I don't agree with any of that crap.

[Txbroadcaster]

Fan support for dominant winning programs in high school football......is it a problem??? Does "the magic" of winning lose its luster when the team is "supposed to win" almost every game, and is "expected" to play for a State Championship each season??? Do you notice that even the most dedicated fans are no longer rabid about their team? Has the band, cheerleaders, and student body become complacent and less spirited during the game.....like when the team scores or makes a great defensive play? When the team plays away, do you obviously see less fanbase attending those games? Do you think it's a sign of the times, or do you feel the fans have become "numb" and can no longer be excited about the team winning? I ask these questions because I see some of these same symptoms in Argyle as compared to the way it was maybe 5 yrs ago......most certainly 10 yrs ago.

Going to bring this up on show this week..thanks!

[lostaussie]

Going to bring this up on show this week..thanks!

If you do cut that part out for me and send a link. I'm sure I will po a bunch of folks:D