Associated Press rankings

[Bosqueville]

1. Carthage (21)
2. Gilmer
3. West Orange-Stark
4. Argyle
5. Waco La Vega
6. Cuero
7. Celina
8. Kennedale
9. Abilene Wylie
10. China Spring

[lostaussie]

There are 6 or more of these that could probably beat #2 at this point. Maybe not later, but right now I'm pretty sure of it. I also believe we will be much improved in a few weeks.

[PurplePop]

1. Carthage (21)
2. Gilmer
3. West Orange-Stark
4. Argyle
5. Waco La Vega
6. Cuero
7. Celina
8. Kennedale
9. Abilene Wylie
10. China Spring

Is Carthage 2017 better than Carthage 2016?

[Dawgs]

Is Carthage 2017 better than Carthage 2016?

Yes, and it's not close. But one thing we haven't seen is their heart. 2016 was the weakest team as far as personnel that Carthage has had to win a title, but those boys had heart. The biggest heart of any team Carthage has had. This is the most talent Surratt has had. We will see what their mental make up is in the playoffs. I would expect it to be the same, since we returned so many players. Carthage has 33 seniors. That is a lot of experience from last year carrying over to 2017.

[waterboy]

There are 6 or more of these that could probably beat #2 at this point. Maybe not later, but right now I'm pretty sure of it. I also believe we will be much improved in a few weeks.

This is true. I certainly "hope" we get better defensively. Carthage is going to embarrass us at home in a blowout loss. If we don't improve defensively it'll just be another season of "what ifs". It's time to spend some money on a DC at Gilmer, in my opinion. There's absolutely no excuse for the breakdowns in coverage the other night. Once or twice? Maybe. Ten or more? No excuse.

Even though we've won three titles in the last 16 years, been to the finals twice more, etc., our defense, or lack thereof, has always kept us from being even better. It's all about the offense in Gilmer. Has been since 2000.

Bash away.

[coach]

Kilgore should be in there.

[lostaussie]

Kilgore should be in there.

Because they beat Nac? Lololol

[coach]

Because they beat Nac? Lololol

Of course. No they are pretty damn good. Offensive line does a good job.

[d0tc0m]

This is true. I certainly "hope" we get better defensively. Carthage is going to embarrass us at home in a blowout loss. If we don't improve defensively it'll just be another season of "what ifs". It's time to spend some money on a DC at Gilmer, in my opinion. There's absolutely no excuse for the breakdowns in coverage the other night. Once or twice? Maybe. Ten or more? No excuse.

Even though we've won three titles in the last 16 years, been to the finals twice more, etc., our defense, or lack thereof, has always kept us from being even better. It's all about the offense in Gilmer. Has been since 2000.

Bash away.



Your last sentence is the tell. It is all about the offense. And the problem, and I know folks at Gilmer won't want to hear this, but the spread offense is never going to be conducive to a good defense. And, not just the ol' run-of-the-mill spread offense, but the breakneck, NASCAR, pedal-through-the-floorboard style that Gilmer plays. That offense doesn't lead to a lot of ball control drives, but more quick-hit, big-play strikes, which means the defense plays more snaps, and the more snaps a defense plays, the worst it's going to look.

I'm sure I'm wrong, and you guys can all tell me how wrong I am, and I will certainly listen. But with the athletes Gilmer has, there's no reason they shouldn't have an elite defense. But for me, from what I see, there's a direct corollary between the offensive philosophy and the defensive struggles.

[Phantom Stang]

QUOTE=coach;1925515]Kilgore should be in there.[/QUOTE]

Here they are....

Others receiving votes: 11, Midlothian Heritage 14. 12, Van 13. 13, Kilgore 8. 14, Sweetwater 2. 15, El Campo 1. 15, Graham 1. 15, Henderson 1.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/dfwvarsity/prep-football/article171207612.html#storylink=cpy

[lostaussie]

Of course. No they are pretty damn good. Offensive line does a good job. Hopefully you know I'm just yanking yo chain.

[coach]

Hopefully you know I'm just yanking yo chain.


Oh I know you are. Hell in the scond half we made them look like a top 3 team.

[lostaussie]

Oh I know you are. Hell in the scond half we made them look like a top 3 team.

Yes I know. Nac contributed to my 8-7 worst in the league picks. I had y'all in a landslide!!! :D

[waterboy]

Your last sentence is the tell. It is all about the offense. And the problem, and I know folks at Gilmer won't want to hear this, but the spread offense is never going to be conducive to a good defense. And, not just the ol' run-of-the-mill spread offense, but the breakneck, NASCAR, pedal-through-the-floorboard style that Gilmer plays. That offense doesn't lead to a lot of ball control drives, but more quick-hit, big-play strikes, which means the defense plays more snaps, and the more snaps a defense plays, the worst it's going to look.

I'm sure I'm wrong, and you guys can all tell me how wrong I am, and I will certainly listen. But with the athletes Gilmer has, there's no reason they shouldn't have an elite defense. But for me, from what I see, there's a direct corollary between the offensive philosophy and the defensive struggles.

I would've said the same thing a few years ago, but the last few years haven't been that way at all. Yes, we score a lot of points, but most of the time the drives are consuming 2 to 4 minutes, some drives over 5 minutes as opposed to under 2 minutes previously. That's ample time for the defense to catch their breath and be able to make stops. The defense has gotten worse and worse over the past couple of years, until now I want to call it the "White Flag" defense. It's time for a change in schemes. Even being tired you don't have breakdowns in coverage every play. That's just poor defense. One thing I can say with certainty, though, is we can only get better.:D

[lostaussie]

What I have seen in our defensive backfield, is that usually good things happen........when you TURN AROUND and look at the ball. We are plenty good enough to make a play if we look at the play.

[d0tc0m]

I would've said the same thing a few years ago, but the last few years haven't been that way at all. Yes, we score a lot of points, but most of the time the drives are consuming 2 to 4 minutes, some drives over 5 minutes as opposed to under 2 minutes previously. That's ample time for the defense to catch their breath and be able to make stops. The defense has gotten worse and worse over the past couple of years, until now I want to call it the "White Flag" defense. It's time for a change in schemes. Even being tired you don't have breakdowns in coverage every play. That's just poor defense. One thing I can say with certainty, though, is we can only get better.:D


It's not always, simply, about the amount of time the defense spends on the field. More importantly, in my mind, is the amount of snaps they have to play. Gilmer's quick-strike offensive attack means the defense will play more snaps, inevitably. The more your defense is on the field, the more prone it is to getting beat, or to have someone blow an assignment.

But I won't argue you on the need for a scheme change, although, at this level, so much of defense is just about the culture/mindset, especially when it comes to a school like Gilmer, who only on the rarest of occasions will get out athleted. You can give kids the right scheme, put 'em in position to succeed and turn 'em loose, but they gotta execute, and they gotta have it between the ears to do that.

[regaleagle]

Kilgore should be in there.

If there were to be a team that should have been given more consideration......my vote would go to Van.

[waterboy]

It's not always, simply, about the amount of time the defense spends on the field. More importantly, in my mind, is the amount of snaps they have to play. Gilmer's quick-strike offensive attack means the defense will play more snaps, inevitably. The more your defense is on the field, the more prone it is to getting beat, or to have someone blow an assignment.

But I won't argue you on the need for a scheme change, although, at this level, so much of defense is just about the culture/mindset, especially when it comes to a school like Gilmer, who only on the rarest of occasions will get out athleted. You can give kids the right scheme, put 'em in position to succeed and turn 'em loose, but they gotta execute, and they gotta have it between the ears to do that.

I guess you would have to watch them regularly over a few seasons to understand where I'm coming from. Giving up 43 points in the first half? That's a problem, no matter where you're coming from. Look, I know what you're saying, and there were many seasons I just rolled with it because we did "enough" defensively. I'm just not seeing these kids being coached up now. Poor technique, mass confusion, and blown assignments have become a more and more prevalent problem. Yes, kids make mistakes. Getting them to correct those mistakes, though, is the coaches' responsibilities. If the kid can't fix it, put somebody else out there who can. I will never understand how a team with the size (not every year), speed, talent, and depth we have how we can't do better defensively......, unless of course....., it has to do with coaching and the scheme?

[d0tc0m]

I guess you would have to watch them regularly over a few seasons to understand where I'm coming from. Giving up 43 points in the first half? That's a problem, no matter where you're coming from. Look, I know what you're saying, and there were many seasons I just rolled with it because we did "enough" defensively. I'm just not seeing these kids being coached up now. Poor technique, mass confusion, and blown assignments have become a more and more prevalent problem. Yes, kids make mistakes. Getting them to correct those mistakes, though, is the coaches' responsibilities. If the kid can't fix it, put somebody else out there who can. I will never understand how a team with the size (not every year), speed, talent, and depth we have how we can't do better defensively......, unless of course....., it has to do with coaching and the scheme?



Well, you're closer to the program, obviously, so I have to defer to what you see on a weekly basis. I was just tossing my outsider 2-cents in there. But you and I are in agreement in that Gilmer should never struggle on either side of the ball, given the athletes/speed they have. At this level, that amount of athleticism is still the exception, not the rule. So, perhaps it is time to start looking deeper into why the defense struggles to hold teams to under 35 points a game. I think it's just been glossed over because the offense has never had a problem scoring 40-50 points a game.

[slingshot]

I would think Brownwood and 'Ville would show up somewhere on the list... they are both loaded this year. Should make for a very interesting district race between Stephenville, Brownwood and Wylie. I was serious earlier when I said they are both better than last year and we are down a notch.

[waterboy]

Well, you're closer to the program, obviously, so I have to defer to what you see on a weekly basis. I was just tossing my outsider 2-cents in there. But you and I are in agreement in that Gilmer should never struggle on either side of the ball, given the athletes/speed they have. At this level, that amount of athleticism is still the exception, not the rule. So, perhaps it is time to start looking deeper into why the defense struggles to hold teams to under 35 points a game. I think it's just been glossed over because the offense has never had a problem scoring 40-50 points a game.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy seeing our offense put on a show. I will just never understand why we don't take more pride and place more emphasis on the defensive side of the ball. There was a time when DEFENSE was what Gilmer was more known for. Times have changed. We have the players to put together a better defense than what we see every Friday night, in my opinion. They are just not being coached up, again my opinion. It looks like we'll just have to outscore everybody, and that is a tall task when other teams know how to get stops, and execute offensively. Unless we get things fixed defensively, I just don't see how we can reach our full potential.

I will say this, this year's team is the most talented team we've had since 2014. If we do shore up our defensive woes, we will be playing in December again. We might be anyway, but a championship will depend on our defense being able to make stops consistently.

By the way, relay the word to Coach Thompson down at WO-S that he needs to move north. :D I would bet there would be plenty of Buckeyes fans that would help insure he gets a hefty raise.

[speedbump]

I would think Brownwood and 'Ville would show up somewhere on the list... they are both loaded this year. Should make for a very interesting district race between Stephenville, Brownwood and Wylie. I was serious earlier when I said they are both better than last year and we are down a notch.

"I would think" See, right there was your mistake. Why would you think when nobody connected to the thing has ever bothered to do it?

[toddg]

I would think Brownwood and 'Ville would show up somewhere on the list... they are both loaded this year. Should make for a very interesting district race between Stephenville, Brownwood and Wylie. I was serious earlier when I said they are both better than last year and we are down a notch.how do
you know they're loaded? because they say so? I'll let you know in a couple of weeks on Brownwood, as for stephenville..it's a wait and see. I'll trust your opinion on Wylie..I know you know about them.

[Bosqueville]

how do
you know they're loaded? because they say so? I'll let you know in a couple of weeks on Brownwood, as for stephenville..it's a wait and see. I'll trust your opinion on Wylie..I know you know about them.

They're loaded...

[JacketSwarm]

take this to the bank. the Jackets are on another level this year. rank them 20 or 10 or 1. don't matter. brownwood snyder and the others in district will be shell shocked when they meet. Jackets are back to power house football. who wants in the ring

[Aggie98]

Of course. No they are pretty damn good. Offensive line does a good job.

Our O-Line was supposed to be the biggest question mark for us coming into this season. I think they're going to be just fine. Nac's D-Line was massive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dawgs]

take this to the bank. the Jackets are on another level this year. rank them 20 or 10 or 1. don't matter. brownwood snyder and the others in district will be shell shocked when they meet. Jackets are back to power house football. who wants in the ring

We all been waiting on the Jackets to show up. I would love to see them back contending. They been missing since 2013.

[WOS87]

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy seeing our offense put on a show. I will just never understand why we don't take more pride and place more emphasis on the defensive side of the ball. There was a time when DEFENSE was what Gilmer was more known for. Times have changed. We have the players to put together a better defense than what we see every Friday night, in my opinion. They are just not being coached up, again my opinion. It looks like we'll just have to outscore everybody, and that is a tall task when other teams know how to get stops, and execute offensively. Unless we get things fixed defensively, I just don't see how we can reach our full potential.

I will say this, this year's team is the most talented team we've had since :evil:. If we do shore up our defensive woes, we will be playing in December again. We might be anyway, but a championship will depend on our defense being able to make stops consistently.

By the way, relay the word to Coach Thompson down at WO-S that he needs to move north. :D I would bet there would be plenty of Buckeyes fans that would help insure he gets a hefty raise.

Coach T isn't going anywhere!! :evil:

[waterboy]

Coach T isn't going anywhere!! :evil:

:D Just making sure you folks were paying attention!

By the way..., 2014. :tongue:

[regaleagle]

They're loaded...

Well heck......sounds to me like we have at least 15 teams in 4A "loaded" this season......something's gotta give! We may not have an undefeated team in 4A this season......at least not in Division I.

[slingshot]

how do
you know they're loaded? because they say so? I'll let you know in a couple of weeks on Brownwood, as for stephenville..it's a wait and see. I'll trust your opinion on Wylie..I know you know about them.How do I know? We play them both every year, have watched their kids since 7th grade, both had VERY good JV's last year, both have storied programs and tremendous community support... shall I go on?
Are they both State Championship contenders? No. Are they both capable of winning district and going 3-4 rounds in the playoffs? Yes.

[BwdLions]

take this to the bank. the Jackets are on another level this year. rank them 20 or 10 or 1. don't matter. brownwood snyder and the others in district will be shell shocked when they meet. Jackets are back to power house football. who wants in the ring

:rolleyes:

[JacketSwarm]

1. Carthage (21) -defending champs maybe
2. Gilmer- not worthy of 2
3. West Orange-Stark - defending champs ok
4. Argyle - decent
5. Waco La Vega -nope
6. Cuero -Nope
7. Celina-nope
8. Kennedale -nope
9. Abilene Wylie-nope
10. China Spring-nope




FIRE AWAY

[JacketSwarm]

:rolleyes:

still stuck in the past huh? brownwood good this year? doubt it




FIRE AWAY

[lostaussie]

1. Carthage (21) -defending champs maybe
2. Gilmer- not worthy of 2
3. West Orange-Stark - defending champs ok
4. Argyle - decent
5. Waco La Vega -nope
6. Cuero -Nope
7. Celina-nope
8. Kennedale -nope
9. Abilene Wylie-nope
10. China Spring-nope




FIRE AWAY

Lol:D

[LH Panther Mom]

"I would think" See, right there was your mistake. Why would you think when nobody connected to the thing has ever bothered to do it?
:fnypost:

[WOS87]

:D Just making sure you folks were paying attention!

By the way..., 2014. :tongue:

Gilmer vs Celina '15, Sweetwater '16 - 97 points allowed combined
WO-S vs Celina '15, Sweetwater '16 - 9 points allowed combined

Right back at ya! :kiss:

[lostaussie]

Gilmer vs Celina '15, Sweetwater '16 - 97 points allowed combined
WO-S vs Celina '15, Sweetwater '16 - 9 points allowed combined

Right back at ya! :kiss:

That's lame. 35-25 is in your craw and you can't stand it. Just for you Chris...... Buckeyes 2>Stangs 0

[WOS87]

That's lame. 35-25 is in your craw and you can't stand it. Just for you Chris...... Buckeyes 2>Stangs 0

Meh... Honey Grove is 3-0 against Celina. Plano is 4-0 vs Permian but which are the better programs historically? Plano/Permian could be arguable but only barely. What do head-to-heads mean?

State Titles
WO-S 4, Gilmer 3

We can do this forever if you like.

[lostaussie]

State Titles
WO-S 4, Gilmer 3

We can do this forever if you like.

No I'm good. I like owning the Mustangs:D

[WOS87]

No I'm good. I like owning the Mustangs:D

Try getting to the title game more than once every 5 years then ;). You're not due again until 2019.

[lostaussie]

Try getting to the title game more than once every 5 years then ;). You're not due again until 2019.

Wrong again. We only win every 5 years. We get there and get our asses kicked in between

[WOS87]

Wrong again. We only win every 5 years. We get there and get our asses kicked in between

Lol. By all means get there this year and 2018 then :)

[oldtownag]

Meh... Honey Grove is 3-0 against Celina. Plano is 4-0 vs Permian but which are the better programs historically? Plano/Permian could be arguable but only barely. What do head-to-heads mean?

State Titles
WO-S 4, Gilmer 3

We can do this forever if you like.

Dawgs 5

[WOS87]

Dawgs 5

We were tied at 4 each for a few hours last December ;p

Still have you beat in Finals Appearances.