UIL Baseball Pitch Count Rule

[stardog]

New Rule For Pitchers:

Saw on sport news that UIL will implement new baseball pitcher count rule.

---required to rest days will be dependent upon previous pitch count

0 - 30 pitches = 0 days rest
31 - 45 pitches = 1 days rest
46 - 65 pitches = 2 days rest
66 - 85 pitches = 3 days rest
86 -110 pitches = 4 days rest

didn't say if pitcher has to come out after 110 pitches

[XMan]

Though im not in favor fr UIL regulation telling the coaches what to do, this could actually end up being a good thing and not because of why you think. What it may do is eventually force a lot of the smaller schools to make baseball coaching more important. Currently, many baseball coaches are hired solely on their football knowledge. Meaning that they are a good football coach and they agree to coach baseball in spring to get an extra stipend and so that someone else doesnt have to do it. These guys are going to get really exposed because they do not develop players. The teams that only have 1 good pitcher (usually by accident) are going to get exposed. Some of the really small schools are going to have a hard time playing 2 games a week. Maybe, just maybe, but I doubt it, the schools will look to hire baseball coaches that know something about baseball, mechanics of throwing, and how to teach pitching. It would also help if these schools would allow the baseball players to begin preparation for the season before the last Friday in Jan. It takes 3 weeks to get an arm in shape and these folks are trying to get them in shape in about 7 days. Lastly, maybe the UIL will put a throw restriction on football quarterbacks. How bout 110 total throws a week for them? This includes practice, games, and 7 on 7. Also, maybe they should limit carries during a game to try to avoid injury causing collisions. Only 15 touches a game, then you are out. Would prevent lots of injuries.

[PurplePop]

I'm not too crazy about that. The only thing it really affects is the playoffs. And, once you get to the playoffs, sometimes extraordinary effort is required. These kids are doing way more damage to their arms in select leagues in the summer and fall and before they even get to high school.

[pancho villa]

Though im not in favor fr UIL regulation telling the coaches what to do, this could actually end up being a good thing and not because of why you think. What it may do is eventually force a lot of the smaller schools to make baseball coaching more important. Currently, many baseball coaches are hired solely on their football knowledge. Meaning that they are a good football coach and they agree to coach baseball in spring to get an extra stipend and so that someone else doesnt have to do it. These guys are going to get really exposed because they do not develop players. The teams that only have 1 good pitcher (usually by accident) are going to get exposed. Some of the really small schools are going to have a hard time playing 2 games a week. Maybe, just maybe, but I doubt it, the schools will look to hire baseball coaches that know something about baseball, mechanics of throwing, and how to teach pitching. It would also help if these schools would allow the baseball players to begin preparation for the season before the last Friday in Jan. It takes 3 weeks to get an arm in shape and these folks are trying to get them in shape in about 7 days. Lastly, maybe the UIL will put a throw restriction on football quarterbacks. How bout 110 total throws a week for them? This includes practice, games, and 7 on 7. Also, maybe they should limit carries during a game to try to avoid injury causing collisions. Only 15 touches a game, then you are out. Would prevent lots of injuries.

Small schools don't need to hire real baseball coaches. All the Dads know everything there is to know about baseball. They are just are to blind to see their little Johnny is no good.

[PurplePop]

Small schools don't need to hire real baseball coaches. All the Dads know everything there is to know about baseball. They are just are to blind to see their little Johnny is no good.

Oftentimes the worst thing for a player is a real baseball coach. No one can screw up a good swing like a real baseball coach.

[Rabid Cougar]

Horrible rule!
All because some kid in Kansas threw 159 pitches in a 10 inning game last year in the play offs. That's 15 pitches an inning. They actually suspended the coach and the kid for doing that.
So its okay for a kid to go up and throw 45 pitches in the first inning? And please. A high school baseball coach that knows about pitch mechanics? About as rare as a unicorn.

And they have one school in each district as the designated master of the pitch count. Yea. Who is going to keep track of an accurate pitch count. Let me guess... The base umpire. Hide and watch.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Put in that kid that can master the foul ball and drive up a pitch count to get the pitcher out of there.

[stardog]

Horrible rule!
All because some kid in Kansas threw 159 pitches in a 10 inning game last year in the play offs. That's 15 pitches an inning. They actually suspended the coach and the kid for doing that.
So its okay for a kid to go up and throw 45 pitches in the first inning? And please. A high school baseball coach that knows about pitch mechanics? About as rare as a unicorn.

And they have one school in each district as the designated master of the pitch count. Yea. Who is going to keep track of an accurate pitch count. Let me guess... The base umpire. Hide and watch.

The 'hometown' score keeper .

[panfan]

Horrible rule!
All because some kid in Kansas threw 159 pitches in a 10 inning game last year in the play offs. That's 15 pitches an inning. They actually suspended the coach and the kid for doing that.
So its okay for a kid to go up and throw 45 pitches in the first inning? And please. A high school baseball coach that knows about pitch mechanics? About as rare as a unicorn.

And they have one school in each district as the designated master of the pitch count. Yea. Who is going to keep track of an accurate pitch count. Let me guess... The base umpire. Hide and watch.

My daughter threw 274 pitches this past weekend in Houston across 4.5 games. Boys are a bunch of wimps when it comes to baseball and pitch counts. :wave:

[Scoop27]

Typical UIL screwing things up. Who will be responsible for enforcing pitch count rules? the home team scorekeeper in the press box which keeps the scorebook? coaches from each team?

[Rabid Cougar]

My daughter threw 274 pitches this past weekend in Houston across 4.5 games. Boys are a bunch of wimps when it comes to baseball and pitch counts. :wave:

Meh!... It's softball.

[Rabid Cougar]

Put in that kid that can master the foul ball and drive up a pitch count to get the pitcher out of there.

^^^^^this and every player takes two pitches...

[Weebe]

Typical UIL screwing things up. Who will be responsible for enforcing pitch count rules? the home team scorekeeper in the press box which keeps the scorebook? coaches from each team?

This isn't rocket science.

And this rule was necessary. I can't tell you how many times I've seen pitchers throw 120+ pitches in a 7 innings game.

[coach]

My daughter threw 274 pitches this past weekend in Houston across 4.5 games. Boys are a bunch of wimps when it comes to baseball and pitch counts. :wave:

It's softball. Not a real sport. Doesn't count.

[pancho villa]

standaround isn't a real sport. Just a place for non-athletes to have something to do.

[Rabid Cougar]

This isn't rocket science.

And this rule was necessary. I can't tell you how many times I've seen pitchers throw 120+ pitches in a 7 innings game.

that's 17 pitches an inning. How many times have you seen a high schooler go out and throw 35 pitches in the 1st and come right back out and do it again in the 2nd??? Way more than you have seen one that throws 17 an inning for the entire game. Which is worse?

How many times have your seen a kid throw 10 pitches and becomes a Tommy John stat?

Nolan Ryan threw 235 pitches in a 10 inning game in 1974.... it hurt him so bad he retired 17 years later.

[Weebe]

that's 17 pitches an inning. How many times have you seen a high schooler go out and throw 35 pitches in the 1st and come right back out and do it again in the 2nd??? Way more than you have seen one that throws 17 an inning for the entire game. Which is worse?

How many times have your seen a kid throw 10 pitches and becomes a Tommy John stat?

Nolan Ryan threw 235 pitches in a 10 inning game in 1974.... it hurt him so bad he retired 17 years later.

I'm not aware of any reputable pitching or medical gurus that advocate a per innings pitch count on a pitcher. It's not practical.

And are you really comparing Nolan Ryan(possibly the most durable pitcher of all time) to a high school kid?

If so, my best friend threw 185 pitches in a playoff double header in high school. He blew out his arm that same season. Clearly, that negates your Nolan Ryan example...

[coach]

I think it is embarrassing that we have to even have this rule. Have some common sense for pete's sake. You ar an idiot if you think you are doing a team or kid good having him throw 110+ pitches.

[pirate4state]

Small schools don't need to hire real baseball coaches. All the Dads know everything there is to know about baseball. They are just are to blind to see their little Johnny is no good.

:clap: :clap: Bravo!

[stardog]

How many remember or know of David Clyde story. Drafted right out of high school by Texas Rangers, went straight to big league. Didn't last but 5 season.

[coach]

How many remember or know of David Clyde story. Drafted right out of high school by Texas Rangers, went straight to big league. Didn't last but 5 season.

You can add Kerry Wood to that devastation of a career too.

[duckhunter]

I'm not too crazy about that. The only thing it really affects is the playoffs. And, once you get to the playoffs, sometimes extraordinary effort is required. These kids are doing way more damage to their arms in select leagues in the summer and fall and before they even get to high school.

this rule will have a large effect on 4a's and lower. you will see it come in to play big time during playoffs and tourny time....like xman said it will somewhat even the playing field for teams that have several decent pitchers against the team that has one ace. It will also highlight the crappy pitching that many teams have.....those saturday games during tourny season may be brutal to watch

[Rabid Cougar]

I'm not aware of any reputable pitching or medical gurus that advocate a per innings pitch count on a pitcher. It's not practical.

And are you really comparing Nolan Ryan(possibly the most durable pitcher of all time) to a high school kid?

If so, my best friend threw 185 pitches in a playoff double header in high school. He blew out his arm that same season. Clearly, that negates your Nolan Ryan example...


Doesn't negate anything. Did he blow it because he threw 185 pitches or because there was something wrong in his mechanics. Was he not decelerating properly? Was he "all arm" and no body? He could have very easily blown it after 15 pitches in the first game play off game. (Not to minimalize his injury by the way.)

The examples of Clyde and Woods are people who had mechanical issues with their deceleration that pretty much guaranteed they were going to have issues. It was just a matter of time.

In regards to Ryan, what made him the most durable pitcher of all time? What does Ryan and Justin Verlander have in common?

[XMan]

Scoop, Im thinking that since you are a member of the media, you should interview some of the coaches in your area and give us the results. Let us know how they think this will change the game. What are they planning to do differently, what have they been doing in the offseason to develop more pitchers/teaching pitchers to beat the pitch count by throwing strikes. What have they dont to teach the pitchers strikes/control. It would be real interesting to get their views.

[speedbump]

Doesn't negate anything. Did he blow it because he threw 185 pitches or because there was something wrong in his mechanics. Was he not decelerating properly? Was he "all arm" and no body? He could have very easily blown it after 15 pitches in the first game play off game. (Not to minimalize his injury by the way.)

The examples of Clyde and Woods are people who had mechanical issues with their deceleration that pretty much guaranteed they were going to have issues. It was just a matter of time.

In regards to Ryan, what made him the most durable pitcher of all time? What does Ryan and Justin Verlander have in common?

Ryan was the exception. How many pitchers are done in HS,college or the lower MLs because their arm falls off. What would your guess be - 100 for every Ryan? 200? a thousand? Terrible example.

[GreenMonster]

Ride him till he bucks ya, then climb back on him and put the spurs to him for a couple more hitters!

[pancho villa]

Ride him till he bucks ya, then climb back on him and put the spurs to him for a couple more hitters!

I see the Green Monster has reared his ugly head from the depths of the diamond.

[refereedoc]

Doesn't negate anything. Did he blow it because he threw 185 pitches or because there was something wrong in his mechanics. Was he not decelerating properly? Was he "all arm" and no body? He could have very easily blown it after 15 pitches in the first game play off game. (Not to minimalize his injury by the way.)

The examples of Clyde and Woods are people who had mechanical issues with their deceleration that pretty much guaranteed they were going to have issues. It was just a matter of time.

In regards to Ryan, what made him the most durable pitcher of all time? What does Ryan and Justin Verlander have in common?

Some coaches are responsible in burning up a kid in HS, I don't see a problem with it. You are comparing a mature adult to a still maturing young man that has not had time to develop fully. Nolan Ryan was a freak of nature and also had great training habits.

[PurplePop]

My only real problem with this is the 110 pitch max. An 18 year old or 19 year old high school pitcher should be able to throw more than 110 pitches in a game at the coach's discretion.

[stardog]

New Rule For Pitchers:

Saw on sport news that UIL will implement new baseball pitcher count rule.

---required to rest days will be dependent upon previous pitch count

0 - 30 pitches = 0 days rest
31 - 45 pitches = 1 days rest
46 - 65 pitches = 2 days rest
66 - 85 pitches = 3 days rest
86 -110 pitches = 4 days rest

didn't say if pitcher has to come out after 110 pitches

As noted didn't say if 110 was limit - and how would this be enforced ?

[PurplePop]

As noted didn't say if 110 was limit - and how would this be enforced ?

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/high-schools/2016/10/16/uil-tomake-pitch-count-limit-official-monday-full-rules

"The pitch count regulations state that all high school players -- no matter their age -- will be limited to 110 pitches in a game. A player would also be limited to a total of 110 pitches total in a postseason series. If a game is postponed in such a way that a team must play back-to-back games, those games will be considered a series... If the limit comes in the middle of an at bat, a pitcher can finish that at bat."

[waterboy]

These new rules show to be pending approval by the Commissioner of Education according to the UIL website.

[XMan]

If you need more than 115 pitches to pitch 7 innings, you are not being an effective pitcher more times than not. In a well pitched high school game, you can finish at 100 pretty easily. Its going to make pitchers be more efficient, it may encourage some teams to take pitches, and it will make you have more than 1 hoss pitcher. You will need to have at least 2 pitchers ready for each game and if your hoss pitches his 85+ on Tues, he wont be able to go on Fri. So, you will need at least 3 or 4 pitchers to make it through your district season. Coaches that can develop pitchers will be in good shape, coaches that are more of an offensive lineman/defensive coordinator kind, will be in a bind. Its going to become very evident, very quickly which coaches penciled in "played a little bit in little league" on their job application where it asked what their baseball coaching credentials are.

[PurplePop]

If you need more than 115 pitches to pitch 7 innings, you are not being an effective pitcher more times than not. In a well pitched high school game, you can finish at 100 pretty easily. Its going to make pitchers be more efficient, it may encourage some teams to take pitches, and it will make you have more than 1 hoss pitcher. You will need to have at least 2 pitchers ready for each game and if your hoss pitches his 85+ on Tues, he wont be able to go on Fri. So, you will need at least 3 or 4 pitchers to make it through your district season. Coaches that can develop pitchers will be in good shape, coaches that are more of an offensive lineman/defensive coordinator kind, will be in a bind. Its going to become very evident, very quickly which coaches penciled in "played a little bit in little league" on their job application where it asked what their baseball coaching credentials are.

All good points. What if it's the state championship and you've saved your 18 year old ace. You're ace is your last eligible pitcher good enough to get outs in the SC game against the no. 1 team in the state. He's pitched very well but the other team has this pesky lead off hitter who has drawn a couple of walks on long 12 pitch at bats. Other than those 24 pitches, your ace has gotten 18 outs with the another 85 pitches, and he's at 109 pitches starting the 7th. You're up 2 to 1 and your 18 year old ace is feeling strong. He gets a grounder to short on their lead off hitter in the 7th on his 112th pitch but the shortstop throws it away and the batter ends up on 2nd. Your ace blows away their no. 2 hitter on three strikes, and he's at 115. You've got a little used sophomore warming up in the bullpen. Stupid rule. It's not baseball. And, I guarantee you it will happen.

[Weebe]

All good points. What if it's the state championship and you've saved your 18 year old ace. You're ace is your last eligible pitcher good enough to get outs in the SC game against the no. 1 team in the state. He's pitched very well but the other team has this pesky lead off hitter who has drawn a couple of walks on long 12 pitch at bats. Other than those 24 pitches, your ace has gotten 18 outs with the another 85 pitches, and he's at 109 pitches starting the 7th. You're up 2 to 1 and your 18 year old ace is feeling strong. He gets a grounder to short on their lead off hitter in the 7th on his 112th pitch but the shortstop throws it away and the batter ends up on 2nd. Your ace blows away their no. 2 hitter on three strikes, and he's at 115. You've got a little used sophomore warming up in the bullpen. Stupid rule. It's not baseball. And, I guarantee you it will happen.

So, how do you balance the "it's not baseball argument" with the coaches who throw their pitchers 130-140 pitches?

[SintonFan_inAustin]

All good points. What if it's the state championship and you've saved your 18 year old ace. You're ace is your last eligible pitcher good enough to get outs in the SC game against the no. 1 team in the state. He's pitched very well but the other team has this pesky lead off hitter who has drawn a couple of walks on long 12 pitch at bats. Other than those 24 pitches, your ace has gotten 18 outs with the another 85 pitches, and he's at 109 pitches starting the 7th. You're up 2 to 1 and your 18 year old ace is feeling strong. He gets a grounder to short on their lead off hitter in the 7th on his 112th pitch but the shortstop throws it away and the batter ends up on 2nd. Your ace blows away their no. 2 hitter on three strikes, and he's at 115. You've got a little used sophomore warming up in the bullpen. Stupid rule. It's not baseball. And, I guarantee you it will happen.Majority of the time in state tourney teams pitch their ace in semi final round, it's a must win to get to final. Some teams that make it usually have good depth with a strong ace.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

So, how do you balance the "it's not baseball argument" with the coaches who throw their pitchers 130-140 pitches?There will be some long ball games with some teams that just don't have pitching to send out there some are already limited with 1 or 2 decent pitchers and struggle with depth most likely to school not being a baseball program.

[PurplePop]

So, how do you balance the "it's not baseball argument" with the coaches who throw their pitchers 130-140 pitches?

Fire the idiot coach. I've never seen a high school pitcher get to 130. I doubt I've ever seen one get to 120.

[SintonFan_inAustin]

Fire the idiot coach. I've never seen a high school pitcher get to 130. I doubt I've ever seen one get to 120.hmm seen plenty of games mostly extra inning games seen pitchers go 8,9,10,11 innings over the years.

[Weebe]

Fire the idiot coach. I've never seen a high school pitcher get to 130. I doubt I've ever seen one get to 120.

I've seen it more times than I can count.

And that's the problem. They don't get fired. So the Uil has to step in.

[wyliefan]

It happened just last June in the State Tournament in 4a - the kid from Salado pitched 94 in game one and pitched another 27 the next day (121). Salado only pitched 6 innings since Wylie was winning, but if the game was tied, I would assume he would have pitched the 7th or more if needed.

The two Wylie pitchers threw 95 and 89 pitches in complete games by comparison.

On a side note the 4a games were the only games that had total pitch count in the box score this year on the UIL site.

[PurplePop]

I've seen it more times than I can count.

And that's the problem. They don't get fired. So the Uil has to step in.

What do politicians say? I'll try to walk back some of my earlier comments. X-man is right. 115 pitches is plenty to get through a 7 inning game if you're pitching well. And, if you're not, you have no business being in there anyway. I've seen about 50 high school games and I've never seen a coach ride a pitcher into extra innings or into the 130's. But if it is happening a lot, it needs to stop. But, dang it, I just hate to see the rule mess up a great game.

[XMan]

All good points. What if it's the state championship and you've saved your 18 year old ace. You're ace is your last eligible pitcher good enough to get outs in the SC game against the no. 1 team in the state. He's pitched very well but the other team has this pesky lead off hitter who has drawn a couple of walks on long 12 pitch at bats. Other than those 24 pitches, your ace has gotten 18 outs with the another 85 pitches, and he's at 109 pitches starting the 7th. You're up 2 to 1 and your 18 year old ace is feeling strong. He gets a grounder to short on their lead off hitter in the 7th on his 112th pitch but the shortstop throws it away and the batter ends up on 2nd. Your ace blows away their no. 2 hitter on three strikes, and he's at 115. You've got a little used sophomore warming up in the bullpen. Stupid rule. It's not baseball. And, I guarantee you it will happen.


This is where actual coaching come in. First off, you wont be in the state championship if you only have 1 or 2 guys. Somewhere along the lines be it tournaments or district or 3 game series, you will have to establish pitching depth. Coaches will need to start developing these #s 3, 4, and 5 guys right about now. To avoid the above situation, this is what should happen. 1) Coach develops at least 4 pitchers. 2) Day before any game coach should talk to the 3 guys that should be ready for the game. Let the starter know he is starting and tell the relievers the tentative plan. 3) Monitor the pitch count each inning. If/when pitcher gets behind in pitch count (15/inn) you do several things A) you tell the pitcher to start catching white early in the count and try to avoid deep counts. Challenge early, get an 8-10 pitch inning to catch up. B) tell the first reliever that starter is behind so that he can start to prepare. C) have a plan where you will move everyone around if starter gets the hook. The coach shouldnt wait till the pitch count gets to 100 to start preparing. Example, pitcher loads bases first 2 innings but gets out of it without damage but throws 25 and 20 pitches. He is not at 45, 15 above the 30 he should be at. The coach now knows that the starter is looking at 6 inns max unless he can get some quick innings. Its all about being prepared and having the plan in place long before the season starts. If your coach does the little league thing and waits til the pitcher gets to 110 and then walks to the mound to ask if any of the infielders have ever pitched before, he just may be semi-pro.

[PurplePop]

All good points. What if it's the state championship and you've saved your 18 year old ace. You're ace is your last eligible pitcher good enough to get outs in the SC game against the no. 1 team in the state. He's pitched very well but the other team has this pesky lead off hitter who has drawn a couple of walks on long 12 pitch at bats. Other than those 24 pitches, your ace has gotten 18 outs with the another 85 pitches, and he's at 109 pitches starting the 7th. You're up 2 to 1 and your 18 year old ace is feeling strong. He gets a grounder to short on their lead off hitter in the 7th on his 112th pitch but the shortstop throws it away and the batter ends up on 2nd. Your ace blows away their no. 2 hitter on three strikes, and he's at 115. You've got a little used sophomore warming up in the bullpen. Stupid rule. It's not baseball. And, I guarantee you it will happen.


This is where actual coaching come in. First off, you wont be in the state championship if you only have 1 or 2 guys. Somewhere along the lines be it tournaments or district or 3 game series, you will have to establish pitching depth. Coaches will need to start developing these #s 3, 4, and 5 guys right about now. To avoid the above situation, this is what should happen. 1) Coach develops at least 4 pitchers. 2) Day before any game coach should talk to the 3 guys that should be ready for the game. Let the starter know he is starting and tell the relievers the tentative plan. 3) Monitor the pitch count each inning. If/when pitcher gets behind in pitch count (15/inn) you do several things A) you tell the pitcher to start catching white early in the count and try to avoid deep counts. Challenge early, get an 8-10 pitch inning to catch up. B) tell the first reliever that starter is behind so that he can start to prepare. C) have a plan where you will move everyone around if starter gets the hook. The coach shouldnt wait till the pitch count gets to 100 to start preparing. Example, pitcher loads bases first 2 innings but gets out of it without damage but throws 25 and 20 pitches. He is not at 45, 15 above the 30 he should be at. The coach now knows that the starter is looking at 6 inns max unless he can get some quick innings. Its all about being prepared and having the plan in place long before the season starts. If your coach does the little league thing and waits til the pitcher gets to 110 and then walks to the mound to ask if any of the infielders have ever pitched before, he just may be semi-pro.

An actual coach doesn't need the new rule because an actual coach rarely, if ever, has a high school pitcher go over 115 pitches. But, apparently from reading this thread, there are a bunch of bad Texas high school baseball coaches who need to be told when to take their pitcher out.

[GreenMonster]

I see the Green Monster has reared his ugly head from the depths of the diamond.

I don't see where any of this is valid, I have my QB throw over 100 balls just in our pat n go session of pre-practice and an additional 65 - 70 in practice every day! Why would he have any problem throwing 130 pitches twice a week in the spring? If his arm is hurting he's not in shape and needs to run more foul poles.

[Macarthur]

I am an example of someone whose arm was used up in HS. By the time I was mid-way through my freshman year in college, I had enough. I was also a QB and threw lots of passes over the years.

THere is a very significant difference in arm velocity in throwing a FB versus a baseball. That is what puts the pressure on the arm of a pitcher. much more stress throwing a baseball.