Houston attendance

[Bosqueville]

Granted I'm not there, but by the looks of it the crowds aren't near what they were in Arlington for the smaller school games.

[Sweetwater Red]

Granted I'm not there, but by the looks of it the crowds aren't near what they were in Arlington for the smaller school games.

Agreed, stadium sounds almost cavenous.

[regaleagle]

My brother says that wouldn't show up......the Houstonians......and he's right. He says it's just not a football town.....even with the Texans there. He's talking about fans that don't have kids playing. Says it's just too multi-cultural, and many of those don't follow football.

[Bosqueville]

The UIL talks politically correct but if they don't show up in Houston I can see it staying in Arlington.

[Txbroadcaster]

They had to try it here.

Tonight's game and tomorrow's game will boost the numbers.

[Saggy Aggie]

They had to try it here.

Tonight's game and tomorrow's game will boost the numbers.

How do they compare to previous years?

these games being televised has got to affect attendance this year and last.

My experience isn't any better or worse here compared to cowpies stadium

[regaleagle]

Bottom line is lots of people are off for the holidays and its Friday, but they didn't show up. For a city the size of Houston with all its suburbia also that's a sad statement....nothing positive about it whatsoever. Waco would have drew more at McLane......maybe Shotwell too, LOL. Just kidding about Shotwell, but you git my drift.

[duckhunter]

You Dallas people crack me up.... To think more people would attend if it was at Mcclane is hilarious. Saturday's game will fix y'all's attendance complaints.

[Rabid Cougar]

You Dallas people crack me up.... To think more people would attend if it was at Mcclane is hilarious. Saturday's game will fix y'all's attendance complaints.

You would be surprised. Play off ball games at McLanes, WISD and Midway draws very well in Waco.

[Txbroadcaster]

You would be surprised. Play off ball games at McLanes, WISD and Midway draws very well in Waco.

Never happen at an outside place.

[Scoop27]

Katy fans will turnout in droves tomorrow night

[Txbroadcaster]

And remember...Argyle..Allen..Cedar Hill..Ennis...HUGE fan bases were in it last year

add the East Texas teams who are used too traveling to DFW already...last year was built for success

[Bosqueville]

Matt Stepp ‏@Matt_Stepp817 1 hour ago

Argyle vs. LaVega attendance 7,932; last years 4A Div. I title game had 20,853...yikes #txhsfb #UILState @TheOldCoach
22 retweets 14 likes

[duckhunter]

Matt Stepp ‏@Matt_Stepp817 1 hour ago

Argyle vs. LaVega attendance 7,932; last years 4A Div. I title game had 20,853...yikes #txhsfb #UILState @TheOldCoach
22 retweets 14 likes

Those numbers do not mean anything. It all depends on how far the teams have to travel in relation to attendance.

Same thing as saying if the games were in Dallas and it would be the match up of port Isabel vs China spring. I promise 20,000 people wouldn't be there. If you think different it is because you are drunk on the Dallas cool aid

[WOS87]

The WOS side was completely full for their game. There were George Ranch people waiting to get seats. I'm assuming they'll open the top deck tomorrow? Katy is 35 minutes and North Shore is less than 15 minutes away from the stadium and the 3 Austin area teams should fill the place up.

[hollywood]

And remember...Argyle..Allen..Cedar Hill..Ennis...HUGE fan bases were in it last year

add the East Texas teams who are used too traveling to DFW already...last year was built for success

Great point. Look at how far 2 of the 2A schools had to travel... Canadian and Albany. Relitively smallish fan bases combined with long travel distances result in lower attendance. Tomorrow's games will be rockin'!

[Saggy Aggie]

It's gonna be nuts for the Katy game

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Those numbers do not mean anything. It all depends on how far the teams have to travel in relation to attendance.

Same thing as saying if the games were in Dallas and it would be the match up of port Isabel vs China spring. I promise 20,000 people wouldn't be there. If you think different it is because you are drunk on the Dallas cool aid

I had to chuckle on this one. I love how you used Port Isabel to prove your point, and it's spot on. Though I would have used a Region 1 team like.... oh..... Dalhart or something. Port Isabel vs. Dalhart in Arlington. Not many people would show up for that even though Port Isabel has a large following. Not many will be willing to drive 10-11 hours from Port Isabel, they would rather stay home and watch the game on TV. Which leads me to my other point. Too many DFW area fans, IMHO, got spoiled with driving less than 100 miles to watch championship games for the past 4-5 years, and now that it's in Houston this year, they aren't willing to sacrifice the gas, mileage, and extra drive time to watch the Texas High School Football they "supposedly" love so much.

[WOS87]

It's all about $ for the UIL bottomline. If they actually wanted to be considerate they'd have it in San Antonio until Austin builds an indoor stadium (which given that the city will have over a million people by the next census may not be too long away). Tomorrow will tell the tale. I guarantee all of the Houston Area High School fans will fill the place up tomorrow with North Shore and Katy playing and Austin will bring a crowd with 3 teams playing. I heard somewhere the WOS-Celina game had a bigger crowd than Argyle-La Vega. WOS had ALL of SE Texas there including Beaumont, Port Arthur, PNG, Nederland, Newton fans all representing. A lot of it also depends on who's playing. There are SO many teams that haven't even been in existence for even 6 years playing this year so they don't have that history or tradition and thus the followers. I was there at the beginning of the George Ranch game and the Mansfield side was half-empty.

Katy, North Shore, Westlake, Lake Travis and Cedar Park ALL have a HUGE fan base and previous wins in the past (close to 20 state championships between just the 5 of them - and that's counting North Shore and Westlake only having one each but consistently amazing seasons over the past 20 years) and its easier and closer for all of them to get to NRG than to AT&T... so tomorrow should be huge.

[Aesculus gilmus]

I think Gilmer would have brought almost as good a crowd to Houston, but we never got to test that prediction.

Since FSSW is based in Irving, I was actually a bit surprised Craig and Brad were not EVEN MORE BIASED in favor of Celina. And they almost seemed neutral in the Argyle game, which just blew me away.

They did make sure to point out at least once every five minutes or so what a devastating blow it had been for Pingleton to get hurt and what a different game it would have been if he were in there.

What would have really been cool would have been to bring back Craig JAMES and have him do commentary on the Celina game. :crazy:

I can hear it now. Craig Way: "The kicker just hooked that field goal attempt. So let me turn to my broadcast partner, Craig James, who I've heard knows a thing or two about hookers."

[HEMOTOXIC]

Matt Stepp ‏@Matt_Stepp817 1 hour ago

Argyle vs. LaVega attendance 7,932; last years 4A Div. I title game had 20,853...yikes #txhsfb #UILState @TheOldCoach
22 retweets 14 likes

Navasota would have had that many fans alone plus some.

[rico]

Those numbers do not mean anything. It all depends on how far the teams have to travel in relation to attendance.

Same thing as saying if the games were in Dallas and it would be the match up of port Isabel vs China spring. I promise 20,000 people wouldn't be there. If you think different it is because you are drunk on the Dallas cool aid
If Port Isabel was in the State Championship I guarantee 10,000 would show up from PI and the Rio Grande Valley!

[Rabid Cougar]

Never happen at an outside place.

Not my point. Although the 6 A games would fill it up. Southlake Carroll and San Angelo Central did a very good job of it last year during the playoffs.

[oldtownag]

La Vega had 1/2 the fans Carthage had at the semi-final game. Argyle never has impressed me with attendance. Those two coupled with the noon start were just going to have a poor showing.

[XX Man]

The UIL talks politically correct but if they don't show up in Houston I can see it staying in Arlington.

I have been to the play offs in Dallas, and there were just as many people showed up at NRG, as they did at Cowboy stadium. I hope it stays in Houston, or at the furthest, the Alamo Dome. Dallas is just too far for most of the state.

[Matthew328]

This is 100% IMO about the general, unattached football fan in Houston not showing up for these games. The school's hard core fans will show up but to get the huge crowds at AT&T you had locals who had no affiliation to the teams but just general football fans showing up. It's not the case in Houston, everyone says "oh we will show up when x team plays" well what about the other 9 games?? People in DFW and surrounding areas make a weekend of it..a lot of unattached fans show up for all the games...

Houston has done a great job hosting but HOUSTON needs to come out and support this great event...because the UIL has the paper trail now to never bring it back now. The attendance is flat out awful....

[Saggy Aggie]

This is 100% IMO about the general, unattached football fan in Houston not showing up for these games. The school's hard core fans will show up but to get the huge crowds at AT&T you had locals who had no affiliation to the teams but just general football fans showing up. It's not the case in Houston, everyone says "oh we will show up when x team plays" well what about the other 9 games?? People in DFW and surrounding areas make a weekend of it..a lot of unattached fans show up for all the games...

Houston has done a great job hosting but HOUSTON needs to come out and support this great event...because the UIL has the paper trail now to never bring it back now. The attendance is flat out awful....

That may be partially true but the teams playing in it this year is a huge contributing factor as well

You can't sit here and tell me 2 new 5A schools would've matched Ennis' attendance if it was in Dallas. It wouldn't have been significantly different in Dallas. Their fan base just is not there yet, bottom line

[Aesculus gilmus]

The attendance is flat out awful....

Cmon, man. Show some mercy. Oil is at $35 a barrel. The people in Houston all just lost their jobs or will next year when oil goes to $20.

[speedbump]

This is 100% IMO about the general, unattached football fan in Houston not showing up for these games. The school's hard core fans will show up but to get the huge crowds at AT&T you had locals who had no affiliation to the teams but just general football fans showing up. It's not the case in Houston, everyone says "oh we will show up when x team plays" well what about the other 9 games?? People in DFW and surrounding areas make a weekend of it..a lot of unattached fans show up for all the games...

Houston has done a great job hosting but HOUSTON needs to come out and support this great event...because the UIL has the paper trail now to never bring it back now. The attendance is flat out awful....

Houston needs to get it three years in a row. Then make comparisons.

[Weebe]

Katy and Lake Travis may set the attendance record.

[chaingang]

WOS vs Celina was right under 14k I believe. I stayed for GR and LR. If they had more, wasn't by much. WOS didn't just bring the City of Orange and West Orange, but the whole Orange County!

[Matthew328]

Houston needs to get it three years in a row. Then make comparisons.

If you compare this year to 2011....we are still short 35k

I find it amusing Houston folks are complaining about DFW folks not coming when Houston folks aren't coming when its in their backyard

[Saggy Aggie]

If you compare this year to 2011....we are still short 35k

I find it amusing Houston folks are complaining about DFW folks not coming when Houston folks aren't coming when its in their backyard
So you're just going to continue to ignore who's playing?

[Matthew328]

There's no doubt the teams playing have smaller fan bases that are contributing....but the crowds have been smaller all weekend and a lot of the same teams were at AT&T last year.....so whats the excuse there??

For an event to have success it needs local support...DFW supports the state title games...Houston's not...that's the talk from Houston people as well...I hate it for Houston but it doesn't change the reality of it

[speedbump]

There's no doubt the teams playing have smaller fan bases that are contributing....but the crowds have been smaller all weekend and a lot of the same teams were at AT&T last year.....so whats the excuse there??

For an event to have success it needs local support...DFW supports the state title games...Houston's not...that's the talk from Houston people as well...I hate it for Houston but it doesn't change the reality of it

So it's only a success if Houston has higher attendance numbers than DFW? Oh, ok -LOL At least in Houston the fans come for the games and not the scoreboard.

[Scoop27]

I knew the attendance would be low even thought Houston's 4 TV station networks promoted it. Just a different breed of people down here compared to Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington area. Even Houston ISD teams don't draw big crowds for their games or get student body support. Pearland, Katy and Fort Bend ISD teams get bigger crowds and some 3A and 4A teams draw bigger.
I still think there will be a big turnout for the Katy game tonight

[Matthew328]

So it's only a success if Houston has higher attendance numbers than DFW? Oh, ok -LOL At least in Houston the fans come for the games and not the scoreboard.

Not at all...I think seeing similar numbers to 2011 would be a success....but we aren't even coming close to that...not even close

[Matthew328]

So it's only a success if Houston has higher attendance numbers than DFW? Oh, ok -LOL At least in Houston the fans come for the games and not the scoreboard.

They obviously aren't coming for the games because they aren't here

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

They obviously aren't coming for the games because they aren't here

Houston fans ARE coming to the games. It's the DFW and San Antonio fans that are glaringly absent. And I've seen tons of Laredo, Corpus Christi and RGV fans at the games. Face it, DFW area fans aren't bothering to come for two reasons.

1. None of the bigger drawing teams (SLC, Trinity, Allen, etc.) made it to the Championships
2. Eew.......Houston.

And don't try to deny #2, I lived in the DFW area for 6 years and I know all to well DFW folks absoulutely detest Houston

[Bosqueville]

And don't try to deny #2, I lived in the DFW area for 6 years and I know all to well DFW folks absoulutely detest Houston

It isn't just DFW folks, we central Texas people aren't fond of Houston either..

[Saggy Aggie]

Houston fans ARE coming to the games. It's the DFW and San Antonio fans that are glaringly absent. And I've seen tons of Laredo, Corpus Christi and RGV fans at the games. Face it, DFW area fans aren't bothering to come for two reasons.

1. None of the bigger drawing teams (SLC, Trinity, Allen, etc.) made it to the Championships
2. Eew.......Houston.

And don't try to deny #2, I lived in the DFW area for 6 years and I know all to well DFW folks absoulutely detest Houston

But Houston people like me DID travel to dallas. So maybe it's the Dallas people to blame for Houston having low attendance?

It's like reverse racism lol

[Matthew328]

Guess we agree to disagree because I'm not seeing it...but maybe these last 2 games will have nice crowds...if they dont then there's really no excuse....

[slingshot]

Houston fans ARE coming to the games. It's the DFW and San Antonio fans that are glaringly absent. And I've seen tons of Laredo, Corpus Christi and RGV fans at the games. Face it, DFW area fans aren't bothering to come for two reasons.

1. None of the bigger drawing teams (SLC, Trinity, Allen, etc.) made it to the Championships
2. Eew.......Houston.

And don't try to deny #2, I lived in the DFW area for 6 years and I know all to well DFW folks absoulutely detest HoustonTruth be known, everyone from outside of a 50 mile radius of Harris County detests Houston.

[WOS87]

Austin isn't held in the highest regard either given the population in that metro area has more than tripled in the past 20-30 years and the infrastructure hasn't even come close to keeping up. I'll take Houston traffic, airports, universities, hospitals, restaurants and arts and entertainment scene over any other city within 1000 miles. We also have four major professional sports stadiums all built relatively recently in NRG, Minute Maid, Toyota Center and BBVA Compass. Not to mention Rice U stadium which holds 70,000. Despite all the hateration H Town remains the fastest growing city in Texas in actual number of people moving here and will pass Chicago in less than 10 years.

AND most importantly... It's less than a two hour drive to my entire family in Orange! :)

People are attached to the areas they grew up in. You can all say "Ewww Houston" just like we say the same thing right back at ya. "Ewww Dallas a bunch of new money snobs."

All that being said the UIL is gonna go where the money is. So gratz Dallas. You and Highland Park will get your way as it has always been with the UIL since the Scotties and their cash have had them in their pocket since the 1930's.

[WOS87]

Truth be known, everyone from outside of a 50 mile radius of Harris County detests Houston.

Do you really wanna go there? That's very true but not for a very noble reason. I grew up in southeast Texas surrounded by towns that were 99.8% homogenous in a certain way.

[Aesculus gilmus]

H Town remains the fastest growing city in Texas in actual number of people moving here.

That's why no one wants to go there. It's like Yogi Berra said about a restaurant: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/y/yogiberra100418.html

[WOS87]

That's why no one wants to go there. It's like Yogi Berra said about a restaurant: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/y/yogiberra100418.html



LOL nice quote! I like that. I sometimes forget I'm a very big city kind of guy. I moved here when I was 17 to go to college but most here on the site are from small towns and are still there. I appreciate both atmospheres but you'd hear a lot of whining from me and some kicking and screaming if I had to live back in Orange 100% of the time. So kinda the opposite view for me... to each his own. There is no correct answer.

[Saggy Aggie]

Best city in the world :)

[FB-fanatic]

I've mentioned it before, but we have a group of 6-10 Waco-area guys who love Texas high school football. Dallas is 1 1/2 hours, Houston 2 1/2 hours. Not that much difference. I know all of us would have loved to watch and support LaVega, but all of us lost interest in the thought of traveling to NRG and Houston and didn't go after 4 years running.

[speedbump]

They obviously aren't coming for the games because they aren't here


BS The football fans are here. Add a dumbotron and carnival atmosphere to attract a few more thousand and you're almost there. To make it the rest of the way would require a better following from the DFW area. That's not Houstons problem.

[Matthew328]

BS The football fans are here. Add a dumbotron and carnival atmosphere to attract a few more thousand and you're almost there. To make it the rest of the way would require a better following from the DFW area. That's not Houstons problem.

A lot of folks who live in Houston and know the fan bases here disagree....

[Matthew328]

North Shore-Westlake is 28,841....whats the excuse now?

[Saggy Aggie]

North Shore-Westlake is 28,841....whats the excuse now?

Idk, ask the Lorena guy. Apparently an hour difference for him is too much. The convenience of not being in DFW is too much too overcome for the mediocre fans.

I went to Dallas the last couple years and of course went to Houston as well.

I think the overall reduction in attendance is attributed to many things.

1) Houston economy struggling hard with 34$ oil
2) first year in Houston
3) bunch of new schools with small following playing for state
4) unwillingness of spoiled DFW and surrounding area people to make the trip

[1stnurseryman]

We played WOS in Houston last week... The wife and I stayed for the weekend and went Christmas shopping had a great time.. Traffic was no worse than any other big city..

[speedbump]

North Shore-Westlake is 28,841....whats the excuse now?

There have been some great games, those in attendance are having a good time, so what makes you think excuses are needed?

[FB-fanatic]

Idk, ask the Lorena guy. Apparently an hour difference for him is too much. The convenience of not being in DFW is too much too overcome for the mediocre fans.

I went to Dallas the last couple years and of course went to Houston as well.

I think the overall reduction in attendance is attributed to many things.

1) Houston economy struggling hard with 34$ oil
2) first year in Houston
3) bunch of new schools with small following playing for state
4) unwillingness of spoiled DFW and surrounding area people to make the trip

Lorena Guy has spoken - play in Dallas, I'm there. Play in Houston, I'm not. Guess a lot of other fans feel the same way.

[Roughneck93]

I've mentioned it before, but we have a group of 6-10 Waco-area guys who love Texas high school football. Dallas is 1 1/2 hours, Houston 2 1/2 hours. Not that much difference. I know all of us would have loved to watch and support LaVega, but all of us lost interest in the thought of traveling to NRG and Houston and didn't go after 4 years running.

Lol, really? Just because it's in Houston? Wow....

Boo...:thmbdwn:

[Saggy Aggie]

Lorena Guy has spoken - play in Dallas, I'm there. Play in Houston, I'm not. Guess a lot of other fans feel the same way.

Must be the jumbotron. Gotta have something to keep the non-football fans and wives entertained

[FB-fanatic]

So Aggie, from another Aggie, you're a dip. Fans prefer Dallas, the numbers are proving it. Move it back to Dallas=better location, more central, better participation. Or leave in Houston and please dips like you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

[WOS87]

Ok Houston area and South Texas folks... WOS87 may just have to start having his own yearly TexasDownLow party and I would go FULL OUT with mock jumbotron, free food and maybe even alcohol hmmm.... and you'd all be invited. I got connections... AND a pretty nice job I'd say so wouldn't be anything really off my back. :D Christmas time is my peak time of year with all the depressed people.

Also, GRATZ to my fellow Mustangs at Galena Park North Shore! Southeast Texas is now 3-0. Go Katy and make it a clean sweep!

[Rabid Cougar]

I've mentioned it before, but we have a group of 6-10 Waco-area guys who love Texas high school football. Dallas is 1 1/2 hours, Houston 2 1/2 hours. Not that much difference. I know all of us would have loved to watch and support LaVega, but all of us lost interest in the thought of traveling to NRG and Houston and didn't go after 4 years running.

I didn't go to either Cameron's or LaVega's game. I have NEVER have missed a Cameron SC game. An hour and thirty minutes to Jerry's World is a lot different that 3 hours and 45 minutes PLUS Houston traffic.

Wanted to save my vacation time for the up coming week when my boys are home.

[Saggy Aggie]

I didn't go to either Cameron's or LaVega's game. I have NEVER have missed a Cameron SC game. An hour and thirty minutes to Jerry's World is a lot different that 3 hours and 45 minutes PLUS Houston traffic.

Wanted to save my vacation time for the up coming week when my boys are home.
I guess you guys think Houston traffic at 11 am is bad, but it's not lol

And yeah, so much worse than DFW traffic... LOL

The fact of the matter here is people are spoiled. Oh no, we have to drive this year so we're not coming. But the Houston people show up in droves to Dallas.... Hmm.....

[Matthew328]

I dont think Houston people show up in droves to Dallas...but maybe I'm wrong...

[WOS87]

I dont think Houston people show up in droves to Dallas...but maybe I'm wrong...

I can't speak for the Katy, Spring, Cy-Fair or Fort Bend schools that have been forced to make the trip but...

49,953 Plano vs. Port Neches-Groves, Texas Stadium 1977

Talk to Port Neches-Groves about that...the majority of that crowd WASN'T Plano I'll tell you that. I was there... and also WO-S when we played there in 2000 against Ennis essentially brought PN-G and the rest of Southeast Texas with them.

Again.. my point has been that there are teams that travel well (PN-G is one of the biggest) and teams that don't for various reasons just as there are towns and cities that will travel and won't depending on circumstances. Can't tell you how many posts I've seen the last week about how people are boycotting the championships because they are in Houston. I don't remember hearing any of that whining to this extent the past 5 years. AND... Dallas is NOT central by any means. Austin or San Antonio would be Central if you truly want it to be an event where all Texas High School Football fans would have the least distance to travel and if it were actually about the fans and teams and not just money. El Paso and Panhandle have always been and will always be screwed unless Texas divides into separate states. Imagine the whining if El Paso was where all the football powers were. I was actually hoping Canutillo would be back this year.

[Saggy Aggie]

I dont think Houston people show up in droves to Dallas...but maybe I'm wrong...

Well the same people who went to NRG went to cowboys stadium. The opposite is not true

[Matthew328]

I can't speak for the Katy, Spring, Cy-Fair or Fort Bend schools that have been forced to make the trip but...

49,953 Plano vs. Port Neches-Groves, Texas Stadium 1977

Talk to Port Neches-Groves about that...the majority of that crowd WASN'T Plano I'll tell you that. I was there... and also WO-S when we played there in 2000 against Ennis essentially brought PN-G and the rest of Southeast Texas with them.

Again.. my point has been that there are teams that travel well (PN-G is one of the biggest) and teams that don't for various reasons just as there are towns and cities that will travel and won't depending on circumstances. Can't tell you how many posts I've seen the last week about how people are boycotting the championships because they are in Houston. I don't remember hearing any of that whining to this extent the past 5 years. AND... Dallas is NOT central by any means. Austin or San Antonio would be Central if you truly want it to be an event where all Texas High School Football fans would have the least distance to travel and if it were actually about the fans and teams and not just money. El Paso and Panhandle have always been and will always be screwed unless Texas divides into separate states. Imagine the whining if El Paso was where all the football powers were. I was actually hoping Canutillo would be back this year.


I'm talking about the single site games...not PNG back in the 70's come on..lol

There may be people not going from Dallas but I stand by my stance that local Houston fans aren't supporting the event....and the UIL (who makes the decisions) agrees

[sinfan75]

Bottom line is the UIL needs to utilize all 3 domed stadiums in this state. Alamodome may not be the fanciest but it is the most central of the 3 and I wouldn't be surprised one bit that the attendance would rival and even exceed that of the games played at ATT just because of San Antonio being the most central of the big 3 cities.

[WOS87]

Katy up 17-0 now.. Greater Houston area about to make a clean 4-0 sweep. I never actually really liked the idea of a single site to begin with but if they're gonna let 6A schools have the whole homefield advantage thing in the early round of the playoffs it's not fair at all to make teams go to Dallas every year. They should rotate or come up with something else to make it fair. There's most definitely a hometown/local advantage and there always has been. I can make you a table from teams that won state championships dating back to 1920 and show you that the majority of the time the team closest to the site where the game was played has won and you know that I can do that!

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

All of this is just further proof that DFW area fans are complete and total snobs who only think about themselves and to hell with everyone else. And they're trying to pass the blame to Houston folks, when it's abundantly clear that it's the DFW fans who didn't bother to come simply because the games weren't in their own backyard.

And btw, big time kudos to the Celina folks. They brought their fans and were loud. So my question is, if Celina fans were willing and able to make the trip to Houston, then why not Argyle fans, or Frisco or Mansfield? And Celina's trip is longer than the other 3 teams mentioned!!! So, what's the real excuse, DFW folks?

[Matthew328]

Bottom line is the UIL needs to utilize all 3 domed stadiums in this state. Alamodome may not be the fanciest but it is the most central of the 3 and I wouldn't be surprised one bit that the attendance would rival and even exceed that of the games played at ATT just because of San Antonio being the most central of the big 3 cities.

I think once the renovation happens Alamodome will get a shot

[Matthew328]

All of this is just further proof that DFW area fans are complete and total snobs who only think about themselves and to hell with everyone else. And they're trying to pass the blame to Houston folks, when it's abundantly clear that it's the DFW fans who didn't bother to come simply because the games weren't in their own backyard.

And btw, big time kudos to the Celina folks. They brought their fans and were loud. So my question is, if Celina fans were willing and able to make the trip to Houston, then why not Argyle fans, or Frisco or Mansfield? And Celina's trip is longer than the other 3 teams mentioned!!! So, what's the real excuse, DFW folks?

I think in the case of Lone Star and Lake Ridge you are talking about two brand new schools with no alumni base to pull from...but basically what we are saying is the 50,000 weekend shortfall is primarily attributed to DFW fans not showing up? Because that's so ridiculous it's almost laughable

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

I think in the case of Lone Star and Lake Ridge you are talking about two brand new schools with no alumni base to pull from...but basically what we are saying is the 50,000 weekend shortfall is primarily attributed to DFW fans not showing up?

Yes. Because, as you said, DFW fans are the best fans in Texas and will support any DFW team. So where are they?

As I said before, I'm from Houston and I've been to the games. I've been hanging out with RGV coaches all day. Seen several fans from Laredo, RGV, and Corpus Christi who were all thrilled to finally be able to watch some championship games in person because the games are finally closer to them for the first time in half a decade. It's 3.5 hrs from Corpus, about 4 from Laredo, and 6 from the RGV. They were able to make it to the games. DFW area is 3.5 - 4 hours away, about the same distance. "Oh no.....it's too far away" "I'm not willing to drive an extra hour" "I need the gas money"

Pitiful. And any DFW area fans who still think this is the GHA fans' fault need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror to find the true culprit.

[Matthew328]

Yes. Because, as you said, DFW fans are the best fans in Texas and will support any DFW team. So where are they?

As I said before, I'm from Houston and I've been to the games. I've been hanging out with RGV coaches all day. Seen several fans from Laredo, RGV, and Corpus Christi who were all thrilled to finally be able to watch some championship games in person because the games are finally closer to them for the first time in half a decade. It's 3.5 hrs from Corpus, about 4 from Laredo, and 6 from the RGV. They were able to make it to the games. DFW area is 3.5 - 4 hours away, about the same distance. "Oh no.....it's too far away" "I'm not willing to drive an extra hour" "I need the gas money"

Pitiful. And any DFW area fans who still think this is the GHA fans' fault need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror to find the true culprit.


Show me where I've said that, what I've said is the unattached DFW HS Football fan will come out and watch the state games at AT&T Stadium because its a big local event. In order for an event to be a success it needs local support, if your business model is reliant upon fans from 240 miles away coming in droves who have zero connection then you are running a failed business model. There are exceptions to every rule and you are sitting with them, its funny how you haven't mentioned any local fans from Houston showing up, I've walked the concourse and at AT&T Stadium I see people from all over the DFW area there with their different shirts on etc....the first two days didnt see it at all here, just fans from the participating schools...seen it a little today but still we had 28k for the 6A Div. I championship game second lowest crowd for a 6A game since single site started..

The true culprit is the local Houston football fans who aren't attached to either team not coming out, it's the reality of it and we can debate it until we are blue in the face but I've talked to the UIL at length today about this and let's just say they agree with me.

[Gobbler Fan]

The UIL is all about making money hence the 100 different divisions we have now. Attendance should NOT be a determining factor in this conversation but what should be looked at is what is right to ALL the schools in Texas not just in the Fort Worth area. They should not play in the same place every year like you're suggesting Matthew but have a rotation between Dallas, Houston and San Antonio. It's sportswriters like you that have more pull than anyone on any board when you can put a Microphone in someones face and have that be probably the first question you asked. What did you expect them to say?

[Matthew328]

I actually didnt put a mic in anyone's phase it was a pretty casual conversation over a meal in the pressbox between games

I support the rotation, its the fairest thing to do..BUT I am disappointed with the huge drop off this year....Houston needed to support a great event coming to their city and they've failed miserably

[XX Man]

Doesn't look like there are too many empty seats today. The UIL AD just commented how wonderful the NRG stadium was!

[Matthew328]

Doesn't look like there are too many empty seats today. The UIL AD just commented how wonderful the NRG stadium was!

It's been great Dr. Elza and I talked about the great job NRG has done as hosts....they really have done well..its just the attendance...this last game will be about 35k which is still well below what you see at AT&T

[Tejastrue]

I guess DFW needs to claim something..:crazy1:

[1stnurseryman]

I thought they said 43,000 but I could be wrong

[Scoop27]

Haven't been to NRG in over 6 years (2009) when I had Texans credentials to cover the games since they started playing football. Even went to the Super Bowl. Have no desire to see a Texans game there again. Too much hassle with traffic and parking. While covering the games had a free great parking spot and didn't have to walk far to the stadium. Times have changed. Bought my wife season tickets for two years while I was either in the press box or taking pictures on the field

[OldBison75]

Navasota had to play several Houston ISD teams the last two years. I can tell you that even "attached" fans don't come to games for the teams we have played. I have seen the Houston teams be the home team and have less that 500 fans in the stands. On the road they might get 200, sometimes it was less than 100.
Don't get me wrong, I believe the rotation system if the best solution for fairness. But, I will say that there is no comparison between the community support of area schools between the Dallas area and the Houston area. I will say that there were probably more Navasota fans at NRG for the Cameron, Argyle, and WOS games than were there from the Houston ISD schools. I know of at least 200 Navasota fans that attended at least one of those three games, and many saw both 4A games.

[Saggy Aggie]

Navasota had to play several Houston ISD teams the last two years. I can tell you that even "attached" fans don't come to games for the teams we have played. I have seen the Houston teams be the home team and have less that 500 fans in the stands. On the road they might get 200, sometimes it was less than 100.
Don't get me wrong, I believe the rotation system if the best solution for fairness. But, I will say that there is no comparison between the community support of area schools between the Dallas area and the Houston area. I will say that there were probably more Navasota fans at NRG for the Cameron, Argyle, and WOS games than were there from the Houston ISD schools. I know of at least 200 Navasota fans that attended at least one of those three games, and many saw both 4A games.
HISD definitely has 0 success and 0 fan base.

Houston isn't much of a football city in itself, outside of Katy and a couple of the fort bend schools. Honestly this is a baseball area with some good football teams sprinkled here and there. Houston was never going to draw what cowboys stadium does but the first year and the teams who were there didn't help

But DFW people bitching is still funny to me. I drove my ass to Dallas to watch even when I didn't want to because that's what kind of fan I am

Pathetic to not show up over an hour or two driving. Entitlement is so pathetic

[WOS87]

Oh come on! Everyone knows Dallas ISD is just as bad as Houston ISD except for Skyline in Dallas and Lamar in Houston and we won't even mention Fort Worth ISD. It's the other ISDs that fill up the stadiums... Cypress-Fairbanks, Fort Bend, Lamar Consolidated (which includes Richmond and Rosenberg), Pearland, Galena Park, Spring Branch, Katy, Spring, Aldine, Conroe, Humble, etc in Houston.... just like Arlington, Irving, Allen, Mesquite, Garland, Lewisville, Carroll, Mansfield, Frisco, Carrollton, Plano, Richardson etc. in Dallas (oops did I leave out Highland Park?). The inner city schools haven't been a factor in bringing huge crowds pretty much ever since desegregation except for a tiny window of a few years in the '80s when Houston Yates and Dallas Carter were actually big schools, kicking butts and taking names. Houston Lamar remains a force and I happen to know quite a few young men on the team past and present and their parents and they have a huge following. Skyline is a different story with the funneling in but like I said... you can't use the inner city ISDs as an example.

[Weebe]

The El Campo/Stephenville game in 2012 drew 18,000 people. I can guarantee you El Campo brought at least 8,000 of those.

The Navasota/Argyle 2014 game drew 20,000. I'm guessing that Navasota brought at least a third of those people.

La Vega/Argyle drew less than 8,000 this year. That's embarrassing that those two fan bases could muster 8,000 between them, regardless of how many local folks showed up to the game.

[LionFan72]

It all boils down to money for the UIL. 50,000 less people in the seats, means somewhere in the neighborhoold of $800,000 to $1.5 million in lost revenue this year, depending on the money model! And who is to say that the numbers would have higher if AT&T was home of the playoffs this year. The TEXAS ECOnomy has hit equally throughout the state, the games are a week before Christmas, all kind of excuses could be adorned with whateve you want to attach to it. Simple answer for me this year, I had a medical issue or I would have been in NRG watching the games! And yes I watched and recorded every game that was played. Because I am a Texas High School football fan! It is he purest sport available to athletes, with the production of State Games in one location! I myself would prefer to have games decided by team coaches at a site of their choosing! The bigger cities have their followers of their own school, only. Out here in Central Texas, travel is not an option, it is given, and the visiting crowds are ususally pretty small, the perinnal powers are the exceptions! Just my opinion, but I think the economy has more to do with attendance than anything else!

[Gobbler Fan]

43k+ for the Katy game

[bobcat1]

43k+ for the Katy game
That's all? Wow

[PurplePop]

Wow, so much to say here. I grew up in Houston, now live in a small town near SA and have family in the Dallas area. First of all, there is no Dallas. Just sprawl. Houston is a real city, not a little city surrounded by a bunch of other little cities. AT&T isn't even in Dallas. It's in sprawl. But, I digress. And, everyone (mostly) has failed to mention the draw of the relatively new circus scene that is AT&T. It's like going to a game in a giant sports bar. Every once and a while you aren't so distracted by the giant, mega, whatever-tron that you can actually watch the game. (I'm talking about Cowboy games. Maybe they don't stream HS football games live on the grotesquity in the sky.) My guess is a substantial number of fans were drawn to the novelty of AT&T, especially in 2011. Totally unfair comparison between AT&T in 2011 when everyone can see Jerry's brand new mega-sports bar for the price of a high school ticket instead of paying for a Cowboys game to NRG in 2015. For the mysterious UIL-guy to be casually slamming Houston during the weekend event tells me the UIL guy is from the Dallas area. At least, give it a few days, step back and look at the numbers in relation to which teams were there, how old the schools are, etc. And, because Houston is a real city, it might take a year or two for word to get out that the high school state championships are in town. As for people, Houstonians are the friendliest big city people in the world. Dallasites, or whatever they are called, don't even exist. There are Planoians, Friscoites, Allenians, Irvingtons, Garlanders, Mesqitos, etc. (I know I'm ignoring Ft. Worth. Isn't that what people in Dallas do?) Finally, why do the games have to be inside?!?! UGHHH! By late December, the weather in Houston, San Antonio and Austin is beautiful. Dallas area ... not so much.

[speedbump]

That's all? Wow

Only 7932 for WOS /Celina. About 7900 from Orange.

[Matthew328]

Wow, so much to say here. I grew up in Houston, now live in a small town near SA and have family in the Dallas area. First of all, there is no Dallas. Just sprawl. Houston is a real city, not a little city surrounded by a bunch of other little cities. AT&T isn't even in Dallas. It's in sprawl. But, I digress. And, everyone (mostly) has failed to mention the draw of the relatively new circus scene that is AT&T. It's like going to a game in a giant sports bar. Every once and a while you aren't so distracted by the giant, mega, whatever-tron that you can actually watch the game. (I'm talking about Cowboy games. Maybe they don't stream HS football games live on the grotesquity in the sky.) My guess is a substantial number of fans were drawn to the novelty of AT&T, especially in 2011. Totally unfair comparison between AT&T in 2011 when everyone can see Jerry's brand new mega-sports bar for the price of a high school ticket instead of paying for a Cowboys game to NRG in 2015. For the mysterious UIL-guy to be casually slamming Houston during the weekend event tells me the UIL guy is from the Dallas area. At least, give it a few days, step back and look at the numbers in relation to which teams were there, how old the schools are, etc. And, because Houston is a real city, it might take a year or two for word to get out that the high school state championships are in town. As for people, Houstonians are the friendliest big city people in the world. Dallasites, or whatever they are called, don't even exist. There are Planoians, Friscoites, Allenians, Irvingtons, Garlanders, Mesqitos, etc. (I know I'm ignoring Ft. Worth. Isn't that what people in Dallas do?) Finally, why do the games have to be inside?!?! UGHHH! By late December, the weather in Houston, San Antonio and Austin is beautiful. Dallas area ... not so much.

It was actually mutiple UIL reps......those guys/gals been around so long and been to so many places hard to tell where they are "from"......you make a valid point about 2011 and novelty of AT&T I am sure that factored in as well....Houston's got plenty of sprawl on their own as well....DFW doesnt have the market cornered there.

As for casually slamming Houston, I think the UIL realized the numbers would be down, first year and some newer teams but I dont think they'd be down as bad as they were....I expected 200k for all ten games..I thought that was a reasonable goal and it was well short..

Houston media pretty much agrees with my take a lot of locals just didnt show up

VYPE Houston ‏@VYPEHouston 12m12 minutes ago
@Matt_Stepp817 Houston is a transient place. Peeps from the woodlands aren't going to see George Ranch and Spring not going to watch Cam Yoe

Being a Fort Worth guy; we are ignored some...but I think the stadium being in Tarrant County helps...much more small town feel vs Dallas...

The games will always be inside, its not worth wasting your breath on.....

[Matthew328]

For the record, I actually support a 2 year rotation between AT&T, NRG and Alamodome....I think thats the fairest way to do it....
There are some who say that it should not rotate, the UIL doesn't rotate any other title venues.....I say

#txhsfb is our state's sport, its treated differently by the community, schools, fans and media....its the exception and it needs to be brought to as much of the state as possible

[Scoop27]

Then it should be played a DKR Memorial in Austin

[chaingang]

Then it should be played a DKR Memorial in Austin

Nah, needs to be a dome. And one big enough to hold atleast 60K

[chaingang]

The El Campo/Stephenville game in 2012 drew 18,000 people. I can guarantee you El Campo brought at least 8,000 of those.

The Navasota/Argyle 2014 game drew 20,000. I'm guessing that Navasota brought at least a third of those people.

La Vega/Argyle drew less than 8,000 this year. That's embarrassing that those two fan bases could muster 8,000 between them, regardless of how many local folks showed up to the game.

We had almost double that at WOS/Celina. Our side (WOS) was over flowing to each endzone. WOS represented. And before yall say it was because its an hour and a half from Orange, we brought a huge crowd last year vs. Gilmer too. That was a 5 hour drive for us.

[Aesculus gilmus]

The TEXAS ECOnomy has hit equally throughout the state.!

That's not really true. For instance, in the area where I am, Longview and Kilgore boomed and are now going bust. However, Gilmer just north of there is still where it always is: in the economic doldrums, neither booming nor busting.

[Weebe]

Only 7932 for WOS /Celina. About 7900 from Orange.

Bottom line is if the teams that play in the games have poor fan support, the attendance will always look bad.

[duckhunter]

There is once certain poster in this thread who is a freaking idiot trying to make his point about attendance numbers.

The bigger the school+closer to host stadium= larger attendance

To think Houston fans are responsible for the low attendance numbers is freaking ridiculous. And to think just because attendance was down this yr to years prior and that the UIL lost a significant amount of money is crap also. It costs money to rent these stadiums out.... I wonder which one charges more???

-
And I hate to burst you bubble there Mathew but not everyone enjoys Dallas as much as you

[speedbump]

"As for casually slamming Houston, I think the UIL realized the numbers would be down,"

If they didn't you started telling them the day NRG was announced as the host. That was before you had any idea which teams would be there. It was simply the DFW circus vs high school football in Houston. And now the morning after we see the Dallas Morning News crying and making excuses about injuries and headphones and trying to make the attendance the biggest story. Bottom line is, (1) Dallas botched things up or the games would never have been played at NRG in the first place (2) DFW area went 0-4 and were outscored 133 - 40 (3) Fan support from Dallas area fans was pathetic. DFW won the attendance contest and failed at everything else. Not to worry though - It will be back in Dallas next year and the greed infested uil , DFW media and many claiming to be HS football fans can all get back in their comfort zone- sitting in a comfortable seat with their noses shoved up Jerrys jumbotron. Here in the Houston area we'll just continue to support HS football.

[Txbroadcaster]

"As for casually slamming Houston, I think the UIL realized the numbers would be down,"

If they didn't you started telling them the day NRG was announced as the host. That was before you had any idea which teams would be there. It was simply the DFW circus vs high school football in Houston. And now the morning after we see the Dallas Morning News crying and making excuses about injuries and headphones and trying to make the attendance the biggest story. Bottom line is, (1) Dallas botched things up or the games would never have been played at NRG in the first place (2) DFW area went 0-4 and were outscored 133 - 40 (3) Fan support from Dallas area fans was pathetic. DFW won the attendance contest and failed at everything else. Not to worry though - It will be back in Dallas next year and the greed infested uil , DFW media and many claiming to be HS football fans can all get back in their comfort zone- sitting in a comfortable seat with their noses shoved up Jerrys jumbotron. Here in the Houston area we'll just continue to support HS football.

Dallas did not botch anything..Network picked that game as the game they wanted on a Sat, not Dallas.

[Gobbler Fan]

But everything else that he said was spot on

[Txbroadcaster]

But everything else that he said was spot on

I disagree about the DMN "crying"

They were reporting what they were told about headset issues( which is on each individual school since they bring their own) and about an injury to one of the best players on a team. How is that crying?

[speedbump]

Dallas did not botch anything..Network picked that game as the game they wanted on a Sat, not Dallas.

Why was their even an NFL game scheduled for that weekend? Got anybody to blame other than Jerrys world for not letting the NFL know the stadium was needed for the HS games.

[Gobbler Fan]

The entitlement mentality of the DFW area is funny. We DOWN here in the Central and South Texas follow ours teams religiously so why can't teams up North do the same? Attendance was great from the fans from this area it's the teams fans from up North that drew the attendance numbers down. Anyway attendance should not be part of the conversation from the money hungry UIL about where the Championship games are held but what is fair to ALL teams not just the teams around the DFW area. There should be a rotation between the cities of Houston , San Antonio and Dallas as to where the games are played. DFW area teams went 0-4 While the Houston are teams dominated. Maybe they should go on that because it makes more sense than anything the UIL comes up with.

[chaingang]

The entitlement mentality of the DFW area is funny. We DOWN here in the Central and South Texas follow ours teams religiously so why can't teams up North do the same? Attendance was great from the fans from this area it's the teams fans from up North that drew the attendance numbers down. Anyway attendance should not be part of the conversation from the money hungry UIL about where the Championship games are held but what is fair to ALL teams not just the teams around the DFW area. There should be a rotation between the cities of Houston , San Antonio and Dallas as to where the games are played. DFW area teams went 0-4 While the Houston are teams dominated. Maybe they should go on that because it makes more sense than anything the UIL comes up with.


If people try to say that sleeping IN YOUR OWN BED the night before their SC game isnt an advantage, they are either delusional or liars. LOL.

[chaingang]

This could be a coincidence but take WOS for example.
1986 SC- Won in Astrodome-1.5 hour drive
1987 SC-Won at Kyle Field-2.5 hour drive.
1988 SC- Lost at Kyle Field(I think it was Kyle field) 2.5 hour drive (Only ecxception)
2000 SC- Lost at Texas Stadium-5+ hour drive
2014 SC- Lost at ATT Stadium-5+hour drive
2015 SC-Won at NRG-1.5 hour drive.

[Matthew328]

There is once certain poster in this thread who is a freaking idiot trying to make his point about attendance numbers.

The bigger the school+closer to host stadium= larger attendance

To think Houston fans are responsible for the low attendance numbers is freaking ridiculous. And to think just because attendance was down this yr to years prior and that the UIL lost a significant amount of money is crap also. It costs money to rent these stadiums out.... I wonder which one charges more???

-
And I hate to burst you bubble there Mathew but not everyone enjoys Dallas as much as you

LOL its Matthew....I enjoy football all over this great state, I travel to watch football quite a bit so let's pump your breaks there. I actually don't like Dallas that much, I'm a Fort Worth guy and there's a significant difference.

You can disagree with me on the casual Houston fan not showing up, but dont choose to engage in name calling with me. It makes your salient points less than viable and portrays you as an internet tough guy. So don't be that guy.

The numbers prove the casual fan didn't show up this weekend and anyone with any significant knowledge of football, attendance patterns etc on a statewide scale will tell you that. I don't stay in a bubble in one class or one part of the state, so I feel pretty confident my suspicion is correct. The powers that be have the same hunch as well, there is a small minority of folks who believe I am wrong and that's fine but neutrality isn't exactly on their side either. I've got no stake on where the games are played, I'm gonna be there either way in fact travelling works out better for my bottom line personally. But I'm not going to sugar coat the facts either.

Now if you have some facts to bring to the table bring them, because I've seen the contract the UIL signed with AT&T and the deal thats cut for the UIL to play at AT&T is very good. Maybe NRG cut a better deal for this year I don't know, but don't go assuming things without the facts. The second fact is OF COURSE the UIL AND the schools lost out on money this year. Simple math will tell you that, less ticket revenue means less money for everyone. The UIL takes 15% off the top of every playoff gate and the remainder is dispersed among the schools, 90k less in attendance = less money.

[Matthew328]

"As for casually slamming Houston, I think the UIL realized the numbers would be down,"

If they didn't you started telling them the day NRG was announced as the host. That was before you had any idea which teams would be there. It was simply the DFW circus vs high school football in Houston. And now the morning after we see the Dallas Morning News crying and making excuses about injuries and headphones and trying to make the attendance the biggest story. Bottom line is, (1) Dallas botched things up or the games would never have been played at NRG in the first place (2) DFW area went 0-4 and were outscored 133 - 40 (3) Fan support from Dallas area fans was pathetic. DFW won the attendance contest and failed at everything else. Not to worry though - It will be back in Dallas next year and the greed infested uil , DFW media and many claiming to be HS football fans can all get back in their comfort zone- sitting in a comfortable seat with their noses shoved up Jerrys jumbotron. Here in the Houston area we'll just continue to support HS football.

Remember its not just DFW media saying what I'm saying Houston media says the same thing.

[Txbroadcaster]

Why was their even an NFL game scheduled for that weekend? Got anybody to blame other than Jerrys world for not letting the NFL know the stadium was needed for the HS games.

LOL I hope that is a joke

[WOS87]

This is rapidly turning into a popcorn thread... Almost as popcorny as AT&T but not quite... get Greg Tepper in here and we're in popcorn heaven! :1popcorn:

[speedbump]

LOL I hope that is a joke

"On Tuesday night, the NFL released its 2015 schedule. While fans talked wins and losses and planned road trips, “miscommunication” between the Cowboys and the University Interscholastic League — the state’s governing body for public schools — could force the state football championship games to NRG Stadium or the Alamodome in San Antonio."

I'm sure the uil knew when they needed to have the stadium. Obviously somebody with the cowboys, that would be DALLAS cowboys had their head up their kazoo and didn't get it straight with the NFL. So yea, Dallas botched it and the games were moved to Houston.

[chaingang]

"On Tuesday night, the NFL released its 2015 schedule. While fans talked wins and losses and planned road trips, “miscommunication” between the Cowboys and the University Interscholastic League — the state’s governing body for public schools — could force the state football championship games to NRG Stadium or the Alamodome in San Antonio."

I'm sure the uil knew when they needed to have the stadium. Obviously somebody with the cowboys, that would be DALLAS cowboys had their head up their kazoo and didn't get it straight with the NFL. So yea, Dallas botched it and the games were moved to Houston.

Hey, this is the first Cowboy screw up that I was quite ok with. lol

[WOS1]

I have been to the play offs in Dallas, and there were just as many people showed up at NRG, as they did at Cowboy stadium. I hope it stays in Houston, or at the furthest, the Alamo Dome. Dallas is just too far for most of the state.

It was in Dallas last year and WOS filled it up there too. It wouldn't matter if it were in Alaska. Mustang fans would show up!

[PurplePop]

Remember its not just DFW media saying what I'm saying Houston media says the same thing.
If there is one thing you can take to the bank, the "media" usually gets it wrong. The last thing I want to hear is what the "Dallas media" or what the "Houston media" or what ANY media thinks. The "media" always has an agenda. While all these special UIL people and media people were discussing the lame attendance at NRG, did they compare teams year to year. There is a HUGE difference in fan base.

2014 -
4A
Navasota/Argyle and WOS/Gilmer
5A
Aledo/Temple and Ennis/Cedar Park
6A
Allen/Cyp. Ranch and Cedar Hill/Katy

2015
4A
La Vega/Argyle and WOS/Celina
5A
George Ranch/Lake Ridge and Cedar Park/Ridge Point
6A
North Shore/Westlake and Katy/Lake Travis

Big differences between 2014 and 2015 schools.

In 2014, 11 of the 12 schools were schools that have been around forever and are tied to towns. Schools like Navasota, Temple, Aledo, Gilmer, WOS, etc. etc. are bringing the whole town and players are bringing cousins and grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. In 2015, only 5 of 12 schools were town-based. Proximity was an issue also. Just look at the schools.
AND, 2015's George Ranch, Lake Ridge and Ridge Point have only been in existence for five years or less. That equals zero fan base.
AND, Allen is a huge school right down the road from Jerry's place that was in the middle of an epic run in 2014 with a superstar QB.
AND, Navasota was breaking all kinds of national records in 2014 with Eppler and a superstar WR.
And, on and on. Not excuses. Reality. Was this stuff discussed?
AND ... AND we're competing with a flippin' Cowboys' game on TV on Saturday night in Dallas (excuse me, Irving or Arlington or wherever Jerry's tax break is)?!?!
And, you make light of this? You're saying the Cowboys on TV won't affect random Houston football fan from going to NRG to watch random high school football games? Jerry won't like the sound of that.

[PurplePop]

Oh, and if the games were only moved to Houston because Jerry screwed up and scheduled a Cowgirls game on Saturday night, that means the UIL wasn't behind the move in the first place and was either behind in promoting the games to random Houston fan or (more likely) only half-heartedly promoted the games because they wanted to go right back to all the fabulous VIP bars at Jerry's place. This smells any way you look at it. "It's not just the Dallas media, the Houston media said so, too..." Give me a break.

[XX Man]

It was in Dallas last year and WOS filled it up there too. It wouldn't matter if it were in Alaska. Mustang fans would show up!

Yeah, I know WOS will, but all schools are not WOS. The guys on FOX said during the WOS game, that WOS had brought more fans than anyone up to that point.

[XX Man]

It's been great Dr. Elza and I talked about the great job NRG has done as hosts....they really have done well..its just the attendance...this last game will be about 35k which is still well below what you see at AT&T

Not sure where everyone is getting all the numbers, but during the 6A games, they said on TV that there were over 43,000 attending.

[XX Man]

Haven't been to NRG in over 6 years (2009) when I had Texans credentials to cover the games since they started playing football. Even went to the Super Bowl. Have no desire to see a Texans game there again. Too much hassle with traffic and parking. While covering the games had a free great parking spot and didn't have to walk far to the stadium. Times have changed. Bought my wife season tickets for two years while I was either in the press box or taking pictures on the field
No hassle parking? My buddy went to a game there, parked his car, and went to a tailgate party with his brother. After the game, he went to his car, and it had been TOWED, and the the area he parked in was cordoned off. The explanation was that everyone knows that area was permit parking only. He asked how he was suppose to know that, as there was no paint or signs designating that area being permit parking only. It was a scheme with the parking people and wrecker service. There were a bunch of others got towed the same way. That was enough for me to never want to attend a Cowboys game, or their stadium, period,

[XX Man]

This could be a coincidence but take WOS for example.
1986 SC- Won in Astrodome-1.5 hour drive
1987 SC-Won at Kyle Field-2.5 hour drive.
1988 SC- Lost at Kyle Field(I think it was Kyle field) 2.5 hour drive (Only ecxception)
2000 SC- Lost at Texas Stadium-5+ hour drive
2014 SC- Lost at ATT Stadium-5+hour drive
2015 SC-Won at NRG-1.5 hour drive.

And, the 2000 loss was to a team that not only was about an hour away from Texas Stadium, but they had played there numerous times. Seriously guys. The UIL should not be making decisions on this, due to dollars. And, the ticket price should only be to cover the cost of putting on the games.

[XX Man]

For the record, I actually support a 2 year rotation between AT&T, NRG and Alamodome....I think thats the fairest way to do it....
There are some who say that it should not rotate, the UIL doesn't rotate any other title venues.....I say

#txhsfb is our state's sport, its treated differently by the community, schools, fans and media....its the exception and it needs to be brought to as much of the state as possible

Heck with the rotation. How is AT&T fair to teams that may come from the El Paso area? They should all be held in a centrally located stadium.

[Matthew328]

Heck with the rotation. How is AT&T fair to teams that may come from the El Paso area? They should all be held in a centrally located stadium.

Then San Antonio is really the only other option

[cards4me]

Why was their even an NFL game scheduled for that weekend? Got anybody to blame other than Jerrys world for not letting the NFL know the stadium was needed for the HS games.

I am sure the NFL would go out of their way to work in a few HS games. Boy's the NFL doesn't give a crap.

[speedbump]

I am sure the NFL would go out of their way to work in a few HS games. Boy's the NFL doesn't give a crap.

Who said they did?

[Matthew328]

If there is one thing you can take to the bank, the "media" usually gets it wrong. The last thing I want to hear is what the "Dallas media" or what the "Houston media" or what ANY media thinks. The "media" always has an agenda. While all these special UIL people and media people were discussing the lame attendance at NRG, did they compare teams year to year. There is a HUGE difference in fan base.

2014 -
4A
Navasota/Argyle and WOS/Gilmer
5A
Aledo/Temple and Ennis/Cedar Park
6A
Allen/Cyp. Ranch and Cedar Hill/Katy

2015
4A
La Vega/Argyle and WOS/Celina
5A
George Ranch/Lake Ridge and Cedar Park/Ridge Point
6A
North Shore/Westlake and Katy/Lake Travis

Big differences between 2014 and 2015 schools.

In 2014, 11 of the 12 schools were schools that have been around forever and are tied to towns. Schools like Navasota, Temple, Aledo, Gilmer, WOS, etc. etc. are bringing the whole town and players are bringing cousins and grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. In 2015, only 5 of 12 schools were town-based. Proximity was an issue also. Just look at the schools.
AND, 2015's George Ranch, Lake Ridge and Ridge Point have only been in existence for five years or less. That equals zero fan base.
AND, Allen is a huge school right down the road from Jerry's place that was in the middle of an epic run in 2014 with a superstar QB.
AND, Navasota was breaking all kinds of national records in 2014 with Eppler and a superstar WR.
And, on and on. Not excuses. Reality. Was this stuff discussed?
AND ... AND we're competing with a flippin' Cowboys' game on TV on Saturday night in Dallas (excuse me, Irving or Arlington or wherever Jerry's tax break is)?!?!
And, you make light of this? You're saying the Cowboys on TV won't affect random Houston football fan from going to NRG to watch random high school football games? Jerry won't like the sound of that.


Purple Pop I appreciate your reasoned and well thought out points, its refreshing to have a civil discussion without name calling. Kudos

I think a drop in attendance was certainly guaranteed based on the newness of 3 of the largest eight schools playing, (and yes we did discuss that Saturday FWIW) the question was how much of a drop? I expected about a 20% drop....I thought 200k total was going to be a fair barometer for Houston (very similar to the 2011 numbers at AT&T). 2014 was a perfect storm, we may never see that kind of across the board turnout again..however I dont think anyone anticipated a nearly 40% drop in attendance..that is an alarming number and deserves the discussion its getting.

I dont live in Houston so I can't comment on the promotion etc. I do know the UIL promoted it pretty heavily on their twitter account, etc...I dont know if they ran commercials, etc but then again I dont know if they do that in DFW either....I will say a couple of general Houston fans did see the discussion on twitter and told me they had no idea it was this weekend at NRG or they would have gone...so there's that...

In 6A we did have a great crowd for the Katy game 43k is strong..but 28k for the North Shore game is a disappointment also, especially considering North Shore is Houston's largest HS and a traditional power..

I could tell the neutral fan wasn't there in large numbers by the seating arrangements, anyone who's been to these state title games on a regular basis knows typically the prime seats (20 to 20) are taken by fans of the participating schools and the neutrals tend to congregate on the flanks or in the end zones...those areas were vacant Thur and Fri w/the exception of the WOS-Celina game......

I think your Cowboys point was total sarcasm so I can't really address that but I do take exception to your media having an agenda comment. Being in the media I take being unbiased seriously, to me its an integrity issue so by accusing the media (which by proxy is me) of having an agenda I think I deserve a chance to defend myself and my integrity. So in order to have an agenda, there's got to be an end game for the "media" so in your opinion whats the end game or benefit to the media by having a view that the casual football fan in Houston didnt show up in force this weekend thus causing an even bigger dip in the numbers?

[Matthew328]

The Dallas Cowboys were 100% at fault for having the game scheduled on Saturday, they dropped the ball and admitted such when the schedule came out. Thus thats why they worked hard to try and get the game moved to Sunday

[XX Man]

I am sure the NFL would go out of their way to work in a few HS games. Boy's the NFL doesn't give a crap.

awwww, come on........

[WOS87]

They should alternate between

http://www.universityofphoenixstadium.com

and

http://www.mbsuperdome.com

so everyone can complain about the distances although sadly both would actually be closer than Dallas for many teams in far East Texas and Southeast Texas and a large portion of West Texas. :crazy1:

[PurplePop]

Purple Pop I appreciate your reasoned and well thought out points, its refreshing to have a civil discussion without name calling. Kudos

I think a drop in attendance was certainly guaranteed based on the newness of 3 of the largest eight schools playing, (and yes we did discuss that Saturday FWIW) the question was how much of a drop? I expected about a 20% drop....I thought 200k total was going to be a fair barometer for Houston (very similar to the 2011 numbers at AT&T). 2014 was a perfect storm, we may never see that kind of across the board turnout again..however I dont think anyone anticipated a nearly 40% drop in attendance..that is an alarming number and deserves the discussion its getting.

I dont live in Houston so I can't comment on the promotion etc. I do know the UIL promoted it pretty heavily on their twitter account, etc...I dont know if they ran commercials, etc but then again I dont know if they do that in DFW either....I will say a couple of general Houston fans did see the discussion on twitter and told me they had no idea it was this weekend at NRG or they would have gone...so there's that...

In 6A we did have a great crowd for the Katy game 43k is strong..but 28k for the North Shore game is a disappointment also, especially considering North Shore is Houston's largest HS and a traditional power..

I could tell the neutral fan wasn't there in large numbers by the seating arrangements, anyone who's been to these state title games on a regular basis knows typically the prime seats (20 to 20) are taken by fans of the participating schools and the neutrals tend to congregate on the flanks or in the end zones...those areas were vacant Thur and Fri w/the exception of the WOS-Celina game......

I think your Cowboys point was total sarcasm so I can't really address that but I do take exception to your media having an agenda comment. Being in the media I take being unbiased seriously, to me its an integrity issue so by accusing the media (which by proxy is me) of having an agenda I think I deserve a chance to defend myself and my integrity. So in order to have an agenda, there's got to be an end game for the "media" so in your opinion whats the end game or benefit to the media by having a view that the casual football fan in Houston didnt show up in force this weekend thus causing an even bigger dip in the numbers?

Simply put, there is no difference between Houston and Dallas high school football fans. The participating schools made all the difference in
attendance. It's not rocket science. The UIL would love for the media to blame going back to AT&T (which is and has always been their plan) on Houston fans. But, it's a silly ruse.

The attendance at Katy's game of 43,700 is the 6th highest attended high school football game in the last 40 years and exceeded the attendance of all the AT&T games in 2010 and 2011. Oops. Whereas, the George Ranch-Lake Ridge attendance of 15,700 (which I don't think you mentioned) was due to the very unusual fact that both schools are 5 and 4 years old, respectively, and have zero fan base.

As mentioned in my earlier post, Ridge Point was another 5A finalist only 4 years old with zero fan base. A look at the 5A and 6A finalists of the last 5 years reveals a grand total of ZERO schools in this "new school-no fan base" category.

Also referring back to arguments in my prior post about the dearth of 4A, 5A or 6A finalists across the board this year with large fan bases and your easily short 50,000 fans which is the difference between 2015 and 2011.

If you want a taste of the UIL's mindset on this, read:

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/footballheadlines/2015/07/20/uil-football-championships-head-to-houston-for-2015-could-return-to-north-texas-in-2016

As you mentioned, 2014 was a perfect storm for high attendance as far as the number of schools with large fan bases participating. Likewise, 2015 was the perfect storm in the exact opposite way. The simple fact is that the UIL loves Jerry and AT&T, period. Failing to report it the way it is and blaming Houston fans without any real analysis gives rise to my suspicions of an agenda.

[WOS87]

The WOS-Celina attendance was 13,635... not 7932 as someone reported. Not sure where they got their numbers. I was there for the start of the George Ranch game and the George Ranch side was packed. There were people waiting for the WOS crowd to leave to get seats as I was standing there talking to a ton of them. Mansfield's side was empty.

[PurplePop]

The WOS-Celina attendance was 13,635... not 7932 as someone reported. Not sure where they got their numbers. I was there for the start of the George Ranch game and the George Ranch side was packed. There were people waiting for the WOS crowd to leave to get seats as I was standing there talking to a ton of them. Mansfield's side was empty.

4A had its usual solid turnout. I probably should have left 4A out of my comments.

[WOS87]

This is the only decent picture I have of any of the crowd that I took. It's not very good and it's the Celina crowd looking from the WOS side.

http://bbs.texasdownlow.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=980&d=1450680196

[PurplePop]

(Matthew 328) I mistakenly put Ridge Point instead of Lone Star as a finalist. Same difference. Lone Star has only been in existence for 6 years.

[charlesrixey]

Under normal conditons, I would say that true fans will show no matter where the games are played. I drove from the middle of Missouri to watch Celina.

However, having televised games hurts more than the games being played in Houston. The stadium was decent and the traffic was expected. But showing the games on tv greatly decreases the motivation to go to the game, especially when games are 3-4 hours further away.

[XX Man]

[QUOTE=WOS87;1892831]This is the only decent picture I have of any of the crowd that I took. It's not very good and it's the Celina crowd looking from the WOS side.

http://bbs.texasdownlow.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=980&d=1450680196[/QUOTE

And, there was more than twice the WOS fans, than what Celina brought. Yeah, I can understand why the Dallas area folks want the game to stay in Dallas, but yall need to understand why the Houston area people want it to stay in Houston. Why do the Dallas people think they have some kind of "right" to it staying at the Dallas Cowgirl stadium?

[chaingang]

This is the only decent picture I have of any of the crowd that I took. It's not very good and it's the Celina crowd looking from the WOS side.

http://bbs.texasdownlow.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=980&d=1450680196


Ive still been hoping for a Celina fan to post a good pic of our crowd..... Im sure someone has one.

[panfan]

The UIL, media, and some fans have lost sight of what the SC Game is all about. Its not suppose to be about the $$$, the attendance, the venue, etc. Its about the opportunity for the biggest or smallest backwoods school who earned their way to the end to play against the other team who also earned their way there. Yes - playing at a fancy venue is very cool. UIL needs to do what ever it can to try and continue providing this experience and working with the private business partners to make it happen, but not to the tune of paying out huge sums of cash. I like the fact that the SC games are being rotated. No one area should have a monopoly on these games. If attendance is down, then so be it, it should not provide the rationale to move the venue before its rotation time. Purple pop seems to have a good grasp on this - if a school is small and doesn't travel well - then attendance will be down. SO WHAT! Its for that school and their fans, whether it be 100 or 10,000.

If the local population doesn't come, then so be it. Shouldn't matter, and it only matters when someone is counting ticket sales. UIL (and to a lesser extent media), this is not a college or pro sports thing - pull your heads out, realize what these games are about, get your &()*&)(*& egos out of the way, and let the kids play the game - hopefully at the coolest venues in the State, but if not, there are plenty of really cool college venues and towns that would welcome these games. Just my humble opinion.

[95mustang]

The UIL, media, and some fans have lost sight of what the SC Game is all about. Its not suppose to be about the $$$, the attendance, the venue, etc. Its about the opportunity for the biggest or smallest backwoods school who earned their way to the end to play against the other team who also earned their way there. Yes - playing at a fancy venue is very cool. UIL needs to do what ever it can to try and continue providing this experience and working with the private business partners to make it happen, but not to the tune of paying out huge sums of cash. I like the fact that the SC games are being rotated. No one area should have a monopoly on these games. If attendance is down, then so be it, it should not provide the rationale to move the venue before its rotation time. Purple pop seems to have a good grasp on this - if a school is small and doesn't travel well - then attendance will be down. SO WHAT! Its for that school and their fans, whether it be 100 or 10,000.

If the local population doesn't come, then so be it. Shouldn't matter, and it only matters when someone is counting ticket sales. UIL (and to a lesser extent media), this is not a college or pro sports thing - pull your heads out, realize what these games are about, get your &()*&)(*& egos out of the way, and let the kids play the game - hopefully at the coolest venues in the State, but if not, there are plenty of really cool college venues and towns that would welcome these games. Just my humble opinion.


Finally a post I can agree with on this subject!

[HEMOTOXIC]

The UIL, media, and some fans have lost sight of what the SC Game is all about. Its not suppose to be about the $$$, the attendance, the venue, etc. Its about the opportunity for the biggest or smallest backwoods school who earned their way to the end to play against the other team who also earned their way there. Yes - playing at a fancy venue is very cool. UIL needs to do what ever it can to try and continue providing this experience and working with the private business partners to make it happen, but not to the tune of paying out huge sums of cash. I like the fact that the SC games are being rotated. No one area should have a monopoly on these games. If attendance is down, then so be it, it should not provide the rationale to move the venue before its rotation time. Purple pop seems to have a good grasp on this - if a school is small and doesn't travel well - then attendance will be down. SO WHAT! Its for that school and their fans, whether it be 100 or 10,000.

If the local population doesn't come, then so be it. Shouldn't matter, and it only matters when someone is counting ticket sales. UIL (and to a lesser extent media), this is not a college or pro sports thing - pull your heads out, realize what these games are about, get your &()*&)(*& egos out of the way, and let the kids play the game - hopefully at the coolest venues in the State, but if not, there are plenty of really cool college venues and towns that would welcome these games. Just my humble opinion.

:ditto:

[speedbump]

The WOS-Celina attendance was 13,635... not 7932 as someone reported. Not sure where they got their numbers. I was there for the start of the George Ranch game and the George Ranch side was packed. There were people waiting for the WOS crowd to leave to get seats as I was standing there talking to a ton of them. Mansfield's side was empty.

Got the numbers from the Dallas Morning News -about half way down the page.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/high-schools/2015/12/19/move-dallas-houston-reason-decline-attendance-state-championships

[speedbump]

The UIL, media, and some fans have lost sight of what the SC Game is all about. Its not suppose to be about the $$$, the attendance, the venue, etc. Its about the opportunity for the biggest or smallest backwoods school who earned their way to the end to play against the other team who also earned their way there. Yes - playing at a fancy venue is very cool. UIL needs to do what ever it can to try and continue providing this experience and working with the private business partners to make it happen, but not to the tune of paying out huge sums of cash. I like the fact that the SC games are being rotated. No one area should have a monopoly on these games. If attendance is down, then so be it, it should not provide the rationale to move the venue before its rotation time. Purple pop seems to have a good grasp on this - if a school is small and doesn't travel well - then attendance will be down. SO WHAT! Its for that school and their fans, whether it be 100 or 10,000.

If the local population doesn't come, then so be it. Shouldn't matter, and it only matters when someone is counting ticket sales. UIL (and to a lesser extent media), this is not a college or pro sports thing - pull your heads out, realize what these games are about, get your &()*&)(*& egos out of the way, and let the kids play the game - hopefully at the coolest venues in the State, but if not, there are plenty of really cool college venues and towns that would welcome these games. Just my humble opinion.

I'm old and brittle and should never fall down so please don't post stuff like " I like the fact that the SC games are being rotated." I may not be able to get up the next time. Other than that I agree 100% with your post. Sadly I doubt if the uil could care any less about any of the stuff you mentioned.

[panfan]

I'm old and brittle and should never fall down so please don't post stuff like " I like the fact that the SC games are being rotated." I may not be able to get up the next time. Other than that I agree 100% with your post. Sadly I doubt if the uil could care any less about any of the stuff you mentioned.

I see the error of my statement - should have said I like the "idea" of the SC games being rotated. Hopefully they will. Hope you have picked yourself off the floor there. And yes you are probably right, UIL doesn't give a damn about what the SC should be about, just the $$$ signs. Sad.

[Rocket Man]

I see the error of my statement - should have said I like the "idea" of the SC games being rotated. Hopefully they will. Hope you have picked yourself off the floor there. And yes you are probably right, UIL doesn't give a damn about what the SC should be about, just the $$$ signs. Sad.

Selfishly, I miss the days of the schools agreeing on a venue b/c a lot of them were played in Waco, a good geographical mid-point.

[WOS87]

Got the numbers from the Dallas Morning News -about half way down the page.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/high-school/high-schools/2015/12/19/move-dallas-houston-reason-decline-attendance-state-championships

Of COURSE it would be a Dallas reference. Both references I saw were very close to the same. 13,600+

http://lonestargridiron.com/2015/12/west-orange-stark-denies-celina-9th-title/

http://www.orangeleader.com/2015/12/18/mustangs-wear-the-crown/

I can't tell you what their primary source was but I know I was at the game and I saw more than 8000 people there.

[PurplePop]

Of COURSE it would be a Dallas reference. Both references I saw were very close to the same. 13,600+

http://lonestargridiron.com/2015/12/west-orange-stark-denies-celina-9th-title/

http://www.orangeleader.com/2015/12/18/mustangs-wear-the-crown/

I can't tell you what their primary source was but I know I was at the game and I saw more than 8000 people there.

I'm pretty sure the 7,932 figure was a mistake in the Dallas paper. I think that was the Argyle-La Vega attendance. La Vega must have brought a really small crowd. BTW, your 13,635 was less than a 10% drop from your Gilmer game last year (14,953) and is a pretty good gauge in this bigger discussion that the 40% overall drop in attendance was more related to which teams were playing than anything else.

[Saggy Aggie]

I'm pretty sure the 7,932 figure was a mistake in the Dallas paper. I think that was the Argyle-La Vega attendance. La Vega must have brought a really small crowd. BTW, your 13,635 was less than a 10% drop from your Gilmer game last year (14,953) and is a pretty good gauge in this bigger discussion that the 40% overall drop in attendance was more related to which teams were playing than anything else.

Hmmmm.......

[PurplePop]

Correction to the following comment in my earlier post:

"A look at the 5A and 6A finalists of the last 5 years reveals a grand total of ZERO schools in this 'new school-no fan base' category."

In 2011 at AT&T, Spring Dekaney played Cibolo Steele in the 5A-DII finals (now 6A-DII). Steele was five years old at the time and Dekaney was four.

Attendance: 15,092

[Gobbler Fan]

Correction to the following comment in my earlier post:

"A look at the 5A and 6A finalists of the last 5 years reveals a grand total of ZERO schools in this 'new school-no fan base' category."

In 2011 at AT&T, Spring Dekaney played Cibolo Steele in the 5A-DII finals (now 6A-DII). Steele was five years old at the time and Dekaney was four.

Attendance: 15,092


They don't want to see that they just want to point fingers and say...I told you so

[footballgal]

Move it to State Farm Arena in the RGV, we will fill it, granted it's a small venue 😃

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