Gilmer 2014 vs 1983 D 'field defense

[Buckeye1980]

Never thought an offense could beat that defense but maybe second thoughts now...your thoughts? :stirpot:

[lostaussie]

Let's please not go there. Can't we just enjoy what we got:doh:

[Celina8]

My thoughts on when you try to compare teams from the past then you have to consider what that 1983 team would be like in 2014 with all the supplements , new weight and conditioning programs that were not available to them plus they would be bigger and stronger than back then. Basically give them 10 % improvement for every 10 years out so that would make the 1983 Daingerfield players 30% better than they were then in terms of speed , strength, size and skill. It would be a heck of a game I think.

[HEMOTOXIC]

Come on now, Gilmer barely squeezed out wins vs Gladewater and Tatum. I'm with lostaussie, let's not go there.

[Rabid Cougar]

My thoughts on when you try to compare teams from the past then you have to consider what that 1983 team would be like in 2014 with all the supplements , new weight and conditioning programs that were not available to them plus they would be bigger and stronger than back then. Basically give them 10 % improvement for every 10 years out so that would make the 1983 Daingerfield players 30% better than they were then in terms of speed , strength, size and skill. It would be a heck of a game I think.


There is no comparison between size of present players and back then. Present teams would dominate any team from back in the day. On the '81 Cameron's SC team didn't have an O Lineman over 195 lbs. Today my sons former team's O linemen average 240 lbs. We had two rbs that weighed as much or more than any of them. We were athletically gifted but not near what a comparable team is today. Even in college, my Aggie SWC Champion team's O line averaged 275. D linemen were in the 240-260 range. The one thing that isn't any different is speed. Fast is fast.

We also didn't have the specialized training in the Summer like Performance Course, which all the big time Metroplex teams use. Lots of personalized trainers to now-a-days.

If today's Cameron Yoemen played our SC team from '81, we could probably run on them (wing T power sweeps) but we sure as hell could not stop them and their passing game with their speed.

[Celina8]

There is no comparison between size of present players and back then. Present teams would dominate any team from back in the day. On the '81 Cameron's SC team didn't have an O Lineman over 195 lbs. Today my sons former team's O linemen average 240 lbs. We had two rbs that weighed as much or more than any of them. We were athletically gifted but not near what a comparable team is today. Even in college, my Aggie SWC Champion team's O line averaged 275. D linemen were in the 240-260 range. The one thing that isn't any different is speed. Fast is fast.

We also didn't have the specialized training in the Summer like Performance Course, which all the big time Metroplex teams use. Lots of personalized trainers to now-a-days.

If today's Cameron Yoemen played our SC team from '81, we could probably run on them (wing T power sweeps) but we sure as hell could not stop them and their passing game with their speed.

That is way I said you would need to increase the 1983 teams size , speed, and strength at least 30% or more than when they played in 83. That would put the lineman around 235 to 240 if they played at 185.

[bearbear78]

That Dfield team , unstoppable.

[poisoned10]

Never thought an offense could beat that defense but maybe second thoughts now...your thoughts? :stirpot:


:doh:

[lostaussie]

Come on now, Gilmer barely squeezed out wins vs Gladewater and Tatum. I'm with lostaussie, let's not go there.

Well to be honest with you Gladewater was by far the best team we have played so far. You always have those types of games in the playoffs. We can't beat everyone by 40 every week. Survive and advance.....you should remember that from 2009

[bearbear78]

I think Gilmer 2014 could score on the 83 squad, but not enough. Now now nobody get riled, just scoring on that team is saying something. IMO

[HEMOTOXIC]

Well to be honest with you Gladewater was by far the best team we have played so far. You always have those types of games in the playoffs. We can't beat everyone by 40 every week. Survive and advance.....you should remember that from 2009

Ok, let me try to clean up what I meant. By no means am I knocking Gilmer.

What I am saying is that that some may argue that Daingerfield is one of the best teams/defenses to take the field in Texas High School football. Gilmer's offense is very good. Gilmer squeeked out a last second win against Gladewater which don't even come close to that Tiger team IMO.

[Gobbler Fan]

Lol I wont even go there

[cowboyandchrist]

Come on now, Gilmer barely squeezed out wins vs Gladewater and Tatum. I'm with lostaussie, let's not go there.

When are people ever going to get it. No team will ever compare to 83 Daingerfield. It was 580 offensive plays ran against that defense with a grand total of 580 feet not yards but feet. They were the fastest, hard hitting defense that ever played high school football. They would shut out Gilmer just like they did every other team. Kilgore scored on a punt that sailed over the punters head into the end zone. Carthage scored on a missed int by the Daingerfield corner back. Gilmer is a great offensive team just like Navasota in 2012, but neither one would score on Daingerfield in the 16 th ball game for the championship.

[movethechain]

In '83 there was no spread, no pistol, so there can be no comparison. Yes, I would expect the Daingerfield players to be on a higher level today with the improvements in training, coaching, etc, but I cannot see a meaningful way to measure THE best defense (ever) against one of the best offenses.

[cowboyandchrist]

That is way I said you would need to increase the 1983 teams size , speed, and strength at least 30% or more than when they played in 83. That would put the lineman around 235 to 240 if they played at 185.

You need to go back and look at the size of that Daingerfield team, they were big on both sides of the ball and just as fast as anybody now in the secondary and line backers. I saw them play.

[Celina8]

You need to go back and look at the size of that Daingerfield team, they were big on both sides of the ball and just as fast as anybody now in the secondary and line backers. I saw them play.

Not sure what there size was back then but whatever it was just add 30% to it and the same with their speed and strength.

[buckeyebob]

Ok, let me try to clean up what I meant. By no means am I knocking Gilmer.

What I am saying is that that some may argue that Daingerfield is one of the best teams/defenses to take the field in Texas High School football. Gilmer's offense is very good. Gilmer squeeked out a last second win against Gladewater which don't even come close to that Tiger team IMO.

The Bux have done the same on several playoff occasions over the years...my pacemaker went crazy & I got severe burns...Jasper SC 2004 was one..."Squeeking it out is what separates the champions

[YTBulldogs]

I think 3 from that Tiger secondary went to the pro's after college.

[Dawgs]

Probably should wait and see how they do against 2014 WOS D before we start comparing against all time great defenses. Just my opinion.

[coachc45]

There is no comparison between size of present players and back then. Present teams would dominate any team from back in the day. On the '81 Cameron's SC team didn't have an O Lineman over 195 lbs. Today my sons former team's O linemen average 240 lbs. We had two rbs that weighed as much or more than any of them. We were athletically gifted but not near what a comparable team is today. Even in college, my Aggie SWC Champion team's O line averaged 275. D linemen were in the 240-260 range. The one thing that isn't any different is speed. Fast is fast.

We also didn't have the specialized training in the Summer like Performance Course, which all the big time Metroplex teams use. Lots of personalized trainers to now-a-days.

If today's Cameron Yoemen played our SC team from '81, we could probably run on them (wing T power sweeps) but we sure as hell could not stop them and their passing game with their speed.

Part of the reason that Daingerfield was so good was their size. The o-line was huge.... LT 285 LG 260 C 220 RG 290 RT300 TE 260 TB 205 FB 205 wrs both around 185


Defensively they were small..... LE was 205, the rest of D-line ranged in the 180/185 range LBers were 180 Secondary was very talented and probably the strong point of the team. All 4 were D 1 or D 1aa. They also won the 4x400 at state with a 3:16

They dominated because they had kids like todays in the 80's

[lostaussie]

Probably should wait and see how they do against 2014 WOS D before we start comparing against all time great defenses. Just my opinion.

^^^^this^^^^^^

[rb585]

This thread has a very 2010 Brownwood vibe to it.

[Deuce]

This thread has a very 2010 Brownwood vibe to it.

Yep!!

[Sweetwater Red]

This thread has a very 2010 Brownwood vibe to it.

Except that Gilmer is actually playing for the state championship.

[waterboy]

I don't even care to compare. It really doesn't matter anyway. I just want to win a state championship first. If we do that, then and only then, the comparisons can be made. I still say, and always will say, that the '83 Daingerfield Tiger team set the standard that will never be duplicated, in my opinion. They were, and still are to this date, the most dominating team at any level I've ever seen.

[HEMOTOXIC]

The Bux have done the same on several playoff occasions over the years...my pacemaker went crazy & I got severe burns...Jasper SC 2004 was one..."Squeeking it out is what separates the champions

True.. I love those squeekers as long as we are on the winning side..:cheerl:

[hollywood]

Come on now, Gilmer barely squeezed out wins vs Gladewater and Tatum. I'm with lostaussie, let's not go there.

I'm with Hemo and lostaussie. No need to go there. To add though, players in the early 80's were mentally tougher than todays players. Fact jack.

[hollywood]

Part of the reason that Daingerfield was so good was their size. The o-line was huge.... LT 285 LG 260 C 220 RG 290 RT300 TE 260 TB 205 FB 205 wrs both around 185


Defensively they were small..... LE was 205, the rest of D-line ranged in the 180/185 range LBers were 180 Secondary was very talented and probably the strong point of the team. All 4 were D 1 or D 1aa. They also won the 4x400 at state with a 3:16

They dominated because they had kids like todays in the 80's

If the 83 team was given the same equipment as players have today, they would have been even better.

[movethechain]

I know Denis Alexander was HC at Daingerfield in '83, but who was HC at Pittsburg in 1980 when they only gave up 23 points all year? And for the more curious of us, who were the DCs on those '80 and '83 teams and are they still in coaching?

[Wonkas_Willy]

83 team is legendary. Gilmer is not...end of story

[YTBulldogs]

I know Denis Alexander was HC at Daingerfield in '83, but who was HC at Pittsburg in 1980 when they only gave up 23 points all year? And for the more curious of us, who were the DCs on those '80 and '83 teams and are they still in coaching?

Alexander is still coaching. Troup currently. And, Stan Williams, Harville few main guys on his staff. I'm not sure if they are still coaching.

[coach]

Never thought an offense could beat that defense but maybe second thoughts now...your thoughts? :stirpot:

Fairfield's offense was better last year.

[coachc45]

I know Denis Alexander was HC at Daingerfield in '83, but who was HC at Pittsburg in 1980 when they only gave up 23 points all year? And for the more curious of us, who were the DCs on those '80 and '83 teams and are they still in coaching?

Not sure about Pittsburg, but Daingerfield's DC was Jackie Mayfield. It was his first year at D'Field after being HC at Paul Pewitt the year before. Did an incredible job with that Defense.

[coachc45]

Alexander is still coaching. Troup currently. And, Stan Williams, Harville few main guys on his staff. I'm not sure if they are still coaching.

Harville was not part of the staff in 83, left after '82 season to go to Gilmer. I do not think any of the coaches are still coaching anywhere, except maybe Jim Roundtree.

[YTBulldogs]

Not sure about Pittsburg, but Daingerfield's DC was Jackie Mayfield. It was his first year at D'Field after being HC at Paul Pewitt the year before. Did an incredible job with that Defense.

45, you and I could of looked good with that bunch on the defensive side of the ball. Amazing accumulation of talent for a small school for sure. If I recall correct, the only TD allowed that year, came on a raining night, and Eric Everett slipped and they took a pass 70 yards.

[coachc45]

45, you and I could of looked good with that bunch on the defensive side of the ball. Amazing accumulation of talent for a small school for sure. If I recall correct, the only TD allowed that year, came on a raining night, and Eric Everett slipped and they took a pass 70 yards.

The TD was actually a tipped ball that the receiver caught sitting on his butt in the endzone. It sucked.... but who knew that was going to be the only points the defense gave up all year. Oh and my good buddy that snapped the ball over Pittman's head vs Kilgore has never lived it down. lol

[Txbroadcaster]

The TD was actually a tipped ball that the receiver caught sitting on his butt in the endzone. It sucked.... but who knew that was going to be the only points the defense gave up all year. Oh and my good buddy that snapped the ball over Pittman's head vs Kilgore has never lived it down. lol


Was it the current coach of Sunnyvale?

[YTBulldogs]

The TD was actually a tipped ball that the receiver caught sitting on his butt in the endzone. It sucked.... but who knew that was going to be the only points the defense gave up all year. Oh and my good buddy that snapped the ball over Pittman's head vs Kilgore has never lived it down. lol

I knew Doug, never really knew his brother when we lived in Jenkins.

[coachc45]

Was it the current coach of Sunnyvale?
The one and only!

[Dawgs]

Fairfield's offense was better last year.

I'm not going to say they were better, but from what I saw in the state game I think it was very close. I have only seen Gilmer twice this year, and only saw FF in the ship. Not too much to compare, but that FF offense was awesome. If Rose III doesn't run out of gas I think FF would be talked about as one of the top offenses of all times. That game at Jerry World was one of the funnest games I have ever seen. Thanks for reminding me. Like I said I have a very small sample size, but Rose III put on one of the best performances I have ever seen. Special teams was the difference. Argyle and Sadler made more plays in the end, but it was a heck of a performance by that O. On another note 3a seemed much deeper last year to me. I mean you had Argyle, FF, Carthage, Kilgore in the finals. I honestly think all 4 of those teams could win the ship this year hands down. No knock on the teams of this year, just an opinion.

[oldtownag]

45, you and I could of looked good with that bunch on the defensive side of the ball. Amazing accumulation of talent for a small school for sure. If I recall correct, the only TD allowed that year, came on a raining night, and Eric Everett slipped and they took a pass 70 yards.

The legend grows.

Carthage scored the only TD. It was on a 54 yard pass play from Ricky Rougely to Wyche Walton. Carthage led 6-3 but Daingerfield went on a long time consuming drive in the last 7 minutes to score and win 10-6.

Carthage went on to the 4A Semi-finals before losing to Lubbock-Estacado 16-20.

I know this because I was sitting on the bench. :2thumbsup

[coach]

I'm not going to say they were better, but from what I saw in the state game I think it was very close. I have only seen Gilmer twice this year, and only saw FF in the ship. Not too much to compare, but that FF offense was awesome. If Rose III doesn't run out of gas I think FF would be talked about as one of the top offenses of all times. That game at Jerry World was one of the funnest games I have ever seen. Thanks for reminding me. Like I said I have a very small sample size, but Rose III put on one of the best performances I have ever seen. Special teams was the difference. Argyle and Sadler made more plays in the end, but it was a heck of a performance by that O. On another note 3a seemed much deeper last year to me. I mean you had Argyle, FF, Carthage, Kilgore in the finals. I honestly think all 4 of those teams could win the ship this year hands down. No knock on the teams of this year, just an opinion.


Ity was a special season. Did you see what Larry did this year? First freshaman since 1995 to gain 1,000 yards. one of the few freshman to do it in the entire country and he is from podunk Fairfield!

[YTBulldogs]

Carthage scored the only TD. It was on a 54 yard pass play from Ricky Rougely to Wyche Walton.

I know this because I was sitting on the bench. :2thumbsup

I agree, cause I was there too. Raining and EE slipped on the coverage.

[coachc45]

I agree, cause I was there too. Raining and EE slipped on the coverage.

I don't remember the rain. Do remember holding that vaunted running back, Roscoe Tatum, to 36 yards. I was on the sidelines also..... being a student manager. Was a sophomore JV player that they took with them on Friday nights. Was an incredible experience. Lots of football games since then. 2 more years on varsity and 23 years of coaching and some of the details are hazy.

[Jchristian]

April 24, 2012
1980 Pittsburg Pirates: Greatness in the shadows?
Grant Goodwin
TheOldCoach.com Staff Writer

Talk about it in East Texas Forum

The 1983 Daingerfield Tigers are widely considered one of the best high school football teams ever. The 83' Daingerfield defense gave up a total of 8 points on their way to a 16-0 State Championship. When you consider the offense put up a total of 631 points, who can argue? The 1980 16-0 State Champion Pittsburg Pirates seem to have gotten lost in the shadow of 1983 Daingerfield.
Consider the numbers. The Pirates gave up a grand total of 23 points the entire season. That is 23 points in 16 games. Even more impressive is the fact that 14 of those points were against Mount Pleasant (who had played Class 4A Finalist Paris to within two touchdowns) in week one of the season. Week four would be the only other regular season game in which the Pittsburg defense would allow any points. Jacksonville scored 7 in a 14-7 loss to the Pirates.

Pittsburg held all opponents scoreless from week 5 all the way to the State Semi-Finals. It was only in the State Championship game where they would surrender any points, that was a Van Vleck safety as Pittsburg defeated the Leopards for the 1980 State Championship game 13-2.

Better than 1983 Daingerfield? Probably not, but this team should be in the discussion.

Wk. 1 Pittsburg 15 Mt. Pleasant 14 Wk. 2 Pittsburg 34 Jefferson 0 Wk. 3 Pittsburg 47 Linden Kildare 0 Wk. 4 Pittsburg 14 Jacksonville 7 Wk. 5 Pittsburg 21 Daingerfield 0 Wk. 6 Pittsburg 16 Paris N. Lamar 0 Wk. 7 Pittsburg 34 Pattonville Prairie 0 Wk. 8 Pittsburg 47 Mount Vernon 0 Wk. 9 Pittsburg 50 Winnsboro 0 Wk. 10 Pittsburg 33 Clarksville 0 Bi-Dist Pittsburg 21 DeKalb 0 Area Pittsburg 24 Van 0 Qtr Final Pittsburg 28 Decatur 0 Semifinal Pittsburg 35 Stamford 0 Finals Pittsburg 13 Van Vleck 2

Grant Goodwin ggoodwin@theoldcoach.com

[Jchristian]

The Decatur team that Pittsburg beat 28-0 was as good as any team we'd had up to that point. It was only 14-0 at th half, but I told my wife we could leave then because there was NO WAY! We were going to win that game. Never saw '83 tiger team, but hard to imagine them any better than Pit.