Ohio State kid who got laid out by coach

[caleb_mccaig]

I'm assuming everyone either saw or heard about the strength and conditioning coach who laid out the student who ran onto the field by now.....

Well the thing I want to discuss is, is that the student is being charged with misdemeanor criminal trespassing and before the case has even gone to trial or is even a week old his scholarship was pulled. He's a fourth-year engineering student and lost a scholarship that paid for his housing and education. From what I read, it sounded like a full scholarship.

Now my question is, why is this happening when athletes get in trouble all of the time and sometimes even commit even more serious crimes and stay on scholarship? If this isn't an eye opener as to who colleges really favor, someone who may have success for 3-4 years and then possibly never achieve anything in the professional world, over those who are actually there to pursue a career that will last 40+ years and actually give the university a good name.

I'm getting sick of it.

[JJWalker]

Life isn't fair.

[Rabid Cougar]

There have been lots of athletes that have lost their scholarships due to personal conduct. Either it was taken away or not renewed. Nine of them at Unversity of Texas this year alone. Ryan had numerous team mates run off at UNT due to personal conduct/criminal activity. Granted, there are lots of them that get second chances too. Remains to be seen if the OSU student gets a second chance. He is not kicked out of school as of yet. There is a big difference in having you scholarship terminated and being kicked out of school.

[coachc45]

I'm assuming everyone either saw or heard about the strength and conditioning coach who laid out the student who ran onto the field by now.....

Well the thing I want to discuss is, is that the student is being charged with misdemeanor criminal trespassing and before the case has even gone to trial or is even a week old his scholarship was pulled. He's a fourth-year engineering student and lost a scholarship that paid for his housing and education. From what I read, it sounded like a full scholarship.

Now my question is, why is this happening when athletes get in trouble all of the time and sometimes even commit even more serious crimes and stay on scholarship? If this isn't an eye opener as to who colleges really favor, someone who may have success for 3-4 years and then possibly never achieve anything in the professional world, over those who are actually there to pursue a career that will last 40+ years and actually give the university a good name.

I'm getting sick of it.

Every University has a set of standards that everyone in the University must follow. Then each PROGRAM in the University sets standards that they want their representatives to follow. They are usually a little more stringent than the University policy. If the Engineering Department has set a standard of conduct that they want people under scholarship to follow, then the kid better follow it. Obviously, the Engineering department didn't want to pay for this kid's school anymore due to the embarrassment that kid brought them.

It isn't about the University letting certain kids get away with stuff and others not. This was the Engineering departments decision and that is how it should be taken.

Don't make an issue of something that is not really there.

[Macarthur]

Every University has a set of standards that everyone in the University must follow. Then each PROGRAM in the University sets standards that they want their representatives to follow. They are usually a little more stringent than the University policy. If the Engineering Department has set a standard of conduct that they want people under scholarship to follow, then the kid better follow it. Obviously, the Engineering department didn't want to pay for this kid's school anymore due to the embarrassment that kid brought them.

It isn't about the University letting certain kids get away with stuff and others not. This was the Engineering departments decision and that is how it should be taken.

Don't make an issue of something that is not really there.

I actually think Caleb has a point here. There are guys on virtually every D1 roster that have all sorts of arrests and convictions and get multiple 2nd chances. I don't think anyone is saying the Engineering Dept doesn't have a right to hold students to a code of conduct. I think what some are saying is why is there such a disparity in what we will tolerate within different segments of the student body?

[SWMustang]

I guess the lesson is that you should commit your misdemeanors against the community and not the university. Or step up your football skills so you can engage in rape and assault with impunity.

[coachc45]

I actually think Caleb has a point here. There are guys on virtually every D1 roster that have all sorts of arrests and convictions and get multiple 2nd chances. I don't think anyone is saying the Engineering Dept doesn't have a right to hold students to a code of conduct. I think what some are saying is why is there such a disparity in what we will tolerate within different segments of the student body?

I don't think there is. No one says that WE tolerate different things, I said that the engineering department at OSU has their own standards.

But let me try to explain. D1 Universities have multi million dollar businesses in their Football Programs. Most of the University Academic budget comes from "football" revenues. Their is a ton of pressure to win and with that comes a little bit more tolerance in who represents them. Football programs tend to follow more closely to the University guidelines and do not add extra standards. On the other hand, the Engineering program has much more limited financial resources and must "safeguard" their money. If they have a kid that they feel does not represent them as they deem acceptable, they will be eradicate the problem quicker.

College Athletics is a microcosm of the real world. If an Executive in a major corporation gets a DUI, he keeps his job. If the assistant to the assistant gets one, they are fired.

Not fair? Absolutely its not, but no one said life was fair.

[Txbroadcaster]

What he did was dumb..but should it be possibly life altering situation..not IMO

[coachc45]

What he did was dumb..but should it be possibly life altering situation..not IMO

I totally agree. But if I am giving someone a $100,000 gift I would expect him to represent me in the way I think I should be represented. I wouldn't yank his money personally, but obviously it pissed off the professors at OSU.

If you don't want your scholarship taken, then don't embarrass the man with the money.


Academic scholarships don't come easy, at least Full Rides don't. They also come with pretty high expectations. Better know what they are before you do stupid stuff.

[Gen.Pat]

The kid took a stupid pill and is paying for it.

[Pudlugger]

Well there's always student loans. He 'll have20years to think about his foolishness while paying them off.

[Macarthur]

I don't think there is. No one says that WE tolerate different things, I said that the engineering department at OSU has their own standards.

But let me try to explain. D1 Universities have multi million dollar businesses in their Football Programs. Most of the University Academic budget comes from "football" revenues. Their is a ton of pressure to win and with that comes a little bit more tolerance in who represents them. Football programs tend to follow more closely to the University guidelines and do not add extra standards. On the other hand, the Engineering program has much more limited financial resources and must "safeguard" their money. If they have a kid that they feel does not represent them as they deem acceptable, they will be eradicate the problem quicker.

College Athletics is a microcosm of the real world. If an Executive in a major corporation gets a DUI, he keeps his job. If the assistant to the assistant gets one, they are fired.

Not fair? Absolutely its not, but no one said life was fair.

You're not telling us anything we don't already know. We know 'that's the way the world works'. But just because that's the way it's always been doesn't make it right.

I think it also needs to be taken into account the severity of the actions. We have guys on D1 rosters that have felonies on their record. This kid get drunk and runs onto a football field and looses his scholarship. The guy that rapes a girl or puts some skinny college kid in the hospital with a single punch and miss one half of a game or something like that.

[pancho villa]

Life sucks! This was a kid that should know better. Not a dumb football player.

[caleb_mccaig]

College football programs do make a large chunk of the money, but how many athletic boosters that pay for stadiums or donate things like indoor practice facilities, or buildings to the school were once athletes? Drayton McLane or T. Boone Pickens (Pickens played Baskeball at A&M before losing the scholarship, was never on athletic scholarship at Oklahoma State) for example didn't play sports at their alma maters and I bet they've donated more money to their respective schools than they make in a football season.

The issue is, is that if normal students get the crap end of the stick they're going to stop supporting it in some way. Attendance in college football games with students is already at an all-time low. If the academic students continue to be overlooked by the university, eventually the "alumni" which are really the ones who fund the athletic programs and schools, will lose interest.

[coachc45]

College football programs do make a large chunk of the money, but how many athletic boosters that pay for stadiums or donate things like indoor practice facilities, or buildings to the school were once athletes? Drayton McLane or T. Boone Pickens (Pickens played Baskeball at A&M before losing the scholarship, was never on athletic scholarship at Oklahoma State) for example didn't play sports at their alma maters and I bet they've donated more money to their respective schools than they make in a football season.

The issue is, is that if normal students get the crap end of the stick they're going to stop supporting it in some way. Attendance in college football games with students is already at an all-time low. If the academic students continue to be overlooked by the university, eventually the "alumni" which are really the ones who fund the athletic programs and schools, will lose interest.

What are you basing your facts on? Where does it say anywhere that student attendance at games is at an "all-time" low?

Do you know how many "normal students" have felonies on their record and are still in schoool? Of course you don't. But I can guarantee there are a ton more than football players that have them.

You are taking an isolated incident and turning it into "normal Students" versus athletes. You neglect the fact that a student body has as diverse a make-up as the real world. There are convicted criminals sitting in every class with you. The rules at a University are not set up to favor one group or another. They do not make special cases for athletes. Just like in this case "THE UNIVERSITY" did not take his scholarship. The people giving the money took it!!!!!

Dude screwed up and he lost his scholarship..... that is it. Not a conspiracy.

[coachc45]

You're not telling us anything we don't already know. We know 'that's the way the world works'. But just because that's the way it's always been doesn't make it right.

I think it also needs to be taken into account the severity of the actions. We have guys on D1 rosters that have felonies on their record. This kid get drunk and runs onto a football field and looses his scholarship. The guy that rapes a girl or puts some skinny college kid in the hospital with a single punch and miss one half of a game or something like that.

Dude lost his scholarship because the people supplying the money took it. The University did not take his scholarship. It is not apples to apples. It is easy to jump to conclusions on here, but the fact is THE UNIVERSITY did not take his scholarship. So there is NO comparison.

[Macarthur]

What are you basing your facts on? Where does it say anywhere that student attendance at games is at an "all-time" low?

Do you know how many "normal students" have felonies on their record and are still in schoool? Of course you don't. But I can guarantee there are a ton more than football players that have them.

I actually would like to look this up and will try. I would be willing to bet that as a %, athletes have higher arrest rates than the general student population.


You are taking an isolated incident and turning it into "normal Students" versus athletes. You neglect the fact that a student body has as diverse a make-up as the real world. There are convicted criminals sitting in every class with you.

This is a bit dramatic. I would be willing to bet that your chance of sitting next to a someone that has a conviction on their record in your average engineering class is much lower than if you lived in the athletics dorm.


The rules at a University are not set up to favor one group or another. They do not make special cases for athletes.

You may be right about 'rules' but if you think the same rules apply, you are either not paying attention or naive.

[Macarthur]

Well, that was easy....

-A 3 year study shows that while male student-athletes comprise 3.3% of the population, they represent 19% of sexual assault perpetrators and 35% of domestic violence perpetrators. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-One in three college sexual assaults are committed by athletes. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-In the three years before 1998, an average of 1000 charges were brought against athletes each year. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-In 1995, while only 8.5% of the general population was charged with assault, 36.8% of athletes were charged with assault. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-The general population has a conviction rate of 80%. The conviction rate of an athlete is 38%. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-A new incident of athlete crime emerges once every two days - that does NOT include crimes that were unreported in the media. (NCAVA)

-84% of the public believes colleges should revoke the scholarship of a player convicted of a crime. (ESPN SportsZone Poll)

-20% of college football recruits in the Top 25 Division I teams have criminal records.

-A college rapist will have raped seven times before being caught.

http://www.ncava.org/statistics.html

And just for the record, I"m no crusader because I was a college athlete. These statistics bring me no great joy whatsoever.

[pancho villa]

What are you basing your facts on? Where does it say anywhere that student attendance at games is at an "all-time" low?

Do you know how many "normal students" have felonies on their record and are still in schoool? Of course you don't. But I can guarantee there are a ton more than football players that have them.

You are taking an isolated incident and turning it into "normal Students" versus athletes. You neglect the fact that a student body has as diverse a make-up as the real world. There are convicted criminals sitting in every class with you. The rules at a University are not set up to favor one group or another. They do not make special cases for athletes. Just like in this case "THE UNIVERSITY" did not take his scholarship. The people giving the money took it!!!!!

Dude screwed up and he lost his scholarship..... that is it. Not a conspiracy.

Wrong there Cochise They do have special classes for athletes.

[coachc45]

I actually would like to look this up and will try. I would be willing to bet that as a %, athletes have higher arrest rates than the general student population.



This is a bit dramatic. I would be willing to bet that your chance of sitting next to a someone that has a conviction on their record in your average engineering class is much lower than if you lived in the athletics dorm.



You may be right about 'rules' but if you think the same rules apply, you are either not paying attention or naive.

I am absolutely paying attention. How many normal students get arrested for public intoxication on a thursday night in any college town? How many of those get kicked out of their programs or suspended? How many get national media attention?

You act like on college campuses the only people screwing up are "athletes". 90% of the people with criminal records are "Normal Students", they just don't get the media attention. Both my kids are in college at this moment, and they tell stories everyday about the crazy stuff the "normal kids" are doing evry night at their school. You have 10,000-40,000 young adults on a typical college campus and you think that the majority of the people with criminal records are sitting in the athletic dorm.....who is the naive one?

Trust me, in the typical Engineering class you are sitting near a convicted criminal. Just nobody knows about it. Realize that what you see everyday on ESPN is not the whole story. The people committing most of the crime on a college campus have absolutely nothing to do with athletics.

[coachc45]

Wrong there Cochise They do have special classes for athletes.

I said "CASES" not classes.

Oh and they have special classes for non-athletes too.

[pancho villa]

PI's are not criminal(just foolish). Sexual assualt is.

[coachc45]

Well, that was easy....

-A 3 year study shows that while male student-athletes comprise 3.3% of the population, they represent 19% of sexual assault perpetrators and 35% of domestic violence perpetrators. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-One in three college sexual assaults are committed by athletes. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-In the three years before 1998, an average of 1000 charges were brought against athletes each year. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-In 1995, while only 8.5% of the general population was charged with assault, 36.8% of athletes were charged with assault. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-The general population has a conviction rate of 80%. The conviction rate of an athlete is 38%. (Benedict/Crosset Study)

-A new incident of athlete crime emerges once every two days - that does NOT include crimes that were unreported in the media. (NCAVA)

-84% of the public believes colleges should revoke the scholarship of a player convicted of a crime. (ESPN SportsZone Poll)

-20% of college football recruits in the Top 25 Division I teams have criminal records.

-A college rapist will have raped seven times before being caught.

http://www.ncava.org/statistics.html

And just for the record, I"m no crusader because I was a college athlete. These statistics bring me no great joy whatsoever.

I didn't say they don't commit crimes, hell I know they do. I just say that "Normal Students" do too. You have great stats, but they also bear out my point. Most of the criminals on a campus are not Athletes. The only "Stat" i did ask was for Caleb to back up that "student attendance at games is at an all-time low"

[coachc45]

PI's are not criminal(just foolish). Sexual assualt is.

You are right and wrong...... PI is criminal, it is against the law. Sexual assault is also very criminal, and at Mac pointed out......81% of Sexual Assault is committed by non-Athletes.

I have not argued that athletes are squeaky clean, I have just argued that this case of a kid losing a scholarship had nothing to do with the University being harder on this kid than they are on athletes. The University did not take the kid's scholarship. FACT!!!!

Full ride academic scholarships are not financed by a University, they are financed through public endowments. With those come stringent rules. Not from the university, but from the endowing party.... why is that so hard to understand?

[Macarthur]

I didn't say they don't commit crimes, hell I know they do. I just say that "Normal Students" do too. You have great stats, but they also bear out my point. Most of the criminals on a campus are not Athletes. The only "Stat" i did ask was for Caleb to back up that "student attendance at games is at an all-time low"

And no one said 'normal students' don't commit crimes.

What we disagree on is that Athletes commit crimes at a much higher rate than does the general student population. And those tend to be more violent crimes, as the statistics point out. On top of that, they generally get multiple chances to screw up before something is done. Perfect example.

http://www.cbssports.com/general/writer/gregg-doyel/23037889/star-tailback-jeremy-hill-is-back-at-lsu-but-dont-blame-les-miles

[Macarthur]

You are right and wrong...... PI is criminal, it is against the law. Sexual assault is also very criminal, and at Mac pointed out......81% of Sexual Assault is committed by non-Athletes.

I have not argued that athletes are squeaky clean, I have just argued that this case of a kid losing a scholarship had nothing to do with the University being harder on this kid than they are on athletes. The University did not take the kid's scholarship. FACT!!!!

Full ride academic scholarships are not financed by a University, they are financed through public endowments. With those come stringent rules. Not from the university, but from the endowing party.... why is that so hard to understand?

YOu are hiding behind symantics and nuance here.

No one is saying the genreal student body doesn't do bad things. It is a statistical fact that athletes do this at a much higher rate than does the general student body. And the punishments do not fit the crime and are not proportional.

[coachc45]

YOu are hiding behind symantics and nuance here.

No one is saying the genreal student body doesn't do bad things. It is a statistical fact that athletes do this at a much higher rate than does the general student body. And the punishments do not fit the crime and are not proportional.

That is the problem. You think the argument is about athletes getting chances and so forth. The argument is not about that. The argument is that this kid screwed up and got his scholarship taken, and the University didn't take it.

This case has nothing to do with all that other stuff! This argument has turned into Athletes vs Normal Students, but that has nothing to do with this situation. You guys turned it into an issue that it is not. And that was my argument all along.

[Macarthur]

That is the problem. You think the argument is about athletes getting chances and so forth. The argument is not about that. The argument is that this kid screwed up and got his scholarship taken, and the University didn't take it.

This case has nothing to do with all that other stuff! This argument has turned into Athletes vs Normal Students, but that has nothing to do with this situation. You guys turned it into an issue that it is not. And that was my argument all along.

I think we're talking past each other.

This is from the OP:

"Now my question is, why is this happening when athletes get in trouble all of the time and sometimes even commit even more serious crimes and stay on scholarship? If this isn't an eye opener as to who colleges really favor, someone who may have success for 3-4 years and then possibly never achieve anything in the professional world, over those who are actually there to pursue a career that will last 40+ years and actually give the university a good name. "

The point the OP and I are trying to make is more of a bigger picture. I personally think this kid's punishment did not fit the crime. What he did was stupid and worthy of discipline, but pulling his ship is excessive. But that's beside the bigger point, IMO.

Athletes are treated differently and the argument that 'that's the way it's always been' is not a valid reason for why this crap continues. It's a big huge money making machines and all these universities have skin in it. They are all guilty to some extent. What it seemed was that you were trying to make the argument that the general student population is just as guilty of these crimes or even more guilty. And I clearly showed that statistically, that is false.

[coachc45]

I think we're talking past each other.

This is from the OP:

"Now my question is, why is this happening when athletes get in trouble all of the time and sometimes even commit even more serious crimes and stay on scholarship? If this isn't an eye opener as to who colleges really favor, someone who may have success for 3-4 years and then possibly never achieve anything in the professional world, over those who are actually there to pursue a career that will last 40+ years and actually give the university a good name. "

The point the OP and I are trying to make is more of a bigger picture. I personally think this kid's punishment did not fit the crime. What he did was stupid and worthy of discipline, but pulling his ship is excessive. But that's beside the bigger point, IMO.

Athletes are treated differently and the argument that 'that's the way it's always been' is not a valid reason for why this crap continues. It's a big huge money making machines and all these universities have skin in it. They are all guilty to some extent. What it seemed was that you were trying to make the argument that the general student population is just as guilty of these crimes or even more guilty. And I clearly showed that statistically, that is false.

We are not talking past each other. He asked why the kid was punished harsher than the athletes. He siad that COLLEGES favor athletes more. My response has been and remains, that this case doesn't show that. This kid was not punished by the college. This kid was punished by the people who gave him the scholarship. Everything else y'all have said is conjecture.

My other point was that college kids do get in trouble, everyday, and no one knows about it. Football players get suspended and kicked out of programs for things that normal kids do not..... fact. There have been cases this year alone where the people on here have wanted players removed from teams for minor stuff..... i.e. Jameis Winston and his inappropriate yelling in the SU. Do you think if a normal student did the same thing any punishment would've been given out..... no it wouldn't. Like I said before, there are kids (normal students) who get convicted of crimes and stay in school also. So to blanket say that athletes get 2nd chances and non-athletes do not is false.


This case was not the University..... it was a privately endowed scholarship that was taken away through the rules of the Endowment, the University did not do it.

[Macarthur]

There have been cases this year alone where the people on here have wanted players removed from teams for minor stuff..... i.e. Jameis Winston and his inappropriate yelling in the SU.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because there seems to be a pretty large gulf between what we deem 'minor stuff' for college kids.

[coachc45]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because there seems to be a pretty large gulf between what we deem 'minor stuff' for college kids.

What do you consider minor? My example was pretty self-explanatory.

Don't throw out this kid's incident either, because we both agree it was very minor. My argument has never been that he should lose his scholarship, my argument has been that the University didn't take it.

[Macarthur]

I don't think you can consider Winston's transgression minor in light of his previous endeavors.

[coachc45]

I don't think you can consider Winston's transgression minor in light of his previous endeavors.



Sure you can. The offense was minor..... STUPID but still minor. I don't care if he is a mass murderer, saying something stupid is minor.

[coachc45]

I don't think you can consider Winston's transgression minor in light of his previous endeavors.

maybe i used the wrong example then..... last summer everyone on here want Manziel kicked off aTm for kid stuff. Someone on this very thread has said that drinking is not criminal, didn't stop everyone from wanting him crucified.

[Macarthur]

Not everyone. I think most of what Manziel did would fall under the category of 'minor' college kids being knucklehead type stuff.

You're right; Winston is not a good example of that. By all indications, that guy is a legitimate criminal.

[Macarthur]

Which makes the whole Manziel thing all the more amazing to me. Manziel got far more negative criticism in the media, IMO, than Winston has gotten. And that just boggles my mind.

[caleb_mccaig]

Here is the article about how college student attendance is decreasing.....http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10458047/next-generation-ticket-holder-concern-students-show-college-football-games

I know many SEC schools have already suspended greek and other student organization tickets and seats because they don't stay the whole game or no one shows up.


Also, as someone who has gotten a PI, calling me a criminal is a joke. As my step-dad, who used to be a Texas Ranger and U.S. Marshall told me, it's the equivalent of getting a speeding ticket. So if a student getting a PI makes him a criminal than that makes everyone who has received a speeding ticket one as well.

A class C misdemeanor has no jail time and only a fine of less than $500.

[JJWalker]

Here is the article about how college student attendance is decreasing.....http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10458047/next-generation-ticket-holder-concern-students-show-college-football-games

I know many SEC schools have already suspended greek and other student organization tickets and seats because they don't stay the whole game or no one shows up.


Also, as someone who has gotten a PI, calling me a criminal is a joke. As my step-dad, who used to be a Texas Ranger and U.S. Marshall told me, it's the equivalent of getting a speeding ticket. So if a student getting a PI makes him a criminal than that makes everyone who has received a speeding ticket one as well.
You're not ... that ... criminal.

[Rabid Cougar]

Wrong there Cochise They do have special classes for athletes.

Really????? News to me. They might have special study sessions with tudors and academic advisors... but no, there are no "special" classes.

[caleb_mccaig]

Really????? News to me. They might have special study sessions with tudors and academic advisors... but no, there are no "special" classes.

When I went to Baylor it was a proven fact that when students enrolled in classes each semester that athletes got first choice over all academic only students. All athletes were required to take a certain religion class which was miles easier than any of the other ones, my roommate was lucky enough to somehow get in it. There may not be "certain classes for athletes," but the athletes do get first pick on who they want which means a lot in college.

[Cam]

caleb....I'm just glad you didn't omit the word "out" in your thread title!!...otherwise, this would've been an even bigger story!!!.....:doh:

[Saggy Aggie]

Well there's always student loans. He 'll have20years to think about his foolishness while paying them off.
If it takes you 20 years to pay off 1 years worth of student loans, you're an idiot