Tommy John Surgery

[maestro]

What's everyone's theory on the epidemic going on in MLB?

I believe the count is 19 and rising among professional pitchers.

Could year round pitching be the cause?

[caleb_mccaig]

What's everyone's theory on the epidemic going on in MLB?

I believe the count is 19 and rising among professional pitchers.

Could year round pitching be the cause?

There's no actual evidence that someone who throws more than someone else is more at risk for Tommy John. It comes from throwing breaking balls and from everyone that I know who has had it (four of my friends) it comes from one pitch.

[coach]

I believe it is due to the fact that everyone grew up trying to throw 100 mph. Not enough long toss and trying to power past the hitter will cause stress on the elbow. Teach young kids how to spot their pitches and paint the corners while continuing to throw long toss. They will increase their velocity with age.

[Rabid Cougar]

In actuallity there is not a primary cause. It is also not limited to pitchers so you cannot say it is one pitch, pitch counts or not enough this ot too much of that.

[NastySlot]

watching PAC 10 channel late one night replay of UCLA baseball play by play guys were talking that you rarely see the Latin American players having to have this and they went on to say that American (US) kids don't throw enough warm up and long toss to develop that they tend to not emphasize proper warm up and conditioning throughout the year.

Kind of see the point, most after the surgery make strong comebacks...not because of the magic of the surgery but the rehab and conditioning they do following the surgery.

[caleb_mccaig]

In actuallity there is not a primary cause. It is also not limited to pitchers so you cannot say it is one pitch, pitch counts or not enough this ot too much of that.

Yeah, one of my buddies who had to have it played first base and hadn't pitched in three years when had to get it. I suppose maybe there could be wear and tear over the years but everyone I personally know who has received the surgery made one throw, or one pitch and said they immediately felt discomfort, kind of like an ACL tear. It wasn't something that lingered and progressively got worse.

It's weird how we still have no idea what exactly the cause is, whether it's innings pitched or to many breaking balls.

I don't know anyone off the top of my head who throws gas and has gotten the surgery or discomfort after throwing a fastball.

Martin Perez and Jose Fernandez, both young and not from the United States, both throw ridiculous off speed that had a ton of movement and they both just had the surgery. Another young guy is Matt Harvey, also a dominant pitcher, but I've never watched him pitch so idk if he is mostly a FB guy or not.

[coach]

Well, Jose Fernandez and Martin Perez would disagree lol

[maestro]

Quote from Tommy John in this week's Sports Illustrated

High School sports have become year round. Your kid goes in every Saturday and works on pitching. I tell parents this: if the best pitchers in the world don't pitch year round, why should your kid?

Any thoughts on this?

[msu97]

Quote from Tommy John in this week's Sports Illustrated

High School sports have become year round. Your kid goes in every Saturday and works on pitching. I tell parents this: if the best pitchers in the world don't pitch year round, why should your kid?

Any thoughts on this?
I tell my kids the same thing... Tommy John has said this before... many pitchers have said this exact same thing... I believe I have heard Nolan Ryan say it as well...

could there be a direct relationship now with kids playing more select than before? parents in an effort to relive the "glory days" through their kid may have thrown caution to the wind in the effort to make their kid the best...

little league has a pitch count... but that is 75 pitches in a game...

[caleb_mccaig]

I think it's more of the best pitchers in the world don't have to pitch year round. Whenever kids are in high school trying to establish themselves there is no clue whatsoever who the best is. The only way to show your stuff is show it as much as you can. The only time people know who the best pitchers are in the world is when they're in the MLB and at that point there is literally nothing to gain by pitching more than you have to.

I think it has more to do with little league coaches and parents teaching kids to throw a curveball when they're 10 years old.

[maestro]

Info about the dangers of the little league curve ball has been in print now for years. I cannot believe that parents still throw caution to the wind.

I guarantee you select leagues probably have no pitch counts.

I would be interested in reading hook and ladder's comments. Or the coaches from West Columbia.

[Tejastrue]

From an ESPN interview with Dr. Frank Jobe...

BP: What about high school pitchers or younger? Would you limit their pitch counts? Or have them not throw curves possibly?

FJ: I don't think throwing the curve puts that much more stress on the arm. I think learning how to throw it does. That's why Little League kids get in trouble. They want to throw a curve so they spend every afternoon throwing to their dads, trying as hard as they can to get it. Then if they're good, the coach wants to win. If it's the playoffs, the same kid might pitch three days in a row.

BP: Is there a magic age for pitch counts? Would an 18-year-old have a different limit than someone who's 23 or 24?

FJ: When they're 18, the bones are softer, the cartilage is softer, they should definitely be limited. Once they're 21 or so, they're more fully developed. When they're younger, they can't tolerate quite the same trauma.
An example of what I'm talking about is if you look at the baseball draft, there are a high percentage of kids at 18 who have already had Tommy John procedures. This has really been in the last 10 years. It wasn't nearly that bad before. When the Dodgers are looking at a pitcher, I see their medical records; there were about five or six that had had it. There was one we drafted, it turned out he needed (Tommy John surgery) and in the record it said he didn't need it.



The rest of the interview...it took a while to load for me.

http://assets.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1431308.html

[maestro]

Thanks for posting this

[cookiemonster]

We lost three pitchers this year to the possibility of surgery. Each of them were given orders from the doctor that they needed to rest their arms and allow them to heal or face surgery. We are kidding ourselves if we think specialization is good for kids. Specialization causes kids to do the same movement repeatedly over and over and we are seeing serious consequences. Kids need to move from one sport to the next to allow their bodies time to heal from the stress that particular sport puts on their body. Each sport puts a different stress on the body and it must take time to heal. these people that think its good to play Select Tackle Football in the spring, Fall Baseball and 100 games during the summer, and Fall and summer basketball leagues are taking a huge risk that has caused a new buzz word "Over Use Injuries".

[refereedoc]

There's no actual evidence that someone who throws more than someone else is more at risk for Tommy John. It comes from throwing breaking balls and from everyone that I know who has had it (four of my friends) it comes from one pitch.

Sorry Caleb , but you got bad information on one pitch. It is an accumulation of overuse, sometimes bad mechanics, and yes breaking balls most likely from thrown at an early age over a period of time. Also lack of a good off season throwing program and genetics can all filter into the equation.

[refereedoc]

Really good article on the Jaeger off season throwing program:
http://www.jaegersports.com/press_articles.php?psid=35

[Be_Advised]

ASMI (Drs. James Andrews and Glenn Fleisig) position paper on Tommy John surgery epidemic is a must read.


http://www.asmi.org/research.php?page=research&section=TJpositionstatement