officiating: Celina/Argyle girls bb Region II final @ Commerce

[purring kitty]

Final seconds, Argyle commits three shot foul, refs blow whistle, buzzer sounds, players start lining up for free throws, refs throw up hands, declare game over, refs beat it out the door, Argyle awarded victory. Very suspicious, questionable. UIL owes a detailed explanation, 'cuz by all appearances, Celina was robbed until a lot more explanation is offered beyond the refs running for their cars. Square deal? Then UIL start talking.

[Bleed orange]

Final seconds, Argyle commits three shot foul, refs blow whistle, buzzer sounds, players start lining up for free throws, refs throw up hands, declare game over, refs beat it out the door, Argyle awarded victory. Very suspicious, questionable. UIL owes a detailed explanation, 'cuz by all appearances, Celina was robbed until a lot more explanation is offered beyond the refs running for their cars. Square deal? Then UIL start talking.

Check out twitter and look at all the comments from reporters that were there covering the game and other coaches that were there who have no ties to either team. It's turned into a huge topic of conversation.

[orange machine]

Check out twitter and look at all the comments from reporters that were there covering the game and other coaches that were there who have no ties to either team. It's turned into a huge topic of conversation.

Can u post those comments here?

[regaleagle]

Is there some kind of video available with the clock and buzzer included that would show the play? From what I understand from other officials, it's standard practice to immediately leave the floor once the game has been finalized...ie....Get outta Dodge quickly.

[Bleed orange]

Can u post those comments here?
If there is Im not smart enough to do it . Let me see if I can find twitter handles that you can look at

[Bleed orange]

@ben_baby @ coachdriggs @ martymackPBR

[Bleed orange]

And just to clarify Im not taking anything away from the Argyle girls because they're obviously an very deserving team . Just frustrating when officials decide a game at this point in the season. The moral of the story is one that we all know to well.. Don't put yourself in a position for refs to determine your destiny

[BLACK ATTACK]

As I said before, there certainly was a foul, but the girl traveled before the foul. He called that. Game over. 3 games, same result. You should be used to it by now.

[Bleed orange]

As I said before, there certainly was a foul, but the girl traveled before the foul. He called that. Game over. 3 games, same result. You should be used to it by now.

I realize you think you have a sense of entitlement being from Argyle but Im going to base my opinion on info from unbiased people( media , other coaches ) that were there.

[Bleed orange]

And just to get the facts straight the call was that the shot took place after the buzzer ..

[BLACK ATTACK]

only entitlement I have is going to state because we beat ya'll 3 times, count them. Got nothing to do because of where I reside. once could be a fluke, possibly twice but not likely, 3 times is just the reality of the situation. The sooner you deal with it, the better you will feel. Now run along and watch your you tube video. As far as your opinion, it has no bearing on anything, just like mine.

But just so you feel better. You guys have a real good track team and you have a shot at taking us down in football since we pretty much lost everyone. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Bleed orange]

As I said before, there certainly was a foul, but the girl traveled before the foul. He called that. Game over. 3 games, same result. You should be used to it by now.
Watch the YouTube video.. You're wrong .. As were the refs

[BLACK ATTACK]

Dude.....it's over. Find someone to discuss it with if you are struggling. Stuff happens in sports. Your a liar if you say you wouldn't feel different if the shoe was on the other foot. Better luck next year. 3 times in a season, the better team is going to Austin.

[Bleed orange]

Dude.....it's over. Find someone to discuss it with if you are struggling. Stuff happens in sports. Your a liar if you say you wouldn't feel different if the shoe was on the other foot. Better luck next year. 3 times in a season, the better team is going to Austin.

And you're a liar if you say that Celina didnt get screwed

[BLACK ATTACK]

Send you a pic from Austin

[bobcat1]

only entitlement I have is going to state because we beat ya'll 3 times, count them. Got nothing to do because of where I reside. once could be a fluke, possibly twice but not likely, 3 times is just the reality of the situation. The sooner you deal with it, the better you will feel. Now run along and watch your you tube video. As far as your opinion, it has no bearing on anything, just like mine.

But just so you feel better. You guys have a real good track team and you have a shot at taking us down in football since we pretty much lost everyone. So there is light at the end of the tunnel. That was a complete mugging, not a foul. WOW! We'll pass the humble pie to you. We are tired of it now. You won't like it either. Kinda bitter tasting.

[BLACK ATTACK]

LOL! OK thanks.
As soon as we taste it from you guys, trust me, I'll be the first to eat it up, and it won't be with all the whining I'm hearing on hear.

[marler1972]

Yeah the game is over but it is a real travesty of the game. The refs blew that call and you cannot deny that. Both teams played great. Good luck at state.

[Bleed orange]

Send you a pic from Austin
Might wanna reign back the ego a little . If Celina doesn't win SC in anything for the next 20 years Argyle still won't be able to match trophies.

[BLACK ATTACK]

Yeah the game is over but it is a real travesty of the game. The refs blew that call and you cannot deny that. Both teams played great. Good luck at state.

Yeah, probably right. Doesn't change how you feel, doesn't change how I feel. Surely i would feel differently if we were the ones sitting at home, but I think when you look at the season series the correct team is going. It was a game for the ages and all the girls should be commended. I wish we could have had a 3rd overtime. I wasn't ready for it to end. At the end of the day (and I poke at ya'll a lot), I have the utmost respect for Celina, the people of Celina, and all of its athletic programs. Argyle can only hope to maintain a long term reign of supremacy that Celina has set the standard on. I think the rivalry that has been created is awesome.
Still fun to get a rise out of folks like Bled-Out Orange.

[BLACK ATTACK]

Check back when we have even had a school 1/2 as long as Celina, big boy.

[Bleed orange]

Check back when we have even had a school 1/2 as long as Celina, big boy.

Won't matter

[Crow22]

Won't matter

I have absolutely zero ties to Celina nor Argyle. Watching the video is terrible. One of the worst officiating blown calls I've ever seen.

[Matthew328]

Just watched the video..wow thats some pretty bad officiating right there....I thought maybe it was a bang bang play etc..but that wasn't even close....if there was a travel and I admit it was close to being a travel before the foul then the ref who blew the whistle should have called travel..not whistle and raise his arm up like he's calling a foul....Argyle caught a monster break with that call

[Aguilafanatico]

Just watched the video..wow thats some pretty bad officiating right there....I thought maybe it was a bang bang play etc..but that wasn't even close....if there was a travel and I admit it was close to being a travel before the foul then the ref who blew the whistle should have called travel..not whistle and raise his arm up like he's calling a foul....Argyle caught a monster break with that call

Monster Break? Before or after the travel??? Yes it looks like the game ended strangely but not hard to see the travel as she wound up to take the shot. Sounds like Celina is upset that the wrong call wasn't upheld. Clearly a travel before any contact. Travel would have been the right call.....regardless.

[btex]

Not tied to either school, but official never makes travel call. He waves off the shot. I do think the officials will be in hot water on this one. The whistle blew well before the buzzer. I know several coaches at the game all thought it was a foul as did both benches and coaches. No matter where you loyalties are you have to see this is bad for the game. At least if the official had called travel then everyone moves on but to wave off shot and leave left lots of questions.

[coach]

Guys.... it's girls basketball. Who cares?

[Aguilafanatico]

Not tied to either school, but official never makes travel call. He waves off the shot. I do think the officials will be in hot water on this one. The whistle blew well before the buzzer. I know several coaches at the game all thought it was a foul as did both benches and coaches. No matter where you loyalties are you have to see this is bad for the game. At least if the official had called travel then everyone moves on but to wave off shot and leave left lots of questions.

I get it. The officiating left a ton of confusion....obviously. But if I take the official out of play here and look at it for what it is, I see a travel that happens before anything else. Regardless of how it was ultimately called, there was a travel. The result was correct. Had there been a foul called and the travel missed would that have been the better outcome?

[Matthew328]

Monster break considering the official raised his arm with a closed fist which indicates a foul call...(if he's using correct mechanics)

Could a travel have been called? Heck yes but judging from the official that wasn't his first instinct on the call....all around terrible job of officiating you can bet that crew will be in hot water w/their chapter and the UIL

[marler1972]

Monster Break? Before or after the travel??? Yes it looks like the game ended strangely but not hard to see the travel as she wound up to take the shot. Sounds like Celina is upset that the wrong call wasn't upheld. Clearly a travel before any contact. Travel would have been the right call.....regardless.

I dont see the travel she takes one step then a jump shot, as she gets mauled by the girl no way in heavens earth she traveled. Funny how everyone in the arena thought it was a foul including all the Argyle fans. I cant wait to see what Dale Hansen Channel 8 says tonight as he is going to a report on this.

[slingshot]

Guys.... it's girls basketball. Who cares?Evidently a lot of people... was a terrible call--Celina got cheated on this one.

[marler1972]

I get it. The officiating left a ton of confusion....obviously. But if I take the official out of play here and look at it for what it is, I see a travel that happens before anything else. Regardless of how it was ultimately called, there was a travel. The result was correct. Had there been a foul called and the travel missed would that have been the better outcome?

Nope then the Argyle fans would be up in arms like we are.

[Bleed orange]

From all reports this wasn't the only bad call. Reporters were commenting how the officiating was questionable at best THROUGHOUT the game

[BLACK ATTACK]

There can be 5 more threads started on this topic, but it doesn't change a thing. I'm sure in all of Celina's illustrious holy grail history, they have never been on the other side of this, and when they were it was just fine. But Dale Hansen said.......who cares!
If you want to be very technical about it, the girl did travel before the shot, so the shot should have never happened. I was sitting right in front of it. But, Bled-Out Orange, i'm certain you know for sure since you weren't even there. But Dale Hansen said.....

[marler1972]

There can be 5 more threads started on this topic, but it doesn't change a thing. I'm sure in all of Celina's illustrious holy grail history, they have never been on the other side of this, and when they were it was just fine. But Dale Hansen said.......who cares!
If you want to be very technical about it, the girl did travel before the shot, so the shot should have never happened. I was sitting right in front of it. But, Bled-Out Orange, i'm certain you know for sure since you weren't even there. But Dale Hansen said.....

just keep using your red and black rose colored glasses.:lies:

[Bleed orange]

There can be 5 more threads started on this topic, but it doesn't change a thing. I'm sure in all of Celina's illustrious holy grail history, they have never been on the other side of this, and when they were it was just fine. But Dale Hansen said.......who cares!
If you want to be very technical about it, the girl did travel before the shot, so the shot should have never happened. I was sitting right in front of it. But, Bled-Out Orange, i'm certain you know for sure since you weren't even there. But Dale Hansen said.....

Apparently you need your eyes checked as much as the refs. Technically Argyle could've been called for a foul even before she takes the shot , which makes it look like she travels . Worst case she should've been shooting one and one. And again your opinion doesn't mean squat. What's the consensus from the viewers with no ties??

[regaleagle]

Boy, if Argyle goes to the State Tourney and wins it all....does that mean that Celina and the rest of the finalists got screwed???

[BLACK ATTACK]

just keep using your red and black rose colored glasses.:lies:

I'm pretty sure that mine are the same brand as your orange ones

[BLACK ATTACK]

Apparently you need your eyes checked as much as the refs. Technically Argyle could've been called for a foul even before she takes the shot , which makes it look like she travels . Worst case she should've been shooting one and one. And again your opinion doesn't mean squat. What's the consensus from the viewers with no ties??

Unfortunately for you, my opinion means exactly the same as yours

[regaleagle]

Maybe we should start a new thread titled "Predestination.....what do you believe", lol.

[marler1972]

I think this just cranks up the rivalry, next year week 3 may be a little more tense since there is not much love between the two schools and fans.

[Bleed orange]

Boy, if Argyle goes to the State Tourney and wins it all....does that mean that Celina and the rest of the finalists got screwed???

So you think that a game of this magnitude that's already gone to 2 OT should be decided by what's an obvious missed call??

[BLACK ATTACK]

So you think that a game of this magnitude that's already gone to 2 OT should be decided by what's an obvious missed call??

What does Dale Hansen think?

[BLACK ATTACK]

I think this just cranks up the rivalry, next year week 3 may be a little more tense since there is not much love between the two schools and fans.

I think Argyle and Celina have built a great rivalry, and personally I was glad realignment didn't end it for a while. The week leading up to our football game is very intense around our place. I'm sure yours as well. It's a lot of fun for everyone. Except for maybe Bled-Out Orange & Dale.

[regaleagle]

I'm certain there are games every year in the playoffs that take on a similar significance with calls like this one.....nothing is new under the sun.

[marler1972]

I think Argyle and Celina have built a great rivalry, and personally I was glad realignment didn't end it for a while. The week leading up to our football game is very intense around our place. I'm sure yours as well. It's a lot of fun for everyone. Except for maybe Bled-Out Orange & Dale.

Dale thinks the same as everyone except the argyle faithful.

[Bug Truck]

Possible travel due to being fouled refs made bad call. Good luck a state you will need it to get by Lavega or Wylie

[Bleed orange]

Dale thinks the same as everyone except the argyle faithful.

If you look at twitter Ben_Baby who was reporting for Denton paper ( should be Partial to Argyle) he commented several times during game that officiating was bad towards Celina throughout. He even comments that he was sitting next to an official evaluator who told him he already had 2 pages of notes prior to this call.

[Bleed orange]

This sounds like sour grapes from Celina fans I know but to say that Argyle deserves to go to state is questionable at best. Just a shame it ended the way it did.

[regaleagle]

Life is full of disappointments, and your comment of what the Argyle girls "deserve" is neither tasteful or classy....especially after being the "Whataburger play of the Week".

[Bleed orange]

Life is full of disappointments, and your comment of what the Argyle girls "deserve" is neither tasteful or classy.

And the Celina girls deserved to have their season end because of a missed call ?? There's that Argyle entitlement again.

[regaleagle]

Celina is fully entitled to exert their influence upon whomever they wish.....it was not Argyle's position to rule on what the decision was. This has nothing to do with ANY of the girls on the court or the fans of either school in the final analysis. Argyle was determined the winner of the game by the officials. Please point your finger in the proper direction.

[Bleed orange]

Celina is fully entitled to exert their influence upon whomever they wish.....it was not Argyle's position to rule on what the decision was. This has nothing to do with ANY of the girls on the court or the fans of either school in the final analysis. Argyle was determined the winner of the game by the officials. Please point your finger in the proper direction.
Argyle was " fortunate" to be moving on. I will leave it at that.

[firstdown]

I wasn't at the game and didn't see it live, but from the video I see two things one she traveled and two she was fouled. I am old round ball official and it looks to me like the ref raised an open hand when he blew his whistle. Open hand means a violation not a foul. Whether or it was a foul before the travel is a good question. Give the ref a break he doesn't get the opportunity to review his call via video. Tough loss for Celina girls, either way a damn fine team was going home a loser.

[jason]

Shouldn't miss free throws.
Classy of celina fans to boo argyle at the trophy presentation.

When a team beats another team 3 times, it appears the better team is moving on.

Argyle head coach has now gone to state with copperas cove, brock, and argyle - pretty impressive.

[refereedoc]

I have been officiating basketball for 37 years and am embarrassed by the lack of fortitude these guys showed. Even if traveling was called (which I don't see), there should have been time put back on the clock with Argyle throwing it in. Stranger things have happened on throw ins, so this was a double screw up.

[Bleed orange]

I wasn't at the game and didn't see it live, but from the video I see two things one she traveled and two she was fouled. I am old round ball official and it looks to me like the ref raised an open hand when he blew his whistle. Open hand means a violation not a foul. Whether or it was a foul before the travel is a good question. Give the ref a break he doesn't get the opportunity to review his call via video. Tough loss for Celina girls, either way a damn fine team was going home a loser.

Im sure your evaluation is unbiased ... Lol

[Bleed orange]

I have been officiating basketball for 37 years and am embarrassed by the lack of fortitude these guys showed. Even if traveling was called (which I don't see), there should have been time put back on the clock with Argyle throwing it in. Stranger things have happened on throw ins, so this was a double screw up.

Thank you sir

[Aguilafanatico]

And the Celina girls deserved to have their season end because of a missed call ?? There's that Argyle entitlement again.

Entitlement? Maybe if this was the first time the Argyle girls beat the Celina girls this year. They had to beat them 3 times. Come on Man. How many times should you have to beat a team before you can move on. You had 3 chances!!! Controversial call at the end of the last chance but 3Chances nevertheless. Best team is moving on. Sorry.

[Bleed orange]

Entitlement? Maybe if this was the first time the Argyle girls beat the Celina girls this year. They had to beat them 3 times. Come on Man. How many times should you have to beat a team before you can move on. You had 3 chances!!! Controversial call at the end of the last chance but 3Chances nevertheless. Best team is moving on. Sorry.

It's not as though either district game was a blowout.. 5 Pts and ??. Either way those games were irrelevant and if Im not mistaken Celina led for the majority if the game so it could be argued they were the better team that day.. When it mattered

[Celina8]

Was not at the game, do believe the refs should have stayed on the court and gone to both coaches and explained their decision instead of just running off the court. That is the only issue I have. I can tell you one thing, both teams and fans should be very proud of what these two teams have accomplished this year and trust me 10 years from now most these girls will not even think twice about this game as life always produces other joys and challenges. To the Argyle fans good luck at State bring home another championship for our district.

[Aguilafanatico]

It's not as though either district game was a blowout.. 5 Pts and ??. Either way those games were irrelevant and if Im not mistaken Celina led for the majority if the game so it could be argued they were the better team that day.. When it mattered

Whatever. Make a sign and go protest. When it mattered, Argyle made the free throws to go ahead....and beat Celina......again. Great year. Celina girls should be proud of their season and it was definitely a tough way to lose.

[Bleed orange]

Whatever. Make a sign and go protest. When it mattered, Argyle made the free throws to go ahead....and beat Celina......again. Great year. Celina girls should be proud of their season and it was definitely a tough way to lose.

And I'll be honest I think that is what the Celina fans wanted, just the acknowledgement that the ending was very questionable . Im sure if the roles were to be reversed the Argyle fans would be screaming foul( pun intended) just as loudly . Either way good luck to the Argyle girls .

[waterboy]

Basketball is one tough sport to referee. That's for sure. Do I feel a foul should have been called, yes. There was definitely no traveling on the shot. It's unfortunate that it "could've" made a difference in the outcome. I've seen some poor officiating, and before anybody bashes me, I absolutely know it's a tough job that I would never do. There's just too much gray area in basketball, anticipated contact, misjudgment of contact, missed calls on charging, fouls, traveling, double-dribbling, etc. There is no way an official will get the calls right 100% of the time. Unfortunately, sometimes those calls go against you, other times they go for you. It's the nature of the sport, and I'm surprised that officials get as many calls as they do right. A really good basketball official can make the right call 90+% of the time. Sometimes, though, that 10% gray area can cost one team a possible win.

I remember a basketball playoff game in Commerce years ago (I believe it was '91 or '92) in the regional tournament. Gilmer played Clarksville. With about 11 seconds left Gilmer had a one-point lead. A Clarksville player ran headlong down the court, running over a Gilmer player who was clearly in position for the charge, with about 5 seconds left. They called a foul, and the Clarksville player sunk both free throws to take the lead. The bad part is a Gilmer player got the ball at about half-court on the throw-in, dribbled down the court, put up the shot, going around one of their players who was out of position, made the shot, but they waved it off and called a charge when the player flopped, no time left on the clock. Yep, we felt like we got the shaft. Just an empty, pit in the stomach sort of feeling. It happens. Don't have to like it, but it happens. Clarksville went on to lose in the finals by 4 that year. It just boils down to what your team did during the other 47+ minutes, or in the girls' case, the other 31+ minutes (I think they're 8 minute quarters, can't remember).

For what it's worth, I've seen some bad calls in other sports, too. You have to live with the good and the bad, however.

[Bullaholic]

Never any winners in controversial game endings. Tough on both winners and losers.

[bobcat1]

This really should never be about Celina or Argyle, their fans, and certainly not the girls. It's not about whether they called a foul or didn't. It's not about traveling or not. It's about the whistle being blown before time expired and the idiots leaving the court. It's about the lack of respect shown by these officials. No explanation was given and to this day none has been offered to my knowledge. I hate it for the Celina girls but I would have hated that just as bad for Argyle girls too had that of happened to them. But then I have always been a fair and square kinda guy and life isn't fair and square at all.

Thes nimwits that were reffing this game probably had other plans that didn't include overtime periods and just wanted out of there.

[waterboy]

This really should never be about Celina or Argyle, their fans, and certainly not the girls. It's not about whether they called a foul or didn't. It's not about traveling or not. It's about the whistle being blown before time expired and the idiots leaving the court. It's about the lack of respect shown by these officials. No explanation was given and to this day none has been offered to my knowledge. I hate it for the Celina girls but I would have hated that just as bad for Argyle girls too had that of happened to them. But then I have always been a fair and square kinda guy and life isn't fair and square at all.

Thes nimwits that were reffing this game probably had other plans that didn't include overtime periods and just wanted out of there.

I saw that. They definitely should've manned up, stayed there and given an explanation. You could tell that the Argyle players were just as surprised as the Celina players on that particular play. You could see the "Oh, no!" expressions on the faces of the Argyle players when the whistle was blown before the buzzer. They knew there was a foul call. At least when we lost in the regional tournament, the officials didn't just run off the court without an explanation. They took an earful for making a bad call, but that's the nature of the game. Too much gray area in basketball. I see bad calls on a regular basis in basketball, even in the pros.

[GrTigers6]

This really should never be about Celina or Argyle, their fans, and certainly not the girls. It's not about whether they called a foul or didn't. It's not about traveling or not. It's about the whistle being blown before time expired and the idiots leaving the court. It's about the lack of respect shown by these officials. No explanation was given and to this day none has been offered to my knowledge. I hate it for the Celina girls but I would have hated that just as bad for Argyle girls too had that of happened to them. But then I have always been a fair and square kinda guy and life isn't fair and square at all.

Thes nimwits that were reffing this game probably had other plans that didn't include overtime periods and just wanted out of there.You may be right with that last sentence. However as an official most of us live for those moments. Now I cant speak for everyone obviously but most want games like that. That's what drives us and keeps the game interesting. No one wants a 60-30 blowout. Our crew last year had a double OT game in football and its a memory I will never forget. It makes me look forward to other game moments like that. Now I have never or don't believe I will ever call basketball for reasons like what happened there but in that instance if the whistle was blown before the clock expired no matter how bad you want to leave. You have to continue. Its that simple. That should be officiating 101

[waterboy]

You may be right with that last sentence. However as an official most of us live for those moments. Now I cant speak for everyone obviously but most want games like that. That's what drives us and keeps the game interesting. No one wants a 60-30 blowout. Our crew last year had a double OT game in football and its a memory I will never forget. It makes me look forward to other game moments like that. Now I have never or don't believe I will ever call basketball for reasons like what happened there but in that instance if the whistle was blown before the clock expired no matter how bad you want to leave. You have to continue. Its that simple. That should be officiating 101

Agreed. That crew should be officially reprimanded for leaving the court like that without an explanation of some sort. The whistle was clearly blown before the clock expired. If the whistle is blown, the clock should have been stopped immediately. It shows slow reaction time by the clock keeper. It may have been a different story if the clock would've stopped when the whistle blew. The refs would've been forced to make whatever call needed to be made.

[bobcat1]

Then again maybe the timekeeper was ready for it to be over. Who knows? Probably never will. Again hard pill for Celina and good fortune to Argyle. Win some lose some. Best thing said is not to EVER leave it in the hands of the refs.

[CelinaCatFan]

As I said before, there certainly was a foul, but the girl traveled before the foul. He called that. Game over. 3 games, same result. You should be used to it by now.


Used to what? 8 championships in football to 1? Yeah...we're used to it.

[CelinaCatFan]

only entitlement I have is going to state because we beat ya'll 3 times, count them. Got nothing to do because of where I reside. once could be a fluke, possibly twice but not likely, 3 times is just the reality of the situation. The sooner you deal with it, the better you will feel. Now run along and watch your you tube video. As far as your opinion, it has no bearing on anything, just like mine.

But just so you feel better. You guys have a real good track team and you have a shot at taking us down in football since we pretty much lost everyone. So there is light at the end of the tunnel.


nope

[Scoop27]

UIL officials should review the ending and overturn the decision. There was not loser in this game

[Bleed orange]

Don't know this for a fact but just read on another site that the UIL addressed it today by saying .. " it was a judgement call". That's it, nothing more . What was a judgement call?? There was no call!! If true typical UIL BS!!

[Roughneck93]

Don't know this for a fact but just read on another site that the UIL addressed it today by saying .. " it was a judgement call". That's it, nothing more . What was a judgement call?? There was no call!! If true typical UIL BS!!

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/high-schools/girls-basketball-news/headlines/20140224-uil-rules-final-call-in-celina-argyle-game-not-subject-to-protest.ece

[Bleed orange]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/high-schools/girls-basketball-news/headlines/20140224-uil-rules-final-call-in-celina-argyle-game-not-subject-to-protest.ece

Yeah just read all that... Unfreaking real!!

[jason]

Used to what? 8 championships in football to 1? Yeah...we're used to it.
Those types of comments are the reason people smiled when they saw Celina got screwed.

[bobcat1]

Those types of comments are the reason people smiled when they saw Celina got screwed.

We used to say and feel that way about Forney.... oh wait....

[Bleed orange]

Those types of comments are the reason people smiled when they saw Celina got screwed.
As the kids today say.. You salty boy... In other words those that don't win in ANYTHING are usually bitter toward those that do.

[regaleagle]

I'm a believer that things have a way of coming full circle.

[Bleed orange]

I'm a believer that things have a way of coming full circle.

Meaning what?? Celina girls got what they deserved??

[Bleed orange]

I'm a believer that things have a way of coming full circle.


It's over and nothing can be done now but take some time and check all the social media and read the comments from the other BB officials, coaches , etc. The ONLY people that don't think Celina got screwed are the Argyle fans...And the Cowards at the UIL

[regaleagle]

For those of you that know my postings, I believe that Bleed Orange is really hurting and definitely took my post absolutely in reverse to the way in which it was intended. I feel very badly for Celina and all they have been through all year. First, it was a tough ordeal in football, and now this in girls basketball. All things have a way of working themselves out for the better....sooner or later....if you are doing things in a positive way. That's what I meant. My heart is big....not small. To feel empathy for your neighbor and your fellow competitor in such an occurrence is righteous. It could happen to your team just as well. It has nothing to do with Argyle or Argyle fans. For the most part, the fans and schools of both Argyle and Celina are top notch in most all endeavors and should be commended. They are both striving to be the best in all they do, and usually the kids do very well. I'm proud to say they are in our district and just happen to be our very best rival.

[Bleed orange]

For those of you that know my postings, I believe that Bleed Orange is really hurting and definitely took my post absolutely in reverse to the way in which it was intended. I feel very badly for Celina and all they have been through all year. First, it was a tough ordeal in football, and now this in girls basketball. All things have a way of working themselves out for the better....sooner or later....if you are doing things in a positive way. That's what I meant. My heart is big....not small. To feel empathy for your neighbor and your fellow competitor in such an occurrence is righteous. It could happen to your team just as well. It has nothing to do with Argyle or Argyle fans. For the most part, the fans and schools of both Argyle and Celina are top notch in most all endeavors and should be commended. They are both striving to be the best in all they do, and usually the kids do very well. I'm proud to say they are in our district and just happen to be our very best rival.

To be honest with you my kids are in elementary school so in reality this outcomes has no true effect on me. My issue is the fact that there was an obvious screw up one way or the other and now the UIL is saying that there will be no action taken towards the officials . What kind of example does that set? I realize we all are human and to err is human nature but when you know you screwed up have the intestinal fortitude to man up to it. I believe the girls on both teams deserve that. While the Celina girls are obviously stunned I would think that all the distraction that this has caused has also taken away from what the Argyle girls have achieved .

[regaleagle]

To be honest with you my kids are in elementary school so in reality this outcomes has no true effect on me. My issue is the fact that there was an obvious screw up one way or the other and now the UIL is saying that there will be no action taken towards the officials . What kind of example does that set? I realize we all are human and to err is human nature but when you know you screwed up have the intestinal fortitude to man up to it. I believe the girls on both teams deserve that. While the Celina girls are obviously stunned I would think that all the distraction that this has caused has also taken away from what the Argyle girls have achieved .

Indeed it has, Bleed Orange. It is a most unfortunate situation for both schools, and was totally mishandled by a group that is trained to know better. Now what we have is mixed feelings from both teams, and one is headed to the State Tourney with this kind of monkey riding on their shoulders....almost a handicap, if you will. I just hope the Argyle girls can rise above these circumstances and represent our regional final in a quality way at State. At this point, that would be actually be a compliment to the Celina girls and the season they had, imho.

[Tom Foolery]

I dont understand why the Celina fans want to take it out on Argyle. The last time i looked, the refs had on different uniforms than Argyle. It is unfortunate that it came down to this but if you file a complaint about this call, are you going back and reviewing every call in the game? I guarantee there were fouls calls missed earlier in the game that would have resulted in free throws for both teams. Every coach has said,"don't leave it in the hands of the referees or umpires."

[cougartino]

I saw the video. They could have called travelling. They could have called a foul. I think this was a case of the refs wanting the players to decide the outcome.

[orange machine]

I dont understand why the Celina fans want to take it out on Argyle. The last time i looked, the refs had on different uniforms than Argyle. It is unfortunate that it came down to this but if you file a complaint about this call, are you going back and reviewing every call in the game? I guarantee there were fouls calls missed earlier in the game that would have resulted in free throws for both teams. Every coach has said,"don't leave it in the hands of the referees or umpires."

I think we can all agree that the no call was crap and should have been called a foul. As far as Celina fans being upset with Argyle there appears to be two reason. 1. Some of the Argyle fans here not regal are being turd heads and acting like they wouldn't be upset if the rolls were reversed. 2. A lot of Celina fans feel Argyle has stolen Celina's thunder because Argyle has had a lot more success the last few years in all sports that Celina has. Both of these things are a bad mix.

[Emerson1]

I think we can all agree that the no call was crap and should have been called a foul. As far as Celina fans being upset with Argyle there appears to be two reason. 1. Some of the Argyle fans here not regal are being turd heads and acting like they wouldn't be upset if the rolls were reversed. 2. A lot of Celina fans feel Argyle has stolen Celina's thunder because Argyle has had a lot more success the last few years in all sports that Celina has. Both of these things are a bad mix.

No. We can't. We can all agree it should have either been traveling or a foul.

[waterboy]

No. We can't. We can all agree it should have either been traveling or a foul.

I talked to a couple of ref friends who viewed the video several times. Both said it was not a travel. It was a legal jump stop. They said that it "looked" like the ref closest to the play made the motion that it was a foul from what they could tell, and that's what "should" have been called. It was clearly a call before the buzzer that should've stopped the clock. No matter what the call "would've" been, there would've been about 1.2 seconds on the clock, with either the girl taking 3 free throws, or Argyle throwing the ball in if it were judged a travel. They also said that the way the refs ran off the floor without an explanation was inexcusable, and is not what they are taught to do. Unfortunate as it is, nothing will change it. You've got to feel for all the girls involved, even for the winners.

[D'Highlander]

Shouldn't some of the blame be put on the clock keeper who should have stopped it at the sound of the whistle?

[waterboy]

Shouldn't some of the blame be put on the clock keeper who should have stopped it at the sound of the whistle?

In my opinion, yes. The clocked should have been stopped when that ref blew his whistle. That would've forced him to make a call one way or the other.

[bobcat1]

Shouldn't some of the blame be put on the clock keeper who should have stopped it at the sound of the whistle?


I talked to a couple of ref friends who viewed the video several times. Both said it was not a travel. It was a legal jump stop. They said that it "looked" like the ref closest to the play made the motion that it was a foul from what they could tell, and that's what "should" have been called. It was clearly a call before the buzzer that should've stopped the clock. No matter what the call "would've" been, there would've been about 1.2 seconds on the clock, with either the girl taking 3 free throws, or Argyle throwing the ball in if it were judged a travel. They also said that the way the refs ran off the floor without an explanation was inexcusable, and is not what they are taught to do. Unfortunate as it is, nothing will change it. You've got to feel for all the girls involved, even for the winners.


In my opinion, yes. The clocked should have been stopped when that ref blew his whistle. That would've forced him to make a call one way or the other.
I agree 100% with all of this. Again no fault to the Argyle girls, their coach, or fans. They did nothing wrong here. They were on the fortunate end of this and Celina and its gilds, fans and coaches were not. Life isn't always fair but sometimes you get a lucky break and sometimes you get an unlucky one.

[Bleed orange]

No. We can't. We can all agree it should have either been traveling or a foul.
Every ref in all the sports forums have said it WAS NOT a travel. Even the uIL said yesterday in their statement that it was a " judgement call" that time had expired before the FOUL CALL.

[Emerson1]

Every ref in all the sports forums have said it WAS NOT a travel. Even the uIL said yesterday in their statement that it was a " judgement call" that time had expired before the FOUL CALL.

I guess I missed the memo where taking three steps was no longer a travel. Maybe I am mistaken, but I always thought when you do a jump stop both feet have to land at the same time.

Now you are making stuff up.


The call made by the officials at the end of the Argyle vs. Celina girls basketball 3A regional championship final was a judgment call. According to section 1204 (q) of the UIL Constitution and Contest Rules, a protest based on a game or contest official’s decision will not be considered.

Once the game is over UIL rules do not allow any type of protest based on an officials judgment or decision.

http://highschoolsportsblog.dallasnews.com/2014/02/uil-releases-statement-on-controversial-argyle-celina-conclusion.html/

Where do they say "FOUL CALL"? Unless they put out a new statement this one completely avoids what the call might have even been.

http://imageshack.com/a/img824/1229/883n.png

I really am curious as to how it's not a travel. At this moment the ball has been gathered. The next motion is the left foot planting, then the player elevates. After that the left foot lands again and then the right foot. Then a jump shot. If it wasn't an awkward looking double step with the left foot and the player went left right left you would be able to more clearly see it's three steps that is taken.

[Scoop27]

Wonder if the clock keeper as well as scorebook keeper are from high school where game is played?

[Bleed orange]

I guess I missed the memo where taking three steps was no longer a travel. Maybe I am mistaken, but I always thought when you do a jump stop both feet have to land at the same time.

Now you are making stuff up.



Where do they say "FOUL CALL"? Unless they put out a new statement this one completely avoids what the call might have even been.

http://imageshack.com/a/img824/1229/883n.png

I really am curious as to how it's not a travel. At this moment the ball has been gathered. The next motion is the left foot planting, then the player elevates. After that the left foot lands again and then the right foot. Then a jump shot. If it wasn't an awkward looking double step with the left foot and the player went left right left you would be able to more clearly see it's three steps that is taken.

Okay let's say your scenario that it was a travel even though EVERY official that has commented said it wasn't . If that's the case it should've been Argyle's ball to inbound right?? Or are you gonna tell me you can't hear the whistle seconds before the light goes off on the backboard ?

To answer your question about the foul call. It doesn't say that in their PRESS RELEASE but on the news cast( Joe Trahan/Dale Hansen) that is the explanation they say they were given .

[Emerson1]

Okay let's say your scenario that it was a travel even though EVERY official that has commented said it wasn't . If that's the case it should've been Argyle's ball to inbound right?? Or are you gonna tell me you can't hear the whistle seconds before the light goes off on the backboard ?


No. We can't. We can all agree it should have either been traveling or a foul.

I also said in the other thread


Could have called traveling. Just as easily could have missed that and called a foul. The only real weird thing is the timing and how they just ran off the court without really calling anything.

So lets come up with a scenario where you stop making stuff up.

[Bleed orange]

I also said in the other thread


So lets come up with a scenario where you stop making stuff up.
See above. Let me ask you another question. Since your watching the video look at the reaction from the Argyle girls .. Does it look like they thought it was a travel?

[refereedoc]

No, they will use table crews from the host sites. Those guys at Commerce usually do a good job in college games. They are retired officials that have been working the table for years.

[Bleed orange]

No, they will use table crews from the host sites. Those guys at Commerce usually do a good job in college games. They are retired officials that have been working the table for years.

You can't see it on these videos but if you watch the news story on TV that shows the whole video of the events as they occurred and the moments after it shows the guys at the scorers table looking confused like they don't know what just happened.

[Bleed orange]

No, they will use table crews from the host sites. Those guys at Commerce usually do a good job in college games. They are retired officials that have been working the table for years.

How many years did you say you officiated BB? Travel or no travel??

[Scoop27]

I've seem at some 2A schools where the game site is in charge running the clock and keeping the book. Each playoff game is different and it depends how the teams decide

[Roughneck93]

I see the story has made it's way over to Deadspin....

http://deadspin.com/high-school-basketball-playoff-game-ends-in-stupid-rid-1530852596


http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/19gt5qbo1ik5sgif/ku-xlarge.gif

[bobcat1]

Gettin' out of Dodge quick. Is that Black Attack throwing both arms in the air?

[Bleed orange]

Gettin' out of Dodge quick. Is that Black Attack throwing both arms in the air?
" hey guys if we hurry we can still make our dinner reservation"

[BLACK ATTACK]

Gettin' out of Dodge quick. Is that Black Attack throwing both arms in the air?

Nope....I'd be the one pointing towards Austin

[panfan]

This whole thing made the DEADSPIN website

[Roughneck93]

Joe Trahan
@Joe Trahan
UIL official says head ref in controversial Celina-Argyle bball game has self-imposed a 2 week suspension starting next season. @wfaasports
3:51pm - 26 Feb 14


Joe Trahan
@Joe Trahan
Celina officials ask UIL to explore fesibility of limited instant replay in regional final games next season. @wfaasports @uiltexas
3:52pm - 26 Feb 14

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTrahan

[bobcat1]

Joe Trahan
@Joe Trahan
UIL official says head ref in controversial Celina-Argyle bball game has self-imposed a 2 week suspension starting next season. @wfaasports
3:51pm - 26 Feb 14


https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeTrahan
Isn't that just swell.:rolleyes:

[Bleed orange]

Isn't that just swell.:rolleyes:

1 game for missing an obvious call and 1 game for being a b**** and running off the court . Seems fair.. Lol

[bobcat1]

1 game for missing an obvious call and 1 game for being a b**** and running off the court . Seems fair.. Lol
He should never be allowed to ref another game other than pickup games and only if he lets someone hold his keys to his car.

[Emerson1]

See above. Let me ask you another question. Since your watching the video look at the reaction from the Argyle girls .. Does it look like they thought it was a travel?

What am I looking for above? You already made up enough stuff up there. I never said it was an easy call to make. Cool story though.

[Bleed orange]

What am I looking for above? You already made up enough stuff up there. I never said it was an easy call to make. Cool story though.

Read the new realease on the other topic*******. Who's making up stuff ? Maybe you who claims you can see a girls feet land a millimeter apart on a jump stop??

[Emerson1]

http://imageshack.com/a/img513/8734/tful.png

That's a pretty big millimeter. Cool story, bro.

[Bleed orange]

http://imageshack.com/a/img513/8734/tful.png

That's a pretty big millimeter. Cool story, bro.
THE ref has spoken .. Foul call. END OF STORY

[Emerson1]

THE ref has spoken .. Foul call. END OF STORY

See above.

[Bleed orange]

See above.
This has been in every sports media possible . MANY refs have commented on the situation . I challenge you to show me one that says it was a travel.

[firstdown]

This has been in every sports media possible . MANY refs have commented on the situation . I challenge you to show me one that says it was a travel.

I think the whole thing was botched up. Handled entirely wrong. I feel for the Celina girls and I hate that their season ended that way. I was an official for 15 years and at first glance I didn't think it was a jump stop. What I can't tell for sure is whether or not she was fouled causing the would be travel.

[Bleed orange]

I think the whole thing was botched up. Handled entirely wrong. I feel for the Celina girls and I hate that their season ended that way. I was an official for 15 years and at first glance I didn't think it was a jump stop. What I can't tell for sure is whether or not she was fouled causing the would be travel.

That's my point .. At game speed its highly unlikely that traveling gets called because ITS NOT clear. However the foul IS clear.

[Emerson1]

So you are agreeing with what I've said all along... You have gone from 150 refs on the Internet forums saying no traveling to it would have been hard to see at full speed.

Cool twist to the story, bro.

[PhiI C]

That was a complete mugging, not a foul. WOW! We'll pass the humble pie to you. We are tired of it now. You won't like it either. Kinda bitter tasting.

bobcat1 what was the girl's (the one who was fouled) percentage free throw percentage?

[Bleed orange]

So you are agreeing with what I've said all along... You have gone from 150 refs on the Internet forums saying no traveling to it would have been hard to see at full speed.

Cool twist to the story, bro.
Let me restate.. Bro . Find a ref WHO DOESN'T HAVE AN ARGYLE PIC on their response who has said it was a travel. I don't know why you're still trying to argue travel. THE LEAD OFFICIAL WHO BLEW THE WHISTLE said he had a foul call . End of story

[Emerson1]

Let me restate.. Bro . Find a ref WHO DOESN'T HAVE AN ARGYLE PIC on their response who has said it was a travel. I don't know why you're still trying to argue travel. THE LEAD OFFICIAL WHO BLEW THE WHISTLE said he had a foul call . End of story
So now only certain refs' opinions matter... Convenient. You are the one who has loads of refs all over the internet saying that it was 100% not a travel. I've already provided evidence that it was.

You are adding pages to the chapters you have already made up. I never said that it couldn't have been a foul. Why do you keep repeating that to make it sound like I didn't think there could have been a foul called? You just agreed with me that a travel occurred, but it was to quick to notice in real time.

[Bleed orange]

So now only certain refs' opinions matter... Convenient. You are the one who has loads of refs all over the internet saying that it was 100% not a travel. I've already provided evidence that it was.

You are adding pages to the chapters you have already made up. I never said that it couldn't have been a foul. Why do you keep repeating that to make it sound like I didn't think there could have been a foul called? You just agreed with me that a travel occurred, but it was to quick to notice in real time.
What do think a person from Argyle is going to say?? Whistle blew for a FOUL. You can keep trying to argue if you want but we know what the call was now. End of story

[Emerson1]

What do think a person from Argyle is going to say?? Whistle blew for a FOUL. You can keep trying to argue if you want but we know what the call was now. End of story

No one ever argued that he blew the whistle for a travel and not a foul. Chapter 7. It could have been, because it was...

[Tom Foolery]

Who talked the lead official out of the foul call? Was it in his primary? Why is "Bleed orange" always trying to draw Argyle into his argument? Argyle may have benefitted from the play but they did not make the call. Anyway, Argyle won their semifinal game so Bleed orange can take comfort in knowing his team my be the 3rd best team in the state.

[Bleed orange]

Who talked the lead official out of the foul call? Was it in his primary? Why is "Bleed orange" always trying to draw Argyle into his argument? Argyle may have benefitted from the play but they did not make the call. Anyway, Argyle won their semifinal game so Bleed orange can take comfort in knowing his team my be the 3rd best team in the state.
The only reference to Argyle is because they along with Emerson are the only ones that believe there was a travel. If Argyle wins I guess it could be argued that Celina could possibly have been the best team.. Lol

[Tom Foolery]

I would still like to know why the lead official did not stick with his call? Who did he admit to that he called a foul?

[Bleed orange]

I would still like to know why the lead official did not stick with his call? Who did he admit to that he called a foul?

Read the other thread. UIL director told Celina coach that is what he was told by THE LEAD REF WHO BLEW THE WHISTLE

[BLACK ATTACK]

The only reference to Argyle is because they along with Emerson are the only ones that believe there was a travel. If Argyle wins I guess it could be argued that Celina could possibly have been the best team.. Lol

There is no doubt that Celina is not the best team. The season series proved that. What is clear is that you need some kind of life. Move on, right, wrong, or indifferent, it is over. Find another cause to consume your life.

[bobcat1]

bobcat1 what was the girl's (the one who was fouled) percentage free throw percentage?I honestly don't know but I bet it is better than Shaq's.

[bobcat1]

There is no doubt in my mind that Celina is not the best team. There, that'll make it better. Because I have doubts so just plain ol' "No Doubt" don't work for me. :kiss:

[Bleed orange]

There is no doubt that Celina is not the best team. The season series proved that. What is clear is that you need some kind of life. Move on, right, wrong, or indifferent, it is over. Find another cause to consume your life.

Really? If the roles were reversed you know good and well y'all would be screaming just as loudly

[BLACK ATTACK]

There, that'll make it better. Because I have doubts so just plain ol' "No Doubt" don't work for me. :kiss:

Well considering that only Celina and argyle people saw all 3 games, that would mean that there is a difference of opinion between the 2. But irregardless of your opinion or mine, Argyle won all 3 games. Thus the better team. Makes no difference what you think. Facts are facts

[BLACK ATTACK]

Really? If the roles were reversed you know good and well y'all would be screaming just as loudly

Maybe, maybe not. But promise you I would be over it by now. Why not put this much effort into raising money for the homeless? You get your name in the news then

[bobcat1]

Well considering that only Celina and argyle people saw all 3 games, that would mean that there is a difference of opinion between the 2. But irregardless of your opinion or mine, Argyle won all 3 games. Thus the better team. Makes no difference what you think. Facts are facts Question is were they really the better team game 3. But we will really never know. Good luck against LaVega