How many 3a run based offense teams....

[panfan]

Curious as to how the predominantly run based offense teams in 3A are doing at are near the start of district play? Post your current records if your team is a predominantly (i.e., >75%) run based offense - what ever it is called.

[SHSBulldog00]

Sweeny (4-1)

[panfan]

Sweeny (4-1)

thanks - c'mon now lets hear how the predominantly run based offense teams are doing.

[toddg]

Alvarado is 2-3..struggling with the passing game..inexperience in backfield

[whitelightning5]

Bellville 3-2 (0-1). Over 1,400 rushing yards and close to 500 yards passing. Lost district opener to Columbus.

[SHSBulldog00]

Sweeny (4-1)

Offense Rush Pass Total Avg
Sweeny 2104 179 2283 456.6

RUSHING
Fields 106 886 8.35 15 TD's
Simmons 73 669 9.16 8 TD's
Holmes 9 150 (INC)

PASSING
Robertson 7/21 161

Passing game still needs to improve.

[panfan]

Sweeny (4-1)

Offense Rush Pass Total Avg
Sweeny 2104 179 2283 456.6

RUSHING
Fields 85 679 7.99 15 TD's
Simmons 58 529 9.12 8 TD's
Holmes 9 150 (INC)

PASSING
Robertson 7/21 161

Passing game still needs to improve.

Impressive!

[SHSBulldog00]

Impressive!

I corrected the stats.

[SHSBulldog00]

How is LH doing panfan?

[Turin]

I believe Vernon and Monahans are both Slot-t teams. Vernon is 5-0 and Monahans is 3-1 depending on how you count the Kermit game.

[Aggie98]

Kilgore (4-0)

Rushing: 1,303 yds
Passing: 308 yds

Avg Pts scored/game: 46.8
Avg Pts allowed/game: 11.5

[panfan]

How is LH doing panfan?

We are at 4-1, with over 1600 yards rushing according to Maxpreps - and 78 yards passing.

[panfan]

I'm just trying to get a feel from across the state, how predominantly run based teams are fairing - thus far it looks like they are doing pretty durn good!

[SHSBulldog00]

Port Isabel (5-0) runs the Slot T

[hollywood]

Solid run based 3A teams will do well against most 3A teams until they face a solid well balanced team that runs the spread. Kilgore is probably the best run based 3A team in the state IMO.

Argyle, Carthage, Gilmer, Graham, Stephenville will limit run based teams due to their ability drive the field and score quickly. I've seen it time and time again. Once you get a run based team into a position they have to score to keep up or catch up... Ball game over. Gets run based teams out of their strength, and that's the ability to throw the ball.

[waterboy]

We're still working on developing a passing game, and our rushing game still needs work. Good thing we have a decent defense.:D;)

[panfan]

Solid run based 3A teams will do well against most 3A teams until they face a solid well balanced team that runs the spread. Kilgore is probably the best run based 3A team in the state IMO.

Argyle, Carthage, Gilmer, Graham, Stephenville will limit run based teams due to their ability drive the field and score quickly. I've seen it time and time again. Once you get a run based team into a position they have to score to keep up or catch up... Ball game over. Gets run based teams out of their strength, and that's the ability to throw the ball.

I can see this happening - unless you have a solid defense. You don't have to keep up if the opponent is not scoring!

[bag-o-chips]

Navarro 5-0 Slot T

2038 Total yards
1747 Rushing 6.57 yds attempt
291 Passing 13.23 yds
22/34 3tds 0 ints

[panfan]

Navarro 5-0 Slot T

2038 Total yards
1747 Rushing 6.57 yds attempt
291 Passing 13.23 yds
22/34 3tds 0 ints

Impressive numbers Navarro!

[hollywood]

I can see this happening - unless you have a solid defense. You don't have to keep up if the opponent is not scoring!

True... But what if the spread team has a solid defense? It only takes 1-2 stops and the run based team struggles big time. And this usually turns into a 21-35 point swing. Run based team has to throw which leads into more turnovers and points for the other team. Watch Sville vs El Campo game of most recent examples. And this isn't saying that a run based team can't be successful because we know it can. Just not as effect on a consistant basis IMO.

[D'Highlander]

True... But what if the spread team has a solid defense? It only takes 1-2 stops and the run based team struggles big time. And this usually turns into a 21-35 point swing. Run based team has to throw which leads into more turnovers and points for the other team. Watch Sville vs El Campo game of most recent examples. And this isn't saying that a run based team can't be successful because we know it can. Just not as effect on a consistant basis IMO.

I have to agree here... IMO opinion the new question on the block is, how much can you score if you need to?

El Campo had a great game offensively but it wasn't enough.

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Port Isabel does not run the Slot-T. They run out of various sets. Power I, Maryland I, Split backs, Option.

[panfan]

I have to agree here... IMO opinion the new question on the block is, how much can you score if you need to?

El Campo had a great game offensively but it wasn't enough.

I won't disagree that the advantage of a spread offense or other pass dominant type offense is quick strike ability. I asked the question initially to see how teams overall were doing that are primarily run based, not so much which type of offense is better. But to address what Hollywood and highlander bring up as valid points, we should ask this question again at the end of district play, cause as they say, the proof is in the puddin'.

Of course this could also be answered by someone like Matt who has access to lots of info and previous teams records, to do more of a number crunching exercise to see, if on average, those teams that do well (by whatever measuring stick you want) are pass based, balanced, or run based. Would be interesting to see.

[Rattler]

Vernon is 5-0
244 passing yards
1849 rushing yards
30 td's

Graham (5-0)
1349 Passing
1198 Rushing
33 TD
Defense has 12 ints

[regaleagle]

A team that is well-balanced offensively definitely has the advantage in high school ball, imo. Defenses that can read and make adjustments on the fly are just not that prevalent. Teaching young players to use their speed and brain at the same time is always a work in progress. That's why senior-laden teams usually do better....it's not the athletic ability so much as it is the experience level and the understanding. Run-based offenses are easier to defend against for the younger players, without question. It therefore takes a great running offense to succeed today against all the pass-oriented offenses that can use it as a counter of clock control. The best offense is a balanced one....taking pressure off the qb and and line to pick up the blitzes. Keeping a very good defense honest is key to success for an offense. Very good defenses will eat ball control offenses for lunch. And if that very good defensive team happens to have a balanced or passing offense, they win more times than they lose.

[cougartino]

La Marque 2-3. Heck running is about all we do.

[toddg]

I won't disagree that the advantage of a spread offense or other pass dominant type offense is quick strike ability. I asked the question initially to see how teams overall were doing that are primarily run based, not so much which type of offense is better. But to address what Hollywood and highlander bring up as valid points, we should ask this question again at the end of district play, cause as they say, the proof is in the puddin'.

Of course this could also be answered by someone like Matt who has access to lots of info and previous teams records, to do more of a number crunching exercise to see, if on average, those teams that do well (by whatever measuring stick you want) are pass based, balanced, or run based. Would be interesting to see.

in texas high school football..the premier "run" first team Katy, primary offense: power I.. 7 SCs, 6 in the last 15 years, 4 in the last 10 years..including a championship victory over Todd Dodge, Chase Daniel lead SLC team..pretty much broke Cedar Hills spread offense back last year in SC game...undeniable proof that run first offensive football is still relative in todays football...key is having a great defense, and great patience along with great execution for it to be successful consistantly..and have a viable passing game..not fancy, just effective...which is what we lack so far this year.

[D'Highlander]

in texas high school football..the premier "run" first team Katy, primary offense: power I.. 7 SCs, 6 in the last 15 years, 4 in the last 10 years..including a championship victory over Todd Dodge, Chase Daniel lead SLC team..pretty much broke Cedar Hills spread offense back last year in SC game...undeniable proof that run first offensive football is still relative in todays football...key is having a great defense, and great patience along with great execution for it to be successful consistantly..and have a viable passing game..not fancy, just effective...which is what we lack so far this year.

Good point. Personally, I would rather have a team that could just ground pound you and we both know there is nothing you can do to stop it. You just don't see many of those teams making it very far these days compared to spread em out teams.

[LH Panther Mom]

2007 Division I :D

[hollywood]

Interesting to know how the 3A run based teams are doing this season.

To spark another interest on this same subject, how many of the teams that have won at least 4 State Championships were run based? Of course per 1990, most were. The shift to the spread in HS football was in the late 80's when Coach Brile's Stephenville teams started dominating with a balanced complex offensive spread scheme and tough hard hitting defenses.

I posted all classes below that have won at least 4.


Texas HS Most State Championships

8 Championships
Celina - 1974 (co-champ), 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007

7 Championships
Abilene - 1923, 1928, 1931, 1954, 1955, 1956, 2009
Brownwood - 1960, 1965, 1967, 1969, 1970, 1978, 1981
Katy - 1959, 1997, 2000, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2012
Plano - 1965, 1967, 1971, 1977, 1986, 1987, 1994
Southlake Carroll - 1988, 1992, 1993, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006

6 Championships
Daingerfield - 1968, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2009, 2010
Breckenridge - 1929 (co champ), 1951, 1952, 1954, 1958, 1959
Converse Judson - 1983, 1988 (by forfeit), 1992, 1993, 1995, 2002
Odessa Permian - 1965, 1972, 1980, 1984 (co champ), 1989, 1991
Waco - 1925, 1926, 1927, 1945 (co champ), 1948
Wichita Falls - 1949, 1950, 1958, 1961, 1969

5 Championships
Mart - 1957, 1969, 1999, 2006, 2010
Fort Hancock - 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991
La Marque - 1995, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2006
Sealy - 1978, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Sonora - 1966, 1968, 1970, 1971, 2000
Stephenville - 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2012

4 Championships
Amarillo - 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940
Ennis - 1975, 2000, 2001, 2004
Garland - 1956, 1963, 1964, 1999
Goldthwaite - 1985, 1993, 1994, 2009
Lake Travis - 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Stamford - 1955, 1956, 1958, 1959

[Weebe]

I have to agree here... IMO opinion the new question on the block is, how much can you score if you need to?

El Campo had a great game offensively but it wasn't enough.

Absolutely agree. El Campo ran into a team that could exploit its lack of pass defense.

El Campo had a really good offense that could score a lot of points. Just couldn't do it as quickly or as often as Stephenville.

[bigwood33]

I think it is funny when fans of teams that sling it load up to defend their position. that to win big, you have to throw it a bunch. In case you haven't noticed these teams run the rock a lot more than they throw it. Katy...run first. Trinity...run first. Celina...run first. LH...always run. Won a 3A state championship in '07 with 0 passing attempts against a very good Gilmer team. Wimberley...run first. Those Aledo teams from a couple of years ago...run first. And anyone who wants to point to Argyle as a team that slings it around all of the time, they are usually reasonable balanced with a slight leaning to running it more. Their last 2 games, 91 running attempts for 436 yards and 40 passing attempts for 267 yards.
There is no one way to do it. Efficiency is the critical thing. If kids buy in, are disciplined in what they are coached to do and a team is reasonably talented, either philosophy will work well and at a high level.

[Manso/V8]

Solid run based 3A teams will do well against most 3A teams until they face a solid well balanced team that runs the spread. Kilgore is probably the best run based 3A team in the state IMO.

Argyle, Carthage, Gilmer, Graham, Stephenville will limit run based teams due to their ability drive the field and score quickly. I've seen it time and time again. Once you get a run based team into a position they have to score to keep up or catch up... Ball game over. Gets run based teams out of their strength, and that's the ability to throw the ball.

There are exceptions, but I think a run based team that rarely throws, the slot t teams for example, will have problems advancing deep in the playoffs. They are often built for a good or great season, but not built to win the SC.

Please note that I am saying there are exceptions, otherwise, this post will result in an onslaught of posts about the glory days of Liberty Hill. Please, I don't want to hear about Liberty Hill........

It does seem that you have to have the right kind of athletes to run the spread effectively, but any team that makes it deep in the playoffs has probably got the right kind of athletes no matter what kind of offense they run.

It those schools, that switch to the spread to showcase the coach's son QB skills, without the receivers to pull it off that are painful to watch.

[panfan]

There are exceptions, but I think a run based team that rarely throws, the slot t teams for example, will have problems advancing deep in the playoffs. They are often built for a good or great season, but not built to win the SC.

Please note that I am saying there are exceptions, otherwise, this post will result in an onslaught of posts about the glory days of Liberty Hill. Please, I don't want to hear about Liberty Hill........

It does seem that you have to have the right kind of athletes to run the spread effectively, but any team that makes it deep in the playoffs has probably got the right kind of athletes no matter what kind of offense they run.

It those schools, that switch to the spread to showcase the coach's son QB skills, without the receivers to pull it off that are painful to watch.

:blahblah:

No kust kidding - good post as well as all those preceding it. After reading them all, seems to me that its not just the X's and O's (kind of offense), but also the Jimmy's and Joe's (athletes). Gotta have both for a very successful season and it can be done with a run based attack, balanced, or pass based attack as long as the team has the athletes to execute it.

Oh - kinda like LH in 06 and 07 - stephenville in 2012 etc. I couldn't resist Manso!

I think it was hollywood who earlier posted the SC wins for all classifications for teams with 4 or more wins. If you cull that list down to those since say late 1990 or just say 2000 - when the spread became a predominant offense? then you may see something different emerge from the data.

[panfan]

Interesting to know how the 3A run based teams are doing this season.

To spark another interest on this same subject, how many of the teams that have won at least 4 State Championships were run based? Of course per 1990, most were. The shift to the spread in HS football was in the late 80's when Coach Brile's Stephenville teams started dominating with a balanced complex offensive spread scheme and tough hard hitting defenses.

I posted all classes below that have won at least 4.


Texas HS Most State Championships

8 Championships
Celina - 1974 (co-champ), 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2005, 2007

7 Championships
Abilene - 1923, 1928, 1931, 1954, 1955, 1956, 2009
Brownwood - 1960, 1965, 1967, 1969, 1970, 1978, 1981
Katy - 1959, 1997, 2000, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2012
Plano - 1965, 1967, 1971, 1977, 1986, 1987, 1994
Southlake Carroll - 1988, 1992, 1993, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2006

6 Championships
Daingerfield - 1968, 1983, 1985, 2008, 2009, 2010
Breckenridge - 1929 (co champ), 1951, 1952, 1954, 1958, 1959
Converse Judson - 1983, 1988 (by forfeit), 1992, 1993, 1995, 2002
Odessa Permian - 1965, 1972, 1980, 1984 (co champ), 1989, 1991
Waco - 1925, 1926, 1927, 1945 (co champ), 1948
Wichita Falls - 1949, 1950, 1958, 1961, 1969

5 Championships
Mart - 1957, 1969, 1999, 2006, 2010
Fort Hancock - 1986, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991
La Marque - 1995, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2006
Sealy - 1978, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997
Sonora - 1966, 1968, 1970, 1971, 2000
Stephenville - 1993, 1994, 1998, 1999, 2012

4 Championships
Amarillo - 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940
Ennis - 1975, 2000, 2001, 2004
Garland - 1956, 1963, 1964, 1999
Goldthwaite - 1985, 1993, 1994, 2009
Lake Travis - 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010
Stamford - 1955, 1956, 1958, 1959

Holly, seems this should not be limited to who has won x numbers of SCs or more, but how many have been won since say 1990 or 2000 when the offensive schemes became more diverse.

[thatdude]

I believe Vernon and Monahans are both Slot-t teams. Vernon is 5-0 and Monahans is 3-1 depending on how you count the Kermit game.

Vernon is Wing T

[panfan]

Vernon is Wing T

Well its running it well! 5-0.

[hollywood]

Holly, seems this should not be limited to who has won x numbers of SCs or more, but how many have been won since say 1990 or 2000 when the offensive schemes became more diverse.

Yes I agree, just didn't have time to go through and analyze. ;) But I was thinking the same. It would give a better perspective of the success, in terms of SC's, of teams running certain schemes offensively.

[hollywood]

Well its running it well! 5-0. Let's see how well they run it against Graham in a few weeks. Their fellow district brethrens.

[texas_wildcat]

Kennedale 5 games 1515 rushing 20 td rush 62 yards passing

[thatdude]

Let's see how well they run it against Graham in a few weeks. Their fellow district brethrens.

Thats gonna be a fun one to watch. It will be Graham's toughest test, and clearly Vernon's toughest for sure.