Do you see "unsportsmanlike conduct" here?

[Phantom Stang]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=539272152813286&set=vb.360051957401974&type=2&theater

[Farmersfan]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=539272152813286&set=vb.360051957401974&type=2&theater



I'm not sure why this is even up for discussion. It is showboating without a doubt. It certainly isn't as blatant or over the top as some but it was unsportsmanlike conduct according to the rules as I know them...

[orange machine]

I'm not sure why this is even up for discussion. It is showboating without a doubt. It certainly isn't as blatant or over the top as some but it was unsportsmanlike conduct according to the rules as I know them...

Oh my gosh are you friggin kidding me that was not in any way unsportsmanlike. That is a ridiculous call.

[BEAST]

Oh my gosh are you friggin kidding me that was not in any way unsportsmanlike. That is a ridiculous call.

I agree. Was it a little celebratory? Maybe. Oh well, it wasnt any big deal.




BEAST

[refereedoc]

They can be averted with "preventive officiating" by letting the head coach and player know about and the circumstances the next time it happened. Not all rules need to be enforced by black and white standards lots of gray on interpretations on rules like this. IMO is was minimal anyway, probably an official with little experience or an anal older one.

[jason]

Not nearly as bad as this
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/pa-player-may-face-criminal-charges-ripping-helmet-151701209.html

[waterboy]

I know it's a judgment call, but referees need to be a little more tolerant than that. He barely even made a gesture. It should not have been unsportsmanlike in my opinion, because it was in no way excessive.

[Rabid Cougar]

I know it's a judgment call, but referees need to be a little more tolerant than that. He barely even made a gesture. It should not have been unsportsmanlike in my opinion, because it was in no way excessive.

It is not a new rule. Coaches have had numerous notices sent to them on this and may have gone over and over this in practice. The problem with not calling it is that you will have the opposing coach send in the same film to the Chapter and ask "Why wasn't this called?" and people posting on FB and Downlow asking the same thing. What is the "right time" to call it.

Have any "Targeting" fouls called? Wait until your stud Safety is ejected for lighting someone up coming across the middle. It will happen.

[cougartino]

Oh my gosh are you friggin kidding me that was not in any way unsportsmanlike. That is a ridiculous call.

I agree. Looks like he was just reaching the ball over the goal. Had he turned around and pointed the ball in the other player's face, yes!

[Farmersfan]

The problem with a lot of the comments about this being so minimal that it should not have been called is that you don't realize that the kid started the taunting motion and then realized (too late) that he was going to be called if he did it. Once you allow even this to happen then they will start to push the line on this also. I think every player in high school understands that NO TOLERANCE will be given so any action no matter how trivial is unexcusable. I work in enforcement so I understand the old adage that if you give them an inch they will try to take a mile. I can't stand the shuck and jive or smack talking that goes on in the NFL/college level and don't want to see it in high school................. There is no way to allow judgement on these kinds of calls. I personally would rather the kids not do it than for them to try and see how much they can get away with.....

[ccmom]

The problem with a lot of the comments about this being so minimal that it should not have been called is that you don't realize that the kid started the taunting motion and then realized (too late) that he was going to be called if he did it..

You could tell that from the video posted?? Really??

[BEAST]

You could tell that from the video posted?? Really??

Of course he can. He spends hours going over Romo film. His eyes are trained to spot screw ups




BEAST

[Saggy Aggie]

The problem with a lot of the comments about this being so minimal that it should not have been called is that you don't realize that the kid started the taunting motion and then realized (too late) that he was going to be called if he did it. Once you allow even this to happen then they will start to push the line on this also. I think every player in high school understands that NO TOLERANCE will be given so any action no matter how trivial is unexcusable. I work in enforcement so I understand the old adage that if you give them an inch they will try to take a mile. I can't stand the shuck and jive or smack talking that goes on in the NFL/college level and don't want to see it in high school................. There is no way to allow judgement on these kinds of calls. I personally would rather the kids not do it than for them to try and see how much they can get away with.....

I bet FF is one if those kinda cops that everyone hates...

[cougartino]

Of course he can. He spends hours going over Romo film. His eyes are trained to spot screw ups




BEAST

I'm a Cowboys fan but :fnypost:

[GrTigers6]

The main problem with the move is it is entirely unnecessary. Therefore it leaves it up to debate by the official and the official is being told to call it more often than not. What these kids need to understand is that if they wait until they cross the goal line then those moves wont be as subjective. Technically any move before scoring is in its own way taunting. Obviously some are far more severe but they are all taunting. Personally I don't think I would have flagged it but it all depends on the mood of the game. Was there other incidents going on prior to this one or was this just a spontaneous act of poor judgment?

[Trashman]

Yes, without a doubt. He probably did not intend to draw the penalty:spitlol:

[orange machine]

That's just a ignorant call let the kids have some enjoyment when they do something good!! I get the unsportmanlike calls, but honestly what's worse that kid holding the ball over the goal line or player jumping up chest bumping. I mean give me a break!!!

[LH Panther Mom]

It's a judgment call. The fact that he looked over his shoulder to see how far/close the D was before he "reached" the ball could be what the official used to make the judgment. That, and the fact that he was nowhere near close enough for the "reach" to have put the ball over the goal line when he started.

[regaleagle]

It's clear that these kinds of rules take away from the game. The word "blatant" should be the watchword at the high school level. This is not professional sports, and we do have referees to enforce "blatant showboating"...if that's what you want to call this. Does any of us really know what was going thru this player's mind when he crossed the plane? Did he mean to be showing off, or just showing that he finally scored? And should we denigrate a game of hard-hitting macho action by calling tinkerbell calls after teaching these young men to be aggressive? What kind mixed signals does this send to young people regarding justice and fair play? All things in moderation is a good rule. Taking everything to the extreme is what is wrong with our society and courts now. You see political correctness on the football field in high school now....and that's how twisted things have gotten. And now we sit here and discuss/argue over this nothingness(it was nothingness 10 yrs. ago). Whatever happened to common sense? Whatever happened to those that will stand up for unrighteousness? This is what you get.

[refereedoc]

Farmerfan ,That is why most law enforcement and military people don't make good sport officials. Everything they see is black and white and miss the spirit of the rules. It's about the kids not the strictest enforcement of rules, firm yes but know when to interject wisdom into a situation.

[bobcat1]

Not nearly as bad as this
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/highschool-prep-rally/pa-player-may-face-criminal-charges-ripping-helmet-151701209.htmlThat is almost the Old Lyle Alzado rule.

[GrTigers6]

It's clear that these kinds of rules take away from the game. The word "blatant" should be the watchword at the high school level. This is not professional sports, and we do have referees to enforce "blatant showboating"...if that's what you want to call this. Does any of us really know what was going thru this player's mind when he crossed the plane? Did he mean to be showing off, or just showing that he finally scored? And should we denigrate a game of hard-hitting macho action by calling tinkerbell calls after teaching these young men to be aggressive? What kind mixed signals does this send to young people regarding justice and fair play? All things in moderation is a good rule. Taking everything to the extreme is what is wrong with our society and courts now. You see political correctness on the football field in high school now....and that's how twisted things have gotten. And now we sit here and discuss/argue over this nothingness(it was nothingness 10 yrs. ago). Whatever happened to common sense? Whatever happened to those that will stand up for unrighteousness? This is what you get.So tell me why it should be ok to celebrate before you score? Do you celebrate before you shoot a 3 pointer. Do you celebrate before you hit a home run. Its no difference. The kids just need to wait to celebrate until they have achieved what they are celebrating. It may have been his first TD ever, Although I doubt it, but he still shouldn't celebrate it until he accomplishes it. There is far more leniency after you cross the goal line. Its that simple!

[TheDOCTORdre]

another example of the "wuss"ification of America

[regaleagle]

I don't agree with your "logic" GR Tiger. Football and basketball are different sports that don't have a lot in common...plain and simple. Ditto with baseball.

[83Indian]

There was no taunting at all there. What I have seen that is never called is players who in that situation slow down and almost let the defender catch them. Which is worse?

[GrTigers6]

I don't agree with your "logic" GR Tiger. Football and basketball are different sports that don't have a lot in common...plain and simple. Ditto with baseball.You score in all three sports. That's how they are similar. If you can see that similarity than this conversation is pointless. Its pretty simple logic, wait until you accomplish something before you celebrate. How many times do you see people celebrate early and drop ball or get it knocked out. Its just stupid to celebrate early!

[Deuce]

I don't understand how anyone could call that a celebration.

[Pudlugger]

Showboating or not players need to take heed of the rules and not jeopardize the team. Remember the big kerfuffle in the Regional Track meet with the Columbus relay team anchorman pointing up in the air? Cost them a trip to State. You just have to assume the worst and play accordingly.

[coachc45]

Showboating or not players need to take heed of the rules and not jeopardize the team. Remember the big kerfuffle in the Regional Track meet with the Columbus relay team anchorman pointing up in the air? Cost them a trip to State. You just have to assume the worst and play accordingly.

The difference is that the Columbus kid WAS showboating. He and his family admitted it later.

[Farmersfan]

You could tell that from the video posted?? Really??



Of course I could! And so could you if you were honest and not ruled by your emotions. Example: The only reasonable answer for the kid to extent the ball like that as he crosses the goal line that wouldn't be considered taunting or poising would be to hand the ball to a ref. Except in this case #1. there was no ref in the picture. #2. The kid didn't keep the ball extended towards the ref that might have been out of the picture. #3. The kid turned away from that direction after he retracted the ball. There are more but those 3 are enough to rule out that answer. The only thing left that is reasonable is Taunting or poising with the ball. Both of which are illegal. Can you provide another explanation?

[Pudlugger]

The point of my post is is that any act that could possibly be considered showboating should be avoided to not put your team at risk not just blatant acts.

[orange machine]

"IGNORANT CALL" let them have a little fun it was clean nobody got hurt and it wasn't offensive good grief!!!

[D'Highlander]

If anyone on the other team got offended by that then they dont need to be playing football..

[Txbroadcaster]

Of course I could! And so could you if you were honest and not ruled by your emotions. Example: The only reasonable answer for the kid to extent the ball like that as he crosses the goal line that wouldn't be considered taunting or poising would be to hand the ball to a ref. Except in this case #1. there was no ref in the picture. #2. The kid didn't keep the ball extended towards the ref that might have been out of the picture. #3. The kid turned away from that direction after he retracted the ball. There are more but those 3 are enough to rule out that answer. The only thing left that is reasonable is Taunting or poising with the ball. Both of which are illegal. Can you provide another explanation?


maybe the kid thought he was already over goal and was gonna drop it then realized he was not

or maybe kid thought an offical was going to be on his left( he turns that way and usually one is on goal line...realized no one was there so brought the ball back in

[Eagle11]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=539272152813286&set=vb.360051957401974&type=2&theater
This is a joke. i dont care how you look at, this is a joke. This is not what the rule was put in for.

[ccmom]

Of course I could! And so could you if you were honest and not ruled by your emotions. Example: The only reasonable answer for the kid to extent the ball like that as he crosses the goal line that wouldn't be considered taunting or poising would be to hand the ball to a ref. Except in this case #1. there was no ref in the picture. #2. The kid didn't keep the ball extended towards the ref that might have been out of the picture. #3. The kid turned away from that direction after he retracted the ball. There are more but those 3 are enough to rule out that answer. The only thing left that is reasonable is Taunting or poising with the ball. Both of which are illegal. Can you provide another explanation?

First of all, what in the world would make you imply that I was being dishonest and/or emotional about my opinion of a video of a Sweetwater football player? Uh, yeah that makes a lot of sense. :rolleyes:

In fact, I never even gave an opinion. I simply wondered how you could tell with such certainty what his intent was from that video clip.

For the record, I think the penalty was appropriate with regard to how I understand the rules. Do I think what he did was blatant? No. Do I agree with the rules? That's a whole other story. I do believe kids have to know not to do anything that even hints at unsportsmanlike, and I'm quite sure that kid learned that lesson the hard way.

[coach]

So tell me why it should be ok to celebrate before you score? Do you celebrate before you shoot a 3 pointer. Do you celebrate before you hit a home run. Its no difference. The kids just need to wait to celebrate until they have achieved what they are celebrating. It may have been his first TD ever, Although I doubt it, but he still shouldn't celebrate it until he accomplishes it. There is far more leniency after you cross the goal line. Its that simple!

completely agree, but is that what you call celebrating?

[cougartino]

If anyone on the other team got offended by that then they dont need to be playing football..

:iagree:

[GrTigers6]

completely agree, but is that what you call celebrating?

In a mild way yes. Its no different than diving for the end zone with no one close behind you. Which I might add is in the rule book specifically as an unsportsmanlike act.
The problem here is he slows down ( Alters his stride) and then sticks the ball out. That is not reaching for the goal line. That is saying I made it. Big difference when it comes to a foul or not. Although its a subtle move it is technically a foul. Like I said before I probably wouldn't have called it but would rather have mentioned to him and the coach about how bad of an idea it was.

[Cam]

I taunt my wife every once in awhile.....but I recently quit when I ended up with a picture frame upside the head!....:doh:

as far as this video...I just don't see it....and from a law enforcement perspective, I sent the link to my two cousins to get their opinion. Richard the cop said, "nah nothin' there", and Rick the Texas Ranger said, "No big deal".....he added: "I've seen cartel runners make way more moves than that!"......:D

[Phantom Stang]

In a mild way yes. Its no different than diving for the end zone with no one close behind you. Which I might add is in the rule book specifically as an unsportsmanlike act.
The problem here is he slows down ( Alters his stride) and then sticks the ball out. That is not reaching for the goal line. That is saying I made it. Big difference when it comes to a foul or not. Although its a subtle move it is technically a foul. Like I said before I probably wouldn't have called it but would rather have mentioned to him and the coach about how bad of an idea it was.
Here's a highlight video of the player in question, Bray Amos, from last year. The touchdowns start at 9:04. Does he celebrate after scoring? Yes! But if you'll notice, the first thing he usually does, is to try to hand the ball to an Official.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub0NELy3IQE



or maybe kid thought an offical was going to be on his left( he turns that way and usually one is on goal line...realized no one was there so brought the ball back in
Bingo!! Advance the video to 10:49, and you'll see the same kid in the same situation. Only this time the ref was in the position you described.

[GrTigers6]

Here's a highlight video of the player in question, Bray Amos, from last year. The touchdowns start at 9:04. Does he celebrate after scoring? Yes! But if you'll notice, the first thing he usually does, is to try to hand the ball to an Official.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub0NELy3IQE


Bingo!! Advance the video to 10:49, and you'll see the same kid in the same situation. Only this time the ref was in the position you described. Except he celebrated with a team mate and then handed the ball to the official. I don't see your point. I am not saying his intention was to celebrate Im just not seeing how that spot of 10:49 proves anything

[BEAST]

Except he celebrated with a team mate and then handed the ball to the official. I don't see your point. I am not saying his intention was to celebrate Im just not seeing how that spot of 10:49 proves anything

I didnt see much in there either. Good looking slot receiver though.




BEAST

[Phantom Stang]

Except he celebrated with a team mate and then handed the ball to the official. I don't see your point. I am not saying his intention was to celebrate Im just not seeing how that spot of 10:49 proves anything
Did you watch the video from 9:04 like I asked?
I said "the first thing he usually does, is to try to hand the ball to an Official". What was he supposed to do, chunk the ball at the ref while he had his arms raised to signal a touchdown?

[GrTigers6]

Did you watch the video from 9:04 like I asked?
I said "the first thing he usually does, is to try to hand the ball to an Official". What was he supposed to do, chunk the ball at the ref while he had his arms raised to signal a touchdown?exactly so why would we expect him to do it at the goal line if he knows he will be busy signaling TD?
I am not saying that he is a bad kid just got a little too excited to early that is all

[regaleagle]

After reviewing the filmclip, it is my honest opinion that this player ROUTINELY entends the ball in one hand, either in the direction of a referee or just by habit. In my estimation, therefore, he was not taunting when he scored on the play that is in question here. Naturally, the refs have no way of knowing this, and it is a judgement call. However, how strictly should any ref enforce this rule at the high school level. I say again....only in blatant and obvious circumstances. This occurrence and others like it, imo, should NOT be called in high school games, esp. if it changes the outcome of the contest. There needs to be some leeway given at this level of competition regarding judgement calls that are highly questionable, as this one certainly was. To be honest, this call would be considered highly questionable at every level of play.

[GrTigers6]

After reviewing the filmclip, it is my honest opinion that this player ROUTINELY entends the ball in one hand, either in the direction of a referee or just by habit. In my estimation, therefore, he was not taunting when he scored on the play that is in question here. Naturally, the refs have no way of knowing this, and it is a judgement call. However, how strictly should any ref enforce this rule at the high school level. I say again....only in blatant and obvious circumstances. This occurrence and others like it, imo, should NOT be called in high school games, esp. if it changes the outcome of the contest. There needs to be some leeway given at this level of competition regarding judgement calls that are highly questionable, as this one certainly was. To be honest, this call would be considered highly questionable at every level of play.So should we call all false starts or just the blatant and obvious ones? Like someone said before you call it and you get destroyed by the offensive coach if you don't then you have to deal with the defensive coach and any motion thereafter is extremely scrutinized. Therefore you are stuck with having to call anything above and beyond the ordinary and think about actions you wouldn't normally call unsportsmanlike. Its a tough decision and I wont argue with any referee who does call one that is questionable. Its not an easy task.

[regaleagle]

Yeah, well you see it from the ref's side of the fence, and I see it from the perspective of the game in general. False starts are different than questionable showboating penalties, and you must agree with that. I just don't agree with your comparisons. I think they are faulty. The discussion here is concerned with showboating, and showboating ONLY.

[GrTigers6]

Yeah, well you see it from the ref's side of the fence, and I see it from the perspective of the game in general. False starts are different than questionable showboating penalties, and you must agree with that. I just don't agree with your comparisons. I think they are faulty. The discussion here is concerned with showboating, and showboating ONLY.

No its about the rules and how they are determinded by officials, fans, coaches and players. That is my comparison. And you have to admit there are some very subtle false starts that some let go and others flag. That is my comparison reasoning.

[YTBulldogs]

After reviewing the filmclip, it is my honest opinion that this player ROUTINELY entends the ball in one hand, either in the direction of a referee or just by habit. In my estimation, therefore, he was not taunting when he scored on the play that is in question here. Naturally, the refs have no way of knowing this, and it is a judgement call. However, how strictly should any ref enforce this rule at the high school level. I say again....only in blatant and obvious circumstances. This occurrence and others like it, imo, should NOT be called in high school games, esp. if it changes the outcome of the contest. There needs to be some leeway given at this level of competition regarding judgement calls that are highly questionable, as this one certainly was. To be honest, this call would be considered highly questionable at every level of play.

It's obvious the coaches/UIL/NCAA want changes made to the game now and in the future. IE: Sportsmanship, targeting, BBW, etc-- or they would not have written these newer rules, or made them a point of emphasis. And, I think if it's to stop in all levels of the game (PW, JH, HS, college, pros) it must be enforced stronger in the lower level contest's. Then, as the player's grow within the game, they'll know it's not tolerated. The coaches, UIL, and NCAA are trying to change something that's been tolerated for many years, and will, over time, be changed. So, unlike you regal, I think less leeway should be given to the HS and lower levels. If they learn it young, they will not do it as they move up levels. At least that's their intentions.

[Rabid Cougar]

No its about the rules and how they are determinded by officials, fans, coaches and players. That is my comparison. And you have to admit there are some very subtle false starts that some let go and others flag. That is my comparison reasoning.

Agree 100%

[regaleagle]

Another official's point of view....which I understand but don't necessarily agree with at this level. Most players don't play at a higher level than high school. I say let them enforce the penalties more harshly in college and be more lenient in JV and Varsity at the high school level. Most high school fans and coaches want to see the kids play clean, but taking away from a little exhuberence when scoring, or throwing a flag just because you want to enforce every questionable call, imo takes away from the game at this level. This level IS different than the college and pro levels, and should be treated DIFFERENTLY, JMO. There will be plenty of opportunities for those going forward to college ball to "make the necessary adjustments" to the way games are called at that higher level. I'm not in favor of flag-throwing when not warranted. And esp. on very questionable calls. There's enough rules in the game already. You refs and former refs are biased and brainwashed toward a slanted view with reasons to justify calls that are supposed to be judgement calls....not automatic penalties.

[Eagle11]

You score in all three sports. That's how they are similar. If you can see that similarity than this conversation is pointless. Its pretty simple logic, wait until you accomplish something before you celebrate. How many times do you see people celebrate early and drop ball or get it knocked out. Its just stupid to celebrate early!
i would say your celebrations sux if you call that a celebration. NO CELEBRATION FOR YOU!!!!! YOU MUST BE PUNISHED!!!!! GOLF CLAPS ALL AROUND sorry if the all caps was too much celebrating.