Can someone explain the price at the pump if the following article is true

[Old Tiger]

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-arabia-fear-north-dakota-one-man-says-132802213.html

[regaleagle]

From what I've been able to garner reading my investment newsletters. the oil & gas producers are not making a killing off the shale production. It's very expensive, but employs Americans in all the related offshoots and keeps our dependence on foreign oil down while stockpiling our reserves. America is still the largest consumer on the planet, with China not too far behind(emerging country). In this case, more production, albeit less profitable than conventional drilling, has many benefits for our economy and trade positioning.

[Celina8]

Our oil production has increased to its highest numbers that we have seen since 2000 from what I have read, but what I have always been led to believe is that the bigger issue is Refinery is limited. There is only so many Oil and Gas Refineries and building new ones are very expensive plus no one including me wants it in their hometown. No matter how much oil we get from the ground, the Refineries can only refine so much per day. On a side note I read where the USA is actually exporting oil now for the first time in years because it is not able to use all that is being produced.

[Aesculus gilmus]

The people who run the U.S. economic system decided long ago that they were against having a "national oil company" as some of the other major producers in the world do, including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Venezuela. Russia allows a few private companies, but it's really, in effect, a nationalized deal there as well.

Countries with nationalized oil production often also subsidize the price at the pump for their citizens. The following brief article discusses this and also claims that even Americans do not pay the full price we should be paying because of subsidies.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gas-prices-pump-europeans-pay-almost-twice-much-us-residents-1322727

In the U.S. (and I am not making any comment on whether this is the right approach or not), the corporations basically run the government. You won't ever vote them out either, because they control both parties and only two parties are allowed. You'll notice whenever a "third party" threat emerges to the system, the two major parties temporarily forget all their differences and unite to shut down the upstart party. I never will forget the TOTAL DEMONIZATION CAMPAIGN launched against Ross Perot when he actually shot to the top of the polls in the summer of 1992. That proved to me that "they" can destroy ANYONE outside their system, no matter how wealthy.

[Old Tiger]

Here is another pretty interesting article


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/the-exchange/washington-could-push-gas-prices-higher-205925735.html

[wimbo_pro]

The people who run the U.S. economic system decided long ago that they were against having a "national oil company" as some of the other major producers in the world do, including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Venezuela. Russia allows a few private companies, but it's really, in effect, a nationalized deal there as well.

Countries with nationalized oil production often also subsidize the price at the pump for their citizens. The following brief article discusses this and also claims that even Americans do not pay the full price we should be paying because of subsidies.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gas-prices-pump-europeans-pay-almost-twice-much-us-residents-1322727

In the U.S. (and I am not making any comment on whether this is the right approach or not), the corporations basically run the government. You won't ever vote them out either, because they control both parties and only two parties are allowed. You'll notice whenever a "third party" threat emerges to the system, the two major parties temporarily forget all their differences and unite to shut down the upstart party. I never will forget the TOTAL DEMONIZATION CAMPAIGN launched against Ross Perot when he actually shot to the top of the polls in the summer of 1992. That proved to me that "they" can destroy ANYONE outside their system, no matter how wealthy.

Good points, AG...but te truth is, Ross Perot was undone by the stupidity and ignorance of one man...Ross Perot.

[LHdog]

Crude oil is a world commodity and prices are set by supply and demand, world-wide. Consumption may be down in the U.S. but is rising in China and India. The U.S. is currently exporting refined products especially gasoline based on world demand. Petro-economics is complex but as long as world demand is strong, prices will not fall much.

[bobcat1]

Has anyone ever looked at how much tax you pay on gas? The government makes more on gas per gallon than the oil companies.

[Pudlugger]

Look up QE2 and Ben Bernanke. Also read up on fiat currency and hyperinflation. Know what it means to have the dollar the global reserve currencyand what happens when that changes. After that you will understand that your dollar is worth about half of what it was in 2008. Just compare the dollar to real money i.e. gold, silver, platinum, or for that matter, oil. Get used to higher prices on just about everything. Remember when a rib eye was $5 a pound? Now it is $9 a pound.

[Manso/V8]

With all the government spending and borrowing, the only way I see to avoid continued devaluation is for the US to start exporting oil and especially natural gas, LNG and or CNG. There is an abundant supply of natural gas iwith new technologies and techniques to tap shales and other unconventional plays. The domestic price of natural gas isn't high enough to make it worth drilling for dry natural gas. With high export market prices, there would be a huge increase in naturral gas drilling activity, creating more high paying jobs, and generate significant severance tax revenue for states. The export of natural gas would improve the balance of trade and sustain the value of the dollar.

[Pudlugger]

With all the government spending and borrowing, the only way I see to avoid continued devaluation is for the US to start exporting oil and especially natural gas, LNG and or CNG. There is an abundant supply of natural gas iwith new technologies and techniques to tap shales and other unconventional plays. The domestic price of natural gas isn't high enough to make it worth drilling for dry natural gas. With high export market prices, there would be a huge increase in naturral gas drilling activity, creating more high paying jobs, and generate significant severance tax revenue for states. The export of natural gas would improve the balance of trade and sustain the value of the dollar.

Yes well said Manso. We have more proven energy resources in the ground right now than Saudi Arabia. In Texas we have enough oil and gas to become the 11th largest energy producing country in the World. Now if those watermelon enviro-Mentalists would step aside with their phoney anti-capitalist agenda the future for America would be bright. I read that they're building a new gas liquids refinery in Baytown. If we could get on with the building of Keystone pipeline Texas and LA would become the largest oil and gas exporting ports in the Western Hemisphere.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Some of these latest replies prove that the U.S. mindset is that the corporations run everything.

None of this exporting will help you or me unless we own those companies (and I do own a small share of several of them).

And the exporting won't bring down the price of gasoline at the pump domestically, which seemed to me to be what Old Tiger wanted to discuss in this thread.

[Manso/V8]

Some of these latest replies prove that the U.S. mindset is that the corporations run everything.

None of this exporting will help you or me unless we own those companies (and I do own a small share of several of them).

And the exporting won't bring down the price of gasoline at the pump domestically, which seemed to me to be what Old Tiger wanted to discuss in this thread.

To some degree you are confusing the market and corporations. "Big Oil" has influence for sure, but there are a alot of small to mediium size oil&gas companies as well. In the DFW area alone, there are over 200 oil&gas operators that look for profitable opportunities to drill.

Exporting natural gas as LNG (liquified natural gas) or CNG (compressed natural gas) would help you and me. It would really make natural gas drilling boom and be a powerful economic engine..........more good jobs and an improved economy helps everyone.

Crude oil is easily shipped around the world, and the price is all about supply and demand. Saudi Arabia and OPEC is one group that blatantly tries to control supply to manipulate price. Because of the types of formations they have, Saudi Arabia can dial production up or down to influence supply and prices. Although most US crude would probably be used here, the ability for the US to export crude would have a balancing effect on the world market. Use of domestic crude and any exports of crude would help our balance of trade and strengthen our currency........which would be be reflected in lower pump prices.

The big thing for us would be able to switch more and more of our energy use to natural gas, for electric power production, and for transportation......replacing gasoline with CNG. In West Texas, the gge - gallon of gas equivalent for CNG is about $1.50 right now, less than half of gasoline and diesel !

[Aesculus gilmus]

I pretty much am aware of all that. I've lived in Texas all my life and even used to work for an oilman.

But I'm talking about the price of a gallon of gasoline at the pump. It would be possible for the government of the U.S. to lower the price at the pump through subsidies to consumers. It's just not politically possible.

In Venezuela, where it IS politically possible. I think the price per gallon is currently a nickel. I understand FULLY why Big Oil hated Chavez and now hates his successor. But if I were a Venezuelan, I think I'd kinda dig not having to pay but about a dollar each time I fill up.

These things about balance of trade and currency valuation, while interesting, are only tangentially related to this topic. BTW, it's already been proven that one way to get gasoline prices back down to DRASTICALLY LOWER levels would be to have another financial crisis as we had in 2008.

During that year, crude oil futures price fell from $147 to $34 and gasoline fell well below $2 per gallon. But there were also 700,000 Americans losing their jobs every month. So, yeah, the Federal Reserve could've allowed everything to deflate and we'd be paying way less for gasoline, but even fewer people would be employed.

I think what Ben Bernanke (who has the dubious distinction of being threatened with death by Texas Gov. Rick Perry while the latter was running for President) did was to stretch out what would have been a civilization-ending Greater Depression into a Lesser Depression which will last only 10 to 20 years, if we're lucky. But I think once the initial crash occurred in 2007-08, his choices were limited to those two and he chose the latter. (That's because to do the former would've destroyed the major Wall Street banks who own the Fed.)

[Pudlugger]

I pretty much am aware of all that. I've lived in Texas all my life and even used to work for an oilman.

But I'm talking about the price of a gallon of gasoline at the pump. It would be possible for the government of the U.S. to lower the price at the pump through subsidies to consumers. It's just not politically possible.

In Venezuela, where it IS politically possible. I think the price per gallon is currently a nickel. I understand FULLY why Big Oil hated Chavez and now hates his successor. But if I were a Venezuelan, I think I'd kinda dig not having to pay but about a dollar each time I fill up.

These things about balance of trade and currency valuation, while interesting, are only tangentially related to this topic. BTW, it's already been proven that one way to get gasoline prices back down to DRASTICALLY LOWER levels would be to have another financial crisis as we had in 2008.

During that year, crude oil futures price fell from $147 to $34 and gasoline fell well below $2 per gallon. But there were also 700,000 Americans losing their jobs every month. So, yeah, the Federal Reserve could've allowed everything to deflate and we'd be paying way less for gasoline, but even fewer people would be employed.

I think what Ben Bernanke (who has the dubious distinction of being threatened with death by Texas Gov. Rick Perry while the latter was running for President) did was to stretch out what would have been a civilization-ending Greater Depression into a Lesser Depression which will last only 10 to 20 years, if we're lucky. But I think once the initial crash occurred in 2007-08, his choices were limited to those two and he chose the latter. (That's because to do the former would've destroyed the major Wall Street banks who own the Fed.)

You lost me with all that Hugo Chavez admiration....he was a socialist pig.

[Aesculus gilmus]

You lost me with all that Hugo Chavez admiration....he was a socialist pig.

All I said about Chavez was that he subsidized gasoline to where consumers in Venezuela only have to pay a nickel a gallon. Chavez is dead, as you know, but the policy must be pretty popular because his successor hasn't changed it.

My motto is "principles over personalities." The principle of having affordable gas prices/transportation is what is at issue here. The point is that any consumer item which becomes too expensive can be subsidized. Venezuela decided as a matter of national policy that gasoline is so important to people's lives that even the poor need to be able to afford it.

As Bill Clinton has pointed out (and the economy, while not great, was not always on the verge of total implosion when he was President), no successful country on earth has an economic system that is entirely private. All economies are socialized to an extent.

Those who wanted a 100 percent privatized economy lost that debate during the FIRST Great Depression. Now they want to privatize completely all over again to have ANOTHER Great Depression. You can either learn from history or you can repeat it. My money's on the latter. Humans never fail to fail.

[GreenMonster]

Our oil production has increased to its highest numbers that we have seen since 2000 from what I have read, but what I have always been led to believe is that the bigger issue is Refinery is limited. There is only so many Oil and Gas Refineries and building new ones are very expensive plus no one including me wants it in their hometown. No matter how much oil we get from the ground, the Refineries can only refine so much per day. On a side note I read where the USA is actually exporting oil now for the first time in years because it is not able to use all that is being produced.

Our refining capacity isn't a problem if we were only producing for us. The real problem is that US refiners have realized that the European market is an easy way for them to generate huge profits on exports because the European refining capacity has nowhere near the ability to provide all of the fuel that they need. Because of this they are willing to pay higher prices and historically have paid higher prices for fuel. This in turn creates an artificial shortage in supplies here driving our prices up. United States is the world's #1 exporter of refined fuels today. We are also the world's #1 importer of crude oil. We didn't export much of our refined supplies until Bush/Cheney came through the White House and relaxed the export taxes. It's kind of ironic how this is he same time that local gasoline prices jumped from around $1.25/gallon to around $3 in less than 2 years. And they blamed it on 9/11 and Wall Street.

[Pudlugger]

All I said about Chavez was that he subsidized gasoline to where consumers in Venezuela only have to pay a nickel a gallon. Chavez is dead, as you know, but the policy must be pretty popular because his successor hasn't changed it.

My motto is "principles over personalities." The principle of having affordable gas prices/transportation is what is at issue here. The point is that any consumer item which becomes too expensive can be subsidized. Venezuela decided as a matter of national policy that gasoline is so important to people's lives that even the poor need to be able to afford it.

As Bill Clinton has pointed out (and the economy, while not great, was not always on the verge of total implosion when he was President), no successful country on earth has an economic system that is entirely private. All economies are socialized to an extent.

Those who wanted a 100 percent privatized economy lost that debate during the FIRST Great Depression. Now they want to privatize completely all over again to have ANOTHER Great Depression. You can either learn from history or you can repeat it. My money's on the latter. Humans never fail to fail.

Take away the free market and replace it with socialism i.e. central planning, price controls, government subsidies and cronyism and all for cheap gasoline? This is exactly what's wrong with the American electorate. Vote away your freedoms and our wealth creating economic system for some free stuff.What are you going to do with your $1.25/gal gasoline when you have no job to drive too? Oh, right you will work for the government I suppose.

[Manso/V8]

What's wrong with $3.50 gallon gas? It is still a bargain at that price.

[regaleagle]

Silver broke the $22 barrier and gold gained $30 on trading yesterday, folks. Fasten your seat belts, get out of the stock market as soon as you can, buy as much precious metals as possible, and get your dollars out of the banks and into the credit unions. When the crap hits the fan at the Fed, it will be swift and ugly.

[regaleagle]

The Central planners tried to squash the gold market, and it has backfired in their face. They have shipped tons of ETF gold from the vaults to Asia, leaving all those holding paper contracts against gold high & dry. Now they will have to accept cash, and when the unwinding hits full swing, they will be paid in devalued dollars....and not have the hedge of physical gold as it skyrockets. Same for the Silver ETFs. Mining stocks will soar again, and the physical metals will become almost impossible to place orders on and actually receive delivery. You may be able to lock-in your price on an order, but they'll have your $$$$ and you won't have your metals. It's gonna get dicey when all the wallstreeters are clamoring for pms at the same time. The premiums in the East are sky-high right this minute, with Asians buying any pm they can put their hands on. The dollar is doomed.....and the signals are stronger than ever that this whole quantitative easing will unravel by this time next year. Gold will break the $2000 barrier by the end of the year, and silver will then become the preferred pm choice of the masses....soaring to unprecedented highs. Buy the silver, folks....while it's cheap and while you can. Your simply trading fiat currency(paper dollars) for real money(precious metals). Which do you think is better to hold when our financial system collapses and the dollar loses all its purchasing power. Right now the dollar is supposedly still the reserve currency of the world, but in reality many other countries will no longer trade for dollars. Heck, you can't even open a bank account in Europe or Canada right now if you are an American. They don't want your dollars, or to be hassled by the US taxing authorities either. Might as well try your luck in Vegas, lol.

[Aesculus gilmus]

Take away the free market and replace it with socialism i.e. central planning, price controls, government subsidies and cronyism and all for cheap gasoline? This is exactly what's wrong with the American electorate. Vote away your freedoms and our wealth creating economic system for some free stuff.What are you going to do with your $1.25/gal gasoline when you have no job to drive too? Oh, right you will work for the government I suppose.

Ironic that you mention this. One of the key issues for a lot of the long-term unemployed is that they can't afford to travel from where they live to where the jobs are.

The biggest irony is the fact this discussion is playing out on a message board which is dedicated to following the football teams of one of the classifications of the "socialistic" Texas public school system. Shouldn't you be on TAPPS Down Low to be consistent.? I'll bet the domain name is available if there isn't one yet. Support the private teams, not the socialist ones.

[GreenMonster]

Ironic that you mention this. One of the key issues for a lot of the long-term unemployed is that they can't afford to travel from where they live to where the jobs are.

The biggest irony is the fact this discussion is playing out on a message board which is dedicated to following the football teams of one of the classifications of the "socialistic" Texas public school system. Shouldn't you be on TAPPS Down Low to be consistent.? I'll bet the domain name is available if there isn't one yet. Support the private teams, not the socialist ones.
Hell, all politicians are socialists these days. In order to increase one's own power it has to be that way and power is addictive. I don't see many politicians declining to run for another term because they don't want to lose that power.

[Pudlugger]

The Central planners tried to squash the gold market, and it has backfired in their face. They have shipped tons of ETF gold from the vaults to Asia, leaving all those holding paper contracts against gold high & dry. Now they will have to accept cash, and when the unwinding hits full swing, they will be paid in devalued dollars....and not have the hedge of physical gold as it skyrockets. Same for the Silver ETFs. Mining stocks will soar again, and the physical metals will become almost impossible to place orders on and actually receive delivery. You may be able to lock-in your price on an order, but they'll have your $$$$ and you won't have your metals. It's gonna get dicey when all the wallstreeters are clamoring for pms at the same time. The premiums in the East are sky-high right this minute, with Asians buying any pm they can put their hands on. The dollar is doomed.....and the signals are stronger than ever that this whole quantitative easing will unravel by this time next year. Gold will break the $2000 barrier by the end of the year, and silver will then become the preferred pm choice of the masses....soaring to unprecedented highs. Buy the silver, folks....while it's cheap and while you can. Your simply trading fiat currency(paper dollars) for real money(precious metals). Which do you think is better to hold when our financial system collapses and the dollar loses all its purchasing power. Right now the dollar is supposedly still the reserve currency of the world, but in reality many other countries will no longer trade for dollars. Heck, you can't even open a bank account in Europe or Canada right now if you are an American. They don't want your dollars, or to be hassled by the US taxing authorities either. Might as well try your luck in Vegas, lol.

Great post Regaleagle. Here's the answer to the original question about $3.50 gasoline:

http://www.htrnews.com/article/20130814/MAN0101/308150187/Late-s-diner-offers-1964-prices-customers-paying-silver-coins?nclick_check=1

[Pudlugger]

Ironic that you mention this. One of the key issues for a lot of the long-term unemployed is that they can't afford to travel from where they live to where the jobs are.

The biggest irony is the fact this discussion is playing out on a message board which is dedicated to following the football teams of one of the classifications of the "socialistic" Texas public school system. Shouldn't you be on TAPPS Down Low to be consistent.? I'll bet the domain name is available if there isn't one yet. Support the private teams, not the socialist ones.

Obviously you just don't get it so I'm done with this discussion.

[wimbo_pro]

Our present economic system is the worst in the world....except for everyone elses.

[regaleagle]

Our present economic system is the worst in the world....except for everyone elses.

Not far from the truth, unfortunately. There are SOME countries that are financially not that deep in debt, but those countries don't account for much in trade, manufacturing, or food production. And since the dollar just happens to be the world's reserve currency(fiat funnymoney), the standard of living in the US will be greatly diminished when dolllars are no longer accepted abroad like they have been for decades. Get ready to cancel any expeditures that are frivolous or not necessary. Things will be changing here in the good ol' USA. Our $17 trillion debt is really more like $70 trillion....and the currency-printing is just free dollars for the Central bankers to pay down interest on the debt and keep the dollar floating as the reserve currency for trade advantages. This house of cards WILL fall....it's just a matter of time. China is positioning itself to have their yuan replace the dollar as an international reserve currency, but that won't happen either. Gold and Silver will again become the predominant acceptable form of wealth when this worldwide financial collapse comes to full fruition. You are seeing the beginnings of it now if you can see beyond your nose. Fiat(paper) currencies have and always will fail, as they are printed to steal purchasing power from citizens to pay for increases in standards of living, wars, etc. for nations as they develop. (See Rome). Not one single fiat currency EVER put into existence has survived thruout history, and we're talking thousands of them folks. Why should the dollar be different. History repeats itself over and over again. The greed of men in control of governments wishing to exert power over its citizens(financial power is power) is always the culprit. Sometimes it takes decades for the currency to fail...it took the Romans several centuries(the longest recorded in history), but it ALWAYS(100%) fails. And guess what the world ends up reverting back to everytime. Duh...you guessed it....precious metals.

[BwdLion73]

regaleagle,

Since we have a week till the next scrimage. When we revert to precious metals do you carry your gold too HEB?
does 7-11 or Valero take gold? I know my long wheel base tens fit in a slot machine but how do you get that gold in?

Is the purpose of buying gold to make money as it goes up? When you get to a point where you feel that it is time to sell some gold do you convert it into US currency? I'm just a farm boy who has worked, bought property, and saved cash over the years.

I've been hording ammo for years and figured that would be the best thing to trade ... or ... take what I needed to survive.

[Manso/V8]

regaleagle - I am not saying you are wrong, I am curious about your view. Where are you getting the information that leads you to this opinion? What percentage of your assets are you putting in precious metals? And of the precious metals, how are you splitting that up? Gold has been a long time standard, silver to a lesser degree. I believe there is more available silver in the world than gold to be mined. Unless things have changed since I was associated with the mining industry, there is a lot of silver that can be extracted once the price gets past a certain point.

I haven't really looked in to it, but there does seem to be a lot of advertising urging people to buy gold and now lately silver...........that makes me question. I am not against buying precious metals for a certain percentage of your assets, but I think there are other things that are a good hedge as well, like land.

[regaleagle]

All of the silver above ground is being used yearly for technology and manufacturing. There is more silver below ground, but mining can't keep up with demand when you add in the silver being horded in strong hands. Gold has very little technology uses compared to silver, and is not used up like silver. I have roughly 25% of my assets into silver, none into gold. Silver/gold ratio is at 1:50 today, but historically it's been 1:16 thruout history when pms are the standard. That's tons of upside for silver, regardless what gold does. Just the fact that China has committed to tons of solar power for the coming years, as other emerging countries(silver), and medical equipment, and other high tech usages, silver is a wonder metal and has many properties that no other metal has for today's(and tomorrow's) technology manufacturing needs. The bonus is that when gold does move back above $2000(it will), and perhaps as high as $3000 by this time next year, it will bring silver back close to that historical silver/gold ratio. There's just no way, with all that's happening with the markets worldwide, that gold will not become bullish again for another run breaking previous highs. It's gonna happen because the markets and economies of the world are in trouble financially, and those that control the wealth will protect their wealth. If economies were healthy, this would not occur. Remember, every investment(natural resources, stocks, bonds, manufacturing....everything) is based on the dollar or another fiat currency that is being printed 24/7. It's just paper, and has no intrinsic value on its own....only faith. When that faith comes into serious question, people seek more stable types of assets to protect their wealth. Real Estate values will decline, but perhaps oil and gas could possibly be counted if not so many offshoots for it were invested in currency-backed investments. Even those owners/investors will convert over to the precious metals to protect their holdings. Barter is what it is.... a last resort. If you had just $400/mo. you could convert to silver instead of keeping it in dollars, why would you not do that when all scenarios point to trouble on the financial horizon. Something is better than nothing. The printing of currency devalues your purchasing power....end of story. Excessive currency printing destroys value of that currency....economics 101. Go to King World News and read some articles. From there, you can surf other sites to get a better picture of what's really happening that the US mainstream media does not want you to know, for obvious reasons.

[regaleagle]

To answer another queston, let's say you traded roughly $25 for one Silver American Eagle coin next week(.999 fine silver @today's price). And then let's assume you keep that American Eagle until the spot price on silver reaches $50 in December (a likely scenario). At that point you decide to cash it in for dollars to buy something. Would $25 paper dollars have been able to do the same thing? Of course not. But what guarantee do you have that silver prices will escalate? None. What guarantee do you have that dollars will be worth more. None. Take your pick, but I already know which one you're picking. But silver go drop below $25 per ounce by December, you say. Yep, it sure could. That's why you need to do your due diligence on what's really going on out there in the economies of the world. Precious metals prices are affected by a whole slew of different variables, but right now things are looking kinda "iffy" for the world's most prodigious currencies. Name one that's in great shape.

[GreenMonster]

Name one that's in great shape.

HA!! I can name one! The mint condition silver certificate that I keep in my safety deposit box at the bank!!! :taunt:

[1st and goal]

The government has no business subsidizing oil prices. Casey, it you want to pay less at the pump, get a small car or motorcycle. The more people that do that, demand comes down, supply goes up and price drops. But if it drops below $90/barrel, our local economy will suffer as the shale fracking oil industry will go down.