3a programs

[ynot]

I have witnessed over the last few year that 3a football in general are much improved. with coaching also becoming much better in the rural areas. With the shift or the trend leaning towards the East ( Gilmer, Carthage, Navasota, Henderson, Chapel Hill, ect....) What does the future hold for such programs like Argyle, who honestly if they cant win one this year dont think they will ever have this kind of talent again. I just dont see a championship caliber team coming from N Texas?

[Old Tiger]

Navasota isn't east at all

[Weebe]

Stephenville?

[Yoe_09]

Navasota isn't east at all

Navasota is more near the edge, but Brazos Valley=Central Texas.

[Ville-D]

Stephenville?

We are east of Abilene Wylie and South of Argyle so that would make a south east Texas team from that point of view....

[marler1972]

ynot = clueless

[Old Tiger]

Navasota is more near the edge, but Brazos Valley=Central Texas.

I consider anything west of 45 east texas.

[movethechain]

I consider anything west of 45 east texas.

??? :thinking:

[buckeyebob]

East Texas is east of Canton & north of Diboll...but we have so much JuJu that it spills off on our neighbors...our opponents receive massive dosses (Argyle is great example) of it...& we are very humble...it is not true that we have web feet nor married to my sister.

[Ernest T Bass]

Abilene is closer to the easternmost point of Texas(Texarkana) than the westernmost point(El Paso), so technically Abilene is in East Texas.

[Ville-D]

Abilene is closer to the easternmost point of Texas(Texarkana) than the westernmost point(El Paso), so technically Abilene is in East Texas.

Agreed - Stephenville is East Texas.

So now East Texas did win a SC last year.

Let the East Texas will repeat talk begin (Stephenville repeat)

[Old Tiger]

We are east of Abilene Wylie and South of Argyle so that would make a south east Texas team from that point of view....
Golden triangle? lol

[Old Tiger]

I found this new map of geographic texas

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9508/or5.png

[slingshot]

Abilene is closer to the easternmost point of Texas(Texarkana) than the westernmost point(El Paso), so technically Abilene is in East Texas.So then where are all our pine trees?

[Ville-D]

So then where are all our pine trees?

We got pine trees in Stephenville. 3 big ones right in from of the High School. I knew there was a reason we won state. It was all that East Texas speed we wielded.

[Ville-D]

I found this new map of geographic texas

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9508/or5.png


Nice research.

[YTBulldogs]

i found this new map of geographic texas

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9508/or5.png

lol.

[buckeyebob]

This is pitifull...a bunch of Kooks bloviating on things that they have "0" knowledge of...I am from Deep East Texas livng on property that has been in my family since 1823...now pay attention children and get your maps out:
Deep East Texas is east of Canton, north to the south bank of the Red River, east to mid-Red River (we do not recognize the current USA line as Shreveport is Deep East Texas - the debate comes from a poker game & the b******s cheated), & south to Diboll. Orange is not in East Texas and there is no word that rhymes with Orange. South of Diboll are some areas of Deep East Texas but are mixed with Coastal East Texas areas. Dallas nor Houston are East Texas.

The red line on the map above is the maximum distance that East Texas Speed can possibly travel.

Next question...

[Ville-D]

We got pine trees in Stephenville. 3 big ones right in from of the High School. I knew there was a reason we won state. It was all that East Texas speed we wielded.

609

Stephenville High School Pine Trees

[slingshot]

609

Stephenville High School Pine Trees

"Behind the Pine Curtain..."

[speedbump]

"Behind the Pine Curtain..."

That aint no pine curtain - this is a pine curtain.

http://www.texasbob.com/stadium/stadium.php?id=409#.UeRcNY2C5Ao

[GreenMonster]

One of the reasons that I believe Western Texas has been in a drought is the mindset of the fans and coaches. Out West you run the wing-t or some variation of it because that's what your fans wanted to see and what the administration (mostly old wing-t coaches) were looking for in a head coach. East Texas seemed to grasp onto the spread offense quickly to take advantage of all the speed found floating in the gene pools out that way. After 10-15 years of having their tails handed to them West Texas folks are starting to open their eyes and realize that there might be something to this newfangled spread football concept. 3 yards and a cloud of dust just don't get 'er done anymore. My experience as a coach is this, spread offenses have forced a change in hs football in Texas because it forces you to go spread yourself if you ever want to have a chance against it because you can't simulate it in practice with a wing-t mindset. #1 you as a coach don't understand the concepts so your scout team doesn't adjust to your defensive adjustments n practice leading to the "we stopped it all week in practice" comments on the sideline when you realize it's 28-0 and the first quarter hasn't even ended. #2 your athletes get overwhelmed both physically and mentally because they aren't used to the fast pace that spread teams run at so you end up with a lot of blown coverages either due to fatigue, confusion, or lack of communication. West Texas guys are realizing that the game is passing them by and are playing catch up right now. Notice that most of the West Texas teams that have had pretty consistent success over the last 10+ years were led by coaches who grasped this early on. They may not have had the same talent as a lot of the teams they beat but they did a better job of utilizing their talent and creating those defensive breakdowns and capitalized off of them to beat people then get blown up when they face an East Texas team with more talent running a similar system. I know a lot of you guys out there are shaking your head right now thinking "it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's not the X's and O's" which is true to a degree, but if you run into a team that can run the spread efficiently and spread the ball around to multiple players and can keep you off balance they are going to beat you even if you have better talent. Match your talent up with the same x's and o's to an educated experienced spread coach that can teach it and look out. This is coming from a guy that hates new school, spread it out, backyard football. I'd rather see a couple of wing-t teams duke it out all night long but I truly believe that the spread offense forces you to run the spread offense in order to have any chance of defending the spread offense effectively. I think there are a whole lot of West Texas coaches that are coming to the same realization, therefore I believe West Texas is finally gaining ground on the East Texas guys. Will they catch up completely, yet to be determined.

[Eagle1]

I think the above post is accurate, but the main thing is that East Texas coaching has caught up to West Texas coaching not that it is better it has just caught up. If coaching is pretty even it then becomes about the athletes. There are places in East Texas now running consistent hard working programs like you have always seen in West Texas.

[slingshot]

I think the above post is accurate, but the main thing is that East Texas coaching has caught up to West Texas coaching not that it is better it has just caught up. If coaching is pretty even it then becomes about the athletes. There are places in East Texas now running consistent hard working programs like you have always seen in West Texas.Very true--Green Monster is spot on as well... prob a big part of why Coach Sandifer has had so much success--he adopted the spread very early and has had a lot of success, even with 'West Texas talent'.

[speedbump]

" I know a lot of you guys out there are shaking your head right now thinking "it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's not the X's and O's" which is true to a degree, but if you run into a team that can run the spread efficiently and spread the ball around to multiple players and can keep you off balance they are going to beat you even if you have better talent."

EC may not buy that. The only spread team to beat them was Stephenville and not one spread team stopped ECs running game. It makes no difference what you run. If you do it right you will be hard to beat.

[BEAST]

" I know a lot of you guys out there are shaking your head right now thinking "it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's not the X's and O's" which is true to a degree, but if you run into a team that can run the spread efficiently and spread the ball around to multiple players and can keep you off balance they are going to beat you even if you have better talent."

EC may not buy that. The only spread team to beat them was Stephenville and not one spread team stopped ECs running game. It makes no difference what you run. If you do it right you will be hard to beat.

You are saying that not one spread team including Stephenville stopped ECs offense, right? Then why didnt EC beat Ville?




BEAST

[refereedoc]

They stopped us once on an interception and scored 9 offensive td's and one defensive with no punts. If my math is correct, we stopped them 5 times since they scored 35:vrycnfsd:


BEAST[/QUOTE]

[speedbump]

You are saying that not one spread team including Stephenville stopped ECs offense, right? Then why didnt EC beat Ville?
BEAST

Because we didn't stop their offense. If you think scoring 35 is being stopped,I want some of what your drinking.

[toddg]

If you don't want to run the spread, the "I" formation is the way to go.. Much more diverse than the wing -t or any version of it...See last years 5a champs Katy

[buckeyebob]

All very true...throw in a No Hudle, subing in & out all night, and an occasional Pistol & Wildcat...deadly...oh yeah, Eats Texas Speed Kills

[hollywood]

" I know a lot of you guys out there are shaking your head right now thinking "it's about the Jimmy's and Joe's not the X's and O's" which is true to a degree, but if you run into a team that can run the spread efficiently and spread the ball around to multiple players and can keep you off balance they are going to beat you even if you have better talent."

EC may not buy that. The only spread team to beat them was Stephenville and not one spread team stopped ECs running game. It makes no difference what you run. If you do it right you will be hard to stop.

I wouldn't say they stopped EC's running game... but they definitely slowed down 2 of the 3 1,000 yard rushers! Heck Stephenville averaged more yards per carry than EC and they aren't even a running team. Lol

http://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/state-football/boxscores/SHS_ECHS_Book.pdf

Also, refer to my sig. ;)

[BEAST]

Because we didn't stop their offense. If you think scoring 35 is being stopped,I want some of what your drinking.

The point was which style of offense can produce more points. Neither D stopped the others O, but 1 teams offense managed 70 points, the others didnt.




BEAST

[speedbump]

[QUOTE=BEAST;1750076]The point was which style of offense can produce more points. Neither D stopped the others O, but 1 teams offense managed 70 points, the others didnt."

Stephenville wasn't the only one EC played. The Ricebirds outscored the other ten or so spreads big time. What does that tell you? I guess the only example should be the number of points scored by the best team in the state.

[Old Tiger]

[QUOTE=BEAST;1750076]The point was which style of offense can produce more points. Neither D stopped the others O, but 1 teams offense managed 70 points, the others didnt."

Stephenville wasn't the only one EC played. The Ricebirds outscored the other ten or so spreads big time. What does that tell you? I guess the only example should be the number of points scored by the best team in the state.

That both play bad teams outside of deep playoff runs

[Weebe]

[QUOTE=speedbump;1750161]

That both play bad teams outside of deep playoff runs

Do you purposely say stupid stuff to get a rise out of people?

[TXfootballboi!]

El campo was garbage! The ville was playing with them all night

[maestro]

El Campo is a huge district rival

I would not call them garbage. That's pretty strong. I will say this. Coach Gillis strength is converting third and fourth downs and milking the time of possession. His offense is his best defense. A grinder.

But it leads to trouble when turnovers or not converting third downs occur.

Ok, Ricebirds, that's enough of me complimenting you. Hahaha

[TXfootballboi!]

Ok not garbage but alright! Im really interested to see how they look this year!

[maestro]

And I hope they miss the playoffs!!!
See??

District rivals.

:)

[hollywood]

El Campo is a huge district rival

I would not call them garbage. That's pretty strong. I will say this. Coach Gillis strength is converting third and fourth downs and milking the time of possession. His offense is his best defense. A grinder.

But it leads to trouble when turnovers or not converting third downs occur.

Ok, Ricebirds, that's enough of me complimenting you. Hahaha

His offense is his best defense? Unless going up against an offense that can score on just about every possession. I don't think Sville punted once the entire game. Give some credit to the defense for making a few stops too. ;)

Here's the deal. The grind it out ball control run style offenses have their place and can do well against average to above average teams in 3A. But when facing a team with a high powered spread fast tempo offense and above average defense... they'll get toasted. Here's why. It just takes 1-2 stops against a ball control offense by a team that has a high powered offense and the former is playing catch up from that point on. Takes them out of their comfort zone and forces them to try to score in a way they are not comfortable with and that's passing the ball. This creates even more turnovers and loss of possession. Pretty simple. Beaumont Ozen, Waco La Vega, Amarillo, Alvarillo (oops, Alvarado), Venus, Hillsboro, Burnet, (more of a spread), Kennedale, Abilene Wylie, Kilgore, and El Campo all got to see first hand how it works. All but Burnet were ball control run oriented types of offenses.

[slingshot]

...Beaumont Ozen, Waco La Vega, Amarillo, Alvarillo (oops, Alvarado), Venus, Hillsboro, Burnet, (more of a spread), Kennedale, Abilene Wylie, Kilgore, and El Campo all got to see first hand how it works. All but Burnet were ball control run oriented types of offenses.We're a 'ball control, grind it out offense? Really? We spread it out and run/throw equally...

[speedbump]

His offense is his best defense? Unless going up against an offense that can score on just about every possession. I don't think Sville punted once the entire game. Give some credit to the defense for making a few stops too. ;)

Here's the deal. The grind it out ball control run style offenses have their place and can do well against average to above average teams in 3A. But when facing a team with a high powered spread fast tempo offense and above average defense... they'll get toasted. Here's why. It just takes 1-2 stops against a ball control offense by a team that has a high powered offense and the former is playing catch up from that point on. Takes them out of their comfort zone and forces them to try to score in a way they are not comfortable with and that's passing the ball. This creates even more turnovers and loss of possession. Pretty simple. Beaumont Ozen, Waco La Vega, Amarillo, Alvarillo (oops, Alvarado), Venus, Hillsboro, Burnet, (more of a spread), Kennedale, Abilene Wylie, Kilgore, and El Campo all got to see first hand how it works. All but Burnet were ball control run oriented types of offenses.

So what happened to the 10 or so spread teams EC beat? Did they all just have a bad day? LOL Stephenville took advantage of ECs biggest weakness , their pass defense (secondary) because they had easily the best recievers and passer the Ricebirds faced all year. Simple as that. It was the players, not the type offense used that won the state championship.

[hollywood]

We're a 'ball control, grind it out offense? Really? We spread it out and run/throw equally...

LOL.. AW is not a spread offense. May run some formations out of spread. But AW is not known for their high output spread.

[BEAST]

So what happened to the 10 or so spread teams EC beat? Did they all just have a bad day? LOL Stephenville took advantage of ECs biggest weakness , their pass defense (secondary) because they had easily the best recievers and passer the Ricebirds faced all year. Simple as that. It was the players, not the type offense used that won the state championship.

If you read Hollywoods previous posts he is talking about excellent up tempo spread teams, not average ones.




BEAST

[hollywood]

So what happened to the 10 or so spread teams EC beat? Did they all just have a bad day? LOL Stephenville took advantage of ECs biggest weakness , their pass defense (secondary) because they had easily the best recievers and passer the Ricebirds faced all year. Simple as that. It was the players, not the type offense used that won the state championship.

You make this too easy speedbump. Execution, execution, execution. The other 10 or so teams EC faced were more than likely average to above average 3A teams running the spread... or trying to at least. Yes it does take athletes but it's also how the program is developed here. Execution driven. Maybe the UFO's had some kind of effect on the water in the Ville or something. :eek: They just keep winning with the same type of offensive and defensive schemes year in and year out. Stephenville isn't a well known metro area. It's an agricultural based community with hard working, strong work ethic minded citizens that expect nothing less than high expectations... with a little extra I guess from the UFO's everyone referes to. :D

[speedbump]

If you read Hollywoods previous posts he is talking about excellent up tempo spread teams, not average ones.
BEAST

My guess is there aren't as many of those type around as he thinks.

[hollywood]

If you read Hollywoods previous posts he is talking about excellent up tempo spread teams, not average ones.




BEAST

Yep, BEAST knows. Brownwood 2010 was not an average spread offense. One of the best of all time IMHO!

[toddg]

If you read Hollywoods previous posts he is talking about excellent up tempo spread teams, not average ones.




BEAST i saw what Katy did to Cedar Hill in last years 5a championship..so not always the case..and Katy's QB played with a broken bone in his leg.. it all boils down to the players fitting into the system, whatever system that is... its always the players

[BEAST]

i saw what Katy did to Cedar Hill in last years 5a championship..so not always the case..and Katy's QB played with a broken bone in his leg.. it all boils down to the players fitting into the system, whatever system that is... its always the players

True. But explain all of Southlakes success on the biggest stage against the likes of Trinity etc. They didnt have the best athletes most of the time.




BEAST

[hollywood]

i saw what Katy did to Cedar Hill in last years 5a championship..so not always the case..and Katy's QB played with a broken bone in his leg.. it all boils down to the players fitting into the system, whatever system that is... its always the players

To a certain degree. Don't forget about coaching! Look at the programs that continue to win.

Well, since we're on the subject, take Stephenville for instance. They were not a winning program before Briles arrived in 87 or 88. Yes they won games but were not successful year in and year out in terms of winning and playoff appearances. Once he implemented a program that works and set the expectation requirements to a whole other level, great things started to happen. Trust me, I saw it all change over the course of 3 seasons. I was on the other end of it though. Not a good feeling then. But am respectful enough to give credit where credit is due. Stephenville is fortunate to have a product of the system Briles instilled at the helm today.

[toddg]

True. But explain all of Southlakes success on the biggest stage against the likes of Trinity etc. They didnt have the best athletes most of the time.






BEAST
they too, stumbled against a grind it out team in 2003 Katy...but your right..maybe not the best athletes, but the best KIND of athletes..being from Brownwood, you know that type..the kids that make themselves great athletes thru determination, hard work, attitude, tradition, pride..etc..those kind of kids are hard to beat

[hollywood]

they too, stumbled against a grind it out team in 2003 Katy...but your right..maybe not the best athletes, but the best KIND of athletes..being from Brownwood, you know that type..the kids that make themselves great athletes thru determination, hard work, attitude, tradition, pride..etc..those kind of kids are hard to beat

Program

[regaleagle]

I have witnessed over the last few year that 3a football in general are much improved. with coaching also becoming much better in the rural areas. With the shift or the trend leaning towards the East ( Gilmer, Carthage, Navasota, Henderson, Chapel Hill, ect....) What does the future hold for such programs like Argyle, who honestly if they cant win one this year dont think they will ever have this kind of talent again. I just dont see a championship caliber team coming from N Texas?

Hey Junior....I just read your opening of the thread. Have you looked at the 10-year record of Argyle at all??? They may be due for ONE bad season somewhere along the line, but if you are insinuating they are done after this season, you'd better think twice. You're not giving the program enough credit. Just look at Gilmer....their enrollment mirrors Argyle's. I believe these two schools have the best winning percentage of all 3A schools in the last 10 years, Gilmer having the slight edge. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. And what are you gonna say if Argyle wins it all this season, huh? I'd say Argyle has a program to be reckoned with....only 668 enrollment and playing the schedule they do every year. If you or anyone else does not agree....then that's just foolish thinking.

[toddg]

Program
yep!! and those programs are the ones when you go to their games..you see the peewee kids paying attention to the games..instilling the pride, focusing on the tradition, building the championship state of mind...Alvarado is in the infancy of such a program..and having championship programs like Stephenville in our district only makes us better and more focused in keeping progress moving in that direction.

[hollywood]

Hey Junior....I just read your opening of the thread. Have you looked at the 10-year record of Argyle at all??? They may be due for ONE bad season somewhere along the line, but if you are insinuating they are done after this season, you'd better think twice. You're not giving the program enough credit. Just look at Gilmer....their enrollment mirrors Argyle's. I believe these two schools have the best winning percentage of all 3A schools in the last 10 years, Gilmer having the slight edge. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. And what are you gonna say if Argyle wins it all this season, huh? I'd say Argyle has a program to be reckoned with....only 668 enrollment and playing the schedule they do every year. If you or anyone else does not agree....then that's just foolish thinking.

Very good point regal. More with less.

[hollywood]

yep!! and those programs are the ones when you go to their games..you see the peewee kids paying attention to the games..instilling the pride, focusing on the tradition, building the championship state of mind...Alvarado is in the infancy of such a program..and having championship programs like Stephenville in our district only makes us better and more focused in keeping progress moving in that direction.

Well said mi compadre!

[regaleagle]

I will say this about quality spread teams....there has to be a quality rb in the mix to keep the opponent honest. Without that ingredient, the spread can be beat. All the spread teams that have been successful have had that one rb or running threat that carries them to success. I know that Argyle realized the need to add in more running threat several years ago, and it has helped the program(and the offense) immensely. It has also had a positive effect on building quality on the defensive side simply thru looks and recognition in practices.

[regaleagle]

Conversely, without a good throwing qb to lead the spread, the coaching staff will have no alternative but to build its offense around another type of attack...maybe running the I. But again, good programs start with development early on with the kids and usually can find the kid(s) that will be the qbs that fit their program and offensive philosophy.

[TXfootballboi!]

Speaking of alvarado and the ville! I can't wait for this year's game. It will be a great one

[Ville-D]

Speaking of alvarado and the ville! I can't wait for this year's game. It will be a great one

Ville by 21


>–––\/–––<
Re-Ville-D

[TXfootballboi!]

How can you say that? This alvarado team is no push over! I think they are better than last year's team

[hollywood]

Ville by 21


>–––\/–––<
Re-Ville-D


How can you say that? This alvarado team is no push over! I think they are better than last year's team

How can you say that? How do you know that Stephenville won't be better than last year's team?

Stephenville by at least 21 over Avarillo.

[TXfootballboi!]

Im not saying that stephenville hasn't got better! It's the ville! They will always be good no matter what! But this alvarado team for sure is already looking forward to this game

[hollywood]

Im not saying that stephenville hasn't got better! It's the ville! They will always be good no matter what! But this alvarado team for sure is already looking forward to this game

I bet they are! Probably have a picture of a dead yellow jacket with an arrow stuck in it!

Alvarado is a good program. Great coaching staff and fans. Fun to play. Will they have enough this season, maybe. My guess is no way. It'll be fun hosting this year though. I think it's home coming that week.

By the time district comes, the Ville will be cranking on all cylinders. This team will have more overall speed than last years. 4 of 5 OL return and Stidham at QB? A secret weapon will be polished by then. You are in the dark my friend.

[defense51]

I bet they are! Probably have a picture of a dead yellow jacket with an arrow stuck in it!


That's one of my favorite pictures! :)

[football8]

who is the secret weapon? 8?

[football8]

Kg>>>>>?

[BwdLion73]

I think that secret weapon will not be a secret after a few games. If things work out he will be discussed quite a bit around texas.

[TXfootballboi!]

How is the defense looking for the ville. I know yall have noah and mookie returning

[Ville-D]

who is the secret weapon? 8?

not sure the #.... Maybe 29?

[refereedoc]

I haven't seen his number yet, should know after tonight.

[toddg]

I bet they are! Probably have a picture of a dead yellow jacket with an arrow stuck in it!

Alvarado is a good program. Great coaching staff and fans. Fun to play. Will they have enough this season, maybe. My guess is no way. It'll be fun hosting this year though. I think it's home coming that week.

By the time district comes, the Ville will be cranking on all cylinders. This team will have more overall speed than last years. 4 of 5 OL return and Stidham at QB? A secret weapon will be polished by then. You are in the dark my friend.


who is the secret weapon? 8?


not sure the #.... Maybe 29?


I haven't seen his number yet, should know after tonight.


http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/13991/hehe.jpg (http://www.smileyvault.com/)