Do the Cowboys need another QB?

[Macarthur]

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/12/7/3738968/things-you-dont-hear-on-espn-tony-romo-rocks-december

It never ceases to amaze me that there are a large number of folks that think the Cowboys problems stem primarily from the QB position.

[ogg]

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/12/7/3738968/things-you-dont-hear-on-espn-tony-romo-rocks-december

It never ceases to amaze me that there are a large number of folks that think the Cowboys problems stem primarily from the QB position.

He’s playing good lately, not as many thrown picks. I now think Romo, Demarco, Dez, Jason and the rest of Dallas’s offense will win the next 4 games and basically make up for their banged up defense. Should make the playoffs. Murray being back is huge for Romo.

[SintonFan]

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/12/7/3738968/things-you-dont-hear-on-espn-tony-romo-rocks-december

It never ceases to amaze me that there are a large number of folks that think the Cowboys problems stem primarily from the QB position.

Good read. Tony seems to do well in December.

[defense51]

He’s playing good lately, not as many thrown picks. I now think Romo, Demarco, Dez, Jason and the rest of Dallas’s offense will win the next 4 games and basically make up for their banged up defense. Should make the playoffs. Murray being back is huge for Romo.It's amazing what a little bit of a running game can do to open up the offense.

[Macarthur]

Here's a stat you won't hear from ESPN or the NFL Network:

Romo has 17 4th quarter comebacks since 2006
Brees has 15
Roethlisberger has 15
Eli has 22
Brady has 13
Payton has 20

Because we all know, he's nothing but a choker.

[msu97]

according to bill belichick, stats are for losers...

but Romo is better than most people give him credit for...

[Macarthur]

according to bill belichick, stats are for losers...

but Romo is better than most people give him credit for...

I'm sure Romo would love to have Belichick as his coach the last 7 years! :)

[msu97]

who wouldn't? other than Eli...

[Buff42]

Hard to lead your team from your backside, on the turf.

The Bengals Defensive MVP yesterday was the Cowoys' O Line. Conversely, the Cowboys' Defensive MVP was the Bengals receiving corps.

Romo isn't the problem. He may be a symptom, but he's not the problem.

[Txbroadcaster]

Of the Cowboys’ seven wins, four have been fourth-quarter comebacks

[msu97]

I think you could put a college or high school o lineman in and get the same production that Free has given... how he keeps getting pt is beyond me...
Miles Austin has been too inconsistent... Dez is starting to show up... Witten is Witten and the return of Murray has been huge

[Txbroadcaster]

I think you could put a college or high school o lineman in and get the same production that Free has given... how he keeps getting pt is beyond me...
Miles Austin has been too inconsistent... Dez is starting to show up... Witten is Witten and the return of Murray has been huge

they sat Free down for stretches yesterday

[msu97]

they sat Free down for stretches yesterday

I know, but he continued to keep getting back in the game... their first TD drive he was not on the field and Dallas looked pretty good... then he kept finding his way back on the field...

[LionFan72]

As a professional sports team, the Cowboys need A quarterback, O-line, D-line, Head Coach, General Manager, and Owner. Facilities are fine.

[Buff42]

As a professional sports team, the Cowboys need A quarterback, O-line, D-line, Head Coach, General Manager, and Owner. Facilities are fine.

State your case for why the Cowboys need someone besides Romo.......

[Farmersfan]

I think 4th quarter comebacks is a little misleading stat guys. Any score at any point in the 4th that takes the Cowboys from behind to ahead is considered a "comeback" if the other team doesn't score again to take the lead back. The commentators actually stated during the game that Romo has had only like 6 game winning drives on his last possession of the game in his entire career. I think that is a much more telling stat about Romo's play in crunch time....................

[Macarthur]

I think 4th quarter comebacks is a little misleading stat guys. Any score at any point in the 4th that takes the Cowboys from behind to ahead is considered a "comeback" if the other team doesn't score again to take the lead back. The commentators actually stated during the game that Romo has had only like 6 game winning drives on his last possession of the game in his entire career. I think that is a much more telling stat about Romo's play in crunch time....................

I understand your point, but the stat isn't just for Romo. It's a stat for every QB. While you may not agree 100% with the criteria, it is an apples to apples thing.

There's also the issue of how many times Romo has put his team ahead in the 4th to only have that lead lost. I would be interested in that stat.

[GrTigers6]

I think 4th quarter comebacks is a little misleading stat guys. Any score at any point in the 4th that takes the Cowboys from behind to ahead is considered a "comeback" if the other team doesn't score again to take the lead back. The commentators actually stated during the game that Romo has had only like 6 game winning drives on his last possession of the game in his entire career. I think that is a much more telling stat about Romo's play in crunch time....................But how many game leading drives has he had only for the defense to give them right back up. I can remember at least 4-5 just last year alone!

[Buff42]

As a professional sports team, the Cowboys need A quarterback, O-line, D-line, Head Coach, General Manager, and Owner. Facilities are fine.

Crickets........

[Macarthur]

It's time for the narrative to change.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/captain-comeback-2012-nfl-rookie-qbs-make-more-history/20034/

Dallas Cowboys at Cincinnati Bengals

Winner: Dallas (20-19)
Type: 4QC/GWD
Largest Deficit: 9 (19-10)
Quarterback: Tony Romo (17-23 at 4QC, 18-25 overall 4Q/OT record - table)

Is this the one to start changing the Dallas narrative? Probably not, but the Cowboys sure did overcome a ton of adversity in Cincinnati to get this much-needed win.

Just a day following the news of the death of teammate Jerry Brown in a drunk-driving accident, which was caused by nose tackle Josh Brent, the Cowboys had to play a game in Cincinnati to keep up their playoff hopes.

Just as important of a game for the Bengals, it was understandable if Dallas came out a bit flat. They did not, taking a 3-0 lead on an opening-drive field goal, but the Bengals would score as well, and later led 19-10 to start the fourth quarter.

Sacks would set back each team’s first drive of the quarter. With 9:47 left, Tony Romo took over at his own 32. After some dinking and dunking, a holding penalty forced a 1st and 20. Romo found Kevin Ogletree open over the middle for a 23-yard gain.

Three plays later, Romo converted on 3rd and 10 when Miles Austin also was open for a 15-yard gain. Right after that Romo found Dez Bryant for a 27-yard touchdown with 6:35 left. Now it was a 19-17 game.

The Bengals stayed pass happy, with Andy Dalton dropping back all five times on the drive. They picked up one first down, but Dalton was sacked on 3rd and 4.

Now with 3:44 left, Romo had plenty of time at his own 28. Dallas came out with the running game, and DeMarco Murray would be the featured player on the drive. A 3rd and 5 was converted with Romo’s 9-yard pass to Jason Witten. Moving into Cincinnati territory, Murray touched the ball on four straight plays, including a 3-yard run on 3rd and 1.

On a 3rd and 5, Murray took the handoff and kept his balance for a 6-yard run. The drive lasted 12 plays, and Murray either carried or was the target of a pass on nine of the plays. He gained 32 of the 50 yards.

Content with running the clock down, Dallas gave Murray one more run for two yards before bringing out Dan Bailey with 0:04 to play.

Bailey made the 40-yard field goal with no time left, and Dallas had a stunning comeback, similar to the one Houston put on the Bengals last season in Week 14. It was even the same deficit (19-10) and final score (20-19).

Cincinnati has a history of losing such games, but the Cowboys do not have the history of winning such games. However, as we have looked at many times with Dallas, these wins happen. They just don’t happen when everyone is watching, and the next loss is always going to take precedent.

But with many eyes on Dallas for the tragedy this weekend, they came through with a very clutch comeback win to help their season’s prospects.

With the win, Tony Romo now has the Dallas Cowboys’ record for most fourth-quarter comeback wins with 17. That’s one more than Troy Aikman (16) and two more than Roger Staubach (15).

This is the second year in a row Romo has led four game-winning drives and comebacks, and his total of eight comebacks since 2011 ranks second only to Eli Manning (10) in that time span.




Most 4th Quarter Comeback Wins, 2011-12 Rk QB 4QC Wins

1 Eli Manning 10

2 Tony Romo 8

3 Matt Ryan 7

4T Alex Smith 6

4T Matthew Stafford 6


Not bad for a supposed choker. But that’s why we have facts.

[buff4ever]

Funny, as good as Romo must be, I wonder how the cowboys haven't managed to put together any better of seasons than they have. There are less talented teams with lesser qb's according to the stats we are forced to look at, that make it to the playoffs. Other than the Giants success, we are in one of the worse divisions in the past few years.

Romo supporters can always find something to blame for our short comings; the defense, the run game, the offensive line, the defensive coordinator, the one bad play call at the end of the game by Garrett, the one constant that I agree with JJ. My opinion is that this team needs a leader to serve as the glue, and they all look to Romo for some stupid reason, and he isn't the leader. So if no one else will step up and fill the leadership void, then cut our losses with this guy and lets get someone in here that will lead and can play. Let's now waste murray over the next few years while he is going to be really good.

I know this kinda post really frustrates Mac, but I get tired of reading the stats that favor Romo as a quality qb, and ignore the other stats, facts, or reasons for stats that would point out he isn't all that he is made out to be by his supporters. If there were to be a make believe scenario where all of the players in the league were standing on a football field and 10 coaches were going to pick players for their teams from the bunch. Romo would be that kid that thinks he is one of the best that slips to the end and someone finally says reluctantly......" I will take Romo (quietly with a short pause after) over Skelton." This would make him a possible third stream qb on that team that would be stuck holding a clip board.


Okay that make believe may be a little exagerated, but it isn't far from what would happen. They wouldn't want him, for all the reasons I feel are holding the cowboys back from stepping up their game to the next level. Toughness, cohesiveness, leadership capability, ability to relate and connect with teammates, and on and on and on.

[Txbroadcaster]

Funny, as good as Romo must be, I wonder how the cowboys haven't managed to put together any better of seasons than they have. There are less talented teams with lesser qb's according to the stats we are forced to look at, that make it to the playoffs. Other than the Giants success, we are in one of the worse divisions in the past few years.

Romo supporters can always find something to blame for our short comings; the defense, the run game, the offensive line, the defensive coordinator, the one bad play call at the end of the game by Garrett, the one constant that I agree with JJ. My opinion is that this team needs a leader to serve as the glue, and they all look to Romo for some stupid reason, and he isn't the leader. So if no one else will step up and fill the leadership void, then cut our losses with this guy and lets get someone in here that will lead and can play. Let's now waste murray over the next few years while he is going to be really good.

I know this kinda post really frustrates Mac, but I get tired of reading the stats that favor Romo as a quality qb, and ignore the other stats, facts, or reasons for stats that would point out he isn't all that he is made out to be by his supporters. If there were to be a make believe scenario where all of the players in the league were standing on a football field and 10 coaches were going to pick players for their teams from the bunch. Romo would be that kid that thinks he is one of the best that slips to the end and someone finally says reluctantly......" I will take Romo (quietly with a short pause after) over Skelton." This would make him a possible third stream qb on that team that would be stuck holding a clip board.


Okay that make believe may be a little exagerated, but it isn't far from what would happen. They wouldn't want him, for all the reasons I feel are holding the cowboys back from stepping up their game to the next level. Toughness, cohesiveness, leadership capability, ability to relate and connect with teammates, and on and on and on.


Ever thought maybe the team around Romo is just not that good?

[Macarthur]

I know this kinda post really frustrates Mac, but I get tired of reading the stats that favor Romo as a quality qb, and ignore the other stats, facts, or reasons for stats that would point out he isn't all that he is made out to be by his supporters.

Yeah, it's frustrating because you speak of stats, facts and reasons, yet you never present any of them. You simply make statements such as 'he's not a good leader'. What the hell does that mean?


If there were to be a make believe scenario where all of the players in the league were standing on a football field and 10 coaches were going to pick players for their teams from the bunch. Romo would be that kid that thinks he is one of the best that slips to the end and someone finally says reluctantly......" I will take Romo (quietly with a short pause after) over Skelton." This would make him a possible third stream qb on that team that would be stuck holding a clip board.


Okay that make believe may be a little exagerated, but it isn't far from what would happen. They wouldn't want him, for all the reasons I feel are holding the cowboys back from stepping up their game to the next level. Toughness, cohesiveness, leadership capability, ability to relate and connect with teammates, and on and on and on.

You actually admitted that your logic here is preposterous and then went right ahead with a dumb point.

One thing, you think Romo is not tough?

[buff4ever]

Yeah, it's frustrating because you speak of stats, facts and reasons, yet you never present any of them. You simply make statements such as 'he's not a good leader'. What the hell does that mean?



You actually admitted that your logic here is preposterous and then went right ahead with a dumb point.

One thing, you think Romo is not tough?

First off, don't take every post so serious mac, if I took some of your ridiculous efforts as legit points serious, I would have to quit reading them. I went along with the scenario to maybe make some people think about that and where non-cowboy fans or coaches would actually take him in a draft if they had to. I also thought the mental image of him anxiosly waiting to be drafted after many other qbs, some less productive than him in the stat category was kind of funny. But if you take everything so literal, you can't enjoy some of the humor along the way. If you are going to take that make believe so serious, when do you expect he would be picked.

Romo has a physical toughness to him, his expressions and actions wouldn't always make that believable, but he keeps playing through some of his abuse, I agree. If he would know when to throw the ball away instead of trying so hard to make miracle play, which is sometimes all he has I know, then he could avoid some of his sacks. His line isn't the best, but they aren't the worst. He takes a lot of sacks sitting in there a little long. His mental toughness is what I question more than physical.

On not posting stats, I respond with two things. First, I have a job, and get on here occasionally and make quick post, I don't have time to look up and research all day. Second, you guys come up with one-sided stats all day, they don't convince me that he is better than I think he is, usually they come across as sad efforts to keep blindly supporting a loser and live in denial that the cowboys actually need to rethink what they have done for years now.

[Macarthur]

On not posting stats, I respond with two things. First, I have a job, and get on here occasionally and make quick post, I don't have time to look up and research all day. Second, you guys come up with one-sided stats all day, they don't convince me that he is better than I think he is, usually they come across as sad efforts to keep blindly supporting a loser and live in denial that the cowboys actually need to rethink what they have done for years now.

So in other words, I got nothing. I just dont like him so he sucks!

[buff4ever]

So in other words, I got nothing. I just dont like him so he sucks!

His win loss stat and his playoff stat is all I need to back up my thoughts. Your side is the side that needs to put a spin on stats, and ignore some stats to back up your thoughts on him. Quit beins so literal mac and tell me, where you think non-cowboys would take him in a street draft as all players are standing available.

[Macarthur]

If he would know when to throw the ball away instead of trying so hard to make miracle play, which is sometimes all he has I know, then he could avoid some of his sacks.

I really dont know your point here.

His line isn't the best, but they aren't the worst. He takes a lot of sacks sitting in there a little long. His mental toughness is what I question more than physical.

Dude, the ciwboys OL is brutal. Tony avoids a ton of sacks. You do realize romo is on pace to be sacked more than any year in his career?

Let me ask you this. If bledsoe (any immobile QB) were playing behind this line, how many sacks would they have given up? Btw, hes been sacked 31 times.

[Macarthur]

His win loss stat and his playoff stat is all I need to back up my thoughts. Your side is the side that needs to put a spin on stats, and ignore some stats to back up your thoughts on him. Quit beins so literal mac and tell me, where you think non-cowboys would take him in a street draft as all players are standing available.



So your saying that it has no bearing if the team around him is any good. All that matters for a QB is playoffs?

And you want me to quit being so literal and litterally tell you where he woukd be picked in an imaginary street game? Do you even think about what you are saying before you type it?

[buff4ever]

So your saying that it has no bearing if the team around him is any good. All that matters for a QB is playoffs?

And you want me to quit being so literal and litterally tell you where he woukd be picked in an imaginary street game? Do you even think about what you are saying before you type it?



Okay, as you continue to skirt around the question, I will asnwer yours. Of course I consider the team around him. He has had different recievers over the years, some have moved on to have success, some came from elsewhere with some success, and some have come in highly touted. We have had different running backs over the years, current one maybe being the best when healthy, still to be detemined. We have had bad defenses, average defenses, and now before injuries I would say better than average across the league. We have had different coaches as well, some with success before, some with success after. Once again, the constant problem we can all agree on is JJ. However, putting JJ aside, how many of the above changes have to happen over and over and over again, until someone in the program with balls can stand up and say "ROMO isn't getting it done for the cowboys, we have tried different things, we just aren't able to put it togehter." Something is missing with Romo, I for one can no longer ignore my long time fear with him, and continue to blame different personnel every year.

So your response to frustration is obviously to just frustrate back, or else you don't want to make a fool out of yourself in answering my question. You ultimately know deep down that players and coaches around the league are not fooled by his stats like you are. You have to admit, think about that cheesy grin we all talk about turning into a look of disbelief as qb after qb are picked and no one wants poor romo on their team, you have seen it growing up in neighbor hood pickems for football, basketball, kickball, or baseball. Or were you that kid, and you don't want to talk about it, so you keep throwing me the same questions you throw out all the time to redirect attention to points that don't prove he is anything better than what he is.

[Macarthur]

Okay, as you continue to skirt around the question, I will asnwer yours. Of course I consider the team around him. He has had different recievers over the years, some have moved on to have success, some came from elsewhere with some success, and some have come in highly touted.

Who? He's made pretty good WRs out of some guys that came out of nowhere. Austin and Robinson come to mind.


We have had different running backs over the years, current one maybe being the best when healthy, still to be detemined.

What's the point with this? Who has gone on to have great success without Romo?


We have had bad defenses, average defenses, and now before injuries I would say better than average across the league.

Yep, I would agree. Of course, bad defenses and average defenses could not contribute to their lack of success in the playoffs which is your hold grail for QBs. You see how you kinda defeated your own argument there....


We have had different coaches as well, some with success before, some with success after.

Who? Wade? What succes has Wade had as a HC? What success did JG have before being Romo's OC?


Once again, the constant problem we can all agree on is JJ. However, putting JJ aside,

Ahhh...now we're getting somewhere but it's awesome how quickly you just move on past this. Why is it that organizations like Pitt, Philly, NY, NE have had success with diff personnel? It's because they have a wonderfully structured organization.

I would argue that during Romo's tenure, he has had an organization that has done a pathetic job of drafting. Has had numerous FA signings that have not only failed, but hampered the organization from improvment. Name another top QB that has had such an inept organization to support him? Please, name one.


how many of the above changes have to happen over and over and over again, until someone in the program with balls can stand up and say "ROMO isn't getting it done for the cowboys, we have tried different things, we just aren't able to put it togehter." Something is missing with Romo, I for one can no longer ignore my long time fear with him, and continue to blame different personnel every year.

What does 'getting it done' mean? What more can a guy do that has a career QB rating that is top 5 EVER!!!




So your response to frustration is obviously to just frustrate back, or else you don't want to make a fool out of yourself in answering my question. You ultimately know deep down that players and coaches around the league are not fooled by his stats like you are. You have to admit, think about that cheesy grin we all talk about turning into a look of disbelief as qb after qb are picked and no one wants poor romo on their team, you have seen it growing up in neighbor hood pickems for football, basketball, kickball, or baseball. Or were you that kid, and you don't want to talk about it, so you keep throwing me the same questions you throw out all the time to redirect attention to points that don't prove he is anything better than what he is.

It's a dumb game, but I'll play. I would think that since QBs are very important, he would be picked somewhere between 6 and 12 since I think that's about where he falls in the top QBs in the league.

[Txbroadcaster]

Okay, as you continue to skirt around the question, I will asnwer yours. Of course I consider the team around him. He has had different recievers over the years, some have moved on to have success, some came from elsewhere with some success, and some have come in highly touted. We have had different running backs over the years, current one maybe being the best when healthy, still to be detemined. We have had bad defenses, average defenses, and now before injuries I would say better than average across the league. We have had different coaches as well, some with success before, some with success after. Once again, the constant problem we can all agree on is JJ. However, putting JJ aside, how many of the above changes have to happen over and over and over again, until someone in the program with balls can stand up and say "ROMO isn't getting it done for the cowboys, we have tried different things, we just aren't able to put it togehter." Something is missing with Romo, I for one can no longer ignore my long time fear with him, and continue to blame different personnel every year.

So your response to frustration is obviously to just frustrate back, or else you don't want to make a fool out of yourself in answering my question. You ultimately know deep down that players and coaches around the league are not fooled by his stats like you are. You have to admit, think about that cheesy grin we all talk about turning into a look of disbelief as qb after qb are picked and no one wants poor romo on their team, you have seen it growing up in neighbor hood pickems for football, basketball, kickball, or baseball. Or were you that kid, and you don't want to talk about it, so you keep throwing me the same questions you throw out all the time to redirect attention to points that don't prove he is anything better than what he is.

name a WR who left and had success somewhere else since Romo was QB...name a HC who has had success who left since Romo was the QB

again..you go to things like how he smiles to decide if he is good or not

[Emerson1]

Romo wears his hat backwards. He sucks.

[Eagle 1]

I guess some people are happy with a qb that breaks records.
Me personally, I want one that can get his team a ring.
Remind me of that when Tony wins a Super Bowl.
Until then I won't hold my breath.

[Macarthur]

I guess some people are happy with a qb that breaks records.
Me personally, I want one that can get his team a ring.
Remind me of that when Tony wins a Super Bowl.
Until then I won't hold my breath.

So you think Tom Brady on the Cowboys equals a ring?

[Old Tiger]

Here's a stat you won't hear from ESPN or the NFL Network:

Romo has 17 4th quarter comebacks since 2006
Brees has 15
Roethlisberger has 15
Eli has 22
Brady has 13
Payton has 20

Because we all know, he's nothing but a choker.How has he fared against the best teams? Playoffs?

[buff4ever]

6 - 12 is where a romo supporter would pick him. Now I ask, where do you think that non-cowboy fans, would pick Romo?

[Old Tiger]

My top 5 QB's


1. Brady
2. P Manning
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. E Manning
5. Big Ben

[msu97]

I guess some people are happy with a qb that breaks records.
Me personally, I want one that can get his team a ring.
Remind me of that when Tony wins a Super Bowl.
Until then I won't hold my breath.
I would say that Super Bowl rings are over valued at qb... would you really want Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, or Mark Rypien as your qb over Dan Marino, Dan Fouts or Jim Kelley?

it is a team game... Archie Manning was a good qb, but he was stuck in New Orleans... this is who Tony Romo reminds me of... great talent with teams that just do not mesh... kind of bad luck... you get to be starting qb for the Cowboys with an oline that would not start for most colleges...

[buff4ever]

msu has 199 dumb post on here since sept 2011, this is one of them. In order for Romo to be good, it has been proven over the years that everyone around him has to be good. We have to give him better than average everything to get him to put it all together. He has proven that he can't work with better than average this and average this and below average this. Teams make sacrifices and decisions when drafting players, unfortunately the cowboys are just like every other team in the nfl, they can't get the best of every position coming out of college, so that romo can put togher a solid season from start to finish.

[Emerson1]

Outside of tight end and QB the Cowboys have not been better then average at any position the last 5 years.

[msu97]

msu has 199 dumb post on here since sept 2011, this is one of them. In order for Romo to be good, it has been proven over the years that everyone around him has to be good. We have to give him better than average everything to get him to put it all together. He has proven that he can't work with better than average this and average this and below average this. Teams make sacrifices and decisions when drafting players, unfortunately the cowboys are just like every other team in the nfl, they can't get the best of every position coming out of college, so that romo can put togher a solid season from start to finish.
that's fine... you can have Dilfer and Timmy Smith and I will take Marino and Barry Sanders... I can be dumb with my posts... still add more quality than you

[Farmersfan]

Most 4th Quarter Comeback Wins, 2011-12 Rk QB 4QC Wins

1 Eli Manning 10

2 Tony Romo 8

3 Matt Ryan 7

4T Alex Smith 6

4T Matthew Stafford 6


Not bad for a supposed choker. But that’s why we have facts.



This is really just another stupid stat that doesn't show the real story. The number of times they come from behind is directly related to the number of times they are behind. Romo is only 2 behind Manning and Manning is known as the comeback artist and Romo is known as the choker. Why is that? Do you suppose it could be because of the difference in the number of times these guys FAIL to come from behind when they get the chance? You present this stat as a validation for Romo but fail to tell us if Romo took 20 tries to get his 8 come from behind wins and Eli got his 10 in just 12 tries. You get the point.



Win/Loss for that same time frame:

Eli Manning: 17-12 (with a SB win. Has a reputation of playing poorly until crunchtime and then turning it on)
Tony Romo: 15-14
Matt Ryan: 21-8
Alex Smith: 19-5
Matt Stafford: 14-15 (nobody is calling Matt Stafford clutch or elite)

[Farmersfan]

Ever thought maybe the team around Romo is just not that good?


This season it is true the team around Romo has not been playing very good. But historically Romo has had a top 5 team around him most season's and has managed a single playoff win. At the very least after you pick them apart with nonsense stats and rationalizations the Cowboys from 06' thru 10' were a top 10 team.

[Farmersfan]

So you think Tom Brady on the Cowboys equals a ring?



Tom Brady on the Cowboys the last 7 seasons certainly equals a ring. Maybe 2! Tom Brady on this Cowboy's team equals a NFC East championship and good shot a play off win. Even with the injuries. Tom Brady would make this team 4 wins better. Did you notice how Brady made the dynamic pass rush of the Texans his b**** last night? I saw Brady complete 35 yard pinpoint passes to streaking receivers a half of a second before he got his arse handed to him by the rush. Romo would have never seen the receiver and would have been bailing on the play a long, long time before Brady completed some of those amazing passes. The difference between the intangibles of Brady and the intangibiles of Romo is huge. HUGE!

And all you Romosexulas need to stop with the passer rating crap. The passer ratings as they exist now favors the current NFL far more than it favors the past. 7 out of the top 10 are still playing in the NFL right now. In the top 20 we have such NFL greats as Chad Pennington, Daunte Culpepper, Philip Rivers, Matt Schaub, Matt Ryan, Jeff Garcia, Joe Flacco and Carson Palmer. Any one of these names in the top 20 of all times invalidates this rating system.

[Farmersfan]

6 - 12 is where a romo supporter would pick him. Now I ask, where do you think that non-cowboy fans, would pick Romo?



I know the rest of the NFL players called Romo the second most overrated player in the entire NFL. Not once, but TWICE!!!!!

[buff4ever]

I know the rest of the NFL players called Romo the second most overrated player in the entire NFL. Not once, but TWICE!!!!!

The only point to my make believe neighborhood pickem. I knew that you knew what others thought of romo, I was trying to get everyone else on here to think about it for a second. The thing with mac, especially when I come with my realistic opinion, he just wants to discredit anything with particular stats, he won't answer a more telling question unless he can use more vague stats.

I always feel like I bring realistic vague opiones to his picked through misleading vague stats. He thinks his picked through semi-irrelevent stats beat realistic (based on only stats that matter) opinions that have been formed over years. Hey, I was falsely excited when romo came on the scene just like most were. I am just one that jumped off that band-waggon a long time ago. I don't personally think those that stay on the band-waggon till the end will ever be able to give the ultimate "I told you so". And I don't want to here any of this look at the great qbs that never got a ring crap. There are some, that is going to happen, they were never surrounded by the talent romo has been over the years, and you also never heard as much over-rated talk around the league with Marino or any of the others as you do romo.

[Macarthur]

But historically Romo has had a top 5 team around him most season's and has managed a single playoff win.

Absolute nonsense. That is complete load of garbage.


Tom Brady on the Cowboys the last 7 seasons certainly equals a ring.

You are insane.

[Farmersfan]

Absolute nonsense. That is complete load of garbage.



You are insane.





Romo played on a team (2007) that put the NFL record number of players in the Pro Bowl. Your only recourse in this FACT is to try to discredit the Pro Bowl like TXB has always tried to do. Yet the facts still remain that all the other players, coaches and fans voted 11 players off 1 team as a top 3 player in the entire NFL at their position. FACT


The only season Romo managed a playoff win was 09' when he had the #2 ranked defense in the NFL and had the #2 offense in the NFL in yardage gained but they couldn't put the ball in the endzone. Of course there are 1000s of excuses as to why they couldn't score TDs even though they were the second best team in the NFL moving the ball outside the 20s. I think if you look at that team with reason and logic you will see that a big reason for it was the lack of execution by ROMO in the redzone. Of course some on here have claimed they didn't do better that year because that #2 ranked defense didn't get enough turnovers or score enough points.

[Macarthur]

We've been over that 07 game countless times. Romo played well enough to win that game. If his WR doesn't make, not one, but two huge errors they win that game.

Laying that Minn game at his feet when he was sacked like 7 times just again shows how ridiculous your position is.

[Farmersfan]

You are insane.


Tom Brady went to the Superbowl with these ratings:

01: #19 Offense #8 Defense
03: #17 offense, #26 Defense
04: #7 offense, #24 Defense
08: #5 offense, #23 Defense
11: #2 offense, #2 Defense


I think you would be surprised at how many season's the Cowboys were higher rated in either category or even both categories. Brady elevated everyone around him and went to the Superbowl in these years. He won the Superbowl in 01, 03 and 04 without a top 5 offense or defense....... In Dallas we are expecting them to give Romo a #1 rated defense and offense before we judge him. Nonsense. The QB must elevate the team around him to get them over the hump. Believe it or not if they put enough talent around the QB even a Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or Jeff Hostetler can win it.

[Farmersfan]

We've been over that 07 game countless times. Romo played well enough to win that game. If his WR doesn't make, not one, but two huge errors they win that game.

Laying that Minn game at his feet when he was sacked like 7 times just again shows how ridiculous your position is.



The Dallas offense was ranked #3 that season and the Saints were ranked #4. The next week the Saints faced that very same defensive rush from the Vikings and Brees handled it and beat it. You can make excuses until you are blue in the face but the facts are Romo didn't handle the pass rush of the Vikings at all that day. They smelled blood in the water and the route was on late in the game. Romo did not make them pay for their all out jailbreak pass rushes like Brees did the following week. Of course you can blame the coach, the owner and every other player on the field if you want. Some of us know the truth.

[Farmersfan]

The Dallas offense was ranked #3 that season and the Saints were ranked #4. The next week the Saints faced that very same defensive rush from the Vikings and Brees handled it and beat it. You can make excuses until you are blue in the face but the facts are Romo didn't handle the pass rush of the Vikings at all that day. They smelled blood in the water and the route was on late in the game. Romo did not make them pay for their all out jailbreak pass rushes like Brees did the following week. Of course you can blame the coach, the owner and every other player on the field if you want. Some of us know the truth.


Sorry! mixed up years. In 09' the Saints were #1 and the Cowboys were #2 in overall offense. The Saints O-line was ranked #4 and the Cowboys O-line was ranked #15. But what I said still stands.

[Farmersfan]

We've been over that 07 game countless times. Romo played well enough to win that game. If his WR doesn't make, not one, but two huge errors they win that game.

.




Do you know what this is? This is excuse making at it's highest point. Of course you are aware that saying "He played well enough to win if" is something that could be applied to almost every single failed attempt by any player in any sport? Tom Brady has had receivers drop passes, RBs fumble balls, O-lines give up sacks and all those things you use to make excuses for Romo. Yet he manages to overcome them on a consistent basis just like most good QBs do. This is all I have ever said. Romo seems to not be able to overcome mistakes by others and especially mistakes he makes himself. I want to believe in Tony Romo but what I have seen from him prevents me from doing so. I hope I have been wrong all this time because that means Romo will have proven me wrong and the Cowboys will have success. Otherwise the proof is in the mudding.
Speaking of pudding! Happy Holidays....... :D

[Macarthur]

Do you know what this is? This is excuse making at it's highest point. Of course you are aware that saying "He played well enough to win if" is something that could be applied to almost every single failed attempt by any player in any sport?

This gets tiresome. It's clear we are miles apart in how we watch football.

The last think I will say is to address the 'played well enough to win'. It is not excuse making. For example:
Ben won SB XL with a 22.6 rating
Elway won SB XXXII with a 51.9 rating
Eli won an NFC Championship with a 72 passer rating and barely 50% comp %

The point I'm trying to make is that ratings, and team rankings and all are nice and mean something, they don't mean everything. In fact, remember that NY defense was raked something like 28th when they won that SB. Are you telling me that you think the 07 Dallas defense was better simply because they were ranked higher? In fact, they were ranked MUCH higher. I think we would both agree that the rankings being done by yardage is not the best interpretation of how good a defense is. If memory serves, the year the Packers won the SB, their defense was ranked very low because of yardage. However, they forced a ton of turnovers.


Here's a good article that makes good points.

http://www.rrstar.com/blogs/matttrowbridge/x364057148/Quarterbacks-should-not-be-defined-by-winning-or-stats

[Inmateboss]

This gets tiresome. It's clear we are miles apart in how we watch football.

The last think I will say is to address the 'played well enough to win'. It is not excuse making. For example:
Ben won SB XL with a 22.6 rating
Elway won SB XXXII with a 51.9 rating
Eli won an NFC Championship with a 72 passer rating and barely 50% comp %

The point I'm trying to make is that ratings, and team rankings and all are nice and mean something, they don't mean everything. In fact, remember that NY defense was raked something like 28th when they won that SB. Are you telling me that you think the 07 Dallas defense was better simply because they were ranked higher? In fact, they were ranked MUCH higher. I think we would both agree that the rankings being done by yardage is not the best interpretation of how good a defense is. If memory serves, the year the Packers won the SB, their defense was ranked very low because of yardage. However, they forced a ton of turnovers.


Here's a good article that makes good points.

http://www.rrstar.com/blogs/matttrowbridge/x364057148/Quarterbacks-should-not-be-defined-by-winning-or-stats

Well crap!!! I have to agree with you! As bad as the cowboys have played its not all on ROMO! Lots of things have to be in place for wins in big games to happen!! Don't get me wrong I love to talk crap about Romo, but he can't win a game or lose a game by himself!!! But lord he has tried!!! Both!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Farmersfan]

This gets tiresome. It's clear we are miles apart in how we watch football.

The last think I will say is to address the 'played well enough to win'. It is not excuse making. For example:
Ben won SB XL with a 22.6 rating
Elway won SB XXXII with a 51.9 rating
Eli won an NFC Championship with a 72 passer rating and barely 50% comp %

The point I'm trying to make is that ratings, and team rankings and all are nice and mean something, they don't mean everything. In fact, remember that NY defense was raked something like 28th when they won that SB. Are you telling me that you think the 07 Dallas defense was better simply because they were ranked higher? In fact, they were ranked MUCH higher. I think we would both agree that the rankings being done by yardage is not the best interpretation of how good a defense is. If memory serves, the year the Packers won the SB, their defense was ranked very low because of yardage. However, they forced a ton of turnovers.


Here's a good article that makes good points.

http://www.rrstar.com/blogs/matttrowbridge/x364057148/Quarterbacks-should-not-be-defined-by-winning-or-stats




I don't disagree with this Mac! But it seems like to me you use the positive ratings that work for Romo to make your points and try to discount the negative ones that disprove your point. I am the one that is constantly saying you have to "read between the lines" when it comes to Romo. I am the one who says Romo's failures are more in the intangibles department and not simply X's and O's. As far as the excuse making comment I completely disagree. It is an excuse to say Romo played well enough to win if everybody else had elevated their game or not made any mistakes when the facts are the QB made the most mistakes in ANY game. The QB gets 60+ opportunites for good or bad plays in a normal football game. Sometimes even more. Even a running play's success is in a large part due to the actions or reads of the QB. Ever hear Romo (or any other QB) point to a defensive player and yell "#35 is the Mike"! Romo does it all the time. What he is doing is setting up the center of the blocking scheme. The Mike is the player that anchors all other blocking assignments. The reference point if you will. All other players know then which player is the Wil and which is the Sam and so forth. What if Romo is wrong? From that single action Romo could set up the entire offense for failure on a run play because he has them blocking the wrong people based on the play they are running. But not only that! The QB sets up the run with his ability to pass. I've watched teams put 8 or 9 men in the box to stop the Cowboy run this season and Romo still can't complete a pass against that. If the QB can't force the LB's to be aware of the pass then the run is destined to fail. Romo is very good at some things. But in my opinion he isn't very good at enough things to win with just a good or average team behind him. It would require a GREAT team before Romo could lead them to a title. But pretty much any average QB could do that with a Great team around them.

[Inmateboss]

I don't disagree with this Mac! But it seems like to me you use the positive ratings that work for Romo to make your points and try to discount the negative ones that disprove your point. I am the one that is constantly saying you have to "read between the lines" when it comes to Romo. I am the one who says Romo's failures are more in the intangibles department and not simply X's and O's. As far as the excuse making comment I completely disagree. It is an excuse to say Romo played well enough to win if everybody else had elevated their game or not made any mistakes when the facts are the QB made the most mistakes in ANY game. The QB gets 60+ opportunites for good or bad plays in a normal football game. Sometimes even more. Even a running play's success is in a large part due to the actions or reads of the QB. Ever hear Romo (or any other QB) point to a defensive player and yell "#35 is the Mike"! Romo does it all the time. What he is doing is setting up the center of the blocking scheme. The Mike is the player that anchors all other blocking assignments. The reference point if you will. All other players know then which player is the Wil and which is the Sam and so forth. What if Romo is wrong? From that single action Romo could set up the entire offense for failure on a run play because he has them blocking the wrong people based on the play they are running. But not only that! The QB sets up the run with his ability to pass. I've watched teams put 8 or 9 men in the box to stop the Cowboy run this season and Romo still can't complete a pass against that. If the QB can't force the LB's to be aware of the pass then the run is destined to fail. Romo is very good at some things. But in my opinion he isn't very good at enough things to win with just a good or average team behind him. It would require a GREAT team before Romo could lead them to a title. But pretty much any average QB could do that with a Great team around them.

He gotcha there Mac!!! Someone's been paying attention!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[buff4ever]

I understand this year, things don't seem to be lined up across the board. The defesne is playing better, however the injuries are hitting a little hard, they are still holding most opponents to respectable points. The line is not getting the job done, and murray being hurt for what ? 6 games didn't help either.

But the point is that over the years Romo has had ample opportunities with very quality teams and has not put it together or as single handily ruined what he put together in crunch time. For excuse makers in favor of romo to complain that we don't have the BEST defense, the BEST line, the BEST running backs, or the BEST receivers; they are proving our very point that Romo isn't as good as his rating or stats show. Because by complaining about these things not being perfect, you are admitting that your qb isn't as good as other successful qb's around the league, and can't make up for weaknesses here or there.

Let's say that Romo is good at certain things, because he is. It is just like many quality head coaches in the NFL and College level, that do most things right and coach well enough to be competitive and win enough to show you are a good coach, but can't seem to put the final pieces together to finish the successful year or years that the program heads or fans expect. What generally happens in this situation, their management tells them, "?insert name?, thank you for all that you have done, it has been great, but it is time for the program to take a different direction." I have wanted the cowboys to do this for several years, but they like his fans on here, keep making excuses for him, and keep changing personnel around him, and we keep getting the same result......competitive, almost good enough, but not quite there.

[Farmersfan]

I understand this year, things don't seem to be lined up across the board. The defesne is playing better, however the injuries are hitting a little hard, they are still holding most opponents to respectable points. The line is not getting the job done, and murray being hurt for what ? 6 games didn't help either.

But the point is that over the years Romo has had ample opportunities with very quality teams and has not put it together or as single handily ruined what he put together in crunch time. For excuse makers in favor of romo to complain that we don't have the BEST defense, the BEST line, the BEST running backs, or the BEST receivers; they are proving our very point that Romo isn't as good as his rating or stats show. Because by complaining about these things not being perfect, you are admitting that your qb isn't as good as other successful qb's around the league, and can't make up for weaknesses here or there.

Let's say that Romo is good at certain things, because he is. It is just like many quality head coaches in the NFL and College level, that do most things right and coach well enough to be competitive and win enough to show you are a good coach, but can't seem to put the final pieces together to finish the successful year or years that the program heads or fans expect. What generally happens in this situation, their management tells them, "?insert name?, thank you for all that you have done, it has been great, but it is time for the program to take a different direction." I have wanted the cowboys to do this for several years, but they like his fans on here, keep making excuses for him, and keep changing personnel around him, and we keep getting the same result......competitive, almost good enough, but not quite there.



I would like for them to trade Romo if only so we can see once and for all who has been correct all this time. What limited success Romo has had is because of the talent around him in my opinion. The talent is down this season and Romo has a season QB rating in the 70's. If they traded Romo to a great team I'm positive that team would go downhill. If they traded Romo to a poor team I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make a difference........

[Eagle 1]

I don't disagree with this Mac! But it seems like to me you use the positive ratings that work for Romo to make your points and try to discount the negative ones that disprove your point.

That completely sums it up right there. Not just for Mac, but ALL Romo fans.
The ONLY stat that matters is the W.

[Macarthur]

I don't disagree with this Mac! But it seems like to me you use the positive ratings that work for Romo to make your points and try to discount the negative ones that disprove your point. I am the one that is constantly saying you have to "read between the lines" when it comes to Romo. I am the one who says Romo's failures are more in the intangibles department and not simply X's and O's.

What do these sentences mean together? There's several contradictory statments in this.


As far as the excuse making comment I completely disagree. It is an excuse to say Romo played well enough to win if everybody else had elevated their game or not made any mistakes when the facts are the QB made the most mistakes in ANY game. The QB gets 60+ opportunites for good or bad plays in a normal football game. Sometimes even more. Even a running play's success is in a large part due to the actions or reads of the QB. Ever hear Romo (or any other QB) point to a defensive player and yell "#35 is the Mike"! Romo does it all the time. What he is doing is setting up the center of the blocking scheme. The Mike is the player that anchors all other blocking assignments. The reference point if you will. All other players know then which player is the Wil and which is the Sam and so forth. What if Romo is wrong? From that single action Romo could set up the entire offense for failure on a run play because he has them blocking the wrong people based on the play they are running. But not only that! The QB sets up the run with his ability to pass. I've watched teams put 8 or 9 men in the box to stop the Cowboy run this season and Romo still can't complete a pass against that. If the QB can't force the LB's to be aware of the pass then the run is destined to fail. Romo is very good at some things. But in my opinion he isn't very good at enough things to win with just a good or average team behind him. It would require a GREAT team before Romo could lead them to a title. But pretty much any average QB could do that with a Great team around them.

We've gone over this stuff a gillion times. Unless you have coaches film and know what plays are called, there is no possible way for you or I to know if Romo makes these types of mistakes on a regular basis. I simply can't believe that a guy that has a career 95 passer rating can't do the basics well, which is what you're talking about here.

[Macarthur]

But the point is that over the years Romo has had ample opportunities with very quality teams and has not put it together or as single handily ruined what he put together in crunch time. For excuse makers in favor of romo to complain that we don't have the BEST defense, the BEST line, the BEST running backs, or the BEST receivers; they are proving our very point that Romo isn't as good as his rating or stats show.

Strawman. We simply can not discuss the issue with any level of intelligence unless you stop doing thigns like this. NO ONE has ever said this.

[Macarthur]

I would like for them to trade Romo if only so we can see once and for all who has been correct all this time. What limited success Romo has had is because of the talent around him in my opinion. The talent is down this season and Romo has a season QB rating in the 70's. If they traded Romo to a great team I'm positive that team would go downhill. If they traded Romo to a poor team I'm pretty sure he wouldn't make a difference........

See, I think you are simply off base in your football analysis.

This is just factually incorrect. Romo's QB rating is 88.5. Romo has 16 INTs this year. 9 of those were in two games. Romo had very bad games, but you do realize that outside of those two games, he has a QB rating well over 100! No running game and an OL where he's running for his life most of the game.

What would the perception of this season be if Dez's fingernail was not out of bounds and Bailey doesn't miss the FG in Balt by less than 2 feet? This team would be 9-4 and have essentially a 2 game lead over NY due to tie breakers. The reason I bring this up is to point out that, frankly, luck plays a big part in the equation. With certainly swings of luck teams can be 10-6 or 6-10 letterally, and that does not take into account how well or poorly particular guys are playing - just the way the ball bounces. I keep goign back to Eli because he has such a reputation of being clutch, and he is to a certain extent. However, the first SB, he had a very pedestrian game and at the end basically throws up a prayer and David Tyree pins the ball against his helmet, they kick the FG and Eli is clutch. Really?

[buff4ever]

Strawman. We simply can not discuss the issue with any level of intelligence unless you stop doing thigns like this. NO ONE has ever said this.

It is exactly what you guys are saying if you step back and look at it over the last few years. We have heard you complain about a specific position as an excuse for each year. Last year it was defense, year before it was running backs, now it is line. If it isn't all coming from you, then it is coming from other supporters of romo's on here. I hear it in discussion about romo away from the board too. It is funny to me how much controversy there is around romo and the label of choke artist and overrated, that his supporters stand behind their statements that it is everyone else's fault. There are cowboy fans that hate him, there are cowboy fans that like him, and there are cowboy fans that act like he is better than he is; hence the overrated; but you won't find many non-cowboy fans that think he is worth a dern. Maybe some here or there that strictly look at numbers, but if they watch him on a normal basis; but there aren't many out there that support him from the outside.

[Macarthur]

I think you overrate how fans of other teams view romo. Once you get past fans just hating him because hes the QB of a rival, I think you woukd find quite a few fans that would trade their guy for romo in a heartbeat.

[IndianFan2012]

http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2012/12/7/3738968/things-you-dont-hear-on-espn-tony-romo-rocks-december

It never ceases to amaze me that there are a large number of folks that think the Cowboys problems stem primarily from the QB position.

RIGHT?! He is a great QB. They need to stop brushing over all his accomplishments and pay attention to the crap O line he has.

[ethsfbnut]

See, I think you are simply off base in your football analysis.

This is just factually incorrect. Romo's QB rating is 88.5. Romo has 16 INTs this year. 9 of those were in two games. Romo had very bad games, but you do realize that outside of those two games, he has a QB rating well over 100! No running game and an OL where he's running for his life most of the game.

What would the perception of this season be if Dez's fingernail was not out of bounds and Bailey doesn't miss the FG in Balt by less than 2 feet? This team would be 9-4 and have essentially a 2 game lead over NY due to tie breakers. The reason I bring this up is to point out that, frankly, luck plays a big part in the equation. With certainly swings of luck teams can be 10-6 or 6-10 letterally, and that does not take into account how well or poorly particular guys are playing - just the way the ball bounces. I keep goign back to Eli because he has such a reputation of being clutch, and he is to a certain extent. However, the first SB, he had a very pedestrian game and at the end basically throws up a prayer and David Tyree pins the ball against his helmet, they kick the FG and Eli is clutch. Really?

Good points, Mac. There are a lot of teams that would love to have Romo. Problem with Cowboys? GM.

[Farmersfan]

We've gone over this stuff a gillion times. Unless you have coaches film and know what plays are called, there is no possible way for you or I to know if Romo makes these types of mistakes on a regular basis. I simply can't believe that a guy that has a career 95 passer rating can't do the basics well, which is what you're talking about here.



I'm not sure why you keep saying this Mac! This doesn't mean anything. You are giving him the benefit of a doubt based on the fact that you don't know because you support him and I am not giving him this benefit because of the results on the football field. The only reason I bring these things up in these conversations is because you keep quoting his career 95 QB rating and keep placing the blame for his lack of success on everybody but him. A career 95 QB rating should have a much, much, much better winning record than Romo has. There is a reason why Romo can't get over the hump. We all know the team around him has problems and always has. But every NFL team has the same problems. Other elite QBs manage to overcome this. If only a couple of times in an entire career. I have not seen anything that indicates that Romo is able to overcome the normal NFL obstacles that a NFL QB faces. Not yet anyway!

[Macarthur]

I'm not sure why you keep saying this Mac! This doesn't mean anything. You are giving him the benefit of a doubt based on the fact that you don't know because you support him and I am not giving him this benefit because of the results on the football field. The only reason I bring these things up in these conversations is because you keep quoting his career 95 QB rating and keep placing the blame for his lack of success on everybody but him.

Again, here we got with the strawman stuff. I have never said Romo shares no blame in some of the teams struggles. Romo has had some stinker games. But guess what? EVERY QB has bad ones. Go through Eli's game logs in the last couple of years and look at some of the truly awful games he's mixed in there.

Here is the difference between me and you. You hold everyother QB in the league to a different standard than Romo.



A career 95 QB rating should have a much, much, much better winning record than Romo has. There is a reason why Romo can't get over the hump. We all know the team around him has problems and always has. But every NFL team has the same problems. Other elite QBs manage to overcome this. If only a couple of times in an entire career. I have not seen anything that indicates that Romo is able to overcome the normal NFL obstacles that a NFL QB faces. Not yet anyway!

I agree with some of what you've said here except for the last sentence.

I think Romo has been saddled for most of his career with one of the most inept organizations in all of pro football. They had a really good year in 2007 and I think that fooled many into thinking this team was more talented than what they really are. For the last several years, this team has had some good players at a few positions, but the overall talent on this roster has been very poor. Without Romo, I truly believe this team is about a 4 win team.

And let me address your point about 'other elite QBs'. First, no one on here is arguing that Romo is Brady, Manning or even Rodgers. All I've ever argued is that he is a very good QB that is more than capable of leading a team to a SB. But as with any of these guys that fall into this same category (Eli, Rivers, Ben, Ryan, and guys of that nature) as Romo, there has to be other strong pieces in place to have the ultimate success. With guys like Eli and Ben, they have had elite defenses to assist them. Guys like Ryan, Rivers and Romo have not had that right mix yet in their career.

[Farmersfan]

See, I think you are simply off base in your football analysis.

This is just factually incorrect. Romo's QB rating is 88.5. Romo has 16 INTs this year. 9 of those were in two games. Romo had very bad games, but you do realize that outside of those two games, he has a QB rating well over 100! No running game and an OL where he's running for his life most of the game.

What would the perception of this season be if Dez's fingernail was not out of bounds and Bailey doesn't miss the FG in Balt by less than 2 feet? This team would be 9-4 and have essentially a 2 game lead over NY due to tie breakers. The reason I bring this up is to point out that, frankly, luck plays a big part in the equation. With certainly swings of luck teams can be 10-6 or 6-10 letterally, and that does not take into account how well or poorly particular guys are playing - just the way the ball bounces. I keep goign back to Eli because he has such a reputation of being clutch, and he is to a certain extent. However, the first SB, he had a very pedestrian game and at the end basically throws up a prayer and David Tyree pins the ball against his helmet, they kick the FG and Eli is clutch. Really?






You use 2 mistakes, a Dez Bryant fingertip miss on a TD and a barely missed Bailey FG to make your point and to emphasize how things could be completely different. This is certainly a true statement. But what you are failing to do is examine the dozens and dozens of Romo near misses and failures that also would have meant the difference in this season. You accept a incomplete pass by Romo as just a part of the game! And failing to complete a pass on 40% of his attempts certainly is a part of the game. A 60% to 70% completion ratio is a good ratio in the NFL. But which 40% he fails on is up for scrutiny. If Bailey makes that FG you are talking about but misses another one at some other point that doesn't cost them the game you aren't even talking about it. Yet Romo missed several opportunities on that very same drive to either get Bailey closer or to score a TD to take Bailey completely out of the equation. You excuse these multiple failures by Romo while harping on a single failure by Bailey. Romo gets 40 opportunities a game to throw the ball and fails on 14 of them (66%). The receivers don't drop 34% of their catch opportunities and the FG kicker doesn't miss 34% of his attempts. We certainly can't expect our QB to complete more than 70% of his passes but we can expect him to complete the ones that will get his team a victory. Even you have to admit Romo misses a lot of open receivers at very, very crucial times. Although overall Romo is pretty good-he seems to always find a way to put his team in a hole.

[Macarthur]

You use 2 mistakes, a Dez Bryant fingertip miss on a TD and a barely missed Bailey FG to make your point and to emphasize how things could be completely different. This is certainly a true statement. But what you are failing to do is examine the dozens and dozens of Romo near misses and failures that also would have meant the difference in this season. You accept a incomplete pass by Romo as just a part of the game! And failing to complete a pass on 40% of his attempts certainly is a part of the game. A 60% to 70% completion ratio is a good ratio in the NFL. But which 40% he fails on is up for scrutiny. If Bailey makes that FG you are talking about but misses another one at some other point that doesn't cost them the game you aren't even talking about it. Yet Romo missed several opportunities on that very same drive to either get Bailey closer or to score a TD to take Bailey completely out of the equation. You excuse these multiple failures by Romo while harping on a single failure by Bailey. Romo gets 40 opportunities a game to throw the ball and fails on 14 of them (66%). The receivers don't drop 34% of their catch opportunities and the FG kicker doesn't miss 34% of his attempts. We certainly can't expect our QB to complete more than 70% of his passes but we can expect him to complete the ones that will get his team a victory. Even you have to admit Romo misses a lot of open receivers at very, very crucial times. Although overall Romo is pretty good-he seems to always find a way to put his team in a hole.

wow. I really don't know how to respond. :(

[buff4ever]

You use 2 mistakes, a Dez Bryant fingertip miss on a TD and a barely missed Bailey FG to make your point and to emphasize how things could be completely different. This is certainly a true statement. But what you are failing to do is examine the dozens and dozens of Romo near misses and failures that also would have meant the difference in this season. You accept a incomplete pass by Romo as just a part of the game! And failing to complete a pass on 40% of his attempts certainly is a part of the game. A 60% to 70% completion ratio is a good ratio in the NFL. But which 40% he fails on is up for scrutiny. If Bailey makes that FG you are talking about but misses another one at some other point that doesn't cost them the game you aren't even talking about it. Yet Romo missed several opportunities on that very same drive to either get Bailey closer or to score a TD to take Bailey completely out of the equation. You excuse these multiple failures by Romo while harping on a single failure by Bailey. Romo gets 40 opportunities a game to throw the ball and fails on 14 of them (66%). The receivers don't drop 34% of their catch opportunities and the FG kicker doesn't miss 34% of his attempts. We certainly can't expect our QB to complete more than 70% of his passes but we can expect him to complete the ones that will get his team a victory. Even you have to admit Romo misses a lot of open receivers at very, very crucial times. Although overall Romo is pretty good-he seems to always find a way to put his team in a hole.

:clap::clap::iagree:

[GrTigers6]

You use 2 mistakes, a Dez Bryant fingertip miss on a TD and a barely missed Bailey FG to make your point and to emphasize how things could be completely different. This is certainly a true statement. But what you are failing to do is examine the dozens and dozens of Romo near misses and failures that also would have meant the difference in this season. You accept a incomplete pass by Romo as just a part of the game! And failing to complete a pass on 40% of his attempts certainly is a part of the game. A 60% to 70% completion ratio is a good ratio in the NFL. But which 40% he fails on is up for scrutiny. If Bailey makes that FG you are talking about but misses another one at some other point that doesn't cost them the game you aren't even talking about it. Yet Romo missed several opportunities on that very same drive to either get Bailey closer or to score a TD to take Bailey completely out of the equation. You excuse these multiple failures by Romo while harping on a single failure by Bailey. Romo gets 40 opportunities a game to throw the ball and fails on 14 of them (66%). The receivers don't drop 34% of their catch opportunities and the FG kicker doesn't miss 34% of his attempts. We certainly can't expect our QB to complete more than 70% of his passes but we can expect him to complete the ones that will get his team a victory. Even you have to admit Romo misses a lot of open receivers at very, very crucial times. Although overall Romo is pretty good-he seems to always find a way to put his team in a hole.WOW, Just WOW! Are you telling me that Romo can decide on which passes he completes and which ones he misses? There are several factors that are involved with passing. Bad routes, bad pass, Throw away pass to avoid a sac, hurried up pass because of pressure, Great defensive plays to knock it down or away. And yes Romo is responsible for some of those bad passes but also is responsible for some very good passes after excaping that most qb's would never have been able to attempt.

[Farmersfan]

Again, here we got with the strawman stuff. I have never said Romo shares no blame in some of the teams struggles. Romo has had some stinker games. But guess what? EVERY QB has bad ones. Go through Eli's game logs in the last couple of years and look at some of the truly awful games he's mixed in there.

Here is the difference between me and you. You hold everyother QB in the league to a different standard than Romo.






You really need to stop with the "Strawman" accusations Mac! It's nonsense! In the first place I never said that you specifically said Romo shares no blame. I said you blame everybody but Romo. This isn't referencing anything you specifically said but your overall comments and opinions that you present on this forum. And you have repeatedly stated that Romo is not the problem with this team. That is a misleading comment because Romo certainly is a part of the problem with this team. We are debating the extent of the problems that should be placed on Romo but only a MORON would say Romo doesn't share in the blame...... You even said Romo had some stinkers! A game lost because of a Romo mistake is far, far, far more damning than a game lost by a Dez Bryant or Dan Bailey mistake! Why? Because Romo had 60 opportunities to overcome that mistake! Ever wonder why the QB position is viewed as the most important position in football? It's the highest paid normally and carries the most responsibility and the most blame. There is a reason for this.....

[Emerson1]

In summary, the Cowboys would be undefeated if Kyle Orton was starting.

[Eagle 1]

So what about the wide open receivers that Romo misses?
Is that somebody elses fault too? I noticed you didn't address that.

[Macarthur]

So what about the wide open receivers that Romo misses?
Is that somebody elses fault too? I noticed you didn't address that.

You're right, genius. Romo is the only QB that ever misses a wide open reciever. This is an idiotic statement. YOu are a football idiot.

[Farmersfan]

WOW, Just WOW! Are you telling me that Romo can decide on which passes he completes and which ones he misses? There are several factors that are involved with passing. Bad routes, bad pass, Throw away pass to avoid a sac, hurried up pass because of pressure, Great defensive plays to knock it down or away. And yes Romo is responsible for some of those bad passes but also is responsible for some very good passes after excaping that most qb's would never have been able to attempt.




Those escapes and good passes earn Tony Romo 12 million a year! Do they get their money's worth in your opinion?

[buff4ever]

WOW, Just WOW! Are you telling me that Romo can decide on which passes he completes and which ones he misses? There are several factors that are involved with passing. Bad routes, bad pass, Throw away pass to avoid a sac, hurried up pass because of pressure, Great defensive plays to knock it down or away. And yes Romo is responsible for some of those bad passes but also is responsible for some very good passes after excaping that most qb's would never have been able to attempt.

I direct this one at almost only you. The main point you make more than any is this one. Romo's escapability and drive saving throw after the escape. I have heard this enough. It is the one exciting thing that Romo has going for him, however it doesn't make him a great qb. For the number of times he pulls an escape off with a great pass, how much does it really pay off for the cowboys. Escapes and throw aways or no gains are only impressive in the escape, but don't pay off much. For every great escape romo has with a great throw or big gain attached, other qb's had already distributed the ball to an open receiver due to the blitz. I don't think that romo picks up on the blitz and knows where the ball needs to go as well as he should.

Sacks are a part of the game, and to top it off there are a lot of great defensive linemen and linebackers that get paid big bucks to do exactly that, sack the qb. All the lines in the league give up sacks, the cowboy line could obviously be better this year, and has given up more than the average. However, what if romo was better at anticipating and distributing the ball quicker. Then he wouldn't have to escape and make a play as often, which once again I don't think is as beneficial as you romo supporters make it out to be. If he were a better qb in the first 3 seconds after the snap he wouldn't be sacked as much as he is.

On a side note, if the run game keeps improving, a little play action will slow the all out blitz that we were seeing with no run game. If we can hand it off 8 more times a game, that is 8 fewer times there is a chance of romo frustrating us all.

[Farmersfan]

WOW, Just WOW! Are you telling me that Romo can decide on which passes he completes and which ones he misses? There are several factors that are involved with passing. Bad routes, bad pass, Throw away pass to avoid a sac, hurried up pass because of pressure, Great defensive plays to knock it down or away. And yes Romo is responsible for some of those bad passes but also is responsible for some very good passes after excaping that most qb's would never have been able to attempt.




And also, the ability to decide doesn't remove or add blame. Who cares if a QB completes 70% of his passes if the passes don't score enough points to win the game? Seriously, A high school QB could play on this Dallas team and complete 5 yard passes............... A NFL QB is held to a higher standard than that.

[buff4ever]

And also, the ability to decide doesn't remove or add blame. Who cares if a QB completes 70% of his passes if the passes don't score enough points to win the game? Seriously, A high school QB could play on this Dallas team and complete 5 yard passes............... A NFL QB is held to a higher standard than that.

I was not a qb, but I think I could hit witten quite often. He is a good target, and even though teams know he is there, they can't seem to cover him well.

[Farmersfan]

In summary, the Cowboys would be undefeated if Kyle Orton was starting.



You want to play Rainman? Let's play then: Romo went 1-5 and then got hurt in 2010. Jon Kitna took over the team and proceeded to put together a career best season with the team that Romo couldn't win with. Jon Kitna was old and done in his career at the time. He didn't play better than Romo but he certainly played comparable to Romo. I think you guys would be surprised with how Orton would not alter the success of this team much if he took over for Romo. I'm not saying he would be better but he certainly wouldn't be a huge step down.....

[buff4ever]

I would be willing to bet orton could produce a little better result, but can't prove it, I know. Strawman stuff, I guess I am just throwing out there my confidence in romo to get the job done.

[Emerson1]

A less mobile QB would produce better results behind the worst offensive line in the league?

[Macarthur]

I would be willing to bet orton could produce a little better result, but can't prove it

lol. This literally could be End of Thread!


I know. Strawman stuff, I guess I am just throwing out there my confidence in romo to get the job done.

Hmmm, this shows me that you really don't know what strawman mean.

[pancho villa]

Romo sucks because he plays for the Cowboys.

[Farmersfan]

You're right, genius. Romo is the only QB that ever misses a wide open reciever. This is an idiotic statement. YOu are a football idiot.




When he does miss those wide open receivers, is it a mistake? Does it harm the team? Not just Romo, any QB?

And BTW: Dez isn't the only receiver that misses a touchdown by a fingernail and Bailey isn't the only kicker who misses FGs yet you don't have a problem singling them out as a reason the team isn't 9-4 right now. :crazy1:

[Macarthur]

When he does miss those wide open receivers, is it a mistake? Does it harm the team? Not just Romo, any QB?

Sure it's mistake. Here's a news flash - Romo makes mistakes. The harm to the team is a variable depending on what happens. For example, a couple of games ago, he missed the TE in the end zone for a TD. It was just a poor throw. However, they scored a TD two plays later. Was it a mistake, yes. Did it harm the team, no.


And BTW: Dez isn't the only receiver that misses a touchdown by a fingernail and Bailey isn't the only kicker who misses FGs yet you don't have a problem singling them out as a reason the team isn't 9-4 right now. :crazy1:

I didn't say they were the reason. Not blaming them. All I'm saying is that there are tons of variables that go into wins and losses and sometimes it's just luck. Bailey probably makes that kick 90% of the time. That time he missed it. The problem with the anit-Romo crowd is that loss just goes to 'prove' their point again that Romo can't win the big game.

Another example - Eli throwing the ball to Tyree and him pinning it against his helmet. It basically won the SB, but frankly, it was a lucky play. Neither of them could have done that again if they tried.

See, here's the problem with your logic. Your last sentence shows that you have a hard time viewing things in degrees. I never said those were the REASONS they weren't 9-4. I'm trying to make the point that 10-6 and 6-10 in this league can hing on things like missing a kick by 2 feet and a fingernail being out of the back of the endzone. But then folks on your side take the totality of the situation and say 'See, Tony isn't the answer'.

[pancho villa]

Cowboys suck

[Farmersfan]

Sure it's mistake. Here's a news flash - Romo makes mistakes. The harm to the team is a variable depending on what happens. For example, a couple of games ago, he missed the TE in the end zone for a TD. It was just a poor throw. However, they scored a TD two plays later. Was it a mistake, yes. Did it harm the team, no.


So what are we arguing about? It's a mistake and you admit it's a mistake. In your single example he made up for it by scoring on a following play. But the vast majority of the time he isn't able to score later. And far too often they are drive enders. I've never said other QBs don't do this. They all do this. But it is still a mistake and it is still the reason the game is won or lost a lot of the time.



I didn't say they were the reason. Not blaming them. All I'm saying is that there are tons of variables that go into wins and losses and sometimes it's just luck. Bailey probably makes that kick 90% of the time. That time he missed it. The problem with the anit-Romo crowd is that loss just goes to 'prove' their point again that Romo can't win the big game.



You pointed out those specifics events to emphasize that without those specific events this team could be 9-4 based on how Romo has played so far. That is what we are discussing isn't it? The point is that Romo has had just as many execution failures that could mean the difference in 7-6 and 9-4 as they have had unlucky bounces. Other players have had similar mistakes and failures also but those don't reduce Romo's in any way.


Another example - Eli throwing the ball to Tyree and him pinning it against his helmet. It basically won the SB, but frankly, it was a lucky play. Neither of them could have done that again if they tried.


You have completely disregarded the other 59.5 minutes of that game. Yes that was an amazing play by Tyree. But Manning's reputation was not made on that single play.




See, here's the problem with your logic. Your last sentence shows that you have a hard time viewing things in degrees. I never said those were the REASONS they weren't 9-4. I'm trying to make the point that 10-6 and 6-10 in this league can hing on things like missing a kick by 2 feet and a fingernail being out of the back of the endzone. But then folks on your side take the totality of the situation and say 'See, Tony isn't the answer'.



Talking in circles here Mac! You brought those things up to illustrate how easily this team could be 9-4 right now instead of 7-6 if they had not happened. We get that. My comment was that you completely fail to acknowledge that Romo has also had moments that could have meant the difference in the team being 7-6 instead of 9-4. A bad pass thrown behind Hanna on the first possession of Sunday's game in the Redzone when the Cowboys had a 3rd and 1 meant the difference in 4 points. Or at least the potential for 4 points. I can go back to the play by play and point out at least 2 or 3 times on 3rd down that Romo threw a bad or uncatchable pass. Those ENDED scoring opportunities for the Cowboys. A single score in addition to what they got would have changed the entire complextion of the game. But i'm sure you know what I'm talking about. You jsut don't agree those incompletions happening at that particular moment is significant in the overall scheme of things. But I say they are.

[Txbroadcaster]

You have completely disregarded the other 59.5 minutes of that game. Yes that was an amazing play by Tyree. But Manning's reputation was not made on that single play.







Talking in circles here Mac! You brought those things up to illustrate how easily this team could be 9-4 right now instead of 7-6 if they had not happened. We get that. My comment was that you completely fail to acknowledge that Romo has also had moments that could have meant the difference in the team being 7-6 instead of 9-4. A bad pass thrown behind Hanna on the first possession of Sunday's game in the Redzone when the Cowboys had a 3rd and 1 meant the difference in 4 points. Or at least the potential for 4 points. I can go back to the play by play and point out at least 2 or 3 times on 3rd down that Romo threw a bad or uncatchable pass. Those ENDED scoring opportunities for the Cowboys. A single score in addition to what they got would have changed the entire complextion of the game. But i'm sure you know what I'm talking about. You jsut don't agree those incompletions happening at that particular moment is significant in the overall scheme of things. But I say they are.


yea Eli's rep was made on that play..before that play he was having a below average game

you talk about 3rd down...you do realize how amazing Dallas has been on 3rd down the last few weeks right?

[Eagle 1]

You're right, genius. Romo is the only QB that ever misses a wide open reciever. This is an idiotic statement. YOu are a football idiot.

And your just an idiot.

[Macarthur]

And your just an idiot.

I think this thread clearly points out which one of us is able to think beyond the level of my 7 year old.

[Eagle 1]

I think this thread clearly points out which one of us is able to think beyond the level of my 7 year old.

Yea, the one who stated name calling because they didn't agree with an obvious statement.

[Macarthur]

So what are we arguing about? It's a mistake and you admit it's a mistake. In your single example he made up for it by scoring on a following play. But the vast majority of the time he isn't able to score later. And far too often they are drive enders. I've never said other QBs don't do this. They all do this. But it is still a mistake and it is still the reason the game is won or lost a lot of the time.

Sure, QB mistakes sometimes are the difference in wins and losses. You seem to want to point out times when that happens to Romo, but never really give him credit for the great plays/throws which far out weigh the bad throws/decisions.


You pointed out those specifics events to emphasize that without those specific events this team could be 9-4 based on how Romo has played so far. That is what we are discussing isn't it? The point is that Romo has had just as many execution failures that could mean the difference in 7-6 and 9-4 as they have had unlucky bounces. Other players have had similar mistakes and failures also but those don't reduce Romo's in any way.

Can you give specifics on plays Romo could/should have made that would be a 2 game difference?

Let me ask this a different way...What would time team's record be with Eli?



You have completely disregarded the other 59.5 minutes of that game. Yes hat was an amazing play by Tyree. But Manning's reputation was not made on that single play.

Manning's playoff run in 2007 was nothing special.


Talking in circles here Mac! You brought those things up to illustrate how easily this team could be 9-4 right now instead of 7-6 if they had not happened. We get that. My comment was that you completely fail to acknowledge that Romo has also had moments that could have meant the difference in the team being 7-6 instead of 9-4. A bad pass thrown behind Hanna on the first possession of Sunday's game in the Redzone when the Cowboys had a 3rd and 1 meant the difference in 4 points. Or at least the potential for 4 points. I can go back to the play by play and point out at least 2 or 3 times on 3rd down that Romo threw a bad or uncatchable pass. Those ENDED scoring opportunities for the Cowboys. A single score in addition to what they got would have changed the entire complextion of the game. But i'm sure you know what I'm talking about. You jsut don't agree those incompletions happening at that particular moment is significant in the overall scheme of things. But I say they are.

I don't know the specifics of the scenario you pointed out because I was driving and didn't watch the game.

I don't think I'm talking in circles. I think it's an issue where we clearly watch football from an entirely different perspective and won't agree.

I just don't understand your continuing questioning of Romo's mistakes in the context of the rest of the league. I think we all agree NFL QB's make mistakes. We both agree Romo makes mistakes. YOu seem to want to take that to another level and say the reason the Cowboys haven't been successful is because of his mistakes when by any real metrix you wish to use, Romo is one of the most efficient QBs in the league.

[Macarthur]

Yea, the one who stated name calling because they didn't agree with an obvious statement.

It was an idiotic statement and it was another Strawman. BTW, I would suggest from one of your posts that you use Webster's and look up the definition of Strawman.

[Eagle 1]

It was an idiotic statement and it was another Strawman. BTW, I would suggest from one of your posts that you use Webster's and look up the definition of Strawman.

Your condescending attitude says enough about you as a man. Your the type of person who cut off their own nose just to spite their face.
Pitiful.

I'm going to make another "obvious statement" and give you a chance to stick the other foot in your mouth.
It takes a lot more than just good stats to make a good qb. Somebody asked would I rather have a qb with less astonishing stats, but has won a super bowl. YOU DAMN RIGHT I WOULD, AND TWICE ON SUNDAY.
It's pretty obvious to me and others on here that you can't grasp that winning is the ONLY stat that matters. Since Romo will never win a super bowl, or even another playoff game for that matter, he will only be remembered as a qb with great stats. Nothing more, nothing less. Yet you will defend him until the day you die.

Now, Strawman this:
http://oi49.tinypic.com/2dha3gw.jpg

[Farmersfan]

Sure, QB mistakes sometimes are the difference in wins and losses. You seem to want to point out times when that happens to Romo, but never really give him credit for the great plays/throws which far out weigh the bad throws/decisions.

Can you give specifics on plays Romo could/should have made that would be a 2 game difference?

Let me ask this a different way...What would time team's record be with Eli?


How could I possibly know this about Eli playing here? Seriously? And you are correct that I don't give him credit for the great plays/throws he makes. I don't like him! (just in case you can't tell). Besides, he is paid rather handsomely to make those plays. That is why he is here. But I do disagree that his great plays out weigh his bad plays. I challenge you to present any evidence to that point. His average QB play does far exceed his bad plays but we aren't in a "Average" market in Dallas these days...........





Manning's playoff run in 2007 was nothing special.


All the more reason to be impressed that he was able to win. Obviously he didn't make a lot of plays but the ones he was able to make must have been effective plays. In the game against the Giants the Cowboys dominated every single category except 2. Guess which 2? Score and turnovers. Romo fumbled the ball once and threw a interception once. The Dallas defense that you guys speak so poorly about so much held the Giants scoreless the last 13 minutes of that game and Romo couldn't overcome a 4 point lead by the Giants. The last possession Romo got the ball at midfield with almost 2 minutes left and couldn't drive for a score. Lot's and lots of reason for this and Romo is certainly one of those reasons!




don't know the specifics of the scenario you pointed out because I was driving and didn't watch the game.

I just don't understand your continuing questioning of Romo's mistakes in the context of the rest of the league. I think we all agree NFL QB's make mistakes. We both agree Romo makes mistakes. YOu seem to want to take that to another level and say the reason the Cowboys haven't been successful is because of his mistakes when by any real metrix you wish to use, Romo is one of the most efficient QBs in the league.


You keep accusing everyone else of building strawmen Mac when that is exactly what you are doing here. I have NEVER said Romo is "THE REASON" the Cowboys haven't been successful. Never once. I have always said he is A REASON. That would be "A" reason. (interpretation: one possibility out of several or one of a group). I have even gone so far as to say he could be the primary reason for it. But never the only reason. You can accuse me all you want but it is in truth you who is trying to eliminate Romo from the blame game where this team is concerned. Don't try to deny that.
I honestly don't know if some other QB would have done better than Romo or could do better than Romo in the future. I know Jon Kitna made a pretty strong arguement for my side of this discussion. And something else that I do know is Romo hasn't gotten it done and shows me little reason to believe he will get it done and therefore if we aren't trying something different we are destined to continue what we have gotten in the past. I would rather they gut the team and go 1-15 than to continue to barely keep their heads above .500 with mediocre play.

[Macarthur]

I'm going to make another "obvious statement" and give you a chance to stick the other foot in your mouth.
It takes a lot more than just good stats to make a good qb. Somebody asked would I rather have a qb with less astonishing stats, but has won a super bowl. YOU DAMN RIGHT I WOULD, AND TWICE ON SUNDAY.


So what you are saying is that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino?

[Farmersfan]

So what you are saying is that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino?



You use the worst statistical QB in history with a Superbowl ring to compare to the Best statistical QB in history without a Superbowl ring to attempt to discredit his point. You are better than this. Eagle1 never said anything about choosing a bad QB with a ring over one of the greatest without a ring. He said a QB with "less astonishing stats"!
So let's rephrase the question: Would you choose Troy Aikman's history over Dan Marino's history for your team? Would you give up a lot of those shiny stats of Marino's for the Superbowl rings of Aikman?

[coach]

You use the worst statistical QB in history with a Superbowl ring to compare to the Best statistical QB in history without a Superbowl ring to attempt to discredit his point. You are better than this. Eagle1 never said anything about choosing a bad QB with a ring over one of the greatest without a ring. He said a QB with "less astonishing stats"!
So let's rephrase the question: Would you choose Troy Aikman's history over Dan Marino's history for your team? Would you give up a lot of those shiny stats of Marino's for the Superbowl rings of Aikman?

If you traded Marino for Aikman Dallas still has 3 rings and possibly more....

[Farmersfan]

If you traded Marino for Aikman Dallas still has 3 rings and possibly more....



You are probably right! But that wasn't the question. The question was would you take Marino's HISTORY which includes great stats and no ring over Aikmans history which includes good/modest stats and 3 rings. I was simply reinforcing what I believe Eagle1 was trying to say. He would take a less statistical great QB with a ring any day over a QB with awesome stats and no ring..... I think he was implying that Romo's stats don't really matter if he can't win a ring. And whether or not that inability to win that ring is the result of the team around him, the organization he plays for or because of some lacking on his part is debatable. Which happens a lot these days...
But truthfully we have no real way of knowing if Aikman could have taken that Dolphin's team to the Superbowl. I heard Aikman say on TV the other day that he believes the position of QB is harder to play these days than it was when he played. Do you agree with his comment? Considering all the new rules in place protecting QBs and Receivers I can't really imagine it is tougher. I think the numbers being put up by QBs in the league these days proves it isn't tougher. Thoughts?

[buff4ever]

There are two points withing the same atmosphere of what you guys are talking about.

I feel that Marino very likely was a better passer than Aikman; however, if Marino would have played for the cowboys when Aikman did, his stats wouldn't have been near as good as they look as a dolphin qb. This proves you can't compare qb's strictly by stats, which is why romo isn't as good as his stats. Aikman handed the ball off to one of the best running backs in the history of the game with one of the best lines in the game. They were able to play that kind of ball. The cowyboys would have done the same thing if Marino was the qb.

To Aikman's statement about it being tougher now adays, I assume that he means how much passing qb's are asked to do. I am with FF on the fact that the rules protect them from many shots that Aikman probably took, but all teams pass more in my opinion than they use to. There are few teams that base their offense on mostly run. Aikman is a far better qb than romo, regardless of stats.

I think that Marino would have had similar luck as Aikman as a cowboy qb. I don't think that romo would have similar luck as brady or either manning if put in their position. MY OPINIONS.

[Macarthur]

He would take a less statistical great QB with a ring any day over a QB with awesome stats and no ring.....

The point is that OF COURSE, everyone would take this trade off. But the reality is that you can't take this tradeoff. But you can't make these decisions in hindsight.

The point I have tried to make all along is that Romo is a very good QB that is more than capable to lead a team to a SB. I find the position of 'the Cowboys will never win anything with Romo because he's a choker' the one that makes my head want to explode because it's not based in any sort of fact or analysis. It's just that they don't like the guy.


I think he was implying that Romo's stats don't really matter if he can't win a ring. And whether or not that inability to win that ring is the result of the team around him, the organization he plays for or because of some lacking on his part is debatable. Which happens a lot these days...

hallelujah! The fact of matter is that, with the exception of 2007, Romo has been surrounded by a team not capable of deep playoff runs and a front office & coaching staff that has been woefully inept.


But truthfully we have no real way of knowing if Aikman could have taken that Dolphin's team to the Superbowl. I heard Aikman say on TV the other day that he believes the position of QB is harder to play these days than it was when he played. Do you agree with his comment? Considering all the new rules in place protecting QBs and Receivers I can't really imagine it is tougher. I think the numbers being put up by QBs in the league these days proves it isn't tougher. Thoughts?

I think what he was getting at is that the passing games are much more complex and the defenses that have been developed to slow those down have become much more complex.

[Farmersfan]

The point is that OF COURSE, everyone would take this trade off. But the reality is that you can't take this tradeoff. But you can't make these decisions in hindsight.

The point I have tried to make all along is that Romo is a very good QB that is more than capable to lead a team to a SB. I find the position of 'the Cowboys will never win anything with Romo because he's a choker' the one that makes my head want to explode because it's not based in any sort of fact or analysis. It's just that they don't like the guy..


And the POINT that so many others have tried to make all along is that Romo IS NOT a very good QB that is capable of leading a team to a SB. I'm not understanding how you seem to think this is some kind of revelation. And just because you disagree with the comments doesn't mean they aren't based off of Facts or analysis. See you aren't the only one who is able to analyze football. And your comment about people thinking the way they do just because they don't like Romo is nonsense. The dislike for Romo came before the thinking, not vice versa! Romo created the way people think about him by his actions on and off the field. Nobody was born with a dislike of Tony Romo.




hallelujah! The fact of matter is that, with the exception of 2007, Romo has been surrounded by a team not capable of deep playoff runs and a front office & coaching staff that has been woefully inept..


Once again this in ONLY your opinion and cannot be validated in way. In fact if you used the preponderance of the evidence rule you are 100% incorrect.





I think what he was getting at is that the passing games are much more complex and the defenses that have been developed to slow those down have become much more complex.



Seems to me that would be a wash. Wouldn't it? If the defenses are better and the offenses are better then shouldn't the productivity be about the same? Or are QBs smarter now? Do the QBs these days have more ability than those in Aiman's day? And if the QBs have more ability then wouldn't the defensive players have more ability too? See I thought about all these possibilities before I commented that it seems like to me Aikman's comment is flawed. Unless i'm missing a peice of the puzzle I would have to say the QB position now is easier to play. Both physically and mentally. CORRECTION: Perhaps not easier to actually play but easier to be successful when doing it. Remember the list of current NFL QBs that are in the top 25 of all time?I think that shows it takes far less talent to put up quality measurables these days. Or maybe it's just me!

[Eagle 1]

Five years later and nothing has changed. So yes Tony Romo is labeled as a choke artist. Of course there will always be the minority that will take up for Romo, but even that number is becoming smaller every season.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8222dd4e/Choking-Romo

[Macarthur]

Once again this in ONLY your opinion and cannot be validated in way. In fact if you used the preponderance of the evidence rule you are 100% incorrect.

What evidence?



Seems to me that would be a wash. Wouldn't it? If the defenses are better and the offenses are better then shouldn't the productivity be about the same? Or are QBs smarter now? Do the QBs these days have more ability than those in Aiman's day? And if the QBs have more ability then wouldn't the defensive players have more ability too? See I thought about all these possibilities before I commented that it seems like to me Aikman's comment is flawed. Unless i'm missing a peice of the puzzle I would have to say the QB position now is easier to play. Both physically and mentally. CORRECTION: Perhaps not easier to actually play but easier to be successful when doing it. Remember the list of current NFL QBs that are in the top 25 of all time?I think that shows it takes far less talent to put up quality measurables these days. Or maybe it's just me!

The stats are better, IMO, because of the rule changes that allow for very little contact to WRs.

I think what he means by tougher is that the defenses have gotten more complex and the defensive athletes have gotten bigger and faster therefore the windows are tighter, the rush is coming faster, better disguised blitzes, etc.

[Macarthur]

Five years later and nothing has changed. So yes Tony Romo is labeled as a choke artist. Of course there will always be the minority that will take up for Romo, but even that number is becoming smaller every season.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8222dd4e/Choking-Romo

lol. First of all, you post a video of two of the biggest tools in Faulk and Sapp. And don't let Sapp kid you with his 'I'm a Cowboy fan' crap. What a joke. And on top of that, did you even watch the whole video. Faulk is the biggest Romo hater on TV and even he said that game was lost by factors outside of Romo. If that punt isn't blocked for a TD, the Cowboys are never throwing the ball at the end of that game.

I find it interesting that you find one video that doesn't even fully support your position, yet I have posted about a half a dozen articles that lay out statistically with FACTS that Romo is one of the better 4th quarter QBs, not only right now, but in the history of the league. Of course, those are wrong and Warren Sapp is right. LOL.

[regaleagle]

HOW LONG did it take for JOHN ELWAY to win his first Superbowl??? Was he the main reason for the Broncos not getting the job done for so many years? It happens in this sport, and the quarterback position is even more tenuous as a position today than it was when Elway was playing.

[Eagle 1]

lol. First of all, you post a video of two of the biggest tools in Faulk and Sapp. And don't let Sapp kid you with his 'I'm a Cowboy fan' crap. What a joke. And on top of that, did you even watch the whole video. Faulk is the biggest Romo hater on TV and even he said that game was lost by factors outside of Romo. If that punt isn't blocked for a TD, the Cowboys are never throwing the ball at the end of that game.

I find it interesting that you find one video that doesn't even fully support your position, yet I have posted about a half a dozen articles that lay out statistically with FACTS that Romo is one of the better 4th quarter QBs, not only right now, but in the history of the league. Of course, those are wrong and Warren Sapp is right. LOL.

You can laugh it off if you want, but the truth is the truth. A majority of people see Romo as a choke artist, fans and non-fans.

A look back of Romo's career proves it.

2006

Although veteran Drew Bledsoe was the initial starter at quarterback, fourth-year backup Tony Romo replaced Bledsoe at half-time of their week 6 matchup with the N.Y. Giants. Romo became the starter in week 7 due to Bledsoe's rough starts with frequent sacks and interceptions. Romo initially played very well, going 5–1 in his first six NFL starts, including a win over the previously unbeaten Indianapolis Colts, but finished the season 1–3 with six TDs, six interceptions and two fumbles lost. The Cowboys secured a playoff berth for the first time since 2003, but did not win the division when in the final week they were defeated by the then 2–13 Lions, and wound up losing their first week in the playoffs to the Seattle Seahawks, a game in which Romo botched the hold on a go-ahead field goal inside the final two minutes.

2007

The Cowboys finished the regular season tied for the best record in the NFC (13–3), and earned a first round bye and home field advantage throughout the playoffs. However, they lost their first playoff game to the eventual Super Bowl champion New York Giants, a team that they had defeated in their two regular-season matchups. This loss extended the Cowboys drought of playoff wins to eleven years and tied the NFL record of 6 straight playoff games lost.

2008

Despite entering the last month of the season four games above .500, they failed to make the playoffs, finishing with a 9–7 record.

2009 ...The ONLY PLAYOFF WIN under Romo, then turn around and get their ass handed to them the next week.

In the wild-card opening round of the playoffs, the Dallas Cowboys, once again, beat the Eagles, 34–14, to score their first playoff win since 1996 and sweep all three games played against Philadelphia this season. They lost to the Minnesota Vikings in the divisional round of the playoffs, 34–3.

2010

The Cowboys finished the season 6–10, 3rd place in the NFC East, and failed to reach the playoffs.

2011

The team improved on their 6–10 record from 2010 but failed to make the playoffs after their loss to the New York Giants for the NFC East division title of the final game of their season.

You want facts? Those are the facts. ONE playoff win since Romo took over as a starter. Now try and spin that all you want, but he is a loser and probably will never win another playoff game and definately not a Super Bowl.
Most hard core Cowboy fans like myself are not sastified with this mediocracy like you are because we come from a different generation.
Winning is all that matters, not STATS! You will never understand that.

[Macarthur]

You're right. I will never, never, never , EVER understand winning. Ive never thought of that. What in the world could I be thinking.

[Eagle 1]

You're right. I will never, never, never , EVER understand winning. Ive never thought of that. What in the world could I be thinking.

Yep.

[GrTigers6]

You can laugh it off if you want, but the truth is the truth. A majority of people see Romo as a choke artist, fans and non-fans.

A look back of Romo's career proves it.

2006


2007


2008


2009 ...The ONLY PLAYOFF WIN under Romo, then turn around and get their ass handed to them the next week.


2010


2011


You want facts? Those are the facts. ONE playoff win since Romo took over as a starter. Now try and spin that all you want, but he is a loser and probably will never win another playoff game and definately not a Super Bowl.
Most hard core Cowboy fans like myself are not sastified with this mediocracy like you are because we come from a different generation.
Winning is all that matters, not STATS! You will never understand that.All that proves is the cowboys choke!

[Eagle 1]

All that proves is the cowboys choke!

Yep as long as he is the qb, the Cowboys will choke.

[buff4ever]

You're right. I will never, never, never , EVER understand winning. Ive never thought of that. What in the world could I be thinking.

Your responses usually aren't even responding directly to the meat of the statement your responding to. Maybe you don't get the statements, maybe that is why you haven't seen the light with romo, you just don't get it. The main point was that stats are not the only way to judge a players individual performance amongst his teammates. You can't argue that we don't think you understand stats aren't everything, when that is all you bring to the table when defending romo. However, if you are going to defend romo, I would have to say stats is all you can come with, because winner and leader are not his better qualities.

Romo doesn't know how to get the best out of the athletes around him. If he could, he could share the load that he seems to put all on himself.

[Txbroadcaster]

Romo doesn't know how to get the best out of the athletes around him. If he could, he could share the load that he seems to put all on himself.

He made Miles Austin a UFA into a Pro bowl WR...made Laurent Robinson go from scrap heap to one of biggest FA WR on the market...so again how does he not get the best of them?

[Farmersfan]

He made Miles Austin a UFA into a Pro bowl WR...made Laurent Robinson go from scrap heap to one of biggest FA WR on the market...so again how does he not get the best of them?



Laurent Robinson was a great pickup for the Cowboys for the season when they didn't really have much in the way of go to receivers. But he played for the Rams before Dallas and Jacksonville this season where he has been hurt half the season. If you asking if Romo is better than Marc bulger, Kyle Boller and Blaine Gabbert then I will say yes................

And Miles Austin is insignificant in the NFL these days. He showed greatness for a while but not so much anymore. If you give Romo credit for that then so be it.

[Farmersfan]

HOW LONG did it take for JOHN ELWAY to win his first Superbowl??? Was he the main reason for the Broncos not getting the job done for so many years? It happens in this sport, and the quarterback position is even more tenuous as a position today than it was when Elway was playing.



Don't know if John Elway was the reason! How could anybody possibly ever know that for sure? But rest assured if Elway had not ever won a playoff game with his talent and the team around him he certainly would be looked at harsher than Romo is right now!