Manti Te'o should win the Heisman!!

[pancho villa]

Te'o should win the Heisman not "Johnny turnover"

[Lion70]

Te'o should win the Heisman not "Johnny turnover"

Must have never seen Johnny play you sir are clueless

[jacket98,99]

Te'o should win the Heisman not "Johnny turnover"

I agree that Te' O should win...but "Johnny Turnover"?....really? I guess you wouldn't want him on your team?

[1st and goal]

El Rey de los tamales...

[pancho villa]

Must have never seen Johnny play you sir are clueless

you sir don't know Defense!! That is why the Agies are winning!!!

[YTBulldogs]

I agree that Te' O should win

Me too. JF will get his. But, I think the voters have fallen in love with the "Johnny Football Thingy".

[pancho villa]

Me too. JF will get his. But, I think the voters have fallen in love with the "Johnny Football Thingy".

JT will get his alright!!

[Hater]

I really enjoyed his Paul Pierce impersonation the other night........

"OH MY KNEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!"..............."Just kidding, I'm fine. Just wanted everyone to look at me some more." Surprised he didn't go back to the locker room in a wheelchair..

[pancho villa]

"Johnny Kneebrace"

[jacket98,99]

"Johnny Kneebrace"

You must be a sip.

[Hater]

if Manti Te'o played for a team NOT NAMED NOTRE DAME, is he even in the conversation??? NOPE!!



STEDMAN BAILEY FOR HEISMAN!!!!!!

[jason]

i dont think manziel will win, simply because voters won't vote for a freshman.
i hope the te'o doesnt win though.

[pirate4state]

You must be a sip.

lol he is Pancho Villa

[icu812]

I really enjoyed his Paul Pierce impersonation the other night........

"OH MY KNEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!"..............."Just kidding, I'm fine. Just wanted everyone to look at me some more." Surprised he didn't go back to the locker room in a wheelchair..

That would be D Wade more than PP.

Gotta go with JF to win the trophy!

[pancho villa]

You must be a sip.

I spit on tu!!!!

"Johnny crybaby"

[Deuce]

if Manti Te'o played for a team NOT NAMED NOTRE DAME, is he even in the conversation??? NOPE!!



STEDMAN BAILEY FOR HEISMAN!!!!!!

I have to agree with this. Saw Bailey in person against UT and he is a stud.

[jacket98,99]

I spit on tu!!!!

"Johnny crybaby"

You sound more like El Guapo. "Rape the horses!!"

[Red Bull]

I spit on tu!!!!

"Johnny crybaby"

Really? This is most stupid thread I think I have seen on the down low. This kid from Texas has done everything needed to win the award. To not give it to him since he is freshman is crazy. He is redshirt freshman which makes him roughly the same age as Tebow and Ingram when they won the award.

JFF will win the Heisman and possibly other awards here the next few weeks.

[Hater]

That would be D Wade more than PP.


No, I meant Paul Pierce....hence the wheelchair reference. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysT8RA6JQks

[pancho villa]

Te'o should win it he is the BEST player in the country. He has carried the Irish to a 12-0 record because be his crushing defensive play.
Give it to a real football player!!!!!

Manti "Bonecrusher" Te'o not Johnny "pretend" Manzel

[msu97]

[QUOTE=Hater;1721994]if Manti Te'o played for a team NOT NAMED NOTRE DAME, is he even in the conversation??? NOPE!!
this is dumb... I guarantee is Manti played for Alabama, Georgia, LSU or Florida he would be the leader... Honey Badger anyone?

this goes to show that the media controls who plays for the National Championship and who wins the Heisman

[Red&White_9x5]

I have nothing against Manzel, he is VERY talented. I saw him play in high school and knew that he would be a stud at the next level (although never thought he could do what he has done this early in his career). However, i can't help but think that had the Ags not knocked off Bama a couple of weeks ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion! Had Bama defended their home turf, the heisman would already be shipped to South Bend and their really wouldn't even need to be a ceremony in NYC. With that being said, I don't see how in the world Te'o doesn't win it. Johnny football will have AT LEAST one of this most likely in his future, but I don't think this is the year

[movethechain]

Te'o should win it he is the BEST player in the country. He has carried the Irish to a 12-0 record because be his crushing defensive play.
Give it to a real football player!!!!!

Manti "Bonecrusher" Te'o not Johnny "pretend" Manzel

Yeah, Johnny "pretended" to play defense once this year and we all know the result ... he forced a fumble and made an unassisted tackle on that one play. Looks like JF would dominate on defense just like he does on offense. JF should get the Heisman and it ain't even a close contest.

[msu97]

it comes down to voting... Manti will win the midwest, unless Collin Klein destroys the UT defense which is possible, then he is back in the race...
Manziel will win SEC country... that leaves the East Coast and the West Coast...
Also, how many voters will not even have Manziel on their ballot because he is a freshman... that will hurt him if this occurs...
Manti could carry the West Coast and the East... the outside guys here are Klein, because they play in prime time and a great game by him will carry clout... and Lee from USC who IS the best player in the nation... JFF is the most dynamic player... Klein is the most complete player, and Te'o is the toughest

[pancho villa]

I swear some of you foolish Ag's are looking at this through"Maroon colored glasses"

Te'o is the best player in college football. and I hate tu!!

[msu97]

Pancho... go destroy a buffet somewhere... fatty

[pancho villa]

Pancho... go destroy a buffet somewhere... fatty

When you get to be 5'6" come see me.

[msu97]

When you get to be 5'6" come see me.

this is a complicated situation since there are kids who are listed at 5'8", 5'9" who I know I am taller than so does that count...

I mean you are 6', standing up and 6'8" lying down

[pancho villa]

this is a complicated situation since there are kids who are listed at 5'8", 5'9" who I know I am taller than so does that count...

I mean you are 6', standing up and 6'8" lying down

At least I can see over the bar without having to stand on a stool to get a beer.

[Macarthur]

Te'o should win it he is the BEST player in the country.


Really? Te'o isn't even the best LBer in the country. Jarvis Jones says hello.

[pancho villa]

Really? Te'o isn't even the best LBer in the country. Jarvis Jones says hello.

He missed two games this year. Te'o is too tough for that.

[Macarthur]

You're right about Jones missing a couple of games. Now, go back and look at some key stats such as tackles for loss, sacks and forced fumbles. Jones is top 10 in all and Te'o isn't in the top 100 for ANY of those!

Te'o does have a high number of INTs and tackles. Look Te'o is a very very good football player, but I don't think he's the best football player in the country. In fact, I think as a pure football player, Marquis Lee may be better than any of them. That dude is a beast!

[1st and goal]

Some of you have been drinking too much of that muddy Brazos river water. I think you have amoebas in your brains....

[Macarthur]

Some of you have been drinking too much of that muddy Brazos river water. I think you have amoebas in your brains....

Go back and look at Te'o's stats compared to some other LBers that never even sniffed a heisman vote.

Look at these two:

Dat Nguyen- 51 consecutive starts, 517 career tackles and a 10.7 tackles-per-game average.
6 interceptions.
4 sacks.
5 fumbles recovered.

T'eo- 48 starts, 422 careers tackles and a 8.8 tackles-per game-average.
6 interceptions
8.5 sacks.
2 fumbles recovered.

Senior year alone
Dat
147 total tackles
20 tackles for loss
4 sacks
2 fumbles recovered
2 ints (at least)

Teo
98 total tackles
5.5 for loss
1.5 sacks
2 fumbles recovered
6 (or 7) interceptions

[Macarthur]

I don't know how anyone could look at the numbers and not say that he's only really getting this hype because he plays for ND and they are having a great year.

[whitelightning5]

I don't know how anyone could look at the numbers and not say that he's only really getting this hype because he plays for ND and they are having a great year.

Unfortunately, that is typically how the voters play it. The best player on the best team usually wins. I agree that Lee is probably the best CFB player this year. That said, I wish Te'o would fall in the Texan's lap on draft day.

[Rabid Cougar]

if Manti Te'o played for a team NOT NAMED NOTRE DAME, is he even in the conversation??? NOPE!!



Totally agree with this observation.

[Rabid Cougar]

Go back and look at Te'o's stats compared to some other LBers that never even sniffed a heisman vote.

Look at these two:

Dat Nguyen- 51 consecutive starts, 517 career tackles and a 10.7 tackles-per-game average.
6 interceptions.
4 sacks.
5 fumbles recovered.

T'eo- 48 starts, 422 careers tackles and a 8.8 tackles-per game-average.
6 interceptions
8.5 sacks.
2 fumbles recovered.

Senior year alone
Dat
147 total tackles
20 tackles for loss
4 sacks
2 fumbles recovered
2 ints (at least)

Teo
98 total tackles
5.5 for loss
1.5 sacks
2 fumbles recovered
6 (or 7) interceptions

Dat Nguyen for Hiesman!!!!

[msu97]

Go back and look at Te'o's stats compared to some other LBers that never even sniffed a heisman vote.

Look at these two:

Dat Nguyen- 51 consecutive starts, 517 career tackles and a 10.7 tackles-per-game average.
6 interceptions.
4 sacks.
5 fumbles recovered.

T'eo- 48 starts, 422 careers tackles and a 8.8 tackles-per game-average.
6 interceptions
8.5 sacks.
2 fumbles recovered.

Senior year alone
Dat
147 total tackles
20 tackles for loss
4 sacks
2 fumbles recovered
2 ints (at least)

Teo
98 total tackles
5.5 for loss
1.5 sacks
2 fumbles recovered
6 (or 7) interceptions
knew it was a matter of time and Macarthur comes out with this... you do know that 3 of the leading tacklers play for the university of Houston... that is one great defense... Te'o cannot help that he makes his defense great...

so, why was not Case Keenum put up for any awards? I mean he put up these numbers in Sumlins offense?

manziel is a great player, but one could argue that with Kolb and Keenum that Manziel is just a product of the system...

[Macarthur]

knew it was a matter of time and Macarthur comes out with this... you do know that 3 of the leading tacklers play for the university of Houston... that is one great defense... Te'o cannot help that he makes his defense great...

so, why was not Case Keenum put up for any awards? I mean he put up these numbers in Sumlins offense?

manziel is a great player, but one could argue that with Kolb and Keenum that Manziel is just a product of the system...

If you read the entirety of my posts, I give Te'o credit for being a very good player. Numbers aren't everything, but they are important. How else do we judge someone's impact.

As for Kolb and Keenum, if they had done what they did against an SEC sechedule, absolutely they should have been in the mix.

[Rabid Cougar]

knew it was a matter of time and Macarthur comes out with this... you do know that 3 of the leading tacklers play for the university of Houston... that is one great defense... Te'o cannot help that he makes his defense great...

so, why was not Case Keenum put up for any awards? I mean he put up these numbers in Sumlins offense?

manziel is a great player, but one could argue that with Kolb and Keenum that Manziel is just a product of the system...

Same can be said for Kingsbury and the other QBs at TT. All those QBs put up great numbers, but mostly passing numbers thus the "system" moniker.
Manziel does "things" that those guys could only dream of that have nothing to do with the "system".

[Macarthur]

Dat Nguyen for Hiesman!!!!

Dat is just one example. I posted some numbers on Jarvis Jones too.

[msu97]

At least I can see over the bar without having to stand on a stool to get a beer.

But I can still get a beer... sometimes it is fun to let your feet dangle... when is the last time you have seen your feet fatty

[msu97]

Same can be said for Kingsbury and the other QBs at TT. All those QBs put up great numbers, but mostly passing numbers thus the "system" moniker.
Manziel does "things" that those guys could only dream of that have nothing to do with the "system".

if you truly want to know which Aggies deserve the Heisman, then it is simple... Matthews or Joeckle... the amount of time that Manziel has to throw the ball is unreal... those two guys are BEASTS...

[Macarthur]

http://www.rantsports.com/ncaa-football/2012/11/27/johnny-manziel-vs-manti-teo-settling-the-heisman-argument/

Here's a decent article about the decision.

[msu97]

it is a good argument... I have no problem with Manziel winning it, I am just a purest and if any freshman ever deserved to win the Heisman it was Herschel Walker,
I go back to win Eric Crouch won it at Nebraska, Randle El had better numbers at qb at Indiana that same year and did not win it... so you could argue that Crouch was not even the best qb so how can he be the best player...
You can make the argument that Manziel is not the best qb in college football... he may not even be the best freshman qb...Braxton Miller is undefeated at Ohio State with great numbers and is Mariota at Oregon...
if losses are no big deal then why not give it to the best player in college football who is at USC, Marquise Lee?

[Rabid Cougar]

it is a good argument... I have no problem with Manziel winning it, I am just a purest and if any freshman ever deserved to win the Heisman it was Herschel Walker,
I go back to win Eric Crouch won it at Nebraska, Randle El had better numbers at qb at Indiana that same year and did not win it... so you could argue that Crouch was not even the best qb so how can he be the best player...
You can make the argument that Manziel is not the best qb in college football... he may not even be the best freshman qb...Braxton Miller is undefeated at Ohio State with great numbers and is Mariota at Oregon...
if losses are no big deal then why not give it to the best player in college football who is at USC, Marquise Lee?

100% agree with Herschel. El at Indiana vs Crouch at Nebraska, easy to see why that happened. How many time was El on national TV? The same thing with Bob III and Manziel. Manziel is pulling this off every week on national TV no matter if its against La Tech or Alabama.

[Rabid Cougar]

This.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40426394

[Buff42]

MacArthur must be on welfare. Or a starving college student. Seriously dude, how do you have so much time to do all this research???????

[oldtownag]

it is a good argument... I have no problem with Manziel winning it, I am just a purest and if any freshman ever deserved to win the Heisman it was Herschel Walker,
I go back to win Eric Crouch won it at Nebraska, Randle El had better numbers at qb at Indiana that same year and did not win it... so you could argue that Crouch was not even the best qb so how can he be the best player...
You can make the argument that Manziel is not the best qb in college football... he may not even be the best freshman qb...Braxton Miller is undefeated at Ohio State with great numbers and is Mariota at Oregon...
if losses are no big deal then why not give it to the best player in college football who is at USC, Marquise Lee?


Freshman bias is a bunch of bull!. How many deserving people had a Heisman year but did not get the recognition because they were a freshman? Adrian Peterson comes to mind.

If they are the best give them the award. Johnny Football is very deserving!

[Red Bull]

Heisman votes are very regional if there is no clear, landslide winner. Johnny should win SEC country easily. The east will be MT's. The other first place votes get split between other candidates and these two. Johnny should get a ton of 2nd place votes in each region to carry him to the award. Remember it is award that goes out to "most outstanding player" not most valuable player off of the winningest team. Tebow and RGIII won it with 3 losses each. JFF has two losses to two top 10 teams in the country. To me that is enough. The only reason he does not win is becasue he is freshman and that bias plays out strongly in the voting.

[Saggy Aggie]

it is a good argument... I have no problem with Manziel winning it, I am just a purest and if any freshman ever deserved to win the Heisman it was Herschel Walker,
I go back to win Eric Crouch won it at Nebraska, Randle El had better numbers at qb at Indiana that same year and did not win it... so you could argue that Crouch was not even the best qb so how can he be the best player...
You can make the argument that Manziel is not the best qb in college football... he may not even be the best freshman qb...Braxton Miller is undefeated at Ohio State with great numbers and is Mariota at Oregon...
if losses are no big deal then why not give it to the best player in college football who is at USC, Marquise Lee?

Lol this guy is unbelievable? Braxton Miller better than Manziel? Who have they played? Nobody! Big 10 is horrible...

Mariota? You cant be serious? Manziel is the best player on a relevant team in the country and its not close.

Yeah sure, Marquise Lee might be the best player in the country but USC is horrible. Wins dont mean everything... but you cant play for a terrible team and win the heisman.

Just consider what A&M's expectations were heading into this year... then look at where they are now. Manziel is the reason. His stats coupled with one of the bigger turnarounds in a 1 year span should give him the trophy.

[Z's daddy]

He is the most deserving. But we all know deserve has got nothing to do with it. It usually goes to the best player on the best team. Adrian Peterson had the best season by a Freshman RB in the history of CFB, yet did not win back in 2004. Finished second to Matt Leinart. He was the best player that year, and they won the BCS championship. But Leinart had been the starter for 2 years following Carson Palmer, and had better numbers than Palmer's Heisman year. Manziel has put up better numbers than Tebow and Newton, and set the SEC total yardage record with 4600. However, there are too many "old school" voters who do not believe that a Freshman should win the Heisman, no matter what kind of season they have put together. He is their best player. Even if you do not like him (for whatever reason), you cannot deny the kind of season he has had. Not an Aggie supporter by any means. But he has been the most dynamic player this year. If Collin Klein has a big game against Texas, he could still win it as many voters would forgive him for having a bag game against Baylor. Manti Te'o is the best defensive player in the nation, and the best player on the #1 team in the BCS. His 7 INTs as a MLB is among the NCAA leaders, plus his 100+ tackles. Marquis Lee at USC is the best WR in the country, but they have lost 4 games this year. Braxton Miller has led Ohio State to an undefeated record, yet they are not eligible for their own conference championship or bowl game. I think it will be Te'o, Manzell, Klein; although it should go to Manziel.

[J2M2SR]

Most deserving?????? Wow

[Z's daddy]

So who is more deserving and why?

[RattlerNation60]

There are arguments for everyone. Manziel was only "in the running" after Alabama, which was his case maker. If you were to ask me, (which I'm a huge aggie fan, who lives in college Station), the Heisman should be a Junior and Senior honor. Period. Giving the most prestigious award in College Football to a freshman, redshirt or not, builds an ego that can end up hurting a team.

Say what you will about Johnny Football, he is a great football player, but give it to a senior. Someone who has played for four hard years and put in the work over any underclassmen.

If Manziel is as good as he seems to be, he has 3 more seasons to pick it up.

[Z's daddy]

But the Heisman is for the Most Outstanding Player, not Best Junior or Senior. And the attitude it should go to someone who has put in 4 hard years of work is crazy. Cam Newton was one and done at Auburn after two years of JUCO ball. The greatest season by a running back was by a one year starter that was a Junior (Barry Sanders). RG3 had a season ending injury as a Junior that kept him out for most of the year. Tebow won it as a Sophomore first year starter. And people felt Peterson would win one before he left OU, but injuries keep that from happening. You never know what will happen in the years to come. If he is the best player this year, then he deserves it this year.

[Z's daddy]

And it seems you are more worried about the affect it will have on the Aggies in the future, and less about who actually wins the award.

[J2M2SR]

I think he has earned it. Hands down manziel earned it

[Z's daddy]

So it was wording, not disagreement. Got it. He has earned it more than anyone else.

[FB-fanatic]

There are arguments for everyone. Manziel was only "in the running" after Alabama, which was his case maker. If you were to ask me, (which I'm a huge aggie fan, who lives in college Station), the Heisman should be a Junior and Senior honor. Period. Giving the most prestigious award in College Football to a freshman, redshirt or not, builds an ego that can end up hurting a team.

Say what you will about Johnny Football, he is a great football player, but give it to a senior. Someone who has played for four hard years and put in the work over any underclassmen.

If Manziel is as good as he seems to be, he has 3 more seasons to pick it up.

I disagree. Give it to the best player of the year, period. You never know when that Freshman or Sophomore year could be your last due to injury. If you are "the best", then award for being the best.

[bp80884]

Te'o should win the Heisman not "Johnny turnover"

You are probably a n Obama lover too!

[bigwood33]

Pancho, I don't usually disagree with you but on this one, I do. I believe that Manziel is the most exciting football player in college football since Barry Sanders and I believe he is the best player this year. Te'o is the most solid player on a very solid team...maybe the best in the country. If a linebacker was ever to win the Heisman, it was last season, not this one. Luke Kuechly from BC should have probably won it last year. Kuechly led the nation with an astounding 191 tackles (102 solo) during the season, averaging nearly 16 tackles per game. Te'o's line reads 103 tackles, 53 solo through 12 games. That is 8.5 tackles per game.

[defense51]

I disagree. Give it to the best player of the year, period. You never know when that Freshman or Sophomore year could be your last due to injury. If you are "the best", then award for being the best.

:ditto:

[LionFan72]

Dang, rough crowd here! Manziel is the "Best" player in college football this year. He has shown growth while playing in the toughest league in the nation, against the best defenses, hands down. I sure as heck am no aggie fan, but the kid has proven himself, period! Give him the award this year, let him earn it again next year.

[pancho villa]

1st Te'o is on an undefeated team.(12-0)
2nd he is the best player on a defense that is one of the best in the country.(12-0)
3rd if it was not for the AGGIE defense Manzel for Heisman would be a moot point.

[buff4ever]

1st Te'o is on an undefeated team.(12-0)
2nd he is the best player on a defense that is one of the best in the country.(12-0)
3rd if it was not for the AGGIE defense Manzel for Heisman would be a moot point.

The aggie defense is good this year, the ND offense did score some points as well that if that hadn't, ND wouldn't be undefeated either. So your third point is ridiculous. Johnny's stats on offense are far superior to Te'o's on defense.

[Lion70]

The aggie defense is good this year, the ND offense did score some points as well that if that hadn't, ND wouldn't be undefeated either. So your third point is ridiculous. Johnny's stats on offense are far superior to Te'o's on defense.

I have a feeling he knows very little about Football and probably dislikes A&M. Let me guess he is a fan of the Big 12 lol yeah were shocked.

[pancho villa]

The aggie defense is good this year, the ND offense did score some points as well that if that hadn't, ND wouldn't be undefeated either. So your third point is ridiculous. Johnny's stats on offense are far superior to Te'o's on defense.

Are you speaking English? (the ND offense did score some points as well that if that hadn't,ND wouldn't be undefeated either)

[pancho villa]

I have a feeling he knows very little about Football and probably dislikes A&M. Let me guess he is a fan of the Big 12 lol yeah were shocked.

LOL, I have forgotten more football than you have ever known or will ever know.

[Lion70]

LOL, I have forgotten more football than you have ever known or will ever know.

and you would know that how yeah thats what I thought. Just because you may be an old fart doesn't make you all knowing. Your posts say otherwise .

[pancho villa]

and you would know that how yeah thats what I thought. Just because you may be an old fart doesn't make you all knowing. Your posts say otherwise .

Because I think Te'o should win the Heisman i don't know football?
Take off those maroon colored glasses and see the world!

[Hater]

Mariota? You cant be serious? Manziel is the best player on a relevant team in the country and its not close.

Yeah sure, Marquise Lee might be the best player in the country but USC is horrible. Wins dont mean everything... but you cant play for a terrible team and win the heisman. .


So Oregon isn't relevant and USC is "horrible" ........and you're calling people unbelievable??? Come on man..

Oregon is a BCS team.....they're relevant. Do I think that Mariota should win the Heisman, no...but he's definitely on a relevant team.

And yes, USC is down, but they're FAR from horrible. Heck, are they really that much different than the 9-3 Baylor team that had a Heisman winner last year? 4 of their 5 losses came to ranked teams....I'll agree that they're a HUGE disappointment, but they are FAR FAR FAR from horrible.

[Extiger12]

I spit on tu!!!!

"Johnny crybaby"

Please explain how Manziel has complained about anything? People tween their knees, right? Yeah he is a humble player at the college level! Don't be jealous he doesn't play for the "all mighty" Irish.. Smh.. Nothing wrong with manti te'o he is a great player but c'mon lets be realistic here Manziel can make plays and has been all year! If a freshman were to win heisman he would be a deserving one!

[Hater]

Explain to me how Johnny is "humble"? I'm not saying he is, I'm not saying he isn't.....all I'm saying is that it's kinda hard to form an opinion when he just spoke to the media for the first time THIS WEEK, right? And he's never been allowed to speak to the press post game when emotions are running high (Sumlin rule: no first year players talk to the press).

I just don't understand how people get on here and give opinions with no supporting facts.. Makes me think you're full of it..

[Old Tiger]

Te'O's stats are comparable to Charles Woodson the year he won the heisman.

[pancho villa]

I never said I like ND! i just think Te'o should win the Heisman not 'Johnny Turnover"
i want the Aggies to win every game, and because of their defense they are 10-2

[Extiger12]

I never said I like ND! i just think Te'o should win the Heisman not 'Johnny Turnover"
i want the Aggies to win every game, and because of their defense they are 10-2

So your saying The aggies are 10-2 just because of their defense? So the offense didnt put up 29 points on Bama, 50 plus in multiple games? Your right the aggies are only 10-2 because of their defense....

[Extiger12]

Explain to me how Johnny is "humble"? I'm not saying he is, I'm not saying he isn't.....all I'm saying is that it's kinda hard to form an opinion when he just spoke to the media for the first time THIS WEEK, right? And he's never been allowed to speak to the press post game when emotions are running high (Sumlin rule: no first year players talk to the press).

I just don't understand how people get on here and give opinions with no supporting facts.. Makes me think you're full of it..
When he is on the field he isn't a player with a bad attitude he plays the game and plays it well! Doesn't look like he talks much smack just plays his style of football!

[pancho villa]

So your saying The aggies are 10-2 just because of their defense? So the offense didnt put up 29 points on Bama, 50 plus in multiple games? Your right the aggies are only 10-2 because of their defense....

No i am saying the reason the Aggies are 10-2 is because they have a good defense. Obviously all teams need the offense to score some points. some people on here just can't understand football.

[bigwood33]

1st Te'o is on an undefeated team.(12-0)
2nd he is the best player on a defense that is one of the best in the country.(12-0)
3rd if it was not for the AGGIE defense Manzel for Heisman would be a moot point.
1st, shouldn't matter but I know that sometimes it does.
2nd, shouldn't matter but I know that sometimes it does.
3rd, Aren't you arguing against your 1st 2 reasons? If ND didn't score enough to win, Te'o would be just like any other linebacker on any other team.
4th, just for arguments sake, his numbers are unremarkable. He is a very good player...maybe great but certainly not the best player in the country. He is averaging 8.5 tackles per game. That is NOT great.

[pancho villa]

1st, shouldn't matter but I know that sometimes it does.
2nd, shouldn't matter but I know that sometimes it does.
3rd, Aren't you arguing against your 1st 2 reasons? If ND didn't score enough to win, Te'o would be just like any other linebacker on any other team.
4th, just for arguments sake, his numbers are unremarkable. He is a very good player...maybe great but certainly not the best player in the country. He is averaging 8.5 tackles per game. That is NOT great.


Just for arguments sake,his numbers are low because they force 3 and out so often. To make a lot of tackles you have to be on the field a lot!

[Extiger12]

No i am saying the reason the Aggies are 10-2 is because they have a good defense. Obviously all teams need the offense to score some points. some people on here just can't understand football.

The aggies could have the worse defense and still win the majority of their games this year! It's kinda hard to lose when your offense puts up 50 plus! It goes both ways pancho!

[pancho villa]

The aggies could have the worse defense and still win the majority of their games this year! It's kinda hard to lose when your offense puts up 50 plus! It goes both ways pancho!

They have scored a lot this season because the defense gives the offense the ball back so quick and often.

[bp80884]

I have a question for everyone. If the Aggies played the Irish, who do you think would win?

Right now, there is no team as dangerous (or hot) as the Aggies.

Additionally, although I am a fan of the Irish, they are a sitting duck for the BCS game. IMO they are going to get man handled by a far superior Offense and Manti is going not going to be quite as dominate.

The Irish have not player an SEC type schedule for their undefeated record (not taking anything away from what they have done).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RattlerNation60]

I disagree. Give it to the best player of the year, period. You never know when that Freshman or Sophomore year could be your last due to injury. If you are "the best", then award for being the best.

I see that, and I can agree with that too. I'm just looking at it from the mental aspect of the player. What if your ego gets so big that you start playing TOO confidently. That causes bad decisions. I would like to see him get it, it would be great if he did even if he is just a freshman.

As for the argument that he doesn't deserve it I think that's just emotionally based. Looking at it logically he is in almost everyone's opinion and even on paper, one of the best in college football. It's hard to make a case for a defensive player.

Reason? Okay, I'll feed you baby birds...

Manti is a great player, but he's also a defensive player in an offensively minded world. If Manti Te'o played for a team that isn't as prestigious, say Iowa State or Hawaii, would the same argument be made right now? No. Now would he still be one of the best players in the nation? Yes. But a Heisman candidate? Probably not. The Heisman vote and all awards are given out based on what? Popularity and dynamic play.

Manziel got the jump over everyone because he helped his team do something unexpected, beat Alabama. He's dynamic. You can splatter your opinion of him all over the place but there's no denying that he is one of (if not THE) most dynamic players on the field.

But once again, while it is opinion that matters, sadly, ours aren't the ones that count.

And attacking someone for their opinion just hurts your own credibility.

[pancho villa]

Te'o will wreck Georiga!

[RattlerNation60]

And no FB-Fanatic, that last part wasn't directed at you, or anyone in particular, I just feel like it needed to be said lol.

[Extiger12]

They have scored a lot this season because the defense gives the offense the ball back so quick and often.

You have to have a good offense to stroll down the field and score with ease! It's a 2 sided argument!

[bp80884]

Te'o will wreck Georiga!

Am I the only one here that thinks poncho is is trying to stir the pot here.

I can't realistically think anyone can be that stupid, but the more he posts the more convinced I might be wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pancho villa]

Am I the only one here that thinks poncho is is trying to stir the pot here.

I can't realistically think anyone can be that stupid, but the more he posts the more convinced I might be wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You call me stupid for having an opinion? Shows how much you know! TARD

[1st and goal]

Are tamales hallucinogenic?

[bigwood33]

Just for arguments sake,his numbers are low because they force 3 and out so often. To make a lot of tackles you have to be on the field a lot!
Just for arguments sake, he had 5 tackles against USC...they ran plenty of plays.:devil:

[bp80884]

You call me stupid for having an opinion? Shows how much you know! TARD

I can read stats. 43 touchdowns and only 8 ints and you are calling him Johnny "Turnover"? When opinions are are ludicrous and obviously have no regard to reality, then you are stupid.

And the "Tard" comment shows you are more of an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Macarthur]

Te'O's stats are comparable to Charles Woodson the year he won the heisman.

I'm not sure you can compare stats when the positions are so different. Also, Woodson was not just a defensive player. Woodson also had 6 career OFFENSIVE TDs and was a dynamic returner.

[Hater]

The aggies could have the worse defense and still win the majority of their games this year! It's kinda hard to lose when your offense puts up 50 plus! It goes both ways pancho!

West Virginia, UofH, and a whole bunch of MAC teams score a lot and lose........DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! And I believe that the Ags are on their way to one because their defense is gonna be great in years to come. Even the best offenses will sputter and struggle at times (Florida & LSU games), gotta have a great D to keep you in the ballgame!!

[msu97]

[QUOTE=bp80884;1722504]I have a question for everyone. If the Aggies played the Irish, who do you think would win?

Right now, there is no team as dangerous (or hot) as the Aggies.

Additionally, although I am a fan of the Irish, they are a sitting duck for the BCS game. IMO they are going to get man handled by a far superior Offense and Manti is going not going to be quite as dominate.

this right here shows why Pancho is right and why some of you cannot think for themselves... let see, ND is a defense first, big Oline, power running football team... just like SEC teams... you only think ND will get dominated because they are not in the SEC... Stanford is alot more dangerous than ATM right now... and they lost to ND... USC is far superior offensively than any team in the SEC, and ND beat them as well... some of you are so blinded you cannot see anything straight...
right now, JFF is the front runner, Manti has a shot... but as I have been saying, JFF has had one great game that counts, putting up 50 against SHSU, Ole Miss, La Tech, South Carolina St and the like does not count... but he had a great game against Alabama... Colin Klein will play on prime time Saturday night against a bad TExas defense... so he could concievably put up unreal numbers and then he could be the front runner again...
some of you truly need to step away from the kool aid...

The Irish have not player an SEC type schedule for their undefeated record (not taking anything away from what they have done).


and the Irish have only played FBS schools, and if you think playing Ole Miss, Miss St, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, Auburn, Kentucky, Vanderbuilt and whatever else directional schools the SEC plays, then you are way off

[msu97]

oh yeah, and I forgot, pancho is really fat

[LionFan72]

[QUOTE=bp80884;1722504]I have a question for everyone. If the Aggies played the Irish, who do you think would win?

Right now, there is no team as dangerous (or hot) as the Aggies.

Additionally, although I am a fan of the Irish, they are a sitting duck for the BCS game. IMO they are going to get man handled by a far superior Offense and Manti is going not going to be quite as dominate.

The Irish have not player an SEC type schedule for their undefeated record (not taking anything away from what they have done).


This is quite The Statement, coouldn't agree more!

[whitelightning5]

[QUOTE=bp80884;1722504]I have a question for everyone. If the Aggies played the Irish, who do you think would win?

Right now, there is no team as dangerous (or hot) as the Aggies.

Additionally, although I am a fan of the Irish, they are a sitting duck for the BCS game. IMO they are going to get man handled by a far superior Offense and Manti is going not going to be quite as dominate.

this right here shows why Pancho is right and why some of you cannot think for themselves... let see, ND is a defense first, big Oline, power running football team... just like SEC teams... you only think ND will get dominated because they are not in the SEC... Stanford is alot more dangerous than ATM right now... and they lost to ND... USC is far superior offensively than any team in the SEC, and ND beat them as well... some of you are so blinded you cannot see anything straight...
right now, JFF is the front runner, Manti has a shot... but as I have been saying, JFF has had one great game that counts, putting up 50 against SHSU, Ole Miss, La Tech, South Carolina St and the like does not count... but he had a great game against Alabama... Colin Klein will play on prime time Saturday night against a bad TExas defense... so he could concievably put up unreal numbers and then he could be the front runner again...
some of you truly need to step away from the kool aid...

The Irish have not player an SEC type schedule for their undefeated record (not taking anything away from what they have done).


and the Irish have only played FBS schools, and if you think playing Ole Miss, Miss St, Missouri, Tennessee, Arkansas, Auburn, Kentucky, Vanderbuilt and whatever else directional schools the SEC plays, then you are way off

If aTm were to play Notre Dame....Manziel goes for 300 total yards and 2 TDs while Te'o records 6 tackles. Te'o wins the Heisman based on that performance.....lol.

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722651]

If aTm were to play Notre Dame....Manziel goes for 300 total yards and 2 TDs while Te'o records 6 tackles. Te'o wins the Heisman based on that performance.....lol.
this is crazy talk... no way... Teo is the most gifted LB out there... now, granted, like I have said before... ATM's oline should get the majority of the credit because they are phenomenal, but USC is way more gifted on offense than ATM... it would be a close game... but ND would win by about 7... again, this proves that some of yall cannot create your own thoughts...

[BEAST]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1722666]
this is crazy talk... no way... Teo is the most gifted LB out there... now, granted, like I have said before... ATM's oline should get the majority of the credit because they are phenomenal, but USC is way more gifted on offense than ATM... it would be a close game... but ND would win by about 7... again, this proves that some of yall cannot create your own thoughts...

I disagree about USC. They may have more "5 star" guys, they may be faster and whatever else you could say. But, this A&M is different. JF is a gamebreaker unlike any I have seen in a while. If they had the chance to play Florida and LSU they way they are playing now, the Ags would be getting ready to play in SEC Title game. A&M would USC.




BEAST

[movethechain]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1722666]
this is crazy talk... no way... Teo is the most gifted LB out there... now, granted, like I have said before... ATM's oline should get the majority of the credit because they are phenomenal, but USC is way more gifted on offense than ATM... it would be a close game... but ND would win by about 7... again, this proves that some of yall cannot create your own thoughts...

USC not nearly as good without Barkley. ND got a pass on that game. What can we say, the Irish are truly lucky.

[pancho villa]

I can read stats. 43 touchdowns and only 8 ints and you are calling him Johnny "Turnover"? When opinions are are ludicrous and obviously have no regard to reality, then you are stupid.

And the "Tard" comment shows you are more of an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 int's vs LSU cost them a shot at SEC championship game. Just saying.

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1722666]
this is crazy talk... no way... Teo is the most gifted LB out there... now, granted, like I have said before... ATM's oline should get the majority of the credit because they are phenomenal, but USC is way more gifted on offense than ATM... it would be a close game... but ND would win by about 7... again, this proves that some of yall cannot create your own thoughts...

Te'o isn't even the best defensive player in the nation. Give me a break.

[Macarthur]

3 int's vs LSU cost them a shot at SEC championship game. Just saying.

JFF certainly had his worst game aginst them, but keep in mind, 2 of those INTs were deflections off his WRs hands.

[whitelightning5]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1722666]
this is crazy talk... no way... Teo is the most gifted LB out there... now, granted, like I have said before... ATM's oline should get the majority of the credit because they are phenomenal, but USC is way more gifted on offense than ATM... it would be a close game... but ND would win by about 7... again, this proves that some of yall cannot create your own thoughts...

That was meant to be a smarta$$ comment. Dont go getting your britches all crossed up. And just because we don't agree with what you say all the time does not mean that we can't create our own thoughts. USC has more explosive WRs than aTm (sorry Swopes and Evans), but offensively aTm is more diverse. I am a diehard USC fan and can call it like it is. Inconsistent play from QB has been the problem all year long.....ask Barkley about it. His senior year or "Year of Serious Unfinished Business" has been everything but. He is a good QB (probably first rounder), but his performance isnt where it was last year because he has tried to do too much and has forced way too many throws (leading to turnovers). Since this thread is only about Te'o, I guess I dont need to speak about USC's pathetic, undisciplined defense. Bottom line.....if aTm and USC were to play....who do you think would win? I think aTm pulls this out because of the magic of Manziel. USC can't stop anyone. I say Barkley forces one too many throws and that leads to 1 too many turnovers. This was my long-winded approach to say that aTm is better than USC. I think Manziel pulls it out vs. the vaunted Te'o. As I've said before, if the Heisman is to go to the best player in the country....give it to Marquise Lee.

[Extiger12]

West Virginia, UofH, and a whole bunch of MAC teams score a lot and lose........DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!! And I believe that the Ags are on their way to one because their defense is gonna be great in years to come. Even the best offenses will sputter and struggle at times (Florida & LSU games), gotta have a great D to keep you in the ballgame!!

Yes that is the MAC not a very competitive conference...the best defense is a good offense!

[Z's daddy]

I never said I like ND! i just think Te'o should win the Heisman not 'Johnny Turnover"
i want the Aggies to win every game, and because of their defense they are 10-2

The Aggies defense did not allow them to beat La. Tech. And as far as being "Johnny Turnover", unless he has a high number of fumbles lost, he has only thrown 8 INTs, and has a TD to INT ratio of 3:1 which very good. Oh, and he leads the SEC in Rushing yards and TDs...as a Freshman...QB. Did he beat your High school in the playoffs or something. Still not sure why you hate Manziel so much.

[Z's daddy]

Manti is a great player, but he's also a defensive player in an offensively minded world. If Manti Te'o played for a team that isn't as prestigious, say Iowa State or Hawaii, would the same argument be made right now? No. Now would he still be one of the best players in the nation? Yes. But a Heisman candidate? Probably not. The Heisman vote and all awards are given out based on what? Popularity and dynamic play.

If Notre Dame was 9-3 we would not be talking about Manti. The fact is, is that he is the most dynamic player on one of the top defenses in the nation, and the #1 team in the BCS standings, and they are 12-0. His tackle total is not amazing (101), but he is tied for 2nd in the nation with 7 INTs as an MLB. He also seems to always be in the right place to make a big tackle or play when they need it. That makes him dynamic. That along with voters hating to vote for a Freshman is why I believe he will be the Heisman winner.

[Emerson1]

This is going to be another Troy Smith year. A guy wins just because they have to pick someone.

[Old Tiger]

The Heisman is a joke and has been for the last 10-15 years.

[garciap77]

The Heisman is a joke and has been for the last 10-15 years.

Hey Go Blue!!! I thought you were jumping on our Bandwagon???

[Z's daddy]

Manziel's stats: 4600 total yards (SEC Record), 43 total TDs. Big win - at Alabama (#1 at the time). Leads SEC in rushing yards & TDs.
Teo's Stats: 101 tackles, 7 INTs (T2nd NCAA). Leader on #1 BCS Team. Big win - at OU
Lee's Stats: 112 Rec (#1 NCAA), 1680 yards (#2 NCAA), 14 TDS (#3 NCAA), 28.6 avg on KR w/1 TD

If Klein has a big game against Texas this week, and he could easily become the frontrunner again. Voters tend to forgive one bad performance. Problem is his bad game was the last one he played. USC has not played up to expectations (preseason #1). Barkley has been up and down, and the defense has been inconsistent. Losses to Oregon, Stanford, and Notre Dame are understandable as good as these teams are. But to lose to Arizona (whom Oregon beat 49-0) is unacceptable. Arizona is better, but USC has far better talent. USC has played up (or down) to their competition this year, which has not been the norm.

Notre Dame has beaten everyone put in front of them. Even though they should have lost to PITT and Stanford (both home games).

I think Manziel should win the Heisman because I feel he has been the best player this year and has meant the most to their team. Take him off of their team, and I believe they are only 7-5 at best. He is the biggest reason they are 10-2. Not the only reason, but the biggest reason. Their defense is much better than last year, but they are also playing less "dynamic" offenses in the SEC than they did in the Big 12. They are also playing better defenses in the SEC, and he has allowed them to be the most dynamic team in the conference.

However, based on Heisman history, the voters have been reluctant to vote for a Freshman, and that is why I believe Te'o will win the Heisman.

My vote: Manziel, Te'o, Lee, Klein
My projection: Te'o, Manziel, Lee, Klein

[Roughneck93]

:D :D

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1729277/Elementary_My_Dear_Sumlin.gif

[Emerson1]

Klein being included this year also shows how bad of a Heisman year it is.

[bp80884]

JFF certainly had his worst game aginst them, but keep in mind, 2 of those INTs were deflections off his WRs hands.

There is nothing you can say as all he is doing is stirring the pot.

This is an extremely great year for the Heiman. The field is strong with Johnny Football, manti, Colin Klein, Kenyon Burner and a few others that are right there.

So, I am going to disagree with those who say it is a weak Heisman field.

[Emerson1]

I am failing to see what Klein is doing to be named the best player in college football. He might end the regular season with 2,500 yards passing and is an above average rushing QB who isn't going to surpass 900 yards unless Texas lets him go off. Lost to Baylor and struggled against Iowa State and North Texas.

Manti has 1.5 sacks and 6.5 TFL... His biggest thing going for him is having a unique name.

[Saggy Aggie]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1722666]
this is crazy talk... no way... Teo is the most gifted LB out there... now, granted, like I have said before... ATM's oline should get the majority of the credit because they are phenomenal, but USC is way more gifted on offense than ATM... it would be a close game... but ND would win by about 7... again, this proves that some of yall cannot create your own thoughts...

USC more gifted on offense? They have 2 good receivers. What else? You can't honestly think USC offense > A&M offense....

[Emerson1]

You can't say that Te'o is the most gifted LB in the nation and then bash people for not creating their own thoughts.

[RattlerNation60]

Kirk Herbstreet will win the Heisman.

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722670]

Te'o isn't even the best defensive player in the nation. Give me a break.
and Manziel is not even the best qb in the nation soooo...

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722670]

That was meant to be a smarta$$ comment. Dont go getting your britches all crossed up. And just because we don't agree with what you say all the time does not mean that we can't create our own thoughts. USC has more explosive WRs than aTm (sorry Swopes and Evans), but offensively aTm is more diverse. I am a diehard USC fan and can call it like it is. Inconsistent play from QB has been the problem all year long.....ask Barkley about it. His senior year or "Year of Serious Unfinished Business" has been everything but. He is a good QB (probably first rounder), but his performance isnt where it was last year because he has tried to do too much and has forced way too many throws (leading to turnovers). Since this thread is only about Te'o, I guess I dont need to speak about USC's pathetic, undisciplined defense. Bottom line.....if aTm and USC were to play....who do you think would win? I think aTm pulls this out because of the magic of Manziel. USC can't stop anyone. I say Barkley forces one too many throws and that leads to 1 too many turnovers. This was my long-winded approach to say that aTm is better than USC. I think Manziel pulls it out vs. the vaunted Te'o. As I've said before, if the Heisman is to go to the best player in the country....give it to Marquise Lee.
now I agree with your last statement... Lee is by far the best player in the country... but I do not think ATM can beat USC... I mean, USC is not like playing La Tech or SHSU... ATM is only 1-2 against the only good teams that they have played this year...

[bp80884]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1722695]
and Manziel is not even the best qb in the nation soooo...

I respectfully disagree with you both. Again, this is my opinion as I believe both are.

I just believe JF deserves it more (part homer vote and part he has earned it).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[msu97]

The Aggies defense did not allow them to beat La. Tech. And as far as being "Johnny Turnover", unless he has a high number of fumbles lost, he has only thrown 8 INTs, and has a TD to INT ratio of 3:1 which very good. Oh, and he leads the SEC in Rushing yards and TDs...as a Freshman...QB. Did he beat your High school in the playoffs or something. Still not sure why you hate Manziel so much.
I doubt Tivy played where Pancho coached... too long of a drive... Pancho's team has been very good the last few years

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722670]

USC more gifted on offense? They have 2 good receivers. What else? You can't honestly think USC offense > A&M offense....

Beyond a doubt they are more gifted... not as gifted as Oregon but definitely more gifted than any team in teh SEC, and the Big 12...

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1722695]
and Manziel is not even the best qb in the nation soooo...

Who's better?

[Lion70]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722929]

Who's better?

I bet he thinks the texas longhorns are a better team as well. Clearly he doesn't watch much football.

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722929]

Who's better?
lets see McCarron, Florence, Barkley, Mariota, Miller... according to the AFCA Taj Boyd...
and I know you will say that Manziel beat McCarron but Driskell and Mettenberger beat Manziel and Manziel is clearly better than those two...

Again, you aggies get all bent out of shape just because someone disagrees with you... manziel is a great player... but you will say that Florence is a product of a system... you could say the same thing about Manziel... I mean Case Keenum was very successful under Sumlin...

and UT might be, again might be, the 5th best team in the Big 12... ATM is now clearly better... but UT this year is 1-0 v SEC... so that does not speak well for your conference... and that team made Ash look like an all american as well and Ash is average at best...

[Lion70]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1722942]
lets see McCarron, Florence, Barkley, Mariota, Miller... according to the AFCA Taj Boyd...
and I know you will say that Manziel beat McCarron but Driskell and Mettenberger beat Manziel and Manziel is clearly better than those two...

Again, you aggies get all bent out of shape just because someone disagrees with you... manziel is a great player... but you will say that Florence is a product of a system... you could say the same thing about Manziel... I mean Case Keenum was very successful under Sumlin...

and UT might be, again might be, the 5th best team in the Big 12... ATM is now clearly better... but UT this year is 1-0 v SEC... so that does not speak well for your conference... and that team made Ash look like an all american as well and Ash is average at best...

Your honestly bragging about 6-6 ole miss lol . You delusional bevo 10 fans make me laugh eveytime. Also comparing players that have more than two losses = better great logic

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1722942]
lets see McCarron, Florence, Barkley, Mariota, Miller... according to the AFCA Taj Boyd...
and I know you will say that Manziel beat McCarron but Driskell and Mettenberger beat Manziel and Manziel is clearly better than those two...

Again, you aggies get all bent out of shape just because someone disagrees with you... manziel is a great player... but you will say that Florence is a product of a system... you could say the same thing about Manziel... I mean Case Keenum was very successful under Sumlin...

and UT might be, again might be, the 5th best team in the Big 12... ATM is now clearly better... but UT this year is 1-0 v SEC... so that does not speak well for your conference... and that team made Ash look like an all american as well and Ash is average at best...

First, I'm not an aggie.

2nd, Anyone that isn't a jackass isn't going to use head to head to judge which is better. Numbers are a part of it but you also have to consider who it was done against. Florence is not better than JFF. If you think so, you're a football idiot. I may give you that Barkley might be better, but he simply hasn't played very well this year. Mariota is very comparable to JFF, but he's had more games where he's struggled a bit. MILLER?! Dude, have you compared their stats? And the Big 10 is not a strong conf.

No one cares that you disagree. What should be expected is that if you hold a position, especially when it's a somewhat contradictory position, is to be able to defend that position with some degree of logic and data to support that position.

[pancho villa]

The Aggies defense did not allow them to beat La. Tech. And as far as being "Johnny Turnover", unless he has a high number of fumbles lost, he has only thrown 8 INTs, and has a TD to INT ratio of 3:1 which very good. Oh, and he leads the SEC in Rushing yards and TDs...as a Freshman...QB. Did he beat your High school in the playoffs or something. Still not sure why you hate Manziel so much.

It makes me laugh at the funny things people say on here. "Defense wins championships"

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722951]

Your honestly bragging about 6-6 ole miss lol . You delusional bevo 10 fans make me laugh eveytime. Also comparing players that have more than two losses = better great logic

sorry lion, I only root for UT for 2 reasons, one of those reasons is about to graduate, the other only has 2 more years, after that, no ties, unless another kid gets recruited there.... I mean you can keep saying that I am UT fan if it makes you feel better, but I am not... I mean I root for Colorado State, Oregon, Houston, UH, Missouri, Wake Forest, Oklahoma State, SMU, Baylor, McMurry, Howard Payne, Marietta, Belhaven, Trinity, Tyler Jr College and anywhere any one of my former students play... next year add La Tech, Maybe Utah, and others where this years seniors will play...
in all honesty, if I had to root primarily for any school, I would more than likely choose LSU since there is nothing like being at a game, at night, in Baton Rouge... truly one of the greatest experiences any college football fan can have... and they are an average team this year as well... and they beat ATM

[StangEm]

i dont think manziel will win, simply because voters won't vote for a freshman.
i hope the te'o doesnt win though.

Wow.....that was insightful. Good job.

[msu97]

[QUOTE=bp80884;1722931][QUOTE=msu97;1722929]

I respectfully disagree with you both. Again, this is my opinion as I believe both are.

I just believe JF deserves it more (part homer vote and part he has earned it).
I think you and I are the only ones who are rational... JFF is a great football player, and he very well may win and I can see why people would see how he is deserving... but one great game should not a Heisman win... He is only 1-2 against legit teams... not very good... Lee is a receiver and cannot control his quarterback but he has performed week in and week out... klein should take a hit against Baylor... All Teo has done is make his defense the best... that defense has led that team to a 12-0 season... if you know anything about defense... tackles are not the end all be all... how many teams has he filled the hole on ISO or Power to aid another man making the stop... how many times has he dropped back in coverage to make the qb throw somewhere else...

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722951]

First, I'm not an aggie.

2nd, Anyone that isn't a jackass isn't going to use head to head to judge which is better. Numbers are a part of it but you also have to consider who it was done against. Florence is not better than JFF. If you think so, you're a football idiot. I may give you that Barkley might be better, but he simply hasn't played very well this year. Mariota is very comparable to JFF, but he's had more games where he's struggled a bit. MILLER?! Dude, have you compared their stats? And the Big 10 is not a strong conf.

No one cares that you disagree. What should be expected is that if you hold a position, especially when it's a somewhat contradictory position, is to be able to defend that position with some degree of logic and data to support that position.
I am okay with being a jackass, really does not bother me... why not Miller? I mean he did go undefeated... that is not an easy task...numbers are clearly in favor of Florence... I mean, Manziel has the two best tackles in the nation protecting him... that is clearly a huge advantage... Mariota has struggled in 1 game, 1... JFF in two... you say compare stats but only who they are against...SMU, South Carolina State,Arkansas, Ole Miss, La Tech, Auburn, Miss State, and SHSU,Missouri, wow, that right there is tough competition... not taking anything away from Manziel, the kid is truly a talent... but that schedule? how is Miller's or Mariota's not as tuff or tougher... in some of his games mariota did not play in the 2nd half... manziel was still in the game when they were clearly blowing out Missouri... padding stats... I mean why not Florence... he is at baylor where the requirements to get in are alot tougher than any school ATM plays...

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1722961]
.. why not Miller? I mean he did go undefeated... that is not an easy task...

Because his numbers are not better and just the eyeball test tells you JFF is better. Miller is very good. I think you also need to look at what this player did for his respective program. I don't think anyone will question that JFF brought A&M further than any of those guys.


numbers are clearly in favor of Florence...

I think Florence has been somewhat overlooked this year, but I also have to factor in that the Big 12 defenses this year are just horrible. Can you imagine the numbers JFF would have put up against Big 12 defenses? Wow.


I mean, Manziel has the two best tackles in the nation protecting him... that is clearly a huge advantage...

So, by that logic, Richardson should not have won at Alabama because he had a great OL. Troy Aikman didn't deserve the HOF because he had a great OL and Emmitt Smith?


Mariota has struggled in 1 game, 1...

Very good numbers but still significantly below JFF. Actually two (WSU & Stan) but that may be splitting hairs.


JFF in two...

Which two? I would argue that he really only struggled against LSU and there's not shame in that. Florida did slow him down in the 2nd half, but he didn't have any turnovers.


you say compare stats but only who they are against...SMU, South Carolina State,Arkansas, Ole Miss, La Tech, Auburn, Miss State, and SHSU,Missouri, wow, that right there is tough competition...

Texas A&M's strenght of schedule is #1 in the nation as ranked by Phil Steele. Every team has a couple of weak sisters on there. A&M's schedule is one of the tougest in the nation.


not taking anything away from Manziel, the kid is truly a talent... but that schedule?

Again, you have been proven wrong one the schedule. And you do keep trying to 'take things away' from him by bringing up names that, while good, still don't measure up by objective standards.


how is Miller's or Mariota's not as tuff or tougher...

Again, A&M has the tougest schedule in football. And are you really making the argument that the Big 10 is comparable to the SEC?


in some of his games mariota did not play in the 2nd half... manziel was still in the game when they were clearly blowing out Missouri... padding stats...

Manziel sat out a ton in the 2nd half this year. Try again.


I mean why not Florence... he is at baylor where the requirements to get in are alot tougher than any school ATM plays...

Ha ha. That's a good one. Yeah, that's why Baylor isn't better because it's so hard to get into. :D

[whitelightning5]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1722706]
now I agree with your last statement... Lee is by far the best player in the country... but I do not think ATM can beat USC... I mean, USC is not like playing La Tech or SHSU... ATM is only 1-2 against the only good teams that they have played this year...

And what is USC's record vs. the only good teams they have played this year? They have lost to every ranked team that they've played (0-4) and then lost to Arizona. I would like to think that most of the lower level SEC teams are better than they average Pac 12 teams.

In the hypothetical USC and aTm matchup...I see a shoot out, but I see the Aggie defense creating more turnovers and getting more stops than the Trojans. Barkley has at least 3 "what was he thinking" throws a game.

[msu97]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723005][QUOTE=msu97;1722987]
















Which two? I would argue that he really only struggled against LSU and there's not shame in that. Florida did slow him down in the 2nd half, but he didn't have any turnovers.
He struggled against Florida in the 2nd half once Mushchamp made adjustments... still 1-2


Texas A&M's strenght of schedule is #1 in the nation as ranked by Phil Steele. Every team has a couple of weak sisters on there. A&M's schedule is one of the tougest in the nation.
The computers in teh BCS rank the Big 12 as the toughest conference but you would argue otherwise... so this does not count... and yeah, those schools I listed are terrible







Manziel sat out a ton in the 2nd half this year. Try again. oh you mean against La Tech? SHSU where he played well into the 3rd, Missouri, yeah... you are always sooooo right mcarthur...


Baylor is clearly harder to get into than any school in the SEC, of course so is ATM...

the difference is I can see where you are coming from... you cannot see where anyone is coming from... as is evident... the computers in the BCS do rank the Big 12 #1 as far as toughest conference... they are even considered by most people in college football the most complete... which would only make sense... JFF is a great football player... but to say he is clearly more deserving than Teo and Lee is ridiculous

[msu97]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722930]

And what is USC's record vs. the only good teams they have played this year? They have lost to every ranked team that they've played (0-4) and then lost to Arizona. I would like to think that most of the lower level SEC teams are better than they average Pac 12 teams.

In the hypothetical USC and aTm matchup...I see a shoot out, but I see the Aggie defense creating more turnovers and getting more stops than the Trojans. Barkley has at least 3 "what was he thinking" throws a game.
But Lee was not the reason they lost... he set an NCAA record against Arizona... ATM has noone that can cover Lee, no one... like I have said time and time again... all the Aggies have done in the SEC is show that teams that have a legit offense can win in the SEC... which they have done... if you think that the Aggies are better offensively than USC you are dillusional... the Aggies are great on offense but they are not USC... the Ags do have an advantage on Defense... but they would not stop Lee.
then lets look at this... Driskill is what 4-1 against top 25 teams? and beat JFF heads up... so why is he not getting any pub? I mean why not? some of yall keep throwing out records against teams and what not... I mean what we he had done against la tech? South Carolina State? SMU? Missouri? Ole Miss? Miss State? Arkansas? what about Braxton Miller? not like those teams are tough...
Lee is clearly the best and most dangerous player in the nation... he cannot help if his qb sucks

[whitelightning5]

[QUOTE=Saggy Aggie;1722895]

Beyond a doubt they are more gifted... not as gifted as Oregon but definitely more gifted than any team in teh SEC, and the Big 12...

Depends on how you interpret the word "gifted".....because "gifted" doesnt always equate to success.

FACT: aTm is ranked 4th in total offense....552 yards per game....scoring nearly 45 points a game. USC is ranked 37th in total offense....452 yards per game....scoring 34 points a game.

Stats speak for themselves. aTm has had a few cupcake games, but please realize that the starters didnt play the entire game. aTm has done this against SEC defenses. USC has put up these numbers against weak Pac 12 defenses (with the exception of Stanford).

If by gifted you mean that they have more talent or potential....that could be right. Could you imagine Lee and Woods playing in Sumlin's system?

[Red Bull]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't A&M play a top 10 schedule according to most strength of schedule rankings? JFF should win the Heisman, but as this thread has proven it is matter of opinion.

Good luck to Johnny and here's to hoping he brings it home for Texas just as RGIII did last year.

[pancho villa]

[QUOTE=msu97;1722987]

Because his numbers are not better and just the eyeball test tells you JFF is better. Miller is very good. I think you also need to look at what this player did for his respective program. I don't think anyone will question that JFF brought A&M further than any of those guys.



I think Florence has been somewhat overlooked this year, but I also have to factor in that the Big 12 defenses this year are just horrible. Can you imagine the numbers JFF would have put up against Big 12 defenses? Wow.



So, by that logic, Richardson should not have won at Alabama because he had a great OL. Troy Aikman didn't deserve the HOF because he had a great OL and Emmitt Smith?



Very good numbers but still significantly below JFF. Actually two (WSU & Stan) but that may be splitting hairs.



Which two? I would argue that he really only struggled against LSU and there's not shame in that. Florida did slow him down in the 2nd half, but he didn't have any turnovers.



Texas A&M's strenght of schedule is #1 in the nation as ranked by Phil Steele. Every team has a couple of weak sisters on there. A&M's schedule is one of the tougest in the nation.



Again, you have been proven wrong one the schedule. And you do keep trying to 'take things away' from him by bringing up names that, while good, still don't measure up by objective standards.



Again, A&M has the tougest schedule in football. And are you really making the argument that the Big 10 is comparable to the SEC?



Manziel sat out a ton in the 2nd half this year. Try again.



Ha ha. That's a good one. Yeah, that's why Baylor isn't better because it's so hard to get into. :D

Have you ever watched a game? Or do you just read about them online?

[msu97]

If by gifted you mean that they have more talent or potential....that could be right. Could you imagine Lee and Woods playing in Sumlin's system?[/QUOTE]
or even Gundy's system... holy crap...
again, I have no complaints against JFF, he has been a joy to watch... but I go back to that Adrian Peterson and Herschel Walker did not win Heisman's and they are clearly better than JFF, and that is not saying anything bad about JFF...
if the Aggies had a top schedule playing those teams... I would hate to see the easiest... because there are plenty of cupcakes on the Aggies schedule

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723005]

Have you ever watched a game? Or do you just read about them online?

Sure, I watch. Why?

[whitelightning5]

[QUOTE=whitelightning5;1723009]
But Lee was not the reason they lost... he set an NCAA record against Arizona... ATM has noone that can cover Lee, no one... like I have said time and time again... all the Aggies have done in the SEC is show that teams that have a legit offense can win in the SEC... which they have done... if you think that the Aggies are better offensively than USC you are dillusional... the Aggies are great on offense but they are not USC... the Ags do have an advantage on Defense... but they would not stop Lee.
then lets look at this... Driskill is what 4-1 against top 25 teams? and beat JFF heads up... so why is he not getting any pub? I mean why not? some of yall keep throwing out records against teams and what not... I mean what we he had done against la tech? South Carolina State? SMU? Missouri? Ole Miss? Miss State? Arkansas? what about Braxton Miller? not like those teams are tough...
Lee is clearly the best and most dangerous player in the nation... he cannot help if his qb sucks

Apparently your hate for aTm outweighs my liking of USC. I have been a USC fan for years, but can see through these lame excuses you're providing. No said that the reason that USC lost was because of Lee....now you're dillusional. No one in the country can cover Lee, but someone has to block for Barkley to allow him time to find Lee. USC has a suspect OL and their defense is horrible. I understand that USC is above average on offense, but if they were that unstoppable would we be looking at 5 losses this year? If Lee was that unstoppable, would they have lost with a back up QB to a top ranked defense in ND? Seems there is more to football than just having a good offense. Stanford stopped them....Notre Dame stopped them....UCLA stopped them. USC belongs in the big 12. They can outscore some people, but dont look for the defense to get a stop. If the opposing team gets 1 or 2 stops on the USC offense, they can be beat. Plain and simple. They are an undisciplined team...check the penalties for verification. 8 out of 10 times, they beat themselves. I say aTm capitalizes on these opportunities and wins. And it pisses me off to say that too.

I agree with Lee...I have been saying that he is the best player in the country. If the Heisman went to the best player, it would go to him. There are other factors that influence voting though. Records and rankings. And Barkley sucks.....thats laughable. You can't say they are the most talented offense and say the QB sucks. Come on man. With that logic, I would hate to play on your team.

[Macarthur]

oh you mean against La Tech? SHSU where he played well into the 3rd, Missouri, yeah... you are always sooooo right mcarthur...

I've actually provided some sources. Have you?



Baylor is clearly harder to get into than any school in the SEC, of course so is ATM...

Can you provide a source for this? YOu may be right; I'm not familiar with entrance standards since I've been out of college for almost 20 years. I would suspect that since you used the term 'clearly' there should be plenty of data to support this statement.


the difference is I can see where you are coming from... you cannot see where anyone is coming from... as is evident...

Wow, the irony here is rich. YOu have done nothing put provided how you 'feel' about things. Give some data or support for your positions. Give me something to convince me other that just 'what you think'.


the computers in the BCS do rank the Big 12 #1 as far as toughest conference... they are even considered by most people in college football the most complete... which would only make sense...

Well, this is a strawman. I never said the Big 12 wasn't a good conference. I said most of the defenses in the Big 12 are a joke. And that, my friend, is a fact. And who are these 'most people' your are talking about?

'which would only make sense' - what does this comment mean?


JFF is a great football player... but to say he is clearly more deserving than Teo and Lee is ridiculous

I don't think I said that. First, I actually said early in this thread that Lee might just be the best football player in the country. Go back and check it out. I don't believe I ever said JFF is clearly more deserving. I do think the hype surrounding Teo is really pretty comical. The guy isn't even the best LBer in the country and isn't the best defensive player in the country. Jarvis Jones and Clowney are both better football players than Teo. Teo is very good; don't get me wrong, but his candidacy is being fueled by media bias toward ND and the fact that they are having a good season.

[pancho villa]

[QUOTE=pancho villa;1723018]

Sure, I watch. Why?

Because you don't appear to me, to be a true football enthusiast, but more of just a stat man.

[whitelightning5]

If by gifted you mean that they have more talent or potential....that could be right. Could you imagine Lee and Woods playing in Sumlin's system?
or even Gundy's system... holy crap...
again, I have no complaints against JFF, he has been a joy to watch... but I go back to that Adrian Peterson and Herschel Walker did not win Heisman's and they are clearly better than JFF, and that is not saying anything bad about JFF...
if the Aggies had a top schedule playing those teams... I would hate to see the easiest... because there are plenty of cupcakes on the Aggies schedule[/QUOTE]

And plenty of thumpers on that schedule too. Did anyone else (Heisman worthy) in the country have to play against those crazy defenses (Alabama, Florida and LSU)?

I dont really care for aTm much....that said....give Manziel some credit. It's a weak year for the Heisman and I am hard-pressed to find anyone who deserves it more.

[Buff42]

3 int's vs LSU cost them a shot at SEC championship game. Just saying.

So did the 8 points our place kicker missed. Man, you sure have a way of twisting facts to suit your needs. Are you a lawyer by any chance?

[Macarthur]

BTW, here's a great article about it from a writer in Chicago - right in ND's back yard.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20121129/sports/711299953/

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723022]

Because you don't appear to me, to be a true football enthusiast, but more of just a stat man.

Nope. I know there is more to it than stats. IF that were the case, I would be arguing for Florence for Heisman. However, you can't simply dismiss the stats. They do tell a significant part of the story; not all, but a lot.

[whitelightning5]

So did the 8 points our place kicker missed. Man, you sure have a way of twisting facts to suit your needs. Are you a lawyer by any chance?

HAHAHAHA.....that's classic. That kicker has seem some rough games.

[msu97]

So did the 8 points our place kicker missed. Man, you sure have a way of twisting facts to suit your needs. Are you a lawyer by any chance?
why could he just not score touchdowns...
in all honesty good point... but by the same token how can Lee control bad qb play when all he does is make big plays when the ball is actually in his hands... that is your Aggie logic

[pancho villa]

So did the 8 points our place kicker missed. Man, you sure have a way of twisting facts to suit your needs. Are you a lawyer by any chance?

Oh here we go blame the kicker. You ever seen a Mexican lawyer?

[pancho villa]

[QUOTE=pancho villa;1723029]

Nope. I know there is more to it than stats. IF that were the case, I would be arguing for Florence for Heisman. However, you can't simply dismiss the stats. They do tell a significant part of the story; not all, but a lot.

Then why didn't Grahm Harrell or David Klingler win the Heisman?

[msu97]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723028]I've actually provided some sources. Have you?

check out teh BCS conference rankings... Big 12 is #1


Can you provide a source for this? YOu may be right; I'm not familiar with entrance standards since I've been out of college for almost 20 years. I would suspect that since you used the term 'clearly' there should be plenty of data to support this statement.
my daughter is a sr and it is harder and more expensive to get into Baylor, TCU and SMU... ATM was on her list as well but she chose SHSU






Well, this is a strawman. I never said the Big 12 wasn't a good conference. I said most of the defenses in the Big 12 are a joke. And that, my friend, is a fact. And who are these 'most people' your are talking about?

and from watching this year most of the defenses in the SEC are a joke... during the ATM/ Alabama broadcast they even said ALabama up front is not what it used to be... if you actually think that the majority of the teams ATM played in the SEC this year had great defenses then you truly are blind... those teams were terrible on D

[Macarthur]

and from watching this year most of the defenses in the SEC are a joke... during the ATM/ Alabama broadcast they even said ALabama up front is not what it used to be... if you actually think that the majority of the teams ATM played in the SEC this year had great defenses then you truly are blind... those teams were terrible on D

Again, you are making a strawman. How about acutally reading what I typed and answering the questions.

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723034]

Then why didn't Grahm Harrell or David Klingler win the Heisman?

I think I just answered that question. Do any of you people actually read these posts or do you just fly off half cocked and start typing?

[pancho villa]

So did the 8 points our place kicker missed. Man, you sure have a way of twisting facts to suit your needs. Are you a lawyer by any chance?

Breaking News out of College Station Texas. Texas A&M University just found out Johnny Manzel lost the Heisman race because of #24 Taylor Bertolet.
When asked about the sad news Berolet said "If I had a cool nickname like Taylor"FOOT" Bertolet I would have been 100% this year.

[pancho villa]

[QUOTE=pancho villa;1723041]

I think I just answered that question. Do any of you people actually read these posts or do you just fly off half cocked and start typing?

No you argue both sides of the coin.

[Buff42]

This is for Pancho and MSU- no I'm not a stat man, but I like putting bullets in my gun to back up my sh*t

Manziel 273/400, 24 td 8 int, 155.9 rating, 1181 rush yds 19 tds, 53 total touchdowns, 1 thrilling a$$ victory over consensus #1
Smith, G 327/466, 37 tds 5 int, 159.1 rating, 150 rush yds 2 tds
McCarron 178/265, 25 tds 2 int, 176.3 rating, -22 rush yds 1 td
Miller OSU 148/254, 15 tds 6 int, 140.5 rating, 1271 rush yds 13 tds
Robinson, D 89/166, 9 tds 9 int, 127.4 rating, 1166 rush yds 7 tds, not even in game at clutch time in loss to OSU
Murray UGA 213/320, 30 tds 7 int, 177.1 rating, -59 rush yds 0 td
Jones, L OU 310/467, 27 tds 9 int, 149.0 rating, -103 rush yds 0 tds
Ash, D t.u. 193/285, 17 tds 7 int, 154.9 rating, 119 rush yds 1 td

And just for sh*ts and giggles:
Brees, D 276/442, 31 tds 11 int, 99.0 rating
Brady, T 274/420, 24 tds 3 int, 105.0 rating
Newton, C 310/517, 21 tds 17 int, 84.5 rating, 706 rush yds 14 tds
RGIII 205/304, 16 tds 4 int, 104.6 rating, 642 rush yds 6 tds

The voters will do what they want about him being a frosh. But how anyone can argue that, subjectively, Manziel is one of the most exciting players to watch this year and, objectively, he has the stats to earn the honor is beyond me.

Go drink your haterade elsewhere, Jack.

[Buff42]

BAM! And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of crickets. Haters gonna hate.

[Macarthur]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723046]

No you argue both sides of the coin.

YOur reading comprehension is really poor. What the hell does this even mean?

[msu97]

[QUOTE=Buff42;1723061]This is for Pancho and MSU- no I'm not a stat man, but I like putting bullets in my gun to back up my sh*t

Manziel 273/400, 24 td 8 int, 155.9 rating, 1181 rush yds 19 tds, 53 total touchdowns, 1 thrilling a$$ victory over consensus #1 10-2 record...
Smith, G 327/466, 37 tds 5 int, 159.1 rating, 150 rush yds 2 tds WVU is not good
McCarron 178/265, 25 tds 2 int, 176.3 rating, -22 rush yds 1 td could play for a national title... wins baby, not stats
Miller OSU 148/254, 15 tds 6 int, 140.5 rating, 1271 rush yds 13 tds undefeated....
Robinson, D 89/166, 9 tds 9 int, 127.4 rating, 1166 rush yds 7 tds, not even in game at clutch time in loss to OSU, was playing tailback the last 3 games so you must not watch alot of football, and after teams adjusted to him, he has been average at best
Murray UGA 213/320, 30 tds 7 int, 177.1 rating, -59 rush yds 0 td Really? this guy... Geno Smith is better
Jones, L OU 310/467, 27 tds 9 int, 149.0 rating, -103 rush yds 0 tds has really not performed this year... really disappointed in him
Ash, D t.u. 193/285, 17 tds 7 int, 154.9 rating, 119 rush yds 1 td why is this guy even in the conversation? I mean I know you hate UT, I mean yall are JV to their Varsity... but come on now man... but I bet his numbers against Ole Miss are very comparable to what Manziel did... but Manziel is clearly better than Ash... nice try though

And just for sh*ts and giggles:
Brees, D 276/442, 31 tds 11 int, 99.0 rating better than JFF
Brady, T 274/420, 24 tds 3 int, 105.0 rating better than JFF
Newton, C 310/517, 21 tds 17 int, 84.5 rating, 706 rush yds 14 tds better than JFF, he won the national title by himself... undefeated even... did not have to blame his kicker
RGIII 205/304, 16 tds 4 int, 104.6 rating, 642 rush yds 6 tds made Baylor a relevant program... that is saying something... ATM may have not been what it has been, but they were nowhere near where Baylor was... this is laughable

The voters will do what they want about him being a frosh. But how anyone can argue that, subjectively, Manziel is one of the most exciting players to watch this year and, objectively, he has the stats to earn the honor is beyond me.

reading is your problem... Manziel is deserving... but to say he more deserving than Manti is crazy, much less Lee... like the fatty Pancho says, take off the maroon colored glasses... this is one of the most lackluster years for great talent... JFF is a great football player... but Lee is clearly better...

keep drinking that Aggie koolaid, Jack... I mean I know the Aggies are not used to having great players... but come on... JFF is not even the best player on that team... Matthews and Joekel are definitely better... when they are on the field no d end has a chance... JACK

[msu97]

BAM! And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of crickets. Haters gonna hate.

sorry, college recruiters come in and I have to do some work getting our kids recruited... so I have to take some time to step away... it is a tough job, but someone has to do it... some are easy to get looks, others take a little work...

[msu97]

sorry, college recruiters come in and I have to do some work getting our kids recruited... so I have to take some time to step away... it is a tough job, but someone has to do it... some are easy to get looks, others take a little work...
and just in case you wonder next... it is lunch time... and Pancho has about 3 hours for lunch since he is a fatty... and I know another recruiter is on the way...

[Macarthur]

but to say he more deserving than Manti is crazy,

Crazy? Really?


JFF is a great football player... but Lee is clearly better...

How is he 'clearly' better?

[whitelightning5]

[QUOTE=Buff42;1723061]This is for Pancho and MSU- no I'm not a stat man, but I like putting bullets in my gun to back up my sh*t

Manziel 273/400, 24 td 8 int, 155.9 rating, 1181 rush yds 19 tds, 53 total touchdowns, 1 thrilling a$$ victory over consensus #1 10-2 record...
Smith, G 327/466, 37 tds 5 int, 159.1 rating, 150 rush yds 2 tds WVU is not good
McCarron 178/265, 25 tds 2 int, 176.3 rating, -22 rush yds 1 td could play for a national title... wins baby, not stats
Miller OSU 148/254, 15 tds 6 int, 140.5 rating, 1271 rush yds 13 tds undefeated....
Robinson, D 89/166, 9 tds 9 int, 127.4 rating, 1166 rush yds 7 tds, not even in game at clutch time in loss to OSU, was playing tailback the last 3 games so you must not watch alot of football, and after teams adjusted to him, he has been average at best
Murray UGA 213/320, 30 tds 7 int, 177.1 rating, -59 rush yds 0 td Really? this guy... Geno Smith is better
Jones, L OU 310/467, 27 tds 9 int, 149.0 rating, -103 rush yds 0 tds has really not performed this year... really disappointed in him
Ash, D t.u. 193/285, 17 tds 7 int, 154.9 rating, 119 rush yds 1 td why is this guy even in the conversation? I mean I know you hate UT, I mean yall are JV to their Varsity... but come on now man... but I bet his numbers against Ole Miss are very comparable to what Manziel did... but Manziel is clearly better than Ash... nice try though

And just for sh*ts and giggles:
Brees, D 276/442, 31 tds 11 int, 99.0 rating better than JFF
Brady, T 274/420, 24 tds 3 int, 105.0 rating better than JFF
Newton, C 310/517, 21 tds 17 int, 84.5 rating, 706 rush yds 14 tds better than JFF, he won the national title by himself... undefeated even... did not have to blame his kicker
RGIII 205/304, 16 tds 4 int, 104.6 rating, 642 rush yds 6 tds made Baylor a relevant program... that is saying something... ATM may have not been what it has been, but they were nowhere near where Baylor was... this is laughable

The voters will do what they want about him being a frosh. But how anyone can argue that, subjectively, Manziel is one of the most exciting players to watch this year and, objectively, he has the stats to earn the honor is beyond me.

reading is your problem... Manziel is deserving... but to say he more deserving than Manti is crazy, much less Lee... like the fatty Pancho says, take off the maroon colored glasses... this is one of the most lackluster years for great talent... JFF is a great football player... but Lee is clearly better...

keep drinking that Aggie koolaid, Jack... I mean I know the Aggies are not used to having great players... but come on... JFF is not even the best player on that team... Matthews and Joekel are definitely better... when they are on the field no d end has a chance... JACK

I love when Silas Robertson quotes are used....

What makes Manti more deserving than Jarvis Jones? Cause it isn't on-field performance.

Lee clearly is the best WR in the country. No doubt about that. I would even take it as far as him being the most explosive player in the game.

[Old Tiger]

This thread is stupid.


Manziel is the hottest player right now
Te'O is the best defensive player in the country
Lee is the best WR in the country but that could be debatable with Stedman Bailey


Bailey Stats
95 catches

1342 yards

21 touchdowns

[Saggy Aggie]

[QUOTE=Macarthur;1723005][QUOTE=msu97;1722987]

oh you mean against La Tech? SHSU where he played well into the 3rd, Missouri, yeah... you are always sooooo right mcarthur...




Didnt Manziel come out of the game against SHSU with 10+ mins in the 3rd with A&M up 47-0?


I wouldnt call that keeping him in to pad stats.

[pancho villa]

[QUOTE=msu97;1723011][QUOTE=Macarthur;1723005]

Didnt Manziel come out of the game against SHSU with 10+ mins in the 3rd with A&M up 47-0?


I wouldnt call that keeping him in to pad stats.

I hate to take up for you but it was 40-0 when Manzel came out. Showers threw the last TD pass. I was there.

[Macarthur]

This thread is stupid.

I agree.



Manziel is the hottest player right now

Agreed.


Te'O is the best defensive player in the country

I disagree here. And there are many others that disagree with this.

[whitelightning5]

This thread is stupid.


Manziel is the hottest player right now
Te'O is the best defensive player in the country
Lee is the best WR in the country but that could be debatable with Stedman Bailey


Bailey Stats
95 catches

1342 yards

21 touchdowns

Can't argue with Bailey. You start your team with him and I'll start mine with Lee. I still think Lee is more explosive and comes from a pro-style offense....a little different than the spread system being run at WV.

[Buff42]

I mean I know the Aggies are not used to having great players...

Wrong- we're not used to having good coaches. There has been plenty of talent at A&M over the years, the main difference this year is coaching.

PS- learn how to Reply with Quote properly. I mean it's really not that hard, you just click on the "Reply with Quote" button. If you can't manage that, then learn the code to type in instead.

[msu97]

Wrong- we're not used to having good coaches. There has been plenty of talent at A&M over the years, the main difference this year is coaching.

PS- learn how to Reply with Quote properly. I mean it's really not that hard, you just click on the "Reply with Quote" button. If you can't manage that, then learn the code to type in instead.
no need too, it works for me... and really that is all that matters... Franchione, was a good coach, Sherman, well the team you are winning with is his team...
I know Buff, your love of Aggies has clearly blinded you... Holy Crap, I mean JFF is the best football player since barry sanders... I mean... the Aggies would win the Super Bowl... what were we all thinking...
I am sure your superior knowledge to everyone is difficult (bazinga) but come one man...
you really look clueless in your discussions... I mean who really compares Ash to Manziel...

Bailey is clearly an elite talent... but Lee is the best receiver in the NCAA

[Buff42]

Ash, D t.u. 193/285, 17 tds 7 int, 154.9 rating, 119 rush yds 1 td why is this guy even in the conversation? I mean I know you hate UT, I mean yall are JV to their Varsity... but come on now man... but I bet his numbers against Ole Miss are very comparable to what Manziel did... but Manziel is clearly better than Ash... nice try though

I do hate t.u.- goes wayyyy back to my days at A&M. I put Ash in for fun, because I knew it would po some people. You win the prize for being first to bite the hook. I'm glad we agree on JFF being better than Ash, IMO JFF>Ash+Case.

As for the Ole Miss comparison, you're wrong. Ash actually had a better game- he was 19/23 for 326 yds and 4 tds with 0 int. JFF was 17/26 for 191 yds and 1 td with 2 int, plus 38 rush yds and 1 td. This falls under the "on any given Saturday rule."

What's your point? Oh wait, as usual, you don't have one; not one that anyone else comprehends anyway.

Good luck with recruiting, btw- you coaches deserve a lot of credit for putting these kids in a position to get an education.

[msu97]

I do hate t.u.- goes wayyyy back to my days at A&M. I put Ash in for fun, because I knew it would po some people. You win the prize for being first to bite the hook. I'm glad we agree on JFF being better than Ash, IMO JFF>Ash+Case.

As for the Ole Miss comparison, you're wrong. Ash actually had a better game- he was 19/23 for 326 yds and 4 tds with 0 int. JFF was 17/26 for 191 yds and 1 td with 2 int, plus 38 rush yds and 1 td. This falls under the "on any given Saturday rule."

What's your point? Oh wait, as usual, you don't have one; not one that anyone else comprehends anyway.

Good luck with recruiting, btw- you coaches deserve a lot of credit for putting these kids in a position to get an education.
Thanks I think... it is soo hard to get some of these kids in... so many kids do not take their school work seriously until mid way through their jr years... we have 3 that big time schools want but their GPA is below a 2.1, we are not miracle workers...and so many kids and parents think that there kids are D1... we have to sell these kids on D2, D3, NAIA and JUCO... but the last two years has been better
after last year I have a disdain for Aggie fans regarding one of our players from last year... you too would be upset with these kids...

UT has only themselves to blame for the qb predicament they are in... everyone would have missed on Gilbert, he did not pan out... but UT did not go after anyone else to play qb and now they are stuck with two backups as their starter... they are in serious trouble

[Buff42]

Thanks I think... it is soo hard to get some of these kids in... so many kids do not take their school work seriously until mid way through their jr years... we have 3 that big time schools want but their GPA is below a 2.1, we are not miracle workers...
after last year I have a disdain for Aggie fans regarding one of our players from last year... you too would be upset with these kids...

UT has only themselves to blame for the qb predicament they are in... everyone would have missed on Gilbert, he did not pan out... but UT did not go after anyone else to play qb and now they are stuck with two backups as their starter... they are in serious trouble

I just hope it doesn't cost the highly over-rated Mack Brown his job. The longer he stays, the more t.u. sucks. :flaming:

[msu97]

I just hope it doesn't cost the highly over-rated Mack Brown his job. The longer he stays, the more t.u. sucks. :flaming:
He will be forced into AD role,
I have met Mack several times and he is truly a great guy... SUmlin is as well, Patterson is very good, Les Miles, depends on the day it seems,but man can he command a room, Saban, well...

[Emerson1]

Thanks I think... it is soo hard to get some of these kids in... so many kids do not take their school work seriously until mid way through their jr years... we have 3 that big time schools want but their GPA is below a 2.1, we are not miracle workers...and so many kids and parents think that there kids are D1... we have to sell these kids on D2, D3, NAIA and JUCO... but the last two years has been better
after last year I have a disdain for Aggie fans regarding one of our players from last year... you too would be upset with these kids...

UT has only themselves to blame for the qb predicament they are in... everyone would have missed on Gilbert, he did not pan out... but UT did not go after anyone else to play qb and now they are stuck with two backups as their starter... they are in serious trouble

Everyone missed on Connor Wood too. #3 ranked QB with offers from Texas, OU, and Alabama. At no point was Texas planning on having to play Ash and McCoy before their junior or senior redshirt years.

[msu97]

Everyone missed on Connor Wood too. #3 ranked QB with offers from Texas, OU, and Alabama. At no point was Texas planning on having to play Ash and McCoy before their junior or senior redshirt years.

Agreed, recruiting is an inexact science... some schools, UT, want measurables instead of kids who can just play... for example, our DT this year was 2nd in the district in sacks, 1st last year, and first in TFl's... last year against younger Matthews he dominated him... but he is 5'8" adn 245, so no offers but he can flat out play... we have a d end that is 6'3" 235 and runs a 4.8 but has not touched the field because he is soft and they all want him... you cannot teach a dog how to bite... it aggravates me is what it does...

[whitelightning5]

Agreed, recruiting is an inexact science... some schools, UT, want measurables instead of kids who can just play... for example, our DT this year was 2nd in the district in sacks, 1st last year, and first in TFl's... last year against younger Matthews he dominated him... but he is 5'8" adn 245, so no offers but he can flat out play... we have a d end that is 6'3" 235 and runs a 4.8 but has not touched the field because he is soft and they all want him... you cannot teach a dog how to bite... it aggravates me is what it does...

He could be the next Heisman winner.....

[Old Tiger]

From rumors I've been hearing the big wigs around Texas want Deloss gone.

[1st and goal]

From rumors I've been hearing the big wigs around Texas want Deloss gone.

getting tired of his hoighty toightiness are they?

Back on subject, if Manziel loses, the Heisman will be forever irrepairably stained.

[Z's daddy]

It makes me laugh at the funny things people say on here. "Defense wins championships"

Never denied that defense wins championships. Jumping out to a 20-0 lead in the first quarter allows you to do more things on defense. You are able to dictate what the other team does more. You still never answered why you hate Manziel so much.

[Old Tiger]

getting tired of his hoighty toightiness are they?

Back on subject, if Manziel loses, the Heisman will be forever irrepairably stained.

I think more with his complacency.


And back on subject? This thread is totally screwed.

[Z's daddy]

Can't argue with Bailey. You start your team with him and I'll start mine with Lee. I still think Lee is more explosive and comes from a pro-style offense....a little different than the spread system being run at WV.

Agreed. Lee leads the nation in receptions (114), #2 in yards (1680), and 3rd in TDs (14). His stats are better, and USC has outperformed West Virginia.

[Buff42]

Still crickets from PANCHO. Hahaha.

[Red Bull]

Hey Poncho. Did you watch the future hall of famer last night turn into Drew Turnover? He had five picks. Most all of them were his fault. See, it can happen to the best. Go look at what JFF did against L$U and Florida and compare it to what all other QB's did against them. Makes JFF look even better.

[1st and goal]

And back on subject? This thread is totally screwed.

Your are correct again. Ding ding ding ding ding

Pancho, if you lost weight, you could be Sancho....jk

[pancho villa]

Never denied that defense wins championships. Jumping out to a 20-0 lead in the first quarter allows you to do more things on defense. You are able to dictate what the other team does more. You still never answered why you hate Manziel so much.

Don't hate Manzel just think Te'o should win the Heisman

[pancho villa]

All you losers with maroon colored glasses can keep crying all you want. Te'o=12-0 and will win NC!

[pancho villa]

Hey Poncho. Did you watch the future hall of famer last night turn into Drew Turnover? He had five picks. Most all of them were his fault. See, it can happen to the best. Go look at what JFF did against L$U and Florida and compare it to what all other QB's did against them. Makes JFF look even better.

3 picks aginst LSU is awsome compared to other QB's "GIVE HIM THE HEISMAN"

[Red Bull]

3 picks aginst LSU is awsome compared to other QB's "GIVE HIM THE HEISMAN"

Glad you agree! :clap:

[whitelightning5]

All you losers with maroon colored glasses can keep crying all you want. Te'o=12-0 and will win NC!

Just because not everyone agrees that Te'o will win the Heisman...it makes them losers. It doens't take an Aggie fan to realize that Manziel has had a really strong year. I read a stat the other day that for ever tackle for loss that Te'o registers, Manziel accounts for 8 TDs.

[Red Bull]

Just because not everyone agrees that Te'o will win the Heisman...it makes them losers. It doens't take an Aggie fan to realize that Manziel has had a really strong year. I read a stat the other day that for ever tackle for loss that Te'o registers, Manziel accounts for 8 TDs.

Great stat line Whitelightning!

[pancho villa]

Great stat line Whitelightning!

Stats are for NA's and BQ's

[whitelightning5]

Stats are for NA's and BQ's

You want some more? For every INT that Te'o recorded, Manziel has recored 6 TDs. Or for every solo tackle that Te'o recorded (46) Manziel records 100 yards of offense.

[pancho villa]

You want some more? For every INT that Te'o recorded, Manziel has recored 6 TDs. Or for every solo tackle that Te'o recorded (46) Manziel records 100 yards of offense.

I knew it "BQ"

[whitelightning5]

I knew it "BQ"

I guess I'm not familiar with the language that you spew. What exactly is a BQ?

[Bullaholic]

I guess I'm not familiar with the language that you spew. What exactly is a BQ?

Well, the "B" is for "Band", and the "Q" is the non-PC term for homosexuals. Pancho speaks "coach-ese".

[whitelightning5]

Well, the "B" is for "Band", and the "Q" is the non-PC term for homosexuals. Pancho speaks "coach-ese".

Thanks for that clarification. Takes a mighty big man to make these kind of comments sitting behind a computer screen.

[msu97]

Thanks for that clarification. Takes a mighty big man to make these kind of comments sitting behind a computer screen.
then you must know Pancho... he is one mighty BIG Man... he is ffffaaaaaaattttttt

[whitelightning5]

then you must know Pancho... he is one mighty BIG Man... he is ffffaaaaaaattttttt

I dont know him, and quite honestly, I was starting to feel sorry for him. It seemed that everyone "in the know" was making fun of his stature. After being called a "BQ", I really dont have the same outlook on that topic though. One big DB...I would presume.

[Weebe]

Pancho has hooked many a fish on this thread.

[Saggy Aggie]

Pancho has hooked many a fish on this thread.

+1

Pretty entertaining

[panfan]

+1

Pretty entertaining

Is Pancho "Bobo the Clown" on the Old Coach Forum? Lots of similarities.

[Buff42]

You want some more? For every INT that Te'o recorded, Manziel has recored 6 TDs. Or for every solo tackle that Te'o recorded (46) Manziel records 100 yards of offense.

:iagree:

[Buff42]

:iagree:

Crickets. Again.

[msu97]

I have known pancho for years... and he is very entertaining...
very knowledgeable...fun to be around... great family man... and also very good at getting people to bite...
In this comparison, most of you are using stats, then not wanting to use stats... kind of like JJ Watt, or Von Miller or whoever else you want to use on defense as saying that they should be MVP... instead of Tom Brady or Peyton Manning...
there is no reason why Teo does not deserve the Heisman... there is not a good reason why Collin Klein does not deserve the Heisman, nor Marquise Lee nor Johnny Manziel... either one of these 4 is deserving...

[Macarthur]

I have known pancho for years... and he is very entertaining...
very knowledgeable...fun to be around... great faopportunitymily man... and also very good at getting people to bite...
In this comparison, most of you are using stats, then not wanting to use stats... kind of like JJ Watt, or Von Miller or whoever else you want to use on defense as saying that they should be MVP... instead of Tom Brady or Peyton Manning...
there is no reason why Teo does not deserve the Heisman... there is not a good reason why Collin Klein does not deserve the Heisman, nor Marquise Lee nor Johnny Manziel... either one of these 4 is deserving...

I can think of lots of reasons why teo shouldnt win it. How about lets start with hes not the best defensive player in the country. Even if you make the defensive argument, you got a ways to go to make him the best.

[1st and goal]

I just want to know which Tex Mex restaurant Pancho prefers?

Even though his Heisman pick is about 5th or 6th best IMO. I do trust his Tex Mex opinion. :)

[msu97]

and I do not see Manziel as the best qb in the nation...
if yancy does not fumble or if McCarron makes a better throw Alabama wins and the Manziel talk is all dead... Manziel is considered a front runner because of 1 game, 1... ABC put up stats against winning teams and Collin Klein was hands down better than Manziel... games against SHSU, South Carolina State, SMU, and La Tech have all helped what Manziel has done...
again, he is exciting to watch... but that does not mean he is the Heisman winner...

[msu97]

I just want to know which Tex Mex restaurant Pancho prefers?

Even though his Heisman pick is about 5th or 6th best IMO. I do trust his Tex Mex opinion. :)

Pancho's food opinion is 2nd to none... nobody could kill in a buffet in the amount of time he does

[Buff42]

Still crickets. Whatever.

[Buff42]

and I do not see Manziel as the best qb in the nation...
if yancy does not fumble or if McCarron makes a better throw Alabama wins and the Manziel talk is all dead... Manziel is considered a front runner because of 1 game, 1... ABC put up stats against winning teams and Collin Klein was hands down better than Manziel... games against SHSU, South Carolina State, SMU, and La Tech have all helped what Manziel has done...
again, he is exciting to watch... but that does not mean he is the Heisman winner...

What a crackpot. If, if, if. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Manziel did, the other guys didn't. End of discussion.

[msu97]

Still crickets. Whatever.

Buff, you just need to relax and get over yourself... I mean really, it is a chat room, and Pancho has put out the crickets and you bit...

[msu97]

What a crackpot. If, if, if. Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Manziel did, the other guys didn't. End of discussion.

did what? put up numbers against nobody? what major bowl is he in? what BCS bowl did he lead his team to? that's right, none...
Collin Klein is playing in a BCS bowl... when they were picked 6th or 7th in the Big 12... what about Mariota at Oregon... thats right, in a BCS bowl... both guys only had one loss, JFF had two... Teo had none... heck, McCarron had one and he is playing in the BCS championship...
I know how you Aggies are... waaaah waaaaaah waaaaah...

[pancho villa]

I can think of lots of reasons why teo shouldnt win it. How about lets start with hes not the best defensive player in the country. Even if you make the defensive argument, you got a ways to go to make him the best.

Only in your opinion! ND is #1 and 12-0 because they have Te'o kicking butt on Defense. GIVE THAT BOY THE HEISMAN!!!

[pancho villa]

Still crickets. Whatever.

I'm back, I had bigger fish to fry for a while. (and eat)

[pancho villa]

I was in Acadamy last night and they had A&M shirts with #2 on them instead of #12 that is total BS!!!

So much for their great tradation. BS!!

[Phil C]

I agree that TEO should win but the voters usually prefer offense and if they do I hope Johnny Football gets it them but the fact that he is a freshman and they don't let him inverview may have hurt his chances and they may choose some less worthy person.

[pancho villa]

I agree that TEO should win but the voters usually prefer offense and if they do I hope Johnny Football gets it them but the fact that he is a freshman and they don't let him inverview may have hurt his chances and they may choose some less worthy person.

finally a sensible person on here.

[whitelightning5]

did what? put up numbers against nobody? what major bowl is he in? what BCS bowl did he lead his team to? that's right, none...
Collin Klein is playing in a BCS bowl... when they were picked 6th or 7th in the Big 12... what about Mariota at Oregon... thats right, in a BCS bowl... both guys only had one loss, JFF had two... Teo had none... heck, McCarron had one and he is playing in the BCS championship...
I know how you Aggies are... waaaah waaaaaah waaaaah...

Not an Aggie here, but lets be real. Each Heisman winner has that 1 game that sets them over the top. The Heisman defining moment. Manziel had his on the big stage. Which game did Mariota, Klein or Te'o have theirs?

Just for an apples to apples comparison (since we want to discredit all of the stats put up against weak defenses) lets compare the games that the QBs played against top the top 25 defenses.

Klein - NONE. For the sake of making an argument, the best defense he played was OU. (149 yds passing and 0 TDs, 79 yds rushing and 1 TD)

Mariota - Stanford and Oregon State. VS Stanford's #14 ranked defense (207 yds passing, 1 TD and 1 INT...89 yds rushing). VS Oregon St.'s #23 ranked defense (140 yds passing and 1 TD, 85 yds rushing and 1 TD).

Manziel - Florida, LSU, Alabama. VS Florida's #3 ranked defense (173 yds passing and 0 TDs, 60 yds rushing and 1 TD), VS LSU's #11 ranked defense (276 yds passing and 3 INTs, 27 yds rushing), VS Alabama's #2 ranked defense (253 yds passing and 2 TDs, 92 yds rushing).

To say that Manziel was the only one of the QBs in the Heisman talks to have a few soft games is a little off based....don't you think?

Facing the toughest test on their schedule, no QB put up great numbers. The biggest weakness you can find is the 3 INT performance against LSU.

[1st and goal]

and I do not see Manziel as the best qb in the nation...
if yancy does not fumble or if McCarron makes a better throw Alabama wins and the Manziel talk is all dead... Manziel is considered a front runner because of 1 game, 1... ABC put up stats against winning teams and Collin Klein was hands down better than Manziel... games against SHSU, South Carolina State, SMU, and La Tech have all helped what Manziel has done...
again, he is exciting to watch... but that does not mean he is the Heisman winner...

JM is far and away the most explosive player...Collin Klein is slow, same as McCarron. Klein had what I would call a so so game against UT. He was flat. Talk about blinders... You are out there...waaaayyyy out there. Quit drinking that muddy water straight out of the Brazos. It's dirty by the time it gets down there.

[msu97]

JM is far and away the most explosive player...Collin Klein is slow, same as McCarron. Klein had what I would call a so so game against UT. He was flat. Talk about blinders... You are out there...waaaayyyy out there. Quit drinking that muddy water straight out of the Brazos. It's dirty by the time it gets down there.

actually, he is not... D'Anthony Thomas is by far the most explosive and exciting football player...
I just feel that no Freshman should win the Heisman... so Teo or Klein should get it... Klein has done something twice that no other qb in college football has done... Teo is the best defensive player on the best defense in the nation... ND is the only school that plays only FBS schools... so he could deserve it...
I think living here we get way over exposed to Manziel...
Could JFF win it? absolutely... and deservedly so... but to say nobody else deserves it? absolutely asinine...
When people talk about JFF's stats against Tebow and Newton but then not wanting to consider that he played SHSU, South Carolina St, La Tech(should their AD be fired?) Missouri, Auburn, Arkansas, is insane... plus he plays in a system that is very qb friendly with kevin Sumlin...
I think it will be funnier to watch Aggie fan reaction if he does not win... but I am fairly certain he will win it... but you cannot tell me that these other guys have not earned it as well... Collin Klein did go 12-1... Teo is 11-0

[Rabid Cougar]

Collin Klein's stats vs NORTH TEXAS Defense. He played the entire game.

Passing: C. Klein (KSU) - 230 YDS, 2 TD, 1 INT
Rushing: C. Klein (KSU) - 11 CAR, 85 YDS, 1 TD
was KS's leading rusher too!

YES.... North Texas.

You think Johnny Football would put up such measily numbers against North Texas?

[Buff42]

and I do not see Manziel as the best qb in the nation...
if yancy does not fumble or if McCarron makes a better throw Alabama wins and the Manziel talk is all dead... Manziel is considered a front runner because of 1 game, 1... ABC put up stats against winning teams and Collin Klein was hands down better than Manziel... games against SHSU, South Carolina State, SMU, and La Tech have all helped what Manziel has done...
again, he is exciting to watch... but that does not mean he is the Heisman winner...

Here's some shoulda coulda woulda for you........

1) A&M shoulda played LA Tech first game of the season for a warmup, then we coulda been prepped for Florida a little better, and maybe we woulda beat them

2) A&M played LSU tough the whole game: our place kicker shoulda made his kicks, then we coulda won that game too, then we woulda been undefeated and you knows the rest..............

Seriously, A&M's two losses were to teams that finished #3 and #8 in the BCS rankings. Name me one other team that is that close (holding my fingers up a hair apart) to having a remarkable season turn into an AMAZING season. JFF is a big part of that, and for that reason alone he deserves the trophy.

[Macarthur]

and I do not see Manziel as the best qb in the nation...
if yancy does not fumble or if McCarron makes a better throw Alabama wins and the Manziel talk is all dead... Manziel is considered a front runner because of 1 game, 1... ABC put up stats against winning teams and Collin Klein was hands down better than Manziel... games against SHSU, South Carolina State, SMU, and La Tech have all helped what Manziel has done...
again, he is exciting to watch... but that does not mean he is the Heisman winner...

Who is better?

[Buff42]

but you cannot tell me that these other guys have not earned it as well... Collin Klein did go 12-1... Teo is 11-0

I love how you twist sh*t to suit yourself.

Klein did not go 12-1, KSU did. Teo did not go 11-0, ND did. Last time I checked, football is a team sport. If you read my last post, I state A&M was close to being undefeated, largely in part to JFF, so he should win. But my reason for giving that stat was to counter your insistence on posting ND's undefeated record. Sure, Teo was a large part of why ND is 11-0 and playing for the Championship, but that IS NOT a reason to win the Heisman.

There is no prerequisite for the Heisman winner to be in the National Championship game or to have a perfect season. The Heisman is an award for the best individual player of the season, so ND's record has nothing to do with whether or not Teo should win. Teo has to stand on his own merits with the voters.

As usual, you're wrong and self-serving in your post.

[Macarthur]

Only in your opinion! ND is #1 and 12-0 because they have Te'o kicking butt on Defense. GIVE THAT BOY THE HEISMAN!!!

Well, actually espn, cbssports and the sporting news all project JFF so It's not really MY opinion.

[Macarthur]

I agree that TEO should win but the voters usually prefer offense and if they do I hope Johnny Football gets it them but the fact that he is a freshman and they don't let him inverview may have hurt his chances and they may choose some less worthy person.

And I keep saying this. I have no problem with a defensive player winning the Heisman, but he's got to be clearly the best defensive player in the conuntry and should have some eye popping numbers, right?

I will say again, Te'o isn't even the best defensive player in the country.

[1st and goal]

Its not just the Aggie nation, he has surpassed even that. Like ZZ Top sang....you know we're baaad,,,,,we're nationwide. As I posted on the other thread, even one of ESPN's commentators stated he "wished A&M could play ND for the championship" and this guy is not an aggie.

They could have named him Johnny Electric. Saw the short interview with the "bald guy on campus", JF was very down to earth, humble, and actually interviewed quite well.

Being rated #1 in the country shouldn't matter. What if Bama runs all over Teo and puts a hurtin' on him? He is good, but not as dynamic and electrifying. Don't need stats. Seen it with my own eyes, on nationwide TV. Manziel should win, but it is a vote, and we all know how that can go....smh. PS, how long has it been since a frosh has come into the league with a situation like A&M's, tough conference, new opponents, new coaches, new playbook, mediocre expectations, etc...AND LIT IT UP LIKE HE HAS??? It obviously has captured the hearts and minds of many of the nationwide college football fanship. Look at the polls. JM is at the top. Pancho is out to lunch (at the buffet).

[msu97]

OMG... yall are all so right... I mean, why even have teh Heisman... lets just rename it the Johnny Football... I mean nobody has EVER played football the way Manziel has... wow, he went 10-2 in the SEC... nobody has ever done that before... i mean, have you ever seen a kid run around and just make plays... unbelievable... football never existed before JFF... Archie Who? JFF is going to win the Heisman, wait sorry, The JFF all 4 years he is playing at ATM... this is absolutely amazing... I have never seen anyone do this before... forget about the Cam guy or Tebow... I mean this is JFF... thank you all for setting me straight... I mean I have never seen Case Keenum do this in Sumlins offense, or Jason White, I mean... all records should be called JFF's... I mean, how did the SEC ever survive with these vaunted defenses before? did qbs ever play in teh SEC? well, none that were JFF... Peyton who? JFF is bigger than Bear Bryant.... halleluja, the South has risen again... ATM will now have Touchdown JFF painted over their field like ND has Touchdown Jesus... this is totally unbelievable... I mean if Lee Corso says it then it has to be TRUTH... JFF for President

[jason]

the only reason the notre dame guy is getting media hype is because his gf and grandmother died and he was able to get through that and still play blah blah blah.
he's not even the best defensive player in the country.

[1st and goal]

OMG... yall are all so right... I mean, why even have teh Heisman... lets just rename it the Johnny Football... I mean nobody has EVER played football the way Manziel has... wow, he went 10-2 in the SEC... nobody has ever done that before... i mean, have you ever seen a kid run around and just make plays... unbelievable... football never existed before JFF... Archie Who? JFF is going to win the Heisman, wait sorry, The JFF all 4 years he is playing at ATM... this is absolutely amazing... I have never seen anyone do this before... forget about the Cam guy or Tebow... I mean this is JFF... thank you all for setting me straight... I mean I have never seen Case Keenum do this in Sumlins offense, or Jason White, I mean... all records should be called JFF's... I mean, how did the SEC ever survive with these vaunted defenses before? did qbs ever play in teh SEC? well, none that were JFF... Peyton who? JFF is bigger than Bear Bryant.... halleluja, the South has risen again... ATM will now have Touchdown JFF painted over their field like ND has Touchdown Jesus... this is totally unbelievable... I mean if Lee Corso says it then it has to be TRUTH... JFF for President

You have finally seen the light.

[whitelightning5]

OMG... yall are all so right... I mean, why even have teh Heisman... lets just rename it the Johnny Football... I mean nobody has EVER played football the way Manziel has... wow, he went 10-2 in the SEC... nobody has ever done that before... i mean, have you ever seen a kid run around and just make plays... unbelievable... football never existed before JFF... Archie Who? JFF is going to win the Heisman, wait sorry, The JFF all 4 years he is playing at ATM... this is absolutely amazing... I have never seen anyone do this before... forget about the Cam guy or Tebow... I mean this is JFF... thank you all for setting me straight... I mean I have never seen Case Keenum do this in Sumlins offense, or Jason White, I mean... all records should be called JFF's... I mean, how did the SEC ever survive with these vaunted defenses before? did qbs ever play in teh SEC? well, none that were JFF... Peyton who? JFF is bigger than Bear Bryant.... halleluja, the South has risen again... ATM will now have Touchdown JFF painted over their field like ND has Touchdown Jesus... this is totally unbelievable... I mean if Lee Corso says it then it has to be TRUTH... JFF for President

I mean....how many times did you start a thought with the words "I mean"?

[msu97]

I mean....how many times did you start a thought with the words "I mean"?

Hey, I thought about using Hey, but then Hey, what fun would that have been...

better than saying you feel me... kids say that waaaay tooo much

[whitelightning5]

hey, i thought about using hey, but then hey, what fun would that have been...

Better than saying you feel me... Kids say that waaaay tooo much

hahahaha.

[Buff42]

OMG... yall are all so right... I mean, why even have teh Heisman... lets just rename it the Johnny Football... I mean nobody has EVER played football the way Manziel has... wow, he went 10-2 in the SEC... nobody has ever done that before... i mean, have you ever seen a kid run around and just make plays... unbelievable... football never existed before JFF... Archie Who? JFF is going to win the Heisman, wait sorry, The JFF all 4 years he is playing at ATM... this is absolutely amazing... I have never seen anyone do this before... forget about the Cam guy or Tebow... I mean this is JFF... thank you all for setting me straight... I mean I have never seen Case Keenum do this in Sumlins offense, or Jason White, I mean... all records should be called JFF's... I mean, how did the SEC ever survive with these vaunted defenses before? did qbs ever play in teh SEC? well, none that were JFF... Peyton who? JFF is bigger than Bear Bryant.... halleluja, the South has risen again... ATM will now have Touchdown JFF painted over their field like ND has Touchdown Jesus... this is totally unbelievable... I mean if Lee Corso says it then it has to be TRUTH... JFF for President

You're just goofy. I'm done here.

[BEAST]

Whats funny is how Pancho got so many folks all up in arms. He is just messing with everybody. LOL. I will say this though, JFF FOR HEISMAN.





BEAST

[pancho villa]

I say Te'o should win the Heisman, and if you don't agree with me I'm sure you watch "Real Housewifes" and "Fliping Out"!!!!

[whitelightning5]

I say Te'o should win the Heisman, and if you don't agree with me I'm sure you watch "Real Housewifes" and "Fliping Out"!!!!

I'm not going to waste my Heisman vote on Te'o......but I will take him on the Texans in next years draft. I wish he would slide or the Texans would do something they have never done and trade up to grab him.

[NastySlot]

actually, he is not... D'Anthony Thomas is by far the most explosive and exciting football player...
I just feel that no Freshman should win the Heisman... so Teo or Klein should get it... Klein has done something twice that no other qb in college football has done... Teo is the best defensive player on the best defense in the nation... ND is the only school that plays only FBS schools... so he could deserve it...
I think living here we get way over exposed to Manziel...
Could JFF win it? absolutely... and deservedly so... but to say nobody else deserves it? absolutely asinine...
When people talk about JFF's stats against Tebow and Newton but then not wanting to consider that he played SHSU, South Carolina St, La Tech(should their AD be fired?) Missouri, Auburn, Arkansas, is insane... plus he plays in a system that is very qb friendly with kevin Sumlin...
I think it will be funnier to watch Aggie fan reaction if he does not win... but I am fairly certain he will win it... but you cannot tell me that these other guys have not earned it as well... Collin Klein did go 12-1... Teo is 11-0

He might not win it.

[lostaussie]

Listening to ESPN radio today and interviewing a few "guys in the know" all "exit polls" say Johnny Football is going to win it...........and its not going to be close. We shall see come Saturday.

[NastySlot]

Listening to ESPN radio today and interviewing a few "guys in the know" all "exit polls" say Johnny Football is going to win it...........and its not going to be close. We shall see come Saturday.

Dewey defeats Truman

[bp80884]

I have a very fundamental question to everyone that says a Freshman should not win the Heisman. I think the Heisman is an award for the most outstanding College Football player, feel free to disagree if you feel different.

Question: Can a Freshman not be the most outstanding/beat player? I did not know age kept you from bring the best!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NastySlot]

I have a very fundamental question to everyone that says a Freshman should not win the Heisman. I think the Heisman is an award for the most outstanding College Football player, feel free to disagree if you feel different.

Question: Can a Freshman not be the most outstanding/beat player? I did not know age kept you from bring the best!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

in football most think it s crazy..... But don t freshman win the Wooden award in basketball.

[Roughneck93]

A Redshirt Freshman! :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wGJN7ErQbs&feature=youtube_gdata_player