Point to Ponder

[sinton66]

Had an idea, and want to see what everyone else thinks. I think it would be a good idea for the UIL to provide one additional official for high school games. His job should be to sit in the press box and take an "overall" view of the game. Perhaps they could then be able to make some of the calls missed on the field. The central idea here is to prevent cheap shots by making sure they draw penalties. He should be able to tell whether or not the official on the field was watching what he was supposed to be or simply got caught up in the action and let his attention stray. Other opinions?

[lepfan]

Sounds good, but let's also give him a remote control that he can gives the ref on the field a jolt of electricity (just enough to get his attention) when he makes a bone headed call or totally blows one. wink

[TXMike]

No other HS sport I am aware of has such an official, why should football? College football does not even have a replay official (although they DO typically have 7 man crews on the field compared to our 5).

If they (UIL) wants to do anything they should MANDATE that schools send a game film to the Chapter that worked the game after EVERY game. Trust me...the OVERWHELMING majority of us really want to get things right and want to get better (although y'all expect us to be perfect from the get-go). The best way to get better is to watch yourself and watch your mistakes.

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: TXMike ]</small>

[Pudlugger]

TXMike:
No other HS sport I am aware of has such an official, why should football? College football does not even have a replay official (although they DO typically have 7 man crews on the field compared to our 5).

If they (UIL) wants to do anything they should MANDATE that schools send a game film to the Chapter that worked the game after EVERY game. Trust me...the OVERWHELMING majority of us really want to get things right and want to get better (although y'all expect us to be perfect from the get-go). The best way to get better is to watch yourself and watch your mistakes.I'm with you there TXMIKE. Get those game films. Good idea.

[3afan]

it will never happen: first of all there is the $ needed to pay another official ... most, or many schools are already scraping by and to pay another official is a burden they probably will not want. second, unless you give the extra official instant replay its unrealistic to expect them to make "the calls missed on the field." in some stadium the press box is 200'+ away from the field. as TXMike suggests, sending in films when something needs looked at it much more feasible. BUT KEEP THOSE IDEAS COMING ........

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: 3afan ]</small>

[sinton66]

I understand where you're coming from, Mike. I wasn't actually talking about a "replay" situation. The ability to over-rule a call made on the field isn't in my proposal. What I'm suggesting would be simply a "missed call" that should have been, particularly in the case of late hits and cheap shots. Something like an "overview" that catches a defensive player intentionally trying to play "kill the quarterback" and not getting caught simply because the Backfield Judge got caught up in the action downfield. I know refs aren't perfect, and I don't really expect them to be. That said, however, our real focus should be ensuring a clean game where injuries happen ONLY as a result of honest hard play.

[sinton66]

And, I apologize, I didn't mean this to be a question of the ref's integrity. I know that when they get caught up in the action it isn't on purpose. I know they even get knocked down sometimes, those things are inevitable. I was just trying to think about how we could help ensure cleaner games.

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: sinton66 ]</small>

[TXMike]

I did not take your comments as a question of integrity. But the example you cited is admittedly a perfect example of a problem some of us have. We call it "watching the game." Many white hats will tell you, if they are honest, that they find themselves looking downfield on pass plays. that means that we end up with 5 sets of eyes looking towards action that may involve 2 - 4 players, while the other 18 - 20 are spread out around the field, often with nobody looking at them. That is when cheap shots happen. It is unfortunate.

One of the best ways we can break guys of the habit of officiating (out of their area) is to show them film of cheap shots that happened and then chastising the guys who missed it because they were looking "outside their zone." In most cases, they start doing a much better job of staying with their responsibility.

[sinton66]

Sure, I agree that training would help. This won't make me very popular among my coaching friends, but I might also like to see some UIL imposed fines for illegal actions like cheap shots. If the refs could report such a thing and the result be that a coach gets fined, it would cease pretty quickly. But, they would definitely have to see it happen.

[TXMike]

It is not gonna win you a lot of friends among officials either!!! wink We really do not want to get in the position of "tattletale" although there are already some incidents which do require us to make a mandatory report to TASO. (I assume they then report to UIL)

Anyway, I would find it real hard to argue that a kid's actions should be made the responsibility of the coach. I have seen teams coached by some of the classiest guys I know and 1 or more of the kids will lose his cool for a moment and do something stupid. Coaches should not be blamed for that.

I doubt UIL would want the liability and responsibility of making a finding that could lead to a fine when that same act might be leading to civil court action (i.e. injured player suing someone).

[Chief Woodman]

Txmike- glad to have you here. I knew a man from the ft worth chapter years ago that called a lot of the old Southwest conference games. Currently know 2 Ft Worth firefighters who are refs. Your expertise is very welcome here. Also, speaking of Ponder...ever eat at the steakhouse there? Mighty good eating.

[TXMike]

Chief:

We also have several firefighters in our Chapter. Their work schedules are very well-suited to being involved in this avocation (plus they are usually in better physical condition than most others their age).

This game, as anyone knows who is more than a casual fan, is very complicated. And not only is it complicated to organize, plan, and play..it is complicated to officiate. The rules can be confusing to many of us who devote considerable time and effort to understand so I can imagine how confusing they are to someone (fans & coaches) who do not have the time or need to understand the finer poingts of the rules. My purpose for being here is to try to help folks understand the confusing parts, to help explain why my brother refs may do things that they do, and to help wipe out some of the common misconceptions about the game, (i.e. "Defenders cannot contact the receivers after 5 yards" {that is a NFL rule]).

[Bandera YaYa]

....oh great, you want another man out there, as if 92 aren't enough to make one call! So, let me see if I have this correct....the players disagree with the call, the coaches jump in and yell at the refs, the refs start to yell amongst themselves, then the other team's coaches start to scream at the refs....and now they will be looking towards the heavens....to agrue with another ref in the skybox???? Yeah, that's exactly what is needed. Hey, what about a ref in a blimp....you know, floating around, above the action, could get closer to the action....they could parachute down to the field when needed..... :p

[sinton66]

You would have to admit, though, if the coach had to suffer, he would make sure the guilty party did also. I've seen it done on teams with classy coaches too, and sometimes there are no repercussions at all except for some yelling.

Maybe this isn't the RIGHT way to go about it, there sure could be a better way out there in someone's mind.

[sinton66]

Ya Ya, you have no idea what you're talking about. As TxMike said, the NCAA uses SEVEN officials. Did you even bother to READ the above comments, or are you just running your mouth again? :rolleyes:

[Bandera YaYa]

,,,WHO doesn't have a sense of humor??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Bandera YaYa]

....7...92....same difference.... :p

[sinton66]

Bandera YaYa:
,,,WHO doesn't have a sense of humor??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Learn to tell the difference between a joke and a serious thread, then we'll talk.