School invocation/prayer

[Inmateboss]

If your school gives an invocation/ prayer/ blessing!Please list your schools name!! We have gone to several Games this year where they have done this and would like to see it done here!! Thanks just testing the waters!!

[GrTigers6]

If your school gives an invocation/ prayer/ blessing!Please list your schools name!! We have gone to several Games this year where they have done this and would like to see it done here!! Thanks just testing the waters!!We do the politically correct Moment of silence, Which is better than nothing but would prefer to do a prayer.

[vtskneb]

....

[buff4ever]

We had a prayer ealier in the year, and I think a moment of silence since.

[SHSBulldog00]

I've only been to one game and I don't remember disappointing.:(

[Inmateboss]

We went to a game during our bye week and they had a great pre game prayer, tribute to the flag, and then the national anthem, it was great !!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[BEAST]

Brownwood has a student led prayer before every game. Its piped right through the PA system.




BEAST

[Inmateboss]

Brownwood has a student led prayer before every game. Its piped right through the PA system.




BEAST

Yes and I thought it was great!!! And I applaud you administration for allowing it to happen!!! Good job


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[jdawg2012]

Did a prayer one time, then every time after that has been a moment of silence. I believe the PA announcer got in trouble. So sad. :/

[Halup]

If your school gives an invocation/ prayer/ blessing!Please list your schools name!! We have gone to several Games this year where they have done this and would like to see it done here!! Thanks just testing the waters!!

When you come to Monahans for a game with the Loboes, you will be treated to the following pre-game activities: 1) a gift at midfield from the Monahans students to the students of the visiting school; 2) a prayer at the request of our student body and consented to by the administration (the prayer is usually, but not always given by a student); 3) the playing of both school songs; and 4) the playing (and singing) of our national anthem! The Go Gringos wouldn't want it any other way!

[Inmateboss]

When you come to Monahans for a game with the Loboes, you will be treated to the following pre-game activities: 1) a gift at midfield from the Monahans students to the students of the visiting school; 2) a prayer at the request of our student body and consented to by the administration (the prayer is usually, but not always given by a student); 3) the playing of both school songs; and 4) the playing (and singing) of our national anthem! The Go Gringos wouldn't want it any other way!

Awesome!! Thanks for the post!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

We do the politically correct Moment of silence, Which is better than nothing but would prefer to do a prayer.

It is better than nothing, but saying a prayer to keep both sides healthy and have a safe journey home should be viewed more as a common Courtesy than religious in nature!! Imo


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[greendawg84]

Brownwood has a student led prayer before every game. Its piped right through the PA system.




BEAST

The way it outta be ! We do a moment of silence , much to my dislike.

[ccmom]

Didn't you hear the pregame prayer at Wylie before our game this year? Something like "please bless the Steers as we kick their rears".:taunt:

Seriously, I guess I just assumed most schools included some sort of prayer or moment of silence in their pregame.

[Phil C]

Did a prayer one time, then every time after that has been a moment of silence. I believe the PA announcer got in trouble. So sad. :/

Don't always BE POLITICALLY CORRECT!!

:mad:

[Inmateboss]

Didn't you hear the pregame prayer at Wylie before our game this year? Something like "please bless the Steers as we kick their rears".:taunt:

Seriously, I guess I just assumed most schools included some sort of prayer or moment of silence in their pregame.

Yes I did and loved it ( the prayer) we do a moment of silence and all that means is you can hear the kids playing behind the stands better!!! A few should not dictate to the masses!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

! A few should not dictate to the masses!!!


That's a slipery slope there.

[Macarthur]

dp..

[Farmersfan]

It is better than nothing, but saying a prayer to keep both sides healthy and have a safe journey home should be viewed more as a common Courtesy than religious in nature!! Imo


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5




:crazy: Wow!

[Farmersfan]

Yes I did and loved it ( the prayer) we do a moment of silence and all that means is you can hear the kids playing behind the stands better!!! A few should not dictate to the masses!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5



Only 23% of Americans favor a spoken prayer at a school sponsored event. So a prayer before a football game would be the "Few dictating to the masses" that you spoke about. The moment of silence is the preferable method. That should take care of anyone's desires to pray and other's desires to not pray without one interfering with the other. Why is that not enough?


http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx

[FB-fanatic]

Our pregame prayer happens every Friday in the car on the way to the game. Asking for everyone on the field to stay safe and avoid injury; then in the bleachers just before kickoff. Sometimes friends join in at the one in the bleachers.

[BEAST]

Only 23% of Americans favor a spoken prayer at a school sponsored event. So a prayer before a football game would be the "Few dictating to the masses" that you spoke about. The moment of silence is the preferable method. That should take care of anyone's desires to pray and other's desires to not pray without one interfering with the other. Why is that not enough?


http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx

Curious what that poll would say if were directed to Texans instead of Americans?




BEAST

[Macarthur]

Our pregame prayer happens every Friday in the car on the way to the game. Asking for everyone on the field to stay safe and avoid injury; then in the bleachers just before kickoff. Sometimes friends join in at the one in the bleachers.

You don't close your eyes while you're driving to the game do you? :)

[44INAROW]

Curious what that poll would say if were directed to Texans instead of Americans?




BEAST
probably polled in the north - I'd be willing to bet the results would be different if they polled Texas..

[FB-fanatic]

You don't close your eyes while you're driving to the game do you? :)

No, that's one of the few times I pray with my eyes open. Always feels kinda funny.

[Purple Rain]

Only 23% of Americans favor a spoken prayer at a school sponsored event. So a prayer before a football game would be the "Few dictating to the masses" that you spoke about. The moment of silence is the preferable method. That should take care of anyone's desires to pray and other's desires to not pray without one interfering with the other. Why is that not enough?


http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx

There are many that feel these decisions should be made at the local level where the majority may prefer a spoken prayer

[Deuce]

There are many that feel these decisions should be made at the local level where the majority may prefer a spoken prayer

I agree!!

[Inmateboss]

Only 23% of Americans favor a spoken prayer at a school sponsored event. So a prayer before a football game would be the "Few dictating to the masses" that you spoke about. The moment of silence is the preferable method. That should take care of anyone's desires to pray and other's desires to not pray without one interfering with the other. Why is that not enough?


http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx

Well considering the data is from 2005, and out dated its not supported by current trends!! I feel it should be up to the school to decide what they want!! If they don't want to fine, want it it should be their choice!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Eagle 1]

Goldthwaite started doing a student lead prayer before the home games this year.
The first time it was done, people in our stands cheered afterwards.
I don't have to rely on another poll to tell me that MOST PEOPLE DO PREFER THIS.

[GrTigers6]

Goldthwaite started doing a student lead prayer before the home games this year.
The first time it was done, people in our stands cheered afterwards.
I don't have to rely on another poll to tell me that MOST PEOPLE DO PREFER THIS.:clap:

[rockdale80]

Perhaps, but the few should be protected from the will of the majority...

[Purple Rain]

The minority remains "protected" because they are not stripped of their rights. They retain the right not to participate, not attend the event in question at all or even move to another area that is more consistent with their beliefs and values.

[rockdale80]

Seperation of church and state...

Every property owner, regardless of religious beliefs, pays property/school taxes. Perhaps those people would prefer their tax money not be spent promoting a religion they do not adhere to.

[regaleagle]

In God We Trust.

[Farmersfan]

Curious what that poll would say if were directed to Texans instead of Americans?




BEAST




I guess you could regionalize almost anything and keep narrowing down the scope of the survey until it finally meets your approval. But in this case finding an approval point was not the intent of the survey. Getting a consensus on the overall opinion of this country was the purpose.

[GrTigers6]

I guess you could regionalize almost anything and keep narrowing down the scope of the survey until it finally meets your approval. But in this case finding an approval point was not the intent of the survey. Getting a consensus on the overall opinion of this country was the purpose.They never asked me so how acurate is it?:D

[44INAROW]

Seperation of church and state...

Every property owner, regardless of religious beliefs, pays property/school taxes. Perhaps those people would prefer their tax money not be spent promoting a religion they do not adhere to.

you're assuming everyone who objects is a property owner and pays their taxes.. and a moment of silence or a brief prayer for safety is not exactly PROMOTING a RELIGION..broad strokes of the brush in my opinion... it's called human compassion and it's obvious that some Liberals don't possess that quality. Furthermore, I do pay my fair share of taxes and if I choose to stand and pray at a football game (or anywhere else for that matter (whether it's "lead" or not) I will do it, and if someone finds that offensive, they can kiss my butt.

[Deuce]

you're assuming everyone who objects is a property owner and pays their taxes.. and a moment of silence or a brief prayer for safety is not exactly PROMOTING a RELIGION..broad strokes of the brush in my opinion... it's called human compassion and it's obvious that some Liberals don't possess that quality. Furthermore, I do pay my fair share of taxes and if I choose to stand and pray at a football game (or anywhere else for that matter (whether it's "lead" or not) I will do it, and if someone finds that offensive, they can kiss my butt.

Preach on Brother! I like it.

[ccmom]

Preach on Brother! I like it.

44, he just called you a "brother"! Haha....I bet you have been called worse, though.;):D

[Macarthur]

you're assuming everyone who objects is a property owner and pays their taxes.. and a moment of silence or a brief prayer for safety is not exactly PROMOTING a RELIGION..broad strokes of the brush in my opinion... it's called human compassion and it's obvious that some Liberals don't possess that quality. Furthermore, I do pay my fair share of taxes and if I choose to stand and pray at a football game (or anywhere else for that matter (whether it's "lead" or not) I will do it, and if someone finds that offensive, they can kiss my butt.

Well, the reality is that property ownership or taxes paid have no bearing on someone's rights. A homeless person has the same rights as Mark Cuban.

[Aesculus gilmus]

I think that you will find in coming years and decades that the area from around Alabama westward and then northward all the way up to around Idaho will be so incredibly outvoted that secessionist movements will become more powerful in those regions.

This is pretty sad because the military/security technology is such that the outcome would be even worse for them than what occurred to the secessionists 150 years ago.

What seems natural to a Texan and residents of kindred states is pretty alien at this point to most of the people on the two coasts, which are VERY populous regions.

I am not taking sides about who is right and, in fact, I don't vote anymore and feel better since I stopped. The classic "definition of insanity" given by Einstein comes to mind when I look at voters these days.

Praying in public (in spite of what Jesus said in Matthew 6:5-6 about this issue) before football games, though, is not something anybody is going to go to war over. Now if you start trying to withhold oil and gas reserves ....

[Inmateboss]

Goldthwaite started doing a student lead prayer before the home games this year.
The first time it was done, people in our stands cheered afterwards.
I don't have to rely on another poll to tell me that MOST PEOPLE DO PREFER THIS.

Exactly the response I have been getting here!!! I just hope our school board will listen to their people's wishes!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

The minority remains "protected" because they are not stripped of their rights. They retain the right not to participate, not attend the event in question at all or even move to another area that is more consistent with their beliefs and values.

Amen to that!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

Curious what that poll would say if were directed to Texans instead of Americans?




BEAST

You may have something there!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[44INAROW]

Well, the reality is that property ownership or taxes paid have no bearing on someone's rights. A homeless person has the same rights as Mark Cuban.
I only mentioned that because it was brought up by someone else, basically replying, but thanks for the info

Seperation of church and state...

Every property owner, regardless of religious beliefs, pays property/school taxes. Perhaps those people would prefer their tax money not be spent promoting a religion they do not adhere to.

but since you brought up homeless people - I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the "free meals" they are fed, are provided by those nasty, praying folks at church missions..

[Farmersfan]

you're assuming everyone who objects is a property owner and pays their taxes.. and a moment of silence or a brief prayer for safety is not exactly PROMOTING a RELIGION..



What is it then?

[Inmateboss]

Perhaps, but the few should be protected from the will of the majority...

America is the only nation where 2 people can bring the whole country to a screeching halt!!! The 2 two people that brought the federal lawsuits that stopped prayer at games had that right!!! The government had the right to backup "We the People" and say we're sorry but this country was founded on
" In God We Trust", and throw out the lawsuits!!! We're a free society they can come to the game a couple of minutes late if they desire!! My freedoms and rights are little by little being picked away and I'm tired of it!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[44INAROW]

What is it then?

showing human compassion.. or caring - I won't even try to explain it to you - you like to argue for argument sake..

[Farmersfan]

Question to everyone claiming they want public prayer at football games: Is it your belief that God will not protect the kids if you don't pray for that protection? Is it your belief that God won't KNOW about the football game and therefore won't be able to protect those kids unless you pray and let him know the protection is needed? If not for the public promotion of your religious beliefs then what possible rational reason could you give for the need or desire to pray at that particular time?

[44INAROW]

Question to everyone claiming they want public prayer at football games: Is it your belief that God will not protect the kids if you don't pray for that protection? Is it your belief that God won't KNOW about the football game and therefore won't be able to protect those kids unless you pray and let him know the protection is needed? If not for the public promotion of your religious beliefs then what possible rational reason could you give for the need or desire to pray at that particular time?
you're seriously asking this question.. I thank God that I live in a country that I am free to express my opinion and not have to justify them to an atheist, agnostics or whatever you want to call it - and I certainly won't sit here and justify my belief.. but I do firmly believe that a pre-game prayer is just that - not everything is a conspiracy..
I am done with this, not worth getting worked up on some non-believers

[Inmateboss]

Question to everyone claiming they want public prayer at football games: Is it your belief that God will not protect the kids if you don't pray for that protection? Is it your belief that God won't KNOW about the football game and therefore won't be able to protect those kids unless you pray and let him know the protection is needed? If not for the public promotion of your religious beliefs then what possible rational reason could you give for the need or desire to pray at that particular time?

It's obvious your not a religious person, therefore the subject is moot to you !! God bless


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

America is the only nation where 2 people can bring the whole country to a screeching halt!!! The 2 two people that brought the federal lawsuits that stopped prayer at games had that right!!! The government had the right to backup "We the People" and say we're sorry but this country was founded on
" In God We Trust", and throw out the lawsuits!!! We're a free society they can come to the game a couple of minutes late if they desire!! My freedoms and rights are little by little being picked away and I'm tired of it!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

I think this is a silly point. Nothing has come to a screeching halt. And let me say that your comment about this country being founded 'In God we Trust' is simply not accurate. That motto did not really enter our nation vernacular until quite recently. The founders made no such request/demand of the mint. It wasn't until the mid 1800's until it was even suggested and it wasn't used on paper money until the 1950's. It also was not used in the Pledge until mid-20th Century. There is way too much revisionist history going on with God and our country.

One of the major problems with the prayer thing is that since equality is one of the bedrocks of this country, are those of you in support prepared to sit through a jewish, muslim and hindu prayer at each game if the students of those faiths demand equal time?

[Macarthur]

dp..

[MUSTANG69]

It's obvious your not a religious person, therefore the subject is moot to you !! God bless


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5


It should be a moot point to them but they have appointed themselves the "God police" and insist on sticking their fat asses into everybody else's business.

[Inmateboss]

I think this is a silly point. Nothing has come to a screeching halt. And let me say that your comment about this country being founded 'In God we Trust' is simply not accurate. That motto did not really enter our nation vernacular until quite recently. The founders made no such request/demand of the mint. It wasn't until the mid 1800's until it was even suggested and it wasn't used on paper money until the 1950's. It also was not used in the Pledge until mid-20th Century. There is way too much revisionist history going on with God and our country.

One of the major problems with the prayer thing is that since equality is one of the bedrocks of this country, are those of you in support prepared to sit through a jewish, muslim and hindu prayer at each game if the students of those faiths demand equal time?

Absolutely as long as they get the same 30 seconds!!! If an atheist wants to get up for 30 seconds at a game and say why he doesn't believe or what ever that's fine, and as a police officer I will personally walk him to his car after he's done or to his seat if that's what he feels is best!! It's not about what religion is used, if a Buddhist wants to say a prayer at our game, come on,ill swing his incense burner like a sky writer and thank him for coming!!! Does the school you support do one??


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[YTBulldogs]

showing human compassion.. or caring - I won't even try to explain it to you - you like to argue for argument sake..

I agree 44. And will add. The direction this Country has been going the past 10+ years, we need more of GOD involved, not less. Stand your ground schools.

[Macarthur]

Absolutely as long as they get the same 30 seconds!!! If an atheist wants to get up for 30 seconds at a game and say why he doesn't believe or what ever that's fine, and as a police officer I will personally walk him to his car after he's done or to his seat if that's what he feels is best!! It's not about what religion is used, if a Buddhist wants to say a prayer at our game, come on,ill swing his incense burner like a sky writer and thank him for coming!!! Does the school you support do one??


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5


I commend your open mindedness but I would be willing to bet $1 billion that in most towns I'd Texas, there would be a nuclear meltdown if they did a Muslim prayer over the PA.

[YTBulldogs]

This Country was created with GOD involved. Not the non-believers. I respect the non-believers, or any other god you worship, and your right to believe however you believe. But---this is the United States of America, respect our Country's believe in our GOD.

[Inmateboss]

I commend your open mindedness but I would be willing to bet $1 billion that in most towns I'd Texas, there would be a nuclear meltdown if they did a Muslim prayer over the PA.

I'd be willing to bet a hundred you don't have a billion! Lets look at it like this, if we're on a bus with say 50 other people and were gonna stop to eat, 50 of us want BBQ and you want to eat at Quasimotos sushi house! Would it be right to make all of us eat bait or for the sake of kindness just drop you off and pick you when we're done at Big Pete's BBQ joint??? We both get what we want, and you didn't have to wait till we were through nor us you!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

I agree 44. And will add. The direction this Country has been going the past 10+ years, we need more of GOD involved, not less. Stand your ground schools.

Lord knows I'm trying!!! It was a simple question, "Does your school do an invocation", when I started this push here I said I don't care if its a "Prayer, blessing,or wired acknowledgement"!! I was told we would have to make time for all religions that ask!! I agreed and still do!! Maybe I look at things differently but I think a different prayer would be cool!! Just let something besides standing there like a bump on a log!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

This Country was created with GOD involved. Not the non-believers.

What does this mean? Can you elaborate?


I respect the non-believers, or any other god you worship, and your right to believe however you believe. But---this is the United States of America, respect our Country's believe in our GOD.

Which God?

[Macarthur]

darn it. why all the dp?

[Macarthur]

I'd be willing to bet a hundred you don't have a billion!

Sure, I don't, but that doesn't change my point which you didn't address.


Lets look at it like this, if we're on a bus with say 50 other people and were gonna stop to eat, 50 of us want BBQ and you want to eat at Quasimotos sushi house! Would it be right to make all of us eat bait or for the sake of kindness just drop you off and pick you when we're done at Big Pete's BBQ joint??? We both get what we want, and you didn't have to wait till we were through nor us you!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

How does that analogy relate to the discussion we are having?

[YTBulldogs]

What does this mean? Can you elaborate?



Which God?

The one who's son died for us sinners.

[Macarthur]

The one who's son died for us sinners.

I'm asking how this country was created with God involved. Those are your words. I'm trying to understand what that statement means.

[Ragin Red]

you're seriously asking this question.. I thank God that I live in a country that I am free to express my opinion and not have to justify them to an atheist, agnostics or whatever you want to call it - and I certainly won't sit here and justify my belief.. but I do firmly believe that a pre-game prayer is just that - not everything is a conspiracy..
I am done with this, not worth getting worked up on some non-believers

AMEN:clap::clap::clap:

[Inmateboss]

It relates to the fact that were not trying to shove anything down your throat or make your kind do what we want but you want to make us conform to your standards !! I say BS!! If you are going to go where to a game where they want to say a prayer, either don't go, go late or stick something in your ears!! Don't force them to stop because you don't like it !!! The shoe fits for both we just try to be a little more kind than your kind does!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

It relates to the fact that were not trying to shove anything down your throat or make your kind do what we want but you want to make us conform to your standards !! I say BS!! If you are going to go where to a game where they want to say a prayer, either don't go, go late or stick something in your ears!! Don't force them to stop because you don't like it !!! The shoe fits for both we just try to be a little more kind than your kind does!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

First, you need to tap the brakes on throwing around the 'your kind' crap. I never said I was a non-believer and that has been thrown around here way too easy. I can be a believer and still think that I do not want my government institutions sponsoring religious activities.

So your answer is that if I don't want government to sponsor religious acitivies, I should just stay home? That's your answer?

BTW, there has not been a single one of my question answered here...

[Purple Rain]

I'm asking how this country was created with God involved. Those are your words. I'm trying to understand what that statement means.

With all due respect, you are the one practicing revisionist history. If, after studying American History, you have reached the conclusion that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of rogue secularists, then nothing I say, nor anyone else on this board says, is going to convince you otherwise. However, I will pray to God for your enlightenment. Which God you ask? The same God as the Founding Fathers...God the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of the Holy Bible. You know, the one that teaches bad things like thou shalt not steal, lie or kill etc.

[vtskneb]

With all due respect, you are the one practicing revisionist history. If, after studying American History, you have reached the conclusion that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of rogue secularists, then nothing I say, nor anyone else on this board says, is going to convince you otherwise. However, I will pray to God for your enlightenment. Which God you ask? The same God as the Founding Fathers...God the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of the Holy Bible. You know, the one that teaches bad things like thou shalt not steal, lie or kill etc.

I am a Christain and actually most of the founding fathers were not practicing Christains. Especially the most influential ones. They even specifically wrote in the separation of church and state to the constitution and would not permit a national religion nor national language. Many of the commingling of church and state today were added in the mid- to late 1800s and early 1900s. Forefathers were very adamant of the separation. The value system of Christains and the forefathers are, I believe in line with one another.

[Macarthur]

With all due respect, you are the one practicing revisionist history. If, after studying American History, you have reached the conclusion that the Founding Fathers were a bunch of rogue secularists, then nothing I say, nor anyone else on this board says, is going to convince you otherwise.

Many of the founders were Christians. Several were not. However, it is very clear in their writings that the government was intended to be a secular government. In fact, it's one of the biggest reasons for the foundation of this country, in the first place.

Let me suggest some reading.

http://www.amazon.com/Faiths-Founding-Fathers-David-Holmes/dp/0195300920/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352396628&sr=8-2&keywords=faiths+of+our+fathers

http://www.amazon.com/Adams-Jefferson-Letters-Complete-Correspondence-Jefferson/dp/0807842303/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1352396660&sr=1-1&keywords=jefferson+letters

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html



However, I will pray to God for your enlightenment. Which God you ask? The same God as the Founding Fathers...God the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of the Holy Bible. You know, the one that teaches bad things like thou shalt not steal, lie or kill etc.

I always appreciate prayer. However, I think you might have minunderstood the point of my question, as you and I both know I knew which God you were referring to....Give it some thought.

[Indian 1985]

We do the politically correct Moment of silence

Same with us.

IMO, the moment of silence is more appropriate, and in keeping with the separation of church and state. That way, those that wish to say a quick prayer, may do so in accordance with their particular faith, or belief system.
Those that do not pray, or believe in a different form of religion, or otherwise lack a belief in a deity, don't have to listen to it.

[Inmateboss]

First, you need to tap the brakes on throwing around the 'your kind' crap. I never said I was a non-believer and that has been thrown around here way too easy. I can be a believer and still think that I do not want my government institutions sponsoring religious activities.

So your answer is that if I don't want government to sponsor religious acitivies, I should just stay home? That's your answer?

BTW, there has not been a single one of my question answered here...

I'll tap the brakes and you take a breath and try to reason to reason!!!
I don't want one person (like yourself) dictating policy to a group of people that want to do something!! If you are going to have a meeting on something and I find it offensive I won't go!! I will not throw a fit and make y'all stop your meeting!! That's the difference between us, I do care about your rights, you sir care ONLY about your and nobody else's!! It just has to be your way, no give and take!!! This is why I'm not backing down from people like yourself, that that think they can Bully their beliefs all over other people and expect us to just tuck our tails and let you rule us !!! Not happening here scooter!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Purple Rain]

The phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution. Jefferson wrote it in a letter to the Danbury Baptists in response to their concerns that goverment would interfere with the practice of their Christian faith, which is what is what I believe we are seeing today and is reflected in this thread.

[Macarthur]

I'll tap the brakes and you take a breath and try to reason to reason!!!
I don't want one person (like yourself) dictating policy to a group of people that want to do something!! If you are going to have a meeting on something and I find it offensive I won't go!! I will not throw a fit and make y'all stop your meeting!! That's the difference between us, I do care about your rights, you sir care ONLY about your and nobody else's!! It just has to be your way, no give and take!!! This is why I'm not backing down from people like yourself, that that think they can Bully their beliefs all over other people and expect us to just tuck our tails and let you rule us !!! Not happening here scooter!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

I think there's only one of us ysing reason here.

I think a clear distinction needs to be made here. No one is taking away your right to pray. However, the distinction needs to be made with regards to PRIVATE events versus PUBLICLY funded events. School functions are PUBLICLY funded events. The government can not appear to support one religion over another. When you have a school sponsored prayer, it is favoring one religion over another.

It's not a matter of bullying beliefs. It's a matter of taxpayer funding and those of no faith or different faith have a constitutional right to not have their taxpayer money spent to prop up a particular religion.

As to your point about one person dictating to the majority that want to do something - that's a very flimsy point. I think we would all agree that just because the majority of people agree on something doesn't make it right. There was a time in our country when the majority of people thought slavery was right and didn't feel that women should vote. Those institutions were wrong, regardless of what % of the population was okay with it.

[Macarthur]

The phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution. Jefferson wrote it in a letter to the Danbury Baptists in response to their concerns that goverment would interfere with the practice of their Christian faith, which is what is what I believe we are seeing today and is reflected in this thread.

While that is technically true, this is used as a tool by some to imply that Jefferson didn't REALLY feel that way. Make no mistake, Jefferson believed very strongly about the issue. I would suggest reading the links I posted above, specifically the third link.

Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."

Some Religious activists try to extricate the concept of separation between church and State by claiming that those words do not occur in the Constitution. Indeed they do not, but neither does it exactly say "freedom of religion," yet the First Amendment implies both.

As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

[Macarthur]

shoot.

[Purple Rain]

First, you need to tap the brakes on throwing around the 'your kind' crap. I never said I was a non-believer and that has been thrown around here way too easy. I can be a believer and still think that I do not want my government institutions sponsoring religious activities.

So your answer is that if I don't want government to sponsor religious acitivies, I should just stay home? That's your answer?

BTW, there has not been a single one of my question answered here...

I don't recall anyone here asking for government to SPONSOR religious activities. Instead, just get out of the way and stay out of the way and allow us to practice our faith in our communities as we see fit.

[Inmateboss]

Nor does the views of a few make it wrong!!! You keep wanting to make your view on life my view and that ain't happening! I think your stance is weak but it has been noted,everyone knows how you feel!! Move on, see if that works for you!! If I don't like a thread I move on !! But your so full of self worth that you can't allow yourself or others to be happy or have views different from yours! Lets see if your man enough to just let it go, or prove me right and continue to try to force your beliefs on everyone else!!! Here we go 1 2 3!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

I don't recall anyone here asking for government to SPONSOR religious activities. Instead, just get out of the way and stay out of the way and allow us to practice our faith in our communities as we see fit.

I don't think you are understanding the other side. When a school and/or government function has a prayer, it is by the simple act of doing it, favoring one religion over another.

[Macarthur]

I don't understand why this keeps happening. sorry.

[Inmateboss]

I don't recall anyone here asking for government to SPONSOR religious activities. Instead, just get out of the way and stay out of the way and allow us to practice our faith in our communities as we see fit.

He can't he thinks he is better than everybody else!!! Well I ain't bowing to him or his self-righteous desires!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

Nor does the views of a few make it wrong!!! You keep wanting to make your view on life my view and that ain't happening! I think your stance is weak but it has been noted,everyone knows how you feel!! Move on, see if that works for you!! If I don't like a thread I move on !! But your so full of self worth that you can't allow yourself or others to be happy or have views different from yours! Lets see if your man enough to just let it go, or prove me right and continue to try to force your beliefs on everyone else!!! Here we go 1 2 3!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

In other words, I believe the way I believe and there's no chance I'm wrong and I don't want to talk about it.


I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm simply trying to get you to understand the other side and trying to ask you to make a logical defense for your position. The problem centers around the fact that you are misguided about the motivations of those that have a different view point. I really don't care what you believe or don't believe.

[Macarthur]

He can't he thinks he is better than everybody else!!! Well I ain't bowing to him or his self-righteous desires!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

This is really weird. I have done no such thing.

[Purple Rain]

Thomas Jefferson interpreted the 1st Amendment in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in January 1, 1802:

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."


"

The legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'. We have courts acting beyond their scope and purpose by legislating from the bench and creating new laws that clearly prohibit the free exercise of religion.

[Macarthur]

The legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof'. We have courts acting beyond their scope and purpose by legislating from the bench and creating new laws that clearly prohibit the free exercise of religion.

Examples?

[Purple Rain]

I don't think you are understanding the other side. When a school and/or government function has a prayer, it is by the simple act of doing it, favoring one religion over another.

It is you who does not understand the other side. If my kid goes to a public school that is predominantly Muslim and they want to pray before a game, bow to the East, sacrifice a goat or whatever their practices and rituals are, FINE. Who am I to ask them to stop exercising their freedom of religious expression? If I don't like it, I have options...don't attend, don't participate or better yet, move somewhere else!!! That's what I did when we were in a 5A school system and didn't like the direction things were going. Instead of contacting ACLU, I packed up everything and moved to another school district more to my liking. This is what you do when your priorities are God, family, country...in that order.

[Purple Rain]

Examples?

uh...this thread

[Macarthur]

It is you who does not understand the other side. If my kid goes to a public school that is predominantly Muslim and they want to pray before a game, bow to the East, sacrifice a goat or whatever their practices and rituals are, FINE.

No, it's not fine. IF those things are school sponsored they would be wrong.


Who am I to ask them to stop exercising their freedom of religious expression? If I don't like it, I have options...don't attend, don't participate or better yet, move somewhere else!!! That's what I did when we were in a 5A school system and didn't like the direction things were going. Instead of contacting ACLU, I packed up everything and moved to another school district more to my liking. This is what you do when your priorities are God, family, country...in that order.

Simply using the answer, 'well, then move' is a cop out. It's excusing wrong.



uh...this thread

Sorry, not going to get off that easy. Please provide examples of activist judges taking away religious liberty.

[Inmateboss]

No, it's not fine. IF those things are school sponsored they would be wrong.



Simply using the answer, 'well, then move' is a cop out. It's excusing wrong.



Sorry, not going to get off that easy. Please provide examples of activist judges taking away religious liberty.

Stop!! take a break from the computer go take your meds, wait a couple of hours till they kick in and go talk football or something less stressful for you!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[vtskneb]

The phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the constitution. Jefferson wrote it in a letter to the Danbury Baptists in response to their concerns that goverment would interfere with the practice of their Christian faith, which is what is what I believe we are seeing today and is reflected in this thread.

There is much to left to interpretation in the constitution. Whether intentional or not by the forefathers, it does say, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." I think it is important to leave such things as the prayer to local communities but such behavior will ultimately end up at the SC, should it make someone feel their rights are being infringed on by the act. In which case our system has a check and balance of protecting the minority while implicitly giving the majority the opportunity to have it their way. Just like Burger King.

[Macarthur]

Stop!! take a break from the computer go take your meds, wait a couple of hours till they kick in and go talk football or something less stressful for you!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

I'm great. I'm completely calm and rational. It's others on this thread that need to be rational, and more importantly, provide some actual facts.

It's quite clear who is trying to deflect here and change the course of the conversation.

[Inmateboss]

I'm great. I'm completely calm and rational. It's others on this thread that need to be rational, and more importantly, provide some actual facts.

It's quite clear who is trying to deflect here and change the course of the conversation.

No joke dude, other than telling you to shut up or be rude! We are trying to be nice and get you to find another sandbox to play in!! You are the one that won't listen to reason and want to force your ideas on us! Please go find something constructive to do, and spread your hate and discontent elsewhere !!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Indian 1985]

I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc.
I don't care if a person is gay or straight.
I don't care if a person is black, white, red, yellow or brown.

Every person should have the right to live their own life, and believe in whatever they wish to believe, as long as they respect the equal rights of others to believe in something different, or in nothing at all.
No one should have the right to force their particular belief system on anyone else, or do harm to anyone because of differences in belief systems.
Live and let live.

The moment of silence before a game, allows people of all faiths to send a little personal message to their particular deity of choice, and also allows those of us that are without faith to silently hope that no one gets hurt on either side, without imposing any one religion upon the entire crowd.

If you need some preacher to grab a microphone and tell you what to think, then there isn't much hope for you.

I'm not being mean, nor hateful. I'm just being honest.

[Indian 1985]

Dang, the Downlow is glitchy today.

[rockdale80]

you're assuming everyone who objects is a property owner and pays their taxes.. and a moment of silence or a brief prayer for safety is not exactly PROMOTING a RELIGION..broad strokes of the brush in my opinion... it's called human compassion and it's obvious that some Liberals don't possess that quality. Furthermore, I do pay my fair share of taxes and if I choose to stand and pray at a football game (or anywhere else for that matter (whether it's "lead" or not) I will do it, and if someone finds that offensive, they can kiss my butt.

Nice, we have a moderator taking a political and quasi-personal jab....

I never said anything about a moment of silence or you personally standing up and saying a prayer. By all means, do those things. Having an invocation at a game over the PA is a different story because at that point the school is moving from being considerate or "showing compassion" into constricting a person of a different faith's beliefs and promoting a religion.

There is no broad strokes of a brush. It is a broad stroke of common sense and history of our country.

[Inmateboss]

Heavenly Father we as that you watch over these boys tonight as they compete and keep them safe from injury! Be with the folks driving home and give them safe travel!!!

What Religion is this from???


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

Ask


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

No joke dude, other than telling you to shut up or be rude! We are trying to be nice and get you to find another sandbox to play in!! You are the one that won't listen to reason and want to force your ideas on us! Please go find something constructive to do, and spread your hate and discontent elsewhere !!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

Wow. Are you familiar with the psychological term projection? If not, I suggest you look it up.

I don't care if you are nice to me. All I'm asking is for you to answer questions. We don't have to have a love fest. Just an honest debate. I have not been rude, and to this point, neither have you.

It appears there are 3 options here:
1. You can drop it if you don't want to continue.
2. You can continue to change the subject and try to make this discussion personal instead of talking about the issue.
3. Or you can provide some facts and/or data supporting the positions you have taken.

And please tell me how I have spread hate and discontent? I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation.

[Macarthur]

No joke dude, other than telling you to shut up or be rude! We are trying to be nice and get you to find another sandbox to play in!! You are the one that won't listen to reason and want to force your ideas on us! Please go find something constructive to do, and spread your hate and discontent elsewhere !!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

Wow. Are you familiar with the psychological term projection? If not, I suggest you look it up.

I don't care if you are nice to me. All I'm asking is for you to answer questions. We don't have to have a love fest. Just an honest debate. I have not been rude, and to this point, neither have you.

It appears there are 3 options here:
1. You can drop it if you don't want to continue.
2. You can continue to change the subject and try to make this discussion personal instead of talking about the issue.
3. Or you can provide some facts and/or data supporting the positions you have taken.

And please tell me how I have spread hate and discontent? I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation.

[Purple Rain]

There is much to left to interpretation in the constitution. Whether intentional or not by the forefathers, it does say, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." I think it is important to leave such things as the prayer to local communities but such behavior will ultimately end up at the SC, should it make someone feel their rights are being infringed on by the act. In which case our system has a check and balance of protecting the minority while implicitly giving the majority the opportunity to have it their way. Just like Burger King.

Is "SC" the State Championship or Supreme Court?;)

[44INAROW]

Nice, we have a moderator taking a political and quasi-personal jab....

I never said anything about a moment of silence or you personally standing up and saying a prayer. By all means, do those things. Having an invocation at a game over the PA is a different story because at that point the school is moving from being considerate or "showing compassion" into constricting a person of a different faith's beliefs and promoting a religion.

There is no broad strokes of a brush. It is a broad stroke of common sense and history of our country.
Please tell me which religion is being promoted by saying "Lord, Please bless and protect these young men from harm"

I posted before I read your reply.. sorry Inmate

Heavenly Father we as that you watch over these boys tonight as they compete and keep them safe from injury! Be with the folks driving home and give them safe travel!!!

What Religion is this from???


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

Please tell me which religion is being promoted by saying "Lord, Please bless and protect these young men from harm"

I posted before I read your reply.. sorry Inmate

That's fine same thought!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

First, it doesn't matter which religion, just that it is a religion.

Secondly, Since only Judasim and Christianity use those terms, it's pretty clear which religion it is. It's certainly not muslim, buddism or hindu.

[44INAROW]

I don't understand why this keeps happening. sorry.

are you getting double post too? That keeps happening to me.. not sure what's going on

[vtskneb]

Please tell me which religion is being promoted by saying "Lord, Please bless and protect these young men from harm"

I posted before I read your reply.. sorry Inmate

I think it is the act of a state sponsored organization that has crossed a line. Not the other way around. They would be using pooled money, not one faction or another to promote religion, not one in particular but religion as a whole. That is not the purpose of the government. It is not there to deny or promote, which in lies the interpreted phrase, "separation of church and state" BTW, how do you know you are not conversing with a Republican? I was just curious.

[Macarthur]

are you getting double post too? That keeps happening to me.. not sure what's going on

I am. I guess it's not just me.

[GrTigers6]

I think it is the act of a state sponsored organization that has crossed a line. Not the other way around. They would be using pooled money, not one faction or another to promote religion, not one in particular but religion as a whole. That is not the purpose of the government. It is not there to deny or promote, which in lies the interpreted phrase, "separation of church and state" BTW, how do you know you are not conversing with a Republican? I was just curious.Nor should they be telling us we have to have health insurance, or wear seat belts!

[vtskneb]

Nor should they be telling us we have to have health insurance, or wear seat belts!

You will get no argument from me but that has little to nothing to do with this conversation.

[Purple Rain]

Sorry, not going to get off that easy. Please provide examples of activist judges taking away religious liberty.

OK, let me dumb it down for you. This thread originated, I believe, from someone wanting to know if some schools observed a moment of silence or conducted a prayer. Why?...because activist judges and changes in a small percentage of the public's opinion are making it more and more difficult to do these things and exactly the reason we are having this conversation now. You want case law, go look it up yourself. I work for a living and need to get back to it.

[Inmateboss]

Wow. Are you familiar with the psychological term projection? If not, I suggest you look it up.

I don't care if you are nice to me. All I'm asking is for you to answer questions. We don't have to have a love fest. Just an honest debate. I have not been rude, and to this point, neither have you.

It appears there are 3 options here:
1. You can drop it if you don't want to continue.
2. You can continue to change the subject and try to make this discussion personal instead of talking about the issue.
3. Or you can provide some facts and/or data supporting the positions you have taken.

And please tell me how I have spread hate and discontent? I'm trying to have a reasonable conversation.

It's simple, some people want to have a blessing at a football game and because ( you) don't want to, your saying that we can't!! I'm saying what gives you the right to be the only one right??? You can get all analytical and and debate this all night, but the fact is your not better than me, equal perhaps but saying a blessing at a football is not promoting any religion!! I have been to numerous stadiums this year where they have said a blessing and have yet to hear anybody scream Holy Crap what was that or burst into flames!!! I'm through discussing this issue with you and will not address your comments !! You have your issues I have mine! Move on!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

OK, let me dumb it down for you. This thread originated, I believe, from someone wanting to know if some schools observed a moment of silence or conducted a prayer. Why?...because activist judges and changes in a small percentage of the public's opinion are making it more and more difficult to do these things and exactly the reason we are having this conversation now. You want case law, go look it up yourself. I work for a living and need to get back to it.

As expected, you didn't answer the question, again. I'm not going to go look it up because I'm not the one making that argument. In case you aren't aware of how this thing works, when you make a definitive statement, and a rather strong one at that, the burden of proof is on you to support that statement. It's not on the person you make the statement to.

[Macarthur]

It's simple, some people want to have a blessing at a football game and because ( you) don't want to, your saying that we can't!! I'm saying what gives you the right to be the only one right??? You can get all analytical and and debate this all night, but the fact is your not better than me, equal perhaps but saying a blessing at a football is not promoting any religion!! I have been to numerous stadiums this year where they have said a blessing and have yet to hear anybody scream Holy Crap what was that or burst into flames!!! I'm through discussing this issue with you and will not address your comments !! You have your issues I have mine! Move on!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

Fair enough.

[Purple Rain]

As expected, you didn't answer the question, again. I'm not going to go look it up because I'm not the one making that argument. In case you aren't aware of how this thing works, when you make a definitive statement, and a rather strong one at that, the burden of proof is on you to support that statement. It's not on the person you make the statement to.

OK, I see how this works now (I'm a little slow!). Someone answers your question but you don't like the answer or the answer doesn't fit your agenda, you ignore or dismiss it.

[rockdale80]

Perhaps someone that doesn't believe in the Lord?

And the Lord is a generally a Judeo-Christian term, so it would also not be in accordance to the religious beliefs of those practicing a different religion.

Is your contention that you could make it ambiguous or vague as to not assign a prayer to religion? That is understandable, but there are others that dont believe in any Higher Being that are being infringed upon at that point.

Bottom line is, if you want prayer in school and at school functions then enroll your kids in a private, non-public funded, school.

MacArthur has done a fantastic job mapping this out for everyone, but it is hard to grasp a contradictory idea when you are in a bubble...

[Macarthur]

OK, I see how this works now (I'm a little slow!). Someone answers your question but you don't like the answer or the answer doesn't fit your agenda, you ignore or dismiss it.

What question have I not answered?

[44INAROW]

BTW, how do you know you are not conversing with a Republican? I was just curious.

Many debates with certain posters (over alot of years) and I never insulted him by calling him Democrat - I think I said Liberal lol
It's been fun guys but I gotta run.. but I will say this as my parting shot - some of y'all are really overthinking this alot.. but I am thankful (is it ok to be thankful) that we have the freedom to have this friendly debate and I promise, I won't pray for you folks that don't want me to.. ;)

[rockdale80]

Many debates with certain posters (over alot of years) and I never insulted him by calling him Democrat - I think I said Liberal lol
It's been fun guys but I gotta run.. but I will say this as my parting shot - some of y'all are really overthinking this alot.. but I am thankful (is it ok to be thankful) that we have the freedom to have this friendly debate and I promise, I won't pray for you folks that don't want me to.. ;)

I would rather be a Democrat than an idiot.

See, isn't it fun to make generalizations about people and take personal stabs at them.

[vtskneb]

Many debates with certain posters (over alot of years) and I never insulted him by calling him Democrat - I think I said Liberal lol
It's been fun guys but I gotta run.. but I will say this as my parting shot - some of y'all are really overthinking this alot.. but I am thankful (is it ok to be thankful) that we have the freedom to have this friendly debate and I promise, I won't pray for you folks that don't want me to.. ;)

You can be whatever you want as long as it does not infringe on another's right to do the same. That is not advice that is the law of the land.

[ccmom]

Many debates with certain posters (over alot of years) and I never insulted him by calling him Democrat - I think I said Liberal lol
It's been fun guys but I gotta run.. but I will say this as my parting shot - some of y'all are really overthinking this alot.. but I am thankful (is it ok to be thankful) that we have the freedom to have this friendly debate and I promise, I won't pray for you folks that don't want me to.. ;)

LMAo!

[44INAROW]

I would rather be a Democrat than an idiot.

See, isn't it fun to make generalizations about people and take personal stabs at them.

I expected nothing less from you - some things never change.. Have a good day!

[GrTigers6]

You will get no argument from me but that has little to nothing to do with this conversation.That was Kinda My point!;)

[vtskneb]

That was Kinda My point!;)

Gotcha, I think. Sorry to hijack the thread. How is the excitement around GR leading up to the playoffs?

[GrTigers6]

Gotcha, I think. Sorry to hijack the thread. How is the excitement around GR leading up to the playoffs?Pretty good, just waiting to get done with district

[Inmateboss]

Perhaps someone that doesn't believe in the Lord?

And the Lord is a generally a Judeo-Christian term, so it would also not be in accordance to the religious beliefs of those practicing a different religion.

Is your contention that you could make it ambiguous or vague as to not assign a prayer to religion? That is understandable, but there are others that dont believe in any Higher Being that are being infringed upon at that point.

Bottom line is, if you want prayer in school and at school functions then enroll your kids in a private, non-public funded, school.

MacArthur has done a fantastic job mapping this out for everyone, but it is hard to grasp a contradictory idea when you are in a bubble...

The bubble is over you sir! If you have 1000 people in the stands that want to have a prayer and your sitting there and don't believe in a god or higher being, then we should not do it because you don't want it??? How about you listen to the prayer because we want you too! Same thing, right !!! Why should you be able to dictate policy to us !!! Does it cost the school "money" for us to do it?No! did the school have to hire somebody to say it? No! My whole point here is why do the majority have to be ruled by a few!!! It's not right by anybody's definition !!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

The bubble is over you sir! If you have 1000 people in the stands that want to have a prayer and your sitting there and don't believe in a god or higher being, then we should not do it because you don't want it???


You really don't understand how this works do you? We do not live in a country where majority rules. You conveniently ignored my previous post where I said there was a time in history when the majority thought slavery was okay. Does that make it any less wrong?

[Farmersfan]

It's simple, some people want to have a blessing at a football game and because ( you) don't want to, your saying that we can't!! I'm saying what gives you the right to be the only one right??? You can get all analytical and and debate this all night, but the fact is your not better than me, equal perhaps but saying a blessing at a football is not promoting any religion!! I have been to numerous stadiums this year where they have said a blessing and have yet to hear anybody scream Holy Crap what was that or burst into flames!!! I'm through discussing this issue with you and will not address your comments !! You have your issues I have mine! Move on!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5





It's a really elementary concept! I can't understand how you fail to understand the contradictions of your own comments. Let's try an analogy:

Two people in a restaurant having dinner. One person wants to sing a song at the top of his lungs. The other doesn't want any noise. Which person is being violated, #1. The person that is told he cannot sing because it disturbs the others or #2. The other person who is told he must either sit and listen to the other person sing or find another place to eat? this is a public eating place and not a public singing place and both people have equal rights to be there. which would you say is having their rights violated?

[vtskneb]

Pretty good, just waiting to get done with district

Huh, I figured things would be a buzz. Well good luck to you folks and burn the wood.

[Farmersfan]

The bubble is over you sir! If you have 1000 people in the stands that want to have a prayer and your sitting there and don't believe in a god or higher being, then we should not do it because you don't want it??? How about you listen to the prayer because we want you too! Same thing, right !!! Why should you be able to dictate policy to us !!! Does it cost the school "money" for us to do it?No! did the school have to hire somebody to say it? No! My whole point here is why do the majority have to be ruled by a few!!! It's not right by anybody's definition !!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5



It is you who is representing the few. Only 2 out of every 10 persons surveyed said they wanted a public prayer. Of course you will spin this to suit your argument but the facts are very few American want more than a moment of silence that enables everybody to take care of their own personal religious needs. And this is the only really acceptable option that could be put in place.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx

[44INAROW]

It is you who is representing the few. Only 2 out of every 10 persons surveyed said they wanted a public prayer. Of course you will spin this to suit your argument but the facts are very few American want more than a moment of silence that enables everybody to take care of their own personal religious needs. And this is the only really acceptable option that could be put in place.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx
just for argument sake, (besides the fact this is from 2005) this is prayer IN SCHOOL - I think the question was posed about prayer before a sporting event (I don't recall the exact question)
I can post a poll too.. I have no idea what the date is though..

Student-Lead Prayer
Are you in favor of student-lead prayer before sporting events?

70% In favor.
25% Against.
5% No opinion.

4037 Total votes cast.
http://life.familyeducation.com/tv/pollresult.php#ixzz2BfiP0KvR
I will say this too - I think the 'moment of silence' probably causes the least amount of friction and basically covers all the bases.........

[vtskneb]

....posted same poll sorry.

[OldBison75]

The referenced poll asked only 1001 people. It does not specify what part of the country or the demographics involved. That is a very small sampling to be able to say that "Americans" favor one or the other. It is also a proven fact that such polls can be heavily influenced by the area of the country polled and the demographics of the people polled.

That said, my friend, I suspect that those numbers are not that far off base. As you know, me and you have discussed our beliefs before. I think that the moment of silence to allow each person to pay respect to whatever belief they choose is the best answer to the question proposed by this thread. However, I will say that my moment of silence will be with my God at the focal point of my thoughts.

[vtskneb]

The referenced poll asked only 1001 people. It does not specify what part of the country or the demographics involved. That is a very small sampling to be able to say that "Americans" favor one or the other. It is also a proven fact that such polls can be heavily influenced by the area of the country polled and the demographics of the people polled.

That said, my friend, I suspect that those numbers are not that far off base. As you know, me and you have discussed our beliefs before. I think that the moment of silence to allow each person to pay respect to whatever belief they choose is the best answer to the question proposed by this thread. However, I will say that my moment of silence will be with my God at the focal point of my thoughts.

You are welcome to challenge Gallup. I am sure they will be happy to explain statistically sampling and how they can project their sample size over the population.

[OldBison75]

If you will notice my entire post, I said that I did not think that the poll was that far off reality on this question. I was just pointing out that such an undescribed and small sampling is sometimes hard to judge when projected over the entire nation. Was this a sampling that was taken in Utah or the northeast. I can pretty much assure you the numbers would be different in comparison.

I stand by my point that I believe that the moment of silence is the most appropriate way to address the issue with the least controversy.

[Ragin Red]

Nice, we have a moderator taking a political and quasi-personal jab....

I never said anything about a moment of silence or you personally standing up and saying a prayer. By all means, do those things. Having an invocation at a game over the PA is a different story because at that point the school is moving from being considerate or "showing compassion" into constricting a person of a different faith's beliefs and promoting a religion.

There is no broad strokes of a brush. It is a broad stroke of common sense and history of our country.

There will be earplugs handed out to those who don't want to here a blessing over the players and parents, etc. traveling to and from the games. Not forcing anyone to listen. Please take a pair with you, that is my right and freedom to here a student say a blessing just as you say it is their right to not have mine or anyone else's religion forced upon them.

[Macarthur]

There will be earplugs handed out to those who don't want to here a blessing over the players and parents, etc. traveling to and from the games. Not forcing anyone to listen. Please take a pair with you, that is my right and freedom to here a student say a blessing just as you say it is their right to not have mine or anyone else's religion forced upon them.

:dispntd:

[Txbroadcaster]

Why for some of you is a moment of silence simply not enough? that way everyone wins

[SintonFan]

Question to everyone claiming they want public prayer at football games: Is it your belief that God will not protect the kids if you don't pray for that protection? Is it your belief that God won't KNOW about the football game and therefore won't be able to protect those kids unless you pray and let him know the protection is needed? If not for the public promotion of your religious beliefs then what possible rational reason could you give for the need or desire to pray at that particular time?

It's been done for YEARS! Why change it now? For the few "enlightened"? :eek:
I say no.

[SintonFan]

There will be earplugs handed out to those who don't want to here a blessing over the players and parents, etc. traveling to and from the games. Not forcing anyone to listen. Please take a pair with you, that is my right and freedom to here a student say a blessing just as you say it is their right to not have mine or anyone else's religion forced upon them.

Or they could put their fingers in their ears and say, "LALALALALA". :D

[Inmateboss]

It's a really elementary concept! I can't understand how you fail to understand the contradictions of your own comments. Let's try an analogy:

Two people in a restaurant having dinner. One person wants to sing a song at the top of his lungs. The other doesn't want any noise. Which person is being violated, #1. The person that is told he cannot sing because it disturbs the others or #2. The other person who is told he must either sit and listen to the other person sing or find another place to eat? this is a public eating place and not a public singing place and both people have equal rights to be there. which would you say is having their rights violated?

Well I would say your not eating a fine German restaurant! But if everyone in the restaurant burst out in song and was having a great time does the one person that wants silence have the right to close the place down?? No, he does have the right to get up stomp out and holler " I hate y'all" (he's from Texas) and go somewhere else!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

It is you who is representing the few. Only 2 out of every 10 persons surveyed said they wanted a public prayer. Of course you will spin this to suit your argument but the facts are very few American want more than a moment of silence that enables everybody to take care of their own personal religious needs. And this is the only really acceptable option that could be put in place.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/18136/public-favors-voluntary-prayer-public-schools.aspx

I might as well, you just did!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[rb585]

I don't care if someone is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, etc.
I don't care if a person is gay or straight.
I don't care if a person is black, white, red, yellow or brown.

Every person should have the right to live their own life, and believe in whatever they wish to believe, as long as they respect the equal rights of others to believe in something different, or in nothing at all.
No one should have the right to force their particular belief system on anyone else, or do harm to anyone because of differences in belief systems.
Live and let live.

The moment of silence before a game, allows people of all faiths to send a little personal message to their particular deity of choice, and also allows those of us that are without faith to silently hope that no one gets hurt on either side, without imposing any one religion upon the entire crowd.

If you need some preacher to grab a microphone and tell you what to think, then there isn't much hope for you.

I'm not being mean, nor hateful. I'm just being honest.

Very well said.

Also, props to Macarthur for trying to wade through all the mindless attacks.

[SintonFan]

It's been done for YEARS! Why change it now? For the few "enlightened"? :eek:
I say no.

Farmersfan... again I say. Why change it NOW?

[vtskneb]

Farmersfan... again I say. Why change it NOW?

Time did not start with Friday night HS football. Although, it sure is fun to be apart of.

[Macarthur]

Why for some of you is a moment of silence simply not enough? that way everyone wins

Fine w me.

[Macarthur]

It's been done for YEARS! Why change it now? For the few "enlightened"? :eek:
I say no.

So because we've done something wrong forever, why change? I'm sure those against the abolition of slavery said the same thing.

[rockdale80]

Mac, stop using logic on the illogical. That never works.

[Macarthur]

Mac, stop using logic on the illogical. That never works.

I know, right? :thinking:

[Blue42]

Oh what a miserable existence it must be for those who do not believe . Maybe that is why they would like to try to make others as unhappy as they are. My God bless you all even if you don’t believe.

[Ragin Red]

Well this is Friday and we're in the same place where the few try to force their beliefs on the many, we will just have to agree to disagree and prepare for Friday night football(psst this is where you need to close your eyes if you do not want to see a blessing given out to all teams traveling to and from) Lord please watch out for the teams traveling to and from to nights ball games keep them safe from injury on the field and in their travel. Be with the fans as they travel to the games to support their teams in this final week of regular season, keep them safe and help guide them in their journey. Be with the Bands and Cheerleaders and their perspective leaders as they also travel to support their teams, keep them safe also. In all these things we the( MANY ) safe AMEN.

[Macarthur]

Oh what a miserable existence it must be for those who do not believe . Maybe that is why they would like to try to make others as unhappy as they are. My God bless you all even if you don’t believe.

just because someone holds the position on no prayer doesn't mean they are a non believer. -

[Inmateboss]

Oh what a miserable existence it must be for those who do not believe . Maybe that is why they would like to try to make others as unhappy as they are. My God bless you all even if you don’t believe.

Amen to that!!! Basement dwellers feel the need to spew their venom and spread hate and discontent wherever possible!! But it's fine, if talking about prayer or invocation at a Friday night football game in Texas brings them to that euphoric plateau, well, I guess that's a good thing!!! God bless


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

Well this is Friday and we're in the same place where the few try to force their beliefs on the many, we will just have to agree to disagree and prepare for Friday night football(psst this is where you need to close your eyes if you do not want to see a blessing given out to all teams traveling to and from) Lord please watch out for the teams traveling to and from to nights ball games keep them safe from injury on the field and in their travel. Be with the fans as they travel to the games to support their teams in this final week of regular season, keep them safe and help guide them in their journey. Be with the Bands and Cheerleaders and their perspective leaders as they also travel to support their teams, keep them safe also. In all these things we the( MANY ) safe AMEN.

Amen Red !!! Great job! Hope everyone has safe travels tonight, and no injuries on the field!! Even for the non believers, and self righteous !!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Macarthur]

Amen to that!!! Basement dwellers feel the need to spew their venom and spread hate and discontent wherever possible!! But it's fine, if talking about prayer or invocation at a Friday night football game in Texas brings them to that euphoric plateau, well, I guess that's a good thing!!! God bless


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

It is interesting which one's on this board have been more 'Chrisit-like'. I've only seen one person spewing venom and hate....

[panfan]

Amen Red !!! Great job! Hope everyone has safe travels tonight, and no injuries on the field!! Even for the non believers, and self righteous !!!
Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

Self-righteousness - (also called sanctimoniousness, sententiousness, and holier-than-thou attitudes[1]) is a feeling of (usually) smug moral superiority[2] derived from a sense that one's beliefs, actions, or affiliations are of greater virtue than those of the average person.

Seems to me you are using the wrong term here - becuase it would imply you are describing yourself. just saying......

Red - it was a nice prayer.

Having it at the games - I'll roll with local custom - moment of silence or prayer- makes me no nevermind because I'm strong enough about my beliefs and convictions that I don't need to convince, recruit or convert others to make me feel better about what I believe.

[Ragin Red]

It is interesting which one's on this board have been more 'Chrisit-like'. I've only seen one person spewing venom and hate....
I agree, but won't hold that against you

Good luck to all teams tonight

[Inmateboss]

Seems to me you are using the wrong term here - becuase it would imply you are describing yourself. just saying......

Take it as you may!




Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Inmateboss]

This piece was written in 1965 by Paul Harvey (1918 - 2009). This man was brilliant. He was seeing the beginning of the demise of the great US of A almost a half century ago.

If I were the Devil...if I were the Prince of Darkness, I'd want to engulf the whole world in darkness and I'd have a third of its real estate and 4/5 of its population, but I wouldn't be happy until I'd seized the ripest apple on the tree - thee.
...
So I'd set about however necessary to take over the United States. I'd subvert churches first. I'd begin with a campaign of whispers. With the wisdom of a serpent, I would whisper to you as I whispered to Eve: "Do as you please." To the young, I would whisper that the Bible is a myth. I would convince them that man created God instead of the other way around. I would confide that what is bad is good, and what is good is "square". And the old, I would teach to pray after me: "Our Father, which art in Washington". And then, I'd get organized.

I'd educate authors in how to make lurid literature exciting so that anything else would appear dull and uninteresting. I'd threaten TV with dirtier movies and vice versa. I'd peddle narcotics to whom I could. I'd sell alcohol to ladies and gentlemen of distinction. I'd tranquilize the rest with pills.

If I were the devil, I'd soon have families at war with themselves, churches at war with themselves, and nations at war with themselves until each in its turn was consumed. And with promises of higher ratings, I'd have mesmerizing media fanning the flames.

If I were the devil, I would encourage schools to refine young intellects but neglect to discipline emotions just let them run wild until before you knew it, you'd have drug sniffing dogs and metal detectors at every schoolhouse door.

Within a decade, I'd have prisons overflowing. I'd have judges promoting pornography. Soon I could evict God from the courthouse, and then from the schoolhouse, and then from the houses of Congress. And in His own churches I would substitute psychology for religion and deify science. I would lure priests and pastors into misusing boys and girls and church money.

If I were the devil, I'd make the symbol of Easter an egg and the symbol of Christmas a bottle.

If I were the devil, I would take from those who have and I would give to those who wanted until I had killed the incentive of the ambitious. And what will you bet that I couldn't get whole states to promote gambling as the way to get rich?

I would caution against extremes in hard work, in patriotism, in moral conduct. I would convince the young that marriage is old fashioned, that swinging is more fun, that what you see on TV is the way to be and thus I could undress you in public, and I could lure you into bed with diseases for which there is no cure.

In other words, if I were the devil, I'd just keep right on doing what he's doing.


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Eagle 1]

Prayer over a loud speaker is NOT PROMOTING RELIGION, just as these ARE NOT PROMOTING RELIGION.
They are basically expressing their faith.
If you don't believe thats fine.
Just don't infringe on our right to express our faith.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2a01efn.jpg



After the Winters game;

http://www.1atexasfootball.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=69&sid=df5a72034cf39fd0ce6babcdaf95a583

[Ragin Red]

Prayer over a loud speaker is NOT PROMOTING RELIGION, just as these ARE NOT PROMOTING RELIGION.
They are basically expressing their faith.
If you don't believe thats fine.
Just don't infringe on our right to express our faith.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2a01efn.jpg






After the Winters game;

http://www.1atexasfootball.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=69&sid=df5a72034cf39fd0ce6babcdaf95a583

:iagree::clap::clap::2thumbsup

[Inmateboss]

Prayer over a loud speaker is NOT PROMOTING RELIGION, just as these ARE NOT PROMOTING RELIGION.
They are basically expressing their faith.
If you don't believe thats fine.
Just don't infringe on our right to express our faith.

http://oi46.tinypic.com/2a01efn.jpg



After the Winters game;

http://www.1atexasfootball.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=69&sid=df5a72034cf39fd0ce6babcdaf95a58 3

Amen brother !!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Indian 1985]

Oh what a miserable existence it must be for those who do not believe . Maybe that is why they would like to try to make others as unhappy as they are. My God bless you all even if you don’t believe.

Miserable existence for not believing?
How dare you?
Arrogant, rude, condescending, judgmental, holier than thou, closed minded people like you are one of the many reasons that people like me reject your religions, and choose not to believe in your invisible sky fairies.
You, and others like you, are the ones that are making other people's lives miserable, by trying to force your particular beliefs upon others.
Your attitudes, and false blessings are insulting.
Before you begin to judge others, take a look in the mirror. Are you deserving of such piety?
Perhaps you should learn to think before you speak, or read the book of Matthew.
Pay close attention to the "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself" part of it.

I do not know you, but I do pity you.

[Inmateboss]

Miserable existence for not believing?
How dare you?
Arrogant, rude, condescending, judgmental, holier than thou, closed minded people like you are one of the many reasons that people like me reject your religions, and choose not to believe in your invisible sky fairies.
You, and others like you, are the ones that are making other people's lives miserable, by trying to force your particular beliefs upon others.
Your attitudes, and false blessings are insulting.
Before you begin to judge others, take a look in the mirror. Are you deserving of such piety?
Perhaps you should learn to think before you speak, or read the book of Matthew.
Pay close attention to the "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself" part of it.

I do not know you, but I do pity you.

Sky Fairies???? Then suggest the Bible for needed reading??? Wow, just plain and simple, WOW!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

[Indian 1985]

Sky Fairies???? Then suggest the Bible for needed reading??? Wow, just plain and simple, WOW!!!


Expect to win, Play to win!!! Go Graham Steers
Go # 5

LOL
Yeah, don't you just love the irony? ;)

[Bullaholic]

A man asked another on a warm day--"Sir, would you like a drink of my water?"
The other man replies---WATER! What kind? Are you trying to make me drink your water and become a water drinker?"

Reply- "I'm sorry, I thought you might be thirsty. I'm sorry if I offended you."