Question for Ernest T. Bass, or others, regarding Refugio

[stxfan]

Last year I had an argument, primarily with Ernest T. Bass, about the whole Refugio issue. In short, ET Bass supported their coach and I was adamantly against what was happening. On a broader scale, the dividing line on the Refugio argument is very pronounced -- feelings are very, very strong on each side -- I highly doubt anyone will change their mind about the coach at this point. We are either for him or against him. He's either doing right by his kids or exhibiting poor sportsmanship.

With that said, I really want to understand last night's decision. I wasn't at the game but according to newspapers, Refugio is up 24-0 and on Banquete's 1-yard line with 3 seconds remaining in the game. Refugio calls a timeout and then scores.

Please. I would like to have a civil discussion. Previously, I was sarcastic with ET Bass. I am going to try and look at this with an open mind.

Is it justifiable or not to have called a timeout with 3 seconds on the opponent's 1-yard line, up by 24, and then score?

Thank you.

[Bug Truck]

Shows no class by the coach.

[defense51]

It serves no purpose other than improving stats. :thmbdwn:

[ogg]

Future paybacks will be a b**** for Refugio.

[99IHSMustang]

It serves no purpose other than improving stats. :thmbdwn:

This is the point I have tried to make and have a stance on. I try to avoid giving my opinion because it does no good when fans or supporters of the said team start saying people are just hating. Unfortunately you do get lumped in with those who truly want to hate. It is hard keeping it civil with this topic.

[Bassact]

Working on clock management and finishing a drive at the end of a game will be the reasoning. Although I 100% disagree wth what the coach has been doing.

[stxfan]

This is the point I have tried to make and have a stance on. I try to avoid giving my opinion because it does no good when fans or supporters of the said team start saying people are just hating. Unfortunately you do get lumped in with those who truly want to hate. It is hard keeping it civil with this topic.

It is hard keeping it civil. But, what does one more TD truly accomplish? And to get it, he had to call timeout with 3 seconds. If it's true, as you and defense51 say, that it is to improve stats, that goes counter to what the coach has argued all along. That his starters are left in to get ready for playoffs. But, calling a TO to score when up by 21 -- are you really making your team playoff ready?

Finally, back to you and defense51, what good does it do for you to pad stats? Doesn't change the playoff picture, or any kind of seeding.

Thank you.

[99IHSMustang]

It is hard keeping it civil. But, what does one more TD truly accomplish? And to get it, he had to call timeout with 3 seconds. If it's true, as you and defense51 say, that it is to improve stats, that goes counter to what the coach has argued all along. That his starters are left in to get ready for playoffs. But, calling a TO to score when up by 21 -- are you really making your team playoff ready?

Finally, back to you and defense51, what good does it do for you to pad stats? Doesn't change the playoff picture, or any kind of seeding.

Thank you.

I should have made my stance more clear. I do not agree with the call whatsoever. I believe it was also for the sake of how the margin of victory looked. To answer both of your questions, IMO it does nothing to make your playoff team ready and the stat is meaningles at that point in the game. They have already proven at this point to have a talented team, haven't they? The coach is very much sticking to there slogan this year "Leave NO DOUBT!".

[defense51]

I should have made my stance more clear. I do not agree with the call whatsoever. I believe it was also for the sake of how the margin of victory looked. To answer both of your questions, IMO it does nothing to make your playoff team ready and the stat is meaningles at that point in the game. They have already proven at this point to have a talented team, haven't they? The coach is very much sticking to there slogan this year "Leave NO DOUBT!".
:ditto:

[TarponFanInNorthTexas]

Regarding Refugio, I never said much about it, but I did support what their coach was doing LAST YEAR, which was prepping his starters for the long haul. It won them a State Championship.

However, this "calling a timeout with 3 seconds left" when they already had the game won, just to score ANOTHER touchdown. I'm sorry but that crosses the line.

That coach needs to check himself. I'm surprised the coaching staff from Banquete didn't attempt to do physical harm towards him. I know I would have if I were them.

[stxfan]

I recall a couple of folks very much in his corner -- RedRaider?? and a youth coach from LH? I'm not trying to bait them but I would be interested in hearing their opinion.

Thank you.

[speedbump]

I recall a couple of folks very much in his corner -- RedRaider?? and a youth coach from LH? I'm not trying to bait them but I would be interested in hearing their opinion.

Thank you.

That guys actions can't possibly be defended, period. He should be made to wear Mickey Mouse ears at games throughout the playoffs.
.

[Rabid Cougar]

Should make him play in Region III or Region II. There are teams in those Regions that would put him in his place.

[raider red 2000]

The coach I am sure has his reasons. I didn't ask, and I won't. He is a friend of mine and my son's Sunday school teacher, so you won't hear me say anything bad about the dude.

I agree with 95% of the stuff he does.

[raider red 2000]

Should make him play in Region III or Region II. There are teams in those Regions that would put him in his place.
Region 4 is the toughest region this year. Refugio Lexington Rogers East Barnyard. Any of those teams could win state. I think region 4 wins it, but I don't know who it will be.

[stxfan]

Again, red raider, I'm trying to take off my jaded glasses and understand only last night's actions. Just because he's a family friend doesn't mean you can't talk about last night's call.

Thank you.

[ctown81]

Again, red raider, I'm trying to take off my jaded glasses and understand only last night's actions. Just because he's a family friend doesn't mean you can't talk about last night's call.

Thank you.

I think red raider has passively answered your question. He's didn't try to defend his actions and I imagine this was not part of the 95% he agrees with.

[Mojo84]

The coach I am sure has his reasons. I didn't ask, and I won't. He is a friend of mine and my son's Sunday school teacher, so you won't hear me say anything bad about the dude.

I agree with 95% of the stuff he does.

Makes me wonder what church. His actions don't do much to further his witness.

[speedbump]

The coach I am sure has his reasons. I didn't ask, and I won't. He is a friend of mine and my son's Sunday school teacher, so you won't hear me say anything bad about the dude.

I agree with 95% of the stuff he does.

Reasons and excuses are two different things. He had no reason, period. I don't care if he's a priest.

[Ville]

Payback a bich

[raider red 2000]

Reasons and excuses are two different things. He had no reason, period. I don't care if he's a priest.
I could come up with a few reasons. I don't know why he did it.
- spite the other team
- spite the refs
- get a sr a TD
- to tick off the people that thought it was funny to "decorate" RHS in black and green.
- to maintain his name as coach satan
- to motivate his kids
- to keep refugio fans happy.
- to make sure the bobcats are the most hated team in the state. So kids play with a chip on their shoulder.

Those are all reasons. I don't know if any of those are his reasons. I guarantee he won't make excuses. Excuses usually happens when things go wrong. That last TD was planned.

[rb585]

If I were the ref, I would have somehow found a holding penalty on the play.

[raider red 2000]

If I were the ref, I would have somehow found a holding penalty on the play.
The play before a kid scored but was called down on the 1. I predicted that a mystery holding call would have been called. It has happened all year long. I wouldn't have faulted the ref for doing it.

[regaleagle]

Every dawg has his day......and then will be made to pay. Not talking about the players here. Mirror, mirror....on the wall. Who's the baddest of them all??? Hey everybody, look at me. OH me, oh me, Oh me, OH MY......is there a greater coach in the land than I!!! Win, Win, Win......that's the only thing that counts.

[Rabid Cougar]

Region 4 is the toughest region this year. Refugio Lexington Rogers East Barnyard. Any of those teams could win state. I think region 4 wins it, but I don't know who it will be.


Cameron 38- Lexington 20

[speedbump]

I could come up with a few reasons. I don't know why he did it.
- spite the other team
- spite the refs
- get a sr a TD
- to tick off the people that thought it was funny to "decorate" RHS in black and green.
- to maintain his name as coach satan
- to motivate his kids
- to keep refugio fans happy.
- to make sure the bobcats are the most hated team in the state. So kids play with a chip on their shoulder.

Those are all reasons. I don't know if any of those are his reasons. I guarantee he won't make excuses. Excuses usually happens when things go wrong. That last TD was planned.

My mistake. I could have saved you all that weak BS if I'd have said GOOD reason.

[Eagle 1]

He should be made to wear Mickey Mouse ears at games throughout the playoffs.
.

There would be no room with those donkey ears he already wears.

Region IV may be tough, but Refugio was lucky to get past Cisco last year. I have a feeling IF the bobcats make it back to the state game, then there may be a different opponent across from them. In that case, they better score all they can now.

Edit to add: Personally I don't think he runs the score up for the good of the team. I think he does it because he likes all the controversy it causes.

[rb585]

Cameron 38- Lexington 20

Thanks, Einstein.

Yoe is D-1. Lexington, EB, Rogers, and Refugio are all D-2.

[raider red 2000]

My mistake. I could have saved you all that weak BS if I'd have said GOOD reason.
Sorry rice turd. Win a ring and talk. save us all some weak BS.

[Old Tiger]

Boo hoo so lil Johnny won't get a participation ribbon because another team is scoring a lot of points. Quit crying about, deal with it, and do something about it if you don't like it.

[MustangFootball]

He called timeout and scored that last TD so people wouldn't think the game was closer than it was plain and simple.

[FmrPirate14]

Sorry rice turd. Win a ring and talk. save us all some weak BS.

..sooo were you on their team last year or did you win a ring coaching? If not then you shouldn't tell someone to "win a ring then talk" if you haven't accomplished that either

[raider red 2000]

..sooo were you on their team last year or did you win a ring coaching? If not then you shouldn't tell someone to "win a ring then talk" if you haven't accomplished that either

I am too lazy to take a picture of it for you. But I have one.

[Matthew328]

Should make him play in Region III or Region II. There are teams in those Regions that would put him in his place.

Lexington really showed em last year!! ohhh wait....

[speedbump]

I am too lazy to take a picture of it for you. But I have one.

Cracker Jacks or gum ball machine?

[FmrPirate14]

I am too lazy to take a picture of it for you. But I have one.

You failed to answer my question. Were you a player or coach for the bobcats last year? Or have you coached another team to a state championship and I mean coach as you were AD

[Buff42]

Last year I had an argument, primarily with Ernest T. Bass, about the whole Refugio issue. In short, ET Bass supported their coach and I was adamantly against what was happening. On a broader scale, the dividing line on the Refugio argument is very pronounced -- feelings are very, very strong on each side -- I highly doubt anyone will change their mind about the coach at this point. We are either for him or against him. He's either doing right by his kids or exhibiting poor sportsmanship.

With that said, I really want to understand last night's decision. I wasn't at the game but according to newspapers, Refugio is up 24-0 and on Banquete's 1-yard line with 3 seconds remaining in the game. Refugio calls a timeout and then scores.

Please. I would like to have a civil discussion. Previously, I was sarcastic with ET Bass. I am going to try and look at this with an open mind.

Is it justifiable or not to have called a timeout with 3 seconds on the opponent's 1-yard line, up by 24, and then score?

Thank you.

No. Completely classless. It's a shame the good people of Refugio support this terrible teaching example for their young people.

[pancho villa]

last i checked it is the Defenses job to stop the Offense. Even with 3 seconds left.

[Bullaholic]

Showing respect and compassion for a very weak team by a much stronger team is not a sign of weakness. Never has been to most sports fans.

[Buff42]

last i checked it is the Defenses job to stop the Offense. Even with 3 seconds left.

Come on Pancho. I usually agree with you, but this is foolish. Of course the Defense has a job to do. Play to to the whistle and all that stuff.

Nobody loves to completely dominate an opponent more than I do. Complete and total destruction. But once you have accomplished that, it's time to show class and sportsmanship. The coach has that job to do just like the defense has a job to do.

This is from the UIL Coaches Code of Conduct: "Improper Gamesmanship - Promote sportsmanship over gamesmanship. DO NOT CHEAT. Resist the temptation to gain competitive advantage through strategies or techniques that violate the rules, disrespect the highest traditions of the sport or change the nature of competition." The complete document is on the UIL webiste here- http://www.uiltexas.org/files/athletics/manuals/sportsmanship-manual.pdf

IMO, Hering should be addressed by the UIL at some point. HE IS DISRESPECTING THE HIGHEST TRADITIONS OF THE GAME. He is obviously failing at sportsmanship so badly that his actions tarnish the game as badly as if he was paying off officials. Not much difference in my book.

[pirate4state]

Showing respect and compassion for a very weak team by a much stronger team is not a sign of weakness. Never has been to most sports fans.

I know it seems sillly to say, but Banquete wasn't a weak team. The score was 10-0 at the end of the 3rd quarter. Banquete was in the redzone a few times, just could not punch it in. I find it amusing that Refugio fans are crying about green ribbons over on their side of the field or whatever, but are okay with the last :03 seconds of play. LMAO

The Refugio coach is a slapie.

[Phil C]

Reasons and excuses are two different things. He had no reason, period. I don't care if he's a priest.

speedbump I admire the Catholic Church.

[pancho villa]

speedbump I admire the Catholic Church.

Maybe the teams playing Refugio need to say more "Hail Marys" not throw them!

[Phil C]

Refugio says they need to keep starters in so they can be ready for the playoffs even though they run up the score. What about the needless risk of injury exposure? Also what about the many teams that have won state championships who did so without running up the score on purpose? Sounds like rational for unsportsmanship justification.

[Phil C]

The coach I am sure has his reasons. I didn't ask, and I won't. He is a friend of mine and my son's Sunday school teacher, so you won't hear me say anything bad about the dude.

I agree with 95% of the stuff he does.

I know you can't won't post the church's name but if you did I would post a big pro Refugio thread for once. :) ;)

[Phil C]

On a serious note they went for the passing record which was a lack of class. If you must leave your starters in I can see running basic plays which uses the clock but that is piling on the score. I admire records when they are needed like the close high score a few weeks ago that set yardage records because every yard was needed. Even Oklahoma when they whipped Texas this year had their players actually telling the UT defense what they were going to run. Of course the defense still didn't stop them but give the Sooners credit for trying.

[hollywood]

Egos

[Phil C]

I know you can't won't post the church's name but if you did I would post a big pro Refugio thread for once. :) ;)

This was meant tongue in check. Please don't respond to this.

[Ernest T Bass]

I disagree with this move 100%. No honorable reason for it at all.

[stxfan]

I disagree with this move 100%. No honorable reason for it at all.

Thank you for your opinion.

As much as I disagreed with you on the broader "Refugio Issue" last year, I did think your argument had reasoning to it, rather than just emotion.

Thank you, again.

[Gsquared]

Why doesnt the WOS defense let up late in the 4th and let somebody score? :D

[buff4ever]

The guy may not be likeable, it may come out in refugio over time that they don't even like him. He is a good coach, that is obvious. He will have his day without athletes, and he will face a little payback by those that are capable. My guess is, in those days, you will find out what kind of person he really is. Right now he is a great coach (athletically speaking no questions, character speaking?????), to the people in refugio probably a great guy, someone that everyone around the state wants to beat.

Getting on here and discussing his ways and decision making is going to change nothing. Probably egg it on to be honest.

[99IHSMustang]

The guy may not be likeable, it may come out in refugio over time that they don't even like him. He is a good coach, that is obvious. He will have his day without athletes, and he will face a little payback by those that are capable. My guess is, in those days, you will find out what kind of person he really is. Right now he is a great coach (athletically speaking no questions, character speaking?????), to the people in refugio probably a great guy, someone that everyone around the state wants to beat.

Getting on here and discussing his ways and decision making is going to change nothing. Probably egg it on to be honest.

I have read some say that he had his reasons, but ultimately it comes down to setting a higher standard and example. If that is not something that he is concerned with then that is his right, but he shouldn't be suprised with the responses that he gets.

[stxfan]

I'm definitely on the side against what he's done in the past. The fact many defend him obviously means a lot of folks understand and support his reasons last year.

That said, this one play, calling timeout with 3 seconds left, seems beyond any logical explanation.

[hollywood]

I'm definitely on the side against what he's done in the past. The fact many defend him obviously means a lot of folks understand and support his reasons last year.

That said, this one play, calling timeout with 3 seconds left, seems beyond any logical explanation.

True, but what about the ethic of giving 100% no matter what? Refugio gives their 100% and the other teams give their 100%. Who wins? Both do if they both truly give their 100%. We've always been taught to give 100% at everything we do. It's a perception issue some have relating score differentials in basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc. versus football. Out scoring an opponent in basketball by 70 points is "OK" but out scoring an opponent in football by 70 points is not? I agree that it sounds "unsportsman like" to call a timeout with 3 seconds to score another TD when up 23-0, but why not? It's not Refugio's fault they are up 23-0. I think the true lesson to ask is what does this coach teach his athletes in ethics. If he's teaching them good work ethics and to give 100% during the game, compassion for the opponent is after the whistle.

[stxfan]

True, but what about the ethic of giving 100% no matter what? Refugio gives their 100% and the other teams give their 100%. Who wins? Both do if they both truly give their 100%. We've always been taught to give 100% at everything we do. It's a perception issue some have relating score differentials in basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc. versus football. Out scoring an opponent in basketball by 70 points is "OK" but out scoring an opponent in football by 70 points is not? I agree that it sounds "unsportsman like" to call a timeout with 3 seconds to score another TD when up 23-0, but why not? It's not Refugio's fault they are up 23-0. I think the true lesson to ask is what does this coach teach his athletes in ethics. If he's teaching them good work ethics and to give 100% during the game, compassion for the opponent is after the whistle.

Thanks for your post, hollywood. I really do understand the lessons of giving 100% and enjoying the benefits when you do. But I think you will have a hard time convincing people that calling a TO with 3 seconds is part of that lesson. I think at that point he has definitely reached diminishing returns. Is he really teaching those kids a hard work lesson at that point?

Thank you.