Tampa Bay knocking the h*ll out of the Center...

[Macarthur]

I'm interested in eveyrone's take on this.

I think it's a chicken S play. Someone is going to get hurt. I think it makes Schiano look bad because even some of his players said they didn't want to do it.

[Z-RO]

I'm interested in eveyrone's take on this.

I think it's a chicken S play. Someone is going to get hurt. I think it makes Schiano look bad because even some of his players said they didn't want to do it.

They always say play until the final whistle, and if you look over the past few years his team at Rutgers recovered 4 fumbles this way. It it was a 1 possession game (with a reasonable amount of time left to actually try to score), and I thought I could win by doing so I would do it too.

[Matthew328]

its a one score game, when Schiano was at Rutgers he apparently has caused fumbles with it....if its a one score game I got no issue with it

[Macarthur]

I think it's a chicken S play.

There is a rule on punts and FGs that you can not have 3 defenders gang up on the deep snapper and knock the hell out of him so as to disrupt the snap. Same concept. This is an incredibly dangerous play.

And I think the play all 60 minutes argument is disenginuous especially given how poorly the Bucs offensive coordinator called the game. So you're okay with calling running play after running play when it clearly wasn't working, but dog gone it, we should knock the hell out of the center to try and get the ball back.

I don't care how many fumbles it caused in college. This isn't college and it's going to get someone hurt needlessly.

[Matthew328]

I think it's a chicken S play.

There is a rule on punts and FGs that you can not have 3 defenders gang up on the deep snapper and knock the hell out of him so as to disrupt the snap. Same concept. This is an incredibly dangerous play.

And I think the play all 60 minutes argument is disenginuous especially given how poorly the Bucs offensive coordinator called the game. So you're okay with calling running play after running play when it clearly wasn't working, but dog gone it, we should knock the hell out of the center to try and get the ball back.

I don't care how many fumbles it caused in college. This isn't college and it's going to get someone hurt needlessly.

The rule is on punts and FGs, so the play is within the rules...so your premise on this argument is the offense has the right to tell the defense not to play? So because the offense decides the game is over the defense is supposed to simply not try anymore?? If the offense ran a dive play does Tampa have a right not to strip the ball??

Yes its not college, but who's to say it won't happen? What if Tampa had caused a fumble there? What would we all be saying? Miracle play! Blah Blah

There's no gray area here, its either right or its wrong. The play is legal and within the rules...the NFL has said so. If they feel the play should be outlawed there's no question they'll outlaw it but as of right now I say go for it.

[coachc45]

I think it's a chicken S play.

There is a rule on punts and FGs that you can not have 3 defenders gang up on the deep snapper and knock the hell out of him so as to disrupt the snap. Same concept. This is an incredibly dangerous play.

And I think the play all 60 minutes argument is disenginuous especially given how poorly the Bucs offensive coordinator called the game. So you're okay with calling running play after running play when it clearly wasn't working, but dog gone it, we should knock the hell out of the center to try and get the ball back.

I don't care how many fumbles it caused in college. This isn't college and it's going to get someone hurt needlessly.

The rule on punts and fg's is only because the snapper has his head between his legs and can't defend himself...... the center can see it coming.

Let me ask this? What would you do if on a regular play they line up three people over the center and 'A' gap? let me answer that for you.... You'd block them.

This happens on every short yardage play.... like QB sneak. No one says a word. Treat the kneel down the same way.

[outlaw]

That's exactly what the Cowboys are lacking, is a "hit em in their mouth" coach like Schiano.

[Buff42]

IMO, there should be a rule that if a team does the "Victory Formation" and takes a knee, then the clock should continue to run. Same principle as the shot clock in basketball. Teams should have to try to advance the ball on every play.

The game is 60 minutes long, you paid for 60 minutes of being a fan, and the players train for a 60 minute game. Play the whole game.

But, with that said, I do agree that Schiano could get someone hurt. So could a TV camera on the sidelines. It's an inherently dangerous game played by people who like that kind of stuff.

[Bullaholic]

I think the NFL rule needs to be changed to disallow tackling a player who is kneeling the ball and whose knee has touched. He will be considered down when he is touched---not tackled--- by an opposing player. This one would be an official's call on the knee. If the kneeling player makes any football related moves, or appears to lose possession of the ball, then he is fair game.

[Matthew328]

The player who was taking a knee wasn't tackled...

[Macarthur]

The rule on punts and fg's is only because the snapper has his head between his legs and can't defend himself...... the center can see it coming.

The fact that he can see 3 guys barreling down on him doesn't make it okay then. And most long snappers snap the ball with their heads up. The theory is the same; you could load up to disrupt the snap. It was outlawed on deep snappers because it could get guys hurt. Same thing here.



Let me ask this? What would you do if on a regular play they line up three people over the center and 'A' gap? let me answer that for you.... You'd block them.

It's a different play. On this you have 3 guys all aiming for the center.


This happens on every short yardage play.... like QB sneak. No one says a word. Treat the kneel down the same way.

Not the same. On a short yardage play the defense has to account for a RB, QB, WR, TE, etc. On this play the only intent of the defense is to get as many guys as possible to knock the crap out of the center.

It's a senseless play that could only work once in a blue moon and the odds for someone getting seriously hurt are much higher than you getting the ball.

I think the 'play for 60 minutes' arguement is a joke. They had 59 minutes and 30 seconds to win the game. Now that you've lost, you're going to act like a punk? And by the way, it's being reported that TB's players were not comfortable with this. His own DL were telling him they didn't want to do this.

And I would be willing to bet everything I own that the league does do something about this. It serves no purpose and the risk of injury is incredibly high.

[1st and goal]

I will laugh if the next time the Buc's do this, the QB hands the ball off to someone speedy who runs around the end and scores. Especially if the score is already a 2 score difference.

Mac, you're right, someone's gonna get hurt for no good reason.

[Z's daddy]

I think the NFL rule needs to be changed to disallow tackling a player who is kneeling the ball and whose knee has touched. He will be considered down when he is touched---not tackled--- by an opposing player. This one would be an official's call on the knee. If the kneeling player makes any football related moves, or appears to lose possession of the ball, then he is fair game.

They already have this rule. When a player takes a knee or slides feet first, then they are "giving themselves up" and are considered down. If you hit them with malicious intent, then it is a 15 yard personal foul.

I have no problem with the defense trying to cause a fumbled snap in a one score game. If you are on offense and you see them lined up like that, then you should know they are coming. My advice is to be up by more than one score. Or snap it out of the gun and then take a knee. With the snap out of the gun you lessen the likelihood of a fumbled snap exchange. You just better hope that your center doesn't get the yips and snap it over the QB's head. Then again, you have the safety 10 yards behind the QB.

[Tejastrue]

The victory formation should not be allowed if the opposing team is within reach to tie or win with their next possession. Make them play it out.

[Macarthur]

The victory formation should not be allowed if the opposing team is within reach to tie or win with their next possession. Make them play it out.

So you're actually punishing the team that has played well enough to be ahead and giving the advantage to the team that has not played well enough to be ahead?

[Tejastrue]

So you're actually punishing the team that has played well enough to be ahead and giving the advantage to the team that has not played well enough to be ahead?

Not sure you can say that the team that has no more than an 8 point lead has played that much better.

[Macarthur]

well, theyre winning.

[Phil C]

I personally dislike plays that could injure someone. Winning is important but safety should always be of utmost importance.

I also dislike taking advantage of an opponent who is obviously hurt and groggy. I have seen many teams take advantage of a DB who they see in that situation and that to me is a relection on the coach. For example in the 1972 Cotton Bowl it was a very tight game and PSU and the announcers saw one of the UT players was groggy after a hit and they went right after him with a 67 yard pass for a td that broke the game open. How unlike UT and Vince Young when they had that chance agains Michigan in the 2005 Rose Bowl and even the announcers said it was coming. But Vince scored a td by a run on the opposite side which surprised the announcers. Coach Joe Paterno showed no pity. It turned out 40 years later a country was to have no pity for the man who had none.

[oldtownag]

I personally dislike plays that could injure someone. Winning is important but safety should always be of utmost importance.

I also dislike taking advantage of an opponent who is obviously hurt and groggy. I have seen many teams take advantage of a DB who they see in that situation and that to me is a relection on the coach. For example in the 1972 Cotton Bowl it was a very tight game and PSU and the announcers saw one of the UT players was groggy after a hit and they went right after him with a 67 yard pass for a td that broke the game open. How unlike UT and Vince Young when they had that chance agains Michigan in the 2005 Rose Bowl and even the announcers said it was coming. But Vince scored a td by a run on the opposite side which surprised the announcers. Coach Joe Paterno showed no pity. It turned out 40 years later a country was to have no pity for the man who had none.

So what you are really saying is that if something bad happens to Texas its not fair? And Texas always plays fair?

[Phil C]

So what you are really saying is that if something bad happens to Texas its not fair? And Texas always plays fair?

Bingo! WTG oldtownag! That wasn't my main point but great insight! I am astonished!

[Z-RO]

So you're actually punishing the team that has played well enough to be ahead and giving the advantage to the team that has not played well enough to be ahead?

Obviously they have not played well enough if a potential fumble at the end of the game could cost them the game.

[Saggy Aggie]

Bingo! WTG oldtownag! That wasn't my main point but great insight! I am astonished!

Lmao. Way to go Phil. I love it

[Z-RO]

I personally dislike plays that could injure someone. Winning is important but safety should always be of utmost importance.

I also dislike taking advantage of an opponent who is obviously hurt and groggy. I have seen many teams take advantage of a DB who they see in that situation and that to me is a relection on the coach. For example in the 1972 Cotton Bowl it was a very tight game and PSU and the announcers saw one of the UT players was groggy after a hit and they went right after him with a 67 yard pass for a td that broke the game open. How unlike UT and Vince Young when they had that chance agains Michigan in the 2005 Rose Bowl and even the announcers said it was coming. But Vince scored a td by a run on the opposite side which surprised the announcers. Coach Joe Paterno showed no pity. It turned out 40 years later a country was to have no pity for the man who had none.

I am a horns fan, and tend to agree with you on a lot of stuff....but this made me facepalm

[oldtownag]

Bingo! WTG oldtownag! That wasn't my main point but great insight! I am astonished!

Getting to the bottom line is how I roll.

[BwdLion73]

Fake the kneel down toss a little swing pass and laugh as you trot the last twenty yards....give the ball to your coach and let him give it to their coach at mid field when time runs out.

[Old Tiger]

I think the NFL has already ruined the integrity of the game with all the rules they have and will continue to implicate.

[FB-fanatic]

Fake the kneel down toss a little swing pass and laugh as you trot the last twenty yards....give the ball to your coach and let him give it to their coach at mid field when time runs out.

I had a similar vision. Line up 2 guys 1 foot from the sideline facing the coach.... HUT!

Part of me felt he had to save face for the week pryor and show everyone that was going to be routine. My bet it will be gone in two weeks.

[bigwood33]

You just spread them out and strike them. If he wants to play it that way, you make him pay. If he still puts 3 guys on the center and just flat blows him up and possibly injures him, then you start blowing up his team. He'll get the hint.

[Emerson1]

Shotgun. There you go, cancels out any reason for the other team to try and do it.

[Z-RO]

Shotgun. There you go, cancels out any reason for the other team to try and do it.

http://hotdogprofits.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/winner-winner-chicken-dinner1.png

[Bullaholic]

The victory formation should not be allowed if the opposing team is within reach to tie or win with their next possession. Make them play it out.

I agree, this is the best solution.

[Bullaholic]

They already have this rule. When a player takes a knee or slides feet first, then they are "giving themselves up" and are considered down. If you hit them with malicious intent, then it is a 15 yard personal foul.

I have no problem with the defense trying to cause a fumbled snap in a one score game. If you are on offense and you see them lined up like that, then you should know they are coming. My advice is to be up by more than one score. Or snap it out of the gun and then take a knee. With the snap out of the gun you lessen the likelihood of a fumbled snap exchange. You just better hope that your center doesn't get the yips and snap it over the QB's head. Then again, you have the safety 10 yards behind the QB.

The current rules cover this generally, but the verbage is not specific enough to cover the victory formation. Have you ever seen a flag thrown under the current rules for hitting the QB in the victory formation?

[BLACK&GOLD4LIFE]

Do y'all remember when the two brothers from columbus did it in 09? I believe it was against la grange when one of the linebackers took off on a full sprint and knocked the F*** out of the center for La Grange on a QB knee and was immediately ejected from the game and on the next play his brother did the exact same thing

[raider red 2000]

what do you do when the losing team lines up in voctory formation?
- double penalty????
i have seen it happen.

[pancho villa]

once again I am reading what a non-football person like macarthur has to say on here. It is not bad play by Tampa Bay that is the problem, have the guards fire off the ball (and drive the DT's) in the victory formation and that will take care of that. Macarthur why don't you suggest they hit each other with their purse in the NFL!

[Macarthur]

once again I am reading what a non-football person like macarthur has to say on here. It is not bad play by Tampa Bay that is the problem, have the guards fire off the ball (and drive the DT's) in the victory formation and that will take care of that. Macarthur why don't you suggest they hit each other with their purse in the NFL!

You sir are a joke.

You know nothing about me. You've made two very personal statements that couldn't be further from the truth. You are acting like a jackass.

[pancho villa]

I can only judge you by what you post on here.
1. don't let football be to aggressive.
2. don't paddle my kids.

[Farmersfan]

As long as both teams know the play will continue I don't have a problem with it. Since the NFL teams normally don't act like this then it is a Chicken S play to hit them like this unexpectedly on a Victory kneel down. On the other hand the Cowboys were expecting it so it certainly wasn't a Chicken S play. As long as both teams are expecting play to continue then what the hell is the problem?

[kaorder1999]

simple fix...put in your punter on Victory and back him up to 7 (kicking formation) and have the punter take a knee..they then cant hit the center!

[coachc45]

As long as both teams know the play will continue I don't have a problem with it. Since the NFL teams normally don't act like this then it is a Chicken S play to hit them like this unexpectedly on a Victory kneel down. On the other hand the Cowboys were expecting it so it certainly wasn't a Chicken S play. As long as both teams are expecting play to continue then what the hell is the problem?

I agree. It was "possibly" cheap in week one....since then it is known it is coming, so prepare accordingly.

[Z's daddy]

The current rules cover this generally, but the verbage is not specific enough to cover the victory formation. Have you ever seen a flag thrown under the current rules for hitting the QB in the victory formation?

It does not happen often, but I do recall a few years ago (don't remember who was playing) but a kneel down at the end of an emotional game was greeted with an LB flying over the top trying to get to the QB. He was hit with a personal foul and the coach took him of the field for the last 2 plays.

[Macarthur]

As long as both teams know the play will continue I don't have a problem with it. Since the NFL teams normally don't act like this then it is a Chicken S play to hit them like this unexpectedly on a Victory kneel down. On the other hand the Cowboys were expecting it so it certainly wasn't a Chicken S play. As long as both teams are expecting play to continue then what the hell is the problem?

I think it's bush league.

[Bullaholic]

i think somebody must have given pancho a wedgie while he was wearing his spandex and he doesn't know whether to cry or smile and walk proud....:D

[Farmersfan]

I think it's bush league.



What makes it bush league? Tradiition? Ethics? do you believe that because it generally isn't done in the past then it shouldn't be done in the future? I think the intent determines whether it's bush league or not. If they are hitting the other players because they want to hurt them then it is Bush league. But if they are simply trying to take away the ball then they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Not sure why the purpose of the game should be altered because one team wants to end the game early.

[Macarthur]

What makes it bush league? Tradiition? Ethics? do you believe that because it generally isn't done in the past then it shouldn't be done in the future? I think the intent determines whether it's bush league or not. If they are hitting the other players because they want to hurt them then it is Bush league. But if they are simply trying to take away the ball then they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. Not sure why the purpose of the game should be altered because one team wants to end the game early.

I've given multiple reasons on the first page of the thread.

[pancho villa]

I've given multiple reasons on the first page of the thread.

Macarthur knows bush league

[raider red 2000]

i have heard of an unwritten rule, where O-linemen will not block low on D-linemen durring the regular season, but in the post season legs are fair game. They brother in law each other a little. The teams I guess should be smart enough to figure it out that if the Bucs want to break one unwritten rule, then they can be blocked low. The D-linemen will figure it out and pass that info to their head coach. New rules are not needed.

And Pancho is the man.

[Farmersfan]

I've given multiple reasons on the first page of the thread.




On every single play there are 11 guys on the defense who's only job is to knock the crap out of whichever player has the ball. Is that "bush league"? Using your logic maybe we should be expecting the defense to only tackle the runner on a 1 on 1 basis and not gang tackle! And calling this "Bush league" when the bush leagues of the sport don't practice it either is bit odd. It's an unspoken rule for sure and to do it when the other team is expecting you to obey the unspoken rule is certainly chicken S. But once the other team understands you aren't going to simply lay down and accept your defeat until the last whistle blows then it's nothing more just another play. If the offense decides to kneel down to run out the clock that a decision they make for themselves. I don't see how they should be respected in that decision by the opponent........ Especially in the NFL when it's a business and players are paid MILLIONS to win the game. If you look at it from merely a logical perspective if the defense gives up and accepts the defeat with a couple of plays left in the game then they are not giving 100% to the fans or their employer and therefore are not earning their salaries. In high school and college it's a little different because the game is played from a completely different perspective........
Just my thoughts on the matter. But i do respect your opinion and your right to have it. Take care.

[Buff42]

PANCHO IS DA MAN! No doubt.

Mac should move to California in his Prius and eat kale. Jk Mac, don't get your frillies in a knot.